Kingdoms Forlorn First Impressions - I Don't Know If It's The Game Or The Genre...
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2024
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Kickstarter Link - bit.ly/3GP6n1p
Kingdoms Forlorn is a soloperative dungeon delver for 1-4 players with a focus on loot. Kingdoms Forlorn focus on personal stories and short delves into the titular kingdoms.
Into the Unknown will build upon their coop system given advantages to the next player in to turn order bringing a greater sense of working together.
You will explore forgotten kingdoms, fight battles with giant monsters or bands of minions, loot, craft, duel and, possibly, earn renown and fulfill your Heart’s Desire!
BGG Link - boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2...
TimeStamps:
0:00:00 - Introduction
0:00:24 - Why First Impressions?
0:03:20 - What Is This Game?
0:03:40 - The Story
0:05:18 - The Delves
0:08:45 - The Combat
0:11:10 - The Inverted Combat Paradigm
0:14:50 - Fiddliness
0:19:18 - Player Agency
0:22:38 - Teamwork
0:24:20 - Final Thoughts
5.0 - My absolutely favorite games. You can pry them out of my cold dead hands.
4.5 - Love this game! At the same time missing something that would make it a 5. Could be hard to table, lacking variability, a little light, etc.
4.0 - Really great game, almost always keeping, although has meaningful complaints as to what takes away from the experience.
3.5 - Really enjoyed, don't love it, may lose out to better games but the idea of never playing again is a bit sad.
3.0 - A good game, would play and suggest with the right people, if I never played it again wouldn't lose any sleep.
2.5 - A game I'd play again , but will never suggest it myself
2.0 - A game I don't want to play again
1.5 - A game I can't find any reason to recommend
1.0 - A game that is just bad.
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For media inquiries, please email me at alex@boardgameco.com 
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Thumbs up for trying a game that seams outside your comfort zone and giving an honest review. 👍
If you dislike the genre you can’t give an honest review. I dislike eurogames and i know i couldn’t do an objective review of any of them…
@@elisabethcruz2424 Objective and honest aren't really the same, though. You can be honest and subjective at the time.
I find it both funny and applaudable that on most Kickstarter/gameFound campaigns for board games, BoardGameCo's review is omitted in almost all board game's crow-funding campaigns, EVEN THOUGH THE DEVELOPER DID SENT HIM A COPY AND THE VIDEO IS UP IN RUclips, they attach review videos from ALL other board game focused RUclips channels, EXPECT for BoardGameCo's ! And then you watch Alex's review/first-impressions and you realize they excluded his video because he is the only one saying what he ACTUALLY thinks without being hindered by whether he rubs the developers the wrong way or not, he tells it like it is, he is not afraid to point out the con's and shortcomings of a boardgame, so message for everyone: before you back a Crow-funding campaign, do yourself a solid and CHECK ALEX'S REVIEW FIRST!
I also saw the other side of things as with Skytear Horde, they wanted to put Alex's name there so bad because he liked it :)
I won’t be considering his opinions talking about a game that belongs to a genre he dislikes. I don’t know why ITU sent him a prototype… by the way, i enjoy this channel just that i prefer back KF and pass on zombicides, a matter of preferences
This is not true but it may have happened before to all of us who create content.
@@elisabethcruz2424 exactly! It would be like me reviewing 4x games when I dont like them. Or reviewing mortal kombat when I hate fighting games bc all I play is first person shooters.
Sorry, but the reviewer who hates the genre I love doesn't weigh heavily with my decision to buy a game.
Thanks Alex for the effort you've put into sharing your impressions.
I've been keenly following this for quite a while after backing AT:O and ITU started sharing art and sneak peeks. While I appreciate it's a WIP there's just too much giving me pause to instantly back. I love the concept and can clearly see where they've got inspiration from and where ITU are attempting to innovate but there's a lot giving me pause.
I think I'll back for $1 and wait until I have AT:O on my table and I'm at least reassured that they can deliver outstanding gameplay and not just outstanding art and hype. Fingers crossed.
Listening to the points you make around agency, mechanics, theme and fiddliness makes me think about what it is I enjoy most about KD:M. Now, oddly, KD:M almost activity encourages you not to invest in a character because it's actually about the survivors as a whole and not one single character/player. Having said that, you definitely create your own narrative around survivors, particularly because of the fighting arts and disorders they gain and which fit the theme perfectly. Gear loadouts are developed and maximised as you gain materials during hunts and showdowns and again, they all drip with the theme of the KD:M world. I'm also a big fan of the three phases in KD:M. You make decisions about how to innovate and what you want to unlock in the Settlement phase. The Hunt phase is thematically linked and the randomness allows you again to create an emergent narrative. And finally the Showdown, the big boss battle at the end of each year, has an AI deck which is just excellently designed. Sure, KD:M is not for everyone but with so may games trying to emulate it, it deserves at least some praise for inspiring other designers.
So sorry for the looooong comment. I'm rubbish at succinct so thanks if you bothered to get this far!
Hey, did you already get AT: O? Would like to hear your opinion on it. Thinking of getting Kingdoms Forlorn, but I'm still very unsure
It's just too expensive and that's the end of that for me. I have already backed Aeon's Trespass and without actually experiencing that first, I won't back another game from the company. So I hope there'll be a 2nd campaign if it ends up being really good.
Good talk. Thanks again for all the effort you put into getting this out 👍
Absolutely. This is one of the harder games I've covered.
I always enjoy your authentic thoughts on games. Im definitely interested in this game. I backed Aeon Trespass but it hasn’t delivered yet. Im not keen on backing another project until I see their first one delivered to see what their finished product looks/plays like.
I had a chance to play the ato and personally prefer that one
Dude...your reviews are intelligent, insightful and not to be missed! Keep on!
Thanks for your personal impressions. It is great value to say something during developing time of such game. I hope developer will make changes and make game better and comfortable for playing. I wish it 🙂
Thank you for the honest review. I am still pumped for this game though!
I'm glad you're pumped :)
Thank you for your honest and well expressed opinion. This is very informative and helpful.
Appreciate it.
Thank you Alex ;-)
I discovered recently that I'm (we) more of a euro gamer, so I will also sell most of my recently acquired zombicide collection😢. Does save me a lot of money in the future with kickstarters for miniature heavy / dungeon games😁
Thank you for the detailed review between the dark story I think for my liking and the gameplay nitpicks you bring up make me think that this is one I will leave for others to enjoy
I watched the play through with you, Q, and Shira and I couldn’t tell if you were tired or just really not into the game… now I know =) Way to tough it out man! I appreciate your assessment of the game in it’s current form. I’m wary but I’ll keep an eye on it over the course of the campaign.
That was my second of 3 attempts into the game....I have not enjoyed any of them although all the caveats in this video should be applied.
Watched this video twice, and i agree very much with your judgment of the delve phase. Will you do a a dedicated back or not to back for this game? If not, in terms of value, do you think this game offers more than other gigantic games like oathsworn or primal? Its a very expensive game. Thanks
Very interesting thoughts sir!
Just watched your video as well :)
@@BoardGameCo I have sooooooooo many thoughts.
yeah, this is not gonna hit the table at my house. I want it still!
Uhhh maybe I'm crazy, but I'm pretty sure that Quackalope (and by extension BoardGameCo) completely misplayed the mob encounter. It seems like they didn't place the 2 activation tokens on the leftmost mobs and just entirely ignored the enemy phase. No wonder they felt like the fight was just walking around hitting things XD. So ya, to anyone listening to them about their impressions of the Clash, keep in mind that their mob clash was totally off. Sorry in advance if someone else already spotted this mistake or if I am myself mistaken.
To be fair to them though, this mistake is at least partially due to poor organization of the demo book. Right now, the fact that you need to put 2 activation tokens on the leftmost Ironcast Dead is ONLY mentioned in the "Activation Token" box on page 19 and not mentioned at all in the description of the set-up for the mob encounter later on.
I actually included a comment in the gameplay video of the mistakes in that last playthrough. Although we didn't ignore the enemy phase. I dove into it since that last play and before filming this.
@@BoardGameCo Thanks, I saw that right after posting this! I hope they pin your comment there.
I know it wasn't skipped in the fight against the Egg Knight. But I watched the Ironcast Dead fight several times and am pretty sure the mobs only got turns in response to your guys actions (which should be in addition to 2 mobs activating per every full round of player turns) and didn't see any activation tokens on any of the enemy body part cards...
Always enjoy your perspective. This game just seems like to much for me to get to the table. Looks cool though for those that love these type of games.
Yep, that's where I am.
I'm glad ITU sent a prototype with more advanced gameplay than a tutorial. I appreciate how hard it can be to jump into an advanced stage of a progressive, complicated system, but when I see tutorial content, I'm always thinking, meh, I wish I could see the full systems in action. I can never tell how a game actually plays from the earliest content precisely because it is simplified. Thanks for tackling this. I suspect we'll be able to play it ourselves on TTS soon, and I hope things will be polished enough by then that we can learn the rules quicker!
Great thoughtful preview. I appreciate that you're open about this maybe not being a genre for you, because that's kind of where I am as well, despite always being tempted by them.
So far the only ones that have really grabbed me, are Oathsworn and Primal, and they're very different games.
I'll probably keep my $1 pledge and wait and see. Give them time to convince me one way or the other.
Primal was amazing and oathsworn I'm very pulled in by
@@BoardGameCo yourself and One Stop Co-op Stop (specifically Michael Kelly) completely sold me on Primal.
Oathsworn was one I was not overly interested in when it launched, but the more I read the more interested I became. I think the card play is going to be really engaging, and it's probably my most anticipated game for this year (no way Primal lands in 2022).
Thx for the great and honest review. I can only afford 1 boss battler. Which one should I own ? Which one should you keep if you only had to keep one ?
From which options?
@@BoardGameCothe best for solo play. ..watched your latest video. Hope you are beter... it is your body saying to take it easy... and also a tip. Do you drink much coffee ? I had it too and disapeared after stopping drinken coffee. It messes with your sleep
Thanks Alex, I will be all in on this one (gameplay ofc). I hope its a beast, although I plan on mostly solo play for it. As an aside when I hear the word "fiddly" used to describe a game its always like nails on a chalk board. Fiddly is always used to describe magic realm. or ASL and they are masterpieces ... but its very much a subjective view. I view fiddly as a plus, I want heavy rule sets. I don't play games from Target. Enjoy your videos always, and appreciate you content sir!
Yeah it's definitely tough, for me personally, when I say fiddly, I tend to mean that they work involved managing, wasn't worth the payoff. Which is subjective.
@@BoardGameCo Haha yes, well you are also on a different level in terms of quantity of games played! And reviewed. And discussed! An epic effort my friend.That balance of work vs payoff would be much more in the spot light!
sounds like where i was a couple years ago..... now if there are too many moving parts my head explodes. I'm not back down to target levels but i'd rather put a game like champions of midgard or flashpoint on the table than KDM at this point.
Thanks
I am still fascinated of the game. Would it be possible to see a playthrough with quack?
Already on his channel :)
Hi Alex, thanks for your thoughts on a game I was looking forward to, but maybe now less so 🤔. How would you compare it to Middara or perhaps Eitherfields? given I have both, enjoy both but feel are both also a little fiddly in their own ways. Or is less dungeon crawler and boss battler seeing more comparisons to KDM and Oathsworn?
I don't know if I'd compare it to either fields, and I haven't played Middara. In terms of games I have played, it's most similar to wild ascent. I do recommend watching other coverage though, as I know opinions have been mixed on this one
How would you compare the writing of the story compared to something like Middara or ISS Vanguard?
I obviously haven’t played the game but the way you describe the delve phase might be a better idea then what midarra does, which is gives you pages and pages of story to read between missions. Which can cause you to skip it and read it later.
This delve phase might be a better idea.
Seeing as my favorite part of the delve was the story breaks...I might prefer Middara :)
Final thoughts remind me of my opinion on Tainted Grail. I love the story as well as all the world exploration, learning about my character as well as different parts of the island, but I just don't want to go through all the "maintenance" (gathering supplies and combat) and I con't bring myself to playing the other 2 campaigns because of it.
This game looks so intriguing to me. But I'm still awaiting delivery for ISS Vanguard, Sheol, Zerywia, Arkeis, and Oathsworn - other big box campaign style games (although I know a couple of those have one-shot modes) - as well as the fact Sankokushin is higher on my "big box campaign game want list". So it's a lot of inner turmoil for me deciding if I want to back this game lol.
Thanks for the video. Really helps me resist backing a little bit easier. A lot of mechanics seem interesting, while others seem not my cup of tea. The having to play 4-characters regardless of player count is definitely huge con for me. But I'm still a sucker for the aesthetic, lore, etc... 😐😓 I'll monitor the campaign to see if any designs or mechanics change. Thanks again.
I don't know why, but for it being a small funded game...SHEOL is one of my backed I'm looking forward to getting to the table the most.
This game looks very cool. Art style is great. Gives me some dark souls vibes. However... base game plus shipping will be about $200. I don't know if I want to gamble that price on something I'm not fully sure of
Yep, that's the nature of KS
Definitely a lot of hype around this game! Looks like it has potential.
I backed AT:O, but I can skip this one as I have too many boss-battlers and co-op fantasy campaign games in the queue.
Plus it's pretty darn pricey. I think some of that cost is due to VAT/taxes being subsidized by all backers. I know you did a separate video on VAT, but subsidizing VAT definitely goes in the list of "cons" when I'm deciding on whether or not to back a project.
Seems like they needed to do more work on this before it came to Kickstarter. Too many unknowns to know if this will be a good game for me. Maybe a $1 back but not a large pledge yet.
Personally I feel that way, but I've also seen positive feedback from at least two other channels...so maybe it's just not my genre.
The graphic design on the KS is awwwwful
Thank you for honest review, it makes me wonder about late pledge of storms under 🙃 especially that Ive backed ATO and it seems more fun than KF 🧐
Indeed Stormsunder looks way more fun than this for sure.
I think it's tough when people have Kingdom Death: Monster as the only real comparison because I think KDM is so much more different. Even harder when you're first impressions are off a prototype.
For me, the only real "KDM" like thing is the boss battles but mechanically there's a lot going on that's different especially when it comes to individual characters. I guess the only true comparison though is that it's going to be another "Hate it or love it" game.
KDM is one of my favourite games and so, I'm all for Kingdoms Forlorn. But I also see many people who say they weren't into KDM and also aren't interested in Kingdoms Forlorn so it makes sense.
As someone who has Aeon Trespass: Odyssey on the way, my hope is that as ambitious as Kingdoms Forlorn is, Aeon Trespass helped refine their dev skills enough that they can actually deliver a sound product. As the "Rules guy" in my group of friends, I don't mind a fiddly rulebook. just as long as the foundation is there for my friends and I to enjoy ourselves and the stories alone in this game sound like something my friends and I will love to read.
Great video though! I think it's important to have perspectives from people who aren't KDM style fans. Helps prevent people from falling into the hype that might not end up enjoying it.
So... delivery Jan 2024... I think there is time that you forget this prototype experience man... Thanks for the honest preview!!!
Lol fair
I don't know if you would like KDM, but for one of your Kingdoms Forlorn criticisms about upgrades not "feeling cool", that is definitely not one of KDM"s problems. Between fighting arts are rare gear, your survivors quickly begin to feel special... and then it sucks really badly when they die.
edit: I'm currently backing this game all-in, but I may drop my pledge before the end. I'm all-in with every last bit of KDM. And the game I've pledged that I'm looking forward to the most is Primal: The Awakening. This may be too similar to KDM to justify the purchase. I just don't know if it will get played. I've passed on every other KDM-like game in the past few years. I don't know if this will be any different. Primal is doing something much different. This seems like more of the same with some twists.
I went all in on ATO and I have been following this game for awhile. It looks like I will just go $1 as there are serious concerns about the quality of solo play and just the FUN factor.
For what it's worth, I enjoyed ATO a lot more.
I'm with you
Thanks for the thoughtful review. I backed ATO and was very excited for this game. When I watched Jesse's solo playthrough, I found the delve very uninteresting. I'll watch the playthrough you did with him, but so far, I think I'm going to pass on this one.
Game looks interesting, but also expensive and they haven't yet delivered their last KS game yet, so I think I won't back this but rather play through some games I own that I haven't played enough yet.
Off topic, but are you looking for Altar Quest?
Have a copy :)
@@BoardGameCo 👍 Saw on BGG that you were looking for one.
I agree that the delve phase looks like it could become tedious the less people you have. But, 3 or 4 people with different delve phase objectives would probably be great for my group as it encourages table talk and bartering to finish your objective (as long as the objectives aren’t always just gathering clue tokens)
Yes, I can see the Delve phase having more potential....but it depends on what they do with it.
@@BoardGameCo For sure. I’m always happy to see some skepticism for these kickstarters. Thank you for keeping my FOMO and hype in check
This seems to be a lot of the same that Aeon Trespass Odyssey did but in a dungeon crawler format. It's not surprising that if you weren't sold on ATO that this would be Luke warm for you too.
This was something I was pretty worried about having not been able to play ATO, was that there's no solid proof that Into The Unknown can make a great game. This is landing before people get their ATO pledges so it's a lot of blind faith
I received AT:O and after playing it, I all in backed KF. ItU is my new favorite game developers. If you contact them they're very responsive. They are extremely open to critique from play testers and actively work to make better whatever people dislike about the game.
Yea, I am starting to conclude that you just don't like this type of game. Heard the same exact criticisms on the Harakiri Adventure Phase that you are giving here on the Delve Phase.
Would be interesting to eventually get your take on KDM (even Tom Vasel is playing it). That would provide additional context.
Strange that you like CMON games like Zombicide and Cthulhu: Death May Die so much and yet you complain about dice rolling on games like this (those games also feature a lot of dice rolling). Almost every game of C:DMD comes down to a dice roll.
100% possible, but with 3 things to note.
1) With Harakiri, I liked the combat, just not the exploration phase. It had a ton of rules and then came down to luck, see point 3 below.
2) I have played and loved Primal and Wild Assent, and I only briefly played Oathsworn but really enjoyed that. That's not to contradict or anything, rather just the context I do have.
3) I don't mind dice. I do mind dice when you make me check 14 steps and it still comes down to a die roll. Either have the game be easy fun luck, or make me feel like I have agency....the specific aspect I don't like, is when you give me a ton of rules overhead, and it still comes down to a die roll. Or in this case, 5 different things that require dice rolls.
@@BoardGameCo You say you don't mind dice, but you literally complain about lots of checks with dice rolling on any of these games with role-play elements (which is what the Adventure Phase was on Harakiri and it is what the Delve Phase does here). Skill checks are a staple of any RPG and this dislike for them indicates to me that you are not into D&D (I believe that you have said that you played it once and did not like it). That is what I am referring to. You want agency over the result, but the whole idea of RPGs is that you don't have agency over the result and you must respond to whatever comes your way in the best way that you can. Real adventures aren't totally safe, aren't predictable, and aren't always under control. It is very clear to me as someone that has watched your videos for years that you do not seem to like that type of RPG gameplay. You only seem OK with dice rolls to resolve combat. Any RPG (like D&D or Call of Cthulhu or Traveller) "has tons of Rules and it comes down to dice rolls". The GM has flexibility to interpret exactly what the dice rolls mean, but that is a core principle of these types of games.
Note: Oathsworn has lots of these skill checks in story mode (I know, I am a collaborator and have played it). Perhaps, you just forgot. However, it does give you the option of drawing cards (like Gloomhaven) instead of dice rolls.
Primal really doesn't have much of a "settlement phase" or much of an RPG element. It just appeared to be a string of combats with some character progression. I haven't played Wild Assent myself, but the people that I know that have played both it and KDM call it KDM-lite.
Just ask Jesse what he thinks of Wild Assent vs. KDM.
Sorry but unless your dm sucks you have massive amounts of agency in a rpg. More than any board game. I think the problem with board game rpgs is unlike tabletop you have very little if any choice on how to respond to a situation. Both might have their results determined by a die roll but in a tabletop your agency is your imagination of what you can do with your pile of abilities. In a board game if its a one or even two choice die roll thats not much agency.
And that is why its hard to translate an rpg into a board game format.
@@derraldlosey1118 In an RPG, you have agency on what to do and what skill to use/test (if the GM buys into it), and agency in how to respond to success or failure, but you don't have agency over the result (the die roll is the die roll and you can always fail or get a critical failure). I agree that the GM can (and should) turn the failure into "fail-forward" and use the failure to complicate your path forward without derailing the game (and I would expect the same here).
Alex seems to want more agency over the result (a way to ensure success). At one point, he talks about a failed roll in combat as "wasting your turn" (Note: this CAN happen in Zombicide). There are a lot of "failed rolls" in KDM. You are not going to hit every time (nor would you in an actual battle).
It sounds like he wants something like in Arkham Horror the Card Game when you make your test in such a way that the only way you can fail is drawing the auto-fail token from the bag (you know you are still good at a -3 or -4 token) or some amount of guaranteed damage whether you succeed on your roll or not (some games do this, but not KDM).
@@Thomas-kx9op Hmm could be, although I took his complaint to be more that there just isn't much choice at all. You seem to have very little in the way of abilities, and very little in the way of meaningful choices about what you interact with or how. That was certainly the problem I saw with it. In some ways even zombicide seems to have more choice than his game and that game is about as light as it gets for dungeon crawlers. Even what choice you do have like which direction to go in the town are blind choices essentially. I love rpgs but having so many blind choices or no choice at all seems like poor design.
Now it might be because its a prototype, but I find it odd that the art, story, and minis seem basically done when the rules and mechanics of the game look like they are still in the concept phase.
This game needed more time, before releasing on kickstarter imho.
I broke my kickstarter drought, im in for a dollar.
👍
:)
I hope your friendship with quackalope survives after this video. Also why do you hate him so much that you havent played kdm with him.
I mean, I watched his comparison to KDM....he didn't seem to love this one either.
Fiddliness is a big problem with this game. I really want to like this game, but it looks all over the place and not cohesive. Looks like there's a lot of polishing still required for this game. If that's the case, expect to receive this game at least two years after the campaign ends. Risk feels high.
A game of this magnitude needs constant work. Development is HUGE here. All can say is the publisher has already responded to some of the feedback.
I believe they will put in the work but I don't disagree with your timeline...their last game has been taking awhile and that may well happen here too.
@@BoardGameCo their first game is shipping Q2.
Translation: No Pun Intended is going to Rip Through this game in its review like they did through Tainted Grail. Let's put bets on that. In the Tainted Grail review No Pun Intended literally threw the game in the garbage. Maybe they will burn this game at the end of their review? Who knows. The more ? will be what will Shut Up and Sit Down do in their review. Things that make you go Hmmm.
Lol if they even play it
Sorry to be a prig but I'm also an editor, and this is one thing that triggers my ancient blue pencil: The content from 0:00 to 3:20 isn't a disclaimer, it's a caveat. A disclaimer denies something, usu. legal responsibility. A caveat lays out the limitations of something, such as - in this case - your opinion of the game. We watch this video to get a sense of whether this game is for us... with the CAVEAT that it's a first impression because you're not reviewing the complete, finished, polished game. Apologies for this comment and I know it's not important but I just dream of a world where people say "but with that very very lengthy caveat about everything..." instead of "with that very very lengthy disclaimer about everthing..." Oh well!
ETA: Woah. At 8:18 you actually do call it a caveat. So well done you. I say we purge the term "disclaimer" from the review lexicon. It's as bad as "visually comma" and "delightful".
Your comment has me very conflicted. First of all, thank you. Secondly, the reason I'm conflicted is now I'm torn between using the accurate language, because generally I prefer to do that, versus the fact that I think titling a time stamp caveat versus disclaimer just doesn't have the same generally understood meaning. I'm not yet sure how I'm going to handle this 🙂
When it comes to these types of games, you throw out the word fiddly as to a reason why you don't like the game, however for me their are games in the past, that you claimed are fiddly, but when I got them to the table their not. For example Etherfields, you claim the slumbers and the travel mechanic outside of the Dream was fiddly, however when actually playing the game, the Slumbers and travel mechanic outside the game was one of the best ways to get stronger in the game. It then clicked to me in this vid, you see anything short of flashy powers and abilities as being Fiddly. So if its a simple resource gain, or a simple stat increase it isn't as fun, as getting a special cool power that changes the game state. For me that simple stat increase makes me feel stronger, so the game doesn't feel fiddly. That leads me to think that this type of game isn't for you, because most of them are more about the little tiny boosts to your character as opposed to a big game breaking boost.
Me and my buddy have been playing Etherfields for awhile now. As an rpg/wow gamer I love slowly building my deck up and getting incrementally stronger but I can see my friend getting bored and wanting to play something else…. My friend buys tons of games. I buy very very few, so I’m happy that campaign style games exist with interesting story and gameplay. I guess as a pc/console gamer I just view board games differently. I mean just looking at something like viticulture puts me to sleep
Firstly, I thought Etherfields was excellent, not without complaints, but excellent. And secondly, I agree that I don't appreciate minor stat gains that don't come with something more interesting, but that's unrelated to the fiddliness.
Take a look at the reviews...Quackslope spent 15 hours and went back and forth with the dev and didn't like this, and he loved KDM. Liege of games acknowledged how much is going on, and also had to spend a ton of time going back and forth with the company. That doesn't mean it's a bad game, but it does make me question whether this prototype was ready to be sent out.
@@BoardGameCo Its all fine, I just don't think we see things the same way and I realized that with this vid. While I like Flashy powers and abilities like you do, I see minor stat changes as equally powerful as those Flashy powers. Were on the other hand you seemed to be bummed out by them.
Now I am just confused what fiddliness is for you. Cause I have seen the term used for too much components in the game, and I have seen it used for games that are very complicated mechanics wise but make the game not fun because its over complicated.
I can see why you would say the prototype shouldn't be sent out, however it is still a prototype. I have seen worse then this in terms of components and rules. I just feel that people are expecting a more finished product then they should, just because certain game prototypes are really nice.
@@mendicant1981 Yep same here really enjoyed Etherfields. The game really rewards you late game, were you built yourself up during the early game.
@@CheddahSlammer haha yeah, I keep trying to explain that to my friend but he just stares at me blankly, especially when im obsessed with getting Ether to work towards building a stronger deck for late game whereas he simply wants to see the next slumber and muddle through!
Another game rushed to KS before being ready for it.
So while I totally respect this isn't you type of game, I knew it wouldn't be when it comes to games like this our tastes are so far apart its almost a good thing to me you didn't like it. :p
I've a question however, one of your complaints was lack of mitigation (which I'm dubious about knowing how these systems work you just need to learn the mitigation) and it was a bit of a die chucker with big impacts.. Its not that you feel this I'm puzzled by, I totally get it. Its that it bothers you here but then you believe Marvel Zombicide was worth $700 when all it is, is a beer and pretzels die chucker, with zero mitigation and absolutely zero strategic planning involved. Personally I don't think any zombiecide is ever worth more than $100, I think that's too steep for the type of game it is, but add to that I'm in the UK with VAT it wasn't even worth looking at to resell, it was absolutely a awful deal. The question is how can you recommend one game that's worse in the things you pointed out with a higher price point than the other one which has the same 'precieved issues'.
I'm not on a witch hunt, its a genuine question, you've always loved CMON games and Zombiecide so you loving it was never in doubt, especially with the IP you also love tagged on. But I think its a interesting question to ask why lack of mitigation and being at the fate of the dice bothers you in one system and not another?
I answer this in another comment, but the short version is I don't mind dice.. I do mind dice and a lack of mitigation when the game has this much rules overhead. Meaning I don't mind rules heavy euro games that have a ton going on, and I don't mind lighter dice chuckers....but I can't stand when you give me a 10 step combat sequence with tons of rules to the point that I know I'm never playing your game correctly....and yet it still comes down to luck as the biggest arbitar of how well you do.
@@BoardGameCo That's fair, I knew this game wasn't for you but I did wonder the above because it seemed weird. Anyway I hope you are well and happy gaming. :D
Something is off about this game. It does not get me excited at all. I love dungeon crawls and this seems just very gimmicky. I cant wait for League of Dungeneers as it looks like a much better version of this. Also Arydia seems to be accomplishing what this game is trying to do in a much better fashion. Watched playthoughs on Quakalope and a I fell asleep. For a a dungeon dive game this game does nothing to distinguish itself in a very competitive field. There are so many other games that just seem more worth my money right now. Like Return to dark tower or Chronicles of Drunegar. I feel your skeptism and I think you are right.
I agree.
100% agree.
with all do respect this isn't the same as Arydia or Chronicles of Drunegar. Their is a difference between a standard Dungeon Crawl, and a Strategic Dungeon Crawl. Standard Dungeon Crawls are more about gaining that loot, and getting stronger, while Strategic Dungeon Crawls are more about how you do it. Its all about what you personally like. Many feel games like Chronicles of Drunegar are too light, to the point they are boring because their is no strategy to continue. While others would like this game because of its strategic depth, even though it has less reward for it.
"Often felt more fiddly than fun". I think that description will fit Aeon Trespass, too. That one feels like a mash of the most popular game mechanics at the moment that they want to cash on. Besides, AT hasn't even been delivered yet. Hard pass. Besides, it's expensive and looks kind of bland.
Seems very Monty Python meets Kingdom Death. Two things I love, but didn’t need to have a child.
Combination of ideas I love and dislike. Solid pass. Game needs to much development from a young company that their first big game hasn’t delivered yet.
My big problem is what I loved was the many kingdom idea. I see one kingdom. And Im not impressed.
The game seems too fiddly and complicated. And i like game that have depth in the gameplay. Both you and Jessy struggled with the rules and that’s after hours and hours of reading the rulebook. The inspiration from Diablo is no where to be seen. The loot item look uninteresting. There are no chess with loot,no gems to enchance your equipment,amulets,rings,boots with crazy fun and unique abilities .The player knight decks has only small abilities that have no big impact on the combat and the knight are not that different. This game is basically Dark Soul and not Diablo. Other games provide crazy and fun unique loot at the start of the game. Completely a miss for me. Will wait for Oathsworn ans Stormsunder.
Yep, Jesse put more than 10 hours into learning it and that's with contacting the dev. I've ready the rules at least 3 times...the information is mostly there, but it's just a lot as far as the phases....this game didn't feel like fun to me, it felt like work and with no real payoff....but again...could just be this isn't the genre for me.
It’s getting to the point that I’m not sure if you should be previewing games from a genre that you don’t like… More positive videos instead please
Oh I agree, but I don't know if I don't like this genre. I know I like Primal, I know I like Oathsworn, I like Too Many Bones, Wild Assent....this one is a step beyond...and I don't know if I do or don't like it. By all accounts I should....but maybe this is a step too far.
@@BoardGameCo Fair play i guess im like that with video games. wow is great for me, but something as heavy as path of exile is a big turn off. just fyi, obviously i don't always share the same opinion on your videos but i watch your's above all others as the presentation is excellent and you always justify your opinions! keep up the good work!