Pastor Reacts to Joe Schimmel | "Threats Within the Church"
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- Joe Schimmel claims that eternal security is a threat within the church, and that salvation is not forever secure in the believer. Is this true, or does this fly in the face of clear scripture? This is not the degrade the man, but we desire to point out the flaw in his teaching
@goodfightministries
original video: • Threats Within The Church
HOW TO HAVE ETERNAL LIFE : • Can I Know I'll Go to ...
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I’m glad you went over this Pastor Jessie the most dangerous teachers are the ones exposing false teachers but they believe in works themselves. Because it leads people out of one falsehood into another . I noticed his ministry does a lot of exposing and it definitely looks biblical until he teaches on salvation.
Great comment. Just another Calvinist Lordshipper.
@@Rundu1987 yup unfortunately he is. I pray he repents .
@@Rundu1987he isn’t Calvinist. He is just a pastor who doesn’t understand how to rightly divide the word of truth. So he teaches you can lose your salvation and he believes in the post tribulation “rapture”. He is a lordshiper though. He is very dangerous because he will talk like salvation is a free gift, but yet at the same time, teach works. They also have some charismatic teachings in their doctrine. All they care about is what early church fathers say, yet they will crap all over Catholics. He is sincere in his teachings, but he is very off. I was very happy to see this video.
@@HowAboutThat224 yes he is so dangerous . I watch out for the ones who say we are saved by grace But … when I hear the word but i immediately unfollow . However I just pretty much stick with certain teachers if they don’t teach eternal security I stay far from it because just lending an ear can cause a spiral of doubt and I’d rather stand firm in truth than expose myself to something that will cause harm .
@@AmandainChrist88 I understand. I use to struggle with doubts, but no longer do. Roman chapters 1-8, Galatians, Ephesians and Colossians (all KJV versions) were my refuge. I read them over and over and my doubts went away. Now I can listen to anyone and not get worried. I may get mad though. lol.
I listened to him for years and have a few documentarys from him. Even went to some mens retreats they had but it was discouraging because the teaching was salvation is of Christ but then our works keep us saved unless fall and end up unsaved. No one was sure of salvation and thought it was bad if you were. Praying people look to scripture not to men!
I'm saved because God gave His only begotten Son as full and final payment for my sins.
Amen. Thank You Lord Jesus.
I have eternal security because the atonement provided freely by our Lord Jesus Christ to me. Thanks Pastor Jesse.
You should have listened to Jesus tell you about your righteousness.
@jeffouellette9946 our righteousness is as filthy rags.
We have been imputed with Jesus' righteousness. We have been covered by His Robe of Righteousness. God has performed the Biggest Miracle of All Time Eternal Life through faith in His Son's sacrifice for us. Believe on The Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Thank God we ARE Saved. Praise Jesus.
@@jeffouellette9946 I was born with zero righteousness, I received imputed righteousness by grace alone through faith in Christ alone. Hope you got it too. My salvation depends on that. God bless.
@@TheBlubunni AMEN!
My favourite part of Jesse's response - "keep reading, keep reading..."
They just can't believe how the gospel is really good news, and that Jesus is God in the flesh who they refuse to believe. 1 John 5:10-11.
God knows if these people really believe what they are saying, or if they are happily detering seekers from coming to full belief in Christ, and re-enslaving believers to the law. I can't see in men's minds and hearts, but I can read scripture. "I am afraid, however, that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may be led astray from your simple and pure devotion to Christ.For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him." - 2 Cor 11:3-4.
The worst thing a man can do is become a “theologian” or “pastor” without first believing on the Lord Jesus Christ for what he offers freely, which is eternal life!
❤🙏 hey brother Trent . Love the video that pastor jesse made.
I went somewhere the other day met some " repent or perish" folks holding up signs telling people they were " going to hell" if they don't change and repent .
I wanted to rightly divide The Word of Truth with them but they were of a harsh crowd but one did believe The Gospel of Jesus Christ.
praying for them .
GOD bless you guys and your ministry ❤️🙏
Pastor Shimmel clearly has a heart for ministry, it's just that he is unclear about God's free GIFT of salvation. One cannot pay God back for something He has given us. Our obedience to God is a response of gratitude for God giving us everlasting life, not to pay back God for it. Salvation is by grace - not works. There is nothing we can do to earn salvation.
We just attended a church here for about 3 or so years, only to attend a membership meeting where their true roots and beliefs came out and that is that Jesus gets you salvation, and you you you must keep it by your own efforts! We left.
Good move! May our Heavenly Father lead and guide you to a sound Biblical church. In Jesus Mighty and Holy Name.
Some of my favorites
“Names are given to describe the nature of someone. When we do something in His name we are doing it in His nature. Only God can change our name/nature. He gives us a new name/nature in Jesus Christ.”
There is no effort in doing what is in our nature. It didn’t take effort to be like Adam before. It doesn’t take effort to be Like Christ now. When we humble ourselves. When our nature is lifted up the Law is abolished and the cursed nature is overcome.
“Walking in covenant is really simply being like God instead of being like the devil.”
Selfishness(man sins to secure good for himself) -> the gospel/faith seeks eradicate selfishness and draw out his heart into pure benevolence.
Love every stands with open hands and as he lives he gives……in Adam we were made a living soul. In Christ we are made a life giving spirit.
OSAS is true because Jesus paid for our sins once and for all and we’re forgiven by his shed blood and we only need to believe it and receive that free gift that we can never earn with our own righteousness God imputes his righteousness on our account we are justified by faith alone in what Jesus Christ did on the cross.
Amen. Praise Jesus.
PRAISE JESUS FOR SAVING US.
THANK YOU LORD. 🙌🏼🩵✝️
It is so sad that he is leading people away from Christ. I pray he changes his mind. Thank you, Jesse, clear, concise and spot on. People, read your Bible!
He equates Biblical Christianity with universalism, knowing this is false. He knows the passages. John 3:16, Acts 16:31, Titus 3:5, John 10:28-29. He is leading people to hell. May he be rebuked.
How could Joe Schimmel be leading people to hell if he is leading people to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, to believe that he lived, died, and was resurrected for our salvation, yet you and this “pastor” say those people will be going to hell? That is contradicting the false doctrine you believe; “once saved always saved” how are they no longer saved? This is a dangerous lie you’re being sold, Revelations 3 15-16 sums up the path you are on.
@@highwired7781he is not leading anyone to believe the Gospel contained at 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 because he believes in conditional security and thus rejects Christ’s explicit promise of eternal life in John 3:16. He believes that Christ’s blood was not the final atonement, and that Christ needs to partner with him and his human effort to get him saved. Therefore, he is a heretic and leading people to hell.
@@GiftofGod289 So you’re saying those people CAN lose their salvation… again this false doctrine and heresy makes no sense. How does God spit the lukewarm Christians out of his mouth if they were never saved to begin with. OSAS = heresy.
@@highwired7781 no, I am saying they never believed the Gospel by faith alone, thus they were never saved, and thus could not lose something they never had.
If you could lose salvation, you would have already lost it. You sin every day in thought, word, or deed, and will until you die. God, the Creator of more galaxies than grains of sand on every beach on Earth, does not need your filthy works rags. He does not need your help. All he wants is your belief in his son’s finished redemptive work. Repent (change your mind) and believe the Gospel today to be saved, sealed and secure forever.
@@GiftofGod289 Joe Schimmel urges people to do exactly that though, repent and believe the gospel to be saved. Wouldn’t that mean that his following would then be given the free gift of eternal salvation EVEN if they believe that they need to continue to abstain from sin (obviously as much as possible as I know it is impossible not to) and repent again when they do sin?
I’m really glad you were there to interpret because I cannot understand a thing this guy is saying I’ve listened to 3/4 of this and it’s driving me crazy I’m gonna go onto something else. I could never be a member of this guy’s congregation. There’s just no way.
"He gave His life to free us from every kind of sin, to cleanse us, and to make us His very own people, totally committed to doing good deeds." Titus 2:14. No, good deeds are not what get's us saved, but if you're not already, let Him make you totally committed to doing these good deeds He planned for us since before the beginning of time.
Those are service issues.
@@colonalklink14 you not allowed to talk about the service after it’s done or???
@@absorbarts656 You can talk about it all you want.
@@absorbarts656 You can talk about it all you want.
@@absorbarts656 pray for hogans. He likes to curse people online. Unstable man. Like many today. Demonic doctrines come with a demon.
Some of my favorites
“Names are given to describe the nature of someone. When we do something in His name we are doing it in His nature. Only God can change our name/nature. He gives us a new name/nature in Jesus Christ.”
There is no effort in doing what is in our nature. It didn’t take effort to be like Adam before. It doesn’t take effort to be Like Christ now. When we humble ourselves. When our nature is lifted up the Law is abolished and the cursed nature is overcome.
“Walking in covenant is really simply being like God instead of being like the devil.”
Selfishness(man sins to secure good for himself) -> the gospel/faith seeks eradicate selfishness and draw out his heart into pure benevolence.
Love every stands with open hands and as he lives he gives……in Adam we were made a living soul. In Christ we are made a life giving spirit.
He sounds like someone who does this for money and probably don’t even believe that the holy Bible is the true words of Christ Jesus.
I agree with Pastor Jesse because he agrees with Scripture I wish people would read the Gospel of John prayerfully ask God to show you the truth
Schimmel does not understand rebirth.
Wow! I've double downed on OSAS within the last year. I'm amazed how many respected ministers are opposed by OSAS if not offended.
@@Rileyed Doctrine is the word of God, Christians love the word because it’s Christs word, in the beginning was the word… and the comment you made about the garden lie is complete word salad and so mixed up and makes no sense, you keep replying to peoples comments with no scriptural basis, I think you should listen and stop making stuff up with your own interpretations, I suggest you use the Matthew Henry commentary while you read the Bible we can glean of so many great teachers from of old maybe find some good Spurgeon or A W Tozer.
but they conquer him "by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they loved not their lives even unto death"
We overcome by the blood of the lamb !
Eternal life is eternal you are either seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus or you not Ephesians 2:6
John 6:39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
All you seem to do is want to sow doubt in Christs work on our behalf, basically saying what he did was not enough spitting in his face.
@@outsider427 just take one scripture.
“Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.”
How do you explain this one?
Just one scripture. Let us deal with that one. I am open minded. I just can’t get past this one. I didn’t write it. John did.
My take is that folks are taking being born again as the end of salvation. When it’s the beginning and many get born again but fail to continue on in life. One could say it was a fake born again experience. But I’ve seen it happen to many folks. Go from full of love to full of bitterness and hatred. I hope everyone is in heaven. But we know that’s not reality. And it’s hard to deal with. Maybe why the Lord says don’t think on it. Let it go. Trust God
@@outsider427 The gospel: freedom from the works of the law. Watchman Nee
The law requires man to work for God.
“If we work for God sin shall rule over us. The wages of our works is having sin rule over us. The wages of sin is death. The law condemns our works. But if God works for us. Sin shall not have dominion over us. Under law we work. Under grace God works. Whatever requires effort on our part is not victory. Victory comes freely to us.”
Do not try, but yield/die. Do not strain but rest.
Do not fancy to think you can change yourself to make you a little better. Even after 50 years you will still be the same. Victory/salvation/sanctification/glorification is Christ living in and for us.
“Thank God I cannot; but Christ can”.
Do not be afraid of men’s worst temper or greatest pride. Only be fearful that men do not see Christ’s ability. As well as their own inability.
It is good to thank God for the victory but also our weakness. For the power of Christ is made perfect in our weakness.
“I thank God that _____is most corrupt. I thanks him once again that Christ manifests his power in me. I confess I have neither goodness,or holiness, or righteousness or patience. But I thank and praise you that I have not and will not. Hereafter Oh God I commit my all to you. From now on it is your son who overcomes for me.”
We must cease all efforts to please God or overcome ourselves. The 2 conditions for victory.
1)yielding/repenting: Negative side. We cease from the flesh and self efforts. “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”
2)believing: positive side. I believe He lives in me and for me. And I believe he loves me and gave himself for me. And gives himself to me. Believe in Gods facts.
Gods facts………
1)the covenant:the exchange. Our ashes for his beauty. The oil of joy for mourning. The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness.
2)accomplished fact: what God has already accomplished in us and for us at the cross. Do we Let Him feel, manage, and control and respond for us? If he is in us can he not tell us when we are wrong? Can he not guide us?
3)promise: what he will do for us in the future. If he has done for us and in us. Will he not do for us again?
@@outsider427 I’ll leave you alone and with this…….by far the most repeated command in the Bible…….praise the Lord. Always praise the Lord. A man’s desire is his kindness. And all that is from Him is pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
Phillipians 3 is the best I think to avoid getting into works or thinking we are perfect in the sense many fall into.
As far as OSAS I guess that argument will go until the end. I’ve read and heard both sides and heard excellent pastors be on both sides. But they all teach it differently.
To make covenant we believe and love. That’s how we abide in Christ. And if we are in Christ we cannot lose anything. The quote you used said IN Christ.
He wouldn’t command us to abide in his love if it’s not possible that we don’t abide in Him. We choose to abide. While a Christian is actively sinning/acting like Satan they are abiding in Satan. This is the mystery of iniquity. The mystery of godliness is abiding in Christ producing love.
And yes many folks are in and out. Maybe all of us when we are kids or young men fall in and out. Spend time with Christian’s. They don’t always abide. Immature ones defiantly don’t. Name calling and putting people down cursing others and many activities and fruits don’t come out of us when we abide in Christ. Just bc he abides through our darkness and rebellion doesn’t mean we are abiding in Him when we rebel.
I wouldn’t Risk ever not forgiving or not loving others. Even if we are “saved” it still grieves God and we can incur loss and suffering.
He clearly said we are to abide. Like I said before the command is to “keep yourself in the love of God.” Now you don’t have to do that. Can call that works. But in my experience when I focus on his mercy and love I also walk in mercy and love and the peace of God rules in my heart. And I have people come up to me and ask about my joy.
His joy is our strength and his patience and humility is our salvation. But he clearly commands us all throughout the Bible to always give mercy and be honest with self; to God and to man. Unforgiveness and discontent/bitterness is the gateway to all athiesm and Apostacy.
I wish I could help everyone see. But I cannot. Only in person can I help folks. Online seems to be nothing but fighting which God hates. It’s from pride/the flesh.
Maybe see you in the kingdom one day. Hope so. I don’t know you so probably won’t even remember in that day. I hope you and your family and all friends are saved and continue in his love forever. Sorry for arguing with you.
Thanks preacher for sticking to God's Holy word and teaching Paul's Gospel to the believers ,amen propitiation ?
Last time I checked Jesus said He was going to reward every man according to His works. The idea that we can simultaneously have salvation and live however we want is utterly demonic.
Jonah 3:10 is my favorite verse for refuting "repent = turning from sin".
Yeah, same. I told someone about Jonah 3:10 how God views turning from sin as a work. He said “you gotta read it in context tho”.
I thought to myself “pride really does blind people”
@@christophe_li Had someone block me over it on reddit. 🤷♂
@@mrblackfyre2071 sad
SIN = self. Probably a good idea to turn from self and look to Jesus
Some of my favorites
“Names are given to describe the nature of someone. When we do something in His name we are doing it in His nature. Only God can change our name/nature. He gives us a new name/nature in Jesus Christ.”
There is no effort in doing what is in our nature. It didn’t take effort to be like Adam before. It doesn’t take effort to be Like Christ now. When we humble ourselves. When our nature is lifted up the Law is abolished and the cursed nature is overcome.
“Walking in covenant is really simply being like God instead of being like the devil.”
Selfishness(man sins to secure good for himself) -> the gospel/faith seeks eradicate selfishness and draw out his heart into pure benevolence.
Love every stands with open hands and as he lives he gives……in Adam we were made a living soul. In Christ we are made a life giving spirit.
Hey there, you said you would like to sit down and have a chat with Pastor Joe? Pastor Joe is totally willing to do this. I will message you privately so we can set this up. God bless and chat soon.
I just don't get these people brother Jesse. Why would they not embrace the good thing God has given us in His reconciliation of us to Him? I believe it pleases the Lord for us to REST in Jesus, KNOWING we have a new home , KNOWING NOTHING can separate us from Him in this life. These people really upset me with their rubbish .
You said "you do have expectations to walk with the Lord but those don't prove that you are saved" ?? ... So where does that verse you will know them by their fruits come in?? And where does a verse like abiding in the vine and getting cut off from the Vine?
Amen!
Thank you Jesse and Trent, Bibleline.
God bless
Thank you Pastor Jesse! But I have one question. It seemed like the last comment by Joe was referring to 1 John 3:10 and Jesse said he was referring to a different passage in 1 John. Could you touch on or explain 1 John 3:10?
Test the spirits brothers and sisters. Please read t through those chapters. You will see what the Lord is truly saying.
God knows we're weak in the flesh and that's why he is so merciful. What is so hard to understand, Joe Schimmel?
This is so hilarious. Once saved always saved is an Evangelical idea that spun out of Calvinism election theory.
Are you afraid of putting your trust in Christ alone?
@@doubledocable I have plenty of shorts uploaded that thoroughly refute such a silly question.
@@FishermensCorner Either a "yes" or "no" would be more than sufficient, but hey
There has always been a remnant of people who believed on Christ alone for salvation.
They were persecuted by the Roman Catholic Church down through the centuries and never had any part of the so called Protestant Reformation.
All five points of Calvinism are Satanic trash.
@@FishermensCornerissue with OSAS folks in my experience is they don’t produce fruit. Meaning they are rude people still. Arrogant. Not full of joy and peace. So debating them is not worth it. Nothing but wise guy remarks.
And they say…..no need for fruit. I don’t have to forgive or love. They always take it too far and that’s what deception is. False light from Satan.
Jesus said bear fruit or be thrown into the fire. But OSAS says,”I will not bear fruit and i am saved!”
OSAS is true to a point. Psalm 89 says sins will bring the rod and not loss of covenant. But there are things we can def do in our life that will ruin our life and at the least we won’t be the bride.
OSAS is the most subtle of all Satans deceptions. Can’t win with people who are willing to remove 100 Bible verses and stories.
I'm curious how someone like Joe Schimmel would deal with, "Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
I guess Joe Schimmel means the SIN, the only SIN of the NT, to tear yourself away from the New Nature to go back and do the law.
And those you mention, are not even sins regarding the New Testament, just behaviours that may confuse unbelievers and unsettled brethren.
Those are - not orderly behaviours.( apostle John calls them- sins not onto death).
I saw the documentary and in my view they quote the early “fathers” as if it is scripture.
Yes, a lot of people quote the church "fathers"
We have One Father and He is in Heaven. Praise Jesus.
That’s bc we have 100 different men interpreting it different. So people will look into the older Christian’s that lived a Holy life and what they believed.
The word says walk in love or you will die. No respect of persons. Sounds like many teach……you do not need to walk in love; and you won’t die. That’s a major error to teach we can never fall away. Considering the end times there is a great falling away. And the constant warnings to not fall away.
The fact Christian’s can’t agree and basic doctrines tells me the church is about to be judged and the foolish virgins will be left out. This is way too far. I don’t even understand what people are saying anymore.
You can fall away from “steadfastness,” “grace,” and many things that are not “eternal life.”
If your eternal life is based upon anything more than your belief in Jesus Christ for the full payment of your sins, then you will perish.
You can’t “walk in love” unless you have the Spirit because the fruit of the Spirit is “LOVE.” Therefore does the Spirit come and go when your love comes and goes?
The new birth comes and goes when your love comes and goes? Your adoption and election?
That’s a whopping 0% assurance…
- Trent
@@BibleLineif we lose grace but don’t lose eternal life, can we say that the quality of our eternal life has just changed?
And the one that has kept the grace - resurrects to eternal joy, those who lost grace- to eternal suffering?
Thank you.
@@user-kh1vo2fc6s Read 1 Corinthians 3:10-17. We can lose our rewards which would change the quality of our life in heaven, but we can fall from the grace of God in the same way you can fall out of your human parent's good graces by some bad acts, but they still love you and try to get you to see what you are doing is wrong. Once you are a child, you are always a child of either your human parents or your Father in heaven.
I don’t know who that other man is but he sounds more like a time share salesman than a preacher.
If he's not strong enough to keep me I need to try find me another saviour.
Is he strong enough to overcome our flesh and sin nature? Grace is stronger than Sin. But then the logic I hear from OSAS is even if you don’t overcome your sin or fall back into your old sins you are still under grace. But then it says grace overcomes sin.
I believe we are called to overcome. It’s by faith. But everything with God is by faith. It’s always by faith in Him and his power.
If we fall away we get the rod and that’s not fun. Part of covenant is agreeing to being disciplined when we disobey. How else can we learn? Hebrews 12. Proverbs 3. Many other places.
@@Rileyed You will never be rid of the sin nature until you die..but we still try to be holy out of gratitude and sometimes we just are weak and give into the flesh, O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
unless you fall back into your old sins and have not overcome?
@@outsider427 we are told
To walk in the spirit and we won’t do the deeds of the flesh.
@@Rileyed We sure are.
@@outsider427 so then we do have to partake. Yielding to the Spirit. He doesn’t force us. Which is the end result of many teachings. That if we obey God we are of Satan.
The word is showing us what is from God and what is from the flesh and Satan. Discernment. Which takes time. I doubt any man was born again and never sinned again in his life.
But today I read people saying to me if I do error and then repent. I am crucifying Jesus by repenting. That I shouldn’t ever repent to God after the first time.
These kind of beliefs occur bc people are not living out the life in Christ. And only analyzing it.
Easy to say I will love and forgive. Then go out in the world and God allows Satan and men to attack us and test us. Then we see how our nature is wicked. And we learn to rely more and more on Christ.
Repentance unto salvation(of the soul)
Spirit is saved. Then by the spirit we co labour with Christ to conform our soul/thoughts/mind to obey the Spirit(which is Christ in us).
I think that’s where many error. Our spirits were saved 2000 years ago in Christ. Cannot sin. But we have a soul and flesh nature still that can sin and loves to sin. That’s were regeneration is needed constantly. Renewing of the mind/soul.
Maybe it sounds too complicated for people. But it’s not. It’s simple. And obvious that our mind and thoughts can still go away from Christ quite easily.
2Cor. 13:5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?-unless indeed you are disqualified.
Observing the fruit (CHRISTIAN works) in your life is NOT adding to salvation. We are commanded to test ourselves. And how can one be warned about being disqualified if in fact (as OSAS says) it can't happen? What BOTH sides on this issue need to do is step back and stop waving their doctrinal flags. I sat in Joe Schimmel's church for 28 years and left 4 years ago for reasons other than this subject. So, I have my issues with him. Regardless he is being misunderstood. He is not saying you have to do these things to EARN your salvation. He is saying these are the fruits of your life because you HAVE salvation through Christ with the power of the Holy Spirit. And if you are not showing the blood of Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit in your life then as 2 Cor. 13:5 asks, are you disqualified? Why would this be in the bible if it wasn't a concern?
To the people of Blessed Hope Chapel and the followers of Joe Schimmel I ask you for what sin would Joe have committed that would exclude him from being with the Lord if he were to die at this very moment? Overwhelmingly I'm sure you would say, None!" Thus, if you hold that true then once Joe Schimmel was saved..., he WAS always saved. Shocking. I can't imaging saying it that way doesn't disturbs some of you.
To the people of OSAS how do you account for the outwardly upstanding church member in every obvious regard who for years has cheated on his wife. Should his life end in the act of fornication and adultery how do you account for him repeatedly being in that act when he had the blood of Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit (according to OSAS) to overcome his sin? Unless - Indeed he is disqualified
What both sides need to do is put down their doctrinal flags and preach gratitude, respect and thankfulness for the price paid for their salvation. That (Christ and the price paid) should be the focus not these argumentative doctrines you each hold to. The truth is when the sinner stands before God on judgement day you will not be there advocating either point for or against their behalf and only THEY will be accountable to God for THEIR faith and how it was appropriated in their life.
These unbelievers are everywhere.
Yeah, narrow is the way as Jesus said it would be.
Some of my favorites
“Names are given to describe the nature of someone. When we do something in His name we are doing it in His nature. Only God can change our name/nature. He gives us a new name/nature in Jesus Christ.”
There is no effort in doing what is in our nature. It didn’t take effort to be like Adam before. It doesn’t take effort to be Like Christ now. When we humble ourselves. When our nature is lifted up the Law is abolished and the cursed nature is overcome.
“Walking in covenant is really simply being like God instead of being like the devil.”
Selfishness(man sins to secure good for himself) -> the gospel/faith seeks eradicate selfishness and draw out his heart into pure benevolence.
Love every stands with open hands and as he lives he gives……in Adam we were made a living soul. In Christ we are made a life giving spirit.
@@Rileyed
Effort or not, that's a service issue.
Salvation is absolutely free and not conditional upon service to God.
I serve God faithfully out of love and gratitude for the free gift of salvation 💐❤️💝.
@@colonalklink14 at least your not telling me to, “shut the hell up” today. A move in the positive.
@@Rileyed I'm all for living Godly, I just don't make that a condition of salvation.
Not up front or through the back door.
I'm new to your channel, so hello 👋
With regard to Roman's 8, I'd like to point out that "if you live to the flesh" can't mean you shall die physically, because 100% of saved and unsaved die physically. And if you live to the spirit, conversely doesn't mean you will live without death physically. It seems rather logical to read that the way Shimmel is reading it. And I only watched one of his videos today for the first time today, which led me here. Point being, that I'm agnostic to him.
I'm curious of your response to my thought regarding Roman's 8
Welcome! Thanks for commenting.
It is true that it is “appointed unto man once to die,” but that doesn’t negate the proper interpretation of Roman’s 8.
Fleshly living in the life of a believer will surely bring death. Sin always brings death in some form. The point of Roman’s 6-8 is to point out that a believer should not continue in sin in spite of the fact that he is eternally secure - amidst other things.
- Trent
@BibleLine thank you for your reply. With all due respect, it seems as though you've sidestepped. 100% of people die. What is the reasonable understanding then of the verse? It cannot be physical death because of the use of the verbs "live" versus "die". The nouns of "life" and "death" used throughout the new Testament are sometimes and often used in application to spiritual life and death, not physical in this life. And in the case of Roman's 8, I can see no other way it should be applied- simply because all people physically see death. And many godly people see early death, thus again, Roman's 8 in "living to the spirit" can not mean physical life in contrast to death in this verse.
Joe Schimmel is Arminian in his soteriology. Arminianism doesn’t believe that a Christian can have assurance of salvation. How can a Christian who is sealed to the day of redemption, by the Holy Spirit (Eph.1: 13-14) be lost later?
1 John 5:13 (NKJV) “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.”
Imagine that! The biggest threat within the Church is that salvation in Jesus is permanent? SMH No wonder people are turning away from Jesus. They are being taught they have to turn from sin to be saved.
I think what gets lost is that we shouldn't just sin because we have grace, because it does grieve the HS, but a saved person CAN sin.
@@According_To_Matt Exactly!
Yes, that is repentance: turning away, a change of mind. What foolishness to deny Christ because you love the pleasures of the flesh. We love God because he is all good. Jesus was perfect and we are supposed to follow in imaging. Of course we can’t be perfect in this world, but we are sanctified through his good works in us. How can the spirit of God dwell in a temple of evil?
“Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.”
1 John 3:8-10 ESV
bible.com/bible/59/1jn.3.10.ESV
Why did you go over 1 John 2 when the quote at 9:18 was from 1 John 3:10?
10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: [f]anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
Calvinism is such a subtle false teaching.
Calvinism and Arminianism are both subtle in their false bits. Both have true bits as well. Let God be true and every man a liar.
9:05 and there's the strawman. Nice
2 Peter 2-20-22 and Revelation 3:1-3 we don't understand these
5:20 what about “Eating His Flesh and drinking His Blood”? That those have eternal life. Is it about drinking it once or is it continuously needed. And what if we don’t follow His voice?
He says : “ My sheep hear my voice”.
Question? If you are once saved always saved, why do Paul, Jesus, and John spend so much time warning believers to check oneself to ensure you are in the faith, warning against apostasy, being cut off, etc. Paul talks about potentially suffering loss on judgement day because of disciples he once had didn’t finish their race (fell away) and thus were disqualified (aka condemned to Hell). Paul even worried about his own salvation too and not finishing his race. It’s kind of mind boggling how easy it is to disprove this message of OSAS.
God gave us eternal life, it starts the second we believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures was buried and rose again on the 3rd day according to the scriptures. Once we believe we are sealed with God's Holy Spirit of promise until the day of redemption.
We cannot lose it.
So when I mess up God takes away His gift of eternal life and then when I've been good He gives it back? Does God give and take eternal life from His children. How many times can this happen? It makes no sense.
The only thing that makes sense is God's Word and His Promises in Christ Jesus.
Some say….eternal life isn’t lost. They will just not be allowed in the kingdom. Suffer 1000 years in death and then saved in revelation 20. But then also Jesus says he will blot the names out of folks who don’t repent….so that’s concerning.
Why we all have to read the word and trust God to teach us. Bc it seems many get stuck in false teachings. Reject half the counsel of God.
@@TheBlubunniseems like you guys are basing your security on a one time experience? When eternal security is in Christ. We are told to abide/remain where God has put us. To continue on. To endure to the end of our self and our life.
I don’t condemn anyone to Hell. But I’ve lived long enough to watch many people start strong in faith and end up worst than if they never began. You guys say even though they becomes worst people. Never overcame sins….they are saved.
But isn’t the evidence that we believe that we overcome our sins? That we no longer lust after evil things? That we rest always in Gods love and grace as the way to overcome Satan and the flesh.
I don’t even know what OSAS people are trying to say. Too confusing. I don’t think you guys even know what you are saying.
Anytime I hear an acronym that is real popular in Christianity…often it’s from Satan.
Jesus said he blotted folks out of the book of life. Nobody can remove that verse. He said endure to the end and you shall be saved. Can’t delete that one either. He said before you start, count the cost. If there is no cost? What are we counting? What is he talking about when he says count the cost? Endure to the end?
I would stay in covenant if I were you. Never leave it. A very risky way to live is to leave covenant and rely on a doctrine to save you and not the person of Jesus Christ.
@@Rileyed yes our security and assurance is in what Jesus did for us at the cross. He paid for our sins, once for all time. We don't recrucify Jesus every time we mess up to forgive us again. All sin was paid for. We either believe Jesus or we don't.
I can do nothing to save myself or keep myself saved. He saved me the second I believed the gospel of our Salvation.
@@TheBlubunni “keep yourselves in the love of God”……do you do that?
The word says the most self deceived are the ones who hear and then don’t do anything God said to do. I’ll say I learned a lot just being child like and doing what God said to do. I’ll never understand the whole theory we don’t need to obey God anymore.
Too confusing to me. But if that doctrine produces the love of God in you then have at it. I am not the expert of all doctrines.
I aways though security was what he is doing in us as well. As the evidence of faith and trust is rest. And John says the evidence is love in us.
So today the evidence is no longer that we are resting in his love. Walking in peace. But it’s that we at one time believed Jesus existed and died and rose again.
That’s my issue. I prefer the old doctrines from the epistles.
I can say OSAS as far as psalm 89. But greed and bitterness I am afraid many fall into and I’ve never seen them come back.
“See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure. Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.”
1 John 3:1-10 ESV
bible.com/bible/59/1jn.3.1-10.ESV
““Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’”
Matthew 7:21-23 ESV
bible.com/bible/59/mat.7.21-23.ESV
3:02 So I had that for several minutes or 1-2 hours after salvation. When I literally had a dome of liquid fire above my had and no accusation could spill into me. .. then I backslid.
So, if I am still saved, why am I not in that state of being any longer?
If you are truly saved, nothing is a quick fix. We daily are being sanctified. It's a lifelong process. Don't seek emotional experiences, seek growth by worshipping Christ in Spirit and in Truth. As Christians, we are pilgrims on a lifelong journey of being transformed more and more into the likeness of Christ. We must repent daily, and start anew, not looking behind but ahead - His mercies are new every morning.
Question for Jessie or for Bibleline. Would you guys say you guys are rightly divided in the word? Do you agree with rightly divided? Do you guys agree that Romans through Philippians is the body of Christ the sound Doctrine? And the main focus on salvation? And that God's word is for all but not everything is pointed to or us? The body of Christ.
Also what is the gospel of our salvation?
Hey pastor Martinez would you be willing to speak with Joe Schimmel?
Maybe do a friendly debate?
I know this brother
Let me know.
God bless.
He reached out to us, but we do not desire a “debate.” We could lose all the cameras, and that would suffice us.
- Trent
@@BibleLineyeah just like how I left a comment you couldn’t refute with reason so you deleted it. It’s very sad if you did believe you are preaching the correct gospel to not love the people that watch Joes content to watch and according to you because they believe a false gospel maybe repent and trust in your gospel. Doesn’t sound very loving to me sounds cowardly but hey do your thing.
Just keep reading..just keep reading...what do we do...we read😂
There’s a few things on doctrine I don’t agree with Joe on. But if I was going to say something positive about him. They definitely expose the overwhelming quotes by the secular music stars on the celebration of darkness they all have in common. It did give me pause when that channel went pretty hard on the rapture which is the resurrection. They get too caught up (see what I did there 😏) on the use of the word rapture. 1Thessalonians 4. I’m still trying to figure out and understand all the exposing and who’s exposing who and who do we know who to listen to exposing everyone. SMH Anyway liked
What's wrong don't these people understand the word FREE free gift occurs 3 times in Roman's 5 we are told to take the water of life FREELY in Rev 22 verse 17
I had a guy explain ot to me this way. He said that we are saved by grace but after salvation we are kept saved by good works. Im other words the blood of Christ was not enough. Absolute stupidity and dangerous to teach..
Subscribed.
Your still too 'charitable' to Joe Schimmel than I am.
4:12 whenever the Old Testament spoke about death it was always about spiritual death. It is different in the New Testament?
God knows the future so why would he save someone knowing that down the line they would be lost again? These Grace plus works teachers are Roman Catholics in disguise and in fact they are more dangerous because they move within evangelical circles ."For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter IN AMONG YOU , not sparing the flock" Acts 20 v29 "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work". Romans 11v6
Fair question. The concept of “eternal” is only temporary to the minds of these men. When God called it eternal life, He meant eternal life.
- Trent
I think most of his teaching is solid but I never understood how he could believe how you could go in and out of salvation? You can either lose it or not, but to get saved multiple times makes no sense to me, he has a weird interpretation of the passage in Hebrews.
Why do I feel changed is my question I no longer get drunk watch porn or do the things I used to do
At the 45 second mark he does what all OSAS people do - misrepresent remaining faithful by calling it "earn your salvation". They regularly equate remaining faithful as earning your salvation. They remind me of calvinists. The once OSAS crowd thinks that if there is ANYTHING other than believe then it is works salvation. Well the calvinists thinks that if you do anything, even believe, then you are taking from God's glory and saving yourself. The New Testament makes it clear that a repentance is involved in salvation, humbling yourself is involved with salvation, believing is part of salvation, living a life for Christ is involved in salvation (though living for Christ doesn't take away your sins) and that baptism...yes baptism (Peter: "Repent and be baptized FOR the remission of sins.") ... is involved in salvation. Look at what Paul says: "to present you holy and blameless and above reproach in His sight, IF YOU CONTINUE IN THE FAITH (aka remain a believer), grounded and settled, and are NOT REMOVED FROM (aka remain a believer) the hope of the gospel.
The OSAS crowd, which I was part of, has a very superficial understanding of salvation. They either don't accept all of scripture, they don't harmonize the security and warning passages, or they explain away the warning verses
If you believe you can LOSE your salvation, that means you must WORK to keep it...that's works based salvation. Sorry you can't wiggle your way out of this.
Let’s define eternal security. If a person, had a Baptism of the Holy Spirit, washed, cleaned, filled with that “molten of New Nature”, when satan came and said: “go follow me and do the law” obeyed, because he knew no catechism, drew back onto perdition, and the wicked spirit latched onto him again. And the flow of Grace Greatly diminished or stopped- can we say this person is still saved- because he once was saved?( once was enlightened).
If he feels worse than before the Baptism( “took 7 more wicked….And it became for that man worse when before”)and the only that remained is the knowledge of the truth, that God is real, Christ is real. demons- exist, they are puppeteers, they creat worldly governments, and by different means gain human sacrifices- wars and so on.
So, can we say that person made it?
BUT, I am sure, that if you don’t backslide into the grip of the evil one after salvation- you are really ETERNALLY SECURE, can do externally whatever you want, it is your freedom. As long as there is no communion with wicked spirits- there is no sin.
3:00 exactly from that I backslid. I stared fight my Jistification, Insaw the Nature I got put on wasn’t able to be accused for anything. And the firs thought in me not having a proper catechism was smth like “ that makes me a criminal, an unstoppable criminal. + it is not fair” . Yeah, Inwas being stupid and ignorant. I with I was born in America, amongst real Christians.
Nobody teaches you can earn your salvation. Earning salvation is a strawman and you know it. Be better.
I want to say what I saw in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit: This world is created. Our bodies are vehicles. We are spirits that live in them. Wherever to look with your physical eyes you see a picture, a painting, you lift up your eyes and you see - the first heaven- sky.
Right above our head, above top of our head there is a second heaven, only our spirit can look into there when it is infused with the Holy Spirit.
In the second heaven,people often call- astral, there are demonic principalities literally lying on peoples heads. And they provide humans with delusions, versions of reality, scientism and so on. Above them in the astral close to the third heaven- there are angels.
Further above- the third heaven- where the eternal God is. I know God is everywhere, but from there that molten Golden New Nature pours and covers a person.
So, by faith I was saved I got infused with the Holy Spirit, washed and cleaned, heated up and washed again, when by faith, I had an urge inside, my spirits got lifted up right to the third heaven and Baptised in that molten Gold, then descending back to physical earth into my body, I saw that the track is being created from That third Heaven made of Gold, from there right into my body, and that spirit of mine descended into my heart space and had the connection to The Third Heaven, to the Most High directly. So the dark principalities were sliding to the sides even from the second Heaven of the physical place I was at, they couldn’t affect me. I literally became a Monotheist and free, and as I thought later- Christian.
So, then I backslid, by a trick of the demonic, they used my niceness, and notion, that nice request must be answered.
So, to make it shorter, years after backsliding, came to the point where I don’t have that cord of Gold connecting my heart to the third Heaven. So how am I going to be lifted up after my body dies?! How?
My whole hope was on that connection, which I believed was life connection to Christ, His New Nature. And after our death I believe we must come to the third Heaven, which is the Kingdome of Heaven.
I like their channel and listen a lot, but I disagree with their rapture beliefs!
You ain't no pastor if you going against Gods truth for the sake of a fan club of false doctrine Repent
2:58 say it was applied, what if you didn’t accept it?
I noticed there is something wrong with Joe Schimmel. He seems to be very hesitant when he speaks. That's why he ends up saying the wrong things. Avoid him. Definitely another false teacher. Excellent job pastor Jesse. God bless you Pastor Jesse. Amen 😀😊👼🙌🙏🌅☀️🌈
Anabaptist, Euchite messages are closer to reality. Unless destroying your life+ your armour of God is just losing rewards.
Listen, Jesse, if a person after being saved, after getting Baptism of the Holy Spirit, walks back on faith, acts out of fear, doesn’t want to - rather afraid to walk in freedom- he does backslide. And his garment of Light gets torn.
I myself after Salvation in 20 minutes had a satan’ counterattack, that black cloud returned and stood in front of me and I was afraid to rebuke or resist it because I applied “non- violence” to the spirit realm. And it’s N/A their. I did NoT know that. And That spirit latched onto me. So I was limping for years spiritually after that. How many people get saved in a congregation of believers?
And how many in unbelieving environment? With no catechism? Unaware that you must resist satan and you’ll be good, you only in trouble if you try to avoid the conflict?
How many people know that ?
That after full miraculous restoration you can tear injure your garment by resisting your own Justification? And that getting restored after already having been restored is quite a trick? That anointing can be spoiled or even stopped in you?
And that a person exacerbate it by keeping to try to justify himself by works contrary to faith?
I you personally got saved in A SAFE space when resisting the devil wasn’t even a thing, then I understand why you roll your eyes on such messages. But there are people who have different experiences, existence of whom you seem to refuse to recognize.
We have to put everything to the word of God all of your experiences has to go to the word of God. I had lots of attacks that led me into false teaching of rebuking evil .. those attacks the devil uses to create doubt and brings us into fake teaching . I had sleep paralysis and I had Catholic stuff in my house because my grandmom was Catholic and had her stuff. I remember one day I was praying and I said Lord what is it in my life and I seen the rosary’s hanging up by the wall I kept seeing a figure by. I said Lord it’s you on the cross how is this evil than I did research and I realized it’s a mockery . I got rid of it sleep paralysis and narcolepsy left . Evil exists but it needs a place that is why the devil creates doubt and false doctrine . Try not to focus on the attacks but get close to Christ and the word of God. There is power in fellowship and communion with the Lord . It’s not that Pastor Jessie doesn’t believe it happens he doesn’t give it focus or power he knows God is in control and when we know and understand who God is his power his love and mercy as well as grace we understand we are in the hands of Christ and we are told it will be hard but we are promised we will overcome because Jesus has already overcome the world for us . God bless
@@AmandainChrist88 beautiful reply sister. God bless you 🩷
@@TheBlubunni thank you so much God bless you as well .
@@AmandainChrist88Thanks, fellow believer from US
@@AmandainChrist88Scary thing is that I don’t feel that heart of flesh inside my chest anymore. From which I had like a cord leading to the World to Come. I was in flesh, but with my heart like wired to heaven. One foot hear, one foot there.
That cord got severed. I don’t feel that anymore. The heart of flesh melted, disappeared.
And this makes me question everything.
Where do I go from there ?
5:38 did you know that Spirit can depart?
Only in the OT if you are a believer in the NT you are sealed till the day of redemption Eph 1:13-14 meaning till you receive your glorified body at the rapture…
Yes, in the Old Testament.
They were still saved though.
Saul went to Abraham's bosom.
@@colonalklink14 yep true but i bet he lost a lot of rewards.
@@alexgarmin8457 Yes absolutely true.
@@alexgarmin8457I backslid on the point when I was already putting my new body, got deceived. And I got torn away from it. Do you mean I will have another new body after death.
I mean, that’s where my fears stem from, I had one of my feet already in the Kingdom and I withdrew. It’s been 20+ years and I am still sorry.
OSAS Christians = lukewarm
Knowing one has salvation eternally by the blood of Christ is not the cause of one’s lukewarm status.
The reason one is lukewarm is because he has chosen something over Christ in spite of his forgiveness. Sin has gotten in the way, false doctrine crept in, ignorance may play a factor, or he may no longer believe.
Our salvation was never based on how much sin, continual belief or efforts though. Sure, fixing those areas prevents lukewarm living, and that is commanded by God. Nonetheless, God doesn’t say “stop being lukewarm to be saved.” He says “believe in Me.” In another place he states “whosoever believeth on him should not perish.”
- Trent
@@BibleLineAnd is the kind of person you describe still saved?
@@BibleLineBut you liked a comment on this video saying pastor Joe Schimmel is leading people to hell. How is that possible according to your doctrine of “once saved always saved” ? He’s leading people directly to Jesus Christ and the gospel, the truth. Are you saying these people CAN lose their eternal salvation? And why and how? It doesn’t make sense.
@@highwired7781no no, proper argument is - “so, those are believers in Christ, how can it possible to lead them to hell if they are eternally secure?”
In another comment Trent wrote- that “you can’t lose salvation, but Grace and steadfastness.
I am starting to wonder where did apostles say about it?
@@highwired7781brother, I tend to think that True Christian groups were all killed, starting with Jesus( I know it was Father’s will) and we left with doctrines of demons, pertaining not only Catholicism, but …
So Those who took it seriously, that God in our Master, not caesar behind whom has always been satan- were vehemently exterminated: God’s Christ Jesus, apostles Euchites, Anabaptists- all killed.
Christ has risen!