The Kickstarter would have been cancelled because you can't run a Kickstarter with the aim of starting a business in general. You have to promise some specific product or service.
This may not have been one of your typical videos, but as always it was super insightful. I hope everyone affected by this issue gets their problems resolved in the best way possible.
As someone who bought a pre-sale from HotshotComics' ebay store(May 2021) and never received it and dealing with Doug's gaslighting, I'm truly enjoying the comic community calling the scam out. If I never receive my book, the $64 lost has been made back with entertainment.
When buying online for anything,, it's better to have a COD )Cash On Delivery) option where you wont pay foranything until the item gets delivered to avoid the buyer running off with your money.
@@SoftEndy Yeah, is that the 'racket' where it's suggested that the people buying these 'vintage sealed NES Games' at auction for $1M+ are actually associated with the seller/grading company? And they're just trying to set an inflated 'market value' for these items, so that the NEXT time they list the game at auction, hopefully someone ELSE will simply accept that the $1.5M price tag is just the current 'market value' :) This story sounds just like the store offered charge a premium to submit the customer's new comics directly to CGC for grading, and then send the buyer a graded slab instead of the raw book? Although for some reason they never actually delivered the slabbed comics? However the store is still in business, and continuing to accept new business and ship new orders?
The sad part is these scammers are usually store owners or website runners or facebook group owners/operators who have some miniscule piece of power that they can use to take advantage of people who have done nothing but frequent their store/website/group.
Actually the saddest part is how a small group of people have talked each other into believing that they've been scammed. If this were a scam, no comics would have been ordered and paid for from the distributor, we would not have spent countless hours inspecting, bagging and boarding each comic, much less sending them off to CGC for grading, and we would not have been in constant contact with CGC and made payments as often as we could. Literally all of that refutes the "scam" claim entirely.
@@ashevillecomics637this is one of the most pathetic responses from a business I have ever seen. "Durrr if it scam, why some people got product they paid for??" Embarrassing. Straight scumbag.
The biggest problem at the moment, regarding 28:45, about the good will with Cgc , like Bronze said is that they may send our books back to Doug. Mike from CGC, the forum admin had posted a message that Doug was not getting books back then deleted it and locked the thread. Just not a good look and would really ruin all that good will we felt for them.
@@ashevillecomics637 just like you were obligated to pay for the services using the money that was sent to you, and then send them to us. Still waiting for my book!
Hotshots got me for 11 pre-order CGC 9.8s. I bought them off the Shop Pay ap thinking it was safe as they advertised the site. Doug has no morals or ethics. He to this day tells me I’m getting my books back. I told him CGC might send them to me if they can and he takes credit for that. He lies and he has been banned from all local shows in his state.
... also i've visited Asheville Comics ,one of the stores on Merrimon, but the last time i was there,they changed their name to Asheville Horror, so i don't know... it's sad really 😔😔😔.
I ordered from them just over 2 years ago. After 5 1/2 months, I emailed me the owner and he didn't respond. I filed a claim with PayPal just before their 6 month window expired. The owner then emailed me telling me to close the claim. I said that I needed to at least have my purchase be covered by buyer protection and that I would buy the slab once it became available. He then responded calling me a loser and every other nasty name in the book. The owner is clearly unstable.
"I am not typically one to spill tea" *pulls out beautiful painted nails* Perfect timing if I didn't know the channel I would have assumed you were a tea channel lol
This guy scammed me over $700 in pre order comics. It's been over 2 years and after the first year I could buy those preorder comics on ebay (In hand) for cheaper! Replies from him in emails were just rude and placed blame SOLELY on CGC saying they are taking forever with books. Now in fact we all now know is he never paid his bills and CGC was holding the books waiting for payment. What a JOKE!
I admittedly haven’t watched the whole thing yet, but it’s a very interesting topic. Mind you, at 10 minutes in you still haven’t really addressed the actual issue and main point of the video. I think a little more info in the intro would have done well.
I guess I understand why somebody might want to slab a book with historic significance such as FF #1 or Amazing Fantasy #15, but why on Earth would anybody want a new comic slabbed?
Im someone that does this, I've slabbed all of Chip Zdarsky's Daredevil run, the fact of the matter is, in my opinion, a slab looks better to display then a raw book, And also if a book only costs 2.99 or 3.99 might as well pick up a few copy's and send a few in and keep one for reading. I make good money so its not that big of a deal when it comes to cost and I enjoy sending books in and getting them back slabbed.
@@legomen8022 that's fair enough. My initial comment wasn't meant as a criticism, but as someone who's spent their comic-collecting life hunting down the cheapest reading copies they can find, I was genuinely curious about who is paying to get their books slabbed. It never occurred to me that aesthetics or the anticipation of receiving the books played a part.
Definitely not dishonest, simply ran out of money for a bit. If we were scamming anyone we never would have bothered to buy the comics, submit them to CGC, stay in constant contact with them, update everyone on social media, etc.
Ive actually been to asheville comics in NC. Wasn't that bad but not a ton of actual inventory from what I remeber, but the place like a mile down the road was awesome and me and the owner talked for like 2 hours about random comics.
Man, it took till 13:40 into this video to understand what the alleged scam was, and that was by me pausing and reading the complaints. You might want to lead in with the allegations in detail first before ranting.
Yeah, lots of shops seem to be offering this as an option now. So with most new pre-orders you can either request to receive a raw copy on release date. Or for an extra $50 you can have the shop immediately submit your copy to CGC, and then send you the graded slab as soon as the LCS gets them back. The only 'SCAM' seems to be if this shop just stopped fulfilling online orders? Most of those complaints appeared to be at least a year old, and some dating back to when the place first opened in 2021. So, is this place even still in business? Have they fulfilled OTHER online orders for items they currently had in stock? I'd be surprised if new customers kept making orders if the store already had a number of bad reviews? And just for anyone NOT aware, over the last few years it hasn't been COMPLETELY UNUSUAL for customers to have waited 12 months or MORE for CGC to fulfill their orders. Especially during the pandemic, many people reported waiting AT LEAST 6 months for CGC to return books that had been submitted for grading.
I don't believe there was a large amount of drama, or that sort of thing, but I'd really enjoy a video on Hellblazer, or even DCs Vertigo Imprint as a more rounded topic. Supernatural books have always been a hard sell 😅
My thoughts on this are as follows. Slabbing your comics defeats the whole purpose of collecting comics which is the joy of reading them. I go as far as bagging and boarding them but that’s it. Kudos on shining a light on this. Again this is just my opinion.
It only seems to be beneficial if you need to verify the condition to maximize the resale value. And if you're getting comics slabbed with the intention of selling them, then that's not really 'collecting' anymore is it?
I see your points, but I'd argue that buying, selling, and trading have been part of collecting forever. Why else bring your cards and comics to conventions? (back when that was the point of them)
@@scottfree1870 Right, but when you're trading sealed slabs that will never get read, then it's almost like you could be exchanging any random object? At least with cards/coins you're not missing out on as much having them graded, but a slabbed comic might as well just be a 'stock certificate'. Just another store of value... Though I guess you do get to see the cover art, which is arguably the best part anyway. :) Of course if I just want the cover, I tend to spend $1 getting a high resolution printout from Staples ;)
I’m strictly a Mylar and acid free backing board collector when it comes to my Golden Age comics and would never want to get them slabbed away being as I’m also a reader who collects them for the interior stories and art as well. Plus I remember reading that CGC uses polypropylene inside their slabs which is bad for long term archival storage of any vintage Golden or Silver Age comics.
You literally have to work hard to get an F with the BBB. All a company literally has to do in most cases is respond to complaints in order to save their grade, whether they correct the issue or resolve anything at all. To get an F not only means they are a bad business, but that they are lazy and overconfident that people will give them money anyway. PayPal has always been excellent getting my money back. I once put in for a refund on an unreceived order only two days after it was supposed to be received and the company still saying they didn't even know when they'd ship but have to "put in a request" to cancel it, and Paypal decided in my favor before the day was even over.
Not really. All it takes is for a small group of conspiracy theorists in regards to your business to convince one another that they've been scammed, regardless of the evidence that completely refutes that claim. Then they all tell each other to contact BBB to complain, and there you go.
@@ashevillecomics637 I've dealt with the BBB for many years personally and with my job, and even some real trash companies with pages upon pages of valid complaints, and still have A ratings. Literally all they have to do is respond even if the issue is not resolved or even attempted to be handled. So nice try. A "small group of conspiracy theorists" will not even put a tiny dent in your BBB rating, much less plummet it to an F. May want to make sure you know who you're talking to because you just make yourself sound worse, just like your responses to the people he addressed in the video. Good business owners throughout the world are able to respond to negative comments, both genuine and not, without demeaning those people. Attacking those people who are not getting resolution after almost two years just shows a poor business owner and a not so great human being. You truly seem like real scum. Good luck with that.
Sadly I would advice people to abandon purchasing comics for the idea of making money. Unless you can afford high end rare items or luck upon some life changing find… stay away. It’s a scammy industry akin to baseball card collecting. It’s a hard pass for me anyway.
I got scammed a few weeks ago brought AMS#129 and Hulk#181 on the offer up site and got scammed and offer up wouldn't get my money back so I am only buying off eBay for now own cause I got screwed over big time. So everyone needs to make sure they only buy from places you know are safe cause there are a lot of scams out there.
Why would anyone ever take their comics to a shop so they can send it to CGC for you, just do it directly, I don't understand what the logic is here, you want more points of failure, you want to pay more money, what are you doing? The whole slab thing is weird and I don't get it, but I guess everyone has their thing.
The one thing with that is usually the people who do do that only will send in a singular book that they want graded, CGC requires a membership to send books in directly that's cost 24 dollars. I've always believed though that its impossible to send in a singular book to CGC once you've sent one in. it's a addiction, So in reality, they may save a little money on that first book, but afterwards they are losing money.
Paused at the 5 minute mark and Chris STILL hasn’t come forward with “the scam” is. There’s been constant allusion to it and talk around about it. GOODNESS GRACIOUS GRAVY, talk about burying the lead!!! How’s about fully naming and revealing your subject matter and using and use the 5-W’s while doing it: Who, What, Where, When, Why.
This was an excellent breakdown of a "potential" "alleged" situation that, based on the evidence presented, certainly seems likely. However, you took the correct approach and until this is proven in a court of law then it is NOT proven and to claim that this is fact is technically slander. As I said, it certainly does look likely that it is the case, and I do hope that CGC makes things right for the people being affected (if this is even possible).
No, it would not be "technically slander". It would be possible for someone to claim it was slander, but that would need to be proved in court. It would just be alleged slander until proved.
If I remember correctly you have to have a membership with CGC to send them in. If you're sending in a bunch of books then you can make it worth it, but if you only have one or two it doesn't make financial sense
@@grantbaugh2773 Yeah, I think you have to send a few books to make it worth the cost of becoming a member. And then just the process of signing up sounds like a huge hassle... And is that method of doing business even 'legal'? I'm trying to think of any other businesses that force customers to sign up for some sort of 'membership' before you can buy their services? I guess 'CostCo' requires a membership to shop, but I'm not sure that's quite the same thing...
Same. The membership per year to be able to submit is only 25$, and you get 10% off. The premium membership is 149$ and it comes with a 150$ credit. I sent 5 comics in the middle of the pandemic and it took 4 months. My MTG cards took about 6 months. I didn't fast-track. I just sent 6 comics in for grading and it only took 30 days. Signing up is definitely not a huge hassle.
I've been watching this all unfold, and it looks like Hotshot (and Doug's many dba's) are acting in bad faith. But it's also worth noting that two years of waiting has been a normal thing in my experience at both CGC and CBCS -though with the latter my wait was due to signature verifications on magazines (and the delay due to developing the excellent, new slabs). And after 9 months I reached out to both CGC and CBCS and would get a verification that my question was received with a non-reply type of note telling me that delays are normal, etc. And then I would check in every four months thereafter. I had a 26 month wait to get back all of my CGC submissions. There was no rhyme nor reason to why some were delayed instead of others, since I had multiple books from multiple eras. They did give me a credit on the long wait for some that I was able to use on the tail end of my 38 book submission. Many of these major pre-seller accounts submit hundreds of comics per month, and there doesn't seem to be a discount for quicker turnaround. If they are using CGC's pressing service to try to guarantee a 9.8 on new books that come-up just a bit short on pre-screen, that causes a massive delay in grading. It's my speculation that Hot Shot submits their own resale copies along with customer pre-sales and the concern about decling values on most of these variant books has them selling on the resale market the first copies returned and making their customers wait for the rest. In cases where the variants become quite valuable, they may be planning to refund the buyer and profit from selling their book. It's skeezy. At this point, I've actually caught up on all of my pre-orders -though I'm not a frequent buyer of variants or the like. My go-to for a long time was Golden Apple who shared in the Frankie's exclusives. I recently saw the pre-sale for the Coipel ASM, which I thought was a cool variant and worth the extra spend for the wall-appeal, but I didn't opt for a slabbed copy and will be having my own vendor handle the pressing, and I can submit myself and more easily track the progress. CBCS has money-back guarantee on turn-around which I'll probably be using to grade it.
While it is certainly possible that some orders from Hotshot were affected by things like CGC extended delays and/or in-house pressing wait times, that seems improbable to explain the breadth of this phenomenon and the span of time and multiple orders it affects. Keep in mind that Doug himself verified that CGC is holding orders and has been, presumably, for some time as it wen to collections, too. Also about the CBCS TAT guarantee, it's too bad they changed that to a paid extra fee (since only express orders are guaranteed, you'd start at $40 fee for a new book and up to $60 fore a vintage worth less than $1,000). It's not a huge deal but it didn't do enough to incentivize me to submit with CBCS again and it seems like a half-step back after a really positive full step forward when they launched the guaranteed promo.
I submit directly to CGC but I've been following this story on the CGC boards. Big props to CGC for intervening especially CGC Mike (the chat board monitor) for going ABOVE AND BEYOND to resolve the issue.
Is this an old story? It looked like most of the comments they reviewed were at least a year old? Is this Ashville company even still in business? It sounds like they took orders then shut down without refunding anyone? Is their physical store still running normally? And evidently they only OPENED in July 2021, so looks like they've been getting complaints since they started business! lol I can't imagine that this place could still be taking any online orders with so many complaints from people who never got things they paid for a year ago?
@@ncbarbarian Wow, so they're still taking online orders for new merchandise? I can't believe anyone would still order from the place when it looks like they've been getting bad reviews ever since they opened!
@@Bryan-gy2zu I watched the video one and a half times and still have no idea what it's about so no that's not true. Please explain what this store is doing that's so bad. Not once is that explained.
@@archmage7813 customers are submitting their comic books to a comic store to be graded by CGC. Dozens of them haven’t received their books or updates even after the expected delay; some have been waiting nearly two years or more. People have contacted the owner of the comic store and received nasty messages from him or been dodged. CGC is working to resolve the issue.
As an old man who still mourns the death of coolness and curses them Gen Z folks on a daily basis, (for murdering rock music with the damn hip hop and pop country) I always KNEW there had to be potentially shady aspects of this whole advanced system of gradings which are essentially attempting to stretch an absolute. With perfection being a verbal symbol for the concept of something attaining the highest level of positive it can while still being a physical object bound by the laws of physics. When I was a kid, you simply grabbed the newest Overstreet guide (new meant that it said the current year on the cover) and looked at the price for a Mint copy of whatever you were looking for and BAM! You had completed the first part of your journey. You knew what, if you could find it, it was going to set you back. Now you damn kids have completely upended the apple cart with your damn perfect point more perfect ratings and chemical baths. It's like you damn millennials have turned comic collecting into a scene from "Death Becomes Her" (a brilliant Robert Zemeckis film you're too young to know of) and I knew in my cynical base line worldview that there must be shenanigans, and thanks to Chris, my old man suspicions are confirmed and vindicated 🤘🤘🤘🤘 However, I didn't know that there were sometimes people standing between the customer and the CGC. That's an obvious red flag. Who are these middle men? The Catholic Church of comic collecting?🤣😂😂🤣🤣 No wonder corruption has become an issue! This concludes my smug old man rant👍 PS, Chris you ARE spreading the word, and as Frank Castle would immediately notice, giving physical locations of the bad actors 😉 PPS Chris is NOT suggesting that you chuck a hubcap through the window of anyone's store! That would be a childish, not funny and inexcusable thing to do at the completely accurate physical coordinates which will take you directly to the store front of the bad guys.
Years ago, American Entertainment (who are now defunct, and glad they are) had back issue listings in their catalogue, and they had listed Uncanny X-MEN 221-223 (first full appearance of Mr. Sinister, 2nd battle with Marauders) and they were going for a reasonable price. My dad gave me the money, got a money order, sent it out. I never saw those issues, to this day. I don't know if anyone else had an experience like that with American Entertainment, but I'm glad they're gone. Ripping off anyone is bad, but ripping off a kid? Low.
Yeah, I've recently been discovering that most of those old Comic Shop ads were basically just printing listings directly from the Comic Book Price Guide, and none of those ads had ANY correlation to what the store actually had in stock, or what they'd charge... Apparently Mile High comics was the same way, but at least their ads specifically ask people to make ALTERNATE selections 'just in case' their first choices aren't in stock... And I read about someone who ordered the Hulk #181 for $12 every month for a year, but SURPRISINGLY NEVER received a copy. lol They'd also try their best to give you a 'rain cheque' or 'store credit' rather than ever refunding any CASH! lol
It's cool how mature and even handed Chris is with this stuff. (I myself would be screaming red faced with spittle flying Alex Jones style). You know to even do an episode which is going to ruffle feathers he damn well did his research, but like right off the bat he actually brings in an topical expert, so yeah... it's a scam.
Finally someone with a mass following in the comic community covered this subject.Thank you Comic Tropes.Spread the word people HotShot comics is a SCAM.
Here in the US, another resource besides the BBB is your state's Dept. of Justice Consumer Protection division. You can find filed complaints databases, specifics on your state's fraud laws and a place to file consumer complaints online.
I wonder if cgc is partly to blame for this. Maybe thats why they are shipping books directly to customers, not out of kindness, but to cover any potential liability. Was hot shot/asheville comics a cgc authorized dealer? What sort of screening/verification process does cgc do? Customers are under the impression that cgc has vetted/screened these businesses and they are trusted partners. Sure the small print says cgc is unaffiliated and not liable. So is the name "cgc authorized dealer" just given out to anyone? It sounds like the owner has had business problems dating back to at least when they owned "Haywood Comics" (2015-2018ish). I would be curious to see what the claim form from cgc says. I'm guessing you have to sign some sort of nda/waiver that you forfeit your right to sue CGC.
Sounds a lot like the guy that runs Piko interactive. The guy who buys licenses to terrible super nintendo games like Super Noah's Ark 3D and then attempts to redistribute them. He's had some history of pretending to be different people to distribute his items and shift blame whenever they can't fulfill orders
The Kickstarter would have been cancelled because you can't run a Kickstarter with the aim of starting a business in general. You have to promise some specific product or service.
It was an Indiegogo. But I bet you're right.
This may not have been one of your typical videos, but as always it was super insightful. I hope everyone affected by this issue gets their problems resolved in the best way possible.
As someone who bought a pre-sale from HotshotComics' ebay store(May 2021) and never received it and dealing with Doug's gaslighting, I'm truly enjoying the comic community calling the scam out. If I never receive my book, the $64 lost has been made back with entertainment.
When buying online for anything,, it's better to have a COD )Cash On Delivery) option where you wont pay foranything until the item gets delivered to avoid the buyer running off with your money.
I used to work for this guy and it was such a dark period in my life. Thank you for covering his awful awful behavior!
Can you tell us more?
@jakeinman8273
Yo dude it's Venom from the shop you frequented lol funny seeing you here
Aufjedenfall Bruder
I’m glad that you’re covering this, Chris.
Good coverage Chris
Me too.. I loved Mr Show
Honestly Chris is a legend
I’m glad that you’re Christening this, over
Thanks for covering this topic. And thanks to Bronze Age Nerd for providing such reasoned and even-handed comments.
Karl Jobst also made a fantastic video in regards to this same scam being pulled with video games.
I was gonna suggest this very same video.
That's a completely different style of scam, they just both deal with grading.
@@SoftEndy you're right, I shouldn't have said same. it's a similar scam that also abuses the trust people place in grading systems
@@SoftEndy the scam is regarding manipulating speculative bubbles
@@SoftEndy Yeah, is that the 'racket' where it's suggested that the people buying these 'vintage sealed NES Games' at auction for $1M+ are actually associated with the seller/grading company? And they're just trying to set an inflated 'market value' for these items, so that the NEXT time they list the game at auction, hopefully someone ELSE will simply accept that the $1.5M price tag is just the current 'market value' :)
This story sounds just like the store offered charge a premium to submit the customer's new comics directly to CGC for grading, and then send the buyer a graded slab instead of the raw book? Although for some reason they never actually delivered the slabbed comics? However the store is still in business, and continuing to accept new business and ship new orders?
“Scammy wammy wammies” great call back, Chris!
The sad part is these scammers are usually store owners or website runners or facebook group owners/operators who have some miniscule piece of power that they can use to take advantage of people who have done nothing but frequent their store/website/group.
Actually the saddest part is how a small group of people have talked each other into believing that they've been scammed. If this were a scam, no comics would have been ordered and paid for from the distributor, we would not have spent countless hours inspecting, bagging and boarding each comic, much less sending them off to CGC for grading, and we would not have been in constant contact with CGC and made payments as often as we could. Literally all of that refutes the "scam" claim entirely.
@@ashevillecomics637this is one of the most pathetic responses from a business I have ever seen. "Durrr if it scam, why some people got product they paid for??" Embarrassing. Straight scumbag.
The biggest problem at the moment, regarding 28:45, about the good will with Cgc , like Bronze said is that they may send our books back to Doug. Mike from CGC, the forum admin had posted a message that Doug was not getting books back then deleted it and locked the thread. Just not a good look and would really ruin all that good will we felt for them.
CGC is legally obligated to return the comics to the submitter. They do not have the option to send them to anyone else.
@@ashevillecomics637 just like you were obligated to pay for the services using the money that was sent to you, and then send them to us. Still waiting for my book!
Thank you for helping spread more awareness on this topic and for the shoutout! You guys rock
Hotshots got me for 11 pre-order CGC 9.8s. I bought them off the Shop Pay ap thinking it was safe as they advertised the site. Doug has no morals or ethics. He to this day tells me I’m getting my books back. I told him CGC might send them to me if they can and he takes credit for that. He lies and he has been banned from all local shows in his state.
What's crazy is I love in ASHEVILLE I know these shops. Crazy stuff.
I don't collect comics (anymore) and I rarely if ever had them graded but learning about this made me angry.
... also i've visited Asheville Comics ,one of the stores on Merrimon, but the last time i was there,they changed their name to Asheville Horror, so i don't know... it's sad really 😔😔😔.
I ordered from them just over 2 years ago. After 5 1/2 months, I emailed me the owner and he didn't respond. I filed a claim with PayPal just before their 6 month window expired. The owner then emailed me telling me to close the claim. I said that I needed to at least have my purchase be covered by buyer protection and that I would buy the slab once it became available. He then responded calling me a loser and every other nasty name in the book. The owner is clearly unstable.
"I am not typically one to spill tea"
*pulls out beautiful painted nails*
Perfect timing if I didn't know the channel I would have assumed you were a tea channel lol
This guy scammed me over $700 in pre order comics. It's been over 2 years and after the first year I could buy those preorder comics on ebay (In hand) for cheaper! Replies from him in emails were just rude and placed blame SOLELY on CGC saying they are taking forever with books. Now in fact we all now know is he never paid his bills and CGC was holding the books waiting for payment. What a JOKE!
I admittedly haven’t watched the whole thing yet, but it’s a very interesting topic.
Mind you, at 10 minutes in you still haven’t really addressed the actual issue and main point of the video. I think a little more info in the intro would have done well.
Today Comic Tropes & Bronze Age Nerd are heroes.
Thanks Chris & Chris
Cool to see two friends/ amazing people !
Never been particularly into the collecting scene but this is absurd, it’s good you’re talking about this
It should take near that long to grade a comic. That's insane.
This is so far the only comic channel that I watch that goes in depth so I’m glad you’re including some other channels for me to check out as well
I guess I understand why somebody might want to slab a book with historic significance such as FF #1 or Amazing Fantasy #15, but why on Earth would anybody want a new comic slabbed?
Im someone that does this, I've slabbed all of Chip Zdarsky's Daredevil run, the fact of the matter is, in my opinion, a slab looks better to display then a raw book, And also if a book only costs 2.99 or 3.99 might as well pick up a few copy's and send a few in and keep one for reading. I make good money so its not that big of a deal when it comes to cost and I enjoy sending books in and getting them back slabbed.
@@legomen8022 that's fair enough. My initial comment wasn't meant as a criticism, but as someone who's spent their comic-collecting life hunting down the cheapest reading copies they can find, I was genuinely curious about who is paying to get their books slabbed. It never occurred to me that aesthetics or the anticipation of receiving the books played a part.
Speculation. I don’t get it emotionally, but I get what they’re trying for, but I personally think it’s foolish.
Not surprised Chris is getting the word out on this (probably) dishonest business so others won't get ripped! Thanks Chris
Definitely not dishonest, simply ran out of money for a bit. If we were scamming anyone we never would have bothered to buy the comics, submit them to CGC, stay in constant contact with them, update everyone on social media, etc.
Ive actually been to asheville comics in NC. Wasn't that bad but not a ton of actual inventory from what I remeber, but the place like a mile down the road was awesome and me and the owner talked for like 2 hours about random comics.
Thank you for this, Chris. i really am learning a LOT in regards on how NOT to start/run a business 😕😔👍.
Great video. Love both your channels!
Man, it took till 13:40 into this video to understand what the alleged scam was, and that was by me pausing and reading the complaints. You might want to lead in with the allegations in detail first before ranting.
Haha, I did the same thing.
Yeah, lots of shops seem to be offering this as an option now. So with most new pre-orders you can either request to receive a raw copy on release date. Or for an extra $50 you can have the shop immediately submit your copy to CGC, and then send you the graded slab as soon as the LCS gets them back.
The only 'SCAM' seems to be if this shop just stopped fulfilling online orders? Most of those complaints appeared to be at least a year old, and some dating back to when the place first opened in 2021. So, is this place even still in business? Have they fulfilled OTHER online orders for items they currently had in stock? I'd be surprised if new customers kept making orders if the store already had a number of bad reviews?
And just for anyone NOT aware, over the last few years it hasn't been COMPLETELY UNUSUAL for customers to have waited 12 months or MORE for CGC to fulfill their orders. Especially during the pandemic, many people reported waiting AT LEAST 6 months for CGC to return books that had been submitted for grading.
Yay thanks for the upload Chris!
After EverQuest Next, I don't pre pay or do donations for things. That taught me you can't trust anyone.
I just watched your Kevin Eastman episode - it was so good! Plz do Peter Laird episode soon! No time like the present with Mutant Mayhem coming out
Excellent public service❣️
I don't believe there was a large amount of drama, or that sort of thing, but I'd really enjoy a video on Hellblazer, or even DCs Vertigo Imprint as a more rounded topic.
Supernatural books have always been a hard sell 😅
Thanks for the warning, you're a real one
Love the conversational episodes!
The other benefit of the Judy Justice thing would be bringing attention to the whole issue
Look up the Karl Jobst regarding WATA grading scam. Its a similar situation
My thoughts on this are as follows. Slabbing your comics defeats the whole purpose of collecting comics which is the joy of reading them. I go as far as bagging and boarding them but that’s it. Kudos on shining a light on this. Again this is just my opinion.
It only seems to be beneficial if you need to verify the condition to maximize the resale value. And if you're getting comics slabbed with the intention of selling them, then that's not really 'collecting' anymore is it?
I see your points, but I'd argue that buying, selling, and trading have been part of collecting forever. Why else bring your cards and comics to conventions? (back when that was the point of them)
@@scottfree1870 Right, but when you're trading sealed slabs that will never get read, then it's almost like you could be exchanging any random object?
At least with cards/coins you're not missing out on as much having them graded, but a slabbed comic might as well just be a 'stock certificate'. Just another store of value... Though I guess you do get to see the cover art, which is arguably the best part anyway. :)
Of course if I just want the cover, I tend to spend $1 getting a high resolution printout from Staples ;)
I’m strictly a Mylar and acid free backing board collector when it comes to my Golden Age comics and would never want to get them slabbed away being as I’m also a reader who collects them for the interior stories and art as well. Plus I remember reading that CGC uses polypropylene inside their slabs which is bad for long term archival storage of any vintage Golden or Silver Age comics.
@@cha5 all good points.
That is a very impressive face your beard grew. 😂
I’m actually gonna visit the store in Asheville for comics tomorrow bc I live in NC and see what happens lol
Why would CGC just have the books lying around? Is it their fault that Hotshot never got some of these people's books back?
Thanks for doing this
I unfortunately, don't collect comic collectables anymore for the fanboy victimization of the greedy.
Side Note: Mr. Show is the best sketch comedy show of all time
This reminds me a lot of heavy metal Magazine.
You literally have to work hard to get an F with the BBB. All a company literally has to do in most cases is respond to complaints in order to save their grade, whether they correct the issue or resolve anything at all. To get an F not only means they are a bad business, but that they are lazy and overconfident that people will give them money anyway. PayPal has always been excellent getting my money back. I once put in for a refund on an unreceived order only two days after it was supposed to be received and the company still saying they didn't even know when they'd ship but have to "put in a request" to cancel it, and Paypal decided in my favor before the day was even over.
Not really. All it takes is for a small group of conspiracy theorists in regards to your business to convince one another that they've been scammed, regardless of the evidence that completely refutes that claim. Then they all tell each other to contact BBB to complain, and there you go.
@@ashevillecomics637 I've dealt with the BBB for many years personally and with my job, and even some real trash companies with pages upon pages of valid complaints, and still have A ratings. Literally all they have to do is respond even if the issue is not resolved or even attempted to be handled. So nice try. A "small group of conspiracy theorists" will not even put a tiny dent in your BBB rating, much less plummet it to an F. May want to make sure you know who you're talking to because you just make yourself sound worse, just like your responses to the people he addressed in the video. Good business owners throughout the world are able to respond to negative comments, both genuine and not, without demeaning those people. Attacking those people who are not getting resolution after almost two years just shows a poor business owner and a not so great human being. You truly seem like real scum. Good luck with that.
Juicy topic!
I like your nails. Normally, I'm not a big fan of polish on men, but, it looks good on you
Such an interesting video. Havent had anything graded and now i sure won't lol
wow, good video.
Sadly I would advice people to abandon purchasing comics for the idea of making money. Unless you can afford high end rare items or luck upon some life changing find… stay away. It’s a scammy industry akin to baseball card collecting. It’s a hard pass for me anyway.
Thanks!
Good job
But...all collectible grading is a scam...
I got scammed a few weeks ago brought AMS#129 and Hulk#181 on the offer up site and got scammed and offer up wouldn't get my money back so I am only buying off eBay for now own cause I got screwed over big time. So everyone needs to make sure they only buy from places you know are safe cause there are a lot of scams out there.
Oh my scammy, flammy mammy!
Why would anyone ever take their comics to a shop so they can send it to CGC for you, just do it directly, I don't understand what the logic is here, you want more points of failure, you want to pay more money, what are you doing?
The whole slab thing is weird and I don't get it, but I guess everyone has their thing.
The one thing with that is usually the people who do do that only will send in a singular book that they want graded, CGC requires a membership to send books in directly that's cost 24 dollars.
I've always believed though that its impossible to send in a singular book to CGC once you've sent one in. it's a addiction, So in reality, they may save a little money on that first book, but afterwards they are losing money.
Will you be at SDCC?
No, maybe I’ll go next year.
I paid $8000 for a lost in space robot that didn’t exist
Paused at the 5 minute mark and Chris STILL hasn’t come forward with “the scam” is. There’s been constant allusion to it and talk around about it. GOODNESS GRACIOUS GRAVY, talk about burying the lead!!! How’s about fully naming and revealing your subject matter and using and use the 5-W’s while doing it:
Who, What, Where, When, Why.
Never mind
🐉 🐺 🦌 🦁
Please do a review of the Game of Thrones comic series!
Slabbing is a grift
This was an excellent breakdown of a "potential" "alleged" situation that, based on the evidence presented, certainly seems likely. However, you took the correct approach and until this is proven in a court of law then it is NOT proven and to claim that this is fact is technically slander. As I said, it certainly does look likely that it is the case, and I do hope that CGC makes things right for the people being affected (if this is even possible).
No, it would not be "technically slander". It would be possible for someone to claim it was slander, but that would need to be proved in court. It would just be alleged slander until proved.
Just send them in yourself. I don’t understand why you’d go through a third party.
If I remember correctly you have to have a membership with CGC to send them in. If you're sending in a bunch of books then you can make it worth it, but if you only have one or two it doesn't make financial sense
@@grantbaugh2773 Yeah, I think you have to send a few books to make it worth the cost of becoming a member. And then just the process of signing up sounds like a huge hassle...
And is that method of doing business even 'legal'? I'm trying to think of any other businesses that force customers to sign up for some sort of 'membership' before you can buy their services? I guess 'CostCo' requires a membership to shop, but I'm not sure that's quite the same thing...
Same. The membership per year to be able to submit is only 25$, and you get 10% off. The premium membership is 149$ and it comes with a 150$ credit.
I sent 5 comics in the middle of the pandemic and it took 4 months. My MTG cards took about 6 months. I didn't fast-track.
I just sent 6 comics in for grading and it only took 30 days.
Signing up is definitely not a huge hassle.
Comics grading is a scam. We should have never allowed it to enter our hobby.
I feel that. All it does is make older books impossible to read because they just get graded instead
Your audio is pretty bad on this video. You keep breaking up.
No sound
I think you need to refresh it
I've been watching this all unfold, and it looks like Hotshot (and Doug's many dba's) are acting in bad faith.
But it's also worth noting that two years of waiting has been a normal thing in my experience at both CGC and CBCS -though with the latter my wait was due to signature verifications on magazines (and the delay due to developing the excellent, new slabs). And after 9 months I reached out to both CGC and CBCS and would get a verification that my question was received with a non-reply type of note telling me that delays are normal, etc. And then I would check in every four months thereafter. I had a 26 month wait to get back all of my CGC submissions. There was no rhyme nor reason to why some were delayed instead of others, since I had multiple books from multiple eras. They did give me a credit on the long wait for some that I was able to use on the tail end of my 38 book submission.
Many of these major pre-seller accounts submit hundreds of comics per month, and there doesn't seem to be a discount for quicker turnaround. If they are using CGC's pressing service to try to guarantee a 9.8 on new books that come-up just a bit short on pre-screen, that causes a massive delay in grading. It's my speculation that Hot Shot submits their own resale copies along with customer pre-sales and the concern about decling values on most of these variant books has them selling on the resale market the first copies returned and making their customers wait for the rest. In cases where the variants become quite valuable, they may be planning to refund the buyer and profit from selling their book. It's skeezy.
At this point, I've actually caught up on all of my pre-orders -though I'm not a frequent buyer of variants or the like. My go-to for a long time was Golden Apple who shared in the Frankie's exclusives. I recently saw the pre-sale for the Coipel ASM, which I thought was a cool variant and worth the extra spend for the wall-appeal, but I didn't opt for a slabbed copy and will be having my own vendor handle the pressing, and I can submit myself and more easily track the progress. CBCS has money-back guarantee on turn-around which I'll probably be using to grade it.
While it is certainly possible that some orders from Hotshot were affected by things like CGC extended delays and/or in-house pressing wait times, that seems improbable to explain the breadth of this phenomenon and the span of time and multiple orders it affects. Keep in mind that Doug himself verified that CGC is holding orders and has been, presumably, for some time as it wen to collections, too. Also about the CBCS TAT guarantee, it's too bad they changed that to a paid extra fee (since only express orders are guaranteed, you'd start at $40 fee for a new book and up to $60 fore a vintage worth less than $1,000). It's not a huge deal but it didn't do enough to incentivize me to submit with CBCS again and it seems like a half-step back after a really positive full step forward when they launched the guaranteed promo.
You beware Isom #2
I submit directly to CGC but I've been following this story on the CGC boards. Big props to CGC for intervening especially CGC Mike (the chat board monitor) for going ABOVE AND BEYOND to resolve the issue.
5 minutes into the video and i still have no idea what the scam is or what you're gettin at
Why are your fingernails painted white?
Is this an old story? It looked like most of the comments they reviewed were at least a year old?
Is this Ashville company even still in business? It sounds like they took orders then shut down without refunding anyone? Is their physical store still running normally?
And evidently they only OPENED in July 2021, so looks like they've been getting complaints since they started business! lol
I can't imagine that this place could still be taking any online orders with so many complaints from people who never got things they paid for a year ago?
@@ncbarbarian Wow, so they're still taking online orders for new merchandise? I can't believe anyone would still order from the place when it looks like they've been getting bad reviews ever since they opened!
Wait! This wasn’t a real episode? Deep fake AI singularity!
Really miss your regular tropes series boo hoo
I'm not refering to this case, but people should stop using the pandemic as an excuse.
Maybe next time start the video with what the scam is instead of 10 plus minutes into the video.
What is this video about? You don't explain anything. Do you realize that you didn't actually explain what is happening or what is an issue.
Huh? They both explain what’s going on in the video
Bro wants to blame their own ignorance on other people 💀
@@Bryan-gy2zu I watched the video one and a half times and still have no idea what it's about so no that's not true. Please explain what this store is doing that's so bad. Not once is that explained.
@@-Teague- well considering you talk like you're 12 I'm certain your idiotic opinion is not valid bro.
@@archmage7813 customers are submitting their comic books to a comic store to be graded by CGC. Dozens of them haven’t received their books or updates even after the expected delay; some have been waiting nearly two years or more. People have contacted the owner of the comic store and received nasty messages from him or been dodged. CGC is working to resolve the issue.
Could have been a 20 minute video.
As an old man who still mourns the death of coolness and curses them Gen Z folks on a daily basis, (for murdering rock music with the damn hip hop and pop country) I always KNEW there had to be potentially shady aspects of this whole advanced system of gradings which are essentially attempting to stretch an absolute. With perfection being a verbal symbol for the concept of something attaining the highest level of positive it can while still being a physical object bound by the laws of physics. When I was a kid, you simply grabbed the newest Overstreet guide (new meant that it said the current year on the cover) and looked at the price for a Mint copy of whatever you were looking for and BAM! You had completed the first part of your journey. You knew what, if you could find it, it was going to set you back. Now you damn kids have completely upended the apple cart with your damn perfect point more perfect ratings and chemical baths. It's like you damn millennials have turned comic collecting into a scene from "Death Becomes Her" (a brilliant Robert Zemeckis film you're too young to know of) and I knew in my cynical base line worldview that there must be shenanigans, and thanks to Chris, my old man suspicions are confirmed and vindicated 🤘🤘🤘🤘 However, I didn't know that there were sometimes people standing between the customer and the CGC. That's an obvious red flag. Who are these middle men? The Catholic Church of comic collecting?🤣😂😂🤣🤣 No wonder corruption has become an issue! This concludes my smug old man rant👍 PS, Chris you ARE spreading the word, and as Frank Castle would immediately notice, giving physical locations of the bad actors 😉 PPS Chris is NOT suggesting that you chuck a hubcap through the window of anyone's store! That would be a childish, not funny and inexcusable thing to do at the completely accurate physical coordinates which will take you directly to the store front of the bad guys.
95% of gen z absolutely hates pop country, lol. Besides there's still good rock music coming out, ever listened to The Interrupters?
First
Well done.
First.
Fifth you mean.
Years ago, American Entertainment (who are now defunct, and glad they are) had back issue listings in their catalogue, and they had listed Uncanny X-MEN 221-223 (first full appearance of Mr. Sinister, 2nd battle with Marauders) and they were going for a reasonable price. My dad gave me the money, got a money order, sent it out.
I never saw those issues, to this day.
I don't know if anyone else had an experience like that with American Entertainment, but I'm glad they're gone. Ripping off anyone is bad, but ripping off a kid? Low.
Yeah, I've recently been discovering that most of those old Comic Shop ads were basically just printing listings directly from the Comic Book Price Guide, and none of those ads had ANY correlation to what the store actually had in stock, or what they'd charge...
Apparently Mile High comics was the same way, but at least their ads specifically ask people to make ALTERNATE selections 'just in case' their first choices aren't in stock...
And I read about someone who ordered the Hulk #181 for $12 every month for a year, but SURPRISINGLY NEVER received a copy. lol They'd also try their best to give you a 'rain cheque' or 'store credit' rather than ever refunding any CASH! lol
It's cool how mature and even handed Chris is with this stuff. (I myself would be screaming red faced with spittle flying Alex Jones style). You know to even do an episode which is going to ruffle feathers he damn well did his research, but like right off the bat he actually brings in an topical expert, so yeah... it's a scam.
Finally someone with a mass following in the comic community covered this subject.Thank you Comic Tropes.Spread the word people HotShot comics is a SCAM.
I never would have known about this if not for this video. Thank you both.
Thanks for the heads up. I will avoid this comic shop like the plague.
This shit plagues the VHS and retro video game market as well its awful.
Here in the US, another resource besides the BBB is your state's Dept. of Justice Consumer Protection division. You can find filed complaints databases, specifics on your state's fraud laws and a place to file consumer complaints online.
I wonder if cgc is partly to blame for this. Maybe thats why they are shipping books directly to customers, not out of kindness, but to cover any potential liability.
Was hot shot/asheville comics a cgc authorized dealer? What sort of screening/verification process does cgc do? Customers are under the impression that cgc has vetted/screened these businesses and they are trusted partners. Sure the small print says cgc is unaffiliated and not liable. So is the name "cgc authorized dealer" just given out to anyone? It sounds like the owner has had business problems dating back to at least when they owned "Haywood Comics" (2015-2018ish).
I would be curious to see what the claim form from cgc says. I'm guessing you have to sign some sort of nda/waiver that you forfeit your right to sue CGC.
The form is very generic there’s no legal language attached to it. It’s basically name, order date, what did you order and then a copy of your reciept
@@CollectingWeekly awesome, thank you for that update.
Thanks. I live an hour away from asheville, but both there shops.are on my ussual rotation. They lost my buisness.
Good commentary, Chris, and the general reasonability advice was a good choice. Hope one day you can cover Frazer Brown's TFTQ kickstarter scam
No wonder they are known as HotShit comics!
Sounds a lot like the guy that runs Piko interactive. The guy who buys licenses to terrible super nintendo games like Super Noah's Ark 3D and then attempts to redistribute them. He's had some history of pretending to be different people to distribute his items and shift blame whenever they can't fulfill orders
Thanks for this.
Thank you for alerting the community to this issue.