hmmm hotlikesauce, on paper it's a great idea. guild wars 1 did that and it got confusing real fast. you start seeing patchnotes with 2 sets of changes per skill, you have 2 wowhead entries per ability, logistically it's a mess
@@Bubblehearth015druids were literally 1 shotting undergeared people with the press of a single button that cost 4 mana. Shamans couldn't hold a candle to that.
@@NOHITJEROME honestly, SoD has the stigma of being a “dad” game, so if grown individuals don’t know how to follow or read spell changes, that’s their problem.. at their very grown age. much of SoD is influenced by retail, incursions being a reflection of “assaults” in dragonflight. retail uses the “only in pvp/pve” coding, why can’t SoD? lastly, SoD devs.. are not GW1 devs lol. they’ve done great work in some areas, but much is left to be desired in SoD.
Warrior is only massive damage with all the world buffs and consumes. If you don't have all that hunter and shammy and rogue are much more damage. I disagree with calling for "nurf"/normalize rage for what is already one of the worst classes to level and one of the weaker classes without buffs. Yes if you have all the other buffing classes (feral druid, shammy and rogue and hunter) then yes a Warrior can do well but that should be "okay". Also people who look at parses often forget that Warriors who are top parses are blowing a 30 min cd to get it so their damage on the other boses isn't as high. Show me a log with a Warrior parsing 99% for all bosses at the end of any phase. It just isn't possible, while a shammy or hunter or mage can do this. Warriors arnt top damage done for over all damage. Last I looked it was two mages and a lot of hunters holding these spots. We will see what lvl 60 runes give us but any class could easily beat out Warrior. For example if mages had a way to regen mana on a faster CD. They could blow everyone out of the water in damage done. I have 5 lvl 50s who raid and leveling the Warriors was the worst by far when solo, the trade off is they scale well if their stars align. If people want to min max to the nth degree there will always be a "best class" remember shammy phase 2? Rage normalization will ruin the reason most people enjoy warrior. There is not a set rotation, if rage is normalized there will likely be just as boring a time playing warrior as most of the other classes. Rogues getting combo points from others made their class have some variety until it was infinite combo points in a Would buffed out raid and then their rotation is boring again. There can be a balance, hoping blizzard keeps trying to find it.
it's true that warriors rely entirely on WBs right now, to be fair high end guilds are starting to clear the raid without wipes, though it could still take a few more weeks for most guilds to get to that point. hunters/sham/rogue are all extremely strong too and are part of the problem, I don't want to single out warriors. it's also definitely true that warriors are cd reliant and it's misleading for parses. it's more likely in an average group to see a hunter topping the meters right now or a rogue. BUT there are also a lot of speedruns and parse runs starting to stack warriors. that way they can choose which fights to use CDs on and really just obliterate the parsing system entirely. Maybe the true villain is wracraftlogs.. as for level 60 runes, I think there's still a lot of potential to add variety and interest beyond..please god no..more flat damage runes for war. i also think encounter design could be the best fix for any balance issues. after all like you said, if warriors get nerfed players will just move to rogue etc
Your take is bad imo but I respect your opinion. You sacrifice so many qualify of life things so you can do more damage in raid. Raid isn’t all of wow. Wc logs are inflated. Make a warrior, main a warrior, and come back and tell the community how it feels to play warrior. You can’t normalize rage with warrior without totally breaking the class. The closest thing they’ve done to normalize warrior is the new arms spec. Hunters literally have it all. Great raid dps, great at pvp, amazing quality of life.
@@NOHITJEROME im so glad someone with an actual IQ put you in your place. The dumb ass developers for SoD keep listening to all these fucking youtubers for feedback and is beyond stupid. Jerome you have such a heavy bias that you shouldn't honestly provide feedback or strats for this game. I've seen you on other podcast shit on paladins all phase 1 calling them broken when they were in a good spot. Two phases go by and no one wants to talk about shamans because everyone is playing one, including the devs. People are quitting SoD now for a reason and its because of piss poor development. This season started off amazing and now we have all these wannabe streamers / youtubers crying about classes that aren't even OP , they just suck and can't beat them even when they play a broken class. Now you want warriors to be nerfd? bro they are by far the worst in PvP and only acceptable in raids because they stack well with world buffs / gear . You and Sarthe are a fucking joke and shitty gamers. The only thing that needs to happen right now is a shaman nerf.
If a class is either in a state of being underpowered(without WB's), or completely broken(with WB's), then it is obviously something wrong with the design. I don't give a fuck _why_ a Warrior beat me by 30%, because if I did my job perfectly, he shouldn't, the _why_ part is irrelevant. The ideal solution should be to make warriors stronger on the low end but weaker at the high end, and normalizing rage seems to be a pretty decent way of doing that imo. *It's very important to remember that 80% of Warrior players NEVER reaches this end game OP state, and thus will always be stuck with the underpowered version.* So having the OP end game state as a counter balance to the early game UP warriors is a terrible way of balancing it, because it's not a transition most players will make.
yooo thank you lol. i like kicking a lot, the gnomes just happen to be in the way. how do you feel about balancing right now ichigo? is it working out for you?
Yeah the need to leave warrior alone, the only thing theyre good at is raid. Normalizing rage wouldnt make crappy geared warrios any better btw it would just make better geared warriors that put in the work worse.
@Yams42279 stop looking at 100%parse and start looking at 90 or 95% parses, only the best warriors perform like that and it's ONLY when recklessness is active. Warriors suck in pvp open world farming, let them have something.
@@claytongiampaolo7848 so youre saying since warrior is bad at farming then it should be twice as strong as every other class? even if they normalized rage warrior is still going to be #1 lets not kid ourselves. Do you really want to just have Sod be era and just have everyone reroll warrior for 60 cuz everything else will be bad in comparison?
@@claytongiampaolo7848 i dont care what classes are at the top but if the top class is doing 2x damage of classes in middle of the pack then clearly something needs to be done. We are halfway through 50 phase and we are already seeing the warrior stacking and people rerolling warrior in anticipation of them being god tier compared to everything else
that's true you need full WB and consumes. on my hunter i did manage a run this week where I didn't lose wbs at least. feels like that will be more common in the future. though warriors are far harder to keep buffs on than ranged hunters
thanks a lot yildizusuf, i really appreciate you saying that. how do you feel about the balance issues right now? are they minor to you or are they causing any problems?
@@NOHITJEROME paladin changes are great in my opinion as ally. Boomkin buffs are a bit meh I main boomie and it is not fun to play right now for PvE Andys
Okay here is the issue. They wanted to make everyone as strong as warriors but they also buffed warriors so they have to super buff everyone else. This makes no sense. There were plenting of things they could have changed for warrior to make the class more interesting with runes while also not buffing their base game damage. So now were in a situation where everyone is doing more than nax level dps at level 50. The game was never made for this kind of damage and it really shows. It honestly makes me wonder if blizzard actually thought any of this through even on a basic level. Also the game design of classic will always lend itself to class stacking. When boss fights are so easy a potato could handle them there is never a reason to diversify. Everyone is upset about warriors but warriors aren't the issue. You can and always will have a class that is top, this is true in retail but they don't have this problem. Easy raids are the problem here. You need boss mechanics and functions that force diverse raid comps while also having reasonable dps balance. Blizzard is doing neither of these things. So you have to ask yourself, do you want classic style easy boss zug zug, or do you want a diverse class stack?
Hi fatesmaster, I completely agree with your points. They buffed everyone to keep pace with war but then they buffed war so now they are overbuffing everyone even more. So now you get things like shamans/paladins generating infinite mana for the raid to try to entice people to bring more class diversity. I don't know if the endgame was fully thought out, it does seem like a herculean task to have planned all of this perfectly from the beginning. Might be a case where the train tracks are being built as the train is coming. As for your class stacking points, you are right that warriors aren't the issue. The easy raid point is exactly what I wanted to say in my original edit, the problem is: people don't really like hard raids. So you have to somehow keep the raids "easy" while also rewarding support roles. That's where fights like atalai defenders feel like the model. It's not at all impossible to clear that boss without hunters/priests, but they make it a far more enjoyable experience. I think we all want classic style zug zug. We just want to not feel completely irrelevant after the first week of progression. I shouldn't have to abandon any alt that isn't a warrior, hunter or shaman right now
@@NOHITJEROME Very true on all counts. And my guild and I also want classic zug raids. We are mostly made up of mythic raiders that have been playing together for many years now. So we cleared ST after the first round of nerfs and were only inside for about 4 hours ish that first week. We play classic for the zug not challenge. But if we don't want stacking of whatever class is best there needs to be a reason to have multiples of every class in the raid especially in 40 man. A big part of that issue is giving utility and damage to everyone. I'm maining a shaman currently enhance, and when I started sod in phase 1 I was expecting them to make the class function for enhance but that I would still be there mostly for buffs. I never expected nor wanted to be near the top when I picked shaman, I new what I was getting into. Or at least I thought I did. I did not expect them to copy paste the current retail enhance dps rotation into SoD, cause thats all they did, and then they gave us sham rage. Classes shouldn't be given buffs from other classes like hunters with kings and druids with Wind fury. Each class needs to bring a unique buff or set of buffs that then buffs others. Like class X bufs class y and class y buffs class z and class z buffs class x. This should be contained within groups to. As few raid wide buffs as possible. creating natural synergy inside groups. This way warrios can still do 3k dps but only if they have the right group and you would only want 1 warrior per group. Casters and healers would need similar setups and same with the tank group. Its hard but making a good game is never easy.
Hunters and rogues still hit like trucks though, and hurt casters who already deal with classic pushback it's even worse, cause when they do get a cast off it does nothing.
Blizzard needs to actually use armor as a tuning knob. They showed us what was possible in Phase 2, but they used bad armor amounts, normal on the first 2 bosses and extreme on the final 4 bosses. Overall the dps was fairly balanced but individual bosses were wildly unbalanced. If they smartly tune armor all these overperforming melee will come into balance with the casters. Rage normalization is a bad idea. Classic is not designed for it.
fully agree maxvla. armor should be the tuning knob. gnomeregan had so many good ideas that were not 100% fully cooked but I think they should be brought back. to me it'd be as simple as making a few bosses melee favored (lower armor) and a few bosses caster favored (higher armor) and all of a sudden you'd have pretty good class diversity. As for rage normalization, the feedback I've seen seems to agree with what you are saying. it just wouldn't feel like classic.
Dunno, that opens the door to even more class stacking shenanigans, either boss by boss or something dumb like having majority dps be druid/shaman and swap specs between phys/spell. Kinda sounds cool actually
There is no issue with warriors being majority of your raids DPS and the most popular class in classic because it brought significantly more benefits than negatives. - More tanks while leveling - Second, third, fourth person on threat being a warrior during a raid means the boss turns around and hits someone they live, can put a shield on and start tanking instead of it being a caster and the boss running to Narnia potentially causing positioning issues - More people using Rage or Energy in your raid makes your raid go faster by default even in normal guilds - Highly rewarding playstyle, few classes in WoW classic or MMOs of the era this games client was made actually scale with skill like a warrior does
yooo pickupsticks, I definitely should factor in the fact that there are barely any tanks in classic historically and it's great to have more of the. and there really is nothing cooler in wow than having a near wipe but your blasting fury warrior put on a shield to save the raid. but the last 2 points - those are the problems. rage/energy based classes being the meta means bringing mana users actually hurts your clear speed and makes everyone have a worse experience. and the scaling of warriors means everyone else feels terrible getting +10 caster damage while warriors get 50-100 dps increases with some gear
@@NOHITJEROME They just need more mana battery options, a naxx geared mage in classic could do some serious damage but had to hold back because of mana and imo damage for SoD should of always been based around what a warrior could do in classic but no higher, going higher is causing the pvp issues
@@pickupsticks3942 yeah the idea should have been to keep warrior the same (while adding some fan favorite abilities ie war banner) and then buff everyone else in interesting ways that keep class identity mostly intact. seems things have gone too far
yeah I'm seeing that response constantly,. nobody wants rage normalization. was it added in a retail expansion? i don't remember any complaints in wrath or tbc about it
Do we really need to fix the problem. Is it really a problem if after they have 1 or 2 of the utility classes, the 1% fill their raid with warriors. Most guilds won't do that and will bring a mix of dps classes as long as they somewhat compete.
Oh yeah, hopefully, they won't let that happen. What I was trying to say was a long as they compete on, say a 95th percentile, I think it's fine. Also, utility classes should be fine with not being top of the meters. They just need to make sure what they bring is more valuable than another dps
Why not just give specs utility that is too hard to pass up. The whole mana thing with shamans and paladins is a little much, but there's a bunch of ways you could give specs utility that actually makes up for damage. You could have windfury grant you an extra swing on top of the ones it gives. Just think of unique buffs/debuffs that inc damage in different ways and give the them to a bunch of classes.
agreed, there should be utility that is individual or party wide that makes it hard to pass up certain specs and classes. right now there isn't really a point in bringing say a second rogue or priest because you already have all the utility covered. at least that's how it feels to me glitchmodulator
Don't look at top 1% maybe? Doesn't matter what version of wow you play. Top speed clearing and parsing guilds will ALWAYS class stack. Nerf warriors and then they will just stack hunters.... If you don't want to play in that environment, don't. People pushing for warrior nerfs just dumb. The whole ethos of this season was to buff others up. Not bring warriors down into the gutter. I parsed 99s on my warrior phase one 90s phase 2 and 3 (in charge of recruitment raid in p2/3) all while not being in a parsing guild. We don't class stack or do anything gimmicky. Just the Bois having fun. Look at top 95 maybe, which will give a better picture. Hell even if you're not parsing you can still clear the raid with a sub optimal setup fairly easily. If you don't want to parse or be in a parsing guild, then just don't lol.
Hi dallon first of all cute cat second I agree the warrior concerns right now are based around 99 parsing. But what about next phase? P4 will be even more warrior dominated. If they bring other classes to warrior level we will have huge power creep, mc would be boring
My main is a Warrior, been grinding hard since phase 1. It felt like warriors always lost 1v1s and only felt good with team mates in PvP. We were told "dont worry how bad your class is now, you scale late game". now that the late game is practically here and the scaling is working, i dont think its fair to nerf warriros after 1 month of S tier, when it felt like our class was the worst for months and months before.
fair point richderk, you had to deal with a very rough p2. but man warriors are ALREADY the kings in p3 and in p4 it just feels like things are only going to get more intense. and a lot of people would argue the endgame matters a lot more than say..p2 gnomeregan
This ye not s tier warrior yet. That comes at level 60 pre bid and beyond. Warrior has always been shit alone in Wpvp due to the simple hit and get hit nature of the class.
Buffs ranged hunter when they are already top 4 dps - Reason? Well they dont want all hunters to go the absolute top dps aka melee hunter Cant wait for Frost mages to also get free frostfirebolt casts cus they dont want all mages to be fire :)
ya i don't entirely get the ranged hunter buffs, ranged hunter happens to be one of the only roles you WANT with the warrior / physical based comps that are becoming the meta. so it wasn't like they were going to have a lot of trouble finding a role. as a hunter myself at first I loved the changes but they really do feel unnecessary looking back..
Warrios need their scaling to be crippled. I know no warrior player wants to hear it, but its not classic. Its SoD. Shake up the meta big time. Im a fire mage and even with 50 crit in raids my class sucks ( compared to a warr ) unless i have the luckiest 1 minute crit chain. Im okay with beeing middle of the pack. Just give everyone 15%-30% more damage and dont buff warriors at all, just normalize their rage or something.
I have to agree Roxx, it doesn't seem like warrior is going to get..worse..next phase. So what other option is there other than a nerf? Mages are getting screwed right now, really all casters. It's cool to me if warriors are #1 at the end of p4 but it feels crazy to have them be bis p3-p4 and beyond. Though rage normalization seems like a bridge too far for pretty much every war, they really don't want it roxx
The problem isn't Blizzard - it's us. This Min/Maxing culture is extremely toxic and against the true culture of the game. It's time to ban Warcraft logs.
not wrong sniperdps. we got older and adults want to accomplish things (quickly) and be good at things they spend time at and they have limited time. it means kicking all the non-meta classes so you can perform better. the game would probably be better without wcl. only issue is..what other endgame is left without it?
@@NOHITJEROME 1) Better PVP events. 2) Make the raids actually hard. Like the way the were in week 1. Make it so that it takes 5-6 attempts for most guilds before they clear the thing. But the silly little, 'drink an elixir of coalescent regret so you can squeeze in that last 3 dps' is just... stupid...
Warriors have been complaining about this since launch. What did blizzard think when they gave only stacking %dmg runes to warrior. We asked for fun or utility runes instead but again in p3 we got 10% crit dmg runes and every other rune was trash.
ya my priest gets 2 new pets..new cool abiltiies liike voidzone and mindsear. you guys really got screwed just getting pure dps runes because your rotation isn't that different and now you are just the poster child for classes doing too much damage lol
@@NOHITJEROME well, I play a dps warlock, Lake of Fire nerf really hurt us, and ironically if they undid that change (like they did with ranged hunters explosive and chimera shots) warlocks wouldn’t be looking at too many issues. I’d like to say I raid at a high-ish lvl (I’m not a logs nerd so idk how to like dissect every aspect of a fight) Rularuu Wild Growth US. And the only complaint I have over all is the raid is a joke too soon. Like AQ40 eventually became a joke but day 1 it was a nightmare (in a good way) and I think they’ve lost that pacing
The min-maxing attitude is what is ruining the game you’re supposed to have fun it is an mmoRPG gotta do some role-playing instead of trying to be the guy with the bigfest e-peen swinging around during raid time
i think it's because we got older and adults want to minmax their time, they don't want to go into a raid and fail for 4 hours so it turns into minmax city
You are missing the biggest reason people aren’t class stacking. Loot distribution, we get way less loot in ST than we did in gnomes. I see pugs and almost every recruiting guild building for loot distribution not max dps.
that's a fair point shawn, my understanding is that 100% of a longtime group should have acquired tier by now if it's getting given out fairly each week. might be off on that math though. loot distribution is definitely a factor I didn't fully consider. but once players do get more gear in the next weeks the problems are going to start to become more prevalent imo
Shaman does way more dps compared to pally and still offers more support... And now with the pvp change they are even more busted than before. Blizzard reduced damage but they never nerfed healing... So in turn a enhancement shaman with maelstrom can fully heal themselves for FREE with the procs every couple seconds and all of that hp they heal needs to be dealt again in damage at reduced 30% rate. Blizzard is absolutely blind with shamans....and seal twisting is garbage with how fast our weapons are as ret. In pvp it's decent if you run a divine storm build, although it's a loss in dps for pve.. Waste of globals. I would much rather have free instant cast full heals
yeah sham is broken i won't lie. ele right now is doing 1k+ dps in pve and dominating pvp. and tank shamans are still the only option. i'm just jealous that paladins give so much mana back now. i want horde to be on top, i have some bias there no doubt..
@@NOHITJEROME ya if anyone liked Ret paladins... they have a stigma associated with them unlike shamans which are praised by everyone on the horde knowing they are op. Shamans have two DPS specs with one being far superior why the hell would you play ele for pve anyways if you were worried about DPS. Ele sham has always been the chad of PVP in classic wow. Not like the mana is even needed if your kill times are fast enough like they are now anyways
If this iteration of WoW is seasonal as in the title "SoD" it's ok, next season will be better considering all the data they accumulated Project Epoch seems to have found a good formula even proposing Contracts to level with an XP debuff to get better rewards for the most patient players at 60. They really should consider and soak what this private server is doing.
definitely a "next season can only get better" situation. curious about the project epoch comparison. so you can choose modifiers to your gameplay to alter rewards at max level? that feels like it would really open up alt gameplay. like sure I'll rush my main to 60. but then being rewarded for taking subsequent alts a lot slower would be awesome
@@NOHITJEROME Yeah even after post buff the disparity in classes is pretty large, the group of ele spriest and boomkin all bottom 3, I guess this coming Tuesday will be better to see on wcl
i love that take, group wide buffs make the most sense. giving everyone something they can bring to the table, rewarding class diversity, but not making it so you need 1 of every single spec in the game.
pb34r you are not wrong, but it happened in the guild i'm in, and i've seen it happen in other guilds. if you are in a parse or speedrun guild, they demand optimal raid comps. hell even my priest will probably be benched eventually. top speedruns are double shaman healer for some reason
I know this is a day or two late of my comments but I been in the trenches this past week during PVP Jerome. The 1x thing I will say since I represent the brotherhood of light for the Paladins ☀ on my end, along with my community. Ret's over the week with the Aura debuff felt pretty bad. I also compared the mana returns online from Shamans-Paladins, and our rates were down as low as 11-13 mana back from a Paladin from SoM on a low end. Ret's also within PVP after 2x days of doing Arathi Basin with multiple L's 😆our damage felt like most people are saying, "a wet noodle". I think Reck spec and Shockadin was better but not by a massive way. Most classes in the bg's felt like mini raid bosses with endless healing. I do like that warriors felt good though from the feedback I saw. Overall, I just wanted to leave my 2 cents here fam, much luv and great video 🔒
well you play it and i just look at it (as i'm horde) so I have to listen. the pvp nerf ret got unnecessarily due to the damage reduction was an amazing example of why i don't want to be a game dev lol. unintended consequences. as for raiding man from over here it feels like you just get infinite mana. i just hate shamans by comparison and that's having 4-5 of them in every raid. as for shockadin, there's nothing worse on this earth than trying to play that spec vs tanky / resilient classes taking 50% reduced damage. tbc shockadin week one? most fun spec in the game. by the end of sunwell? miserable
It's never going to be balaned. Warriors suck at PVP, they suck at open world farming, they kinda suck at tanking (compared to likes of warlocks). PVE dmg is the only thing they have going for them. If you put them on par with everyone else there will be 0 reasons to play a warrior since everything outside of raids is straight up worse as a warrior.
pretty much true but should they be doing 500 more dps than everyone else? in p4 it'll be 1k+. maybe the runes can be slightly tweaked at the very least
Let me make this simple: The 50% PvP dmg reduction change is not creating more balance, it is doing the opposite. The 50% change isnt happening in a vacuum, this is a game with an action economy. There is only so much you can do in a certain timeframe, like a GCD. Previously the change I could do a "counteroneshot". Yes that hunter or his BW buffed pet were gonna kill me, but my full dotline is gonna spell certain doom for him 5-8 seconds later. It wasnt perfect, but it was largely fine. Furthermore the goal of this games balance was never to be balanced around 1v1 PvP, yet that is what they are trying here. This is so asinine and stupid, it boggles my mind. The more frustrating PvP experiences arent 1v1s, quite the opposite. It is events like STV or gank raids of 50s camping early 40s at Ashenvale Incursions. Blizzard is directly and obviouslly buffing the gank meta and giving the most toxic and vile among its players a gift served on a plater. What good is a 50% less dmg taken change when 8 hunters multishot in my general direction? Previously I just died and now I just die the same in the exact same timeframe. There is no difference of dying to 3 or 5 out of 8 multishots in one global. Except now there is no longer any chance to effectively counter or at least fight back to some degree. If you dont believe me, try playing Wintergrasp against a vastly superior number of enemies. You can have 10 stacks of 18% more health, more health regen, more healing recieved and more dmg done (each!) and yet you will loose each and every time.
50% damage reduction is really weird right now. i wonder if they did it to buff melee. it hasn't fixed any of the camping or griefing like you said at all. it doesn't resolve really anything. i'm not entirely sure what the point of the reduction was. as a healer i like it but as a dps player i completely understand hating it. in the end you can have as much hp and dmg reduction as you want but 10 hunters will win any day lol
This entire phase is just a gold grind since my class only got an increase of about 200dps when a few others got 1500 dps, very poor and not worth my time.
yeahhhh that happened to casters. it does feel bad having to get sandstorm/decay on a non warrior/rogue/shaman imo. on hunter it seems like a really small dps increase to get decay but i believe i have to get it lol
Balance for balance to be fixed it must first be messured and we or the gammers has been pumping and logs are showing and so blizzard sees our progress and is doing there all to balance the damage but damage will always creep up to surprise all of us. This video was a refresher to what was and will eventually be something we all look back at in memory of all of our collaboration to one day come to the end to what can be close to what balance stands for but were still pumping and finding ways to break the game. I have hope in numbers and logs and in blizzard seeing the logs and keep tweeking the math to one day come at a end point where every class feels so dam good to play.
Hi angelmusicvideos, you are right that we need more data, blizzard should wait and not overreact and panic nerf warriors. But in fairness you play a tank shaman. Blizzard overturned them and nerfed them really fast. Don’t you think it’s fair to do the same to warriors?
I'll never understand the people that play SOD like described in this video. I never experienced ppl caring what class or spec you are. Come in do mechanics and know your rotation. There is no reason to be as serious as described here. Unless you're the 1% best player / guild. All 99% other ppl should just play for fun. The game is not hard in any way.
there's this level to pushing things to the limit that adds to the experience at some point. or maybe some of us are trying to make up for not doing world firsts and server firsts back in the day as kids. in the end it probably would be more fun to just enjoy the game instead
Absolute dog water cat piss phase 4 prison. That is the only thing phase 3 should be remember as. An absolute disgusting, imbalanced, empty, contentless, waste of a phase that turned into the worst prison before level 60 imaginable. At least Swamp of Sorrows is beautiful to look at.
I personally prefer the 20 mans. Because, while the top 1% guilds are class stacking, the other 99% aren’t. So it makes it easier for the average player of any class to be able to be fit into a run. Though I do agree they should incentivize diversity for everyone. And I like your suggestions.
Hi Justin, thanks for your take. You have been very pro-guild and community. Do you think 20 man’s are better for longtime guilds? To me 20 man means a lot of benched guildies. But I’ve never had much success filling 40s so it’s a hard problem to solve
Warriors got screwed in Phase 1 and Phase 2. And the first time they come online everyone crys even though they didn't get good runes or any special abilities or buffs nothing. like every other class in the game and they sat back and watched every other class skyrocketing for phases and phases. Honestly if they touch warrior in any way of nerfing it 50% of the community is leaving. And warriors are almost completely useless by themselves besides in a raid setting with full consum😂 it seems like every other Clash should stop crying and let the game play out
p1/p2 warriors were definitely not that much of a problem (or even v ery good) but i think it comes down to war being THIS good in p3 already. we have another 6-8 months of sod coming and more and more warrior dominance. and you are 100% right that people will quit if they nerf wars..so blizz is stuck. think they can only look to fix things by having a mix of ranged and melee favored bosses. like combining a good melee boss with thermaplugg in the same raid. what do you think about that?
One of the unintended consequences of extremely fast leveling seems to be people jumping on the bandwagon for the top dps classes. Our raid used to be varied, but now we have majority hunters, warriors, and shamans. Our mages all jumped ship. On the topic of rage normalization, i'd rather not see it. I'd rather see others brought up to their level somewhat, even if they are slightly behind.
yooo that's something I hadn't considered daniel. by making leveling way easier you now have 1) an excuse from blizzard "it's so easy to level..if your class isn't being brought just reroll" and 2) way more players leveling flavor of the month classes (or even just converting them from alts into mains) as for rage normalization, I agree, it's just anti-classic. I think they can just go the thermaplugg route and have some fights (not all..) in each new raid reward ranged dps too
Dual spec breaks some of your suggestions, like a raid with half melee/half range focus, hunters,druids,shamans just instantly become dps meta for sweaty guilds because they can swap between melee/range specs with 1 talent swap and 1 item rack macro, especially if they make pvp/faction sets bis again
Warrior is dogshit in every aspect of the game except with world buffs AND in a raid , i think rage nornalization is a pretty bad way of going about it and will probly kill the class , either make recklessness a 5min CD for the next 5 casts Or make it like a lust raid wide 5 second crits for every1 with an exhaust debuff and can only be used once per boss
it's fair mikenurney to say that, war relies heavily on WB compared to classes like shamans right now, even rogues. i think everyone is in agreement with no rage normalization, never seen more negativity towards an idea lol
Rage normalisation= all warriors nerfed to the ground its something that should be done in p1 not now. Oh ye warrior main talking here. But rly , its like get hunters focus insted of mana, its so big change that will change evrything and then all ppl will be like where all warriors at? We need some shouts and rally. Lmao
Making fights so you need specific classes is good for a dev team with working brains, but not for the sod dev team. They literally made only priests mandatory since p1. So making the best healer in the game needed for dispels which only priests could do before p3 and now that paladins can put in bosses to shackle or offensive dispels which paladins can’t do is just the worst decision possible. They should please take their hands of mechanics that makes you need specific classes because it will result in a disaster.
yeah making the fights better with a variety of classes is the most logical way to fix these issues and would be a huge undertaking when designing the fights. but i see your point - i was forced to dispel on jammaln and ogom while our raid was wiping because priests happen to be the best dispellers. it was like giving me an extra bit of job security that i didn't want or need
yo i get that take stehley but rogues are next, if you guys aren't doing 95%+ as much as wars wouldn't people want to bring more wars? though to be fair rogue is more consistent and reliable by far. more trustworthy for any group than a random war
Right now we deserve it, it's hardest class to find raid still, it's most boring of them all, every class got smt unique, warriors are not diff than in vanilla right now it's a problem for me. For end game warriors should scale like nobody, problem of this phase is also about bis loot being already standard for warriors raiding from 1st week
as players realize how good warriors are i think it wil lbe easier and easier to find groups. i fully do agree that the loot was a big problem. warriors got their full bis and went to 2k dps. casters got upgrades and went up 100 dps lol
I would rather we have less group buffs rather than more. Those group buffs are the only way to guarantee certain classes get brought in sweaty guilds, but in our guild, it just makes my life harder to make sure everyone has the appropriate buffs. Windfury is awesome, but now all melee need to have it. Then they add melee hunter, so those limited spots were in even greater competition. I prefer there to be less group buffs.
The group buffs are definitely a WOTLK style design and I don't like the idea of needing 1 of every spec just to complete the raid. But how do you ensure that there is diversity in classes being brought to the raid? If there aren't necessary buffs and debuffs, how do you stop there from being 14 warriors in a speedrun/parse run?
@@NOHITJEROMEdefinitely don’t have a great answer. I personally would say that less group buffs and class balancing around PvE is all SoD devs should worry about. My concern with group buffs is that making raids will become too difficult. Guilds are already folding because coordinating 20 people is too difficult, relative to 10 mans. This trend will continue each time raid size increases. I think blizzard knows that the core of wow is guilds, but they sometimes focus too much on individual experience and not enough on group. There are plenty of groups of people where 1-2 people do the lion share of the organizing and raid prep. The harder it is to do that organizing and raid prep, the more likely those people are to quit. If those 1-2 people quit, the other 18 will likely quit. So while individual grumblings might cause a singular person to quit, making raids harder to put together will make entire groups of people quit.
Im playing feral cat and ret paladin, im constantly in the lowest part of the dps in the raids, imo they should be lowering the damage of the top classes, not buff the ones that suck, raid fights last 1-2 minutes ... Its too quick and easy.
at least feral is desirable and brings good things to the table. problem with nerfing overpowered classes i feel like is that you make the classes feel worse. people hate losing something they had before
I am 100% bias, but would suck to normalize rage for warriors. I would rather have them nerf the shit out of deep wounds. It shouldn't be 30% of our dmg imo.
yeah im not seeing a single player in favor of rage normalization. seems like DW nerf is the only way. just hope it doesn't cause too many warriors to quit
I wonder if a cap was set on how many of one class was allowed in a raid would help. With how video games are today even if classes were very well balance I feel the class that does 5-10% more than average would still be stacked.
i like the creative solution. something needs to be done, everyone seems to agree it shouldn't be rage normalization. running out of ideas over here lol
They dont have the knowledg to rework warrior the best designed class in classic... They will ruin it... They should focus on other classes to bring them in line.. And warrior only have pve... They are the worst in open world and in pvp... And have the highest skill requ. To pump...dont balance around the 0.1% of players if u look even at 95% logs warrior are not on 1. Not even in the 99%... So where is the problem?? Let warrioes be good at atleast one thing... And dont forget warrior didnt goodnin p2 so why are ppl cry now? Last phase it took me always 1-2 hours to finde a raid spot... Only reason was warriors only get the raid spot if u tank or if the class is one of the best dps specs.. Every other class beside rogues and warrior bring something to raid... Warrior and rogues only dmg... So they have to perform or dont get the spot...
I agree napster touching warrior is a bad idea but if you keep buffing everyone else to bring them in line aren't you trivializing the content? and if everyone does the same damage as wars then you kill the bosses so fast that you don't actually need any healers or support anymore. and i do agree with your take about war/rogue not having anything to bring to the raid except damage. but i think the warrior example could swap in any other class and the outcome would be the same. if warlocks are #1 damage then everyone would be rushing to stack warlocks.
Season of enh schamans it totally destoys pvp. Gave em freedom cleans all my shit and now with the dmg reduction in pvp the instant mealstorm heals shine even more. Just give em bubble and bop.
ya i would have disagreed with you dennis but when I play bloodmoon on my (horde) priest my god I hate enhance shamans. just such a toxic concept - spam dispel spam dispel. it's not how..any other class plays. and frankly it's very unpleasant
warriors are fun for 2 hours a week during raid , the rest is a constant struggle to even do anything open world , why so much hate , charts are just in favour of warriors because of recklessness , so they win dmg on fights every 30 min , and lose to shamans and hunters on the rest
rage normailzation completely ruins warrior. It essentially gives warrior energy, couldnt ever play warrior again after they ruined rage, and it had been my main since vanilla
Having to check the box on every class's buff is just as annoying as class stacking. The best they can do is try to normalize damage, implement different damage profiles on classes and structure the raids so one class won't be king on most fights.
that's true matt, i didn't want to advocate for that too hard. wotlk is annoying in some ways due to the feeling of box checking for raid comps. (though I did enjoy wrath) I think all your solutions make sense. structuring the raid so everyone contributes something seems like a winning idea
@@NOHITJEROME Thanks for the reply Jerome, I appreciate you coming up with nuanced and unique ideas to promote raid comp flexibility. I am hoping at 60 that the tier sets will help promote class diversity. You won't want to miss out on a rogue and let that tier piece go to waste, but at the same time the hard core guilds will still class stack for speed runs and parsing but that is a trade off they will have to make.
As a warrior main, I know for a fact a change to rage would end my SOD playing. Everyone who plays warrior just likes how rage plays and you can't look at the top 1% of warriors imo. Other classes do a lot better with the average player. OG Vanilla warrior, Nos, Elysium and a few others warrior...classic warrior, som warrior and no sod warrior. You are either a warrior main or you arent lol...even in classic when EVERYONE knew warrior is the tops you still had class diversity because people liked their class... Mages, hunters rogues and so on knew they didnt have warrior dps but they played what they liked. Each refresh of Vanilla though gets more sweaty for parsing, optimal raid comp and speed... If you are not a good class reroll if ya wanna raid or choose pug life.
Hi Paul, I respect your thoughts on warrior rage normalization. It does appear to be universally unpopular for classic players. And you do make a valid point that plenty of players still pick hunter, mage, Druid etc in versions of the game where we know warrior will be the best. But wasn’t Sod designed for more balance? It feels like warrior will be the only dps choice in p4
@@NOHITJEROME I am all for balance but don't nerf classes. Feels bad. Buff everyone to Enhance shaman level of dps. The devs are not making big swings at balance like they should. Id rather seem em over buff a class for a week then tone em back down. Just turn the dial up on coefficients and make everyone strong.
the big problem with 10 to 20 is that you really don't bring 2 homunculi, you don't bring 2 mark of the wild characters, i guess you bring 2 mages due to the nature of their rotations but otherwise you would only need one. why double up on any buff or debuff from 10-20man when you can just bring 1?
I believe that raiding needs much harder. If u have guild you do your first clear the first week of season and since that... it is just parse run for most ppl. All melee classes got new weapons which boos them a lot and since caster dmg doesn't scale with intellect, there's no real dmg upgrade for them except couple SP. This season is so bad overally, even as rogue there is almost no point for me to grind anything except gold for consumable and world buffs. I got my gear from last season and from incursion, grinded weapon from pvp, did some maraudon runs and since that, all item give me like 10dps upgrade max, sometimes not even 5dps. Which is nothing compere to how much dmg i got from consumable and world buffs. Already half ppl in my guild is not playing... it just about spending golds for consumable and hunting parses.
yooo marek it's definitely a way to solve the class stacking issues. the second the raid becomes easy it becomes all about parsing/speedrunning. if the raid is hard everyone keeps their healers, they keep their support much longer. as for the sc aling, it definitely feels bad for casters by comparison because they gain only a few dps from a new weapon. and warriors gain 50-100 dps in some cases. this phase is definitely all about goldmaking and parses. some peoples idea of a dream but others idea of a nightmare. i'm somewhere in the middle over here. do you think you'll end up giving sod another shot at 60? or are you calling it quits for good
@@NOHITJEROME even if i say no, i know i will try it 😀 but i really hope that phase 4will be different... I mean i was looking forward to phase 3 especially as rogue player with all the new op runes. I was planing with our guildes to speed run 40-50, some of them spend hours of getting ready there questlogs, so we can do raid the first reset. But then the P3 come and after 10hours of incursion I hade already two my chars at 50with pre bis gear, 800g and I was like thats super cool... but now i think the incursions were big mistake. The 40-50journey was gone, no relationship with my chars created or with my guildes, its like retail when u have 10chars, 8of them is boosted as u get boost with every expension and u even dont remember the character names... I really hope that they will do something different in P4 and raiding will be at least wotlk difficulty. Otherwise I dont see anybody playing it for more than month. This week I had 95%+ parses with not even close to bis gear, just cos I was full buffed the whole raid and ignored most of the mechanic, last week i died at second boss cos weak healing and I could go pretty much offline as there is no point to go raid with no word buffs cos u can not get more than 60-70% parses
@@NOHITJEROME the 50% nerf came and went, you didn’t miss much - it was bad.. I think with more stam gear sets etc people can bulk up and things at 60 will hopefully balance out more in PvP. Classic has always had squish potential. Addons like item rack helps for killing specific classes in duels where certain stats are more appropriate, depending.
@@johnnny5veeoxx yeah it seems like the 50% reduction didn't work out. the thing is, classic is always rock paper scissors. so i haven't minded the one shots so much. if you run full shadow resistance gear vs a shadow priest you are 100% going to beat them in a fight. or at least you'll have a chance
Right, on my balance druid I had armor sets v rogue and war,def+stam w some caster bis inbetween, soul link lock lots of magical resistance penetration, disc priest some melee stuff because oom pressure switch cat, vs mage full caster set, etc. Took a hit on my bags but it worked! Maybe if it was more like 20% reduction it would work.. but hopefully they just math the gear and spell stats correctly and it evens out better at 60. PvP hits more full circle with classes at level 60 anyways. Cheers!
Min maxing in SoD... Why not close the game and min max their love life, work life, plant seeds during this spring, min max their garden or personal health ? Naah they are just sitting there looking for the smallest glitch and get a dopamin surge from that instead... Just a big lol on those that waste so much time on something that will be deleted by the end of it's run.
@@NOHITJEROME True in a way ^,^ I tried that and too much fiddeling around with plants that are going their own natural path grow better than those that I "helped" and they end up taking more time to deliver fruit of the labor =/
i'm glad you were able to see the gnomes flying. hopefully they can fly straight back to their inns where they can log out and stop ganking me at the maradon portal
honest warrior is just strong if u have WF buff feral if u like to go more then MM hunter (shaman horde) so u dont just pick warriors, if u get from 20 people 2-3 is max
@@NOHITJEROME Far to much id u ask me. Warrior build alot dps in last 20% imagine 8 of it 😅, ther is skill cap on warrior if u look at meele hunter or rouge warrior is harder to play, still stick whit 2 to 3 whit 2 meele grupes. Best comp 2 Warrior Feral MM Hunter Shaman (if Horde). That 2x is more then enugh one range g and one tank and heal :)
Normalising rage is as big of a change as changing the resource to energy or mana. It would be terrible. Rage is only one of the reasons warriors scale well, and warriors are already almost at the 'infinite rage' portion of the curve, so it's not going to keep scaling exponentially. FLyrry scaling is also already maxed out, were at nearly AQ40 bis levels of crit in SoD. Warrior scaling right now is a problem due to too many flat % damage buffs and short fights meaning they have very high uptime, so that scales exponentially. Especially because this WOTLK version fo deep wounds scales super well and double dips from these flat% damage buffs. Nerf deep wounds and replace these flat damage runes with more interesting runes. Leave rage alone!
i see a lot of backlash to the idea of rage normalization. it seems to be the most unpopular direction blizard could go. i think it does make more sense to tweak the runes, and take a page from other classes that got new ways of playing, new pets, new abilities. (ie priest with 2 new pets) - maybe next phase other classes scale more off numbers while warriors get more variety to their playstyle
@@NOHITJEROME Agree completely! Giving warriors several flat % damage runes was always going to scale way too well (there's a reason death wish is already the best dps cooldown in the game). Not only was it poor planning, it's also boring design IMO. They should give warriors utility runes instead, like War Banner or Die by the Sword. For alternative throughput, maybe versions of Sudden Death or Blood and Thunder? All it takes i splaying a Cata warrior for five minutes to realise normalised rage is basically the same as Energy
@@krushingkobra utility runes would be sick. i would love love love to see war banner especially in pvp. warriors feel solow utility right now. and i think you are right. it would be cata war and i don't know anyone who wants that right now
Blizzard already said they aren't touching core function of talents. If warriors lose classic rage then we'll need the rage balance all the way to mop where it was finished to compensate. The hit and get hit nature of the class makes it to simple to change. All or nothing.
Micro-managing individual abilities and runes seems like such a headache. I don't understand why in SoD, where they have the excuse to change anything, don't they simply change stat scaling, which is like 80% of the actual rot beneath most issues?
hi highlaw, it's definitely a problem that all the runes are being balanced but the core problems ie warrior scaling are going to cause problems regardless of runes. i suppose the best lever to pull is the boss encounters themselves at this point. ie armor values on bosses
@@NOHITJEROME couple things to consider with warriors. 1st is fury/glad are the specs that will gain the most at 60, getting impale and Bloodthirst. Arms will take a dumpster. Making arms raid viable was a cool thing about sod. Also warrior is a group class. We are only good in groups, you don’t see people making any sort of warrior to world farm. So basing everything off from a 1 hour raid is risky. Playing my hunter, rogue and warlock much more fun solo.
sounds like you need to just play with better friends if you are going to be benched for the class you play, at the end of the day the fun is playing with friends how ever you want, as long as bosses are dying
fair play projectrealfilms. when you push for speed/performance that's when the benchings happen. playing with purely friends in a laid back environment sounds really good. but i've never had that before. i'm always trying to keep up with the joneses (for some reason)
I get that, somthing you have to prepare for i guess to get the absolute best you can, or level every class to have a back up 😆. Love your videos though! Very unique and enjoyable to watch
Wish i could even get into raids... everytime ive tried joining a pug they want logs... which i have none cuz no1 will let me raid. Guess i gotta lead my own or somethin.
@@andrewme7699 there are not a lot of monday or sunday raids. sunday afternoon or morning might be a thing. used to do a sunday morning gdkp. was NOT easy waking up for that lol
ya 0 people seem to want rage normalization. i think they will just have to rebalance some of the runes slightly or rework encounters in p4 so there is a mix of ranged/melee favored fights
Instead of the over-balancing, why couldn't they implement the aura/buff mentality from TFT or auto-chess games? Bring 3 warriors, 3/3 Battle shout. Don't need a 4th since 4/3 doesn't do anything. Only 1 Feral, 1/2 chance on Wild Strikes. Need a 2nd.
lol thank you taarruz. would like to see the barbershop as well. i have a lot of regrets with my character and am forced to show my helmet which is a pvp disadvantage
warrior is only massive damage with every world buff and consumable possible active, yes they scale the highest which means highest dos but they need everything to reach that. the higher skill/gold having characters will be doing this and yes it is the best but the AVERAGE WARRIOR is worse than the AVERAGE hunter/enh
thanks a lot deadmen, appreciate you saying that. i dont have anything to smoke but i can crush this coffee real quick lol. as for the video, how do you feel about the balancing in sod so far? has it been a noticeable issue for you or not a big deal?
Really liked your take on class utility versus damage, and I think this is spot-on. We've seen the same situation emerge in every iteration of Classic so far game - cover your necessary debuffs, then fill the rest of your slots with the most powerful classes. The result of that is that the most powerful classes are overplayed, and anyone not playing those classes will have a harder time finding a raiding guild. - Vanilla: warriors - TBC: hunters, warlocks, and especially shamans for b/h - WotlK: unholy DKs, then eventually mage stacking in ICC due to how much time they can shave off of H LK The same has been even more true of tanks. TBC saw serious guilds using a paladin and feral tank. WotLK was all paladins and, later, blood DKs. It's not that ferals and warriors couldn't do the content, but that they had major disadvantages comparatively. The DPS disparity isn't as much of an issue in 10-mans, but the tank disparity is, in my opinion, even worse when there are fewer raid cooldowns to supplement the tank's own cooldowns. And I've no doubt we'll see an explosion of UH DKs, Arms warriors, and Blood DK tanks in Cata for those same reasons.
hi stranger, appreciate you saying this. it's a fundamental design flaw with classic, though some players wouldn't consider it a flaw. the problem is really noticeable when the class has a boring or overpowered rotation, TBC warlock comes to mind. the thing is..wrath tried to fix the problem by sort of mandating certain classes for buffs/debuffs. but I don't feel like that's the ideal solution, having to look for an enhance shaman for example for 2 hours while the rest of your raid is sitting there. the best solution is to use the encounters to balance classes, like having a thermaplugg style fight to go with a dragon cleave (warrior) fight
hi qorda, they definitely had some really good ideas going into the phase. but the raid was overtuned and it felt like once they nerfed it all the ideas they had went away with the nerfs. if things had been tuned perfectly from the start combined with their ideas for fights like eranikus, atalai defenders, i think the raid would be considered incredible. it's just very much a loot pinata now
@@NOHITJEROMEit’s a loot piñata by people trying there hardest, stacking classes, full consumes, full guild runs, it’s a nightmare to even consider pugging, phase 4 will have even less people, we’ve already lost 50% on lone wolf
here's the thing: maybe the plot is impossible to keep a hold of. how do they resolve the core fundamental problems with class scaling? feels like you need a phd to keep up with how classes scale right now
@@NOHITJEROME Yeah and I don't blame them tbh. It is obviously too much for them to handle with constantly putting out fires and thus creating new ones, whilst working on P4 and beyond.
I really hope they don't nerf warriors. That would feel horrible especially when other classes are getting buffed up the wazoo like hunters, priests, shamans, druids, and rogues. This whole time they've been careful not to give us too much, other classes have far outplayed us in terms of cool new abilites and utility from runes. We have not been that that strong up until now in phase 3 where yeah, if the stars align then we can really pump for about 20 secs or so in a raid. Rage normalization is not classic wow and neither is SoD but that would be going too far in my opinion. For someone maining warr since launch, it would completely change the feel of playing warrior in a bad way, it's too late for that big of a change.
that's true luke. they did try no buffs in season of mastery and that didn't work out great either. i suppose future WBs will have to be more caster-oriented. but then that just means more power creep. do you think WBs are a problem or just a symptom of something bigger?
@@NOHITJEROME WB make it impossible to balance nearly anything in pve because it's literally playing two diff games with them or without them. The current ones and the expected level 60 ones all push the scaling classes through the roof with power and leave the less scaling classes even further behind. Higher armor values maybe helps?
6:25 E V E R Y R O G U E ALL PHASE 2 lol.... We literally had to pick-up Tanking...or die as a raiding class, we're lucky we even got the turn around we did this phase.
yeah rogues got completely screwed last phase. even now with much higher damage i fear they aren't in a massively better place. though i would always want to bring rogues to a pug because i feel like they are much more trustworthy and reliable than most specs
Just a word of advice, most guilds when they mapped out their phase 1 plans or formed and evolved in phase 1, knew that 20-40 man raiding would be coming long term. Mc is another 20 man and it could potentially require more for later end game. So take time this phase to expand your guild and make not only 1 20 man raid team but 2, so you’re ready for a 40 man change. In phase 1 many guilds ran 4 10 man raids for this reason, some even ran 8 or more. That way you’re ready for the future not just the current phase.
we were a small guild of typically the same 13ppl and alts raiding twice a lockout. for p3 we knew we needed more ppl so we and 2 other guilds with similar situation merged into 1 super guild and now we have 3 groups per lockout. we rarely pug a player unless 3-4 of us are out that night and it honestly feels like we've been raiding with the new ppl since p1 type of vibes.
Fair point Nils, and big guilds were designed around cliques and 10mans and now players are being left out. How does boomkin feel in this 20 man meta? Feel like you were playing it before and I’m curious
@@shart4211first of all I just realized this was you karashin - great yt name lmao - you make a good point about guilds planning in advance - but even with planning it is easy for someone to end up on the bench for example. You might run 1 rogue in each 10man but you don’t need 4 in mc
I mean without support classes warriors aren’t shit. Feral, hunter, shaman, warlock, even spriest (degrade) are necessary for a warrior to blast. Salute to all the support players who also crank in that role!
What balancing? There are classes that are putting out 30% more damage than the majority of the others and they haven’t touched them at all. You can really tell that the number of people working on SoD has at least halved since the season began. A lazy 50% damage nerf in PvP that did absolutely nothing to balance the classes that are gods, the classes that can’t remotely keep up with the burst of certain classes still can’t and they just made healing completely broken again like phase 1.
I think the problem is - nerfs feel really bad JT. So they keep buffing everyone else, buffing everyone else. But then that leads to the BIG problem which is that if everyone is strong, why bring any support or healers anymore? Ultimately you can buff boomkins and ele shamans all you want but if they do less damage than a war why would I bring one
thanks a lot kivrus, that means a lot. I assume you are maining hunter - what do you think about the recent hunter buffs? they feel amazing for me, but they might be too strong
@@NOHITJEROMEyep, maiming MM hunter from phase1. So I really like how ranged hunter looks in this phase. And new buffs just added more fun to the gameplay - for pve we now have nice rotation and finally I can see myself topping the meters. So yeah, damage, CC - really cool. I can see that it might be OP in PvP but it is only until rogue/enh will get to you in melee. And world farming is insane - I like to solo High Chief Winterfall, thx for you previous video :D
yooo necrosis i'm sorry to hear you unsubbed. if you aren't playing one of the bis classes right now I understand the frustration. but the endgame should still be a blast, revisiting all the old raids with new modifications and the 20man limit will be cool. do you think you might revisit the game for p4?
Like you said I think they should design encounters in the raids in a way that variety of classes will be needed. Half of the encounters should be melee friendly and half ranged friendly. Then we should have small things which will just make classes useful.
it's a really good point 田中太郎 - it's not about making razuvius fights where the raid is almost impossible without say 6 boomkins. it's about making the raid easier overall IF you bring a variety of classes. because right now the raid is just not easier bringing a variety of classes. it's easier with class stacking
Good points Jerome. I think they should add some mechanics to raid fights like hodir in wotlk that made casters blast. That seems like a better idea than doing absurd armor increases.
really love the idea zdubzz, hodir was a really nice damage check that meant your raid needed a few casters, they got to blast and have something to look forward to each raid. i always was so excited to blast on hodir. wouldn't take much to encourage variety and discourage 14 war comps
Fundamental Problem - Warriors complain when they aren't #1 damage. Despite SoD being "meta breaking" I'd love to see them as great tanks with middle of the pack dps. But warriors will rage.
Hm...I think there is something to the pre-conceived feelings about what classic should be playing a role in balancing. People want warriors at the top. It felt weird having warlocks and mages at the top didn't it? I think blizz wants it to feel like classic and part of classic is warriors. It's just..what's the point of all these new runes and new ways to play the game if we are just going to stack 15 of whatever the highest damage class is? Warriors aren't the only issue
utilizing “effective only in pvp” or “effective only in pve” would save much of this tuning hell.
hmmm hotlikesauce, on paper it's a great idea. guild wars 1 did that and it got confusing real fast. you start seeing patchnotes with 2 sets of changes per skill, you have 2 wowhead entries per ability, logistically it's a mess
Everyone acting like shamans didn't break pvp from the beginning. Spriests and boomkins are hardly the problem
@@Bubblehearth015druids were literally 1 shotting undergeared people with the press of a single button that cost 4 mana. Shamans couldn't hold a candle to that.
@@NOHITJEROME that's copium and you know it... lost ark mastered that easily. it's not hard, like at all
@@NOHITJEROME honestly, SoD has the stigma of being a “dad” game, so if grown individuals don’t know how to follow or read spell changes, that’s their problem.. at their very grown age.
much of SoD is influenced by retail, incursions being a reflection of “assaults” in dragonflight. retail uses the “only in pvp/pve” coding, why can’t SoD?
lastly, SoD devs.. are not GW1 devs lol. they’ve done great work in some areas, but much is left to be desired in SoD.
Warrior is only massive damage with all the world buffs and consumes. If you don't have all that hunter and shammy and rogue are much more damage. I disagree with calling for "nurf"/normalize rage for what is already one of the worst classes to level and one of the weaker classes without buffs. Yes if you have all the other buffing classes (feral druid, shammy and rogue and hunter) then yes a Warrior can do well but that should be "okay". Also people who look at parses often forget that Warriors who are top parses are blowing a 30 min cd to get it so their damage on the other boses isn't as high. Show me a log with a Warrior parsing 99% for all bosses at the end of any phase. It just isn't possible, while a shammy or hunter or mage can do this. Warriors arnt top damage done for over all damage. Last I looked it was two mages and a lot of hunters holding these spots. We will see what lvl 60 runes give us but any class could easily beat out Warrior. For example if mages had a way to regen mana on a faster CD. They could blow everyone out of the water in damage done. I have 5 lvl 50s who raid and leveling the Warriors was the worst by far when solo, the trade off is they scale well if their stars align. If people want to min max to the nth degree there will always be a "best class" remember shammy phase 2? Rage normalization will ruin the reason most people enjoy warrior. There is not a set rotation, if rage is normalized there will likely be just as boring a time playing warrior as most of the other classes. Rogues getting combo points from others made their class have some variety until it was infinite combo points in a Would buffed out raid and then their rotation is boring again. There can be a balance, hoping blizzard keeps trying to find it.
it's true that warriors rely entirely on WBs right now, to be fair high end guilds are starting to clear the raid without wipes, though it could still take a few more weeks for most guilds to get to that point. hunters/sham/rogue are all extremely strong too and are part of the problem, I don't want to single out warriors.
it's also definitely true that warriors are cd reliant and it's misleading for parses. it's more likely in an average group to see a hunter topping the meters right now or a rogue. BUT there are also a lot of speedruns and parse runs starting to stack warriors. that way they can choose which fights to use CDs on and really just obliterate the parsing system entirely. Maybe the true villain is wracraftlogs..
as for level 60 runes, I think there's still a lot of potential to add variety and interest beyond..please god no..more flat damage runes for war. i also think encounter design could be the best fix for any balance issues. after all like you said, if warriors get nerfed players will just move to rogue etc
Your take is bad imo but I respect your opinion. You sacrifice so many qualify of life things so you can do more damage in raid. Raid isn’t all of wow. Wc logs are inflated. Make a warrior, main a warrior, and come back and tell the community how it feels to play warrior. You can’t normalize rage with warrior without totally breaking the class. The closest thing they’ve done to normalize warrior is the new arms spec. Hunters literally have it all. Great raid dps, great at pvp, amazing quality of life.
@@NOHITJEROME im so glad someone with an actual IQ put you in your place. The dumb ass developers for SoD keep listening to all these fucking youtubers for feedback and is beyond stupid. Jerome you have such a heavy bias that you shouldn't honestly provide feedback or strats for this game. I've seen you on other podcast shit on paladins all phase 1 calling them broken when they were in a good spot. Two phases go by and no one wants to talk about shamans because everyone is playing one, including the devs. People are quitting SoD now for a reason and its because of piss poor development. This season started off amazing and now we have all these wannabe streamers / youtubers crying about classes that aren't even OP , they just suck and can't beat them even when they play a broken class. Now you want warriors to be nerfd? bro they are by far the worst in PvP and only acceptable in raids because they stack well with world buffs / gear . You and Sarthe are a fucking joke and shitty gamers. The only thing that needs to happen right now is a shaman nerf.
If a class is either in a state of being underpowered(without WB's), or completely broken(with WB's), then it is obviously something wrong with the design. I don't give a fuck _why_ a Warrior beat me by 30%, because if I did my job perfectly, he shouldn't, the _why_ part is irrelevant. The ideal solution should be to make warriors stronger on the low end but weaker at the high end, and normalizing rage seems to be a pretty decent way of doing that imo. *It's very important to remember that 80% of Warrior players NEVER reaches this end game OP state, and thus will always be stuck with the underpowered version.* So having the OP end game state as a counter balance to the early game UP warriors is a terrible way of balancing it, because it's not a transition most players will make.
Gnone kicking skill is over 9000 😅😅
yooo thank you lol. i like kicking a lot, the gnomes just happen to be in the way. how do you feel about balancing right now ichigo? is it working out for you?
Yeah the need to leave warrior alone, the only thing theyre good at is raid. Normalizing rage wouldnt make crappy geared warrios any better btw it would just make better geared warriors that put in the work worse.
at this rate theyll be doing double or even more damage of most other classes at 60 they have to do something
@Yams42279 stop looking at 100%parse and start looking at 90 or 95% parses, only the best warriors perform like that and it's ONLY when recklessness is active. Warriors suck in pvp open world farming, let them have something.
Also most warriors are absolute trash
@@claytongiampaolo7848 so youre saying since warrior is bad at farming then it should be twice as strong as every other class? even if they normalized rage warrior is still going to be #1 lets not kid ourselves. Do you really want to just have Sod be era and just have everyone reroll warrior for 60 cuz everything else will be bad in comparison?
@@claytongiampaolo7848 i dont care what classes are at the top but if the top class is doing 2x damage of classes in middle of the pack then clearly something needs to be done. We are halfway through 50 phase and we are already seeing the warrior stacking and people rerolling warrior in anticipation of them being god tier compared to everything else
Jerome is such a fuggin goof ball, that rope and floating pallet bit got me good.
lolll thank you aweisen, appreciate you saying that. hope you are having a good day
jeromee ur editing skill always amaze me lol great stuff!
thank you a lot branden, appreciate you saying that. what do you think about sod balance right now? is it working out for you?
Warrior rotation feels awful too, fuck consumed by rage, and fuck stance dancing
Don’t even attempt to play fury unless you have full WB and consumes.
that's true you need full WB and consumes. on my hunter i did manage a run this week where I didn't lose wbs at least. feels like that will be more common in the future. though warriors are far harder to keep buffs on than ranged hunters
Bro the amount of effort you put in these videos are insaneee
Keep it up
thanks a lot yildizusuf, i really appreciate you saying that. how do you feel about the balance issues right now? are they minor to you or are they causing any problems?
@@NOHITJEROME paladin changes are great in my opinion as ally.
Boomkin buffs are a bit meh
I main boomie and it is not fun to play right now for PvE Andys
Okay here is the issue. They wanted to make everyone as strong as warriors but they also buffed warriors so they have to super buff everyone else. This makes no sense. There were plenting of things they could have changed for warrior to make the class more interesting with runes while also not buffing their base game damage. So now were in a situation where everyone is doing more than nax level dps at level 50. The game was never made for this kind of damage and it really shows. It honestly makes me wonder if blizzard actually thought any of this through even on a basic level.
Also the game design of classic will always lend itself to class stacking. When boss fights are so easy a potato could handle them there is never a reason to diversify. Everyone is upset about warriors but warriors aren't the issue. You can and always will have a class that is top, this is true in retail but they don't have this problem. Easy raids are the problem here. You need boss mechanics and functions that force diverse raid comps while also having reasonable dps balance. Blizzard is doing neither of these things. So you have to ask yourself, do you want classic style easy boss zug zug, or do you want a diverse class stack?
Hi fatesmaster, I completely agree with your points. They buffed everyone to keep pace with war but then they buffed war so now they are overbuffing everyone even more. So now you get things like shamans/paladins generating infinite mana for the raid to try to entice people to bring more class diversity. I don't know if the endgame was fully thought out, it does seem like a herculean task to have planned all of this perfectly from the beginning. Might be a case where the train tracks are being built as the train is coming.
As for your class stacking points, you are right that warriors aren't the issue. The easy raid point is exactly what I wanted to say in my original edit, the problem is: people don't really like hard raids. So you have to somehow keep the raids "easy" while also rewarding support roles. That's where fights like atalai defenders feel like the model. It's not at all impossible to clear that boss without hunters/priests, but they make it a far more enjoyable experience.
I think we all want classic style zug zug. We just want to not feel completely irrelevant after the first week of progression. I shouldn't have to abandon any alt that isn't a warrior, hunter or shaman right now
@@NOHITJEROME Very true on all counts. And my guild and I also want classic zug raids. We are mostly made up of mythic raiders that have been playing together for many years now. So we cleared ST after the first round of nerfs and were only inside for about 4 hours ish that first week. We play classic for the zug not challenge. But if we don't want stacking of whatever class is best there needs to be a reason to have multiples of every class in the raid especially in 40 man. A big part of that issue is giving utility and damage to everyone. I'm maining a shaman currently enhance, and when I started sod in phase 1 I was expecting them to make the class function for enhance but that I would still be there mostly for buffs. I never expected nor wanted to be near the top when I picked shaman, I new what I was getting into. Or at least I thought I did. I did not expect them to copy paste the current retail enhance dps rotation into SoD, cause thats all they did, and then they gave us sham rage.
Classes shouldn't be given buffs from other classes like hunters with kings and druids with Wind fury. Each class needs to bring a unique buff or set of buffs that then buffs others. Like class X bufs class y and class y buffs class z and class z buffs class x. This should be contained within groups to. As few raid wide buffs as possible. creating natural synergy inside groups. This way warrios can still do 3k dps but only if they have the right group and you would only want 1 warrior per group. Casters and healers would need similar setups and same with the tank group. Its hard but making a good game is never easy.
This aura is a joke, makes anyone that can heal Sooooooo strong
the 50% damage reduction? yeah that's going to get changed for sure. maybe 20-30%? feels like 50% is way too much lol
Yeah and the worst pvp class (warrior) even worse..
Hunters and rogues still hit like trucks though, and hurt casters who already deal with classic pushback it's even worse, cause when they do get a cast off it does nothing.
I love the current DR at 50%
@@99smacks81 nah. As a hunter anyone who can heal I have 0 chance against atm.
It's always been burst before they heal as hunter and now we cant
Blizzard needs to actually use armor as a tuning knob. They showed us what was possible in Phase 2, but they used bad armor amounts, normal on the first 2 bosses and extreme on the final 4 bosses. Overall the dps was fairly balanced but individual bosses were wildly unbalanced. If they smartly tune armor all these overperforming melee will come into balance with the casters. Rage normalization is a bad idea. Classic is not designed for it.
fully agree maxvla. armor should be the tuning knob. gnomeregan had so many good ideas that were not 100% fully cooked but I think they should be brought back. to me it'd be as simple as making a few bosses melee favored (lower armor) and a few bosses caster favored (higher armor) and all of a sudden you'd have pretty good class diversity. As for rage normalization, the feedback I've seen seems to agree with what you are saying. it just wouldn't feel like classic.
Dunno, that opens the door to even more class stacking shenanigans, either boss by boss or something dumb like having majority dps be druid/shaman and swap specs between phys/spell. Kinda sounds cool actually
There is no issue with warriors being majority of your raids DPS and the most popular class in classic because it brought significantly more benefits than negatives.
- More tanks while leveling
- Second, third, fourth person on threat being a warrior during a raid means the boss turns around and hits someone they live, can put a shield on and start tanking instead of it being a caster and the boss running to Narnia potentially causing positioning issues
- More people using Rage or Energy in your raid makes your raid go faster by default even in normal guilds
- Highly rewarding playstyle, few classes in WoW classic or MMOs of the era this games client was made actually scale with skill like a warrior does
yooo pickupsticks, I definitely should factor in the fact that there are barely any tanks in classic historically and it's great to have more of the. and there really is nothing cooler in wow than having a near wipe but your blasting fury warrior put on a shield to save the raid. but the last 2 points - those are the problems. rage/energy based classes being the meta means bringing mana users actually hurts your clear speed and makes everyone have a worse experience. and the scaling of warriors means everyone else feels terrible getting +10 caster damage while warriors get 50-100 dps increases with some gear
@@NOHITJEROME They just need more mana battery options, a naxx geared mage in classic could do some serious damage but had to hold back because of mana and imo damage for SoD should of always been based around what a warrior could do in classic but no higher, going higher is causing the pvp issues
@@pickupsticks3942 yeah the idea should have been to keep warrior the same (while adding some fan favorite abilities ie war banner) and then buff everyone else in interesting ways that keep class identity mostly intact. seems things have gone too far
i freakin love these videos you make the way you do lol i am laughing so hard through it
thanks so much pyraslounge. really happy to hear that. i need some laughs myself after getting farmed at the maradon portal all night..
Normalize warrior rage gain and most warriors will quit. the whole class will feel different and bad
yeah I'm seeing that response constantly,. nobody wants rage normalization. was it added in a retail expansion? i don't remember any complaints in wrath or tbc about it
Do we really need to fix the problem. Is it really a problem if after they have 1 or 2 of the utility classes, the 1% fill their raid with warriors. Most guilds won't do that and will bring a mix of dps classes as long as they somewhat compete.
it's true for now bluemeanie. let's see in p4 though, warriors may completely take over, look out
Oh yeah, hopefully, they won't let that happen. What I was trying to say was a long as they compete on, say a 95th percentile, I think it's fine. Also, utility classes should be fine with not being top of the meters. They just need to make sure what they bring is more valuable than another dps
Why not just give specs utility that is too hard to pass up. The whole mana thing with shamans and paladins is a little much, but there's a bunch of ways you could give specs utility that actually makes up for damage. You could have windfury grant you an extra swing on top of the ones it gives. Just think of unique buffs/debuffs that inc damage in different ways and give the them to a bunch of classes.
agreed, there should be utility that is individual or party wide that makes it hard to pass up certain specs and classes. right now there isn't really a point in bringing say a second rogue or priest because you already have all the utility covered. at least that's how it feels to me glitchmodulator
Don't look at top 1% maybe? Doesn't matter what version of wow you play. Top speed clearing and parsing guilds will ALWAYS class stack. Nerf warriors and then they will just stack hunters....
If you don't want to play in that environment, don't. People pushing for warrior nerfs just dumb. The whole ethos of this season was to buff others up. Not bring warriors down into the gutter. I parsed 99s on my warrior phase one 90s phase 2 and 3 (in charge of recruitment raid in p2/3) all while not being in a parsing guild. We don't class stack or do anything gimmicky. Just the Bois having fun.
Look at top 95 maybe, which will give a better picture. Hell even if you're not parsing you can still clear the raid with a sub optimal setup fairly easily. If you don't want to parse or be in a parsing guild, then just don't lol.
Hi dallon first of all cute cat second I agree the warrior concerns right now are based around 99 parsing. But what about next phase? P4 will be even more warrior dominated. If they bring other classes to warrior level we will have huge power creep, mc would be boring
My main is a Warrior, been grinding hard since phase 1. It felt like warriors always lost 1v1s and only felt good with team mates in PvP. We were told "dont worry how bad your class is now, you scale late game". now that the late game is practically here and the scaling is working, i dont think its fair to nerf warriros after 1 month of S tier, when it felt like our class was the worst for months and months before.
fair point richderk, you had to deal with a very rough p2. but man warriors are ALREADY the kings in p3 and in p4 it just feels like things are only going to get more intense. and a lot of people would argue the endgame matters a lot more than say..p2 gnomeregan
This ye not s tier warrior yet. That comes at level 60 pre bid and beyond. Warrior has always been shit alone in Wpvp due to the simple hit and get hit nature of the class.
Buffs ranged hunter when they are already top 4 dps
- Reason? Well they dont want all hunters to go the absolute top dps aka melee hunter
Cant wait for Frost mages to also get free frostfirebolt casts cus they dont want all mages to be fire :)
ya i don't entirely get the ranged hunter buffs, ranged hunter happens to be one of the only roles you WANT with the warrior / physical based comps that are becoming the meta. so it wasn't like they were going to have a lot of trouble finding a role. as a hunter myself at first I loved the changes but they really do feel unnecessary looking back..
Warrios need their scaling to be crippled. I know no warrior player wants to hear it, but its not classic. Its SoD. Shake up the meta big time. Im a fire mage and even with 50 crit in raids my class sucks ( compared to a warr ) unless i have the luckiest 1 minute crit chain. Im okay with beeing middle of the pack. Just give everyone 15%-30% more damage and dont buff warriors at all, just normalize their rage or something.
I have to agree Roxx, it doesn't seem like warrior is going to get..worse..next phase. So what other option is there other than a nerf? Mages are getting screwed right now, really all casters. It's cool to me if warriors are #1 at the end of p4 but it feels crazy to have them be bis p3-p4 and beyond. Though rage normalization seems like a bridge too far for pretty much every war, they really don't want it roxx
The problem isn't Blizzard - it's us. This Min/Maxing culture is extremely toxic and against the true culture of the game. It's time to ban Warcraft logs.
not wrong sniperdps. we got older and adults want to accomplish things (quickly) and be good at things they spend time at and they have limited time. it means kicking all the non-meta classes so you can perform better. the game would probably be better without wcl. only issue is..what other endgame is left without it?
@@NOHITJEROME 1) Better PVP events. 2) Make the raids actually hard. Like the way the were in week 1. Make it so that it takes 5-6 attempts for most guilds before they clear the thing. But the silly little, 'drink an elixir of coalescent regret so you can squeeze in that last 3 dps' is just... stupid...
Lol
Warriors have been complaining about this since launch. What did blizzard think when they gave only stacking %dmg runes to warrior. We asked for fun or utility runes instead but again in p3 we got 10% crit dmg runes and every other rune was trash.
ya my priest gets 2 new pets..new cool abiltiies liike voidzone and mindsear. you guys really got screwed just getting pure dps runes because your rotation isn't that different and now you are just the poster child for classes doing too much damage lol
Ngl the high kicks were kinda impressive
thanks you tohonorknowledge, I appreciate that. will try to kick higher in the next video. what do you think about the balancing in p3 right now?
@@NOHITJEROME well, I play a dps warlock, Lake of Fire nerf really hurt us, and ironically if they undid that change (like they did with ranged hunters explosive and chimera shots) warlocks wouldn’t be looking at too many issues.
I’d like to say I raid at a high-ish lvl (I’m not a logs nerd so idk how to like dissect every aspect of a fight) Rularuu Wild Growth US. And the only complaint I have over all is the raid is a joke too soon. Like AQ40 eventually became a joke but day 1 it was a nightmare (in a good way) and I think they’ve lost that pacing
The min-maxing attitude is what is ruining the game you’re supposed to have fun it is an mmoRPG gotta do some role-playing instead of trying to be the guy with the bigfest e-peen swinging around during raid time
i think it's because we got older and adults want to minmax their time, they don't want to go into a raid and fail for 4 hours so it turns into minmax city
You are missing the biggest reason people aren’t class stacking. Loot distribution, we get way less loot in ST than we did in gnomes. I see pugs and almost every recruiting guild building for loot distribution not max dps.
that's a fair point shawn, my understanding is that 100% of a longtime group should have acquired tier by now if it's getting given out fairly each week. might be off on that math though. loot distribution is definitely a factor I didn't fully consider. but once players do get more gear in the next weeks the problems are going to start to become more prevalent imo
Shaman does way more dps compared to pally and still offers more support... And now with the pvp change they are even more busted than before. Blizzard reduced damage but they never nerfed healing... So in turn a enhancement shaman with maelstrom can fully heal themselves for FREE with the procs every couple seconds and all of that hp they heal needs to be dealt again in damage at reduced 30% rate. Blizzard is absolutely blind with shamans....and seal twisting is garbage with how fast our weapons are as ret. In pvp it's decent if you run a divine storm build, although it's a loss in dps for pve.. Waste of globals. I would much rather have free instant cast full heals
yeah sham is broken i won't lie. ele right now is doing 1k+ dps in pve and dominating pvp. and tank shamans are still the only option. i'm just jealous that paladins give so much mana back now. i want horde to be on top, i have some bias there no doubt..
@@NOHITJEROME ya if anyone liked Ret paladins... they have a stigma associated with them unlike shamans which are praised by everyone on the horde knowing they are op. Shamans have two DPS specs with one being far superior why the hell would you play ele for pve anyways if you were worried about DPS. Ele sham has always been the chad of PVP in classic wow. Not like the mana is even needed if your kill times are fast enough like they are now anyways
If this iteration of WoW is seasonal as in the title "SoD" it's ok, next season will be better considering all the data they accumulated
Project Epoch seems to have found a good formula even proposing Contracts to level with an XP debuff to get better rewards for the most patient players at 60.
They really should consider and soak what this private server is doing.
definitely a "next season can only get better" situation. curious about the project epoch comparison. so you can choose modifiers to your gameplay to alter rewards at max level? that feels like it would really open up alt gameplay. like sure I'll rush my main to 60. but then being rewarded for taking subsequent alts a lot slower would be awesome
@@NOHITJEROME ruclips.net/video/MFOAQ4Wcbmg/видео.htmlsi=IG2CHhAuLmhGj1j0
Absolute horrible idea. Here we go again.
saying boomkins are middle of the pack when theyre bottom 3 is great I love that
even post-buff? filter all the old parses out, they do get 10% more damage and it's better than the spriest buff, it works like dmf
what are you talking about? They dot you and run away and then you die. They are so OP it is rediculus.
@Westerdahl obviously they are talking pve and you are talking pvp, 2 different things bruh.
@@NOHITJEROME Yeah even after post buff the disparity in classes is pretty large, the group of ele spriest and boomkin all bottom 3, I guess this coming Tuesday will be better to see on wcl
This is specifically in regards to pve btw, boomkin is fine I’m pvp maybe a tad strong lol
The issue is raid wide buffs. Make everything group based and you will start to need multiple druids and hunters for buffs.
i love that take, group wide buffs make the most sense. giving everyone something they can bring to the table, rewarding class diversity, but not making it so you need 1 of every single spec in the game.
If you have a tight knit guild and they drop you because you’re not a melee hunter or warrior then that sounds like a shitty group of people
pb34r you are not wrong, but it happened in the guild i'm in, and i've seen it happen in other guilds. if you are in a parse or speedrun guild, they demand optimal raid comps. hell even my priest will probably be benched eventually. top speedruns are double shaman healer for some reason
@@NOHITJEROME my guess is shamanisitc rage mana batteries. less time drinking between pulls/no time drinking.
@@NOHITJEROME good luck man. I guess everyone goes for a different vibe when they play!
I know this is a day or two late of my comments but I been in the trenches this past week during PVP Jerome. The 1x thing I will say since I represent the brotherhood of light for the Paladins ☀ on my end, along with my community. Ret's over the week with the Aura debuff felt pretty bad. I also compared the mana returns online from Shamans-Paladins, and our rates were down as low as 11-13 mana back from a Paladin from SoM on a low end. Ret's also within PVP after 2x days of doing Arathi Basin with multiple L's 😆our damage felt like most people are saying, "a wet noodle". I think Reck spec and Shockadin was better but not by a massive way. Most classes in the bg's felt like mini raid bosses with endless healing. I do like that warriors felt good though from the feedback I saw. Overall, I just wanted to leave my 2 cents here fam, much luv and great video 🔒
well you play it and i just look at it (as i'm horde) so I have to listen. the pvp nerf ret got unnecessarily due to the damage reduction was an amazing example of why i don't want to be a game dev lol. unintended consequences. as for raiding man from over here it feels like you just get infinite mana. i just hate shamans by comparison and that's having 4-5 of them in every raid.
as for shockadin, there's nothing worse on this earth than trying to play that spec vs tanky / resilient classes taking 50% reduced damage. tbc shockadin week one? most fun spec in the game. by the end of sunwell? miserable
It's never going to be balaned. Warriors suck at PVP, they suck at open world farming, they kinda suck at tanking (compared to likes of warlocks).
PVE dmg is the only thing they have going for them. If you put them on par with everyone else there will be 0 reasons to play a warrior since everything outside of raids is straight up worse as a warrior.
pretty much true but should they be doing 500 more dps than everyone else? in p4 it'll be 1k+. maybe the runes can be slightly tweaked at the very least
Let me make this simple: The 50% PvP dmg reduction change is not creating more balance, it is doing the opposite. The 50% change isnt happening in a vacuum, this is a game with an action economy. There is only so much you can do in a certain timeframe, like a GCD. Previously the change I could do a "counteroneshot". Yes that hunter or his BW buffed pet were gonna kill me, but my full dotline is gonna spell certain doom for him 5-8 seconds later. It wasnt perfect, but it was largely fine. Furthermore the goal of this games balance was never to be balanced around 1v1 PvP, yet that is what they are trying here. This is so asinine and stupid, it boggles my mind.
The more frustrating PvP experiences arent 1v1s, quite the opposite. It is events like STV or gank raids of 50s camping early 40s at Ashenvale Incursions. Blizzard is directly and obviouslly buffing the gank meta and giving the most toxic and vile among its players a gift served on a plater. What good is a 50% less dmg taken change when 8 hunters multishot in my general direction? Previously I just died and now I just die the same in the exact same timeframe. There is no difference of dying to 3 or 5 out of 8 multishots in one global. Except now there is no longer any chance to effectively counter or at least fight back to some degree. If you dont believe me, try playing Wintergrasp against a vastly superior number of enemies. You can have 10 stacks of 18% more health, more health regen, more healing recieved and more dmg done (each!) and yet you will loose each and every time.
50% damage reduction is really weird right now. i wonder if they did it to buff melee. it hasn't fixed any of the camping or griefing like you said at all. it doesn't resolve really anything. i'm not entirely sure what the point of the reduction was. as a healer i like it but as a dps player i completely understand hating it. in the end you can have as much hp and dmg reduction as you want but 10 hunters will win any day lol
This entire phase is just a gold grind since my class only got an increase of about 200dps when a few others got 1500 dps, very poor and not worth my time.
yeahhhh that happened to casters. it does feel bad having to get sandstorm/decay on a non warrior/rogue/shaman imo. on hunter it seems like a really small dps increase to get decay but i believe i have to get it lol
Balance for balance to be fixed it must first be messured and we or the gammers has been pumping and logs are showing and so blizzard sees our progress and is doing there all to balance the damage but damage will always creep up to surprise all of us. This video was a refresher to what was and will eventually be something we all look back at in memory of all of our collaboration to one day come to the end to what can be close to what balance stands for but were still pumping and finding ways to break the game. I have hope in numbers and logs and in blizzard seeing the logs and keep tweeking the math to one day come at a end point where every class feels so dam good to play.
Hi angelmusicvideos, you are right that we need more data, blizzard should wait and not overreact and panic nerf warriors. But in fairness you play a tank shaman. Blizzard overturned them and nerfed them really fast. Don’t you think it’s fair to do the same to warriors?
I'll never understand the people that play SOD like described in this video.
I never experienced ppl caring what class or spec you are. Come in do mechanics and know your rotation.
There is no reason to be as serious as described here.
Unless you're the 1% best player / guild. All 99% other ppl should just play for fun. The game is not hard in any way.
there's this level to pushing things to the limit that adds to the experience at some point. or maybe some of us are trying to make up for not doing world firsts and server firsts back in the day as kids. in the end it probably would be more fun to just enjoy the game instead
Absolute dog water cat piss phase 4 prison. That is the only thing phase 3 should be remember as. An absolute disgusting, imbalanced, empty, contentless, waste of a phase that turned into the worst prison before level 60 imaginable. At least Swamp of Sorrows is beautiful to look at.
ya idk about swamp of sorrows being beautiful to look at but ill take ur word for it lol
I personally prefer the 20 mans. Because, while the top 1% guilds are class stacking, the other 99% aren’t. So it makes it easier for the average player of any class to be able to be fit into a run.
Though I do agree they should incentivize diversity for everyone. And I like your suggestions.
Hi Justin, thanks for your take. You have been very pro-guild and community. Do you think 20 man’s are better for longtime guilds? To me 20 man means a lot of benched guildies. But I’ve never had much success filling 40s so it’s a hard problem to solve
Warriors got screwed in Phase 1 and Phase 2. And the first time they come online everyone crys even though they didn't get good runes or any special abilities or buffs nothing. like every other class in the game and they sat back and watched every other class skyrocketing for phases and phases. Honestly if they touch warrior in any way of nerfing it 50% of the community is leaving. And warriors are almost completely useless by themselves besides in a raid setting with full consum😂 it seems like every other Clash should stop crying and let the game play out
p1/p2 warriors were definitely not that much of a problem (or even v ery good) but i think it comes down to war being THIS good in p3 already. we have another 6-8 months of sod coming and more and more warrior dominance. and you are 100% right that people will quit if they nerf wars..so blizz is stuck. think they can only look to fix things by having a mix of ranged and melee favored bosses. like combining a good melee boss with thermaplugg in the same raid. what do you think about that?
One of the unintended consequences of extremely fast leveling seems to be people jumping on the bandwagon for the top dps classes. Our raid used to be varied, but now we have majority hunters, warriors, and shamans. Our mages all jumped ship. On the topic of rage normalization, i'd rather not see it. I'd rather see others brought up to their level somewhat, even if they are slightly behind.
yooo that's something I hadn't considered daniel. by making leveling way easier you now have 1) an excuse from blizzard "it's so easy to level..if your class isn't being brought just reroll" and 2) way more players leveling flavor of the month classes (or even just converting them from alts into mains) as for rage normalization, I agree, it's just anti-classic. I think they can just go the thermaplugg route and have some fights (not all..) in each new raid reward ranged dps too
Dual spec breaks some of your suggestions, like a raid with half melee/half range focus, hunters,druids,shamans just instantly become dps meta for sweaty guilds because they can swap between melee/range specs with 1 talent swap and 1 item rack macro, especially if they make pvp/faction sets bis again
it's why dual spec is kind of a problem, i wished the dual spec implementation only worked in capital cities. would fix a lot of problems
Warrior is dogshit in every aspect of the game except with world buffs AND in a raid , i think rage nornalization is a pretty bad way of going about it and will probly kill the class , either make recklessness a 5min CD for the next 5 casts
Or make it like a lust raid wide 5 second crits for every1 with an exhaust debuff and can only be used once per boss
it's fair mikenurney to say that, war relies heavily on WB compared to classes like shamans right now, even rogues. i think everyone is in agreement with no rage normalization, never seen more negativity towards an idea lol
Rage normalisation= all warriors nerfed to the ground its something that should be done in p1 not now.
Oh ye warrior main talking here. But rly , its like get hunters focus insted of mana, its so big change that will change evrything and then all ppl will be like where all warriors at? We need some shouts and rally. Lmao
not wrong, i think rage normalization would have had to happen day 1 if at all. they can't do anything about it now. too many wars would quit
Making fights so you need specific classes is good for a dev team with working brains, but not for the sod dev team. They literally made only priests mandatory since p1. So making the best healer in the game needed for dispels which only priests could do before p3 and now that paladins can put in bosses to shackle or offensive dispels which paladins can’t do is just the worst decision possible. They should please take their hands of mechanics that makes you need specific classes because it will result in a disaster.
yeah making the fights better with a variety of classes is the most logical way to fix these issues and would be a huge undertaking when designing the fights. but i see your point - i was forced to dispel on jammaln and ogom while our raid was wiping because priests happen to be the best dispellers. it was like giving me an extra bit of job security that i didn't want or need
So glad all the casters are getting benched, no one cared when rogues could hardly find a gnomer
yo i get that take stehley but rogues are next, if you guys aren't doing 95%+ as much as wars wouldn't people want to bring more wars? though to be fair rogue is more consistent and reliable by far. more trustworthy for any group than a random war
Right now we deserve it, it's hardest class to find raid still, it's most boring of them all, every class got smt unique, warriors are not diff than in vanilla right now it's a problem for me. For end game warriors should scale like nobody, problem of this phase is also about bis loot being already standard for warriors raiding from 1st week
as players realize how good warriors are i think it wil lbe easier and easier to find groups. i fully do agree that the loot was a big problem. warriors got their full bis and went to 2k dps. casters got upgrades and went up 100 dps lol
I would rather we have less group buffs rather than more. Those group buffs are the only way to guarantee certain classes get brought in sweaty guilds, but in our guild, it just makes my life harder to make sure everyone has the appropriate buffs. Windfury is awesome, but now all melee need to have it. Then they add melee hunter, so those limited spots were in even greater competition. I prefer there to be less group buffs.
The group buffs are definitely a WOTLK style design and I don't like the idea of needing 1 of every spec just to complete the raid. But how do you ensure that there is diversity in classes being brought to the raid? If there aren't necessary buffs and debuffs, how do you stop there from being 14 warriors in a speedrun/parse run?
@@NOHITJEROMEdefinitely don’t have a great answer. I personally would say that less group buffs and class balancing around PvE is all SoD devs should worry about.
My concern with group buffs is that making raids will become too difficult. Guilds are already folding because coordinating 20 people is too difficult, relative to 10 mans. This trend will continue each time raid size increases. I think blizzard knows that the core of wow is guilds, but they sometimes focus too much on individual experience and not enough on group.
There are plenty of groups of people where 1-2 people do the lion share of the organizing and raid prep. The harder it is to do that organizing and raid prep, the more likely those people are to quit. If those 1-2 people quit, the other 18 will likely quit. So while individual grumblings might cause a singular person to quit, making raids harder to put together will make entire groups of people quit.
Im playing feral cat and ret paladin, im constantly in the lowest part of the dps in the raids, imo they should be lowering the damage of the top classes, not buff the ones that suck, raid fights last 1-2 minutes ... Its too quick and easy.
at least feral is desirable and brings good things to the table. problem with nerfing overpowered classes i feel like is that you make the classes feel worse. people hate losing something they had before
I am 100% bias, but would suck to normalize rage for warriors. I would rather have them nerf the shit out of deep wounds. It shouldn't be 30% of our dmg imo.
yeah im not seeing a single player in favor of rage normalization. seems like DW nerf is the only way. just hope it doesn't cause too many warriors to quit
I wonder if a cap was set on how many of one class was allowed in a raid would help. With how video games are today even if classes were very well balance I feel the class that does 5-10% more than average would still be stacked.
i like the creative solution. something needs to be done, everyone seems to agree it shouldn't be rage normalization. running out of ideas over here lol
They dont have the knowledg to rework warrior the best designed class in classic... They will ruin it... They should focus on other classes to bring them in line..
And warrior only have pve... They are the worst in open world and in pvp... And have the highest skill requ. To pump...dont balance around the 0.1% of players if u look even at 95% logs warrior are not on 1. Not even in the 99%... So where is the problem??
Let warrioes be good at atleast one thing...
And dont forget warrior didnt goodnin p2 so why are ppl cry now? Last phase it took me always 1-2 hours to finde a raid spot... Only reason was warriors only get the raid spot if u tank or if the class is one of the best dps specs.. Every other class beside rogues and warrior bring something to raid... Warrior and rogues only dmg... So they have to perform or dont get the spot...
I agree napster touching warrior is a bad idea but if you keep buffing everyone else to bring them in line aren't you trivializing the content? and if everyone does the same damage as wars then you kill the bosses so fast that you don't actually need any healers or support anymore.
and i do agree with your take about war/rogue not having anything to bring to the raid except damage. but i think the warrior example could swap in any other class and the outcome would be the same. if warlocks are #1 damage then everyone would be rushing to stack warlocks.
Season of enh schamans
it totally destoys pvp.
Gave em freedom cleans all my shit and now with the dmg reduction in pvp the instant mealstorm heals shine even more.
Just give em bubble and bop.
ya i would have disagreed with you dennis but when I play bloodmoon on my (horde) priest my god I hate enhance shamans. just such a toxic concept - spam dispel spam dispel. it's not how..any other class plays. and frankly it's very unpleasant
warriors are fun for 2 hours a week during raid , the rest is a constant struggle to even do anything open world , why so much hate , charts are just in favour of warriors because of recklessness , so they win dmg on fights every 30 min , and lose to shamans and hunters on the rest
2 hours of fun, then log out, 2 hours of fun on warrior #2, log out, 2 hours of fun on warrior #3 :D easy
rage normailzation completely ruins warrior. It essentially gives warrior energy, couldnt ever play warrior again after they ruined rage, and it had been my main since vanilla
that's what everyone seems to be saying. i guess rage normalization is an absolute no go, wouldn't feel like classic
Having to check the box on every class's buff is just as annoying as class stacking. The best they can do is try to normalize damage, implement different damage profiles on classes and structure the raids so one class won't be king on most fights.
that's true matt, i didn't want to advocate for that too hard. wotlk is annoying in some ways due to the feeling of box checking for raid comps. (though I did enjoy wrath) I think all your solutions make sense. structuring the raid so everyone contributes something seems like a winning idea
@@NOHITJEROME Thanks for the reply Jerome, I appreciate you coming up with nuanced and unique ideas to promote raid comp flexibility. I am hoping at 60 that the tier sets will help promote class diversity. You won't want to miss out on a rogue and let that tier piece go to waste, but at the same time the hard core guilds will still class stack for speed runs and parsing but that is a trade off they will have to make.
As a warrior main since 2005 I don't like the idea of rage normalization, However I understand the call for it.
seems really to be getting negative responses from all wars. i don't think they'll do it now
Hey! We are NOT talking about the stealth boomie dps buff! Blizz will take it away if people notice!
was there ANOTHER boomkin buff that i didnt know about?
As a warrior main, I know for a fact a change to rage would end my SOD playing. Everyone who plays warrior just likes how rage plays and you can't look at the top 1% of warriors imo. Other classes do a lot better with the average player. OG Vanilla warrior, Nos, Elysium and a few others warrior...classic warrior, som warrior and no sod warrior. You are either a warrior main or you arent lol...even in classic when EVERYONE knew warrior is the tops you still had class diversity because people liked their class... Mages, hunters rogues and so on knew they didnt have warrior dps but they played what they liked. Each refresh of Vanilla though gets more sweaty for parsing, optimal raid comp and speed... If you are not a good class reroll if ya wanna raid or choose pug life.
Hi Paul, I respect your thoughts on warrior rage normalization. It does appear to be universally unpopular for classic players. And you do make a valid point that plenty of players still pick hunter, mage, Druid etc in versions of the game where we know warrior will be the best. But wasn’t Sod designed for more balance? It feels like warrior will be the only dps choice in p4
@@NOHITJEROME I am all for balance but don't nerf classes. Feels bad.
Buff everyone to Enhance shaman level of dps.
The devs are not making big swings at balance like they should. Id rather seem em over buff a class for a week then tone em back down. Just turn the dial up on coefficients and make everyone strong.
stopped raiding because of the 10 -> 20 man move and the difficulty increase which is not entertaining at all
the big problem with 10 to 20 is that you really don't bring 2 homunculi, you don't bring 2 mark of the wild characters, i guess you bring 2 mages due to the nature of their rotations but otherwise you would only need one. why double up on any buff or debuff from 10-20man when you can just bring 1?
I believe that raiding needs much harder. If u have guild you do your first clear the first week of season and since that... it is just parse run for most ppl. All melee classes got new weapons which boos them a lot and since caster dmg doesn't scale with intellect, there's no real dmg upgrade for them except couple SP. This season is so bad overally, even as rogue there is almost no point for me to grind anything except gold for consumable and world buffs. I got my gear from last season and from incursion, grinded weapon from pvp, did some maraudon runs and since that, all item give me like 10dps upgrade max, sometimes not even 5dps. Which is nothing compere to how much dmg i got from consumable and world buffs. Already half ppl in my guild is not playing... it just about spending golds for consumable and hunting parses.
yooo marek it's definitely a way to solve the class stacking issues. the second the raid becomes easy it becomes all about parsing/speedrunning. if the raid is hard everyone keeps their healers, they keep their support much longer. as for the sc aling, it definitely feels bad for casters by comparison because they gain only a few dps from a new weapon. and warriors gain 50-100 dps in some cases.
this phase is definitely all about goldmaking and parses. some peoples idea of a dream but others idea of a nightmare. i'm somewhere in the middle over here.
do you think you'll end up giving sod another shot at 60? or are you calling it quits for good
@@NOHITJEROME even if i say no, i know i will try it 😀 but i really hope that phase 4will be different... I mean i was looking forward to phase 3 especially as rogue player with all the new op runes. I was planing with our guildes to speed run 40-50, some of them spend hours of getting ready there questlogs, so we can do raid the first reset. But then the P3 come and after 10hours of incursion I hade already two my chars at 50with pre bis gear, 800g and I was like thats super cool... but now i think the incursions were big mistake. The 40-50journey was gone, no relationship with my chars created or with my guildes, its like retail when u have 10chars, 8of them is boosted as u get boost with every expension and u even dont remember the character names... I really hope that they will do something different in P4 and raiding will be at least wotlk difficulty. Otherwise I dont see anybody playing it for more than month. This week I had 95%+ parses with not even close to bis gear, just cos I was full buffed the whole raid and ignored most of the mechanic, last week i died at second boss cos weak healing and I could go pretty much offline as there is no point to go raid with no word buffs cos u can not get more than 60-70% parses
Ele sham needed a lava burst nerf MONTHS ago… pvp speaking
ya ele sham is now broken..they overbuff it again. do you know if the 50% damage nerf is in? feel like i'm still getting one shot right now.
@@NOHITJEROME the 50% nerf came and went, you didn’t miss much - it was bad.. I think with more stam gear sets etc people can bulk up and things at 60 will hopefully balance out more in PvP. Classic has always had squish potential. Addons like item rack helps for killing specific classes in duels where certain stats are more appropriate, depending.
@@johnnny5veeoxx yeah it seems like the 50% reduction didn't work out. the thing is, classic is always rock paper scissors. so i haven't minded the one shots so much. if you run full shadow resistance gear vs a shadow priest you are 100% going to beat them in a fight. or at least you'll have a chance
Right, on my balance druid I had armor sets v rogue and war,def+stam w some caster bis inbetween, soul link lock lots of magical resistance penetration, disc priest some melee stuff because oom pressure switch cat, vs mage full caster set, etc. Took a hit on my bags but it worked!
Maybe if it was more like 20% reduction it would work.. but hopefully they just math the gear and spell stats correctly and it evens out better at 60. PvP hits more full circle with classes at level 60 anyways. Cheers!
Just make a loot buff based on class diversity. 25% more loot if you bring ____ of each class
love that idea magnum. might get too much negative outcry though. maybe they just can design the loot around rewarding many classes
For a guy named Nohit Jerome, that was alot of beatdowns.
hahha I love that jason. in the end the only beatdowns i've been taking are the ones outside of the maradon portal..ahhh 8 deaths in a row today
Min maxing in SoD... Why not close the game and min max their love life, work life, plant seeds during this spring, min max their garden or personal health ?
Naah they are just sitting there looking for the smallest glitch and get a dopamin surge from that instead... Just a big lol on those that waste so much time on something that will be deleted by the end of it's run.
in the end humans want to min max anything in life. i want to min max that garden just as much as the parses :D
@@NOHITJEROME True in a way ^,^
I tried that and too much fiddeling around with plants that are going their own natural path grow better than those that I "helped" and they end up taking more time to deliver fruit of the labor =/
I'm here to see gnomes flying.
i'm glad you were able to see the gnomes flying. hopefully they can fly straight back to their inns where they can log out and stop ganking me at the maradon portal
honest warrior is just strong if u have WF buff feral if u like to go more then MM hunter (shaman horde) so u dont just pick warriors, if u get from 20 people 2-3 is max
yeah it's true war needs WF war needs world buffs. they need optimal comps. i still think 8 would be viable though or at least 6-8
@@NOHITJEROME Far to much id u ask me. Warrior build alot dps in last 20% imagine 8 of it 😅, ther is skill cap on warrior if u look at meele hunter or rouge warrior is harder to play, still stick whit 2 to 3 whit 2 meele grupes. Best comp 2 Warrior Feral MM Hunter Shaman (if Horde). That 2x is more then enugh one range g and one tank and heal :)
Normalising rage is as big of a change as changing the resource to energy or mana. It would be terrible.
Rage is only one of the reasons warriors scale well, and warriors are already almost at the 'infinite rage' portion of the curve, so it's not going to keep scaling exponentially. FLyrry scaling is also already maxed out, were at nearly AQ40 bis levels of crit in SoD.
Warrior scaling right now is a problem due to too many flat % damage buffs and short fights meaning they have very high uptime, so that scales exponentially. Especially because this WOTLK version fo deep wounds scales super well and double dips from these flat% damage buffs.
Nerf deep wounds and replace these flat damage runes with more interesting runes. Leave rage alone!
i see a lot of backlash to the idea of rage normalization. it seems to be the most unpopular direction blizard could go. i think it does make more sense to tweak the runes, and take a page from other classes that got new ways of playing, new pets, new abilities. (ie priest with 2 new pets) - maybe next phase other classes scale more off numbers while warriors get more variety to their playstyle
@@NOHITJEROME Agree completely!
Giving warriors several flat % damage runes was always going to scale way too well (there's a reason death wish is already the best dps cooldown in the game). Not only was it poor planning, it's also boring design IMO.
They should give warriors utility runes instead, like War Banner or Die by the Sword. For alternative throughput, maybe versions of Sudden Death or Blood and Thunder?
All it takes i splaying a Cata warrior for five minutes to realise normalised rage is basically the same as Energy
@@krushingkobra utility runes would be sick. i would love love love to see war banner especially in pvp. warriors feel solow utility right now. and i think you are right. it would be cata war and i don't know anyone who wants that right now
Blizzard already said they aren't touching core function of talents. If warriors lose classic rage then we'll need the rage balance all the way to mop where it was finished to compensate. The hit and get hit nature of the class makes it to simple to change. All or nothing.
ya they cant do rage normalization but what are they gonna do? war will be broken p4 100%
@@NOHITJEROME yea it a tricky spot
Micro-managing individual abilities and runes seems like such a headache. I don't understand why in SoD, where they have the excuse to change anything, don't they simply change stat scaling, which is like 80% of the actual rot beneath most issues?
hi highlaw, it's definitely a problem that all the runes are being balanced but the core problems ie warrior scaling are going to cause problems regardless of runes. i suppose the best lever to pull is the boss encounters themselves at this point. ie armor values on bosses
You’re confusing, speed run, top guild, to normal people. Normal guilds are not stacking classes. This is the season of Dad.
Fair point. But there’s a trickle down from speedruns to season of dads isn’t there?
@@NOHITJEROME couple things to consider with warriors. 1st is fury/glad are the specs that will gain the most at 60, getting impale and Bloodthirst. Arms will take a dumpster. Making arms raid viable was a cool thing about sod. Also warrior is a group class. We are only good in groups, you don’t see people making any sort of warrior to world farm. So basing everything off from a 1 hour raid is risky. Playing my hunter, rogue and warlock much more fun solo.
I'm kind of glad I bailed on SoD before it became World of WarriorCraft again.
well maybe p4 will be world of warlockcraft. never know what will happen with the balancing now lol
sounds like you need to just play with better friends if you are going to be benched for the class you play, at the end of the day the fun is playing with friends how ever you want, as long as bosses are dying
fair play projectrealfilms. when you push for speed/performance that's when the benchings happen. playing with purely friends in a laid back environment sounds really good. but i've never had that before. i'm always trying to keep up with the joneses (for some reason)
I get that, somthing you have to prepare for i guess to get the absolute best you can, or level every class to have a back up 😆. Love your videos though! Very unique and enjoyable to watch
Hopefully the final product will be a fun, fairly balanced experience.
we will see david. phase 4 will be absolutely fascinating. i know i'm leveling a warrior just to be safe lol
They already said they were going to address all mana regen abilities next phase.
did they say that? really curious about their official statement
Wish i could even get into raids... everytime ive tried joining a pug they want logs... which i have none cuz no1 will let me raid. Guess i gotta lead my own or somethin.
yooo andrew have you looked into trying to join any guilds? i feel like the pug scene right now is not the play, i don't think it's your fault
@NOHITJEROME yeah... every guikd i join has too rigid of a schedule. I work 3rds and rlly need a sunday or monday raid lol
@@andrewme7699 there are not a lot of monday or sunday raids. sunday afternoon or morning might be a thing. used to do a sunday morning gdkp. was NOT easy waking up for that lol
I rly hope they don't do rage normalization. It makes warriors PLAY feel shit...
ya 0 people seem to want rage normalization. i think they will just have to rebalance some of the runes slightly or rework encounters in p4 so there is a mix of ranged/melee favored fights
@@NOHITJEROME yes! Just nerf all our flat damage % runes by 5-10
Gnome kicking noise was so annoying. Was funny once not 10 times.
noted ty. will also lower the volume on them lol
Instead of the over-balancing, why couldn't they implement the aura/buff mentality from TFT or auto-chess games?
Bring 3 warriors, 3/3 Battle shout. Don't need a 4th since 4/3 doesn't do anything.
Only 1 Feral, 1/2 chance on Wild Strikes. Need a 2nd.
your edits are best! blizz give us barbershop in SoD!
lol thank you taarruz. would like to see the barbershop as well. i have a lot of regrets with my character and am forced to show my helmet which is a pvp disadvantage
Literally no one cares about this. SOD balance is fine.
hmmm you may be right. i think only spriests are really sad right now. and maybe warlocks
warrior is only massive damage with every world buff and consumable possible active, yes they scale the highest which means highest dos but they need everything to reach that. the higher skill/gold having characters will be doing this and yes it is the best but the AVERAGE WARRIOR is worse than the AVERAGE hunter/enh
Great Video Brotha.. I like the Longer Format keep it upp... Bottoms up Smoke em if You Got em
thanks a lot deadmen, appreciate you saying that. i dont have anything to smoke but i can crush this coffee real quick lol. as for the video, how do you feel about the balancing in sod so far? has it been a noticeable issue for you or not a big deal?
Really liked your take on class utility versus damage, and I think this is spot-on. We've seen the same situation emerge in every iteration of Classic so far game - cover your necessary debuffs, then fill the rest of your slots with the most powerful classes. The result of that is that the most powerful classes are overplayed, and anyone not playing those classes will have a harder time finding a raiding guild.
- Vanilla: warriors
- TBC: hunters, warlocks, and especially shamans for b/h
- WotlK: unholy DKs, then eventually mage stacking in ICC due to how much time they can shave off of H LK
The same has been even more true of tanks. TBC saw serious guilds using a paladin and feral tank. WotLK was all paladins and, later, blood DKs. It's not that ferals and warriors couldn't do the content, but that they had major disadvantages comparatively. The DPS disparity isn't as much of an issue in 10-mans, but the tank disparity is, in my opinion, even worse when there are fewer raid cooldowns to supplement the tank's own cooldowns.
And I've no doubt we'll see an explosion of UH DKs, Arms warriors, and Blood DK tanks in Cata for those same reasons.
hi stranger, appreciate you saying this. it's a fundamental design flaw with classic, though some players wouldn't consider it a flaw. the problem is really noticeable when the class has a boring or overpowered rotation, TBC warlock comes to mind. the thing is..wrath tried to fix the problem by sort of mandating certain classes for buffs/debuffs. but I don't feel like that's the ideal solution, having to look for an enhance shaman for example for 2 hours while the rest of your raid is sitting there. the best solution is to use the encounters to balance classes, like having a thermaplugg style fight to go with a dragon cleave (warrior) fight
They completely dropped the ball with p3, sad to see
hi qorda, they definitely had some really good ideas going into the phase. but the raid was overtuned and it felt like once they nerfed it all the ideas they had went away with the nerfs. if things had been tuned perfectly from the start combined with their ideas for fights like eranikus, atalai defenders, i think the raid would be considered incredible. it's just very much a loot pinata now
@@NOHITJEROMEit’s a loot piñata by people trying there hardest, stacking classes, full consumes, full guild runs, it’s a nightmare to even consider pugging, phase 4 will have even less people, we’ve already lost 50% on lone wolf
They lost the plot unfortunately.
here's the thing: maybe the plot is impossible to keep a hold of. how do they resolve the core fundamental problems with class scaling? feels like you need a phd to keep up with how classes scale right now
@@NOHITJEROME Yeah and I don't blame them tbh. It is obviously too much for them to handle with constantly putting out fires and thus creating new ones, whilst working on P4 and beyond.
I really hope they don't nerf warriors. That would feel horrible especially when other classes are getting buffed up the wazoo like hunters, priests, shamans, druids, and rogues. This whole time they've been careful not to give us too much, other classes have far outplayed us in terms of cool new abilites and utility from runes. We have not been that that strong up until now in phase 3 where yeah, if the stars align then we can really pump for about 20 secs or so in a raid. Rage normalization is not classic wow and neither is SoD but that would be going too far in my opinion. For someone maining warr since launch, it would completely change the feel of playing warrior in a bad way, it's too late for that big of a change.
As long as there are world buffs warriors are going to be OP.
that's true luke. they did try no buffs in season of mastery and that didn't work out great either. i suppose future WBs will have to be more caster-oriented. but then that just means more power creep. do you think WBs are a problem or just a symptom of something bigger?
@@NOHITJEROME WB make it impossible to balance nearly anything in pve because it's literally playing two diff games with them or without them. The current ones and the expected level 60 ones all push the scaling classes through the roof with power and leave the less scaling classes even further behind. Higher armor values maybe helps?
damn so many worthless rogue runes still untouched😥
ahh..we need a sad dog commercial song playing with all the neglected runes. for just 39 cents a day you too can save a rogue rune
6:25
E V E R Y R O G U E ALL PHASE 2 lol....
We literally had to pick-up Tanking...or die as a raiding class, we're lucky we even got the turn around we did this phase.
yeah rogues got completely screwed last phase. even now with much higher damage i fear they aren't in a massively better place. though i would always want to bring rogues to a pug because i feel like they are much more trustworthy and reliable than most specs
As a warlock tank in pvp there is so little i can do theres like only two 1v1s i can win.
wait really? i thought you just won 100% of your 1v1s. are yooou sure
@@NOHITJEROME ooh i mean yeah. All of them.
Honestly I think the worst part of this phase is smaller guilds need another 10 people.
Just a word of advice, most guilds when they mapped out their phase 1 plans or formed and evolved in phase 1, knew that 20-40 man raiding would be coming long term. Mc is another 20 man and it could potentially require more for later end game. So take time this phase to expand your guild and make not only 1 20 man raid team but 2, so you’re ready for a 40 man change. In phase 1 many guilds ran 4 10 man raids for this reason, some even ran 8 or more. That way you’re ready for the future not just the current phase.
Agreed. I love watching lfg go by early in the reset asking for players 8/8 and then by the end of the lockout you see they ask for literally anyone
we were a small guild of typically the same 13ppl and alts raiding twice a lockout. for p3 we knew we needed more ppl so we and 2 other guilds with similar situation merged into 1 super guild and now we have 3 groups per lockout. we rarely pug a player unless 3-4 of us are out that night and it honestly feels like we've been raiding with the new ppl since p1 type of vibes.
Fair point Nils, and big guilds were designed around cliques and 10mans and now players are being left out. How does boomkin feel in this 20 man meta? Feel like you were playing it before and I’m curious
@@shart4211first of all I just realized this was you karashin - great yt name lmao - you make a good point about guilds planning in advance - but even with planning it is easy for someone to end up on the bench for example. You might run 1 rogue in each 10man but you don’t need 4 in mc
I mean without support classes warriors aren’t shit. Feral, hunter, shaman, warlock, even spriest (degrade) are necessary for a warrior to blast. Salute to all the support players who also crank in that role!
What balancing? There are classes that are putting out 30% more damage than the majority of the others and they haven’t touched them at all. You can really tell that the number of people working on SoD has at least halved since the season began. A lazy 50% damage nerf in PvP that did absolutely nothing to balance the classes that are gods, the classes that can’t remotely keep up with the burst of certain classes still can’t and they just made healing completely broken again like phase 1.
I think the problem is - nerfs feel really bad JT. So they keep buffing everyone else, buffing everyone else. But then that leads to the BIG problem which is that if everyone is strong, why bring any support or healers anymore? Ultimately you can buff boomkins and ele shamans all you want but if they do less damage than a war why would I bring one
Legit the funniest guy in the community. Keep it coming man! love the stuff 👍
yooo thanks so much faksen hope you are having a good day. cata prepatch or skipping it?
@@NOHITJEROME nah i wont be playing cata. I am coping for fresh era soon and too deep in SoD atm 🫠
If you want insane balance, go play retail.
retail balance doesn't look like a picnic either. mmo balancing is a mess
love editing :D thx for the video!
thanks a lot kivrus, that means a lot. I assume you are maining hunter - what do you think about the recent hunter buffs? they feel amazing for me, but they might be too strong
@@NOHITJEROMEyep, maiming MM hunter from phase1. So I really like how ranged hunter looks in this phase. And new buffs just added more fun to the gameplay - for pve we now have nice rotation and finally I can see myself topping the meters. So yeah, damage, CC - really cool. I can see that it might be OP in PvP but it is only until rogue/enh will get to you in melee. And world farming is insane - I like to solo High Chief Winterfall, thx for you previous video :D
I felt bad for unsubing but sod seems hopeless
yooo necrosis i'm sorry to hear you unsubbed. if you aren't playing one of the bis classes right now I understand the frustration. but the endgame should still be a blast, revisiting all the old raids with new modifications and the 20man limit will be cool. do you think you might revisit the game for p4?
Like you said I think they should design encounters in the raids in a way that variety of classes will be needed. Half of the encounters should be melee friendly and half ranged friendly. Then we should have small things which will just make classes useful.
it's a really good point 田中太郎 - it's not about making razuvius fights where the raid is almost impossible without say 6 boomkins. it's about making the raid easier overall IF you bring a variety of classes. because right now the raid is just not easier bringing a variety of classes. it's easier with class stacking
Good points Jerome. I think they should add some mechanics to raid fights like hodir in wotlk that made casters blast. That seems like a better idea than doing absurd armor increases.
really love the idea zdubzz, hodir was a really nice damage check that meant your raid needed a few casters, they got to blast and have something to look forward to each raid. i always was so excited to blast on hodir. wouldn't take much to encourage variety and discourage 14 war comps
Fundamental Problem - Warriors complain when they aren't #1 damage. Despite SoD being "meta breaking"
I'd love to see them as great tanks with middle of the pack dps. But warriors will rage.
Hm...I think there is something to the pre-conceived feelings about what classic should be playing a role in balancing. People want warriors at the top. It felt weird having warlocks and mages at the top didn't it? I think blizz wants it to feel like classic and part of classic is warriors. It's just..what's the point of all these new runes and new ways to play the game if we are just going to stack 15 of whatever the highest damage class is? Warriors aren't the only issue
Yeah, hurts my brain when they are searching for tanks all the time and then want to HR the good stuff xD