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The Sinner and The Curse (Spoilers for "Caribert": Genshin Impact 3.5 Lore, Theory, & Speculation)
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- Опубликовано: 17 авг 2024
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I think Kaeya is lying. He was clearly aware that Dain was around listening, so I think everything he said, including the mentioning of his last name, was on purpose to lure him out.
My theory is Kaeya was up to something and needed us to get Dain off his trail
One thing I find interesting was the word choice of ‘Caribert is my illegitimate son’. It was a very strange word choice instead of just ‘he is my son’. That’s why I personally don’t think Caribert and Kaeya are the same person. It came across that he loved Caribert greatly whereas Kaeya was treated as a tool.
I find it awfully convenient for Kaeya to visit Sumeru when the Sinner appears there. Not to mention the Defiled Statue happened in Monstadt while Kaeya was in Monstadt. I dunno how Kaeya is tied to this, all I know...when these things happen, Kaeya is there...and besides him, the traveller and Dain there are no other people who we know of that have been at the same time at the same area when this occurances happened.
My biggest question is what's up with the Khaenri'ah/Abyss' obsession with sending their people to Mondstadt? Kaeya's father sent him there and Rhinedottir too sent Albedo. Why Mondstadt of all places? They also used the Anemo Arcon statue.
I think the Freedom of Mondstadt could be the new better home for them
Mondstad is a place were you drop of somone it's like kindergarden
I know nordic and germanic cultures are similar irl, so maybe there's something about mondstadt that resonsates with khaenri'ah?
Maybe we'll know in Venti story quest act 2?
I mean the archon statue does have writings in it saying the gateway to celestial so that might be a plot point after snezchnaya
Man i wish Kaeya was a bigger part of this quest
plot twist: Kaeya is Caribert after getting the curse removed thus the entire quest was actually his backstory that he doesn't fully remember
@@MarineNyx mind blown
@@MarineNyx and then his father found a way to remove curse and buried himself
I think it's sus that we had this dream right when the abyss was messing with the lay lines. I feel like they knew where we were, and set this memory upon us intentionally.
WHAT A QUEST! This Quest really made me notice the difference in Kaeya's and Dain's eyes too! Also the Sinner's identity being Naberius makes a lot of sense, if they go through that route I wonder what Rhinedottir plans to do with the Eye of Naberius D:
Threads of fate will be yours to re-weave. Fate...
It sounds as if fate is rather important to this story who would have guessed
Danlslef probably
It also makes me think of mona’s voiceline about kaeya “He believes he has made a clean break with his past, but one day fate will catch up with him. When it does, he will have a major decision to make.
@@veera7336 yooooo
I’m definitely on the theory the voice could of been King Irnmin.
Its also scaring me that Paimon has so many death flags coming on now. We even hugged her, the one who teases Emergency Food. Something bad is going to happen soon…
But I’m SO SAD this quest was so short and we will take a year to see Dain again to further it…Just sucks we are spoon fed information unlike consol games that give you a full story to love all at once. Something just not satisfying anymore the more this game goes on for me.
I get very worried for Paimon all the time too tbh, BUT
This quest actually felt to me like the implication is sort of that Paimon is our conscience or the "angel on your shoulder". BECAUSE Dain was supposed to sort of be our siblings Paimon, so to speak and it was only during their brief parting when the abyss sibling was away from Dain that this whole situation happened and they were corrupted, which is why Dain didn't know what happened. It felt to me like the story was showing us that Paimon is not only our teyvat guide, but also our normal or spiritual guide.
It's also interesting to note that during the travellers darker moments, they asked Paimon to do something else out of earshot or went off on their own for a bit, which is what drives the whole "angel on the shoulder" idea for me.
I feel like if we DO lose Paimon, we'll succumb to corruption, so I think it will come down to a decision for the traveller.
Also maybe I'm just coping bc I ugly cried when Paimon was crying after she thought she lost us
@@katcrow woah. That’s an interesting theory. It’d be interesting if this was setup for Fontaine.
Like, we get separated and Traveler just has it at one point because she isn’t there, and that’s what starts the whole Traveler vs Fontaine court system arc.
Then Paimon is like “I’ll never leave you again, gosh…” xD
Nah they aren't gonna kill paimon
@@katcrow i'm so worried about her as well. I actually did miss her during the whole quest. Like maybe she was cooked up by Chlothar or something. But I have this suspicion that Paimon might've been erased from the Irminsul Tree that's why nobody knows her in the present time. As to what reason, we don't know. Perhaps she wagered her life/existence to save a few or teyvat itself with Celestia during the cataclysm. Or she could be the Ancestor Seelie who married an outlander who were later on both her and the outlander's memories wiped as the consequence. if that was the case, who was the outlander? so far, we know that there have been 4 descenders. So, thats the siblings 2, one could be the Primordial One (maybe he could be that lover or one of his shades), and the other one, we have no idea who yet. I don't know. lol but really, regardless of what everyone says, I love Paimon.
Caribert was the illegitimate son, does that mean that Kaeya is descendant of a legitimate line?
It's not the matter of illegitimacy. It's about pure blood and non pure blood.
Kaeya is a descendant of Clothar, which means he probably remarried and banged another girl after the cataclysm. Clothar died long ago before Kaeya was born, so no, he's not legitimate or pure blooded. And it means that either Clothar cured his curse and had a child afterwards, or the curse was just a one-time thing, and khaenrians probably can reproduce themselves back. But yeah, this quest doesn't give us much about kaeya that we didn't already knew.
Everyone else in the game says that nobody can escape their fate. Literally everyone.
Yet, the “Sinner” tells them to “Go forth, become a transcendent one, rise beyond the fate bestowed upon you…”
The Sinner is basically telling them to defy fate.
That, in my opinion, means that the Sinner might be able to… manipulate, anybody who is desperate to escape their fate, by promising that they can defy it.
And Mona’s lines about Kaeya say that “fate will catch up with him”, and that “he will have a major decision to make”. We all assume that he would choose Mondstadt over the abyss/Khaenri’ah, because- well, why wouldn’t he? But, what if the Sinner ends up promising him something?
Hmm, definitely something to remember when as we continue into the future of Genshin.
As for the identity of the Sinner, as well as being King Irmin, they could also be a shade of the Primordial one, right? Because they rise above Space and Time. Just speculation tho.
Chlothar went on, from the end of the quest, to create the “defiled statue”, right? From what I can tell, he was trying to mimic what the Sinner looked like. The choice to use a statue of the seven is an interesting one then. Perhaps the Sinner also had a statue of the seven within it, which would explain his thoughts in using the statue of the seven? Or not, who knows?
Also, Chlothar in real life had multiple children, I’m relatively certain. One called “Charibert”, of course.
If Kaeya is supposed to be the descendent of Chlothar, as Dainsleif said, then…
That would either make him a descendent of Caribert, or Chlothar’s other child, if he has one.
Yet, if Kaeya doesn’t have the curse, then surely it makes more sense for him to be a descendent of Caribert instead? Because… he would be cured, right?
Then again- we don’t know what *happened* to Caribert. But at least we’ve rounded it down to two options, I guess?
Also, was Halfdan pureblood or not? Because he had eyes very similar to Dainsleif’s, but they were also a little smaller. Is that to say that he was a mixed blood, and that’s why he turned into a serpent knight thing?
And why did they turn into the knight things to begin with? Were they given ‘special treatment’ too, because they used to be knights as well? But why??
Also, heavy speculation here, but-
I feel like the current leader of the abyss order might be Pierro.
Sounds random, but hear me out. Not only does he look very similar to Kaeya, outfit-wise, but just remember what happened to some of the harbingers after they encountered the abyss.
They were mysteriously recruited to the Fatui to become harbingers.
(Also? I would prefer the current leader of the abyss order to have a cool design, like Pierro’s, rather than an NPC design because Hoyoverse clearly isn’t afraid to do that! So I’m just going to hope it’s Pierro.)
I’ve got much more to say, but I’ve also got zero evidence to support any of my thoughts, so I’m not going to mention them here yet LMAO.
Anyways, amazing video as always!!! I’ve been looking for theory videos on 3.5 and this is the first one I’ve seen lmao- you were pretty quick with uploading this!
I wish Dainsleif had stayed a little longer with us, but, oh well. Guess they’re saving even juicier lore for next time.
Hope Kaeya might return in the next one too, but… idk. Maybe Hoyoverse is just laughing at us rn, and is saving Kaeya’s next appearance for the Khaenri’ah arc ;-;
Have a wonderful day, as always! Cya! ✨
PS, some people are speculating that Caribert might be Kaeya. But, that’s probably false. Not only because the memory is from like, a few hundred years ago, but we heard Kaeya’s dad’s voice in the Weinslesefest event. And he sounded nothing like Chlothar in the quest.
I think the crystal energy could be the second who came
"Fate is called as such, for it cannot be changed, nor can it be reversed. It can only but be accepted."
I'm also sad that we didn't get more Kaeya screentime. Feels like a waste.
On the Sinner, my bet is on him being King Irmin, but he was a regular king until he found the forbidden knowledge of the abyss.
I think Kaeya is definitely half-blood kanhenrian.
I think Caribert became a higher creature of the abyss, an Abyss Herald.
Clothar was in pain during the scene when Caribert is about to take his mask off. But after we wake up, he is happy and hopefull. About Caribert he said "Is wonderful. He will weave his own destiny". Caribert became a "trascendent one" who raised "beyond the fate bestowed upon" him.
The common theme of defying one's fate, makes one a "sinner" repeats once again.
When we met the Cryo herald, Clothar thought how perfect he was. The said he was in awe.
I believe the abyssal power can turn hilichurls into stronger, sentient, smarter creatures. Maybe that's why we see Hilichurls bowing down to the Sinner/Irmin. The promise of a better, powerful state of being, free from the curse. Also the promise of revenge against Celestia. And so was the Abyss Order born.
We know Abyss Heralds can take human form if they wish so. It makes sense for Caribert to be able to procreate with a human woman, in his human form. Or with kanhenrian women that got the "cure" as well.
That's why Kaeya is not cursed. Pierro doesn't seem cursed either. Is obvious they are related, i just don't know to what extent. Since Clothar could have also had more children, abyss power granted (personally I think Pierro is Kaeya's grandfather)
Also, Kaeya in his voice lines when he talks about Kahenriah, he says
The legacy of Khaenri'ah is long gone. The sinners are all that's left, and they're not worth mentioning.
Surely he knows more than he tells us.
Anyway this quest was awesome, left me hungry for more lore. 😭😭
Completely agree with this.
Agreed. But for pierro we don't know yet. I assumed that he was cursed with immortality too. He's already lived for hundreds years from what wanderer said. If you look at pierro's eye, he also has star-shaped eye like dain and chlotar so he might be one of the pure-blooded khaenri'ah.
And why do i see you a lot? Like everywhere i watch about the lore and theory that related to kaeya?
If that's the case, does that mean the crystal being is not directly involved in the abyss order plot, because only he can transform the hilichurls directly? I said this because in the chasm, clearly the siblings are trying to do the same thing the crystal did, to transform and "cure" the hilichurls. As if she's trying to replicate his power. If it is involved then there wouldn't be any need for the siblings to attempt many wild projects like the loom of fate because the crystal can just do it?
@@habadini because I'm a gigachad Kaeya main and I love lore 🤭😎
@@habadinithis. Pierro is also cursed with immortality. Wanderer straight up told us that he was in the Khaenri'ahn court with our sibling. So he's been around for 500 years at LEAST
I do think Kaeya’s role as Kheanri’a’s last hope will be soon revealed. And I still think he has the curse and his covered eye might mean something. Think about how the hillichrul cover their faces with mask, Or dont have a features on their faces. The topic of the video is very interesting!
It's pointed out in the Diluc skin event that the eyepatch was because Diluc injured Kaeya's eye during a fight after he revealed he was from Khaenri'ah
before their fight Kaeya also wore eyepatch! U can see it in manga, too@@seonsunnysunshine
I feel like the Sinner wasn’t talking to the sibling. I think he was talking to US the traveler THROUGH the sibling.
If Kaeya is descended from Clothar, then Kaeya is by necessity a descendant of Caribert, since Caribert is the only child we know Clothar had. Meaning Clothar succeeded in turning Caribert human again. He probably broke both his own curse and Caribert’s, letting him die while letting Caribert live as a human again. So Kaeya not being affected by the curse and aging normally is due to Caribert being cured of the curse and his descendants also being free of it.
Another possibility is that Caribert was the human skelleton buried under the farm. That Caribert was cured of the curse, lived his life, then died. And that would leave Clothar to bury him and then go mad, maybe disappearing into the abyss. I know we were TOLD that Clothar’s skeleton was the one under the farm but that might be the writers intentionally misleading us.
I wonder how Kaeya fits into the Loom of Fate situation. He’s definitely important to it in some way.
We meet kaeya in the same Archon Quest that we meet a Cryo Herald. Hmmmm, if that is not a suspicious coincidence i dont know what is...
From the new five-star claymore "Beacon of the Reed See", the weapon story claims that "Like the eye that shone with a golden light and the noble heart, King Deshret was once the destination of all paths..."If I understand it correctly, King Deshret only has one eye (in chinese the description is 独目, literally means single eye). And Khaenri'ah contributes the most amount of people who have one eye or only show one eye to other: Irmin, Kaeya, and also the Jester.
Given the fact that Khaenri'ah is under somewhere near Sumeru, King Deshret may have some sort of connection to Khaenri'ah. And dont forget the the people of Khaenri'ah were the ones who somehow fulfill the ambition of King Deshret and the goddess of flower. As stated in "Wilting Feast" in Flower of Paradise Lost artifact set:
"You seek but to chain the winds. Upon the tombstone of divinity shall humanity become the god of gods."
"Such a carefree dream was certain to be unmade. In ruins where lies are sundered, humanity will become the king of kings."
Brilliant as she was, even she could not easily predict when these little beings would finally realize the truth...
"... Have these so-called gods not been superfluous to you since the beginning?"
So I'm EN only unfortunately, but could you direct me to where 独目 is used for Deshret? This is super interesting, and I've heard others speculate about Deshret-Irmin connections on Reddit (for those interested this was the first post I saw on it: www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Lore/comments/10t6pnj/why_king_deshret_might_be_irmin/ this argues they're the same, I'm a bit of a skeptic because they seem to be doing a lot on their own chronologically, but I can't deny some parallels or similarities). I did also see a theory on reddit comparing Deshret's purple crystal in the Rukkhadevata 'Forbidden Knowledge' cutscene to the crystal here. There are some parts that make sense, some that don't, but they're all interesting, at the very least.
My intuition is that if Khaenri'ah is "near" Sumeru there certainly could have been some interaction or connection, but also some of the themes at the very least could be... cycles? Even just frame stories? I have no clear answer yet.
It's definitely food for thought that I'm still chewing on. Thank you so much for this info!
@@roozeveltfox 「如灿金的独目,高贵的心,赤王曾是一切道路的终点…」corresponds to "Like the eye that shone with a golden light and the noble heart, King Deshret was once the destination of all paths..."
In fact, I am still not sure whether "the eye that shone with a golden light" and "the noble heart" modifer King Deshret. Even in Chinese I can't comfirm. Although "the eye" (single) is used to express singularity, it could be ignored easily when we glimpse through. However, in Chinese, 独目 draws my attention immediately so I really want to share that there is a probability of King Deshret being one-eyed.
I have summary about this archons quest lore bomb.
First we already know that our abyys siblings is indeed Princess/prince from khaenriah ( not just simple high rank noble from abyys ).
And if you look up more to the gnostic chorus it's actually really I mean REALLY resemblance of Our journey/ abyys journey.. how so?
First.. our abyys siblings got summoned there because Khaenriah pray/ asking for help.. but litte they know our twin actually got forced to get there by Celestia ( banished her/him to khaenriah ).
And we got something about the 'Purple Thing' or 'Sinner'. What if the 7 were summoned to the khaenriah and even Celestia itself going there.. actually Confronting the 'sinner' not just destroying khaenriah but the whole khaenriah at that time is already got consumed by Its power ( abyys ).
And remember Raiden ei said about khaenriah.. he said 'That Thing' ← she afraid of it, what if 'That Thing' is actually the 'sinner'!
I mean.. why Tevyat need 7 archons and Celestia itself to take care it if not something Greater something evil Is actually happening in khaenriah which they can't handle ( khaenriah people.
The sinner could be the second who came which Goddess of flower said.. the second brought illusion and delusion.
I decided to not even touch on new sibling lore yet because of how much there is.
Ei's line about "That Thing".... Eldritch Horror-Sinner would be soooo cool.
This quest has me somewhat convinced that the loom of fate is kaeya, a machine might be involved but it's mostly a person
It's explicitly stated that it's Caribert though. Like that is actual dialogue from the quest.
You using a manga panel reminded me--The Caribert quest seems to highlight the difference b/w Kaeya's pupil and Dainsleif's, but in all the official art including his pull art make the diamond much more pronounced, and the difference less noticeable. It's drawn so consistently in art that I'm wondering if it's on his reference sheet given to artists, and if so then what is it supposed to "truly" look like? The game version or the rendered art?
I too, actually, connected The Sinner to a shade. If we go by Artifact theory (four shades are: life, death, eon and eonothem while phanes is logos), The Sinner kinda fits for the shade of Eonothem or Space/Void. The whole dungeon we go through had Space related mechanics (teleport, upside down) and the Void is quite literal connection to the Abyss and Void realm IMO.
The Sinner HIGHLY reminds me of Herrschers from Honkai. I don't know enough about Honkai to make a clear connection but the way the Sinner looks like a Herrscher core is REALLY interesting.
oh my god okay i just haf to comment this cause
i was watching thjs video in the background and then i got the one genshin ad youtube loves to show me.
of caribert going "i cant take it" then dain goind "i think that he might have seen you."
RIGHT AFTER you finished summing up the quest, saying dains line.
my jaw fucking dropped at the coincidence like holy damn i know its just the yt algorithm feeding it to me man, the timing was fuckigg impeccable, i wish i could record it lmao.
Paimon’s hair pin beging the same shape as Khaenri’ah pure blood eyes gives to believe that she comes from there too. I also get the feeling that the divine principles and the sky being fake are all LINKED
I think towards the endgame, Kaeya will have much of a prominent role since we now know he is a descender of the abyss order and because of what Mona said about him in her voice line
I knew the moment I found out about Caribert, yours is a video I'd be looking forward to most! XD
honestly the thing with abyssal corruption is still making me stretch my braincells to unerstand, specially because everytime we learn more about the abyss I always go back to look at Foul Legacy, seeing that it is a manifestation of abyssal power. Also, the cryo herald had the same starry effects in some of his attacks as Dainsleif, and yet, because the abyss order didn't exist yet then, just where do lectors and heralds come from? In away as I see we have 1) the hilichurl curse which is universal in a way because not only khaenri'ahns were cursed with it but also many other civilizations seeing hilichurls existed long before Khaenri'ah's fall and only exploded in number after the cataclysm 2) Heralds, lectors and Foul legacy are manifestations of abyssal power but not exclusive to neither Khaenri'ahns (thanks childe) nor the abyss order 3) The curse of imortality apparently does not cause the appearence of the cursed to change and yet dainsleif has a strange power clinging to his arm and face, additionally, In the teyvat trailer it is implied that Dainsleif's power is a "power from beyond" and linked to whatever it is that has made his arm and face weird so whatever power the cryo lector had was possibly linked to that, and seeing it was the keeper of the fates end and the only thing that seems to be capable of defying fate is the traveler, who comes from beyond teyvat (theoretically) and yet uses a power much similar to light than starry, there is something in there that we don't know 4) Something happened to the Alberich bloodline and either Clothar had other children or Caribear broke the curse and had his own descendants himself so this would explain why Kaeya apparently does not have any curse 5) There is something behind that eyepatch of Kaeya, if not, there is a meaning behind him wearing it 6) Grandpa Alberich shares too many similarities with the actions of the dwarf Alberich from Das Rhinegold, who stole a golden piece from three maidens and that piece was capable of absurd power, and dwarf Alberich was cursed by the Maidens.
Khaenri'ah lore is wild
17:06 no, it was Zhongli's doing afaik, like Guyun. And the celestial nail also played a part.
Also, the most plausible theory is The Second Who Came. Because Irmin isn't really mentioned like that. Neither is Neberius (however TF you spell it). Certainly not in any omnipotent capacity. And since the "sinner" saw us (current day traveler) through our link to our sibling's memories......it absolutely makes sense that it's a primordial being. Someone who had the power to make (or remake in the Second Who Came's case) the world and all living creatures on it.
Edit: coming back to this after 4.8 and man....it was NONE of the options listed. Who would have seen Dain's brother being nigh omnipotent coming??? Also, playable Vedrfolnir when???
I was always under the impression that the curse was a one off thing. That it only affected those present at the cataclysm. It makes no sense that if two pure bloods survived and had a kid, that theyre automatically immortal. If thats the case, Khaenrians could easily rebuild their nation of immortals. Or on the opposite end, that if a pure blood has a child with a non Khaenrian that theyll automatically become a hilichurl.
So I assume either Kaeya is descened from Clothar himself, his son Caribert when he was cured, or another direct relative like a sibling of Clothar that wasnt mentioned. Either way, I believe Kaeya is definitely a half blood.
I love your lore analyses more than others!
because...yeah...they make sence!
thanks for this I enjoyed it
Maybe the difference in transformations for the Khaenri'ahn's who transferred is that for Abyss Mages, Lecters, and Harolds they were Khaenri'ahn's who embraced the abyssal power the Khaenri'ahn's who were not full-blooded and didn't embrace the abyssal power or were unaware were turned into hilichurl
2 or 3 days ago i commented on a short that was about the new dain quest and in my comment i mentioned that kaeyas pupils where smaller than the ones of dain or pierros which could indicate that he could be half Khaenri'ahn and maybe sumerian (bc of his skin and hair color). actually thought I was the only one who noticed this so when you said something about it in the vid i was actually very happy! ( 'v' )
What if a strongly expressed allogene was the difference. Between changing into hillychurls and other transformations. The closer you were to celestia the harder it would be to be corrupted. The khaenri'ahns didn't have a god when they fell but that doesn't mean they weren't related to one in the past. Or conversely they were decended from a decender and the ones who transformed when cursed or infected with abyssal energy were only those of 'mixed' blood
another thing about why i think kaeya is not a pure blood khaenrhian.
his skin colour is a bit much darker than dainsleif and eide who are pure blood. and we know that Mihoyo didn't do many dark-skinned characters, it can't be just an insignificant detail.
There should be more black-skinned characters in Natlan. But keaya said that Sumeru is his hometown, and Sumeru also has a lot of black skin, so it is more likely that keaya is a mixed race. It is strange that he did not become Hilichurl.
@@lmltwan-mq2bi when did Kaeya say Sumeru is his hometown? He only said he snuck aboard because he read in a book that Khaenri'ah was located below Sumeru.
@@lmltwan-mq2bi Kaeya was born after cursing was over, so if he wasn't cursed before, he won't be. He also is aging normally.
@@lmltwan-mq2bi I think in manga they explained that a lot of peoples in Natlan moved to Mondstad? So, basically, Kaeya Mother could be mix Mondstad+Natlan race and she could be Calibert Mother (and he could be Calibert himself?)
i think the reason kaeya is isnt a hilichurl is because he was born after the curses where applied to them
Wasn’t said that pure blood khaenri'ahns didn’t turn into hilichurls but we’re cursed with immortality. Which is why calibert was turned into one because he is only half khaneriahn. Since his mother was from somewhere else and moved to khaneriah because she didn’t believe in the 7. Meaning kaeya is a full blooded khaneriahn.
Crack Theory: What if Kaeays mother was a descendent of King Deshret?
I mean him and Candace look oddly similar and although I know that’s not enough to go on I still would find that idea interesting
the question that still bugs me - it’s said that gods cursed khaenriah people, and ok I get the curse of immortality but the wilderness curse? gods do not control the abyss so how could they curse someone with abyssal power?
Hilichurls don't have abyssal power. However abyss mages and heralds do.
The one hilichurl we see cursed or gifted with, depending on how you see it, is Caribert. And we don't know what happened to him.
yeah, so I had previously thought that hilichurls were a consequence of abyssal corruption -- particularly because Shiruyeh's Plague seemed to be another incidence of abyssal corruption (as Liloupar said) and hilichurls (people losing their faces and language), but without celestial interference.
but Clothar says that there are two different curses, the half-Khaenri'ahn one being the "curse of the wilderness"
I honestly can't resolve it myself 🤷♀ UNLESS I did some crack theorizing about how full-Khaenri'ahns were immune from the curse of the wilderness, and only suffered from immortality, but all Khaenri'ahns suffered from immortality (which may?? also be backed up form the chasm incident where Dain, the BSKs, and hilis were ALL suffering the 'cleansing' ritual.) But even then I don't have a complete idea! I hate this game /lovingly
About the curse of immortality: what if the people of Khaenri'ah wanted to not only surpass the gods but obtain their status and level of immortality. By becoming immortal themselves it forces them to experience what life is like for the gods. They shepherd humanity, watching their friends die in the archon war and human generations pass without even ageing even slightly, experiencing the horrors and strifes of the world for centuries by themselves, and taking on the heavy responsibilities/fates that come with being a god. Including, the fate of simply knowing too much, and losing their mind to erosion.
Yet they still aren't willing to feel sympathy or even empathy for the gods because of the destruction of Khaenri'ah.
I think the 2nd throne is indeed the Abyss - makes sense if it is, and can undo Celestia's curse AND change fate.
In such case, theoretically 3rd Descender and Traveler could be able to do it as well.
The thing with Kaeya is that he's not a hilichurl (obviously, have you seen a hilichurl as beautiful as my baby girl?). But he's also able to age (he grew up with Diluc). So is he not affected because he was born after the Boom or being immortal implies that he will grow to a certain age (about 20 ish) then stops.
I've been thinking about the line where Clothar says Caribert has become the 'loom of fate', and I wonder if when Clothar prayed in front of the purple crystal and then fed it to his son, this allowed whatever is imprisoned in the crystal to become free. It couldn't use the worshipping hilichurls as a vessel because they're already under another gods dominion, but because Clothar was from Khanria he could use him as a medium to escape. Perhaps Caribert turned into whatever was trapped in the crystal when he took off his mask? Would explain why there was nothing left when we went back down after 'healing' Caribert.
i thought that as well. because we did see that aura transfer to chlothar. so most probably, he used chlothar as a vessel to get out of there since "the Sinner" was chained up.
Maybe he simply used Caribert as a vessel then roam around and look for a better vessel, or he's still inside Chlothar and fake his death by putting that scarf together with the fake body
yall after all that i am never ever going to kill a single hilichurl ever again
The sinner is the first god perhaps. Failing to protect teyvat is his sin.
If you need high-quality footage from quests in the future, you can ask me; I play on full graphics, which helps a lot for these kids of vids
i appreciate the offer! but for now I think my scuffed mobile playing adds to the charm and experience /delusion (i'll let you know if i change my mind because mobile playing is a struggle)
Great listen, fantastic vid!
Do you think that the Sleeper tribe of Hilichurls that you see so many of scattered in the desert, are former citizens of King Deshret with their longing for the golden Slumber, as contrasted with the Eclipse tribe of Hilichurls? And if so do you think there's any connection between them and the "Fortune Lector"?
They're part of khaenriah ruin golem soldier
i love your channel icon hehehe sily tibetan fox kaeya
Just a couple of thoughts I'd like to add regarding the Kaeya discussion. Mind you, these thoughts mainly come from when the Caribert quest was still new and fresh and we didn't have the additional Kaeya lore crumbs we've gotten since then, because bringing that info in might not necessarily be fair:
1. Someone else in the comments brought it up already, but I'll mention it here: It could be that the curse was a one-off thing, not something that continually re-applied itself over more generations of Khaenri'ahns. That's what I'd always assumed, as it just didn't make logical sense to me for the curse of immortality or hilichurlism to keep being applied to any new khaenri'ahns born. If this is the case, and the curse is indeed a one-off thing, then there's an easy explanation for why there'd be a khaenri'ahn population still around to eventually produce Kaeya, and why Kaeya would be unaffected by the curse. The immortal pureblood khaenri'ahns could've easily had kids amongst each other, giving birth to mortal children who would grow up and have kids of their own and die, and those kids may have descendants of their own, and so on. And all of these khaenri'ahns, because they were born after the cataclysm, would've been unaffected by the curses. That would include Kaeya. Now, we don't know if this is true, since we don't know if the curse was indeed a one-off thing, but it seems like such a simple solution that surprisingly few theorists seem to consider that I really wanted to bring it up.
2. As pointed out in the video, there are heavy implications that Kaeya is not a pureblood Khaenri'ahn, and I'm glad those were highlighted. That said, I do think there is one last factor to consider which further supports the idea that Kaeya is half-khaenri'ahn. Putting this as delicately and respectfully as I can and trying to avoid heavy topics as much as I can here: the pureblood khaenri'ahns we have met so far have all been white. Halfdan, Dainsleif and Clothar all have rather pale skin. Kaeya does not, his skin tone is darker. Genetics wise, he doesn't look like a pureblood Khaenri'ahn, based on all the examples we've seen so far of pureblood Khaenri'ahns. Rather, Kaeya's features of dark skin with dark blue hair resemble Setaria's, a character from Sumeru's desert region. I'm not saying that the two are related. I'm just saying that we've seen at least one prominent NPC who happens to come from Sumeru and who looks more like Kaeya than any of the canonical pureblood Khaenri'ahns do (also, maybe this is just me, but Setaria's role in the archon quest being centered on her split loyalties reminded me a lot of Kaeya's torn loyalties, I feel like there's some shared themes there, maybe some subtle foreshadowing? I don't know, I've seen no one else bring this up, maybe it's just me). This, as well as other hints which appear in later versions, makes me and others strongly think that Kaeya is half-Sumeran half-Khaenri'ahn. Considering that Khaenri'ah is revealed to be essentially underground from Sumeru, it makes sense that, of all regions, it would be someone from Sumeru who'd encounter Kaeya's khaenri'ahn parent (most likely his father) and produce a half-blood khaenri'ahn child in Kaeya.
3. About Dainsleif saying that Kaeya is a descendant of Clothar Alberich, while they are obviously related in some regard as they're from the same family, can we also acknowledge that Dainsleif has no way of knowing if Kaeya is Clothar's direct descendant? Because, based on what we see in this quest, Dainsleif's only information on Kaeya's khaenri'ahn origins is his family name, which is the same as Clothar's. But unless he was keeping track of the Alberich family and its family tree for 500 years and thus knows 100% that Kaeya is indeed Clothar's direct descendant, can we guarantee that he's right and not just making an assumption based on family name? Also, I just want to point out that it seems highly unlikely that Clothar was the only person in the Alberich family who could've had descendants eventually resulting in Kaeya. In fact, based on what he revealed to us about his history in the twin's experience, it seems he was something of the black sheep of the family. For all we know, he could've been the Alberichs' equivalent of that weird uncle no one talks about. There could very well be other members of the Alberich family, maybe siblings or cousins of Clothar's, and their lineage could've been the family line which produced Kaeya. So Kaeya could be a collateral descendant of Clothar's rather than a direct one. I know this probably seems like not a big deal, but I feel like this is still a factor to consider and that I don't see mentioned often despite how obvious it seems to me.
And that's...basically all my thoughts. I know that there's far more to the Caribert quest and potential discussion of it than just Kaeya thoughts, but Kaeya thoughts are 99% of what I think of when it comes to Genshin so I hope you'll forgive me. And I hope that this very long comment (oh gods I'm sorry) doesn't come off as superior or arrogant in any way, these thoughts are just ones that I keep noticing aren't being talked about and I would love to see brought up because I think they might help dissuade some headaches when it comes to Genshin theorizing. Maybe. Possibly. At the very least it could bring a new perspective maybe? Hope these are at least somewhat interesting at least. Great video as always!
considering all the odin references, i am almost convinced the sinner is the one eyed king irmin.
the thing about the medicine ingredients is that they're all impostors. the kalpalata lotus is named such only because it looks like a lotus, and the sumeru rose isn't actually a rose. the mushroom also looks like a suspiciously red rukkhashava mushroom but it grows in a field like a regular crop instead of a mushroom. (as regular as you can get with that kind of messed up fertilizer at least). the only true lotus we know of in sumeru, the one that alleviated eleazar, is the nilotpala lotus specifically.
Im betting on second who came cause we need some cannon connections on that part of The story to the rest, could also serve to connect siblings to primordial one etc
I believe that Kaeya is actually none other than Caribert.
Caribert's mother is from Mondstadt, the buried skeleton at the end suggests that Chlothar somehow managed to overcome the curse, presumably Caribert's as well. We weren't told what happened to Caribert. My guess is that's why in the end Caribert fell into a statis or something like that and centuries later Chlothar was able to break the curse and then took Caribert, now a simple boy now, to Mondstadt and then died himself.
I don't think it is possible. Since what happened in the abyss sibling's memory was from more than 100 years ago. Kaeya would not be around the same age as Diluc when he arrived at Dawn Winery, and also, he would not be able to grow up alongside Diluc. However, I believe that he is probably a descendant of Caribert.
@@tharateptrongpanyachot6046 That's why I said he was in stasis or something and just "recently" released from the curse.
There is also a possibility that Chlothar had children after breaking the curse. I believe that people under the immortality curse cannot have children, otherwise they would have all the time in the world to found a huge new dynasty.
@The Runner Well, if Kaeya were Caribert, he would have known about his father being the founder of the abyss order.... But, he seemed really surprised about that fact.
@@tharateptrongpanyachot6046 Not necessarily, if Caribert went into stasis after the cutscene, he wouldn’t know anything of the Abyss Order until he woke up. Furthermore, he could have been suffering from erosion, and not remembered what happened then.
@Caramel :P Then again, if he was suffering from erosion, he would not grow older since erosion most likely is the form of "ageing" among immortal beings in Genshin world.
Time for a weird and very specific theory of mine:
I think Kaeya is a half-blood Khaenri'ahn and was part of the Royal Family Alberich . In the play , were he plays as the protagonist , the story is about a prince that struggles between his two nations and how to find peace. I fully think it not only tells us about what he roll might be in the story but his origins ; He is of royal blood ( a prince ) and probably his mother ( of father but i think is mother ) was from mondstadt .
First question : Why is he alive today and grew up normally with diluc and his adoptive father ?
I think because he was a half-blood that he was curse as a Hilichurl for a while , and either his father or grandfather were able to break the curse and then leaving kaeya to live with diluc's dad. We arleady know that chlothar was able to break the curse so i don't see it as a stretch.
Also i'm convinced that he is related to Pierro , and that he knows. (idk if Pierro is his father or grandfather though)
That would explain his fight with Diluc after the dead of his dad. All we know is that Kaeya told diluc something about his past and that's what if caused them to fight- But why dliuc would have gotten so angry because Kaeya was from Khaenri'ah ? he surely wouldn't care and it actually seems irrelevant. BUT , what if Kaeya actually told Diluc that he is Family with the guy that runs the organization that killed Diluc's dad?
That would defiitely have more weight and sense.
Final Point : I think he is a Khaenri 'ah Prince . Like , it was a headcannon of mine because i thought it was cool but if i had a drink everytime someone in game calls Kaeya something Prince or Royal related i would already be on the floor passed out drunk . So now i'm sure he's a 100% a prince , like COME ON HE HAS THE FACE FOR IT
if he's addressing the traveler... bow down... "creature"... pretends to know fate... he's zero for three. If he's addressing the Sibling he's at best one for three, and probably zero. So I think he's probably not addressing either of them.
You get that going around addressing people as "Oh creature" is a claim to be divine? Jokes on him because the Twins are outlanders and not part of the PO's creation.
I have to start with a question. Does Caribert was Clothars only son? Because if so, then either Clothar had more children after the cataclysm when he somehow got rid of his curse (unless you can have kids while being immortal), or Caribert was turn into human again. Otherwise how could Kayea come into being? If Kaeya is the descendant of the Alberich clan, then one of the two mentioned above must have had children. Or Kaeya is cured Caribert.
Caribert is Clothar's illegitimate son right? Seems like it implies he may have other son (s).
Kaeya’s mother was something other than Khaenri’ah. His father brought him to Monstadt to stay with Diluc’s father. So he was not in Khaenri’ah when the curse was imposed on all the residents. Yes. he is torn between Mondstadt, Khaenri’ah and the abyss. Dian and he met before when Dainslief was in Monstadt meeting The traveler and gave them the 500.00 and three questions. The second time of Dian and Kaeya meeting was in Sumeru.
Definitely interesting dive on our eyepatch guy from monsdadth
Makes sense that khaenri’h is near sumeru, bcuz in a spot of sumeru forest there’s a button that says enter when you click it it takes you to the chasm
I just got back from watching your video about Irmin, and I can now confidently say his demon name is Samyaza. A "Sinner" that fell in love with a human.
to add to this, this is probably why the god of love became no more, because she learned about why Celestia was punishing Khaeri'ah and by extension about Irmin (ik it's a stretch).
@@bluesteel1389 like, i mean, we DO have a story in a book associated with the first war about a seelie and outlander falling in love.....
Let me say something..Kaeya is not pure blood because of his eyes- Pureblood have distinct light blue eyes, unless Kaeya hides the other eye because of that. (look at Pierro and halfdan, even Albedo has light blue eyes)
Also dain’s memories about this are fecked up: at the beginning of the quest he says that our sibling mentioned Loom of fate to him BEFORE they were at sumeru, and at the end of the quest he says totally didn’t thing..
Also, about sinner, i think he is the one who is fecking up the fate of our sibling (archon quest sumeru, last act when we talk to Nahida), Nahida says someone is obscuring our siblings fate and its someone so powerful that can feck up Irminsul at will-
I think you might be right on the money with the thing about Kaeya not being pure blood. After I read your comment I went to check every khaenri'an character we have (minus Albedo because he doesn't have the star eyes). Not only does Kaeya's eyes have a different shade, but they don't have the exact star shape.
Almost all khaenri'ans' eyes we've seen are some shade of cyan, Dainsleaf having the brightest and more on the blueish side, Halfdan being more on the greenish side, and Chlotar being more muted and greyish; with the only exceptions being Kaeya and Pierrot. Pierrot has very light blue eyes, which look almost white in some scenes, similar to the colour of cryo, but also looking almost sky blue in others; since we don't have an in-game model yet, Idk if it's effects of the light of the scene or what, so I can't be too precise here. (And if you want to include Albedo, yes, his eyes are also cyan)
But Kaeya's... Kaeya's eyes are way more purpleish, more closer to periwinkle. Also, he doesn't quite has the 4 pointed star in his eyes, if you look closely, it's more like a diamond shape, it's not curvy and pointed like all other instances we've seen (Including Albedo's birthmark and the traveler's stars). Edit: (so I wrote this before finishing the video, don't mind the part of the rant about the shape =P )
Something is off here, I just know it.
@@gabrielabatista6016
Haha dw I am glad a lot of people are on this train with us because come on, there was so much emphasis on “eyes” and “pureblood” since the beginning of the quest for this not to be true.
It would also be cool if Kaeya was Caribert (although ik it’s highly impossible), would explain a lot of stuff, but like i said it’s impossible.
Also it kinda surprises me that people still don’t know what “loom of fate” is despite this quest legit telling us: Its changing ones fate despite all the odds against them. That also tells us about our siblings motives, now, Dain is a sussy mofo, idk where tf he fits in all of that and on who’s side is he on? Because, he asks us on the end of Chasm quest “on who’s side we are on” but we don’t know about thim 🤣
@@dreamday988 I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought Kaeya might be Caribert or at least related to him.
Also, yeah, the Loom of Fate is certainly either some artifact, power, spell or ability that allows one to "reweave" their fate. The specifics of what it is, how it works and the requirements for it to work are a bit unclear, but its powers and effects are pratically spelled out.
Also, Dain is DEFINETELY suspicious. Makes me wonder what exactly his motives are. It's very clear that the abyss twin wants to find a way to use the loom of fate to do what they saw happen before: the reweaving of fate, the undoing of the curse; they want to obtain this power and use it to restore Khaenri'ah, as they KNOW it's possible, they just don't know exactly HOW. But, what Dainsleaf's motives are? He's very clearly not in favour of this idea, he dislikes the Abyss Order and he doesn't want Khaenri'ah restored; but he dislikes the Seven and Celestia all the same, and rather obviously resents them for the fate that befell Khaenri'ah, though also seemingly resenting those who were in power in Khaenri'ah?
So many questions and so little answers...
The travelers were summoned prior to the fall of Khaenri’ah. The reason being, Scaramouche tells the traveler, the Jester told him the traveler stayed with him while he was a royal Madge. Scaramouche also says he doesn’t know when they arrived or left. This would have been prior to the Jester becoming the head of the Fatui and prior to the fall of Khaenri’ah. The only thing is when exactly in the timeline did the travelors arrive? 30 days, 100 years, 600 years before the 500 year marker that is signified by the fall of Khaenri’ah? The travelors are much much older, than they look and don’t forget the Jester is an overwhelmingly powerful Madge. I also believe the travelers were “heavenly summoned” by either the Jester, Zhongli or Gold. All three would have the ability, knowledge and age to summon the travelers to Teyvat.
These quests are the only fun part of this game at this point 😭 Can’t wait for the next chapter
Im wondering if Clothar initially wanted to cure the curse with the Abyss Order but later he or others wanted revenge. Maybe he was able to break the curse for his bloodline, or just himself, and Kaeya is either a descendant of his after he broke the curse on himself and his future bloodline post curse, or he was able to break the curse on lots of people and Kaeya is descended from the result. Either way I think Kaeya is a last descendant of another faction of the abyss order or leftover Khaenrians who have a different purpose than the current abyss order whether or not he’s directly descended from Clothar or a different Alberich.
It’s very possible that Kaeya’s dad is full blooded and had a child with someone who who is not from Khaenri’ah rather recently. I doubt hilichurls are birthed, so being a half blooded Khaenriahn born after the cataclysm would leave you unaffected by the curse. After all, he wasn’t there to be cursed
And so we were summoned just like Hilichurls lured by the "sinner" Void voice.
We can't actuly know if he is a diract decandat pf clothar dain saied that baised on the last name and he is unrelyable narrator cuz if his memory
Our abyssal sibling is the abyss as stated in the quest . I think the sinner is FATE itself
I just stumbled on this video because I was looking more into Kaeya, and the relationship between the Fatui, Khaenriah and the Abyss, and gods, I am LATE in all of this super deep lore. Some of this did not make any sense to me.
Anyways!
What if Kaeyas father had him with someone who isn't a pure-blood Khaenrian?
Like, Father Alberich met someone from Mondstadt for example, and they had Kaeya. That would explain why Kaeya isn't pure-blood. The eye he keeps visible is his mothers eye, while he covers the Khaenriahn eye of his father with his eyepatch.
Tinfoil: Or maybe that's why he says he inherited the eyepatch from his Grandpa? Because he inherited the Khaenriahn genes from him? The gene could have skipped over Kaeya's father, but shown itself again in Kaeya (like I, for example, have a red beard, even though my parents are both brunette, because my grandpa had red hair. It skipped over my father) - and thats why he was sent away, because he was obviously from Khaenriah
I was wondering if the curse is really meant to affect descendants as well. Clothar's son is cursed, but he was alive 500 years ago (as that's his last memory).
About dormant genes: red hair is a mutation - which makes it a submissive gene. You need several gene pairs for it to have a chance to manifest (if at all). But the prism-eye is an attribute of pure bloods. So that cannot be a mutation (and therefore dormant). But then, eye colour is polygenic trait, so... Maybe..
I however find it curious that his right eye has a patch. Same as for Odin / Irmin (or well... He had no right eye).
He also has lots of stars on his clothes. Especially 4 pointed ones, like the sinner...and the there is the one that has the shape of Deshret - the one abyss heralds and such have and so does OG Khaenri'ahns like Dain.... What's the connection with that....
I think Kaeya isn't a pure-blood and the reason he doesn't have the curse is that he was born long after the cataclysm. I.e., the Alberich bloodline married people from other nations. Caribert was cursed because he was born before the cataclysm. Meaning, he was there when the people of Khaenri'ah was being curse. Say, for example, Clothar marries again 100 years after the cataclysm with people from other nations, his child won't be cursed. I think that's how the curse works: it was cast during the cataclysm only, so the one being affected were those who lived by then
i also thought he is irmin but also marana theory too... i don't know about the second who coming, because it feels too overwhelming if it was them
I would like to point out the memories wont be from 500 years ago its from some time after as the fall and destrunction of kaneriah happend exactly 500 years prior. From the siblings memory its obvious the destrution has occured but the abyss order isnt made we dont actually have any idea of exact dates yet or time length of how long the abyss order has been around
an interesting theory, kaeya is related to caribert and they have mixed blood, it is important to note that caribert was freed from the curse, that means that kaeya is the last conscious descendant (not cursed) and never catch a curse, he is the cure for khaenri 'ah, his blood is excellent that means he's pure half-breed. he can save all sinners, but that means sacrifice... I think I'd better stop... im going to cry...
maybe it's too simple but.... Kaeya and caribert could be the very same person.
Kaeya said he knew Sumeru but implied he only came once and was dragged home before he could explore. Who would have an innate knowledge of the place but someone who woke up there ?
The timing is confusing but : We know Chlotar waited a long time until he managed to wake up Caribert, then he had a hundred years until he disappeared.
500 years ago the cataclysm occurred, and yet Sumeru didn't seem that scarred from Khaenri'ah's machinery trekking through. Also : we don't know how long the abyss sibling took to start his journey after the cataclysm, and how long he'd been traveling for at the time.
The scene could have happened roughly 150 years ago and Chlotar could have been the father that gave up baby Kaeya (Caribert's new identity without his memories) in Mondstadt to honor his wife. He could have tasked the abyss sibling to continue ruling the abyss before going to lie down with his wife now that he escaped the curse.
The people of Mondstadt still remember about the missing statue of Barbatos, they linked it to the ruin guard going crazy 150 years ago too. So it's possible the statue of barbatos disappeared at that time.
Also : Kaeya's covered eye is the same that's red in the statuettes. Could have a link to it.
Anyway. I'm keeping that theory as fannon until proven wrong until the next quests.
I think I many people know what the loom of fate is.😊
I think the Sinner is the Second Descender/The Second Who Came.
The Goddess of Flowers mentions the war with the Primordial One, involved breakthroughs and illusions, which seems to be a theme with the Abyss.
The Abyss is always said to be “not of this world”, specifically in reference to forbidden knowledge.
She also says to “seek not the Master of the four shades, nor inquire about the sky or abyss.” Putting both Celestia and the Abyss together.
Finally, one of Ei’s friends mentions a “will” before her fall against the Abyss.
My counterpoint to it being King Irmin is this: Clothar would have recognized the voice of Irmin, considering he was his king.
Celestia seems so opposed to the Abyss that I doubt it was a shade.
the thing clothar didnt even hear the voice. the voice talked to the MC.
My guess is he's a descendant of Chlothar. Or the children born after the cataclysm aren't subject to either curse. I suspect it was on purpose as a way to further their punishment. As well as a safeguard.
I'm guessing they don't care if the kids are born human without immortality. Since they'd have to watch their kids age and die. Plus if you give every descendant immortality you effectively create an army to rival Celestia.
I think Kaeya IS Caribert. He was cured of hilichurl disease by Chlothar and as a result he's kind of an in-between of a hilichurl and a Khaenrian. That would explain his skin tone too, he's a mix of light skinned Khaenrian and black skinned hilichurl. Furthermore, if you look behind his eye patch he has a weird eye, that I wouldn't be shocked to find out was what the eyes of a hilichurl look like under the mask.
My biggest question is, why we are not joining our sibling taking down the heavenly principles? They were right, ones we travel enough we will understand
Me thinking Pierro is Kaeya’s great grandfather.
I really wonder what is under of that eyepatch... maybe there is a trick to surpress the curse...
It seems Like there isnt 2 Curses, Its 1, its not a curse that people became Hilichurls But Hilichurls also dont seem to age, so they are cursed with at least Age immortality, But the fact they became Hilichurl isnt a Curse. it happend once any Khaenrians born now that arent pure blooded also dont turn Hilichurl wich obviously shows its not a curse.
since I've made this video, I've gotten more mad about the 2 v 1 curse thing because going back to the Chasm quest dialogue with Dain, he definitely talks about it like there's just 1 curse. I mean, tbf Dain has memory issues, but it's not like Clothar is super reliable either.... and ofc things like what you mention!
Caribert? More like Kaeya’llbethere
DEAD WIFE FERTILIZER IM TUMBLING ☠️
Oh okay, a new set of theories as to who is The Sinner. One theory crafter here in RUclips said it may be one of the Shades. Another gave three guessed as well:
- Lucifer (who could be a fallen god, also the prime sinner)
- one of the Shades, and
- King Irmin (being the last king of Khaenri'ah)
Your list includes Naberius and The Second Throne.
I'm confused, isn't The Second Throne the one that defested the Primordial One. If so, why would he need to hide in the Abyss?
In my understanding, although Phanes was the one who placed the Frost Nails, per the scribe of Istsroth in Enkanomiya, a seal was placed by the Primordial One so that those who knew the resl history will not divulge it. BUT,, was it really the Primordial One who did it? I think The Second Who Came/Second Throne won and took over the dominion of Teyvat, then placed the seal.
I even think that the real reason Tsaritsa and the Fatui js collecting Gnosis is not to use it to reach or defeat Celestia, but to aummon Phanes. I think Phanes was defeated and his body severed into seven parts, becoming the gnosis we know now. This severing of the body of a god has happened in many occasions in mythology (Zeus, Osiris).
GoF basically says the 2nd throne lost. Also the Chasm story line says in the Chasm two forces from beyond this world fight each other - ie the Abyss and Celestia (Nail vs mud). Well sure Celestia is from beyond, but what other thing is from beyond that can be the Abyss? The 2nd throne. But this theory has been around since Enkanomiya because of the symmetry of Enkanomiya's triangle stuff. 3 realms, 3 divine forces fighting each other: Light, Human and Abyss realms. Dragons, PO/Celestia and 2nd throne.
I had always thought the Second Throne won because the language in BSaM seems to suggest that - it outwardly says that 'Phanes probably won' but they were definitely sealed away, like you said, so how would they even know? But in the Amethyst Crown artifact the Goddess of Flowers basically says that the Primo One won. I personally think that the GoF would be the most reliable here.
However, I think there's enough ambiguity that I'd believe it if the Second Throne made a slick switcheroo of sorts, or if there's just something else more complicated going on.
@@roozeveltfox for me, the side of GoF is kinda biased or one sided. It is her "opinion" of what happened since her race got destroyed/cursed as well. It may not be what happened.
@@roozeveltfox I agree about the tone of BSaM but your conclusion assumed there were only 2 possibilities: PO wins and PO loses. 3rd option is they both lost. We know PO side wasn't wiped out entirely because (says Enka lore) evidence of a PO related seal was found. But based on the way the Enka lore deduces the PO must have won it seems clear they're wrong. So the PO didn't win, but neither did 2nd throne. Both lost and as Dainsleif says in Travail, "the war has already begun. It is a continuation of past battles." These two sides have been fighting ever since because neither side can achieve complete victory yet. At first it looks like PO ends up with Celestia and so it seems they "won" but their casualties were so severe (including losing the entire Seelie race, losing the confidence of the human race, possibly disabling or otherwise out of commission PO itself and maybe a corrupted or dying Shade) that you can't really call it a win. All the weird stuff Celestia has been doing is an attempt to counter Abyss (eg Nails and gnoses).
Wasn’t there also a boss named Klingsor as in the same antagonistic force from Wagner’s works?
What if the Sinner is The Dragon King?
what if naberius was the second throne
Kaeya is a hillichurl!!!
prince/princess of the abyss, not khaerniah
Really cool video.
And by no means to downplay it, I’m already a slut for the sinner or king irmin if your theory turns out to be correct
Also Kaeya's passive talent used to be "Heart of the Abyss" before it was changed to Glacial Heart. Like what's that supposed to mean???
Kaeya HAS to be Caribert
you know what i would love?
just someone doing an analysis without speculation
and everytime they introduce a chekov's gun you put a toy gun in a pile until the end of the game
go ahead. rewatch old archon quests and you'll also start doubting whether they're being strategically ambiguous and smartly withholding information or they're desperately pulling shit out of their ass from a general story they decided would be over in 5 years but now have to stretch into double that time.
This quest feels not complete, will there be some more archon quest at second half of 3.5 or start of 3.6?
Wait but Eide says he saw Paimon leave with Dain…. Which means Paimon was with the abyss sibling and Dain
when he says "traveling companion" I think Eide is actually referring to Dain, but Traveler *thinks* he means Paimon
what the crytsal is king deshret
On the topic of Kaeya = Caribert. Heres the thing, i think there are two options. We know Caribert got the power to reweave his destiny through the loom of fate so that means it could very well be that he regained his human form and ended up turning against his father and somewhere along the line he became Kaeya's father.
Or
He reweaved his fate and turned himself into Kaeya, hence why he's no longer cursed but he's still connected to his former father.