I've never seen Andromeda, but your description makes it sounds interesting. I tend to enjoy the generally more optimistic sci-fi from that time period. I did watch Earth Final Conflict, and I agree that the first season was good, but it went downhill after that. Regarding SeaQuest, season 1 is indeed the best one, but I think the other two seasons are worth watching. When I rewatched the series as an adult, I thought the third season in particular was better than I remembered. I won't be watching the last season of Discovery, but I'm looking forward to your reviews ripping it apart. Best wishes on getting to 1,000 subscribers!
When watch Andromeda, remember that Dylan Hunt is a good guy, but the actor who plays him is a right wing weirdo. Then real Dylan Hunt likes working with different species, and Kevin Sorbo won't even work with different humans.
Genesis II was supposed to be a pilot for a series. In fact it had two sequels, both wretched: Strange New World and Planet Earth, cobbled together from scripts for episodes of the never launched series.
I'm subscribed for a while and like your discussions. As you know I don't always agree, but that is how life works. I cant really help you getting higher numbers, only thing I can say is that I like discussing and looking at shows and movies and discussing their themes. So maybe you can expand your offering by looking into other shows or maybe even movies. I get that Star Trek drives a lot of traffic, that's why Kurzman did the show in the first place, but maybe shows like Dark Matter, Lost in space could be interesting to look into, even if they are not great. Hope you get your goal, good luck.
The problem is that we have to find new stuff that we actually like. Secret Hideout Trek is so bad that we need to find positive things to talk about to help keep us sane. And right now we struggle to find contemporary stuff that we like. -- Old Man
@@mollieandtheoldman The Queens Gambit, Arcane, Andor, Killing Eve. If you mean just scifi then I'm sorry can only recommend the Expanse atm there is nothing really worth it otherwise imho. I'm back watching West Wing, thats how bad things are
The real weakness in the show is to not capitalize on the civil war plot they worked up to. By necessity of the series runtime some of the re-building of the Commonwealth happens offscreen. So in effect Hunt needed to rally the troops all over again going from planet to planet seeking allies. Instead, the Andromeda and him only became fugitives with no meaningful support base. All the while there is an impending invasion. Battle lines of allegiances should have started being drawn and instead the Andromeda lone-wolfed it. Too bad.
I remember this show. I stopped somewhere in early season 3. I'm pretty sure I didn't even make it tot he half way point. Which makes sense as we had good series on at the time. And I had little time to dedicate toa tv series.
That's how I was too. As I said in the video, I thought it was "okay" at the time of original airing but there were lots of other things on that already had my interest -- Old Man
Ah good old Andromeda. I'm old enough to have watched this when it aired, at least the first couple of seasons. Streamed the rest years later. It's a show I really liked at the time, but if I'd watch it today, I'd probably be cringing at a lot of stuff. It definitely didn't age well in some regards, especially CGI, costumes, sets and that kind of stuff. But it's not horrible either, and especially enjoyable if you like a certain amount of cheese. It had quirky and mostly likeable characters that FELT like they were part of an ensemble show. Pretty much all of them had arcs throughout the show and grew. As opposed to Star Trek Discovery, lol. It was definitely a show that went through multiple identities and its quality was inconsistent, ending with the pretty terrible season 5. In some ways its a bit of a relic from an age of transition between episodic and serialized. Some of the longer plots ended up being nonsensical but on the other hand some standalone episodes were really fun. Always hated the fact that they got rid of Tyr, though.
I always thought it was funny that Lisa Ryder (Beka Valentine) a Human and Lexa Doig (Andromeda/Romy) an AI/android were both in Jason X but Lexa was human and Lisa was an Android.
I watched some Andromeda when it first aired. I liked what I saw, but I was not watching much television at the time. In the mid-to -late 1990s I needed to escape most all of what was on. I liked what I saw of the early part of Andromeda . If a show's premise, stories, and characters are interesting enough I can forgive lower budget special effects and costumes. (Mollie, your,"... Apple store.", comment made me laugh. 😀) Very good recap and review, Mollie and the Old Man. I am a happy subscriber.
The trouble with ANDROMEDA, that I had, was the fact that Gene Roddenberry's optimistic views are torn away and though it did manage to last five years the new producers just refused get to the point as the ship went on meaningless voyages and was more interested in focusing on the superstrong androids looking like sex bombs and having no interest in developing the series or the characters.
Yeah, I think the divergence from the original mission of rebuilding the Commonwealth was the death of the show. The power struggle for control of the show trashed the story the original showrunner set out to tell. It's a shame that so many shows are destroyed by suits adding sex and violence in order to make the shows 'more marketable'. -Mollie :(
Like you guys, I really enjoyed the first two seasons of Andromeda. Without the internet back then, I had no knowledge of what went on behind the scenes, but I remember thinking "What the fk is this sht?" at the beginning of season 3. I saw some episodes of season 3 and 4, but honestly didn't enjoy it like before. Firefly was great, but maybe an unpopular opinion here, as great as the show was, the film was so much bigger and better and without that, I possibly wouldn't hold the show in such high esteem without it. Dark Angel was really cool and had such an unusual atmosphere that I haven't felt with any other show. I had the first season of Earth Final Conflict on DVD, and I liked it, but couldn't find the rest. Also, I can confirm the first season of SeaQuest was cool, but I can't speak about the others having not seen them. I look forward to hearing you tear Discovery Season 5 apart. Thanks for the video on this old classic...! 👍🏻
I find that a lot of people either love Firefly or hate it. It seems that it is a polarizing franchise. I'm glad that they got the film to try to close up the threads that they started in season 1. But, as I point out to people who wished for a season 2 - does one REALLY want that? seaQuest DSV, EFC, Andromeda (starting w/ season 3) - it seems like if we waited long enough, stuff turned to crap. Why would we think Firefly wouldn't have done the same? We just finished season 1 of Dark Angel. Rumor has it that season 2 went a bit iffy but we can't seem to find consistent opinions for that. I guess we'll find out when we watch it. It seems like we are on the same wavelength on a lot of things. This should be a fun ride going into Discovery -- Old Man
The costumes in Farscape were great, but the stories were a too cheesy for me. I quite liked Dark Matter, despite the bump they had when a core cast member left, but the aspect of corporations in space competing in tech and the aliens... well it reminds me of a beta version of The Expanse. Madigans Quest was a fun fantasy sci-fi series that came after the Xena TV era but less fantasy (although it starred Michael Hurst from Hercules). I enjoyed Eureka! as well, which was for younger audiences (and featured Max Headroom AKA Matt Brewer Andromeda passed me by, I tried to get into it when repeats were on, but I think it was season 2 and the characters did seem cheesy and the acting wasn't the best. The concept seems sound, too bad we don't get an attempt to improve on the flaws of these cancelled shows and get 5 seasons of Discovery. Burnham doesn't even have an intrinsic understanding of Vulcan culture. Earth Final Conflict was alright but I gave up after season 2 I think. I have been thinking about going back and watching Space: 1999, Dark Angel is an interesting suggestion, but the guy is in a wheel-chair so he must be a villain 😉
We enjoyed Eureka too until they did that "reset" E:FC got really really really bad. For me, I instantly hated it at the first episode of season 2. I despise the Liam Kincaid character. But season 1 is one of my favorite things of that era. The concepts introduced in season 1 were thought provoking even if some of the production standards were a tad iffy. IMO, it's a completely different show than season 2 and beyond. -- Old Man
I'm a little sensitive to the criticism of Discovery because a lot of the people criticized Discovery and they loved STP3. And there's this really odd moment when you think, am I in the right place? Am I just being surrounded by racists? Are people liking things just because the people on the screen look like them without even realizing it? So I'm going to try to give it a chance. It probably doesn't deserve it, but I think we should all try to give it a chance. We all should hope that it succeeds and reforms. And that the characters act professionally. And people stop crying or laughing at the drop of a hat. That we won't have episodes with Burnham and Book as a couple like some soap opera. Or Saru and the Vulcan ambassador like a soap opera. That they remove the flamethrowers on the bridge. The Burnham as captain no longer has to play mutineer.
In general everyone has the freedom to like and dislike whatever they want. Having said that, we can do a distinction between analysis, or analytical criticism and more traditional review. The later I would classify as the like or dislike category. I can like a thing and still think its done poorly or not reaching its potential. The main issue with all NuTrek is not that its diverse or uses different people that look different, I never cared about that. The issue of it is that its bad writing. Even looking at it on its own, without the wider Star Trek context, its inconsistent. So for me I look at it and see the huge amount of money that was wasted in producing a Show using the Sci-Fi genre to say nothing, inspire no one and that is sad, as its a waste of money and time. The Expanse has a very diverse cast and even if it has a glooming end of world theme, its still hopeful, it still is inspirational and still looks at human tropes to showcase social aspects that are still current. But it does it in a way that is not insulting to the audience. Rodenberry was a dreamer, he wanted to inspire people to change and see past the petty human things, but neither of the NuTrek shows even tried to follow suit, mostly because the people writing and producing these shows don't understand that, they thing Star Trek is Star Wars and all it needs is blue people in space and there is where they are wrong, they don't get it.
A series should be making you fall in love with it and not merely hope it gets better. I'm watching Pretender now with my family; a show I wasn't allowed to watch as a kid and that was probably good (though it is light watching for adults). But I had glimpsed a little of it and was expecting irremediable villains, and the show has gone on to make me care about them. I didn't hope that I would come to like them. The show did the work to make me care.
@@KetraarWell i don't think that is it really. I mean they got the Vulcans and Earth in the Federation. They made friends with Ten-C: the alien race that was their antagonist. They stopped the burn by teaching a child courage. Saru freed himself from his fear. They had episode about a trans couple. All of this inspires all the people who like these characters. And it is hopeful at least at the end of the series. I think it's more in the actual mechanics of each episode and the dialogue and the acting. When Tilly speaks I throw up. When Burnham starts to cry I also get sick. It is all written as a kind of repulsive melodrama. But don't quote me because I don't quite remember it all, and I could be wrong. It seems to be her criticism is more apt toward the first season which had a lot of ridiculous Klingons and mirror universe people and Spock had ADHD.
@@valueofnothing2487 Sure there might be glimpses of inspiration in anything, even if just just a lesson on how not to do things. But the issue is that the writing is so inconsistently bad, that it takes me out ruining any suspension of disbelief. The main crew is so badly written it feels like a kids cartoon show. Acting is not great indeed, but the main main gripe is with the fact that characters say one thing then do the exact opposite and in 10min the show has forgotten about it. This can only be indicative of writers that think their audience is stupid or worse they are unaware of it, which makes them even worse writers. Not to speak of the fact that they keep breaking established world rules that are essential to Star Trek and its themes, this is due to the fact that they use the brand Star Trek but they are not really writing Star Trek, they are writing their stories in their world and then slap the label on in to driver viewers, because otherwise no one would watch it. With the Star Trek label they know that even if they suck, hate watch is a thing so all is good.
You guys do Andromeda also, Awesome, Love your work keep it up
I've never seen Andromeda, but your description makes it sounds interesting. I tend to enjoy the generally more optimistic sci-fi from that time period. I did watch Earth Final Conflict, and I agree that the first season was good, but it went downhill after that. Regarding SeaQuest, season 1 is indeed the best one, but I think the other two seasons are worth watching. When I rewatched the series as an adult, I thought the third season in particular was better than I remembered.
I won't be watching the last season of Discovery, but I'm looking forward to your reviews ripping it apart. Best wishes on getting to 1,000 subscribers!
When watch Andromeda, remember that Dylan Hunt is a good guy, but the actor who plays him is a right wing weirdo. Then real Dylan Hunt likes working with different species, and Kevin Sorbo won't even work with different humans.
i live how the first time they talk about the captain someone says "he looked like some sort of greek demigod" xD
Genesis II was supposed to be a pilot for a series. In fact it had two sequels, both wretched: Strange New World and Planet Earth, cobbled together from scripts for episodes of the never launched series.
Wow talk about coincidence. I just finished rewatching Andromeda yesterday. The last season is a bit weird but I still liked it.
I'm subscribed for a while and like your discussions. As you know I don't always agree, but that is how life works. I cant really help you getting higher numbers, only thing I can say is that I like discussing and looking at shows and movies and discussing their themes. So maybe you can expand your offering by looking into other shows or maybe even movies. I get that Star Trek drives a lot of traffic, that's why Kurzman did the show in the first place, but maybe shows like Dark Matter, Lost in space could be interesting to look into, even if they are not great. Hope you get your goal, good luck.
The problem is that we have to find new stuff that we actually like. Secret Hideout Trek is so bad that we need to find positive things to talk about to help keep us sane. And right now we struggle to find contemporary stuff that we like. -- Old Man
@@mollieandtheoldman The Queens Gambit, Arcane, Andor, Killing Eve. If you mean just scifi then I'm sorry can only recommend the Expanse atm there is nothing really worth it otherwise imho. I'm back watching West Wing, thats how bad things are
The real weakness in the show is to not capitalize on the civil war plot they worked up to. By necessity of the series runtime some of the re-building of the Commonwealth happens offscreen. So in effect Hunt needed to rally the troops all over again going from planet to planet seeking allies. Instead, the Andromeda and him only became fugitives with no meaningful support base. All the while there is an impending invasion. Battle lines of allegiances should have started being drawn and instead the Andromeda lone-wolfed it. Too bad.
I remember this show. I stopped somewhere in early season 3. I'm pretty sure I didn't even make it tot he half way point. Which makes sense as we had good series on at the time. And I had little time to dedicate toa tv series.
That's how I was too. As I said in the video, I thought it was "okay" at the time of original airing but there were lots of other things on that already had my interest -- Old Man
@@mollieandtheoldman It's funny how a barren wasteland of no good sci fi series for a couple decades can make a show like this look a bit better.
Ah good old Andromeda. I'm old enough to have watched this when it aired, at least the first couple of seasons. Streamed the rest years later. It's a show I really liked at the time, but if I'd watch it today, I'd probably be cringing at a lot of stuff. It definitely didn't age well in some regards, especially CGI, costumes, sets and that kind of stuff. But it's not horrible either, and especially enjoyable if you like a certain amount of cheese. It had quirky and mostly likeable characters that FELT like they were part of an ensemble show. Pretty much all of them had arcs throughout the show and grew. As opposed to Star Trek Discovery, lol.
It was definitely a show that went through multiple identities and its quality was inconsistent, ending with the pretty terrible season 5. In some ways its a bit of a relic from an age of transition between episodic and serialized. Some of the longer plots ended up being nonsensical but on the other hand some standalone episodes were really fun. Always hated the fact that they got rid of Tyr, though.
I always thought it was funny that Lisa Ryder (Beka Valentine) a Human and Lexa Doig (Andromeda/Romy) an AI/android were both in Jason X but Lexa was human and Lisa was an Android.
I watched some Andromeda when it first aired. I liked what I saw, but I was not watching much television at the time. In the mid-to -late 1990s I needed to escape most all of what was on.
I liked what I saw of the early part of Andromeda .
If a show's premise, stories, and characters are interesting enough I can forgive lower budget special effects and costumes.
(Mollie, your,"... Apple store.", comment made me laugh. 😀)
Very good recap and review, Mollie and the Old Man.
I am a happy subscriber.
Subscribed!
Subbed to help wirg ad earnings seeing as I have to suffer them as well.
The trouble with ANDROMEDA, that I had, was the fact that Gene Roddenberry's optimistic views are torn away and though it did manage to last five years the new producers just refused get to the point as the ship went on meaningless voyages and was more interested in focusing on the superstrong androids looking like sex bombs and having no interest in developing the series or the characters.
Yeah, I think the divergence from the original mission of rebuilding the Commonwealth was the death of the show. The power struggle for control of the show trashed the story the original showrunner set out to tell. It's a shame that so many shows are destroyed by suits adding sex and violence in order to make the shows 'more marketable'. -Mollie :(
Like you guys, I really enjoyed the first two seasons of Andromeda.
Without the internet back then, I had no knowledge of what went on behind the scenes,
but I remember thinking "What the fk is this sht?" at the beginning of season 3.
I saw some episodes of season 3 and 4, but honestly didn't enjoy it like before.
Firefly was great, but maybe an unpopular opinion here, as great as the show was,
the film was so much bigger and better and without that,
I possibly wouldn't hold the show in such high esteem without it.
Dark Angel was really cool and had such an unusual atmosphere that I haven't felt with any other show.
I had the first season of Earth Final Conflict on DVD, and I liked it, but couldn't find the rest.
Also, I can confirm the first season of SeaQuest was cool, but I can't speak about the others having not seen them.
I look forward to hearing you tear Discovery Season 5 apart.
Thanks for the video on this old classic...! 👍🏻
I find that a lot of people either love Firefly or hate it. It seems that it is a polarizing franchise. I'm glad that they got the film to try to close up the threads that they started in season 1. But, as I point out to people who wished for a season 2 - does one REALLY want that? seaQuest DSV, EFC, Andromeda (starting w/ season 3) - it seems like if we waited long enough, stuff turned to crap. Why would we think Firefly wouldn't have done the same?
We just finished season 1 of Dark Angel. Rumor has it that season 2 went a bit iffy but we can't seem to find consistent opinions for that. I guess we'll find out when we watch it.
It seems like we are on the same wavelength on a lot of things. This should be a fun ride going into Discovery -- Old Man
I subscribed!
The costumes in Farscape were great, but the stories were a too cheesy for me. I quite liked Dark Matter, despite the bump they had when a core cast member left, but the aspect of corporations in space competing in tech and the aliens... well it reminds me of a beta version of The Expanse. Madigans Quest was a fun fantasy sci-fi series that came after the Xena TV era but less fantasy (although it starred Michael Hurst from Hercules). I enjoyed Eureka! as well, which was for younger audiences (and featured Max Headroom AKA Matt Brewer
Andromeda passed me by, I tried to get into it when repeats were on, but I think it was season 2 and the characters did seem cheesy and the acting wasn't the best. The concept seems sound, too bad we don't get an attempt to improve on the flaws of these cancelled shows and get 5 seasons of Discovery. Burnham doesn't even have an intrinsic understanding of Vulcan culture. Earth Final Conflict was alright but I gave up after season 2 I think. I have been thinking about going back and watching Space: 1999, Dark Angel is an interesting suggestion, but the guy is in a wheel-chair so he must be a villain 😉
We enjoyed Eureka too until they did that "reset"
E:FC got really really really bad. For me, I instantly hated it at the first episode of season 2. I despise the Liam Kincaid character. But season 1 is one of my favorite things of that era. The concepts introduced in season 1 were thought provoking even if some of the production standards were a tad iffy. IMO, it's a completely different show than season 2 and beyond. -- Old Man
Such a great show - until mid Season 2 when they completely gutted it.
Andromeda does have its issues but it was a lot better than Earth Final Conflict.
Also Andromeda is far superior to STD.
STD is a very low bar to start with. :P
Shave a woolie that rim
I'm a little sensitive to the criticism of Discovery because a lot of the people criticized Discovery and they loved STP3. And there's this really odd moment when you think, am I in the right place? Am I just being surrounded by racists? Are people liking things just because the people on the screen look like them without even realizing it?
So I'm going to try to give it a chance. It probably doesn't deserve it, but I think we should all try to give it a chance. We all should hope that it succeeds and reforms. And that the characters act professionally. And people stop crying or laughing at the drop of a hat. That we won't have episodes with Burnham and Book as a couple like some soap opera. Or Saru and the Vulcan ambassador like a soap opera. That they remove the flamethrowers on the bridge. The Burnham as captain no longer has to play mutineer.
🤣🤣🤣 LOL -Mollie
In general everyone has the freedom to like and dislike whatever they want. Having said that, we can do a distinction between analysis, or analytical criticism and more traditional review. The later I would classify as the like or dislike category. I can like a thing and still think its done poorly or not reaching its potential. The main issue with all NuTrek is not that its diverse or uses different people that look different, I never cared about that. The issue of it is that its bad writing. Even looking at it on its own, without the wider Star Trek context, its inconsistent.
So for me I look at it and see the huge amount of money that was wasted in producing a Show using the Sci-Fi genre to say nothing, inspire no one and that is sad, as its a waste of money and time. The Expanse has a very diverse cast and even if it has a glooming end of world theme, its still hopeful, it still is inspirational and still looks at human tropes to showcase social aspects that are still current. But it does it in a way that is not insulting to the audience.
Rodenberry was a dreamer, he wanted to inspire people to change and see past the petty human things, but neither of the NuTrek shows even tried to follow suit, mostly because the people writing and producing these shows don't understand that, they thing Star Trek is Star Wars and all it needs is blue people in space and there is where they are wrong, they don't get it.
A series should be making you fall in love with it and not merely hope it gets better. I'm watching Pretender now with my family; a show I wasn't allowed to watch as a kid and that was probably good (though it is light watching for adults). But I had glimpsed a little of it and was expecting irremediable villains, and the show has gone on to make me care about them. I didn't hope that I would come to like them. The show did the work to make me care.
@@KetraarWell i don't think that is it really. I mean they got the Vulcans and Earth in the Federation. They made friends with Ten-C: the alien race that was their antagonist. They stopped the burn by teaching a child courage. Saru freed himself from his fear. They had episode about a trans couple.
All of this inspires all the people who like these characters. And it is hopeful at least at the end of the series.
I think it's more in the actual mechanics of each episode and the dialogue and the acting. When Tilly speaks I throw up. When Burnham starts to cry I also get sick. It is all written as a kind of repulsive melodrama.
But don't quote me because I don't quite remember it all, and I could be wrong.
It seems to be her criticism is more apt toward the first season which had a lot of ridiculous Klingons and mirror universe people and Spock had ADHD.
@@valueofnothing2487 Sure there might be glimpses of inspiration in anything, even if just just a lesson on how not to do things. But the issue is that the writing is so inconsistently bad, that it takes me out ruining any suspension of disbelief. The main crew is so badly written it feels like a kids cartoon show. Acting is not great indeed, but the main main gripe is with the fact that characters say one thing then do the exact opposite and in 10min the show has forgotten about it. This can only be indicative of writers that think their audience is stupid or worse they are unaware of it, which makes them even worse writers.
Not to speak of the fact that they keep breaking established world rules that are essential to Star Trek and its themes, this is due to the fact that they use the brand Star Trek but they are not really writing Star Trek, they are writing their stories in their world and then slap the label on in to driver viewers, because otherwise no one would watch it. With the Star Trek label they know that even if they suck, hate watch is a thing so all is good.