575 Watt Turbine After Heavy Rain.
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- I was trying out my new Rode wireless microphone, the sound is clipping and not great because I need to change the db padding.
Current bottlenecks:
-Still only a 12V DC system, the Midnite Classic doesn't like to PWM down to 12V from high input voltages.
-Input wires are now a limitation, amps are higher and the extension cord I'm using is only 16 gauge. I'm pusing 7 Amps through it which over the distance probably results in a noticable difference. I have 4 gauge aluminum wire to bury.
-Lots of windage from water in the housing, a Turgo will remedy most of this.
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Joe ....also if your house is ever on fire.... you are your own fire department now.
Total cost.
Hi, I think you did an excellent job. I would, however, suggest you to check the connection cables between the alternator and the rectifier, according to they are too small in section and you have a huge voltage drop due to the length of the cables. The power results you get are excellent, but you could improve considerably by increasing the cable section
I totally agree. Wire sizes and connections may give you a better connection. Great job.
I recommend adding a little more variation to the thumbnails because i keep thinking "I've already seen this videos" till it's 3 day later and noticed it's actually new.
I am sure you thought of this. If the housing is round you would reduce splashing. Other housings I have seen that are square have the sides canted outward at the bottom pretty extremely, like 45 degrees.
Agreed, he could try a circular one Inside a square one in case he was worried about it breaking
Yep, a round housing with a slot around the middle for the drain so the water is slung out of the chamber as soon as its slung away from the turbine. Like a turbo housing. Then it can be captured in an outer box to direct it down into the drain.
@@ShaneCarles you bet! if you use venturi shaded nozzles on the turbine supply it may show an increase of velocity on the turbine also, allowing for a good drainage, like you say to take away the water so it doesn't cause a resistance to the turbine.
I see this in every vid
Make a circular housing to reduce windage/splashback and increase efficiency.
Wow that's so big current for the 3 phase cables. 500w on 50v, 10amps. Probably use at least 40mm sq cables, especially if it's more than 5m away from the inverter
The cables are litterally in water lmao
16mm sq should be more than sufficient.
@@anubhavmuku96 What the hell are you talking about, 16mm2 for 10 amps? You wouldn't need more than 1,5mm2 for that. 2,5mm2 for longer runs to avoid losses... You could do 100A on 16mm2.
I live in an apartment why am I watching this omg 😭
how unfotunate...
how unfotunate...
Iv watch quite a few videos for over a year now but haven't seen much of the new property that you recently moved into. I watch more about hydro from Kris's channel but I do have to say I love the setup very much! Its clean and easy accessible-ish and I like the way the turbine sits in the tank you build. Great plumbing fittings that you have there! So easy to change/swap out parts etc or for when you need to take it apart, I'm from the UK so haven't really seen anything like that before.
Have you ever considered rather than using a box, using a cylinder shape for the enclosure? You will get less turbulence and a smoother surface for water splashing along the walls to travel. Really digging this project.
you did an excellent job, keep up the good work!
To reduce the splashback on the runner switch to a Turgo runner. Water enters in the top side of the runner and exits out the bottom without splashback. Nice looking system!
I have never wanted to have water more!
Freshwater lobster! I know in PA we call them crayfish 😆
Would a circular housing help against the splashing? Just an idea.
How about no housing - no splash?
@Top Hits It might be messy; but it doesn't have to be. What I was really thinking about is whether the absence of any surrounding would lead to more generator output since there would be no 'splash back' losses.
Great sign of a healthy water ecosystem with that crawdad... How cool would it be to build a pond at the bottom to start a trout pond...
Build an off grid aquaponics setup :D
How can i buy this from you?If you wat to.?
Nice Video, I like it as always. Maybe you could like install a Camera/GoPro with a Gorillapad on the side that you stand on, so we can see more of the things you do. Maybe you could also just attach it to your upperbody part
that ply box is hanging on for dear life.
Hi, many thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. I have a suggestion, what if you made the wooden container box, with the plexi, if you made this a circle schape in the box instead of a square shape, to fill out the corners, i think the internal waterflow to the blades would increase then. I have a feeling the waterspeed now gets blocked because of the corners. Also maybe good impact to make the distance and amount of free space in the container box smaller, so just space for the diameter of the blades and the nozzle output only a few mm away. I think it would tip 750W. Kind regards from Belgium.
You could Install 4 differnd jets an open only the best ohnes for yor curret pressure so you dont have to change jets
Great idea, if you are going that way, throw in a digital pressure meter, a bunch of solenoid valves and a arduino that selects the right valves to be open according to the pressure.
@@tristanfloris9970 have you been watching Kris Harbor natural building?
The square box housing is actually your enemy here. Water splashing all over the place likely reduces the potential output. This should be shaped more like car turbocharger housing, properly deflecting the stream and sucking every last Joule of the kinetic energy out of each water droplet.
He hurt himself and sped it up 😂😂😂
WOW! That's amazing pressure from that lite creek!
It’s because the spring he collects from is almost 85m uphill. The power of that water when it reaches the bottom is (neglecting losses to friction within the pipe) the flow rate in liters per second times the gravitational acceleration near the surface of the earth (9.81 m/s^2) times the height difference between the spring and the turbine (roughly 85m). So he gets about 834 watts, or joules per second, for every liter per second he can shunt down his piping system. Efficiency is lost making all that whirring noise and splashing water off the housing back into the pelton wheel, though, along with some energy consumed by shear friction inside the piping, so only half-ish of that actually becomes electricity.
Nice job Joe. I can't believe how much quieter this setup is! I'm jealous. I live on the prairies so the only way I can get that sort of head is to tap into a water tower😆
You have wind though.
@@JoeMalovich True. Just not as much fun to play with!
@@numbnutz9398 depending on where you are you might actually be able to have your own small water tower
@@wildfirephoenix2262 it would take more power to pump the water that high, than you would get from harnessing the fall.
Would an angled housing push the water down rather than back at the turbine, like a pyramid?
A 45 degree corner block in each of the four corners would channel the windage in a circular path with the desired direction of flow and likely improve the efficiency while reducing the interference loss.
I think you may be introducing air bubbles into your penstock/ pipeline inadvertently. I may have a solution for you.
When the nozzle valves are closed with air in the clear lines and then you open the penstock valve, I believe the air goes up into your penstock before you open the nozzle valves.
I think if you open your boiler valve/hose nozzle first, then slowly start opening the pen stock valve, the air, then some water should come out your boiler valve. Once the air is gone, close the boiler valve The clear tubing should be full of water without much air, and then open the nozzle valves, and I think you'll have less problems with cavitation.
Nice project by the way. What are you powering with it? I would hope with that much power 24 /7 you'd be able to power the majority of your home.
Cure water hammer with a bypass Y joint in to a relief pipe and its own valve.
When you want to turn off the turbine, you can easily open the relief valve and then turn off the turbine and avoid any water hammer.
Well done! Just wondering if a circular guide around the outside of the pelton wheel exhaust may be more efficient? You have gone a long way since the water wheel.
Always look forward to your RUclips videos. I agree also that maybe four jets is worth a try as suggested by Kevin Heimann???
That pressure is useful too, you can fill up your car tires with a water air compressor.
I would line your housing with rockwool insulation.. :) that should help with the noise.
I feel like adding a transformer to boost the voltage would help given you're running such thin cable!
It's only 10A through 14 gauge wire 3-phase.
@@JoeMalovich you will still likely gain some decent benefits through reducing thermal losses by reducing current
@@JoeMalovich Number 10 wire would help as at one point you saw over 20 Amps on the input. Would cut the resistance way down.
I don't know the distance from your station to home... but with the assumption of 50-100+ foot run.... 14 gauge is too small.
Nothing less than 12ga would be acceptable, 10ga being the best option at your power levels.
If that is a 1kw turbine, changing your transmission lines will likely yield another 100-300 watts... count on another 50-100 with improved housing geometry
So nice and informative vidio thanks sir.
Once you get t the R&D complete think about a cast round metal housing for the generator. A company called Ash builds industrial pumps they are lined with a replaceable rubber liner, so the water can't after time erode holes through the metal. Just a thought
I think I found my next favorite youtube channel
Have a look to wikipedia about peleton turbine, they should run at 50% periferial speed of the water jet speed soo that the water leave with almost no velocity. I confess that this is easier said than done.
Your windage issues (I caught some of your other videos with cones and rounded corners ) may have a simple solution. Bowl shapes. A bit harder to align the jets but it should transfer the splash out and away from your blades. Heck, you may even be able to test with some off the shelf clear plastic salad bowls.
How far away from your home . The electricity wire need to be extended away ?
Dude.... considering how old the other video is, of you testing the new big wheel...
We all told you a while ago, your housing, that was supposed to be temporary... is a huge cause of inefficiency. You need to either make a round housing for your Pelton wheel, or make some sort of deflector/diverter/stator assembly to make the square peg fit the round hole a LITTLE better.
I wanna see your stainless steel housing, 3-4 nozzle rig.... Bring on the big rig.
this
If the housing for the turbine was circular, with an inverse screw it would push the blow-by downward and out of the pit, wouldn't it?
So within the square would be a wide pipe with a screw inside of it to move the used water away from the turbine.
Thanks joe
Larger round housing? To stop all splashback?
Where does this water come from. Ive been trying to find it in ur videos but i cant. Is it from a creek or a lake or something?
A spring that's up a hill, that's why he's getting such good pressures and consistent flow.
That's satisfying Joe 500> is alot it can safe you some amount on electric bill,what plans do you have?try sealed lead acid 24v system maybe?... My items have not arrived I guess corona is the issue otherwise am dreaming of having such a great system👍
I've been looking for a grid tie inverter with limiter.
@@JoeMalovich Yes, it is pity you don't have more volts and less amps and then Solis 4th Gen inverter would work lovely - grid tie is built in. Though as we install grid connected solar and not hydro, I don't really know what I am talking about! Would MPPT work equally well on a hydro curve as a solar curve?
@@JoeMalovich the best GTIL inverters I've come across are made in China by SUN. Have you come up with anything else? I'd love to know if there's more out there.
Great video, what is your total water flow per minute?
Would it be possible to fit two turbines in there. One high flow and one low flow, so you can quickly switch between them depending on available water?
Wouldn't just closing the second jet also be sufficient?
Fantastic
Hello Joe your turbine is very impressive what is the total cost of the installation and what is the efficiency of the system and the turbine and the power ?. Thank you in advance
Hi, first time to see this. Very nice outfit . So where did the turbine come from, what side jets or outlet are you using. I like the pipe fittings too what brand ?.
The generator is from motenergy, spoons and mounting plate from Langston's alternative energy, nozzles are from the garden section of Lowes, fittings are sanitary fittings from Amazon. I built the rest.
Wago connectors are king
You should make it into a vertical setup
put brushes inside the housing to slow down the water that get close to the housing
Isnt it dangerouse for the phase power to be in water ?
Would a round enclosure work better at deflecting the displaced water ? Less blowback ?
So new cables (to reduce losses), more batteries (to up your battery bank voltage), an inverter (to supply a second panel in your house with power), and a new housing and you'll be making real, economical power. By the numbers, you're looking at quite a bit of utility offset maybe like 30%, depending on how much your usage is already.
575 watts times 24 hours equals 13.8 kilowatt hours a day. Multiply that by a 30-day month and you get 414 kilowatt hours per month. I don't know about you, but to me that is real, economical power.
@@johnwyman6331 yes, but you need the other stuff to actually use the power
@@jttech44 is he not actually using the power now?
@@johnwyman6331 He seems to just have dummy loads on cheap inverters at the moment, nothing wired into his house, or that would substantially offset his power usage. He'll likely need more batteries an a proper utility inverter to keep up with peak load.
every time i see your turbine i think it would be cool to have the jets controlled by proportional valves and an arduino. to maintain peak pressure.
build you own turbine and do it. I envy people with a house that has even the possibility to install hydo as its so powerfull yet so small (compared to wind or solar atleast if you have the waterpipes / drainage anyway)
Can you get a better splitter? Coming off at 90 degrees has got to be causing turbulence.
I know nothing about these pumps... but couldn't this be hooked up to a 3000 gallon tank and have the water pumped right back in? The pressure of the tank creates the power and the power pumps the water back into the top of the tank?
You cant get somethin' from nothin' -- aka it costs more power to pump the water than you would gain from the turbine.
Cool
Where you buiyed turbine from
Привет. Попробуйте сделать, что бы вода не попадала на лопасти, которая отскакивает от стенок корпуса.
Hi just came here no idea what this is exactly or the how's and why's it works, shouldn't you have a circular box Inside the square one so the water doesn't get stuck in the corners
so cool
tesla turbine, from center out sides centrifugal, or edge in out bottom normal pelton turbine, with circular case
solar water steam or solar heater air cheap simple turbine for electricity
Sorry if you’ve already explained someware I looked through your videos but where does the water come from and go ?
Dont apologise for using WAGO connectors, they are the best thing. If interested look into how they have been tested.
although a pair of AC wago connections in water is bad. I wired most of my house with them and I love them.
Joe, how you 've achieved so much pressure from stream?
The stream is.275ft higher then he is. Watch all his vids.
@@paninisinabox I haven't seen all of them. Thanks.
But is gravity capable of providing so much pressure?
@@takismenexes6131 1 bar per 10 meter. I assume his inlet is about 70-80m above his generator level.
@@billigerfusel How easy whit metric.
@@skrukke i know, right
I think a better case is required to increase efficiency, there is a lot of water bouncing inside the case. A 30° back walls that diverge the water down will help. Do you plane to update your battery maybe with lithium batteries? Possible LTO for very long life bateries?
Turgo is the answer. Yes big battery bank sometime.
gerard capdevielle brevet on french forum
theorically 5GW with 1meterX5m fall
(perpetual water wheel motion, in video, seems same laws)
Ok so now you make an array till you reach 2kw all the best .
I've been watching your channel for a few days now, started with you water wheel, which I thought you did well, but I'd have changed a few things. That's irrelevant now though. But, regarding your turbine series, I'm dying to know why you haven't added more barrels up at the headwater to increase your reliability and lengthen you available run times?
The key is to match consumption to supply.
Is the splashing what's making the produced current oscillate that much? 6:04 It went from 570 to less than 400w :\
So where do you store all that watt time? When your battery bank is full do you just pull a gear?
Maybe one of those cheap, inefficient, quazi-legal chinesium 12v grid tie inverters will allow you to put that power to some practical use. What's your DC voltage just past the rectifier? There are higher input voltage inverters, of course.
Rectified DC voltage is up to like 130+ so the cheap ones don't work, plus they need a bunch of amps for the shunt to read correctly. There is no ideal cheap solution.
these wrk better if you make a spiral that leads into a overflow tank taht leaks tha water right bavk into the spiral.. using gravity to constantly flow the generator
I don´t know if this is something that would work, I have little to no knowledge about this but, I recently came across an interesting devise called the Tesla turbine and I´ve been reading up on it and watching some interesting videos where they are testing it out. Now, the Tesla turbine was developed for steam but I´ve seen some videos where they are using water to run it, so I was wondering if you had ever thought of testing that out instead of the Pelton wheel? IF you ever do, I would love to see that video!
saya mau tanya? tegangan dari dinamo, apakah langsung bisa dinikmati atau harus masuk dulu ke unit control dan di perbesar mengunakan inverter?
How much power do you think is theoretically possible with your setup? With known flow rate and pressure, you could probably calculate the turbine and generator combined efficiency. Seems like a future video topic to see where you are on your excel sheet
Look at the penstock video I made.
575w/hour ?
what kind of pipe connectors are those!?
Total cost,
My guy that’s a whole fire hose
well done 😊 very impressed! excellent power out! you need a second pit when this one is perfected... more power etc and you can probably go off grid!! 😊
what was that creature at the end? a scorpion??? 😳
LOL That is a crayfish. They don't have scorpions in where he lives.
Crayfish also known as Mudbugs. Found in fresh water North to South east of the Mississippi River in the U.S. I'm not sure about west of the Mississippi.
I hear they're great eating, but I hesitate to try it myself, since I don't like the taste of Lobster.
HubrisNaut lol thats true... its too cold! lol DOH! should have realised it was a different creature... like the other commenter said, crayfish! i cannot believe i said scorpion! 😂😂😂
@@lonewolfgeoff Same family?. Crayfish are none-venomous 'scorpions' of the Pennsylvanian wetlands?..
@@johnwyman6331 Our species in the NNE tastes mild, more like freshwater white fleshed fish., less 'fishy', or 'pungent' than our saltwater shrimp..
TY.
/
why is the turbine housing square instead of circular?
love your work btw.
ease of manufacture and mounting prolly, it's harder to mount a pipe onto a small diameter circle than you would think.
I was going to comment about that. Waldo is right. Easy to make. This is a work in progress.
Thanks guys I didn't think about mounting the inlet pipes
But still it would at least increase the efficiency and decrease noise
Maybe in the final build 🤷♂️
How can have this kind of hydro turbine,
how much head do you have?
What is your water source??
Can you pleaaaaase weld a metal round housing for the turbines?
Mate how did you make that pressure?
Upgrade to MPPT for dealing with higher voltage step down....
The Midnight Solar Classic model he is using is a very high quality, and expensive, MPPT controller. There aren't many other MPPT controllers that can be used with hydro, or wind. The few I've seen are very low quality.
Water turbine / fire hose. Good thinking there. (8
How many kWh are you averaging out of interest?
Where does the water come from? City water?
It's gravity fed spring water.
Joe how can I order one?
I'm not in America
Very cool. What would be the solution to the windage issue? I understand it probably doesn't make sense to implement whatever it may be, since high water flow is temporary.
turgo
The majority of Pelton wheels like this, are set on a horizontal axle to combat windage problems. Joe is eventually going to use a Turgo runner which is a vertical axis device. The box he built will accommodate the Turgo since water flow will be from top down, eliminating windage losses.
Well that was a duh moment on my part!
Hey I'm wondering what this is for? Do you have flow that you are routing to turbine to generate energy?
He is turning flowing water into electricity. Over 400 kilowatt hours per month.
1. Why are there no slow fuses at the turbine outlet ?
2. Why does the rectifier stand somewhere far away ?
2.1 What is the frequency of the turbine output current ?
2.2 what is the parasitic inductance of such long wires ?
2.3 what is the final impedance of such a long wire at this frequency ?
3. What is the parasitic capacity of the wires ? Is it really worth wasting the energy of such a small source on permanent capacitive leaks ?
Otherwise, the project is super ! The excess energy, when the batteries are charged, can be used to heat water, which then goes to the regular water heater, and as a result it will spend less energy.
Not my setup... but... answers.
2. The point of running the way he has it: DC power suffers massive losses over distance, AC isn't as bad. SO, let the turgo make 200VAC and send it long range to the rectifier, where it is converted to DC and sent by short run to the batteries.
1. No fuses = he's cheap? Silly?
2.1 variable, depending on speed.
2.2 not enough to worry about at these power levels
2.3 see 2.2
3. If you're asking a question of such a "technical" background, you should already have the answer. Again, see 2.2
@@bmw328igearhead 3. If you're asking a question of such a "technical" background,
That's why I ask questions that should lead to the right idea.
I'm trying to bring a competent approach to the construction of things.
direct current suffers losses on a long wire solely from the constant resistance of the wires.
I didn't talk about converting high voltage to low voltage for lead batteries.
I'm saying that the variable should be straightened, but not lowered, these are two different concepts.
rectified voltage from 200 VAC * sqrt (2) = 282.84271 VDC , there is not even a smell of 24 VDC.
But the alternating current loses power from: active resistance + parasitic induction + parasitic capacitance.
The funny thing is that active resistance is permanent, while parasitic
capacitance and inductance increase losses with increasing frequency (see "circuit design").
it turns out when the turbine is gaining momentum, and a competent scheme will remove more power from it,
long wires will act as a choke, as in fluorescent lamps that limit alternating current.
it turns out that the turbine is fighting parasitic losses for nothing.
as close as possible to the turbine, you need to rectify the current, and put DC-DC as close as possible to the battery.
don't confuse these things. You even have a diode bridge that is separate from the controller which is already hinting
two stages of current conversion.
fuses are not stupid, they do not protect the TURBINE, but the ENVIRONMENT, so as not to start a fire.
it is clear that there is nothing much to burn near the turbine, at the moment, and tomorrow they will accidentally put it there
a bunch of twigs, some kids who want to play. or do you have an armed guard on turbines, wiring, and batteries 24 hours a day ?
question 2.1 is not empty. there is a specific frequency range in which the turbine gives maximum power,
let's say we are not interested in the frequency of 1 Hz, because this is not a combat mode, and we are not interested
the frequency 10 GHz, because it's not real. so there is a very specific frequency range,
from which you need to make other calculations of inductive losses.
2.2 not enough to worry about at these power levels
it is at such capacities that there is something to worry about because the source is actually weak,
and if you thoughtlessly lose energy at every step, the overall efficiency of the system will be low, and it will not
only in how many specific Watts will be lost, but in relation to the personal life time spent
for all these losses due to lack of calculations.
@@bmw328igearhead by the way, use sealed connections, otherwise sooner or later someone will be electrocuted, it would still be good to put a "protective disconnection device" to protect people.
@@hackerproff he's making around 400 kilowatt hours a month. He actually went out and did it, more than most.
Tell us about your setup, and how you squeezed every electron out of it. Don't forget to show us the cost benefit analysis in dollars per electron saved.
@@johnwyman6331 When I build my house and start making similar toys, naturally I will do a test in practice in different ways. And with great pleasure I will post everything on RUclips. It's just that my time has not come yet. And I want to tell a person the optimization path, and your comment simply pours negative and does not bring anything useful. If there is such a decent power, then the protection of the environment with fuses and differential breakers is definitely needed, it is generally always needed when the voltage is more than 30 VDC. If the installation is amateurish, this does not give her the right to be dangerous, and does not cancel the safety standards.
id like to know what this whole thing is for? someone explain to me please. thanks
Hydroelectric Power.
Were can I get this turbine
Links in the description
Hello joe once again need help what would be the psi if water flows in 4" pipe at hight of head is 40 feet and the lenght of pipe is around 100meters help !
h-hydro.com look for an xls doc called pipe-dp and do any number of calculations yourself.
@@JoeMalovich thank you joe
Noor Zia ... water "head pressure" is figured at 2.3 feet per 1 psi so you have just over 17 psi pressure. (static / not flowing) the GPM will depend on the type and size of the pipe, and what the nozzle will flow at a give pressure.
@@rupe53 thank you i might be using a water wheel instead of nozels bcz 17 psi isnt a good preasure and the water gpm would be the great in 4" pipe from that height
@@GbFancyBirds ... you might want to consider several pipes or a larger pipe to get more volume. Remember, with a slow turning wheel it's the weight of the water (the volume) plus the diameter of the wheel can greatly aid in mechanical advantage. Using that chart and finding out how many horse power you can develop will cross directly to how many watts you can produce.
Where do you get your water pressure?
He gets it from a spring 275 feet higher than the turbine.
Can he explain why he isn’t using the spear he has?
good question. I should mount it up!