The new Mac Pro feels very much like a Stop Gap… they wanted to get off Intel and say they completed the transition while at the same time buy themselves time to work on a much more significant processor in future (presumably in the M3 family). Might be a bit optimistic of me, but that’s what it feels like.
Yeah you're way too optomistic. When M3 comes around it will be exactly the same... still no reason to have a Mac Pro when the M3 goes in the Mac Studio just as easily.
@@serqetry fair point. I mean the 3 manometer process more specifically rather than the M3 itself. I expect if Apple do decide to do anything more grand with the Mac Pro they’d want to do it on the new process.. they were never gonna do it with the M2 family bud they equally didn’t want to have to support the Intel Mac Pro anymore.. so this was their way out for the meantime.
It is hard for me to understand what would be the business model for a different processor on a MacPro. The Mac Pro market is tiny due to its price, the cost of developing such CPU is very high. How could Apple justify it?
@@tokelahti this video from Max Tech had a much better idea on how it could be done. Obviously it’s all based on speculation and may never come to fruition (especially as it’s from a few months ago), but it’s still a very cool idea for Mac Pro expansion m.ruclips.net/video/hasmUjM5gVM/видео.html
UAD-2 OCTO Core PCIe DSP Accelerator, HDX PCIe Core Card, BM 12k DeckLink, 390-channel 24-bit 192 kHz triple MADI PCIe card, 100GbE Dual-Port. That kind of Kiting it out? I'd love to see that. If you have another $10k for actual professional expansion cards.
During the announcement you can actually see the back side of the new Mac Pro motherboard. The moved the 2 storage slots to the top under the covers that used to house the ram. In the center of the board you can see a big chip which I think is a PCIe switch, since I assume the M2 Ultra doesn't have enough PCIe lanes to actually feed all the slots.
Funny how a new Mac Pro (and new Mac Studio) became “Oh, by the way…” because of the “One more thing.” The minuscule M2-Ultra Mac Studio is the huge Mac Pro without PCI slots. That’s amazing!
You know what else is amazing? A Windows PC with NVidia RTX 4080 or 4090 card is *MUCH* *FASTER* than Mac Studio, and for about half the price. And of course the Windows software ecosystem is far beyond Mac.
I agree that this seems like a “forced hand” release. For all the lack of upgradeability this Mac body should’ve definitely have been redesigned. Hey I’m a Pro Tools HD guy and internal PCI-e expansion is great but not for $3K. They must be thinking back on the days of Magma chassis. I do like the fact you can still order a rackmount version, definitely more “pro” than the four legged model. Not wanting to sound negative but I think this was rushed and should have been redesigned for the market users.
If your work requires 7 PCIe capture cards, it’s worth $3,000. It’s not really aimed at anyone else. They specifically say it’s for those who “rely on internal expansion for their workflows.”
I doubt they will let you change the integrated storage but the website implies you can use pcie gen 4 ssd cards to expand storage which is great if you need it. I think the Mac Pro is only for people like Neil Parfitt who needs to cram 7 avid cards into his mac to control all of his audio equipment and the Mac Studio is the new Mac Pro for most people.
It would've been nice to see Unified Memory and regular DDR5 slots on the Mac Pro. Basically the 192GB of Unified memory gets used up, then it offloads it to the DDR5 memory, freeing up the unified memory. Compared to using an SSD, using RAM as 'swap' is much faster, has minimal performance penalty, and it lasts much longer
@@YD_. Could be done but nobody would bother, vast majority of apple users don't even know anything about hardware! Nobody will waste their money to design and produce something that only a handful of them will be sold..
@@ggoddkkiller1342 users buying the Mac Pro do though. That’s the point of the Mac Pro. Also I was talking about making it for yourself, not selling it
I was really hoping this Mac Pro would signal a compatibility towards both native Windows on ARM support AND proper eGPU support on the M1, something sorely missing from the Intel days. Looks like I am waiting just a little bit longer.
There is nothing *native* about 'Windows on ARM'. The whole world, and especially the Fortune 500 companies run Windows on AMD or Intel x86 processors. That is the worldwide standard.
The internal PCI extensions are essential to high end production facilities, like movies, games, biologicals, among others. But It would also make sense for the rest of us if it could be upgraded from M2 to the future M3, exchanging the processing block.
It makes sense in all consumer equipment really and I would argue that it is essential to any general purpose desktop computer. It comes as standard on x86 boards regardless of price point.
@@Chopper153 *plenty* of game studios build on and develop for macOS, non-exclusive of Windows; for example: Blizzard/Activision, Epic, Nintendo, EA, T2, I could go on. The only way to develop for iOS and macOS is on a mac. plus with Apple's new porting mechanism, they'll become much more prominent in studios in the next few years.
Move movie and games have internal render farms and already have their systems set up. They would not just replace everything for these new mac pros. Also a lot of high end studios use Linux as well.
I work in Audio Post Mixing and have the Mac Studio with a Thunderbolt Expansion 3 PCI enclosure for Pro tools cards and SSD's. It is not the best solution TBH. I would take the mac Pro any day of the week. The extra 3K would be worth it for a lot of pro uses that don't want to muck around with Thunderbolt bandwith issues slowing things down. Also x6 slots would be very nice to have.
By the time you bought a multi slot PCI-E Chassis then they only 3 slot and around 1500 so to get the slots would have to buy 2 so looking at 3k with 2 external boxes fed by 2 TB buses. or buy a Mac Pro and have those slots internally and no TB restriction in the PCI-E slots.
6:14 The storage is indeed upgradable! The SSD modules are already listed on Apple's website, but they are ridiculously expensive. 2 TB for $1000, 4 TB for $1600, and 8 TB for $2800.
@@arricammarques1955 internal storage you mean. That’s why the Mac Pro exists. It’s at least $2k too expensive, but you don’t have to hand a bunch of separate boxes and cables running all over your desk, just a computer large enough for doing work. 8TB as 4 2TB NVMe drives can come in well under $800. Add 2 or 4 sata drives for an internal 30+ TB cold storage, plus some networking/capture cards to your needs and it’s perfect except the price.
@@stevenedwardyoung NANDs are in a free fall. Samsung SSD 980 PRO 2 is one of the best SSD out there and cost $120 for 2TB. And yes a mechanical 3,5 slot and a 5,25" for a M-Disc or Tape for backup that is what a professional case would need. Apple is a Pro Joke.
A, those prices are absurd. B, is the storage actually an upgrade, or an addition? C, if it is an upgrade, what happens when Apple stops supporting it, can third parties make the same modules. D, if it an addition, no one should ever buy those, a dozen highly reputable manufacturers have offerings that are highly likely much better and cost half or less.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 Upgrade. “8TB SSD Upgrade Kit for Mac Pro enables you to upgrade the internal SSD storage capacity of your Mac Pro. This kit, containing two 4TB modules, replaces the current SSD module or modules in your system. “
Great stuff Luke. You zoomed into the most interesting hardware. The Mac Pro cheese grater is interesting but just a big beautiful empty box. Will love to watch you fill one. Beyond my reach, happy with my M2 pro Mac mini, as fast as I need. yes a 15 inch M2 MacBook Air just what you wanted (but maybe M3).
Paul, the M2 Mini, though I don't have one or have used one, is pretty sweet. More thunderbolt 4 connection that the M1, which I have. I totally drank the coolaid and went for the Mac Pro, It did cost a fortune though.
Well the Mac Pro will be amazing but be interesting to see if it beats the M2 Ultra Mac Studio. Be interested to hear what PCIe cards you plan to put in the big empty box.
the main reason I am considering getting the m2 Mac Pro is for the full bandwidth PCIe expansion, yes I could buy a Mac Studio and a thunderbolt PCIe enclosure but even thunderbolt 4 does not have enough bandwidth for my needs, my plan was to get one of the m2 Mac Pros and install 2 Blackmagic 8k pro cards, 1 Blackmagic decklink quad 2, a 4xm.2 PCIe card, a Dante audio card and a 4 port usb c card (yes I know it's a lot of inputs and outputs but I do use it all) if I were to put all that in thunderbolt enclosures I would need at least 4 enclosure taking up 4 of my thunderbolt ports on a Mac Studio leaving me with only 2 thunderbolt ports for the rest of my peripherals including the 5 displays I use at work (I work in live events) whereas the Mac Pro has 8 thunderbolts ports which won't have to be used for PCIe expansion, only thunderbolt docks, drives and monitors, it may be expenive but for quite a few people it's worth it.
For someone like you, the added cost is a complete afterthought when compared to the money being made from the work done... that is the true barometer of this product. The people who will actually purchase this understand the value that is given buy the expansion. Apple isn't in the market to re-engineer all of those products that are already done well by others.
Respect! How much do you earn to afford such expensive hardware? Its a rhetorical question; Not expecting an answer. :) We only dream of possessing maybe a single Mac studio, that too after cutting all corners, squeezing dry the piggy bank and then maybe wait another year to buy the accompanying Studio display, err... without the hinge :P
@@jadhavanchi I will say that I certainly don't earn a tonne, won't give exact details but I have to save but the main reason for upgrading is I'm running a Mac Pro 5,1 and I've filled every PCIe slot (only got a decklink quad, a sonnet usb-c card and a sonnet u.2 card) every drive bay and am using 100% of the cpu and gpu when I'm live-streaming, it's gonna take a while to save but it's a much needed upgrade.
I would've been more enthusiastic for just eGPU support, even if its just with the current Radeon gpu's that they currently already have support for. Can only imagine what sort of performance gain that can represent in video/3d work knowing you have Apple Silicon plus say a Radeon 6900 XT attached to it?
You can only imagine. Apple won't work with AMD again. They're a solo company now and they won't rely on anyone else but their manufacturers. Such a shame, because I think these kinds of pro machines should be getting top of the line real and theoretical performance.
Once Asahi Linux runs on this, there's a good chance that they'll be able to patch in graphics card support. Ampere's ARM chips has had GPU support for years now, so the platform is there to build upon.
As a Pro Studio owner it’s Essential for me to have PCI slots for running ProTools. This is what kept me from upgrading as far as the Mac Pro is concerned for years, so I’m happy to see this. Not happy about the price tag, but such is life.
Can't you use Thunderbolt PCIe enclosures with the existing models? The bandwidth would be limited but still way more than enough for audio interfaces.
Would have seriously considered a Mac Pro if it offered dedicated NVIDIA Ada GPUs, mainly for CUDA programming and 3D-Rendering. But that's never gonna happen.
I really wish Apple would bring back eGPU support on MacOs. I personally like the form factor, size and ports on my M1 Ultra Mac Studio. I'd just like a little more GPU power for CGI work.
I think the bigger issue is the modeling program taking advantage of the hardware. Blender performs really well with nvidia GPUs and not with others (but being able to slot in an nvidia GPU could solve that issue, lol)
@@AndersHass Yeah that is very possible. I know that Apple has been contributing and working directly with the Blender development team to make improvements and have come quite a long way. I'm currently using C4D with Redshift and overall, it runs pretty well on my M1 Ultra Mac Studio, but it's definitely not perfect. Which is a bit of a disappointment being that Apple showcased Maxon's C4D & Redshift in the video for the M1 Ultra Mac Studio. While I've been able to create some awesome work with C4D on the Mac Studio, I've had quite a few exchanges with Maxon support over the past year due to glitches and other issues with C4D/Redshift on Apple Silicon. My hope is that 3D will continue to get better on MacOs. I've heard rumors of hardware ray tracing with future Apple Silicon chips, but we'll see. I'm a commercial advertising photographer and digital artist and my primary use for my Mac Studio has been commercial photography & video. It's been amazing with everything I've done outside of 3D/CGI. But even with CGI it's been pretty good.
@@DerekDavis213 Market capitalization of NVIDIA (NVDA) Market cap: $954.75 Billion As of June 2023 NVIDIA has a market cap of $954.75 Billion. This makes NVIDIA the world's 6th most valuable company
Having 6 full bandwidth PCIe 4.0x16 expansion slots could be very useful for those who Thunderbolt 4 simply won't cut it but it is not worth $3000 extra. Nevertheless I'm glad they have figured a way of giving us PCIe expansion. The way x86_x64 handles memory is not efficient, most applications will perform better with the unified memory even though it is limited to only 196GB.
I just dropped my cash on a base m1 ultra studio. Why? Because the m2 Max is almost more expensive (and is back order), but with less performance than m1 ultra studio refurbished. I would have held off if the m3 studio max had been on offer to order. The refurbished m1 ultra is kneecapped but still outperforms the m2 Max at a comparable price point. The m2 MacPro is a bit of a joke. Pcie 4th gen, err fail. So. Current NVMe is faster than the MacPro would be sped limited. And same current third party GPU would be kneecapped. So it’s a storage overkill, but not really. The MacPro is merely filling the empty marketing slot in apples bizarre line up. If Apple had added a secondary m.2 NVMe slot in the m2 studio line up. Users would be much much happier. Apple needs to returning to doing the job right.
I feel like this is something they never wanted to make and behind closed doors the conversation was "so here's a big empty box for all of those PCI-E slots you supposedly need. Enjoy the $3k premium for this stupid thing!"
They also had Intel machines with 4GB of RAM long after the OS really needed at least 8. So, it's not out of character. Of course it was upgradeable but I'm betting a low percentage of people actually ever did that.
Just to add my two cents. Unless Apple has changed this from the Intel model, you're also getting a 1000W power supply. The PCIe slots are also crucial for colorists that need dedicated video singles for reference monitors. Also, if you're a VFX house, getting everything connected with fiber for rendering and reducing latency between your footage/assets on the network. Also, also, I'm sure some producers and sound engineers can chime in on what they need PCIe for as well. This machine is definitely not for the everyday user or content creator.
A lot of what you said is true. I'm a colorist as well. I just posted my comments, but in short I went with the Pro to be able to put in a high end Blackmagic Decklink. I'll save just over 2K doing it, so the extra cost justified it. A lot of good comments and observations on here though. Thanks for yours Yaroslav.
I’m a colorist building out my new studio, and looking to upgrade from my aging iMac Pro w/ 18 cores (dog slow now). I have a EIZO color correct monitor now, but looking to also run a feed to my new color correct projector. I’m planning to buy the Black Magic Design UltraStudio 4K mini which uses thunderbolt to HDMI to somehow bypass the GPU for more accurate color, and produce a cleaner video signal. My initial thought was this would be needed for the Mac Studio, but it would be good to know if that device would somehow *not* be needed with the Mac Pro? I’m not a hardware engineer, so I don’t quite know why the device makes the video signal somehow better out of a Mac due to it’s GPU, nor do I know if that is obviated or not with the Mac Pro design. Can anyone with more knowledge clarify?
I was hoping for at least apple silicon expansion slots. Like a specific one with just apple silicon gpu cores or one specific for machine learning with a GPU+ANE combo or one with just a straight up M2 chip to run a virtual machine or something. That would have been interesting.
Indeed. That - aside for making good point for baseline M2 8/256 without GUI etc and with ecoding accelerators and perhaps FPGA slot for specialized cores....
@@dillardc81 it's possible! they've developed PCIe cards before for specific use-cases (ie the afterburner card). with some board magic, they could theoretically provide a specific connectivity (and PCIe interchangeable) protocol, too. it's probably not too likely given how fast their integrated GPUs are getting, but it could be really useful as AI models grow in size, to the point where OBM can't even handle them.
They basically got lazy and are going to kill it soon in favor of the Mac Studio. There's no longer a reason to buy it. Just get a Mac Studio unless the user needs PCIe expansion, in which case you'll need to go Windows/Linux
One thing that Apple showed was the black box that has the SOC inside of it animated into place. And there are rumors about “processor modules.” I am thinking that, if you can upgrade your Apple Silicon Mac Pro to the M3 chip, that rocks, as it allows you to buy a case with a module for an upgrade. When you get yours look and see if that processor module (the black box with the SOC and unified RAM) can be removed.
I could see some movie studios using the Mac Pro with Avid cards like the Pro Tools HDX system and maybe some recording studios as well, but PCI DSP cards for audio are pretty much a thing of the past and more of a luxury. Live Television and big multi-cam switching like those mega churches who stream services with 10 cameras and AVB or Dante audio might use the Mac Pro as a over grown OBS or Wirecast machine. I do live sound and own a recording studio and honestly anything bigger than the Mac Studio is really a waste of money for me and I would consider myself as using the most up to date setups in my field. We use computers as plugin servers to use audio plugins in real-time during live concerts and honestly I did a band a couple months ago with a band that had 9 people on stage at the same time and my M2 Pro Mac Mini with the 12 core cpu upgrade didn't even blink while running 26 channels of audio inputs with Thunderbolt plus 12 in ear monitor mixes with Apple's own Mainstage. Sure the CPU usage was around 85% but I had no issues whatsoever and the Mac Mini never even got hot. That was a large set up and the Mac Studio would be a better option in that situation but most shows are 4 or 5 people in a band not 9. So even I can't justify the new Mac Pro since it would just be too big and bulky for my use even with the wheels. But an M2 Ultra Mac Studio would be perfect for my needs.
As much as it sucks, user-upgradeable RAM will likely never be a thing when it comes to any Apple Silicon chips, due to the significant signal degradation caused simply by having to use a connector on a memory bus. Having the memory chips soldered directly onto the SOC package allows them to achieve much higher memory bandwidth than could be achieved otherwise. That said, that doesn't necessarily mean Apple Silicon RAM isn't upgradeable... There's nothing a little bit of soldering can't solve (assuming you can find suitable chips, of course). On another note, I am very curious about how Apple implemented PCIe in these Mac Pros... Will definitely be interesting to see and experiment with.
If other systems can do it, why not Apple? They need to raise voltage and power usage a bit to get a better signal but that is ok on a non portable machine. The reason is that they are so cheap they only want one CPU design. This will fail in a few years,
yep, the Mac Pro announcement was disappointing today, I thought they were gonna glue 4 M2/M3 Max chips (or 2 M2/M3 Ultra). instead they just grabbed the Mac Studio Ultra and switched the case.
OK Luke. I read the specifications. Back in the 1990s I worked at the Crystal River Nuclear Plant. One of my jobs was to interface a computer into spare Nuclear Control System Cabinets for testing, training and simulation. I built a Nuclear Plant in a PC and interfaced it to these spare control cabinets using National Instruments Analog Input, Analog Output, Digital Input, Digital Output and various GPIB controlled Signal Generators. At the time I used LabView for windows. I now use LabView for Mac on my Mac Studio M1 Max as a hobby. I've been retired since 2009. This is what the the M2 Ultra Mac Pro exists for. This is going to be a game changer for the Scientific Community. It has enough high speed IO for major experiments and simulations. PCIe stomps Thunder Bolt into the ground when it comes to speed. But this machine has it all: Eight Thunderbolt Ports, Two 10 Gb Ethernet Ports and enough PCIe slots to control scientific grade instruments. The applications for this machine haven't even been thought of yet. This is way beyond Video Production. I thinking multiple antenna beam control, Realtime control of chemical / biological processes and velocity analysis of Galaxies to predict black hole locations. The uses are only limited by our imagination.
I was in a Mac dealer, and they pulled some details that strongly suggested you CAN replace the RAM. Not completely positive, but that was their conclusion. I was looking at what they were at the same time. So we'll see.
@@davidblock6595 Ah let's hope so. How else can I buy one in 20 years to upgrade it to be as fast as a future low end machine, just for the heck of it?
i work in video production and my company already bought 3 of the new mac pros. apple silicon with pci expansion is going to be HUGE in professional industries.
With the larger case space of the Mac Pro, I would have preferred to have a biggest M2 Extreme chip (currently just the same M2 Ultra chip as the Mac Studio) rather than more PCI Express slots. People who need higher machine learning/graphic performance will build their own computers (with multiple graphics cards) rather than install multiple graphics cards in the Mac Pro. I think a M2 Extreme chip is powerful enough for most Apple target customers if a M2 Extreme with AT LEAST 48-core CPU, 152-core GPU, and 64-core Neural Engine (More is configable). And don't forget that there are rack versions of the Mac Pro, so multiple Mac Pros can be connected together without worrying about scalability.
I run a MacBook Pro with a sonnet echo express se iii. I ordered this Mac rack pro so I can have my blackmagic design decklink cards in the computer. The breakout box works awesome! But you have to turn the go to sleep off, or it disconnects the sonnet and it’s not good if you external drives and monitors connected to it. You have to shut it all down, reboot every time it goes to sleep
I think markups in the case of the recent apple hardware is warranted but I was really hoping to see them calm down on storage prices with these new models.... I truly do think apples quality is the best in the industry but the premiums are very pretentious.
Sorry but the chip manufacture numbers of the NANDs have been checked many times. They are just normal street ware. It's not that they have in any way "special" chips. For sure more tested, but the same specs as a $100 per TB drive.
During the event it was said in the introduction of the new Mac Pro, "There are some Pro users who want Ultimate performance but DEPEND on PCI expansion as well”. That was literally the first thing that was said about it. So if you have no intention of immediately taking advantage of those slots out the box its not for you.
Its not worth it for most ppl, because the mac studio is that machine. But for those few industries that do need those extra io port or connections its fine for there to be an option. This mac pro kinda proves tho that apple doesnt see upgradability/modularity and something worth investing in. We all didnt want to believe it but SoC design meant the death of user friendly upgrades
It's pretty much what I expected. I didn't think they'd engineer in upgradable RAM (or GPUs, for that matter due to the lack of drivers). Keeping my 2019 Mac Pro. It's the last of the x86 upgradable Macs. I can still run Windows on it for gaming, too, which is nice.
@6:30 - can you add 6x PCIe-4x-M.2-NVMe cards, with each having 4x-4TB or 4x-8TB, then RAID them to get better/larger storage? 6 x 4 = 24 NVMe SSD 24 x 4TB = 96TB 24 x 8TB = 192TB
Somebody needs to do an IndieGoGo project to craft a miniature MacPro-chassis-look-alike that allows you to just slide in your Mac Studio. I would buy one :)
Is this the first time since the iBook G3/G4 that there has been a larger consumer-grade Mac laptop? In those days, they was a 12” model and a 14”, with the same screen res, I think. It’s about time. Many of us din’t need that much raw power but bigger screens for text, streaming and still photography is welcome.
Unless if I don’t know something about the PCIe expansion, I can imagine the Mac Pro being a good candidate for the ultimate ARM gaming PC…that is…if you find something even intensive enough to game on a mac…
"ARM gaming PC" oof no thanks (at least for now and foreseeable future), I love Macs but I would never game on them haha, I tried it on my MBP 14 and it's just not fun. It's not like Mac Pro's meant for playing games in the first place, I would rather spend the extra $3000 you'd need to spend for the Mac Pro over the Mac Studio for the same config on a dedicated gaming desktop.
Mac Pro should have been a PC with powerful discrete CPU and GPU. They could make a high-end discrete MPX module maybe with 200-ish apple silicon graphics cores, that would be insane. At the end of the day I think this is a premature release for the Apple.
It’s worth it to the narrow slice of pro users who need all the slots. And for those customers, $3K premium is a drop in the bucket vs the total cost of the workstations they build. I think it makes perfect sense for its states purpose.
PCIE slots mean nothing without drivers to run them. How many pcie peripherals come with mac silicon drivers? I think Luke is being really nearsighted. Every one of those slots could house an entire cpu/gpu/ram/storage set. All "networked" a pcie gen 4(?) or gen 5 speeds. Another pcie card for m.2 storage. The sata connectors seem almost like a diversion.
@@cameronbosch1213 I don't think you got what I was saying. With the right cards from Apple, this thing could become a massively parallel computing platform of pretty high regard. Imagine something like 192 CPU cores and 700 GPU cores, all sharing bandwidth over high speed pcie.
With one year old M2? To be replaced by M3 in october? That will piss off a lot of people. Now, I'm happy with M1 Air with ONE exception - display controllers are just two, with 6k maximum. That means I can't upgrade to high res ultrawide from current ultrawide. And I really don't need nor want a MBP just for that. It's bulky, it's heavy, it's expensive. For web development I absolutely won't utilize multicore nor a GPU. If M3 doesn't come with more display controllers or 8k per one controller I will stay with M1. No reason to upgrade for years. I'm fine with that. Not sure if Apple would be fine with low sales of new models…
So if Avid or ProTools can make drivers for cards that work with Apple Silicon, what's stopping AMD or Nvidia from making drivers? I understand that in the past Apple has developed their own versions of the drivers, but why couldn't the chip makers just publish something?
Woah, I'm a little early this time! I was over the moon to see a Mac Pro with AS and PCIe slots, but honestly? I don't know if the gap in performance will be large enough between the Pro and Studio to make people buy the Mac Pro
The Mac Pro is not for 99% of their users. Hell the Mac Studio isn’t for 99% of their users. But yes, they’re identical machines with MAYBE the Mac Pro itching forward but not by a mile.
It’s possible that the justification for the cost is mostly related to the performance equivalent of 7 $2000 afterburner cards supposedly being built into the system that you didn’t mention. Just an inkling.
Good video! I agree with your assessment on the Mac Pro. Very disappointed that more items weren't modular or available to spec higher. Additionally, we were all hoping that PCIe graphics cards would be compatible. They are not. I was eager to buy this, but I will likely pass. Such a bummer...
Luke didn't they say in the presentation Mac Pro had the equivalent of six afterburner cards in it as well as the M2 Ultra SOC? I do not believe the Mac Studio has the afterburners included. Could that be another reason the price/performance is higher on the Mac Pro versus the Mac Studio?
Well, for some, those PCIe expansion slots are extremely valuable, i'm particularly thinking about the pro audio scene. I/O, FX and other interface cards are infinte. I didn't quite get the Studio to be honest, with only thunderbolt expansion. There are USB/thunderbolt interfaces, but those I'd consider unreliable at best. The Mac was always a robust and reliable tool in pro audio, some still run their cheesegrater mac pros in studios because of that (and the previous mac pro being overly expensive and the one before being a trash can without expansion). This could end up being a pretty good bang for the buck especially in terms of CPU performance and the number of PCIe lanes also look pretty decent on those slots.
the pro audio scene moved to USB/Firewire/Thunderbolt ages ago, there are no pro audio interface brands making PCI cards anymore, and if anyone is still doing it, it has an USB/Thunderbolt counterpart. The only real advantage for those PCI slots is GPUs or fiber cards.
@@diegomax Don’t forget audio over Ethernet: Dante, MH Link, RedNet, etc. That and thunderbolt make PCIe slots pretty irrelevant for professional audio.
I want one of the new Mac Pros! I'd just get the 1TB storage option and utilize the SATA for cheaper expansion. I also just LOVE the way the machines look.
As long as those PCI expansion ports support powerful video cards, and maybe even discrete Apple compute modules, I’m happy. If all it has is places to add extra “internal dongles” so to speak, I’ll be mad. I also hope the M2 Ultra is FULLY UNLOCKED with no compromises in this thing, since it does support 300 W of power unlike any other Apple silicon device.
Mac Pro is made for like 300 people to use, no normal person would spend this much just to get the expansion. Mac Studio is the more mainstream pro marketing computer
The Mac Pro fills a very specific use case: those who need more storage and PCI-E slots. It's a placeholder until Apple gets a beefier chip in it. The other computer announcements were welcome, though I'm still not sold on VR. It seems like VR has been the next big thing for decades now.
It exists because it has 8 Thunderbolt ports, seven PCIe Gen 4 slots, two 10GB Ethernet ports, three USB-A, two HDMI, etc. - expandability. They specifically say it’s those who “rely on internal expansion for their workflows”. If you don’t need these, it’s not for you.
The only expandability I would want would be to add a GTX4090 for 3D graphics as Im betting the M2 Ultra still wont compare. I dont think a GPU can be added to the PCIs
The Mac Pro will be worth it for pros that need that expansion. Sound engineers for one will absolutely need it. If you don’t need the expansion then the studio is for you. But those that need the expansion, really really need it
It's not just expansion. You can run NVME slabs at full speed which is a HUGE advantage. I can get rid of four external PCI-e enclosures and have everything in one box. Yippee!
@@alexiskobalt7450 Couldnt agree more. I switched from my 28 Core Mac Pro to a Studio 9 months ago and regretted having external storage. The fan noise in my room become horrible for studio recordings. I literally waste 20 minutes everyday turning storage on and off to avoid noise. Cant wait to throw my hard drives back into the Pro. So glad I kept them!!!
@@iMagineAS Yeah, I hear you on that. Three of my four TB3 enclosures are just NVME slabs and with two 5K displays, that's pretty much all she wrote for all the TB ports! I have just one spinning drive connected for back-up purposes and, being enterprise grade, drives me nuts with the clicks and hums. Louder than the bloody fan. Doubt I will hear it inside the new Pro. But I am assuming that those are three SATA drive drawers on the left hand side of the box?
@@alexiskobalt7450 I did keep my Pegasus expansion just in case. Looks like it still fits at the top. It will be interesting to see what we can fit. Funny people don’t realize how much quiet storage matters. No more external NAS machines for days to day work. So happy!
@@iMagineAS Exactly! Every REAL pro in the audio/video sector is screaming with joy at the new Pro. Clueless RUclipsrs who hunt for dealz at the Dollar Store, not so much. And when Apple releases the M3 version next year, we'll buy that one, too, having made use of the M2 version for a solid, productive year.
If you work in pro audio or pro video, you *need* PCIe slots for various interfaces. Beyond that, I am quite disappointed in the available options. It's Apple trying to dictate to professionals what they need.
From an audio perspective, a top-of-the-line audio interface like the Babyface Pro FS runs off USB 2.0. The only interface I can think of that requires PCIe is the Avid HDX, and who really needs bolt-on DSP with a modern CPU like the M2?
@@goldbugclassic You're thinking like a home musician. Think more along the lines of an actual studio: you have 200+ channels and need them all at ultra-low latency. You're probably using MADI to route the signals, and need way more DSP power than the M2 alone can deliver.
@@davidg5898 What about Mac Studio? That one is also not aimed at consumers? Many many people prefer desktop computers, so that leaves just the weak Mac Mini, or even weaker iMac.
Would be interesting to see how the CPU / Ram is installed on the motherboard - if its soldered or modular, if not perhaps the next version could have a modular computing unit to upgrade GPU / Ram
@@ZhuJo99 is it on a different chip in a single package, or is it one massive chip? I’m sure many large “SOCs” are in fact multiple chips in one package, and it’s done for yield reasons. I can’t see how they’d keep the yields high if it’s just one chip, but I’m not an expert.
On the Mac PRO, Considering that a Thunderbolt to 3xPCIe external can retail for $1,000.00 each: 6xPCIe integrated and what looked to me like SATA ports and extra thunderbolt for a 3k bump may not be out of the question if one has the use for those peripherals. If expansion is not needed, the Studio is a right fit - IMHO.
The new Mac Pro feels like the HomePod gen 2 - an afterthought. I was expecting to see a BEAST with 4 x M2 Ultra chips packed in there (or maybe 2, common!!) but it's basically a Mac Studio with PCI slots. Why did they make this thing?
I was thinking the same until they pointed out in the keynote that if you fill those PCI-E slots up with input cards, the Mac Pro can handle 24 streams of 4K video and encode them in realtime. For live TV production (eg sports) this will be a major selling point. The Mac Pro is really just for a few specific use cases, for everything else the Mac Studio will work
@@evacody1249 I never said they would just change their setups like that. I merely pointed out that the expansion in the Mac Pro coupled with the capability of the new chips lends itself nicely to live tv production
Problem with the PCIe slots is that the whole system really only has 32 PCIe lanes. 8 go to the SSD, 8 are split between SATA, internal USB, and the I/O card and PCIe slot 6. The remaining 16 lanes are split between the remaining 5 PCIe slots. Slot 1 and Slot 2 are both wired to be x16 slots, but they are on a switch so can't both receive that much bandwidth simultaneously. The M2 Ultra doesn't have enough PCIe lanes for it.
I feel pretty happy with the new desktops that are out. The cheese grater is a bit expensive but I like it, would've been nice to get the 384gb memory option but 192gb should be plenty enough for multi tasking. I think the M2 Max 30c GPU Studio 1tb is the sweet spot though.
My 16" MBP fully maxxed out IS my Mac Pro! It's amazing what I can do with this machine on the go! And with the new Corsair TB4 dock, it drives my 5K monitor and connects me to my 10Gbps LAN too. I don't need wheels and the speakers sound great! I've had people walk in my office thinking I had speakers on my desk! As far as going the other way, I would love to see them come out with a Macbook Mini with a 13" thin bezel miniLED promotion display, M2, etc. Think 12" Macbook size! Something like that with 16GB RAM and 512GB storage would be perfect for lightweight travel. Even put a 5G modem with esim in it as an option like iPads.
The new Mac Pro was a necessary stop gap that the circumstances forced Apple to do. Attempts to make a quad M1 version failed initially due to poor scalability and yield/costs. One of the main reasons for the delay among other challenges (chip shortage crisis). Apple had their backs against the wall: Intel introduced recently newer versions of Xeons replacing the last generation Xeons used in the 2019 Intel MP. Apple had to order the new chips if they wanted to keep the MP in the lineup, something they did not want to do, stay in business with them. Updating the 2019 MP model to a 2023 "speed bumped" with new Intel Xeons was a worst scenario as no one in their sane minds would buy it today, especially with the anticipation for a rumored AS version in the works. With the M3 still far away of mass production status, the press pressuring with the embarrassingly failed transition deadline, and pro customers waiting impatiently for the AS MP (tanking the 2019 Intel sales), Apple had no choice but to rush this "Studio-in-a-MP-case-stop-gap" machine with little to no effort put into it, while the REAL M3 AS Mac Pro is delayed to 2024. This is just an educated guess putting together a chain of facts and events that might led Apple to choose the lesser of two (evils?) embarrassing scenarios.
If you have an older Mac Pro and want to keep the aesthetic with the Pro Display XDR, then sure. Also, it remains a beautiful design. So if you have the money, why not? Sure, a few need the expansion, so they are covered. But for anyone else, the Mac Studio is the "buy." I'm good with this. We have been spoiled with the performance from the past few years.
The new Mac Studio has zero expansion slots, zero chance for GPU upgrade, and no user-installed memory upgrades either. A very different machine than Mac Pro.
@@DerekDavis213 sure but the Mac Studio is still powerful and runs a ultra chip with the same chip options as in the mac pro the only difference is expansion and upgradability
@@allstarkidXD The Mac Pro will accept some *monster* video cards, while the Mac Studio only has the very weak gpu that is built into the M1 or M2 Ultra. And the Mac Studio will not accept external gpu boxes over Thunderbolt, like the Intel-based Macs will. A big loss for Mac customers. It seems like any way you slice it, paying more than $5000 USD for Mac Studio is a very bad idea.
@@DerekDavis213 yeah but the Mac Pro is a disappointment cause it has a lot of empty space inside the case the Mac Studio is still powerful i know many video makers that use it m2 and m1 are very great chips unlike the intel days where you had to get the most expensive mac pro thats changed with apples m chips
@@allstarkidXD Agreed that M1 or M2 are very good for *one* *thing* : video editing. But for everything else, Windows is the price vs performance leader. M1 or M2 are pretty much a joke in Blender or Maya, where NVidia RTX 4080 or 4090 totally rule. Also, gaming is very very popular these days, and Mac with M1 or M2 is just terrible for gaming. It is no surprise that Windows dominates worldwide, with *90* *percent* *marketshare* .
My main machine for the past 10 years was a 2012 Intel MacPro. Loved everything about it. Except when Apple stopped supporting it. Waited a bit for a new MacPro but eventually decided on a M1 Studio with 64GB of RAM. It's great and I see no need for this new MacPro. Do I miss the customization of the Pro? Yes, but the Studio has been a really nice computer. Great video!
Same here. Still using my box from 2014. Only, its a PC workstation I built, is still fully upgradeable, fully supported tech. its fast enough for anything I do, including 3d, which is mostly offloaded to the gpu today anyway. Oh, and being a PC, I can choose from any gpu i want. I could also overclock it, but just never felt the need (that may change).
Personally I like this angle of Luke looking down at the computer at a desk instead of straight to camera, feels more relaxed imo. Great recap as always!
On a sceptical note, I suspect Apple is taking advantage with the MacPro that there are businesses and self-employed people who already have existing professional PCIe cards they need and whose new purchase (in the form of an external solution) is well over $3000. Optimistically: The transition away from external manufacturers, such as Intel, is complete and with the new MacPro Apple is giving its customers, who are still dependent on PCIe cards, a little more time to adapt to the change. With the high surcharge, Apple is probably also compensating for the higher costs due to the lower number of units they will produce and sell, since most customers will choose the MacStudio.
@@一本のうんち And that's true, but macOS isn't what it used to be. If they really need power, then Linux, specifically RHEL, would be the best option, as DaVinci Resolve still works, as does Blender and CUDA, the latter which still does not have any macOS equivalent. Apple literally ejected every good thing about the Mac Pro with this model, and I think it's going to flop worse than every other Apple Silicon Mac so far.
I feel like the inclusion of additional PCIe slots does not justify the additional $3k cost, regardless of the target user. Sure, it will be nice having additional peripherals, but as far as storage goes, read/write speed on Thunderbolt 4 is already really solid. Even if I had the money, I don’t think I could ever justify the price.
The 15” MacBook Air is going to be very popular for businesses and universities who buy computers in bulk. On the university campus where I work, 90% of users are extremely well served by the hardware in the MacBook Air so offering a larger screen for faculty, staff, and students makes a ton of sense and will make this a very popular computer for those users.
Additionally Luke, could you do a video comparing two 14 inch M2 Max MacBook Pros: the binned 30 core GPU vs the full 38 core GPU variant? I’d like to know how much extra performance you get with 8 more GPU cores, and whether or not fewer GPU cores helps battery life or throttling.
Look, you mentioned it your self PCIe NVME card. If that card is RAID, you get insane speeds on storage that will be used by OS for memory swaps. Plus now with M series, there is a path forwards to more frequent updates/upgrades.
M1 Pro is incredible! It plays back and edits 12K files from URSA Mini Pro WITH chrome opened AND RUclips video playing. Again, no FX! However, basic VFX such as background delete + color grading in 12K takes HOURS to apply and render, which makes sense as it seems to be either the machine's or optimization limit. A 10 second VFX clip in 12K took 6 hours to make (application and render). I've upgraded my laptop to M1 Pro 16gb because I was shooting in 4K RAW and now that I also use an 8K/12K capable camera the M1 Pro, it is only really struggling with effects applied in Davinci Resolve, in 4K with masks and fusion it takes some time to buffer but it's very fast and workable, and I'm using an external SSD to cache and proxy everything because otherwise it will fill the internal SSD in a matter of minutes. In the studio I've worked at previously we had a 5000$ + i9 with I think 64gb of RAM and it hiccuped with effects as well and performed worse than the M1 and that was in 4K. So I'm kind of unsure if spending a couple grand will increase my performance all that much. I always aim to get the most out of my gear but this might take some time and optimization. So yea, if you're not doing effects M1 Pro 16 can handle insane resolutions. With effects though - not so much )
Use case for expansion cards is AVID ProTools HDX cards, and other processing cards for pro use. Longtime users probably wont use it until it's been proven to be bug-free and rock solid.
Sadly we’re still dealing with ssd issue at the base model but given that you can get the 14” MBPro on sale for $1600 I don’t think it’s worth upgrading the 15” ssd for $1500… can’t believe the low price on this! AMAZING
At least the wheel upgrade is only +$400 now.
it was $400 before
@@jacksontint they were $700 before.
Thé wheel price is now included
What a deal right? 😂🎉😂
@@425ivanhoe they were $1000 before.
The new Mac Pro feels very much like a Stop Gap… they wanted to get off Intel and say they completed the transition while at the same time buy themselves time to work on a much more significant processor in future (presumably in the M3 family).
Might be a bit optimistic of me, but that’s what it feels like.
Yeah you're way too optomistic. When M3 comes around it will be exactly the same... still no reason to have a Mac Pro when the M3 goes in the Mac Studio just as easily.
@@serqetry fair point. I mean the 3 manometer process more specifically rather than the M3 itself. I expect if Apple do decide to do anything more grand with the Mac Pro they’d want to do it on the new process.. they were never gonna do it with the M2 family bud they equally didn’t want to have to support the Intel Mac Pro anymore.. so this was their way out for the meantime.
It is hard for me to understand what would be the business model for a different processor on a MacPro. The Mac Pro market is tiny due to its price, the cost of developing such CPU is very high. How could Apple justify it?
Also, with tiny numbers sold, they have to update the model almost yearly or new Studios will kill old MPs…
@@tokelahti this video from Max Tech had a much better idea on how it could be done. Obviously it’s all based on speculation and may never come to fruition (especially as it’s from a few months ago), but it’s still a very cool idea for Mac Pro expansion m.ruclips.net/video/hasmUjM5gVM/видео.html
UAD-2 OCTO Core PCIe DSP Accelerator, HDX PCIe Core Card, BM 12k DeckLink, 390-channel 24-bit 192 kHz triple MADI PCIe card, 100GbE Dual-Port. That kind of Kiting it out? I'd love to see that. If you have another $10k for actual professional expansion cards.
During the announcement you can actually see the back side of the new Mac Pro motherboard. The moved the 2 storage slots to the top under the covers that used to house the ram. In the center of the board you can see a big chip which I think is a PCIe switch, since I assume the M2 Ultra doesn't have enough PCIe lanes to actually feed all the slots.
Indeed. If it’s less than 64 it’s a step backwards compared to the intel one.
So then, does the SoC have data and address pins for external RAM?
Funny how a new Mac Pro (and new Mac Studio) became “Oh, by the way…” because of the “One more thing.” The minuscule M2-Ultra Mac Studio is the huge Mac Pro without PCI slots. That’s amazing!
PCIe… They sell a laptop as a “Pro” workstation, wow… without GPUs and tons of RAM, what’s the purpose of this?
You know what else is amazing? A Windows PC with NVidia RTX 4080 or 4090 card is *MUCH* *FASTER* than Mac Studio, and for about half the price.
And of course the Windows software ecosystem is far beyond Mac.
I agree that this seems like a “forced hand” release. For all the lack of upgradeability this Mac body should’ve definitely have been redesigned. Hey I’m a Pro Tools HD guy and internal PCI-e expansion is great but not for $3K. They must be thinking back on the days of Magma chassis. I do like the fact you can still order a rackmount version, definitely more “pro” than the four legged model. Not wanting to sound negative but I think this was rushed and should have been redesigned for the market users.
its just for storage and networking
If your work requires 7 PCIe capture cards, it’s worth $3,000. It’s not really aimed at anyone else. They specifically say it’s for those who “rely on internal expansion for their workflows.”
@@rdspam And yet there are plenty of people who would love to have 2-3-4 PCIe slots NOT for $3000...
@@rdspam thats assuming apple silicon will allow this type of upgrades
@@rdspam because as of right now according to them its for storage and networking no mention of HDX cards or the like
I doubt they will let you change the integrated storage but the website implies you can use pcie gen 4 ssd cards to expand storage which is great if you need it. I think the Mac Pro is only for people like Neil Parfitt who needs to cram 7 avid cards into his mac to control all of his audio equipment and the Mac Studio is the new Mac Pro for most people.
the internal ssd is upgradeable
@@rohithmekala2608 it was on the 7,1, but I wonder if that stays true for the 8,1
Yes this, people forget the Pro spec means just that it's for studios editors at the highest level who need expansion slots.
Add additional storage, not expanded existing storage. Any storage added via PCIe will be separate to the onboard storage at initial purchase.
@@mikeward1701 right which is how it worked on the intel Mac Pro I think
It would've been nice to see Unified Memory and regular DDR5 slots on the Mac Pro. Basically the 192GB of Unified memory gets used up, then it offloads it to the DDR5 memory, freeing up the unified memory. Compared to using an SSD, using RAM as 'swap' is much faster, has minimal performance penalty, and it lasts much longer
I wonder if you could make the PCIe read some ram as storage and then dedicate it to swap only for this reason
@@YD_. Could be done but nobody would bother, vast majority of apple users don't even know anything about hardware! Nobody will waste their money to design and produce something that only a handful of them will be sold..
@@ggoddkkiller1342 users buying the Mac Pro do though. That’s the point of the Mac Pro. Also I was talking about making it for yourself, not selling it
I was really hoping this Mac Pro would signal a compatibility towards both native Windows on ARM support AND proper eGPU support on the M1, something sorely missing from the Intel days.
Looks like I am waiting just a little bit longer.
Apple prob gonna make their own eGPUs at this point
ARM Windows running natively on Apple Silicon is Microsoft’s job to fix. You size the glove to fit the hand, not the other way around.
@@mikeward1701 well both Apple and Windows has to work together to do that but it seems like Apple doesnt give a shit
There is nothing *native* about 'Windows on ARM'. The whole world, and especially the Fortune 500 companies run Windows on AMD or Intel x86 processors. That is the worldwide standard.
@@ronaldmcdonald6067 Apple has done the work and designed the chip architecture. It’s now Microsoft’s job to make Windows work in it.
I hope it ll help for the new Mac Pro ;) thanks for the info I did not expect anything new from Apple so early
The internal PCI extensions are essential to high end production facilities, like movies, games, biologicals, among others. But It would also make sense for the rest of us if it could be upgraded from M2 to the future M3, exchanging the processing block.
Games? No game developer would a mac for development lol.
It makes sense in all consumer equipment really and I would argue that it is essential to any general purpose desktop computer. It comes as standard on x86 boards regardless of price point.
@@Chopper153 *plenty* of game studios build on and develop for macOS, non-exclusive of Windows; for example: Blizzard/Activision, Epic, Nintendo, EA, T2, I could go on. The only way to develop for iOS and macOS is on a mac. plus with Apple's new porting mechanism, they'll become much more prominent in studios in the next few years.
@@Rotwold the pcie expansion on most consumer desktops is limited to gpus, something that is not available for arm macs
Move movie and games have internal render farms and already have their systems set up. They would not just replace everything for these new mac pros. Also a lot of high end studios use Linux as well.
I work in Audio Post Mixing and have the Mac Studio with a Thunderbolt Expansion 3 PCI enclosure for Pro tools cards and SSD's. It is not the best solution TBH. I would take the mac Pro any day of the week. The extra 3K would be worth it for a lot of pro uses that don't want to muck around with Thunderbolt bandwith issues slowing things down. Also x6 slots would be very nice to have.
By the time you bought a multi slot PCI-E Chassis then they only 3 slot and around 1500 so to get the slots would have to buy 2 so looking at 3k with 2 external boxes fed by 2 TB buses.
or buy a Mac Pro and have those slots internally and no TB restriction in the PCI-E slots.
Finally some that gets it🤝🏻
almost anything is worth it when your making money with it, but $3000 for a bigger chassis is a scam nonetheless
EXACTLY.
6:14 The storage is indeed upgradable! The SSD modules are already listed on Apple's website, but they are ridiculously expensive. 2 TB for $1000, 4 TB for $1600, and 8 TB for $2800.
External storage a better option.
@@arricammarques1955 internal storage you mean. That’s why the Mac Pro exists. It’s at least $2k too expensive, but you don’t have to hand a bunch of separate boxes and cables running all over your desk, just a computer large enough for doing work. 8TB as 4 2TB NVMe drives can come in well under $800. Add 2 or 4 sata drives for an internal 30+ TB cold storage, plus some networking/capture cards to your needs and it’s perfect except the price.
@@stevenedwardyoung NANDs are in a free fall. Samsung SSD 980 PRO 2 is one of the best SSD out there and cost $120 for 2TB. And yes a mechanical 3,5 slot and a 5,25" for a M-Disc or Tape for backup that is what a professional case would need. Apple is a Pro Joke.
A, those prices are absurd. B, is the storage actually an upgrade, or an addition? C, if it is an upgrade, what happens when Apple stops supporting it, can third parties make the same modules. D, if it an addition, no one should ever buy those, a dozen highly reputable manufacturers have offerings that are highly likely much better and cost half or less.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 Upgrade. “8TB SSD Upgrade Kit for Mac Pro enables you to upgrade the internal SSD storage capacity of your Mac Pro. This kit, containing two 4TB modules, replaces the current SSD module or modules in your system. “
Great stuff Luke. You zoomed into the most interesting hardware. The Mac Pro cheese grater is interesting but just a big beautiful empty box. Will love to watch you fill one. Beyond my reach, happy with my M2 pro Mac mini, as fast as I need. yes a 15 inch M2 MacBook Air just what you wanted (but maybe M3).
Paul, the M2 Mini, though I don't have one or have used one, is pretty sweet. More thunderbolt 4 connection that the M1, which I have. I totally drank the coolaid and went for the Mac Pro, It did cost a fortune though.
Well the Mac Pro will be amazing but be interesting to see if it beats the M2 Ultra Mac Studio. Be interested to hear what PCIe cards you plan to put in the big empty box.
the main reason I am considering getting the m2 Mac Pro is for the full bandwidth PCIe expansion, yes I could buy a Mac Studio and a thunderbolt PCIe enclosure but even thunderbolt 4 does not have enough bandwidth for my needs, my plan was to get one of the m2 Mac Pros and install 2 Blackmagic 8k pro cards, 1 Blackmagic decklink quad 2, a 4xm.2 PCIe card, a Dante audio card and a 4 port usb c card (yes I know it's a lot of inputs and outputs but I do use it all) if I were to put all that in thunderbolt enclosures I would need at least 4 enclosure taking up 4 of my thunderbolt ports on a Mac Studio leaving me with only 2 thunderbolt ports for the rest of my peripherals including the 5 displays I use at work (I work in live events) whereas the Mac Pro has 8 thunderbolts ports which won't have to be used for PCIe expansion, only thunderbolt docks, drives and monitors, it may be expenive but for quite a few people it's worth it.
For someone like you, the added cost is a complete afterthought when compared to the money being made from the work done... that is the true barometer of this product. The people who will actually purchase this understand the value that is given buy the expansion. Apple isn't in the market to re-engineer all of those products that are already done well by others.
Respect! How much do you earn to afford such expensive hardware? Its a rhetorical question; Not expecting an answer. :) We only dream of possessing maybe a single Mac studio, that too after cutting all corners, squeezing dry the piggy bank and then maybe wait another year to buy the accompanying Studio display, err... without the hinge :P
@@jadhavanchi I will say that I certainly don't earn a tonne, won't give exact details but I have to save but the main reason for upgrading is I'm running a Mac Pro 5,1 and I've filled every PCIe slot (only got a decklink quad, a sonnet usb-c card and a sonnet u.2 card) every drive bay and am using 100% of the cpu and gpu when I'm live-streaming, it's gonna take a while to save but it's a much needed upgrade.
I would've been more enthusiastic for just eGPU support, even if its just with the current Radeon gpu's that they currently already have support for. Can only imagine what sort of performance gain that can represent in video/3d work knowing you have Apple Silicon plus say a Radeon 6900 XT attached to it?
You can only imagine. Apple won't work with AMD again. They're a solo company now and they won't rely on anyone else but their manufacturers. Such a shame, because I think these kinds of pro machines should be getting top of the line real and theoretical performance.
Considering their GPUs have already passed what they have used in macs up until now, I’d say it’s pointless
the pcie slots are or networking ad storage only this time
Thunderbolt 4 is a bottleneck at this point compared to the top of the line graphics in the Mac Studio
Once Asahi Linux runs on this, there's a good chance that they'll be able to patch in graphics card support. Ampere's ARM chips has had GPU support for years now, so the platform is there to build upon.
No update for the iMac. Wow.
I think it's dead unless Apple drops the price and the base two port model.
As a Pro Studio owner it’s
Essential for me to have PCI slots for running ProTools. This is what kept me from upgrading as far as the Mac Pro is concerned for years, so I’m happy to see this. Not happy about the price tag, but such is life.
That's my view, as well. About the price, the gap is around $3,000 for the cabinet and PCIs from Mac Studio Ultra.
Can't you use Thunderbolt PCIe enclosures with the existing models? The bandwidth would be limited but still way more than enough for audio interfaces.
Would have seriously considered a Mac Pro if it offered dedicated NVIDIA Ada GPUs, mainly for CUDA programming and 3D-Rendering. But that's never gonna happen.
I really wish Apple would bring back eGPU support on MacOs. I personally like the form factor, size and ports on my M1 Ultra Mac Studio. I'd just like a little more GPU power for CGI work.
I think the bigger issue is the modeling program taking advantage of the hardware. Blender performs really well with nvidia GPUs and not with others (but being able to slot in an nvidia GPU could solve that issue, lol)
@@AndersHass Yeah that is very possible. I know that Apple has been contributing and working directly with the Blender development team to make improvements and have come quite a long way. I'm currently using C4D with Redshift and overall, it runs pretty well on my M1 Ultra Mac Studio, but it's definitely not perfect. Which is a bit of a disappointment being that Apple showcased Maxon's C4D & Redshift in the video for the M1 Ultra Mac Studio. While I've been able to create some awesome work with C4D on the Mac Studio, I've had quite a few exchanges with Maxon support over the past year due to glitches and other issues with C4D/Redshift on Apple Silicon. My hope is that 3D will continue to get better on MacOs. I've heard rumors of hardware ray tracing with future Apple Silicon chips, but we'll see.
I'm a commercial advertising photographer and digital artist and my primary use for my Mac Studio has been commercial photography & video. It's been amazing with everything I've done outside of 3D/CGI. But even with CGI it's been pretty good.
@@AndersHass kinda funny that unreal engine and unity struggle to load basic plugins with MacOS tell now cuz ARM and they talk about game dev
Even a Windows PC with $600 USD RTX 4070 card is much more powerful than M1 Ultra Mac Studio in Blender or Maya. And for a lot less money.
@@DerekDavis213 Market capitalization of NVIDIA (NVDA)
Market cap: $954.75 Billion
As of June 2023 NVIDIA has a market cap of $954.75 Billion. This makes NVIDIA the world's 6th most valuable company
Having 6 full bandwidth PCIe 4.0x16 expansion slots could be very useful for those who Thunderbolt 4 simply won't cut it but it is not worth $3000 extra. Nevertheless I'm glad they have figured a way of giving us PCIe expansion. The way x86_x64 handles memory is not efficient, most applications will perform better with the unified memory even though it is limited to only 196GB.
I think they are selling expansion storage now. I'm stoked to see you put it through its paces.
I just dropped my cash on a base m1 ultra studio. Why? Because the m2 Max is almost more expensive (and is back order), but with less performance than m1 ultra studio refurbished.
I would have held off if the m3 studio max had been on offer to order.
The refurbished m1 ultra is kneecapped but still outperforms the m2 Max at a comparable price point.
The m2 MacPro is a bit of a joke. Pcie 4th gen, err fail. So. Current NVMe is faster than the MacPro would be sped limited. And same current third party GPU would be kneecapped. So it’s a storage overkill, but not really.
The MacPro is merely filling the empty marketing slot in apples bizarre line up.
If Apple had added a secondary m.2 NVMe slot in the m2 studio line up. Users would be much much happier.
Apple needs to returning to doing the job right.
@@johnwaldmann5222This would've made sense if it had a hybrid system with upgradeable RAM. This product makes no sense to me
You can expand the storage on the mac pro, they are also selling upgrade kits for the same price as the old pro
I feel like this is something they never wanted to make and behind closed doors the conversation was "so here's a big empty box for all of those PCI-E slots you supposedly need. Enjoy the $3k premium for this stupid thing!"
Apple knows its customers well: $3k premium for a 'stupid thing' is quite acceptable to Apple fan bois.
Can’t believe Apple makes a computer in 2023 with 8GB shared ram, it’s embarrassing!
No matter how many times people online say "oh, but it works in a different way to PC memory", the headline figure of 8Gb is still pitiful!
Yeah currently on base MBA M1 and constantly swapping with storage for ram
Honestly. Pretty sure the original one had the same amount... From 2006...
They also had Intel machines with 4GB of RAM long after the OS really needed at least 8. So, it's not out of character. Of course it was upgradeable but I'm betting a low percentage of people actually ever did that.
@@doctahjonez No those supported up to 3gb
Just to add my two cents. Unless Apple has changed this from the Intel model, you're also getting a 1000W power supply. The PCIe slots are also crucial for colorists that need dedicated video singles for reference monitors. Also, if you're a VFX house, getting everything connected with fiber for rendering and reducing latency between your footage/assets on the network. Also, also, I'm sure some producers and sound engineers can chime in on what they need PCIe for as well. This machine is definitely not for the everyday user or content creator.
A lot of what you said is true. I'm a colorist as well. I just posted my comments, but in short I went with the Pro to be able to put in a high end Blackmagic Decklink. I'll save just over 2K doing it, so the extra cost justified it. A lot of good comments and observations on here though. Thanks for yours Yaroslav.
I’m a colorist building out my new studio, and looking to upgrade from my aging iMac Pro w/ 18 cores (dog slow now). I have a EIZO color correct monitor now, but looking to also run a feed to my new color correct projector. I’m planning to buy the Black Magic Design UltraStudio 4K mini which uses thunderbolt to HDMI to somehow bypass the GPU for more accurate color, and produce a cleaner video signal. My initial thought was this would be needed for the Mac Studio, but it would be good to know if that device would somehow *not* be needed with the Mac Pro? I’m not a hardware engineer, so I don’t quite know why the device makes the video signal somehow better out of a Mac due to it’s GPU, nor do I know if that is obviated or not with the Mac Pro design. Can anyone with more knowledge clarify?
@@cavaleri69 This def sounds a question for the BMD Forums. They are way more knowledgable.
I was hoping for at least apple silicon expansion slots. Like a specific one with just apple silicon gpu cores or one specific for machine learning with a GPU+ANE combo or one with just a straight up M2 chip to run a virtual machine or something. That would have been interesting.
Indeed. That - aside for making good point for baseline M2 8/256 without GUI etc and with ecoding accelerators and perhaps FPGA slot for specialized cores....
Great idea but it'll never happen.
@@dillardc81 it's possible! they've developed PCIe cards before for specific use-cases (ie the afterburner card). with some board magic, they could theoretically provide a specific connectivity (and PCIe interchangeable) protocol, too. it's probably not too likely given how fast their integrated GPUs are getting, but it could be really useful as AI models grow in size, to the point where OBM can't even handle them.
This pricing is absurd. You’re paying $3000 over the equivalent Mac Studio for the PCIe slots and case.
The new Mac Pro exists because Apple was lazy to redesign the Intel Mac Pro. Lots of empty space. That is absurd!
They basically got lazy and are going to kill it soon in favor of the Mac Studio. There's no longer a reason to buy it. Just get a Mac Studio unless the user needs PCIe expansion, in which case you'll need to go Windows/Linux
One thing that Apple showed was the black box that has the SOC inside of it animated into place. And there are rumors about “processor modules.” I am thinking that, if you can upgrade your Apple Silicon Mac Pro to the M3 chip, that rocks, as it allows you to buy a case with a module for an upgrade. When you get yours look and see if that processor module (the black box with the SOC and unified RAM) can be removed.
If you remove that SOC, what is left ? a box with PCI slots and power supply ? upgrading SOC is like buying a new computer anyway.
@@sanaksanandan maybe it will be those 3k cheaper 🤣
@@ZhuJo99 I am sure, the box itself is $2000
I could see some movie studios using the Mac Pro with Avid cards like the Pro Tools HDX system and maybe some recording studios as well, but PCI DSP cards for audio are pretty much a thing of the past and more of a luxury. Live Television and big multi-cam switching like those mega churches who stream services with 10 cameras and AVB or Dante audio might use the Mac Pro as a over grown OBS or Wirecast machine. I do live sound and own a recording studio and honestly anything bigger than the Mac Studio is really a waste of money for me and I would consider myself as using the most up to date setups in my field. We use computers as plugin servers to use audio plugins in real-time during live concerts and honestly I did a band a couple months ago with a band that had 9 people on stage at the same time and my M2 Pro Mac Mini with the 12 core cpu upgrade didn't even blink while running 26 channels of audio inputs with Thunderbolt plus 12 in ear monitor mixes with Apple's own Mainstage. Sure the CPU usage was around 85% but I had no issues whatsoever and the Mac Mini never even got hot. That was a large set up and the Mac Studio would be a better option in that situation but most shows are 4 or 5 people in a band not 9. So even I can't justify the new Mac Pro since it would just be too big and bulky for my use even with the wheels. But an M2 Ultra Mac Studio would be perfect for my needs.
As much as it sucks, user-upgradeable RAM will likely never be a thing when it comes to any Apple Silicon chips, due to the significant signal degradation caused simply by having to use a connector on a memory bus. Having the memory chips soldered directly onto the SOC package allows them to achieve much higher memory bandwidth than could be achieved otherwise. That said, that doesn't necessarily mean Apple Silicon RAM isn't upgradeable... There's nothing a little bit of soldering can't solve (assuming you can find suitable chips, of course).
On another note, I am very curious about how Apple implemented PCIe in these Mac Pros... Will definitely be interesting to see and experiment with.
You are the god of these upgrades 🙇
of course the probability of it working is slimmer than a ram chip, but would be awesome to watch you, sometime in the future, making said upgrade
PCIe is just an standard, so nothing is stopping them for making their own implementation.
If other systems can do it, why not Apple? They need to raise voltage and power usage a bit to get a better signal but that is ok on a non portable machine. The reason is that they are so cheap they only want one CPU design. This will fail in a few years,
That might not be true if they support cxl. Memory is added over pcie. CXL memory modules are already in production.
yep, the Mac Pro announcement was disappointing today, I thought they were gonna glue 4 M2/M3 Max chips (or 2 M2/M3 Ultra). instead they just grabbed the Mac Studio Ultra and switched the case.
The fact that GPU upgrades *still* aren’t possible even with the internal PCIe slots makes the Pro useless.
It’s a marketing ploy to sell more Mac Studios.
OK Luke. I read the specifications.
Back in the 1990s I worked at the Crystal River Nuclear Plant. One of my jobs was to interface a computer into spare Nuclear Control System Cabinets for testing, training and simulation. I built a Nuclear Plant in a PC and interfaced it to these spare control cabinets using National Instruments Analog Input, Analog Output, Digital Input, Digital Output and various GPIB controlled Signal Generators. At the time I used LabView for windows. I now use LabView for Mac on my Mac Studio M1 Max as a hobby. I've been retired since 2009.
This is what the the M2 Ultra Mac Pro exists for. This is going to be a game changer for the Scientific Community. It has enough high speed IO for major experiments and simulations. PCIe stomps Thunder Bolt into the ground when it comes to speed. But this machine has it all: Eight Thunderbolt Ports, Two 10 Gb Ethernet Ports and enough PCIe slots to control scientific grade instruments.
The applications for this machine haven't even been thought of yet. This is way beyond Video Production. I thinking multiple antenna beam control, Realtime control of chemical / biological processes and velocity analysis of Galaxies to predict black hole locations. The uses are only limited by our imagination.
The RAM isn't expandable, and yet they dare to call it eco-friendly? These machines will have the longevity of a wet slice of bread.
I was in a Mac dealer, and they pulled some details that strongly suggested you CAN replace the RAM. Not completely positive, but that was their conclusion. I was looking at what they were at the same time. So we'll see.
@@davidblock6595 Ah let's hope so. How else can I buy one in 20 years to upgrade it to be as fast as a future low end machine, just for the heck of it?
i work in video production and my company already bought 3 of the new mac pros. apple silicon with pci expansion is going to be HUGE in professional industries.
With the larger case space of the Mac Pro, I would have preferred to have a biggest M2 Extreme chip (currently just the same M2 Ultra chip as the Mac Studio) rather than more PCI Express slots.
People who need higher machine learning/graphic performance will build their own computers (with multiple graphics cards) rather than install multiple graphics cards in the Mac Pro.
I think a M2 Extreme chip is powerful enough for most Apple target customers if a M2 Extreme with AT LEAST 48-core CPU, 152-core GPU, and 64-core Neural Engine (More is configable).
And don't forget that there are rack versions of the Mac Pro, so multiple Mac Pros can be connected together without worrying about scalability.
I run a MacBook Pro with a sonnet echo express se iii. I ordered this Mac rack pro so I can have my blackmagic design decklink cards in the computer. The breakout box works awesome! But you have to turn the go to sleep off, or it disconnects the sonnet and it’s not good if you external drives and monitors connected to it. You have to shut it all down, reboot every time it goes to sleep
There ssd prices are so crazy considering current SSD prices the fastest gen 4 4tb drives are currently around $300
I think markups in the case of the recent apple hardware is warranted but I was really hoping to see them calm down on storage prices with these new models.... I truly do think apples quality is the best in the industry but the premiums are very pretentious.
Sorry but the chip manufacture numbers of the NANDs have been checked many times. They are just normal street ware. It's not that they have in any way "special" chips. For sure more tested, but the same specs as a $100 per TB drive.
That's the dumbest fanboy take I've ender heard. What a joke.
@@llothar68 source?
During the event it was said in the introduction of the new Mac Pro,
"There are some Pro users who want Ultimate performance but DEPEND on PCI expansion as well”.
That was literally the first thing that was said about it. So if you have no intention of immediately taking advantage of those slots out the box its not for you.
Its not worth it for most ppl, because the mac studio is that machine. But for those few industries that do need those extra io port or connections its fine for there to be an option.
This mac pro kinda proves tho that apple doesnt see upgradability/modularity and something worth investing in. We all didnt want to believe it but SoC design meant the death of user friendly upgrades
It doesn't have to be. Apple CHOSE to solder on SSDs, when Microsoft still makes them replaceable even on the ARM Surface tablets.
It's pretty much what I expected. I didn't think they'd engineer in upgradable RAM (or GPUs, for that matter due to the lack of drivers). Keeping my 2019 Mac Pro. It's the last of the x86 upgradable Macs. I can still run Windows on it for gaming, too, which is nice.
Finally they can count the days of Intel support. I expect Intel support will be dropped in 2025.
@@llothar68 I sure as fuck hope not. That would be PowerPC all over again.
It’s really interesting that they lowered the price by a lot in Europe of the Air
Same in America. The 13" M2 Air is now 1,099 USD. There is now NO reason to buy the M1 Air at the $999 price point.
@@migueltoledo1884 unless you buy it at ~$850 outside the Apple Store.
@@LetrixAR As an M1 Air user, if I had to go back and do it again, I'd choose the M2 Air at $1099 - even with the M1 Air being $850.
@6:30 - can you add 6x PCIe-4x-M.2-NVMe cards, with each having 4x-4TB or 4x-8TB, then RAID them to get better/larger storage?
6 x 4 = 24 NVMe SSD
24 x 4TB = 96TB
24 x 8TB = 192TB
Somebody needs to do an IndieGoGo project to craft a miniature MacPro-chassis-look-alike that allows you to just slide in your Mac Studio. I would buy one :)
For the price, they should have bumped up the stock memory to 128 to differentiate it from the Studio.
And the storage. 😮
Was hoping for WiFi 6E on the 15” but no😢
Yeah, it’s embarrassing at this point.
Apple says: no WiFi 6E for you! Maybe in 2024 or 2025, you can buy a new Mac with fast Wi-Fi? omg how customers are disrespected.
I went ahead and got one anyway. Better luck next year. Have that Comcast XB7 with no one ever connecting to the 6Ghz band.
I mean XB8
Is this the first time since the iBook G3/G4 that there has been a larger consumer-grade Mac laptop? In those days, they was a 12” model and a 14”, with the same screen res, I think. It’s about time. Many of us din’t need that much raw power but bigger screens for text, streaming and still photography is welcome.
I like the new Pro but too expensive to upgrade from my Studio Ultra.
The new pro isn’t an upgrade from an M1 Ultra
The OG cheese graters had four drive bays and four PCIe slots. It would be nothing for Apple to add four NVMe slots to these things.
Unless if I don’t know something about the PCIe expansion, I can imagine the Mac Pro being a good candidate for the ultimate ARM gaming PC…that is…if you find something even intensive enough to game on a mac…
"ARM gaming PC" oof no thanks (at least for now and foreseeable future), I love Macs but I would never game on them haha, I tried it on my MBP 14 and it's just not fun. It's not like Mac Pro's meant for playing games in the first place, I would rather spend the extra $3000 you'd need to spend for the Mac Pro over the Mac Studio for the same config on a dedicated gaming desktop.
How would PCIe slots that don't support GPUs help for gaming?
DirectX is coming to macOS
@@midguetsito1 LOL you're trying to be funny, right?
@@midguetsito1 a game studio would have better business success targeting the steamdeck market than the mac market.
Mac Pro should have been a PC with powerful discrete CPU and GPU.
They could make a high-end discrete MPX module maybe with 200-ish apple silicon graphics cores, that would be insane.
At the end of the day I think this is a premature release for the Apple.
It’s worth it to the narrow slice of pro users who need all the slots. And for those customers, $3K premium is a drop in the bucket vs the total cost of the workstations they build.
I think it makes perfect sense for its states purpose.
PCIE slots mean nothing without drivers to run them. How many pcie peripherals come with mac silicon drivers?
I think Luke is being really nearsighted. Every one of those slots could house an entire cpu/gpu/ram/storage set. All "networked" a pcie gen 4(?) or gen 5 speeds. Another pcie card for m.2 storage. The sata connectors seem almost like a diversion.
@@bradscott3165 Yeah, no reason for the Mac Pro to exist. Apple finally gave Pro users that kept Apple alive in the tough 1990s the middle finger.
@@cameronbosch1213 I don't think you got what I was saying. With the right cards from Apple, this thing could become a massively parallel computing platform of pretty high regard. Imagine something like 192 CPU cores and 700 GPU cores, all sharing bandwidth over high speed pcie.
Guess I’ll be holding on to my 2010 Mac Pro. It still works perfect and I’ve got a complete set of spare guts.
The 15 inch MacBook Air looks great. I'm curious to see how the speakers compare to the 16 inch Pro though... Thanks for the great coverage!
With one year old M2? To be replaced by M3 in october? That will piss off a lot of people.
Now, I'm happy with M1 Air with ONE exception - display controllers are just two, with 6k maximum. That means I can't upgrade to high res ultrawide from current ultrawide.
And I really don't need nor want a MBP just for that. It's bulky, it's heavy, it's expensive. For web development I absolutely won't utilize multicore nor a GPU.
If M3 doesn't come with more display controllers or 8k per one controller I will stay with M1. No reason to upgrade for years. I'm fine with that. Not sure if Apple would be fine with low sales of new models…
So if Avid or ProTools can make drivers for cards that work with Apple Silicon, what's stopping AMD or Nvidia from making drivers? I understand that in the past Apple has developed their own versions of the drivers, but why couldn't the chip makers just publish something?
Woah, I'm a little early this time!
I was over the moon to see a Mac Pro with AS and PCIe slots, but honestly? I don't know if the gap in performance will be large enough between the Pro and Studio to make people buy the Mac Pro
There is no gap. They are identical
The Mac Pro is not for 99% of their users. Hell the Mac Studio isn’t for 99% of their users.
But yes, they’re identical machines with MAYBE the Mac Pro itching forward but not by a mile.
It’s possible that the justification for the cost is mostly related to the performance equivalent of 7 $2000 afterburner cards supposedly being built into the system that you didn’t mention. Just an inkling.
Good video! I agree with your assessment on the Mac Pro. Very disappointed that more items weren't modular or available to spec higher. Additionally, we were all hoping that PCIe graphics cards would be compatible. They are not. I was eager to buy this, but I will likely pass. Such a bummer...
Luke didn't they say in the presentation Mac Pro had the equivalent of six afterburner cards in it as well as the M2 Ultra SOC? I do not believe the Mac Studio has the afterburners included. Could that be another reason the price/performance is higher on the Mac Pro versus the Mac Studio?
Well, for some, those PCIe expansion slots are extremely valuable, i'm particularly thinking about the pro audio scene. I/O, FX and other interface cards are infinte. I didn't quite get the Studio to be honest, with only thunderbolt expansion. There are USB/thunderbolt interfaces, but those I'd consider unreliable at best. The Mac was always a robust and reliable tool in pro audio, some still run their cheesegrater mac pros in studios because of that (and the previous mac pro being overly expensive and the one before being a trash can without expansion). This could end up being a pretty good bang for the buck especially in terms of CPU performance and the number of PCIe lanes also look pretty decent on those slots.
the pro audio scene moved to USB/Firewire/Thunderbolt ages ago, there are no pro audio interface brands making PCI cards anymore, and if anyone is still doing it, it has an USB/Thunderbolt counterpart. The only real advantage for those PCI slots is GPUs or fiber cards.
@@diegomax Good luck getting an AVID HDX on thunderbolt ;) I'm talking pro audio, not the "I'm recording my guitar at home" type pro audio.
@@diegomax usb has so many latency problems compared to PCI. Still the driver matters but PCI is not USB on latencies.
Is there any advantage in using internal pci card vs. in external tb-box?
@@diegomax Don’t forget audio over Ethernet: Dante, MH Link, RedNet, etc. That and thunderbolt make PCIe slots pretty irrelevant for professional audio.
I want one of the new Mac Pros! I'd just get the 1TB storage option and utilize the SATA for cheaper expansion. I also just LOVE the way the machines look.
This is a DESKTOP PC, with non removable processor and non upgradeable memory... I don't think so, Tim.
As long as those PCI expansion ports support powerful video cards, and maybe even discrete Apple compute modules, I’m happy. If all it has is places to add extra “internal dongles” so to speak, I’ll be mad.
I also hope the M2 Ultra is FULLY UNLOCKED with no compromises in this thing, since it does support 300 W of power unlike any other Apple silicon device.
Mac Pro is made for like 300 people to use, no normal person would spend this much just to get the expansion.
Mac Studio is the more mainstream pro marketing computer
More like 3 in 5 million users.
The Mac Pro fills a very specific use case: those who need more storage and PCI-E slots. It's a placeholder until Apple gets a beefier chip in it. The other computer announcements were welcome, though I'm still not sold on VR. It seems like VR has been the next big thing for decades now.
It exists because it has 8 Thunderbolt ports, seven PCIe Gen 4 slots, two 10GB Ethernet ports, three USB-A, two HDMI, etc. - expandability. They specifically say it’s those who “rely on internal expansion for their workflows”. If you don’t need these, it’s not for you.
The only expandability I would want would be to add a GTX4090 for 3D graphics as Im betting the M2 Ultra still wont compare.
I dont think a GPU can be added to the PCIs
I don't know if someone has said yet, but the 3000 extra bucks could be for the Afterburner, that they said was integrated.
The Mac Pro will be worth it for pros that need that expansion. Sound engineers for one will absolutely need it.
If you don’t need the expansion then the studio is for you. But those that need the expansion, really really need it
It's not just expansion. You can run NVME slabs at full speed which is a HUGE advantage. I can get rid of four external PCI-e enclosures and have everything in one box. Yippee!
@@alexiskobalt7450 Couldnt agree more. I switched from my 28 Core Mac Pro to a Studio 9 months ago and regretted having external storage. The fan noise in my room become horrible for studio recordings. I literally waste 20 minutes everyday turning storage on and off to avoid noise. Cant wait to throw my hard drives back into the Pro. So glad I kept them!!!
@@iMagineAS Yeah, I hear you on that. Three of my four TB3 enclosures are just NVME slabs and with two 5K displays, that's pretty much all she wrote for all the TB ports! I have just one spinning drive connected for back-up purposes and, being enterprise grade, drives me nuts with the clicks and hums. Louder than the bloody fan. Doubt I will hear it inside the new Pro. But I am assuming that those are three SATA drive drawers on the left hand side of the box?
@@alexiskobalt7450 I did keep my Pegasus expansion just in case. Looks like it still fits at the top. It will be interesting to see what we can fit. Funny people don’t realize how much quiet storage matters. No more external NAS machines for days to day work. So happy!
@@iMagineAS Exactly! Every REAL pro in the audio/video sector is screaming with joy at the new Pro. Clueless RUclipsrs who hunt for dealz at the Dollar Store, not so much. And when Apple releases the M3 version next year, we'll buy that one, too, having made use of the M2 version for a solid, productive year.
If you work in pro audio or pro video, you *need* PCIe slots for various interfaces.
Beyond that, I am quite disappointed in the available options. It's Apple trying to dictate to professionals what they need.
From an audio perspective, a top-of-the-line audio interface like the Babyface Pro FS runs off USB 2.0. The only interface I can think of that requires PCIe is the Avid HDX, and who really needs bolt-on DSP with a modern CPU like the M2?
@@goldbugclassic You're thinking like a home musician.
Think more along the lines of an actual studio: you have 200+ channels and need them all at ultra-low latency. You're probably using MADI to route the signals, and need way more DSP power than the M2 alone can deliver.
Less than 1% of Mac users are doing professional audio or video work. So this latest M2 Ultra Mac Pro is a non-issue for almost everyone.
@@DerekDavis213 The Mac Pro has never been aimed at consumers.
@@davidg5898 What about Mac Studio? That one is also not aimed at consumers?
Many many people prefer desktop computers, so that leaves just the weak Mac Mini, or even weaker iMac.
Would be interesting to see how the CPU / Ram is installed on the motherboard - if its soldered or modular, if not perhaps the next version could have a modular computing unit to upgrade GPU / Ram
Apple Silicon is SOC. It is always with RAM on board with a processor. That's what Unified memory is all about.
@@ZhuJo99 is it on a different chip in a single package, or is it one massive chip? I’m sure many large “SOCs” are in fact multiple chips in one package, and it’s done for yield reasons. I can’t see how they’d keep the yields high if it’s just one chip, but I’m not an expert.
On the Mac PRO, Considering that a Thunderbolt to 3xPCIe external can retail for $1,000.00 each: 6xPCIe integrated and what looked to me like SATA ports and extra thunderbolt for a 3k bump may not be out of the question if one has the use for those peripherals. If expansion is not needed, the Studio is a right fit - IMHO.
The new Mac Pro feels like the HomePod gen 2 - an afterthought. I was expecting to see a BEAST with 4 x M2 Ultra chips packed in there (or maybe 2, common!!) but it's basically a Mac Studio with PCI slots. Why did they make this thing?
I was thinking the same until they pointed out in the keynote that if you fill those PCI-E slots up with input cards, the Mac Pro can handle 24 streams of 4K video and encode them in realtime. For live TV production (eg sports) this will be a major selling point. The Mac Pro is really just for a few specific use cases, for everything else the Mac Studio will work
OK and a lot of sports networks already have what they need for that.
@@evacody1249 yes but how many computers do they need with them for that equivalence of power?
@@evacody1249 and they can likely easily upgrade their set ups for further in the future than with apple products.
@projiuk dude, they are not going to just change their set ups like that.
@@evacody1249 I never said they would just change their setups like that. I merely pointed out that the expansion in the Mac Pro coupled with the capability of the new chips lends itself nicely to live tv production
Problem with the PCIe slots is that the whole system really only has 32 PCIe lanes. 8 go to the SSD, 8 are split between SATA, internal USB, and the I/O card and PCIe slot 6. The remaining 16 lanes are split between the remaining 5 PCIe slots. Slot 1 and Slot 2 are both wired to be x16 slots, but they are on a switch so can't both receive that much bandwidth simultaneously. The M2 Ultra doesn't have enough PCIe lanes for it.
This new Mac Pro reactions are so funny to watch. This is a great machine and gives this Mac Pro another 10 years.
Internal storage is upgradable, did you even read the Apple website?
I feel pretty happy with the new desktops that are out. The cheese grater is a bit expensive but I like it, would've been nice to get the 384gb memory option but 192gb should be plenty enough for multi tasking. I think the M2 Max 30c GPU Studio 1tb is the sweet spot though.
My 16" MBP fully maxxed out IS my Mac Pro! It's amazing what I can do with this machine on the go!
And with the new Corsair TB4 dock, it drives my 5K monitor and connects me to my 10Gbps LAN too.
I don't need wheels and the speakers sound great! I've had people walk in my office thinking I had speakers on my desk!
As far as going the other way, I would love to see them come out with a Macbook Mini with a 13" thin bezel miniLED promotion display, M2, etc. Think 12" Macbook size! Something like that with 16GB RAM and 512GB storage would be perfect for lightweight travel. Even put a 5G modem with esim in it as an option like iPads.
The new Mac Pro was a necessary stop gap that the circumstances forced Apple to do. Attempts to make a quad M1 version failed initially due to poor scalability and yield/costs. One of the main reasons for the delay among other challenges (chip shortage crisis). Apple had their backs against the wall: Intel introduced recently newer versions of Xeons replacing the last generation Xeons used in the 2019 Intel MP. Apple had to order the new chips if they wanted to keep the MP in the lineup, something they did not want to do, stay in business with them. Updating the 2019 MP model to a 2023 "speed bumped" with new Intel Xeons was a worst scenario as no one in their sane minds would buy it today, especially with the anticipation for a rumored AS version in the works. With the M3 still far away of mass production status, the press pressuring with the embarrassingly failed transition deadline, and pro customers waiting impatiently for the AS MP (tanking the 2019 Intel sales), Apple had no choice but to rush this "Studio-in-a-MP-case-stop-gap" machine with little to no effort put into it, while the REAL M3 AS Mac Pro is delayed to 2024. This is just an educated guess putting together a chain of facts and events that might led Apple to choose the lesser of two (evils?) embarrassing scenarios.
If you have an older Mac Pro and want to keep the aesthetic with the Pro Display XDR, then sure.
Also, it remains a beautiful design. So if you have the money, why not?
Sure, a few need the expansion, so they are covered.
But for anyone else, the Mac Studio is the "buy."
I'm good with this. We have been spoiled with the performance from the past few years.
I ask myself that too to me the mac studio is basically the new mac pro
The new Mac Studio has zero expansion slots, zero chance for GPU upgrade, and no user-installed memory upgrades either. A very different machine than Mac Pro.
@@DerekDavis213 sure but the Mac Studio is still powerful and runs a ultra chip with the same chip options as in the mac pro the only difference is expansion and upgradability
@@allstarkidXD The Mac Pro will accept some *monster* video cards, while the Mac Studio only has the very weak gpu that is built into the M1 or M2 Ultra.
And the Mac Studio will not accept external gpu boxes over Thunderbolt, like the Intel-based Macs will. A big loss for Mac customers.
It seems like any way you slice it, paying more than $5000 USD for Mac Studio is a very bad idea.
@@DerekDavis213 yeah but the Mac Pro is a disappointment cause it has a lot of empty space inside the case the Mac Studio is still powerful i know many video makers that use it m2 and m1 are very great chips unlike the intel days where you had to get the most expensive mac pro thats changed with apples m chips
@@allstarkidXD Agreed that M1 or M2 are very good for *one* *thing* : video editing.
But for everything else, Windows is the price vs performance leader. M1 or M2 are pretty much a joke in Blender or Maya, where NVidia RTX 4080 or 4090 totally rule.
Also, gaming is very very popular these days, and Mac with M1 or M2 is just terrible for gaming.
It is no surprise that Windows dominates worldwide, with *90* *percent* *marketshare* .
My main machine for the past 10 years was a 2012 Intel MacPro. Loved everything about it. Except when Apple stopped supporting it. Waited a bit for a new MacPro but eventually decided on a M1 Studio with 64GB of RAM. It's great and I see no need for this new MacPro. Do I miss the customization of the Pro? Yes, but the Studio has been a really nice computer. Great video!
Same here. Still using my box from 2014. Only, its a PC workstation I built, is still fully upgradeable, fully supported tech. its fast enough for anything I do, including 3d, which is mostly offloaded to the gpu today anyway. Oh, and being a PC, I can choose from any gpu i want. I could also overclock it, but just never felt the need (that may change).
Personally I like this angle of Luke looking down at the computer at a desk instead of straight to camera, feels more relaxed imo. Great recap as always!
On a sceptical note, I suspect Apple is taking advantage with the MacPro that there are businesses and self-employed people who already have existing professional PCIe cards they need and whose new purchase (in the form of an external solution) is well over $3000.
Optimistically: The transition away from external manufacturers, such as Intel, is complete and with the new MacPro Apple is giving its customers, who are still dependent on PCIe cards, a little more time to adapt to the change.
With the high surcharge, Apple is probably also compensating for the higher costs due to the lower number of units they will produce and sell, since most customers will choose the MacStudio.
paying 3000 bucks more for the same config, just to have loads of PCIe and ThunderBolt ports, which some people need, just not for most.
Mac pros been used in music and post production mostly where all those slots are packed by ad/da and video cards.
@@一本のうんち They'll be better of with a Windows desktop then.
@@cameronbosch1213 people in those environments wouldn't touch windows with a tenfoot pole. They've been shitting on windows for over 20 years.
@@一本のうんち And that's true, but macOS isn't what it used to be. If they really need power, then Linux, specifically RHEL, would be the best option, as DaVinci Resolve still works, as does Blender and CUDA, the latter which still does not have any macOS equivalent.
Apple literally ejected every good thing about the Mac Pro with this model, and I think it's going to flop worse than every other Apple Silicon Mac so far.
I feel like the inclusion of additional PCIe slots does not justify the additional $3k cost, regardless of the target user. Sure, it will be nice having additional peripherals, but as far as storage goes, read/write speed on Thunderbolt 4 is already really solid. Even if I had the money, I don’t think I could ever justify the price.
360p gang?
yeah looks terrible.
@@paulknight5018 RUclips can take a while to process up to the desired resolution after uploading.
240p
The 15” MacBook Air is going to be very popular for businesses and universities who buy computers in bulk. On the university campus where I work, 90% of users are extremely well served by the hardware in the MacBook Air so offering a larger screen for faculty, staff, and students makes a ton of sense and will make this a very popular computer for those users.
What a shame the ram situation.
Thanks for your time and the investment !
I love 360p
Additionally Luke, could you do a video comparing two 14 inch M2 Max MacBook Pros: the binned 30 core GPU vs the full 38 core GPU variant? I’d like to know how much extra performance you get with 8 more GPU cores, and whether or not fewer GPU cores helps battery life or throttling.
At least now we can add AVID DSP pcie cards directly.. so good for musicians🎉
Look, you mentioned it your self PCIe NVME card. If that card is RAID, you get insane speeds on storage that will be used by OS for memory swaps. Plus now with M series, there is a path forwards to more frequent updates/upgrades.
M1 Pro is incredible! It plays back and edits 12K files from URSA Mini Pro WITH chrome opened AND RUclips video playing. Again, no FX! However, basic VFX such as background delete + color grading in 12K takes HOURS to apply and render, which makes sense as it seems to be either the machine's or optimization limit. A 10 second VFX clip in 12K took 6 hours to make (application and render). I've upgraded my laptop to M1 Pro 16gb because I was shooting in 4K RAW and now that I also use an 8K/12K capable camera the M1 Pro, it is only really struggling with effects applied in Davinci Resolve, in 4K with masks and fusion it takes some time to buffer but it's very fast and workable, and I'm using an external SSD to cache and proxy everything because otherwise it will fill the internal SSD in a matter of minutes. In the studio I've worked at previously we had a 5000$ + i9 with I think 64gb of RAM and it hiccuped with effects as well and performed worse than the M1 and that was in 4K. So I'm kind of unsure if spending a couple grand will increase my performance all that much. I always aim to get the most out of my gear but this might take some time and optimization. So yea, if you're not doing effects M1 Pro 16 can handle insane resolutions. With effects though - not so much )
Use case for expansion cards is AVID ProTools HDX cards, and other processing cards for pro use. Longtime users probably wont use it until it's been proven to be bug-free and rock solid.
Sadly we’re still dealing with ssd issue at the base model but given that you can get the 14” MBPro on sale for $1600 I don’t think it’s worth upgrading the 15” ssd for $1500… can’t believe the low price on this! AMAZING
Eh the Pros kinda suck outside of performance