Canada's Next Fixed Wing SAR Air-Frame [FWSAR]
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- The Royal Canadian Air Force is bringing Canada's SAR Specialists into the current century with the C295 Kingfisher air frame. Purpose built for Search and Rescue in Canada's harshest and most unforgiving climates.
But wait! There is trouble on the horizon for our new FWSAR Program.
Clip/Film Credit - Channels:
Nybotor1: / @nybotor1
I’m no sar tec, but I do have my para wings and I grew up in comox, on many occasions I have Been in the Buffalo, and I think that gives me the right to comment. I don’t think this aircraft is as good as the Buffalo. You need the headroom on both sides of the fuselage to conduct search and rescue, side door exits and most importantly first aid. The Buffalo had a square body that allowed this.
Viking aviation out of Victoria bc offered to re engine and re design the Buffalo and I think that would have been a better option, Canadian jobs and local tech as well as no service gap. Just my two cents.
It would have been nice to see another de Havilland Canada aircraft as the replacement, but it's not clear that Viking / Longview (now De Havilland Aircraft of Canada again) would have delivered the required million hours of engineering development any faster than the Italians... if ever.
@@brianb-p6586 I think you should read my comment again. Viking aviation, already is re engineering dehavilland aircraft. It would have been way faster to give the Buffalo a rebuild. The Buffalo already had all the capabilities needed. Viking would have tuned it up and returned it to zero hours in the same way bassler does dc3’s. Viking is incredible.
@@hugh9park I understand that Viking is quite capable of building and updating the old de Havilland designs, but they haven't updated the DHC-5 Buffalo for any application, let alone meeting the current SAR spec. They've been talking about doing it for a long time, but haven't actually done anything - you couldn't buy one from them today no matter how much money you waved around. Getting the DHC-6 Twin Otter back in production and updating the avionics on the CL-415 were good work, but that sort of program is way short of meeting requirements for a federal government SAR aircraft procurement program; it would have been great to see them do it, but it's not at all clear that they could have successfully done so. A "zero-timed" antique is not the same as a new modern aircraft.
@@brianb-p6586 I am sure they could have done this in less time then it took the federal government to procure the kingfisher. And it would have been a fraction of the cost. But I will say casa has a good reputation and a god relationship with the western world. I myself have jumped from casa’s I’m the past.
I would just much prefer domestic. That’s my two cents.
I will however argue that a “zero hour antique” is a very limited term. The twin otter is unparalleled, so is the turbo beaver. And there is a reason turbo dc3’s are still being built. They are twice as old as unparalleled. The kingfisher still lacks in rough landing capabilities that the Buffalo has due to its landing gear. And that’s very important when you are rescuing natives that were huffing gas out of klemtu or Bella Bella.
@@hugh9park Okay, but Viking would have had to work with federal government procurement, so it would not have been fast and may never have successfully completed. We both would have prefered to see them do it, rather an a foreign supplier.
A zero-time antique is still an antique - it wouldn't meet the requirements of a new design, even it it would be better in some specific aspects.
Thank You for explaining so well
That Hercules looked suspiciously like a C17.
I came looking for this comment. You should get a prize.
By the time the first one takes flight, the design will be already 20 y.o. And they expect the frame to last at least 26 years. This is as bad as the new Canadian Surface Combatant for the RCN; almost 17 years in development with at least 7 to 10 more for finalizing the design and build the first one. Gotta love Canada’s procurement system.
Surface Combatant is meant for frontline combat, so I agree. But a friggin transport plane? What new pathbreaking stuff is coming up in this vertical in the next 20 years? Even India is manufacturing this plane starting from 2025 onwards only.
Except the whole 295 project is completely off the rails and will likely need to be scrapped as there is no end in sight for the technical problems.
I spoke to an ex_Hurc pilot and he stated they are having problems with this plane....and it hasn't even entered service yet!! Where is it???
Too bad that they couldn't have awarded this to a Canadian aviation company...
Just be thankful Trudeau didn't give it to the Chinese.
@@RLTtizME Bet if you look deep enough he awarded it to some company where his family / friends get a kickback...
7:02 you state "Hercules aircraft" and show a C-17 Globemaster
You are correct. I meant to show all 3 airframes and it didn't make the cut.
I just thought that was an intentional meme
"The flu that must not be named."
Why can’t Canada source military aircraft from Canadian aircraft manufacturers….?….probably because the Canadian governments have made an aircraft industry nearly impossible here. It started in the 50s when Avro was shut down. Then DeHavilland went the way of the doh doh bird. Then Bombardier had problems along with other suppliers etc. Canada just keeps supporting other countries aviation industries with jobs and we get to pay for inflated prices and high taxes.
.
de Havilland Canada still exists (or exists again, depending on how you look at it), and an update of the DHC-5 Buffalo was proposed for this procurement.
Surely Viking could re life the Buffalo
The decision makers need to get Aeroplanes in a Row .
You really need some SAR Super J's
water landings?
Is it based of the CASA 235?
AH I see its based on the 295...didnt know they quit making the 235.
Wrong aircraft for the job and doesn't have the abilities of the Buffalo.
A Viking Air modernized Buffalo, like they did with the twin Otter would be a pretty spectacular aircraft IMO. Viking owns the rights to the Buffalo along with the rest of the de havilland portfolio. They are world renowned and it makes a person wonder why there's never been any interest in this.
I sincerely believe that all airbus customers are in the same conditions of delayed orders due to a certain flu. I hope that now that we are getting out of that contingency, the technicians and mechanics who build those aircraft that are so vital for the rescue can put an end to these aircraft.
and knowing CAF 4 planes for the whole country.they are still flying f18 a.
Noble career and a beautiful aircraft! Cannot wait to stop seeing people wearing a useless mask in video.
While I appreciate the C295, I always wondered why the Canadians didn't field a modified Bombardier 415 Amphibious turboprop. With all the water in Canada, you would think that the 415's amphibious capability would almost be a required trait.
The CL415 production line is being re-started in Calgary soon, there will be new airframes hitting buyers worldwide. Improvements include a larger cargo door for launching rescue rafts and wing pods to allow fisheries monitoring and search & rescue. They're not Bombardier anymore though, its now Viking who own the rights (Viking has been building the Twin Otters in Calgary for a while)
Elect stupid people, win stupid prizes - the Canadian way.
I doubt the amphibious capability would actually be used very often. It's great for loading water in a firefighting aircraft, but I think that it would be rare for a rescue to be needed on the water in conditions in which the aircraft could land.
I don't remember giving you permission to steal my footage with out credit. You didn't even put something in the description or mention a thanks to the other RUclipsr's footage you probably stole as well. Reusing my videos, along with anyone else's with out their permission is NOT tolerated!
Heya,
I apologize if I didn't include you in the credits, I use many short 3-5 second clips and sometimes you're lost in the shuffle or I fall behind. I will gladly add your channel to the description for proper credit, all you have to do is ask. Send me a msg if you have any further issues.
"In short, fair use is the reproduction/copying of copyrighted material for a limited and “transformative” purpose, specifically to comment upon, criticize, or parody a copyrighted work. Such use does not require permission from the copyright owner and is a defence against a claim of copyright infringement."
@@FrontlinePros Thank you. If you could credit me in the description for any further usage, then that would be great.
After they get them all then they will sell them for peanuts cause they won't work as needed or God fobid we loose 2 or 3 during ops.
It’s a piece of junk.
Yes, piece of junk, was delivered unable to perform the task it was purchased for….. dreadful aircraft
Amazing! As a fellow Canadian I really like your work. Keep it up good sir !!
I remember a time when we could build our own state-of-the-art aircraft, and it didn't take decades to procure. Sad they couldn't at least have built it here.
No kidding! A succesion of stupid fed gov's have driven a stake through the heart of Canadian innovation/manufacture!
Canada does have aircraft manufacturing, the SaR issue is they are older designs. Viking Air in Victoria BC bought the rights for all DeHavilland aircraft when DeHavilland shut down that part of their operations. Currently they only produce the Twin Otter turboprop, which is slower and has less range but has 2 advantages over the chosen aircraft: 1) floats are an option for any Twin Otter searching near bodies of water and 2) They are a short take off or landing aircraft. This means the Twin Otter can land near the victims and take off again, can be stationed in smaller airfields and be searching sooner in larger numbers for less money.
Canada's procurement problem is that there are far too many channel of input. The process need to be trimmed back to those who use, those who give the thumbs up, those who pay, those who supply, no more than that.
@@JohnHill-qo3hb Exactly. We also need a new template for a Task Force tailored to Canada's domestic needs, and supported with unmanned ships.
Canada didn’t stop the skill lose in aviation industry particularly the research and design of high end civilian or military stuff. In my opinion even if you can’t build or design the best in the world you should still keep having problem to build so of your own stuff. That way at least you have the ability to retain some form of that industry and this skilled worker. Instead we keep losing them to us and France and uk.
This plane is a disaster. Even if it could go into service, it is a massive downgrade over the CC-130H it will replace. A downgrade in SAR capabilities, and a downgrade in the secondary role of domestic air lift that the SAR platforms perform. We should have bought more CC-130J to replace the H model, and the Leonardo C-27J as the replacement for the CC-115 Buffalo.
I'm glad Canada is out there to make the UK's absolutely AWFUL Defence procurement purchases look a little more streamlined! Truly amazing how both nations spend more buying less.
?????
We are shit at buying aircraft.
@@spurgear4 Yup, must change the Government !!!!!!!!
@@spurgear4 Hey so are we!!!
@@HMSDaring1 Pay twice as much, get half what you asked for.
I did 21 years airforce and 10 years working for a military subcontractor on the Cormorant project. A black hole of money eating doom.
Nice looking aircraft, I am not sure how it will withstand the limited clearance between the pod underneath the fuselage and the runway. How will this stand up to the landings and take offs in undeveloped airstrips in the North. Such as gravel, dirt and grass runways. I can see the pod on the underbelly being all beat up from rocks and debris. We had similar problems with the Buffalo and the clearance was much more.
We should have just hired viking to make new buffalos with the added tech. Made in Canada and maintained previous capabilities. The new aircraft can't land in the short airstrips the buff used to be able to. Canadian procurement is so terribly broken.
@@PershingOfficial they are being handed out to scarecrows
Looks like the youtube algorithm has blessed you! Just found your vids and binging em lol. Learned a lot about Canada’s newest procurements thanks to you. Cheers buddy. Subbed 👍
Hey, thank you for your support. Appreciate it!
Terrible aircraft for our needs…
Yup😂
Should’ve gone with the Spartan. At this point procurement just needs to do whatever Australia does
@@Themapleleaforever that’s what I’m saying
We invented the telephone, the Canadarm, the variable pitch propeller, the pacemaker, the G-suit (okay, fine, the Avro Arrow), and the the walkie talkie, but we'll buy the next search and rescue plane?
We invented the walkie talkie? Nice
Awe i love this channel! And Yes i think having a better funded and equipped aircraft in Search and Rescue, should be a given!
Thank you. Awesome of you to say!
The costs here are mind blowing, india is buying 56 of them (40 to be made in India) for ~$2bn USD, Canada seems to be paying a huge amount
Probably due to us having a track record of cancelling orders we have already paid for
Canada includes life time expected costs into all such purchases most others do not . for example the price being bandied about for the f-35 is about 215 million per not the 90 plus cost of the aircraft alone
Looks well thought out. The center of gravity issue and parachuting in flight are problematic. I would assume medics will have to jump out to reach the injured where as with a chopper they are lowered.
Will be interesting to see how well it does moving forward. Cheers 🇨🇦
I worked on the sensor package (specifically the EO/IR turret) which ironically is the only part of the aircraft built in Canada.
Well you got the one piece then. Thats awesome.
@@FrontlinePros It's pretty cool tech. I can't share more than you mentioned unfortunately because 90% of the tech has "NATO Secret" clearance. But it's definitely a sweet package.
It was a political purchase, no one asked what SARtechs actually needed.
"Capt Jacobson also agrees that the SAR Techs are going to be inconvenienced. The
height/diameter of the fuselage of the CASA is way too short!! Have you ever been in the back of the
Buffalo when 3 SARTECHs are trying to maneuver around one another once they have all their jump kit
on? Each guy is carrying 265 lbs of extra kit and they have to be able to step around one another when
they’re preparing to jump. There’s barely enough room in the Buffalo and its ceiling is a good 8 to 9’.
The CASA only has about 6’, therefore any SARTECH trying to work back there will be forced to be
permanently bent at the waist… this will undoubtedly lead to long-term back ailments for anyone who’s
5’10” and taller. Most of the SARTECHs are near the 6’ mark, so I really feel for them. To me, this
small fuselage should’ve ruled out this aircraft as a contender, period."
@7:03, that's a C-17 not a herc... you can tell by the lack of props. ;-)
The Herc mention didn't make the script but the clip did.
I was going to comment on that too. And so agree, lack of props, and the distinctive bulbous nose. HAHA. Not to mention the huge size difference between the two.
Hate to be a downer but the decision to acquire this aircraft by the RCAF was a huge mistake. Built with the pilot in mind and not the Search And Rescue Technician (as always). It's extremely small and crammed in the back and most SARTechs can't even stand in it.... Another great decision by the CAF.
The Will Smith "shut your mouth " comment didn't age well.....less than ten days! Lol 😆 😆 😆
As a search and rescue technician, I can not believe this
I love my country. We fear equipment modernization as much as we fear our own capacity to get lost in our vast wilderness.
Good video, and for all that have served THANK YOU for your service. I only can say this...anyone who puts their life at risk to save another is a true professional and deserves the best equipment our nation can provide. Unique.
That picture book gag is excellent 🤣
Nice aircraft but couldn't we build our own ?
With China's BFF as Prime Minister. Trudeau hates Canada.
It's a shame that we were once world leaders in aircraft design, and now simply writing "cheques". I am curious did they canvas all SAR Specialists during initial procurement.
I'm pretty sure that the Flight Engineer position was replaced by an Airborne Electronic Sensor Operator. It's a different trade.
Ya man. Training rn and hoping to be placed on it
The 295 is a joke of an aircraft that will be used as a case study for what is broken in our procurement system. It is likely that it will never be usable as a SAR platform due to many deficiencies. This platform is not designed to operate in the north and is slow it has no APU so it can't operate from remote bases. The RCAF should have got more J model hercs and called it a day.
C-130J is overkill the C-27 would have worked
@@jameson1239 the C27 is a pretty nice looking aircraft and it is being used in the roll we are planning for it, however I think the benifits of a single fleet outweigh the costs of a bigger aircraft. They do have a lot of similar components I'm not sure you could draw from the same fleet of techs to work on each aircraft or if there would be cross training required. Bigger fleets tend to lower the overall fixed costs of operating per flight hour.
@@criticalevent I mean it’s used in Finland snow isn’t the major issue it’s the fact SARTECHS can’t jump out of the back due to aerodynamic issues
Well, just ask who's relatives pockets are getting lined as per liberal standard operating procedures. Some things never change. Cons are no better; that's true too. Why do politicians f every purchase up.
@@jameson1239 The C130J is over kill BUT it is more capable and can be cross used for other applications if need be, plus the RCAF already operates the type, it and it would be cheaper in the long run without having to have another supply chain for another aircraft type. This is the typical short sightedness when the Liberals do procurement..
14 YEARS????!!!!! I have to hand it to the Canadian Government, they really do make UK defence procurement look like an efficient well oiled machine!
begining to evaluate long before needed is not a weak point
It boggles my mind how the Canadian Air Force has simply accepted having a permanent hole in their fleet, and their capabilities. What mentally numb bureaucrat decided that an airliner painted yellow could replace a purpose-built Canadian bush plane with 3x the STOL capabilities? Some one needs to lose their job, pension and everything for this.
Now they're down one Cormorant after the post maintenance crash. in Gander.
At the 7:00 minute make you identify a jet powered aircraft as a Herc?
Herc clip made it in but the mention from the script did not :(
2.4 billion for 16 aircraft? Did I hear that right?
Canada is buying 16 of these for $2.4B, off-the-shelf, meanwhile India is buying 62 of these for $2.5B while also manufacturing all but 16 of them locally.
They are still working out the issues. Looking at the past experience that will take another 10 years.
Project is facing delays and will probably be restarted as GOC picked the least qualified aircraft and is having lots of problems
Hurts my Canadian heart to see us outsourcing our own aircraft
This aircraft is a joke and waste of money. Viking should have re-tooled the Buffalo... modern PT6's, modern avionics suite, updated airframe. Done. Jobs for Canadians, yay, and empowering Canadian aviation.
and now, they are planning on using them as Freighters.. we are using C130J in Trenton, and C130H Models on to coasts for SAR until a replacement can be found
Hahaha. 11 year service contract - started counting down in 2016 - and we have only taken possession of 4 aircraft. 2024 we get all the machines - when 8/11 years service contract has expired.
Got it - so, we’re on our own - for many years to come - before these machines can provide any assistance.
Beautiful plane and it will definitely serve us well… if we ever get them. But I must say it’s got big shoes to fill, the buffalo was a true Canadian workhorse. 55 years of service is testament to its resilience. If only Canada could get it together to build these birds domestically.
The government should've at least heard out viking air, when they said they had ideas as an upgraded cc 115 with the pw150 engine
The Canadian air force really wanted the superior C-27j.
No surprise. Another delay. Welcome to Canadian politics. Sunny ways
Canada's Air Force: Destined to Become Old an Obsolete?
Destiny fulfilled?
I figure we will have these aircraft in service after they have finished getting the Voodoo's re-engined
well............thats going to have to last us 50 years
Did any Vaseline come with that acquisition program?
Okay y'all need to stop using metric and get back to freedom units.
The Canadian procurement process is a painful joke and travesty all in one.
Sadly now they are saying that this aircraft may not be operational until 2023 or 2024 due to the ramp and a potential center of gravity issue.
Try more like 2030-2031… 😭perks of having procurement Canada choosing for the military…
How does everyone else around the world use their C-295s? What exactly is so special about these particular versions??
Hay envidieja, eh?, y como escuece, ufffffff, joder...
Why the heck, after throwing so much money at Bombardier over the decades are we buying foreign built aircraft for this purpose? Do we have some genetic predisposition to not building our own stuff now? Avro Arrow was just the beginning of our governments throwing our expertise away.
Does Canada even have any domestic airplane manufacturers left these days?
thank gloabalization and self serving politics for procuring an aircraft that will take years to arrive,not be as capable or as rugged as its predecessor,and not even built in Canada.Viking Aircraft in Canada were all set to build an upgraded and modernised version of the venerable Buffalo,but the Liberal govt killed that,along with hundreds of Canadian jobs,good show Justin!,,,putz..
Trudeau might be getting kickbacks for this stuff. Canada is buying 16 of these for $2.4B, off-the-shelf, meanwhile India is buying 62 of these for $2.5B while also manufacturing all but 16 of them locally. I mean, sure, Canadian ones might cost more per unit due to them being outfitted with EO/IIR pods for SAR, etc. But still. That is a lot of difference.
C130J models would have been a better choice.
I'm a new fan of your channel watching from Michigan.
its feet when referring to altitude,not meters.we dont live in Europe
good video... my only complaint, when you said Hercules aircraft at 7:00, it was a Globemaster, so a bit confusing.
It’s about time we got something new
offered contract in 2016? is it not 2022? oh man.
How does this aircraft compare to the Buffalos STOL capabilities? What was wrong with the Buffalo design that it needed to be replaced. Why could Buffalo and caribou aircraft not continue to be produced. And upgraded.
We still use knots, feet, pounds in aviation. I think it'd be more appropriate (less confusion) if you can stick with that at least for aircraft related videos.
Nope. It would be better for aviation to ditch the out of date measurement system.
@@mikepotter5718 - The nautical mile, unlike the statute mile, is based on the mathematical division of latitude. It makes navigation far more simple than any metric or imperial system. The knot represents the number of nautical miles traveled in an hour.
@@flick22601 Middle age units.
@@harrymattah418 - And still the best units for today. The U.S. Navy quit teaching celestial navigation at one time and a ship was lost when the power went out and all the modern equipment quit working. They reinstated it into their curriculum.
@@flick22601 Go on, and switch to babylonian sexagesimal counting. You will be up to date.
Its to bad the King Fisher couldn't have been built in Canada instead of Spain!
Can’t wait to see this boi at the Abbotsford Airshow on the future
Next the helicopter needs to be up geraded next.
Everyone knows that Canadians' orders get fulfilled last, because you're all just too damn polite! That said, a support window that started as soon as the order was in and before the planes were in service? That's a step too far!
Hey, it actually comes with mechanics that can fix them too! About time, and the new training digs in Comox looks good.
WhoHoo
Retire the old Buffalo just like the Caribou
The guys in 407 squadron were a good bunch/ ready to tackle any problem with limited aircraft.
I was assigned to the base ( weapons ) but attached to 409 Sqd. Voodoo's
Had a couple of hair-raising rides with the Buffalo. S/R operation YIKES that was scary low down over the bush!
The scariest thing about this is that the new defense minister came from pwgsc to her new portfolio so I certainly hope that she brings more urgency to her post than her predecessor
figured it out yet?
Canadas aviation industry and cost is a drag.
Hilariously serious !
Seriously hilarious ?
‘Merican here, always loved that red & yellow livery. Looks like you’re gonna love all that new technology / capability. Hope you don’t have to wait too long.
I'm an RCAF veteran, now 70 years old, want to know how many fiascos I've witnessed in the ridiculous Canadian Government procurement process during my life time? The government always buys less of everything that we need thinking, "Oh well, the Armed Forces will just have to make do and make do for a very, very long time!" I'm sick and tired of watching our servicemen and women "make do"!
Canadian bureaucracy, be it in the military or Federal, Provincial, or Municipal governments, is absolutely brutal and disgusting. Some countries are stymied by corruption, we are stymied by unfathomable layers of bureaucracy (and procrastination). We are also the world's consummate whiners.
You sure its not corruption? Canada is buying 16 of these for $2.4B, off-the-shelf, meanwhile India is buying 62 of these for $2.5B while also manufacturing all but 16 of them locally. I mean, sure, Canadian ones might cost more per unit due to them being outfitted with EO/IIR pods for SAR, etc. But still. That is a lot of difference.
That's not a Hercules @ 7:00 - it appears to be a C-17. Otherwise, it's a good video!
Ah yes thank you. I had to cut some sections and mixed the mentions/corresponding video up. To my ever lasting shame. Thank you.
Diseñado en España. Se han construido 300 aviones C-295. Avion muy seguro.
my cousin joe is in charge of Canadian procurement for the military he has my dream job and seems more concerned about spare parts rather than how good a piece of kit is.
I know one the Pilots. They have been getting ready for the new boards for 2 years now!
Its a piece of Junk! SAR TECH's won't jump out the back because of poor aero slams them into the fuse. Note all of the Vortex generators along the rear fuselage around the door.
It also will be grounded in icing conditions..
That sounds great but it can't land and take off in short runways like the C130 Hercules, thus limiting rescues. SAR Tec's are concerned.
SAR, eh?...so, like, g'day...so, like if a SAR Canuck commando is sick of shovin' in his wife's poutine...can he like, ya' kno' land tha' new King Birdy at a Timmy's for som' tasty ...timbits an' them chocolate chicken noodles soups, eh?
I just don’t get Canada purchase but C295 is decent SAR but like all Airbus aircraft n helicopters they have design faults which Airbus is slow to fix.
After flying on the Buff for many years, I thought I knew my way around the SAR planes pretty good. I see that I was wrong. I always thought the Herc was prop driven but I see at about the 8 min7te mark that they have jet engines like the C17.
Canada’s procurement process seems to be torturous
The word is "broken".
At 7:02, that's a C-17 Globemaster and not a C-130 Hercules by the way.
Yes your right, an RCAF C -17 Globe. I can see the confusion, thanks.