Andromeda - Did it Suck?
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- Опубликовано: 21 фев 2019
- For a while now people have been asking me to talk about the sci-fi show Andromeda. I hope those people weren't counting on me praising it all that much though.
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Important question - will there be an audio book version of Paragon and will Rowan be the one narrating it?
The answer is yes to both of those questions :)
IT SUCK
That would be awesome!
@@RowanJColeman Can you check out Lexx the dark Zone
@@damiandorhoff719 please do not. ;)
What weird and tiny thing I really liked about Andromeda was the start of each episode which showed a fictional quote or poem from the Andromeda universe.
Honestly that is a great thing about Andromeda. That its quotes weren't just of real life figures or people, but also fictional ones.
The time period between now and when the show took place was about 2700 years IIRC. That is 2700 years of figures, events, entertainment, war, etc.
Too much science fiction, especially ones in the distant future, have a problem of everyone only quoting old quotes from real life. Battletech is a great example of this bad habit. Despite it taking place 1000 years in the future, people there seemed to mostly only look at 20th century history or earlier for quotes or tactics.
Andromeda was great because it understood just how much material for fictional quotes you could mine out of 2700 years of history.
Same.
I love that part as well
Don't they understand me being like this helps our earth as secretly this earth don't like me or human beings and Ai thinks all people are stupid 😂
Why? Because we eat it 😂
Say what you will about Andromeda, the first season still had one of the most kickass theme songs ever written.
Babylon 5's themes enters chat
Agreed. Thank you, Alex Lifeson!
@@ML-yn9yu Not even close to Andromeda.
Greatest show ever
Agreed........ and some moron in a suit had it changed.
4:24 I liked Harper, most of the time, especially when we got a chance to see him not just as comic relief but as actually being a blue collar genius.
Also, now I know where Firefly's "Shiny!" and Wash came from. Love finding these reverse Easter eggs.
@@5Gburnis there actually a link between Andromeda and Firefly?
I always will defend Andromeda. The later episodes weren't even that bad. I think the real time it fell off was Tyr leaving. Not midway through the 2nd season.
This show is what started my crush on Lexa Doig. She was (and still is) so hot.
Same here.
My wifu then Daniel Jackson knicked her. Lol
@Zerebrat Eightyseven
The new doctor that replaced Frasier and the daughter of General Landry
I wound up crushing on Laura Bertram. She seems to be super nice IRL as well.
@@mememaster147
I was a Lexa. But I still liked Laura as well.
Down to earth. Ever so nice during her interviews.
I believe now she is a teacher today.
I Can't believe how quickly time has come
@@alanmike6883 She worked as a teacher for several years but she's gone back into acting last year, reasonably successfully by the looks of it. You can look her up on Instagram @iamlaurabertram.
The show had SUCH potential. Better action than most shows of its era, it definitely could have been the militarized action version of star trek. The universe they set up - violent, anarchic, hostile - was a perfect vessel to explore military philosophy, political theory and the nature of man, how societies and governments rise or fall and prosper or dont (the closest I think they got were some throwaway references to Sun Tzu in the episode with the boy-king, forget the episode name, and then a rushed "its a democracy, yay!" ending.) The first season was acceptable, after the second season the whole show lost direction and just felt incoherent. Harper became the paint by numbers annoying childish computer-genius, Trances whole "Im a living star" thing was just...even for this show, there's a suspension of disbelief problem there. Dylan started off as a good character with a lot of potential, but lost the plot. Rommie and Tyr were the two best things about that show, the guy who played Tyr delivered all his lines with such gravity, you could tell he really got into the character.
Tyr was the reason to watch the show. How would he react? It was fun to watch him grow from a true mercenary to a loyal soldier, then they killed him off.
What a lot of people don't realize that it was a feel-good have fun show did everyone can sit there and root for the characters while eating their popcorn at home. Some of the same characters and writers or the same ones in Hercules the TV series which was they have fun for the hero show, and Zina Princess Warrior, the spin-off show up Hercules which was also I laid back feel good root for the hero show. All three of these series were never meant to be completely serious fight to the death blood and guts shows that apparently the guy who posted this video on RUclips wanted it to be. I'm sorry he misunderstood, cuz there was a lot of fun that went on with the characters.
it had so much potential too bad Kevin ruined it in the later seasons but getting a big ego.
One thing that I liked was the actual acceptance of light lag. The information would arrive at the speed of light, or they'd have to send a manned courier vessel.
@@ShiftyMcGoggles: "I love real-time." - Dylan, "Belly of the Beast"
I actually still like Andromeda. You're right on, like, 95% of the stuff you brought up. But still. There's some sort of charm to it I still appreciate.
That's how I feel about it. I can even tolerate season five, even knowing how much better it could have been.
True enough. The idea of it is very awesome but the budget obviously didn't do it any favours...
Yeah I still have a fondness for it. A few times it felt pretty special.
i ve just finished watching all 750 eps of Star Trek across 4 sereisTOS,TNG,DS9,VOY,ENT,STD and 13 movies, because this is from Roddenberry's old ideas i might watch to complete my Roddenberry sci-fi run.
It's the show that tried. And really, it did a decent enough job: no Star Trek, Babylon 5, or Stargate, but entertaining.
I remember when it came out it was one of the earlier efforts at full viral marketing with a website built around the show that was pretty much wikipedia before wikipedia. I'd lose myself for hours just reading all the background material they had. This show will always have a soft spot in my heart between the sexy Lexa Doig & adorable Laura Bertram.
EDIT: I do totally support a possible reboot though.
I'm actually friends with one of the cast, and between them and some other stuff Robert Hewett Wolfe himself wrote/said elsewhere, it is truly a shame that the show got derailed at the end of the second season. You and your viewers might find this interesting:
Basically Wolfe was fired because Kevin Sorbo didn't understand his story arc. It was too convoluted, and since Sorbo was the show, and a producer, they could't get rid of him, so Wolfe went. As the season was already written, they continued to tell Wolfe's story up through the end of season 2, which was always supposed to end as it did.
The story would have gotten much more complex after that. Basically over the course of the next season and a half, the cast would disperse. Harper, who would continue to take injuries and have more and more of himself replaced by machine parts would leave the ship and become king of the AIs, basically. Tyr would leverage that whole "Nietschian Messiah" thing (Which he himself didn't believe in) to unify all the prides and become the emperor of them all. Rev Bem was basically going to become Space Pope. Trance would eventually have been revealed to be (A) the living embodiment of a star and (B) a self-identified demon. Apparently all stars are demons. Go figure.
Anyway, as the show evolved, it wouldn't have been confined to a central location, nor done many 'planet of the week' episodes. Instead it would have jumped around to various concurrent storylines and locations in the universe. They also gradually grow to be more at odds with each other. Eventually, however, they end up reuniting (Along with their respective forces) to fight the great big evil (Which is *not* a hokey monster called "The Abyss.")
In essence, if all went according to plan, and if I understand it correctly, and if my memory is holding up right, the show was to end with the final huge battle resulting in Trance and some other renegade demons effectively collapsing the entire universe back to the big bang, then rewriting certain basic laws, then big-banging it again into a Much Better Universe For Everyone. Not sure what that means, but basically no death, no war, no disease, no hate, just everybody being swell for eternity.
Which may or may not have sucked, but it gets major points for originality, and you can't help but be impressed by the scope of it all, right?
Holy crap. I still think ending the reuniting the Commonwealth arc in season 2 is a mistake, but that original idea sounds so batshit it would have at least been more interesting.
While the above post accurately summarises it, if you (or any of the other viewers are interested) Robert Hewitt Wolfe wrote an entire dialogue between Harper and Trance detailing the arc, which you can read here: www.cyberspace5.net/
I know, right? You have to appreciate the audacity of a show where the demons turn out to be the good guys. Makes Babylon 5 seem like a family tiff.
Speaking of which: I think rebuilding the commonwealth was intended as a 'starter plot.' Kind of like how the Shadows don't turn up until 13 episodes into B5, don't *do* anything until the end of the season, and only really evolve as the focus in the 2nd season. Or how the Drakh Plague would have been cured early in the 2nd season of Crusade, had it not been cancelled. Or how the Blue Sun arc would have kicked in in, had Firefly run just a few more episodes, and that would have dominated the next couple seasons.
Sometimes that works, sometimes not. I don't have a lot of faith that Andromeda could have pulled it off, but it's super sad that we didn't get to see them try. At the very worst it would have been a beautiful mess.
Frankly it sounds more or less as messy as the last season.
Cosmic ASoIAF... I dig it.
Andromeda started well, the first two seasons were brilliant. But after that it got worse, season 3 was weak, 4 was bad 5 was just awful. I think it was when they lost the brilliant Tyr/Dylan dynamic, without that the show didn't work.
Oh damn. I'm on S1E6. I'll just pretend I didn't hear that. 😅
Out of all of the syfy space means of travel I love Andromeda's slipstream the best. It added a need for the 'human' element to fly the ship. No sending probes out, no YOU need to actually go there.
Important- there is a reason it failed -Kevin Sorbo took over as the lead producer when the second season started. He said the show was too smart and make it more like Star Trek. So the Neitian became Klingons, Sorbo became Kirk and all the long term plans for the series became toast. If you want to see what was the plan lookup/google “ *Andromeda Coda* ” after reading it, You will see they took a lot of what Wolfe was planning and you and see how it was mutated.
The changes included - Sorbo *always* being right and the ultimate hero in the mold of Captain Kirk (a character you may have heard of). Unlike in Trek, her believed this required focus on him and thus all other characters were negatively affected. To start, Dylan must be smarter and “righter” then everyone. This kills the series by strangling the drama. Anything that challenges that had to go.
Example and IMHO- Keith Cobb was a Soap Opera Star and a heart throb and that continued on Andromeda. That was made even more clear with his chemistry with Lisa Rider (Beka). This lead to script changes to correct the focus. He had to be threaten often and a lot more grunting and being barbaric and alway he has to be wrong. Is he talking about his people - he is wrong and Dylan knows them better. What about politics and cultures In this new era - nope Tyr knows nothing and Dylan got it all down. When Keith H Cobb complained about his character devolving in public, he was *allowed* to leave. From that time on every show started with a is this the evil Tyr moment. This continued until he agreed to come back to die in the show (it was said so he could end the contract and never work with Sorbo again.) When Tyr died, Did it mater that this was out of character, universe inconsistent and scene incompatible with the story logic - nope. Sorbo was happy.
He made many changes cause the actor thought he knew the fans so well. So the show had no over arcing story line (this is after DS9 and Babylon5, Stargate (all of them) and even Battlestar all showed how that works). It was dumbed down storylines ( even as the audience was expecting smarter stories). And it all had to be about him. And being Captain Kirk was not enough for Sorbo; in the end he even made himself a Space God and the most *powerful being in creation* !
This series should have been great and Sorbo ... Herc it down to suckville.
This is the correct review. You nailed it. One man's ego destroyed the entire show. An actor should never be the producer. Actors are people that pretend to be other people for a living. They don't know anything about anything.
So essentially, he already was the main character, but he also wanted to be the Mary Sue.
The Andromeda Ascendant is only thing I really remember from the show, this ship design was awesome.
Lexa Doig. I watched as long as I could.
So until the 5th season basically lol where she gets replaced with that other blonde chick
i liked the 'trinity' thing they had going with the AI. bummer they dropped it. she wasn't a magnet for me but i thought she was way better than Ledford.
@@cr-pol Still, she found a new home on Earth, at the SGC. Along with an ex astronaut & a Peacekeeper...
@@NemoConsequentae Don't forget the EMH.
Uff ♡
As a German, I watched this show ("synchronised") in my native language. The German voice actors absolutely elevated the quality of this otherwise generic sci-fi show. I really liked the focus on AI.
In Czech, I remember something similar. The dubbing was top notch; not just the voices themselves (especially Rommy and Harper, they became 100 % better; as in the video he says that Haper was insuffarable, he kinda was in English, but in Czech he was super cool), but the translations. There have been only three time where I was truly impressed with Czech translations, and that was Stargate, Andromeda, and Heroes of Might and Magic IV. Whoever did those, it was labor of love and it showed, hats off.
@@MrBusinessAsUsual I really liked Herper in english too.
This series was actually pretty experimental when it came out.
Da hat er Recht! He's right!
Interesting! I should try the German dubbed version with English subtitles...
"Unrealized potential" is the most accurate thing said about the show. A great overall story arc destroyed by senseless detours.
One point in favour of Andromeda though.
Tyr's performance was freaking brilliant.
That actor put everything into his role. Line delivery, voice projection, ingenue emoting, exaggerated movements and gestures. It was all so weirdly over the top and unique but still so earnestly and fearlessly delivered as to completely work dramatically.
There was zero ironic detachment. He delivered those terrible 2000s sci-fi network TV lines like he was doing Macbeth or Coriolanus!
And everybody else on set were of course just doing 'normal' network TV acting. Which through contrast just added to making Tyr such a goddamned delight to watch.
It was like he had walked off of the set of a Kevin Brannagh movie and onto a network TV studio by accident, but they'd kept rolling and just decided to include Marvel's LOKI on Criminal Minds from now on.
I agree. Keith Hamiliton Cobb did a superb job as Tyr.
I loved Keith Hamilton Cobb's performance, too! He had a lot of great scenes, especially in season 1.
Tyr was the best thing in the show, once they lost him it was never as good.
Agreed. Too bad the character shit the bed when he came back.
Dude Tyr was my favorite character. I Wonder if Keith was pissed at how they treated the character in later seasons - I know I was.
I wonder how much of the Neitzschean concept came from Gene Roddenberry - he seems to have had a flair for creating interesting societies - the Klingons, Romulans, Khan's Eugenic Wars Soldiers and the Neitzcheans. Pity the show did the idea little justice.
Massively interesting ideas but poor execution. Ideal for a reboot.
They would've been an exceptionally interesting race if the showrunners had been made to actually read "Thus Spoke Zarathustra". Using that as a Bible would've made them far more complex. Instead we got some weird Ayn Rand fanatics.
@@KingOfMadCows NONE of the Nietzschians came from Roddenberry. Apart from character names and the general idea of civilization having collapsed, nothing in the show really came from Roddenberry, it was all from RHW.
In fact, the Nietzschians weren't even in the original proposal for the show. Keith Cobb auditioned for the part of Hunt, and didn't get it. Once the show was in preproduction, they realized "You know we're all white, right? Call that Cobb guy back." Since he was a last-minute addition to the cast, he was allowed to come up with his own character from scratch, and most of the Nietzschian stuff was his own invention.
I dont think he created Klingons
I was In the room with Gene Roddenberry in 1984 when the following exchange happened between Gene and a local reporter...
Reporter: "Nietzsche once said that hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
Gene Roddenberry: "Nietzsche was full of crap!"
Mic drop!
P.S. Harlan Ellison R.I.P. on the rewritten script of 'City On The Edge Of Forever.
www.vox.com/culture/2018/6/29/17518928/harlan-ellison-star-trek-grudge-science-fiction-rip
The rumor I heard at the time was that Sorbo didn't want it to be too scientific - he wanted "pew, pew, pew, punch, kick..." without too many lines of technical dialogue. He had no faith in an intelligent audience. He didn't understand that sci fi fans like _science_ fiction. Personally, I think the problem is Kevin's intelligence, not his audience.
My fondest memory of "Andromeda" was the 4 hottest ladies in any galaxy.
That show was legit casted and guest casted with horribly attractive ppl.... like unreal attractive.
can't put regular people on TV, they'll ugly the show up.
Constable Dodo then again... it’s largely cast with Canadians... which tend to have Canadian Television and Film “ugly”, be American passable...
I agree.
Damn straight. Farscape and SG-1 had many fine ladies too.
LOL I was such a textbook lonely sci fi dork when these shows were on.
I think I only watched Lexx because Zev was so hot. Sad huh?
The time was rich for a Sci-Fi space series back then. Farscape, Andromeda, Stargate (all versions), Star Trek etc. Good times.
I was too young to appreciate Farscape and SG-1 at the time. I revisited them after they were cancelled, brilliant shows. So much fun.
@Richard Schiffman Yup, and Battlestar Galactica.
Serenity
@@ShiftNova can’t mention serenity without Firefly
farscape is under rated
I worked on the first season of this. Just a technician. Majel Roddenberry came to bless it. The show and episodes went through dozens of changes. We saw dozens of different color schemese for the ship as we filmed. There really wasn't a handle on what the show was doing. Later, the edict was that we never went on location. So everything had to happen in the parking lot. I think the show had good ideas, but it was never given the ability to make those ideas work.
It was better than anything except Stargate. DS9 was almost as good. Enterprise was up there too. All the other Treks sucked in comparison.
It’s great to hear from someone who worked on the show. Thank you. As a humble viewer, I felt that the first season had a budget that was worthy of an ambitious SF show. And the final episode of the first season is one of the most terrifying things I’ve ever seen - and I saw ‘Alien’ when it was first released! Later, the budget was slashed and that became glaringly apparent to anyone who was paying attention. The fact that Gene Roddenberry’s name was attached to it clearly didn’t impress the moneymen. Gene’s other post-mortem show ‘Earth: Final Conflict’, had a similar trajectory: a good first season followed by an embarrassing nosedive in quality later on.
Any show that lasts more than one season can hardly be called a failure.
That is by no means a mark of quality, however.
It absolutely can, for so many reasons. The ways productions are scheduled, shows designed and filmed, the way the greenlighting process factors in, contracts and other suchlike behind the scenes...
Getting more than one season is absolutely not always simply a set-in-stone mark of success.
The problem is that Andromeda's story was essentially cut short 1.5 - 2 seasons in, after they kicked out Robert Wolfe.
The story we saw past Season 2 wasn't the story it was supposed to have.
It was supposed to be an arc like Babylon 5.
So in that sense, sadly Andromeda was forced to fail 😢
especially for a Science fiction series. They last only 1 or 2 seasons typically. That's why Farscape for me is a success even though it lasted 4 seasons.
@@anthonylogiudice9215 I love that show too!
Andromeda gave us some great character prototypes which would come to fuller flower in later series. And despite its flaws, I enjoyed the series. Though the final season was rough.
It started off good, but got crap half way through season 2 when the writting team changed. A remake of this could be epic and I hope it happens sometime.
I agree. And the 5th season was simply a place holder to ensure they got 100 episodes in order to make it into syndication. It was a nice premise. Years later I discovered the Lost Fleet Series of books and Jack Campbell showed how to handle a warrior plucked from the past and thrown into an unstable future.
Deserves a remake, so much potential.
Yep. It was fantastic until the writing change. Then it threw out everything that was good and just made it Hercules in space. I liked Hercules. But Andromeda was a better series with Kevin Sorbo as the 1st among equals, rather than Kevin Sorbo and friends.
Agreed. It took a few episodes to get off the ground, then it got really good, then it just... dropped. It felt like the show runners didn't know what they wanted to do anymore and it really showed. Last season is even worse than that.
Word. I get tired of them remaking things that don't need it. (*cough* nuTrek *cough*) Find the brilliant but flawed (or handicapped) ideas out there and do them justice. I'd much prefer to see this on Netflix than Lost in Space.
there was a lot about Andromeda I did like but season 5.... that was just painful to watch... after the original show runner left someone was brought in to take his place and make EVERY episode about Dylan and having the other characters just be there...
Which was the goal of Producer Kevin Sorbo! Which proves a quote I once read "The price you have to pay for having what you want is having what you ONCE wanted."
the main production company, Fireworks, was closed down by Canwest in 2004 which lead to the show being cancelled in 2005 and probably the very limited budget they had to work with in season 5. They probably just didn't have the budget for CGI and FX anymore, so they just had the ship floating in space. And of course Lexi was pregnant which is why her character got the change, and limited role, it did.
I loathed season 5 initially, much worse than the previous 4, mainly as it has a totally different feel to it, however its a bit odd, if you kind of watch it as a series on its own, it kind of works better, to the point I actually quite like it now, but its not really Andromeda, I think the writers watched firefly and thought, hmm western in space.....As mentioned in the video, this is one sci-fi that needs a reboot, but not a dark reboot like they all seem to be doing, but more lighter feel.
Short answer: Andromeda started out quite well, then totally went off the rails with completely stupid metaphysical crap!
Tyr was brilliant. The character, the acting, the dialogue, everything. When I heard they he was dropped in season 4 I dropped the show.
Yeah, he was like Andromeda's Worf and he was the most compelling thing about the show.
I dont think he was dropped, he went to Young& the Restless.
He left... But still
I don't remember where I read it, but I read that he got Tyrd of all the female attention.
What the hell did you expect, walking around in a chainmail undershirt most of the time?
Andromeda: A giant ball of squandered potential.
I never realized how much the Orville is reminiscent of the design of the Andromeda. And the show also has a character from a high-gravity planet.
The show seems childish and campy now, but at the time it was much like the other shows on at the time. It can be hard to even re-watch an episode of ST:TNG. Although it never felt like it ever really lived up to it's potential.
But have you seen my Forcelance? stun rifle, grappling hook, counter mortar battery, tazer, staff weapon....
personal portable shield generator too... and attack staff.
I actually kind of like Andromeda.
I watch it all the time on Comet TV.
Me too
Same here, I watch it on Amazon Prime.
Same, I don't love it, but I have fun watching it.
Come on, don't hold back, how do you really feel about Kevin Sorbo?🤣
It could have been worse! He was up for the part of Superman in "Lois & Clark" before he was cast as Hercules.
That would have expanded his ego to have been on a Big 3 Network fantasy show before Andromeda!
He's so dreamy.
I love Kevin Sorbo. Is it camp? Absolutely. Camp and fabulous.
🤮
@@lokitus So is a nightmare.
I'm disappointed you didn't show the scene of Trance cartwheeling through the halls and yipping while dodging the ship's security system. That scene always makes me laugh.
Watch thebloopers where her tail gets caught on a ladder. 😂😂
yeehaw!
@@jazzlover10000: Heehaw*
🤣🤣🤣🤣
I love Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda. The Story, The Ship, The Effects, The Cast and so much more. I'm even watching it on DVD again right now and honestly, Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda is also a series that you can watch all the time. So in my opinion it belongs on the 5th place of my favorites under the theme series
I'm not usually one for reboots, but the premise of this show really has potential. I would love to see it fully realized.
Yes. I could handle a reboot of this one just fine.
I actually liked Harper best. I think some of the issue was the inconsistent writing of the character, not necessarily the acting. Same thing that happened on Stargate Atlantis, McKay wobbled between a) annoying and butt of the joke and b) layered and complex, depending on whether the writer understood the character or just used it for the technobabble.
I think if could have been really interesting if the entire thing had been reframed so that it turned out Harper was actually the critical element that Trance was subtly influencing. (Basically, they never would have been able to recover Tarn Vedra without him even though Hunt got all the credit.)
When he had stuff to work with, Gordon Woolvett turned out some really good performances, which wasn't often. He definitely suffered from Sorbo sucking the life out of every scene he was in.
@@StarkeRealm True. But he’ll always be Gord the PJ Man to me. 😆
My uncle Dave Ward played the arms dealer guy on the episode “Lava and Rockets”
That was pretty cool to see as a kid.
Basically agree, I thought the actually greatest problem was dynamics, and specifically Zorbo. Had he been restricted to the role of a idealistic noble captain, a stranger in time , whose dreams of a new Commonwealth are thwarted by the new reality while the rest of the crew helps him bridge the gap, it would have been much more compelling. Instead of playing a central part in an ensemble like say Picard, Zorbo goes Hercules in space and the rest of the cast just holds his coat.
Ya, the premise itself has some good story opportunities but in part ruined by a network and producer that didn't want to go with it. Also its funny to think that most of the Old Commonwealth cruisers, destroyers, and above can give a good fight, if not win, against some of the better known science fiction ships out there one on one despite very real world grounded.
Short answer:
It was "Hercules In Space" and it was the most awesome cheesy shlock EVER.
So no. It did not suck.
It did not start out as that, but it became that. That's why it ultimately failed.
@@godzilladestroyscities1757 i mean it pretty much did. like he didn't have "stronger than anyone else super strength" but he did have "stronger than anyone else super advanced warship"
@@NoESanity I would say yes and no. The last warship from a super advanced empire. 1 ship is super advanced but everyone else had tons and tons of ships. So at first it seemed like fighting up hill and the ship had to duck and dive to keep a float. Later on it just became the villain of the week. They neutered Tyr, the second they did that, the show started to suck.
Kevin Sorbo has not been notable since. Cool fact, I grew up in his hometown. He actually visited my class one day in high school before the show got cancelled. Pretty cool day. Doesn't change how Sorbo ruined the show though.
Hercules if you remove all the nuance and self awareness that it held, maybe
Really... if that's what you really think then you clearly have the comprehension of the material that one expects a 12 year old to surpass...
@@kevinbooth-
You take it upon yourself to get butthurt about a tongue-in-cheek comment I left over a year ago, and then proceed to do it with such an air of superiority. Amazing. You, sir, are truly the king of the assholes. Truly, you are the poster child for bad behavior within a fandom.
Andromeda suffered from having some stiff competition, and production issues, and a really odd final season, but it had some cool things too. Loved most of the cast. More scifi series need remote controlled battlemechs
Agreed. Mostly it failed due to the competition.
I disagree with your assessment of the costumes. I love TNG but 80s spandex is not necessarily better than sturdier construction. I loved that Andromeda showed they were a MILITARY vessel, whereas the Starfleet pretended otherwise...when they were.
Additionally, the Nietzscheans WERE tribes! That was built into who they were. All that advancement and potential handicapped by their massive bloated egos and selfishness. Hell, best episode in the series, Unconquerable Man, explored that.
I actually loved both Try and Harper. If you look at the characters through the the lens that they a completely overcompensating for sever trauma that occured in their early life, it makes them much more compelling
Yeah, apparently not many people understand their trauma.
So you’re saying that if I just watched up to season 2 finale, I wouldnt really need to watch past that?
Final season is the most interesting by far. But you have to watch the others or it won't make sense.
And somehow I still rewatched the Series 4 Times.
And for some strange reason (that i REALLY don't know) I like Harper and Hunt.
they not just bordered on parody but seemed to lean into it, not quite self aware but close enough that the outcome was similar.
Did you pretend season 5 never happened?
@@DrJReefer Yeah its not great, but that doesn't undo the good the show did.
yes!
i have watched it many times!
i loved all the characters.
@@DrJReefer What is this Season 5 you speak of? Andromeda had 4 seasons. Everything else you are thinking of is a fever dream, no more.
They really need to remake Andromeda, the universe is amazing, the execution wasn't great
Or a spinoff in the same universe.
I liked everything except Trance's weird circus friend in the last seaso and that stupid worldship.
In an age of reboots I agree this is one show that could use such a treatment. I'd love to see this series come back with the original show runner's frame work to build it out. I also would have liked it if the traitorous first officer and captain both survived to see the bleak future. I think it could make for some interesting story telling to see to former friends have to reunite for the greater good.
Another good show to reboot would be Alien Nation.
This show with Galactiva/Expanse type showrunner/writers could be really good
I watched all 5 seasons and I still have no fucking idea what any of it was about.
Great video. Are we gonna get a video about Earth Final Conflict someday?
Maybe... 😏
talk about disappointments ....
I never wanted to watch that show because the aliens looked too weird. I will never watch that show for the same reason. The aliens freak me out. I can deal with monsters and golems and weird looking things, but the aliens in that show freaked me out.
Now that's a show that sadly dropped the ball
I remember Andromeda - I always consider this show to be 'Hercules in Space'.
It did not suck! It was actually very well done for that time period. I am a fan. Watched entire series 2 times. Would rewatch. Quite enjoyable!
Cry about it 😂
I agree great show this dude comes off as a typical Kevin Sorbo hater, if he gives props to the snooze fest that is Farscape he shouldn’t complain about Andromeda.
@@christianmathew398lol "typical Sorbo hater" likes it's some sort of conspiracy. Did you miss the part where he talks up the show's good points?
B5 didn't run out of story. MJS had 5 seasons of story written. TNT told him season 4 was the end so he compressed season 5 to fit in season 4, then TNT went "we want you to have a 5th season" and he had to come up with something for season 5.
The only thing I like about this show was KH Cobb's Tyr Anasazi. The character itself was wildly inconsistent, but Cobb's delivery was amazing.
I liked everything about how they wrote the Tyr character, and Cobb's amazingly skillful delivery, always at top intensity -
everything except his End. Tyr was supposed to be always doing everything to advance his blood line, so why would he be controlled by the Spirit of the Abyss ?!? Clearly, siding with the bad guys is never a good option and limits any future for the grand children... His betrayal goes against everything Nietzscheans believe in, and against their disgust of the Magog - a distrust so strong they destroyed the Systems Commonwealth in a civil war.
Note here also the Magog are the polar opposite of the Nietzscheans:
The Nietzscheans are genetically engineered elitists working to perfect their DNA and family blood line. Obsession with Order.
The Magog are parasites that inject eggs into random victims, mixing their DNA completely by chance with whatever they come across... oh, and if they don't inject someone, they probably eat them. Complete personification of Chaos.
In the middle of these two extremes is the Systems Commonwealth, and the Andromeda Ascendant.
I agree, Tyr Anasazi was probably my favorite. I also liked Beka Valentine and of course Andromeda herself. But Tyr really stood out and it's a shame that he couldn't be tolerated near Sorbo's ego.
It was an excellent show. The narrator of this video was right when he called his criticisms "nitpicky". It had a tremendous concept and he may have a point that it could have been even better than it was, but it was still quite good, and Kevin Sorbo was fine as the lead character. He definitely didn't suck. It's a shame that it never appears anywhere in reruns because it could pick up a whole new generation of fans. I agree that it would be great to see a reboot.
"Being tall and in-shape does not constitute having a personality" - I LITERALLY laughed out loud hearing that; thank you for calling out Kevin Sorbo! The only good thing to come out of "Hercules" was Lucy Lawless as Xena. I am a born-and-bred sci-fan fan, books, TV and movies, having been initiated by my parents as a child. I have watched movies and TV show ranging from Pulitzer Prize-level brilliant to "who did they have pictures of with a donkey to get THIS made?" putrid, just because "sci-fi". When I heard that the new show "Andromeda" was going to star Sorbo, my immediate reaction was trepidation and I watched the first two seasons as that feeling escalated to disappointment and dismay. Poor characterizations, terrible effects, incomprehensible plots finally made me only view it if absolutely nothing else watchable was on. In truth, the only thing that kept me coming back was Keith Hamilton Cobb as Tyr Anasazi - he's HOT (can't blame me for THAT!).
I disagree, I thought Michael Hurst was another great thing that came out of the Hercules show
I do agree with most of your points. Except for the bulky interiour of the Andromeda basically i kind of liked the concept that not always future tech needs to be shiny and twinkling. And for the concept of not having shields but basically directing the force of the explosions through (in combat state) empty corridors and guiding it away from important systems i found very interesting. Also i liked the Nitschenans with their divided culture like if everyone is genetically engineered to be dominant and fight to get on top it can backslash on the society. So they are strong if teaming up against an common enemy but in times of peace everyone is fighting for the leadership and so they pick them self to pieces. Also the depiction of AI was futuristic while i always missed something similar in star trek.
Have you seen Dark Matter? I would like to hear your opinion on that show!
Dark Matter is on my list
@@RowanJColeman I would say give it a few episodes for it to get going (which is usually a red flag for me as well ^^).
Absolutely it's a great show only cancelled because of syfy channel finance decisions not a lack of fan base
Dark Matter was frikn awesome. The writing made it feel like none of the charcters was the "main" one. Which ever one was your fav, in any ep, that character would get a chance to be awesome / a chance to shine. Never feeling like they'd left some of the guys on the sidelines while others took centre stage.
@@JohnSmith-kf8mv I loved it too though there were some weird jumps between series, like Five's personality transplant where she goes straight from scared teenager to mowing down enemies with a huge gun. It also cemented Roger Cross' typecasting as a supporting character weighed down by his conscience who blows himself up heroically. I loved the ship interior sets too, it was like the set designer had played Halo round the clock for a week before remembering that they had a ship interior to design.
Yet anotehr show ruined by Ego.
This show needs to be revisited with Robert Hewett Wolfe as a writer.
So agreed!
There were some quality threads, but as a cloth it was very meh.
I liked Keith Cobbs Tyr. Far more than Ronan Dex. I liked the idea of the Force Lance as a quarter staff. Trek always seemed lacking that Starfleet didn’t have a melee weapon considering how often they get into fights. But I prefer the Minbari fighting pike.
Lots of very hot actors in this show. I also really liked the way they present the slipstream. One of my favourite FTL mechanics.
Both Stargate and Andromea are 'hard fantasy.' Pretty cool, both of them. The humor helps them work.
Star trek is meh... so boring I could fall asleep... except a few of the alternative universe episodes. Enterprise was ok. DS9 had some great episodes (IT'S A FAAAAKE!)
Yes, it was a complete and utter disappointment and an insult to any fan of the Mass Effect franchi... oh, THAT Andromeda.
Haha not wrong on the Mass Effect front though either
I don't know. The fans were already used to being set up, given the ending they shipped Mass Effect 3 with...
@@NemoConsequentae To me, it wasn't the ending itself that pissed me off, but the part where Bioware said to take it at face value. If they had simply rolled with the Indoctrination Theory and continued Shepard's story, I think everything would be fine.
@@ODST_Parker Point. I was thinking more in the manner of "every decision you make has repercussions" spiel, vs "pick which one of the 3 options we give you, and you die", reality.
@@NemoConsequentae Yeah, that was pretty shitty too.
The Nietzscheans were also one I never understood. On screen they act all urbane and conniving, like the drow from D&D, the one episode that sticks out is where an ally used a clause in a treaty to get the Andromeda to help fight against their enemies. Yet their society seems committed to literal Darwinism and genetic purity. It's like someone created them to basically be futuristic Nazi-wet dreams without understanding Nietzsche's philosophy... Makes my head hurt just thinking about it.
Despite their name, they're based as much on Objectivism as Nietzscheism. I like the idea of the Nietzscheans. They thought the could do a better job than the Commonwealth, so they overthrew it thinking they'd become the Philosopher Kings of the new world. Instead they destroyed civilization, and they ended up becoming corrupted bastardizations of their former selves in the world they created. I don't think they were fully successful, but I do think that was the intent.
From memory (it's been a while), the single most important tenet of the Nietzscheans is that survival justifies anything - if A kills B, then it was B's fault for dying, not A's fault for killing him. Attached to that is the idea that it's the genes that matter, not the individual, so if A kills B, all of B's family is then in trouble unless they can kill A (and A's family).
Unsurprisingly, a system that encourages treachery and blood-feuds leads to a lot of treachery and blood-feuds. But you also have exceptions - individuals who transcend the society they're in - and those are the ones who deal with Hunt rather than ignoring or trying to kill him.
And, yeah, one of the minor points about them on the show is that they represent a misunderstanding of Nietzsche, rather than a faithful embodiment of his ideas.
Their society was kinda a mess (didn't think of the Drow angle, now I have a better way to explain them), but one thing I thought was stupid was the DAMN ARMBLADES?
How in the 9 hells were those things supposed to promote survival of the fittest? How many times did Tyr's armblades get him out of trouble? Now how many times did Trance's cute lil tail get them out of trouble? So, a prehensile tail would be more advantageous then some spurs on your arm, right?
I had heard that they wanted to do more, like prosthetic appliances or contacts or something, but either the budget or the actor went against it
If they did do a reboot, I'd make the Nietzscheans more transhumanist: maybe the routinely do genetic tweaks to improve their abilities; or maybe they sport all sorts of gene modifications in an effort to make a superhuman; or maybe something really approaching super powers (some Pride members are psychic, others might have enhanced physical abilities, maybe even some minor energy/mater manipulation; heck, Trance was a living star, so why would a Nietzschean telekinetic be such a stretch?)
Just to recap: the Nietzschians were fanatical followers of the philosophy of Friederich Nietzsche. So much so that they genetically altered themselves to become a human subspecies. They betrayed the commonwealth when it signed a treaty with the magog, and then, once the commonwealth was gone, they started falling upon each other trying to grab as much as they could.
I'm dealing with 20 year old memories here, but I think I recall Tyr saying several times that their civilization was now kind of a parody of what the founders had wanted.
@@mahatmarandy5977
Kinda - they don't so much follow Nietzsche as a garbled pop-culture version of Nietzsche.
And, yeah, they were genetically engineered to be a breed of superior warrior-poets, but turned against the Commonwealth when they thought it had betrayed its people by making peace with the Magog, but, without that stable central government to keep society together, rather than stepping up as leaders and guiding people by example, they quarreled amongst themselves, and became a bunch of warring tribes, following strength and betraying or conquering weakness.
Some were exceptions - a faction continued to uphold the ideals of the Commonwealth, recognising that individual superiority was still inferior to numerical superiority, and trust and co-operation was more efficient and effective than paranoia and treachery. Or the Sabra-Jaguar Pride, while still Nietzschean, under Charlemagne Bolivar, were inclined to regard a reputation for integrity as an asset rather than a nuisance.
The odds of an Andromeda reboot are severely hampered by the fact that, like Star Trek, it was Gene Roddenberry's creation, and thus getting the legal rights are unlikely to be easy or cheap.
Worked on the last 2 seasons of Andromeda in the VFX department. So many fun memories.
I wonder if anyone knows the total budget of Andromeda vs the Total Budget of Star Trek : The Next Generation ?
Vancouver productions always had a notably lower budget than Star Trek.
@@SeaJay_Oceans Vancouver productions were definitely much cheaper than TNG. Most work for Andromeda was handled by a dozen small independent vendors with little or no cross-coordination. It's amazing that there was any resemblance of style at all, since every effect was treated as a one-off. I'd get shots for gun blasts or holograms and had to scout earlier episodes myself to figure out whether the same type of effect was ever present. There was no design bible, no asset sharing. How did it manage to work out? I have no idea.
@@enilenis Thank you for your knowledge. This is the point most people miss. Andromeda was created on a much smaller budget, but still churned out the shows episode after episode, certainly some where finished very close to the deadline.
Producer Kevin Sorbo put a lot of effort to keep the show running even while still acting in the episodes. Everyone getting a paycheck for all those years are fortunate that Andromeda didn't get the same treatment as Caprica or Firefly.
So for a very enjoyable show, I am thankful for all the cast and crew and back office staff that made it possible.
I had not seen the show on broadcast, but found the "Andromeda: The Slipstream Collection" DVD full boxed set on sale at Christmas time in 2011, having never seen it before.
www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/24313/gene-roddenberrys-andromeda-the-slipstream-collection/#packaging
I bought it strictly from the cover, completely off of the image of the Andromeda Ascendant and Jacket explanation.
I am happy I bought it back then, and glad to see it came out on blu-ray too!
Tho few and far between, the good episodes of Andromeda really hit it out of the park.
Andromeda would have been better if Dillon Hunt and his entire crew went through a temporal rift and then the next 5 seasons, revolving around trying to find out what happened to the Systems Commonwealth instead of trying to restore it. Then every episode could be a new adventure has the Andromeda travels through the ruins of the once great civilization. The Andromeda we got was all the place, lacked consistency and continuity, and suffered from poor writing 🤦♂️
I would have run it something similar. Keep it like you said. The first season is having Dillon Hunt exploring what happened. Then have a threat come in which leads to a sense of urgency. This converts exploration to reformation.
and if Hunt had been played by someone else
That would have made a good full season of Andromeda, inserted right after the battle with the Nietzscheans.
All they needed to do was have Trance piloting through the slip stream, trying to ' correct ' her 'mistake' (ah-hem).
Along with that Trance Gemini would be toying with the whole crew, and developing her strange back story, encountering some of her worshipers from her home star system. The Andromeda A.I. would be dealing with the trauma of seeing the destroyed Commonwealth she is created to defend, her very reason for being such a powerful war ship, but helpless to stop the Long Night.
Also a good chance to display the floating space cities, beautiful terraformed planets, and technological wonders and glory of the Systems commonwealth at it's peak, all then doomed and destroyed - the horrific cost of the fall of a civilization that became great, but complacent, and destroyed.
SeaJay Oceans your right so many missed opportunities
YES !!!! Sorbo has the personality of cardboard in all of his rolls across the board.
I think something you may not have picked up on in Andromeda, which is its metatextual elements.
Dylan Hunt is a high-flying, heroic captain from mainstream sci-fi's past (Buck Rodgers, Flash Gordon, Lensman, an infinite supply of pulp 50s SF), and he's forced to live as a fish in water in what is sf's present/future (a grimdark, morally ambiguous, future dystopia). Metatextually, the show is allegory for how we, as the sf community, need to allow the utopian speculative nature of SF's past shin as a light as we move forward, and also not let ourselves get stuck in the morass of cynicism.
Great vid! As with most commenters, I'm pretty much 100% in agreement with you on this one (although I'm probably not quite as harsh a critic of Kevin Sorbo, he can, on rare occasions, show some acting ability)
BTW Would love for you to do a retrospective review on Space: Above and Beyond - One of my all time favourite Sci-Fi TV shows, that was sadly canned after only one season. (Oh, and Kristen Cloke was HAF!)
My biggest problem with Andromeda, aside from Sorbo, was I never felt they established the premise well. We hear that the Commenwelrh was great but all we see of it is a warship going into battle. Then after the fall it never felt like things were that bad. And when I watched it if felt like the founding of the new Comenwelth practically happened off screen!
Daniel O'Donovan oooof. If you wanna talk messy premise let’s talk Earth Final Confluence *ahem* Conflict!!
@@ettanasf earth final conflict wasn't messy really. Advanced Aliens come to earth to use us as weapons to fight a secret war they're losing, while telling us they're here to gift us with their wisdom. The hero and the resistance unlock the mystery. Until........well that whole transformation mess lol. It had some gitchy episodes and earth gave the aliens way more power than they ever would but over all it wasn't horrible until the transformation crap.
Bill Kennedy right. Messy. The first season or two was nifty. When everything changed it got stupid.
Though its execution left much to be desired, in the earlier seasons, the show did a great job of asking complex philosophical questions. Plus in season three it gave me my favorite episode of science fiction ever, to the point that I took a characters name for online use.
Even first time around, as a teenager, I thought it was crap. Made Sorbo's previous vehicle-Hercules-look like Shakespeare by comparison. No idea why this had more than one series, but they killed off Crusade before it even got going.
I remeber watching this show as a teenager. The first season was AMAZING. Even then, before I became aware of behind-the-scenes politics, I wondered wtf happend. You took an amazing premise (s1) and ruined it by 10 episodes (s2). I also remember thinking just how insufferable Sorbo was. He was so obviously one dimensional that there was no drama. You knew exactly what he'd do by the end of the opening. Since he was also played as a practically omnipotent captain, you knew he wouldn't let his team stray either. There were so many missed opportunities in this show that it's tragic.
Andromeda is basically the baby brother to Star Trek ,Star wars, Stargate, Battlestar galactica, and Babylon 5.
More like prematurely born bastard child I think...
@@RapidCityJM with downes
Well, timing wise, it started when Voyager was still running and Enterprise was about to start, ran alongside the latter years of SG-1 (and just barely with the beginnings of Atlantis and the Galactica reboot), and well after Babylon 5, TOS, or original Galactica. The lead developer the first two seasons, Robert Hewitt Wolfe, got his big start on Star Trek TNG and especially on Deep Space Nine.
@@Mitsukara this proves that pretty much everything sci-fi is connected.
I would like to add about Andromeda's music : Alex Lifeson and Matthew McCauley did a fantastic job of the music , very powerful , and deep... I have had the cd of the music since just after the show finished , and also found online the musical tribute to Andromeda by David Fang , which a friend recorded for me on two cd s , Andromeda Coda : Glorious Heritage.... truly moving and beautiful.... My feelings on Andromeda : Gene Roddenberry's swansong , and as one reviewer wrote : even the start of each episode , a poem of an earlier era, some written by monks...
I believe that Andromeda was the BEST Sci-Fi show ever.... for the first season or so. For example. During the first season, the Captain only slept with one woman, and it was kind of pity sex because she only had one day to live before she was honor-bound to suicidebomb a rival tribe. Also the show’s main antagonist was the nietzschean crew member.
I actually agree with most everything you've said here, but I have a couple respectful quibbles, most of which are personal taste. Firstly, you started off saying "In the year 2000." I think you meant '3000,' but as far as I can remember they never say when the show take place other than, "A very long time in the future." All dates are given in the alien Commonwealth calendar, and there's no stated correlation between that and ours. No big.
I agree the interior of the ship doesn't match the gorgeous exterior. I differ on the subject of uniforms and color scheme, though. I personally always felt like Enterprise-D bridge looked and felt like a dentist's office, and the hallways felt like a Best Western (A low-cost motel chain here in the 'States). Just very bland. The TNG uniforms EVENTUALLY looked pretty good (You know, after 2 or 3 revisions), but they weren't very functional. No pockets, they're just a bit too snug to really move around in, raise your arm and the shirt pops up over your belly. The Andromeda uniforms looked comfortable and functional, though I never figured why they *always* had the jacket on. I liked the tie-down holsters, (Though they should have stuck with just one, rather than two. Made it look like they were wearing garters/suspenders.) The redesign in season 2 (All black) looked a little better.
While I didn't like the Andromeda bridge (Nor did they since they redesigned it in season 3), it did at least look like things were going on (And I liked the helm chair thing being in the middle).
Again, I agree the interior doesn't match the exterior (Which I feel should have looked more like the interior of the SeaQuest), but it did get across the idea that this was a warship, and seemed more functional.
I was surprised you didn't mention the weirdly random crew size. We're told it normally has 5000 people, but it seemed to run just fine with just seven people, so what did the other 4993 people DO? And after the Commonwealth is reformed, sometimes it has a full crew, sometimes it's just the main characters, and it changes from week to week, with absolutely no explanation whatsoever.
I was referring to when the show itself started which was in 2000. And yeah I don't get the crew compliment thing either. It's so weird. I remember one episode Tyr just rocked up with a security team out of nowhere. And they all ended up dead.
Well the changing crew numbers in later seasons does make no sense, but as for the excess crew I think the implication is that most of those routine positions can be handled by the ship and her drones. Checking sensors, pulling triggers, etc. But this cuts down on her efficiency and internal defense capabilities. I always assumed that Andromeda was suffering a constant 'headache' just keeping the ship running but, because of her sense of duty, she put up with it and never complained.
@@RowanJColeman Whups. My mistake. Sorry man. I'm a dope.
@@clearmountain28 Well, I guess it makes as much sense as anything else on the show, but it would have been nice if they'd mentioned or at least alluded to something like that. Or given some sort of onscreen handwave ("I'm primarily a troop transport, which is what all the extra space is for," something like that)
@@mahatmarandy5977 no argument from me, like Rowan said, this show had great potential but really bad execution. I don't hate it but I do feel let down by how it ended up.
Kevin Sorbo in Andromeda sucked, but dont hate on Hercules. He was born for that level of acting.
What about God's Not Dead?
@@marccolten9801 As a Christian I cant even stand to watch that movie so...
@@marccolten9801 The irony is, he's probably the best performance in God's Not Dead...
@@proggyboi7115 You won't find a bar that low unless you enter a limbo contest.
Don't forget to take into account the fact that this show was on Saturday afternoon not in prime time, so no large budget, so no special effects, no big name actors ECT. So yeah it was a very good show, like the early doctor who episodes it's not about the uniforms, or effects but the story. Yea the acting wasn't great but turn the TV on Saturday at 2 pm and tell me what original show with a small budget like Hercules or Earth final conflict did really well. Even shows like farscape and Babylon 5 were prime time so much larger budgets, with higher expectations. So for what those shows were, they were very good. These shows were pre-streaming and went up against ball games and classic movies, you really should take all things into consideration when you talk about shows like this. It would be like saying Gilligan's island was lame when compared to LOST, for it's time and budget it was great. Remember you may not have enjoyed Hercules, Xena or Andromeda but they had a large fan base. There are a lot of shows that were very enjoyable like jack of all trades, or Cleopatra 2525 that also had a large fan base and we enjoyed talking about them the next day, but to look at these shows today is almost painful but still not as bad as a lot of shows on prime or Netflix. If you grew up with 2 channels and they stopped broadcasting at midnight and just showed a test pattern till 6 am when the At report came on you might have a different perspective.
That Season 1 intro is AWESOME! I luv that synthesizer/electric guitar/bagpipe type sound @ :30! That should have been kept from for all 5 seasons. I read that Kevin Sorbo didn't like it so it was changed. Argh..
The guitarist from Rush did the soundtrack for season 1.
I remember loving this show. Particularly the first part of the series. I also remember that the last season made no damn sense to me. It was like their budget dropped to a couple bucks an episode.
This one hundred percent. If you notice in season 5 a lot of the variables pointed to a massively reduced budget per episode. You rarely ever saw the whole crew together a lot of the episodes in Season 5 revolved around 1-2 of the cast (they changed which crew members were featured from episode to episode) which was obviously intentional to not have to pay all the cast for every episode. Also the set was dreadful and obviously re-used from something else, just a junk western style town. The special effects in each episode in season 5 were kept to a minimum (excluding the final few episodes).They even shot a whole episode inside that bar.
I don't know why they bothered with season 5 to be honest. Even if they had good writing and stories to tell they would have been hamstrung by the finances.
They went to Tatooine.
Season 1: Very promising
Season 2: Meh
Season 3: Promising again
Season 4: Running out of steam
Season 5: Pile of absolute cack
Season 1: Very promising (and had an epic season final cliffhanger)
Season 2: Good (but the main showrunner/headwriter left and the vision was destroyed)
Season 3: Average but had several strong episodes in it
Season 4: Meh (killing off Tyr was a huge mistake, and what the hell happened to this show vibe going on?)
Season 5: Absolute sh*t and thensome
^Series suffered after Kevin Sorbo took the ensemble show that it was, and built it around his Dylan Hunt character instead!
Season 1: Absolutely great.
Season 2: Started great but ended mediocre.
Season 3: Sub-par but still watchable with the occasional gem.
Season 4: Terrible but at least semi-coherent.
Season 5: Terrible and hard to follow, plus lacking one of the series's best characters until the end.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that enjoyed Andromeda as a kid. I also realized later in life in wasn't great. But what did my young self know, I thought Babylon 5 was boring back then also. Thank goodness for good friends that forced me to rewatch B5 to find out it was a treasure beyond measure. Oh and when I went back to see if Farscape held up it was the one show I liked back then and I still do today. At least not all of my previous tastes were terrible.
I found even the first series sophorific. It looked cheap, true, but it it was landly shot & uncompellingly edited. The dialog in the pilot didn't really sell the characters as anything beyond 1-note and I found little reason to care for the Commonwealth beyond "trust us, it's utopian, guys". I didn't like it as a kid and my opinion hasn't changed now. A shame, because the description of plot summaries (and plans) sound like straight-up Lensman goodness
The combination of a great, straight-laced scifi concept with the campy, goofy, borderline-can't-even-act Kevin Sorbo is actually what I love most by far about Andromeda.
I loved Sorbo in anything.
Then the oughties ended and OH BOY is that no longer the case.
I agree with you that Kevin Sorbo is a very engaging actor. He is an actor in the same vein as Tom Selleck or Tony Curtis. He is watchable in just about anything. That opinion seems to be very much in the minority here however.
Thanks. I designed the ship. And yeah, everything else is low prod. 🤦🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
It is so refreshing to hear a proper criticism of a show without fan-nish personal attacks on this person or that. Your observations are on-target and correctly address the limitations of this show. I had watched Sorbo's "Hercules" (but much preferred "Xena") and came to the same conclusion about his lack of acting talent, so was not enthusiastic when I heard about this upcoming show.
As a true sci-fi fan, I was hopeful when anticipating its premiere but was disappointed from the start and lost interest soon into the first season, though I would periodically watch it through to its end.
As you said, an opportunity wasted. But Tyr Anasazi was HOT!
Kevin Sorbo, recently saw him complain that Hollywood turned its back on him because of his religion, and not that he was a lump.
I really enjoyed season 1, I thought it had lots of really interesting ideas. It looked like syndicated TV of the early 2000s, which I watched at the time, so that didn't bother me.
Started strong, lost direction somewhere in season two.
If there are haters to the show, does not make it suck. It just means that their tastes are different. If they can't deal with others liking it, tuff shit to they and their opinion is as moot as their hate.
I watched Andromeda's rerun on the Sci-Fi Channel. Your critique is spot on, another weak point is that the show did not know its audience, was it the goofy sci-fi successor to Hercules and Xena or trying to shooting for the Star Trek and Babylon 5 market? The demographic who liked Hercules and Xena would not get or care about all the historic and mythological word play that was forced into the writing. Older audiences who get the names Nietzchian and Magog would be put off by the goofy and often juvenile tone of the show. Overall it was still a nice guilty pleasure on weekend mornings while I was in college and I have fond memories of it, despite its many flaws.
This show was pure fun, I don't know how anyone could dislike it.
For the reasons outlined in the video...
How? Two words: Kevin & Sorbo.
yes! that's why I don't get the Kevin Sorbo criticism, it's not the Expanse, ffs. And I loved the last season, I don't remember much from it but it had a lexx vibe (first two seasons) and that's fine by me, that was and is a very rare thing
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I was pretty bored trying to get into to be honest.
I never saw it first run. Saw it 2 years ago. I think this was Roddenbury's 3rd? Attempt to bring this character to life. And the only successful one. I enjoyed it till the final season. Gave me more enjoyment than complaints.
Yeah, the other two where the pilots for "Genesis II" and "Planet Earth"
The final season is the best. But it takes some getting used to.
"Andromeda" is hard fantasy, which has no equal. Most shows try to be hard sci-fi and fail.
This one is not like the others. Stargate is in the same genre tho'.
Dylan Hunt is like an amalgamation of every cringe stereotype people think of when they talk about Captain Kirk but haven't actually watched TOS.
I think I agree with the notion of a reboot - I mean, the lore and universe behind it was rock solid, and had depthless potential to explore interesting concepts - not least the way that it, atleast early on, had humans feeling like just... a another species in amongst *lots* , and definitely not the senior one either (what with the Vedrans unambiguously having that position). Key would be getting some decent writers, producers and financial backing that would be downright courageous with tackling potentially contentious topics, and keeping Kevin Sorbo atleast a full lightsecond from *any* of it.
I also wonder if now (or after covid at any rate) would be an excellent time to do it given some of the social discourse wandering around these days: After all, the Vedran Empire became the Vedran (and then Systems) Commonwealth, and just pondering a real world civilisation that followed a similar track could provide rich seams of discussion, even *before* getting into the Nietzscheans, AIs, Knights of Genetic Purity, Trance's people, or any of the other assorted potentials.
Also, just... Do Rommie right? I mean, the High Guard's avatars were one of my absolute favourite concepts and elements of the series (probably as a development of having read Ship Who Sang when I was kid), and Lexa Doig was perfectly cast. Tyr was good (if only for his one liners), Trance was delightful forever, but Rommie was just the best thing.
The first two seasons were interesting
Everything after that was bad.
They got rid of all the show runners for
Seasons 1 and two and then it sucked after that
The last season is awesome.... and makes the other seasons really work.
The first four series were decent, the last series was awful watched a couple of episodes and gave up.
The last season is the most interesting. The first four are less interesting until you reconsider the final season.
Lexa Doig is the best looking Spaceship ever!
One thing I will say is that this show had one of my favourite sci-fi episodes - "The Unconquerable Man"
Hologram Hunt had a better character impact than actual hunt, and Rade was always and interesting and conflicted character.
That was probably one of the best episodes of the entire show.
yeah, but dang that Tyr kill was way too pat.