It still makes me a little nervous in refinish situations since no manufacturer will really ever say it’s intended use is for refinishing but I know too through experimenting that it performs better than other primers. I’ll probably keep using it and also Mohawk makes a good vinyl sealer that works great as a color base.
Question on viny primer/sealers . I primed a cabinet door using 123 water base and used a water base top coat ben moore advance. The customer doesn't like the sheen and wants it almost matte now. Therefore I wanna switch over to laquer paint buy I know it'll melt the finish. Therefore my question is can I apply a couple coats of vinyl sealer to prep for laquer acceptance?
I know this is a little old but thought I would see if you would respond. I'm finishing an island top (quartersawn white oak). Would you recommend a vinyl sealer under a poly top coat for an island top? Seems like if it is a good product for moisture, it would be a good place to use it. Thoughts?
Have you ever used a shellac based sealer under Kem aqua? I’ve only use Sherwin‘s recommended sealer for Kem aqua. Looking for a little more antiqued aged appearance that might come from a shellac.
Mr Eric I have a maple kitchen cabinets to refinishing it was finished with clear lacquer and my client what’s to change to white color will you recommend sand the cleaner existing finish then apply vynil sealer then kem aqua thanks
If it is water based clear I suggest to continue with water based finishes but the previous finish was lacquer.if you re talking about kitchen doors I suggest to degrease your kitchen with a TSP solution,sand it with 320 grit,vacuum it or use a compressor with an air nozzle after that just pray regular lacquer primer and regular lacquer.but make sure it’s lacquer.I won’t spray precatalized lacquer over previously lacquer finish,it will crack big time
Shellac sucks. It’s the hose and carriage of the refinishing industry. I have no clue why guys still use it. Dye migration only occurs when you sand into the sealer coat but the envirolak seems to do well over oak if properly prepped.
Which vinyl sealer do you use with the Renner products, 1 with higher solids? I’m considering trying lacquer undercoater then vinyl sealer then top coat
Hey Eric thanks for sharing what you know. I’m trying to find a finish over cabinets that just need stain touched up and refinished with clear. I’ve scuffed 4 different doors with mixed results using cic water cv, Renner 851 w/5&10% hardner, and Renner 1374. A couple doors I was able to take a 5n1 and scrape the finish off. I’ve been trying to avoid solvent products over old lacquer and the birds nest that can evolve from that. Let me know your thoughts, thanks.
So I’m that senecio all you need to do is scuff with 320 and add the stain to the top coat and re-shade if that makes sense. Any of the product mentioned above will Work.
So I’m that senecio all you need to do is scuff with 320 and add the stain to the top coat and re-shade if that makes sense. Any of the product mentioned above will Work.
Yeah i see you point but there are several reasons. Vinyl sealer smell disappears very quickly. Pre-cat just doesn’t hold up in kitchens and CV is just terribly nasty stuff. It off gasses for a very long time. So if you use vinyl and a waterbase by the end of the day their is no smell in a customers home and you don’t have all the nasty off gasses.
82johnfricke if it’s walnut I will use a vinyl to give me the grain strike, warm the wood, pop the grain whatever the cool kids call it these days. But you are not going see tannin bleed with clears.
Adrian Gallardo solvent based I would suggest vinyl sealer,l then a conversion varnish or a 2k poly. Water base I would suggest aqua prime, milesi universal primer and then for the top coat cic conversion conversion varnish worth hardner or their poly or milesi 2k poly or the renner 743 I think it is.
Hi Eric, I am a pro painter and I do Kitchen Cabinets resurfacing from time to time, I recently had one of my client call me regarding their cabinets I did about 7 months ago, original cabinets were oak finished, I prepped the wood by cleaning it with a degreaser, then lightly sanded them primed it with oil primer and top coated with Kem Aqua plus White, now the problem is that the all around each door seem to have air packets and the paint seems to be lifted off, I can still see some primer on the wood, which logically thinking primer did its job but Kem Aqua didn't adhere to it, what could be the problem ? and if you have any solution I would really appreciate, Please help
Mr StOrK so you are saying it’s on every door in the kitchen or just a few? Also where is the location of the problem? Ex. Water areas, where is gets touched the most lowers uppers? I wouldn’t think you would have adhesion issues with the kem aqua and an oil primer however I have never tested it so i can’t say for sure. Hit me back with the questions above and we can go from there. Also feel free to email me instead with pictures @ericswoodshop@gmail.com.
Anyone make a water base? Seems like the Mowhawk vynal primer in the aerosol works great foe small tannin bleed throughs on primed surfaces, knots and such. Any idea why?
But many of us don't want to spray/ clean/ dispose of solvent based product. That's why we all topcoat with waterborne. So why would we want to introduce all those issues related to solvent products?
+Phil Tyler I get it I don’t use it on new wood much anymore but it will increase your speed require less sanding and it deals with a multitude of sins in refinishing check out my videos with Dennis Rodriguez and you might get a better understanding.
i always do a light 320 sand... just re cleared a set of lockers and a light 320 scuff had them looking good as new.
It still makes me a little nervous in refinish situations since no manufacturer will really ever say it’s intended use is for refinishing but I know too through experimenting that it performs better than other primers. I’ll probably keep using it and also Mohawk makes a good vinyl sealer that works great as a color base.
Question on viny primer/sealers . I primed a cabinet door using 123 water base and used a water base top coat ben moore advance. The customer doesn't like the sheen and wants it almost matte now. Therefore I wanna switch over to laquer paint buy I know it'll melt the finish. Therefore my question is can I apply a couple coats of vinyl sealer to prep for laquer acceptance?
I know this is a little old but thought I would see if you would respond. I'm finishing an island top (quartersawn white oak). Would you recommend a vinyl sealer under a poly top coat for an island top? Seems like if it is a good product for moisture, it would be a good place to use it. Thoughts?
You can put it under a poly but if you have a poly sealer it will work better than the vinyl
@@ericreason6559 Thanks!!
Have you ever used a shellac based sealer under Kem aqua? I’ve only use Sherwin‘s recommended sealer for Kem aqua. Looking for a little more antiqued aged appearance that might come from a shellac.
Yes I have our shellac under kem aqua but I don’t recommend shellac anymore.
Mr Eric I have a maple kitchen cabinets to refinishing it was finished with clear lacquer and my client what’s to change to white color will you recommend sand the cleaner existing finish then apply vynil sealer then kem aqua thanks
If it is water based clear I suggest to continue with water based finishes but the previous finish was lacquer.if you re talking about kitchen doors I suggest to degrease your kitchen with a TSP solution,sand it with 320 grit,vacuum it or use a compressor with an air nozzle after that just pray regular lacquer primer and regular lacquer.but make sure it’s lacquer.I won’t spray precatalized lacquer over previously lacquer finish,it will crack big time
Hey Eric,
Can I use Envirolak 170 on Oak Cabinet doors? Does dye migration become an issues? Would love to leave behind shellac!!
Shellac sucks. It’s the hose and carriage of the refinishing industry. I have no clue why guys still use it. Dye migration only occurs when you sand into the sealer coat but the envirolak seems to do well over oak if properly prepped.
Excúsame sir will Sherwood vinyl sealer from shevinwilliams work to seal stained cabinets thanks
Yep
Hi Eric,
What Is the best water based primer for kitchen cabinets refinishing?
Using in costumer houses
Renner 643 catalyzed, envirolak 170 catalyzed or cic 2k poly primer.
Thank you Eric,
How about Aqualente Plus primer pre- catalyzed?
Thanks for all the information........ever use Hydrocote resisthane pre cat lacquer as a top coat over latex paint?
That’s old school but yes you can do it if you let it dry. I 100 waterbase these days
Which vinyl sealer do you use with the Renner products, 1 with higher solids? I’m considering trying lacquer undercoater then vinyl sealer then top coat
Any brand will work I prefer axalta, cic and SW
Hey Eric thanks for sharing what you know. I’m trying to find a finish over cabinets that just need stain touched up and refinished with clear. I’ve scuffed 4 different doors with mixed results using cic water cv, Renner 851 w/5&10% hardner, and Renner 1374. A couple doors I was able to take a 5n1 and scrape the finish off. I’ve been trying to avoid solvent products over old lacquer and the birds nest that can evolve from that. Let me know your thoughts, thanks.
So I’m that senecio all you need to do is scuff with 320 and add the stain to the top coat and re-shade if that makes sense. Any of the product mentioned above will
Work.
So I’m that senecio all you need to do is scuff with 320 and add the stain to the top coat and re-shade if that makes sense. Any of the product mentioned above will
Work.
Whats the point in using WB if using a vinyl sealer? Why not just stick w/ lacquer or CV?
Yeah i see you point but there are several reasons. Vinyl sealer smell disappears very quickly. Pre-cat just doesn’t hold up in kitchens and CV is just terribly nasty stuff. It off gasses for a very long time. So if you use vinyl and a waterbase by the end of the day their is no smell in a customers home and you don’t have all the nasty off gasses.
Hey Eric have you tried the vinyl sealer with emerald urethane on previous stained and clear coated cabinets?
Vinyls Sealer works with almost everything but always do a test.
Hi Erick
Do you use white vinyl primer or water clear vinyl sealer for whites? At the store they tried to tint the vinyl sealer but it didn’t work.
White
@@ericreason6559 thank you for your help, I really appreciate it.
Also,
Have you used Mohawk 275 Vinyl Sealer as I can’t get CIC in Canada.
Yeah it’s not bad not as good as cic but better than nothing
Hi Eric. Can i use the cic vynyl sealer for new oak cabinets with oil base stain and cic water base poly as a top coat?
Absolutely
Can you brush or roll centurion vinyl primer 1106?
What do you recommend to seal and finish white oak cabinets and keep a raw natural wood look?
82johnfricke renner 718, sirca natural look or the milesi natural look. All have water and solvent based materials that will achieve the natural look.
@@ericreason6559 do you use any sort of sealer to prevent tannin pull before applying these products?
82johnfricke if it’s walnut I will use a vinyl to give me the grain strike, warm the wood, pop the grain whatever the cool kids call it these days. But you are not going see tannin bleed with clears.
What would you recommend for a primer and topcoat for an MDF studio desk. Looking for scratch durability. TIA
Adrian Gallardo solvent based I would suggest vinyl sealer,l then a conversion varnish or a 2k poly. Water base I would suggest aqua prime, milesi universal primer and then for the top coat cic conversion conversion varnish worth hardner or their poly or milesi 2k poly or the renner 743 I think it is.
Eric Reason Awesome! I appreciate the info and keep up the good work!
Hi Eric, I am a pro painter and I do Kitchen Cabinets resurfacing from time to time, I recently had one of my client call me regarding their cabinets I did about 7 months ago, original cabinets were oak finished, I prepped the wood by cleaning it with a degreaser, then lightly sanded them primed it with oil primer and top coated with Kem Aqua plus White, now the problem is that the all around each door seem to have air packets and the paint seems to be lifted off, I can still see some primer on the wood, which logically thinking primer did its job but Kem Aqua didn't adhere to it, what could be the problem ? and if you have any solution I would really appreciate, Please help
Mr StOrK so you are saying it’s on every door in the kitchen or just a few? Also where is the location of the problem? Ex. Water areas, where is gets touched the most lowers uppers? I wouldn’t think you would have adhesion issues with the kem aqua and an oil primer however I have never tested it so i can’t say for sure. Hit me back with the questions above and we can go from there. Also feel free to email me instead with pictures @ericswoodshop@gmail.com.
Inhesion?
Anyone make a water base? Seems like the Mowhawk vynal primer in the aerosol works great foe small tannin bleed throughs on primed surfaces, knots and such. Any idea why?
Does it work under 688??
Yes but using Renner 643 or 602
Will yeild you a better and more durable system.
Is Centurion able to be brushed or rolled?
I honestly haven't tried it but the milesi and renner can be rolled
But many of us don't want to spray/ clean/ dispose of solvent based product. That's why we all topcoat with waterborne. So why would we want to introduce all those issues related to solvent products?
+Phil Tyler I get it I don’t use it on new wood much anymore but it will increase your speed require less sanding and it deals with a multitude of sins in refinishing check out my videos with Dennis Rodriguez and you might get a better understanding.
I'm embarrassed to say but I like that latex 123 primer it sticks to everything and even blocks tannin
Hey guys is Lorchen Hydro Edge 410 Sealer any good ?
Don’t know haven’t tested it.
Thanks for the info
Dailey Woodworks you bet glad that you found it informative.
Southern accent is killin’ me “Muh-Lay-see” lol....
As they say American by birth Southern by the grace of God. 👊👊
Thank you!!
Painter for over 30 years and it sucks living in California we don’t get the awesome chemicals.
Jajajajajajaja tell me about it bro.
how would it work under PPG Breakthrough V50?
Christopher Suckow works great i did a whole house of doors and trim with that schedule. The 250 ppg is better better if you can get it.
PPG breakthrough is horrible. V50 doesn’t brush or roll well and V51 breaks down with hand oils. Use anything else.