People make a big deal out of Sauron and Gandalf both being Maiar. Guess what? Mike Tyson and I are both human. I wouldn't fight him on purpose unless the fate of the entire Earth depended on it, and only then if you let me bring 8 other people (and a sword) with me to that fight. So... It tracks.
Take that analogy, now consider you each having the power of, say, Superman. The last time the Valar and Maiar intervened in Middle Earth, they literally tore it up and rearranged it simply as a side effect of their combat. Gandalf was given orders to not directly engage for two reasons. The main reason being to avoid a repeat of that level of devastation. The secondary reason was to let mortals sort things out by themselves as much as possible.
As Maiar before they Nerfed Gandalf they were on level ground. I would be a bit afraid myself if my opponent wasn’t given limitations that were put on myself and the other Istari.
@@ledflaplin2001 It is not completely clear if the limitations on Gandalf were reductions in his actual power or reductions in his actual authority. After all, Saruman was the White before Gandalf was promoted to that status. So it could just be a recognition of him being placed in charge and giving more leeway
In my opinion Gandalf feared the power and knowledge Sauron could tempt him with. That’s why he was actually ideal to go the the middle earth: he was aware of his own limitations. Saruman, who was mightier than him, fell to the wiles of Sauron in the end, or why Radagast fell in love with the land itself, distancing himself from his purpose (of the blue mages we don’t know enough to formulate an hypothesis although they were sent directly into the lands Sauron controlled so their task was actually more difficult than that of the other Istari).
Saruman never fell to the will of Sauron. He was pretending to help him while at the same time trying to get the ring for himself. For his part Sauron was on to him, he even sent the Nazgul to Isengard when he thought Satuman had the ring. They were both playing each other.
Manwe was the leader of the Valar for a reason. He commanded Olorin to go because he was the right being for the job. The right mixture of wisdom, compassion and humility. Strong enough to do the job, but wise and humble enough not to succumb to its temptations.
Olorin was not "strong" actually. He said he is weaker than a terribly diminished Sauron of the third age. which means: Crippled Sauron> Olorin(Gandalf's true form)
@@_semih_ Gandalf in HIS diminished form as an Istari beat a Balrog In single combat. Balrogs were so terrifying because they were fallen Maiar who were powerful enough to give even the Valar second thoughts about taking one on. So let’s not get it twisted about how powerful Olorin was. Olorin’s misgivings were an expression of his humility and his wisdom. Which is PRECISELY why Manwe wanted him there, and commanded him to go. Because, ultimately, Olorin was the only one of the five Istari who stayed on mission and helped to guide the free peoples to the defeat of Sauron. While Radegast was not corrupted, he only did Yavenna’s will in protecting Nature. Saruman fell…and the blue wizards disappeared and were probably corrupted as well. So demanding that Olorin go was arguably one of the best decisions Manwe made as leader of the Valar. Which is why Iluvatar Himself sent him back when Gandalf fell defeating the Balrog.
@@kellygreenii Where the hell did you get the idea that the Valar had second thoughts about taking on Balrogs? Every balrog on-screen died to an elf-lord (Gothmog was tackled off a cliff and strangled to death in a fountain by Ecthelion, for instance). The balrogs were considered lesser than Sauron by Tolkien.
@@LordMortanius From The Silmarillion itself. “Balrog” is the Sindarin name for these powerful Maiar spirits. The Quenya name for them is “Valaraukar”. “They Who Emerge in Might/Power.” Melkor made a point of corrupting the most powerful Maiar spirits to his side, and adding them to his side. Lastly the early generation elf-lords (especially Feanor) were extremely powerful. Fingolfin took on Melkor himself (the most powerful of all the Ainur) in single combat, and dealt him a permanent injury. Gil-galad took Sauron (at full might WITH the One Ring) and defeated him. The statement that Balrogs were so powerful that even the Valar would have second thought about taking one on says what it means. The Valar would likely win, but it would not be an easy fight to win. Which is why Gandalf (Olorin) taking on even a lesser Balrog (Durin’s Bane) in his diminished state as an Istari was both courageous and a mark of desperation. His defeating it was impressive…and probably part of the reason why Iluvatar Himself intervened and sent him back as the much more powerful Gandalf The White.
Gandalf the wise. Gandalf was weakened, old, but still beat a Balrog one on one, and still feared Sauron. Sauron's biggest weapons, as shown in the Akallabêth, was the arrogance of his enemies. Gandalf was not arrogant.
Olórin; Many are my names in many countries: Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Dwarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.
I believe that Olorin feared Sauron because he was afraid that Sauron could overcome his wisdom and corrupt him. He was afraid that Sauron's unfettered power would be able to destroy his spirit and turn him into another servant of darkness. Saruman was corrupted through the palantir and if Gandalf has been in his place no amount of wisdom could have save him either. He was afraid because he could not contend with the will of Sauron as an Istari and perhaps not even as a Maiar because Sauron had ages of tools and experience on his side.
I agree to this. Sauron was able to deceive the Noldor, and corrupt the Numenorians, and as a Spiritual being, I assume, this nay have been the reason for his fear.
The Valar were very wise in foreseeing that sending the Istari in their true forms would have been a bad idea because one or all of them could have eventually followed in Sauron's path. Saruman being the biggest example of that. What could Saruman have accomplished if he came to Middle Earth in his full power? What he achieved in his weakened state was incredible. He would have been a true rival to Sauron had he his full power.
I personally think you overestimate him, Sauron was still much more powerful than Sauroman even in his true form. Remember what he said only one maia truly possessed the power of Sauron and neither of those 5 were it. The only common thing was that they were Maiar but it’s also where the comparison ends. Sauroman might have rival Sauron without the ring, but with it the power difference would have been immense. No one could control the one ring other then Sauron himself, as the ring was the essence of him, anyone who took it would be corrupted and through them the ring will gain power using them as a vessels to do its bidding with was that of Sauron, eventually however the ring would abandon them to get back to its masters hand as Souron could not be truly defeated as long the ring existed. The Ring belonged to Sauron and Sauron alone, only he can truly control it. Gandalf understood this unlike the other Istari’s. His knowledge, his humble nature was why he was chosen. The reason they didn’t go in true form was the fear they to would be corrupted, not as much whether they would take his place. Only together in their true strength where the Sauron equals, it would have required their combined strength to overthrow him and would still have required the destruction of the one ring. If any of them instead took the ring as their own Sauron would endure and the ring would eventually find a way to his hand. While even if they overthrow him and destroyed the ring and one eventually got corrupted it would have poses a lesser evil simply because the new lord would be far less powerful and could rather easily been overthrown by the remaining 4
I wonder if it is nothing more simple than the draw of absolute power, the personal cost of taking it, and the fear of a wise man. After all, Galadriel passed her test. Frodo and Bilbo resisted the sway of the one ring long enough to ensure its destruction. Admittedly from the movies but "Understand Frodo, I would use this Ring from a desire to do good. But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine". I have no doubt placing himself in Saurons' sway willing or not, would bring about exactly the same end..
The power, greed, and evil of Sauron was forged into the ring. That's why his defeat and ending of his physical form didn't destroy him. That corruption effect all who wear the ring. To wear it allowed the corruption to seep in, and overtake you. That is why Frodo taking it to Mount Doom, and Gollum (Smeagol) falling into the Cracks of Doom was the only thing g that could defeat and destroy Sauron. Sauron thought to make himself indestructible by putting so much of himself into the ring. He just never thought anyone could resist its evil and corruption, and destroy it. Tolkien talks about the remarkable resistance to evil of Hobbits, and "The Enemy" can't see that, or comprehend it. To his ultimate doom.
@@JohnDoe-rj9cq Agreed...among the things the wise are wise about is knowing their own weaknesses/vulnerabilities (i.e. they are well-armed against overconfidence)
Why was Olorin chosen to stand for Middle-Earth even after stating that he was not worthy for the task? Olorin, being the antithesis of Sauron would be adventitious for the set task perfectly. Olorin's logic was the opposite of Sauron's, leaving Sauron to match Olorin not understanding compassion and patience. That is an overt theme in the books. Sauron acts with fear and haste. He can't fathom the strategy of Olorin. Sauron didn't see it all coming the way it happened, did he? Manwe may also have had the thought: The one who strives for the greater of all without seeking self-serving power is the individual who is best suited to lead. A grasping Sauron or even Curumo should never be trusted with leadership.
"The one who strives for the greater [good] of all without seeking self-serving power is the individual who is best suited to lead." That same theme is clear in the film treatment of Aragorn as well. In many ways I see that as true in our place and time -- the humble one who doesn't seek aggrandizement is a good statesman.
I think Manwë's desire to have Olorin onboard was only reinforced by what Olorin said, for several reasons. First of all, Manwë knew that Sauron should indeed be feared. And being among the wisest of maia, Olorin's fear was not based on some kind of abject terror, but a very precise understanding of how deceptive Sauron could be, and was not honestly sure he could resist Sauron's temptations. This kind of introspection was exactly was Manwë was looking forward. He wanted the Istari to fear Sauron, and that in order for their project to succeed, they would also have to lucidly realize that the success was not guaranteed - and why. So Olorin exemplified wisdom (in identifying the true and exact nature of the threat caused by Sauron), honesty (in admitting the fear), and courage (in stating his fears publicly). This made Olorin exactly the maia Manwë recognized as the most exemplary. Not only for the other Istari, but also for elves, mortal men and dwarves.
As their power was equal their entry into the world would not go unnoticed. If their strength is not muted the elves, dwarves and men would rely on them to much, and if an when the left it would create another vacuum. Making it seem that even the wizard were challenged when fight Sauron's forces it would rally allies which fought against the same enemy. Gandolf was the living embodiment of hope, which keeps many fighting. Something that Gandolf would always tell those around him to hold out and never give up.
Great video. I always appreciate people taking the time to explain the meat of The Silmarillion to the many, many people who love LOTR but aren't constitutionally cut out for that tome lol.
I tried reading Simarilion. But there are so many made up names I lost track of what was who and when was up. It’s still on the drawer beside my bed taunting me to torture myself again.
I tend to think it was corruption which Olorin/Gandalf feared. That corruption which had come from Melkor, twisted Mairon into Sauron and of which the latter was, by then, the greatest source in Middle Earth. Perhaps it was a dim forseeing of the fate of Saruman and a concern he, too, might fall.
Dragon, what an interesting viewpoint regading Olorin's fear ( in Maia form) of Sauron and his almost limitless power over middle Earth. Also your view on Manwe limiting the Maia's power and recreating them as Istari with a very narrow function in the 3A.
As far as Gandalf fearing Sauron directly, he had respect for Sauron's power level, understanding not merely the consequences of directly engaging, but also respect for the nature of Sauron's power, namely corruption. Respect for that specific aspect of Sauron's power was also Gandalf's stated reason for not personally carrying the ring. As for the Valar's reasons for instructing him to not engage directly, their primary concern was stated as being a reaction to the devastation that direct conflict caused in Middle Earth in the 1st Age, when they engaged Melkor and his forces (which included Sauron) personally.
It's amazing how this part of Olorin / Gandalf 's life seems inspired by the Biblical character Jacob (son of Isaac, grandson of Abraham). He too had huge issues finding the courage to face his "evil" twin brother Esav and is the character who basically has the most direct insurances from God that he could do it. Jacob btw is also a founding father for the hebrew people. Just a thought that came to my mind watching the video...
Imagine how Tolkien would feel about A.I. not watching anything that uses AI voice or generated images of a subject that has limitless artwork made by real people.
When the narrator said ,“Seeing as our world is the same world that was once middle earth…” I got completely freaked out for a couple seconds because the thought of Sauron and Morgoth potentially being able to see me made me trip out. Damn this Trainwreck is blowing my mind. I highly recommend it when you are wanting to really enjoy and get into any LOTR or Tolkien lore. Best Sativa Dominant Strain out there! I’d have to say that Fruity Pebbles is my Favorite Hybrid and Afghani-Kush or Northern Lights are my favorite Indica dominant hybrids.
The Maiar had rank and Sauron was of a much higher order than Olorin (Gandalf). Also, they were forbidden from trying to gain power or fight Sauron directly, but to inspire and mentor the races of middle earth to fight Sauron, not to seek to rule in their own right.
Ah enfin Thingol. Je l'aime bien ce perso qui de très sage et avisé, marié à la plus sage des Maiar tombe malheureusement sous la malédiction de Mandos. Il faut toujours écouter les conseils et les avis de sa femme surtout si elle s'appelle Melian. Bonne vidéo comme toujours.
It’s simple why he feared him. Truly wise and gentle people know they are vulnerable to corruption just like everyone else. They fear it because if the fall to it they lose all that hold dear, they will no longer be wise or gentle. It means to devolve and operate from the lowest possible place. Last, wisdom and gentleness is grown from inside. It can’t be made, traded or taken. Both are rare and too precious to risk. That’s why he was afraid, he loved what he had grown to become and didn’t want to be anything other than what he was… I think Manwe knew that Gandalf would be just fine because he knew Gandalf had grown so much that he had endlessness of spirit and as long as he was needed he would come back❤ to his friends.
Both Maiar, but the Ishtari had much of their power stripped away when they were allowed to travel to M-E. They were to lead and inspire men, dwarves and elves to defeat Sauron, not to do so themselves. Gandalf does not 'fear' Sauron, but he respects the difference in power between them. (He had a hard enough time with the 'corrupted' Maiar which was the Balrog.)
Nope. The reason why Olórin feared Sauron is because they were both primarily Maia of Aulë. Gandalf feared he was too weak and he would be seduced by darkness like Sauron was. The big man chose Olórin precisely because of this; That fear would make him cautious.
i wonder if magneto would have had an absolutely trivial time finding and destroying the ring. along with decimating sauron's armies. (assuming he was a good dude.)
The Valar were not so wonderful. They let Feanor get robbed of his Silmarils, made from his own essence, by an evil Ainur/Valar (Melkor/Morgoth), and exiled Feanor and his followers for trying to get them back. Miffed at Feanor, they let middle earth suffer at evil Ainur/Valar (Melkor/Morgoth) and Maiar (Balrogs) hands for many centuries without intervention.
The answer is pretty simple, because Sauron would whooooooopppppp Gandalf lol. Even in his weakened state in the War of the Ring without the one, Sauron would still pretty much kick everyone's ass lol. But Sauron isn't a brute like Morgoth. He uses deception and force of numbers to win his battles without needing to do it himself. He only came out of Bara-Dur at the end of the War of the Last Alliance because it had been seven year siege of his fortress and things got desperate for him so he came out to confront everyone.
I don't think so. Remember in the second age when Ar-Pharazon the golden literally made Sauron now down when he saw his might? And he was a mortal, plus Gandalf was not allowed to use his full power in Middle Earth. If given a level playing field I think Gandalf could take Sauron.
@@richardsanchez5444 That's was in the Second Age. We're talking about Gandalf who arrived on Middle Earth in the Third Age in the old man weakened form. So we're talking about the present time of the events of LOTR. So at that time Gandalf was afraid of Sauron and rightly so. He was forbidden to use his full might and was in a weakened human state. Sauron has regained much of his power (even without the one ring) by the time the War of the Ring started. None on Middle Earth could stand against him. Sauron only feared the major powers like Aragorn, Saruman, Galadriel, and even Gandalf if they found the one ring and used it's power. Even though the ring would have corrupted them eventually, it would have given them enough power to challenge him. And on an even playing field, Gandalf might be able to challenge Sauron, but he'd still lose. Sauron was one of, if not the most powerful Maiar that had ever existed. Gandalf was strong, but not on the same level as Sauron. Saruman would probably have given him more a run for his money on an even playing field than Gandalf would. Lastly, Sauron only surrendered to Ar-Pharazon because he knew he couldn't defeat the Numenoreans in military combat. Not because he feared Ar-Pharazon. He did it as a cunning plan of deceit to infiltrate Nuemenor and corrupt them from within.
@@andrewvincent7299 both Sauron and Gandalf were Maia I think they were both pretty even. Gandalf pretty much nerfed himself in a human body, with all those handicaps yeah sauron takes it but everything being equal I'm going with Gandalf. Especially when he becomes Gandalf the white.
@@richardsanchez5444 Yes, they were both Maiar but they differed in power. Sauron was more powerful than Gandalf even in his normal form. Despite Gandalf being granted white wizard, he was still forbidden to use his full strength. The Istari were all made to be old men human forms because that limited their power because the Valar feared one or all may stray and in their full power, Middle Earth would have to deal with another corrupted full strength Maiar. They were also made to be the old men form because it was never intended for them to outright challenge and fight Sauron, but to rally the people's of Middle Earth to stand against Sauron themselves. They believed wizened old men would be listened to and followed more than anything else. But regardless of that, the original question was, why was Gandalf afraid of Sauron. Because with all his handicaps and Sauron also being one of the most powerful Maiar, he knew he wouldn't stand a chance against him.
@@andrewvincent7299 yeah I agree as things were in the book Gandalf would be screwed but if they were both in their original forms Gandalf comes out on top.
My thought is Gandalf knew his game was in wisdom, thoughtfulness and planning. He prob respected Sauron's intellect and cunning and felt he would likely be outmatched or equaled by Sauron even in his own area of expertise. In sporting terms he probably felt he was a bad matchup. In the end he undervalued just how much he could bring to the table.
Its normal to fear ambitious beings infatuated by power. Especially if you are a being who represents peace love sorrow and mercy. Everything Myron was becoming is everything that stands in direct contrast of what the Maiar was supposed to be and Olorin was wise so his fear was in the end a Vital Tool
Sauron's corruptive force is based on tempting powerful individuals who feel they could really use more power to do whatever it is they needed to do, especially if there was external pressure. Boromir was heavily tempted to save Gondor as the elder son who had all the pressure on him. Faramir, the ignored brother, had no such external pressure and thus was able to let the hobbit ringbearers go. Saruman, who struggled between having his own agenda or still be good, was greatly corrupted by Sauron via the palantir. Gandalf, who had the entire fate of Middle Earth and was the main operator in Middle Earth who went between the factions of all the races to prevent Sauron would be very susceptible to Sauron's corrupting influence. Gandalf The Grey couldn't even beat Saruman The White, let alone Sauron.
I always took it that the Fear was not of what people initially think The fear is that Melkor and anything he touched, turned putrid, including the most noble like Sauron, and it *spreads* and Olorin was not wrong, it happened to Saruman. Heck, as an example, even just _touching_ the One Ring corrupted Maiar's souls that wanted nothing to do with it. It was a HUGE risk to even attempt this mission.
I'm missing a lot here. Why did the plan to send three change into a plan to send 5? Also, what happened to the other 3? I thought there was only Gandalf and Saruman in the Lord of the Rings. I am more confused now than I was before.
I always thought his fear came from the corruption Sauron could cause. He feared the use of the ring for this reason so it would make sense he feared direct corruption too. Aswell as the reasons mentioned here.
The problem with the thesis here is that the Istari were specifically designed to have less than Sauron. Even if Olorin was also a Maia, in middle earth they had less power.
Sauron, much like Melkor, weakened himself by investing much of his power and essence into his creations. Combined with some diminishing due to previous defeats, I believe that Sauron was not nearly at full strength, either. Still formidable, of course.
Also in a dying world so there was less essence to draw from unless you cast away your physical raiment and kept your tether connected to Eru like Melian and Even Olórin did much can be done. Elves have also less inhibiting them and they always had more head of them. Destinies of sorts. In some ways surpassed the Valar. Sometimes the more powerful you are the more inhibited you are. Side note. Ainur really found it hard to reform a new body. Takes years upon years. They disliked losing their bodies especially in battle or to be a naked soul before another ainur or anyone else. Much of why gorthaur>Sauron let Lùthien banish him away from Taur Ín Gaurhoth.
@Makkaru112 The 2 towers reaperance of Gandalf refutes this notion of the Ainur taking years to take physical form as does the appearance of all the Istari. Tolkien may have hated allegory but he leaves no question that the Ainur are the equivalent of Biblical angels with all their hierarchies. The Istari were in fact low cast angels that were given human form. Also Arda (Earth) wasn't a dying planet by any stretch of the imagination.
Everyone was afraid of Sauron qnd what he represented but i thought he was afraid of Saroman more! Perhaps perceiving the possibility of confliction in saromans heart over obtaining great power!
Sauron was willing to exert his full power on mankind, whereas Gandalf was charged with nudging mortals and inspiring them to be their best. If the Valar had given Gandalf to act directly, as Sauron did, the battle would be over. The point is that Gandalf was sent to aid the men of the west to be their best, to not despair, not to defeat Sauron directly. The song at the beginning had to play out.
fear - to have a appropriate respect and apprehension for the danger involved in the task at hand - that is a very wise position, and in keeping with Ólorin/Gandalf's character. ever the pragmatist.
I mean, having a non-zero chance of having to face the current big baddie, who's at the same time the chief captain of the whole legendarium's big baddie, who's really pissed off after losing his ring, who's the greatest craftsman ever to step over middle earth and who probably helped Morgoth corrupt other races including Maiar themselves? Yeah, I wouldn't be thrilled, and even though Gandalf in his white form is likely orders of magnitude above GTG, he's somehow still below Sauron without his ring.
Friendly challenge: It does not say in silmarillion that the Istari(Wizards) changed thier form or were not allowed to use their powers. Long Quote(Sorry)..... " Even as the first shadows were felt in Mirkwood there appeared in the West of Middle Earth the Istari whom men called Wizards. None knew time whence they came save Cirdan of the havens, and only to Elrond and to Galadriel did he reveal that they came over the sea. But afterwards it was said among the elves that they were messengers sent by the Lords of the West to contest the power of Sauron, if he should rise again and to move helps and men and all living things of goodwill to valiant deeds. In the likeness of men they appeared old but vigorous, and they changed little with the years, and aged slowly though cares lay on them; great wisdom they had, and many powers of mind and hand. Long they journeyed far and wide among elves and men and held converse also with beasts and with birds; and the peoples of Middle Earth gave them many names for their true names they did not reveal. " Where in Silmarillion does it say they changd their forms or left any power behind ? Again, this is a friendly challenge. Have a nice day everyone😁
With early-3rd-age Sauron diminished by his power going into the ring, then diminished again by drowning in Numenor, how easy would it be for the Istari to capture him, rather than driving him out? Seems a better solution.
I think you missed the lot completely on why Ólorin was afraid and why that made him the perfect candidate. As a maiar he couldn't die and pain meant little. What he was afraid of was being tempted and turning to evil. That is why he was the perfect person to send. All but two of the maiar that were sent were corrupted.
Morgoth had more raw power …. Even Sauron bent the knee to him . Had no choice but to call him master…. But ! Sauron was cunning and vile . He had everything Morgoth didn’t . Just not as dark or destructive in actual power and abilities but he was powerful enough for when Morgoth fell ! That no one could truly match his strength but the gods…… Would be amazing if they brought back lord of the rings not the hobbit but the actual lord of the rings and it’s about them trying to stop Morgoth from being resurrected
What if Olorin fear that Sauron would corrupt him to evil? He wasn't afraid of the physical but the spiritual. That Sauron could turn him into something he despised.
Exactly. Its the exact opposite! Tolkien said that Sauron was far higher order than both Saruman and Gandalf. They were basically low tier Maiar while Sauron was a High tier Maia.
Unfinished Tales, Chapter: The Istari "'Who would go? For they must be mighty, peers of Sauron, but must forgo might, and clothe themselves in flesh so as to treat on equality and win the trust of Elves and Men"
@@middleearthtalesa classroom full of students are peers, but you have the real smart ones, the jocks, and the kid in the corner picking his nose and eating it.
At the risk of being dumb, and hurting what supposed to be, in the end, a good story, was "death" really that big of a risk for the Istari? I can sit here and troop out my usual whines of what Eru Illuvatar did, or wouldn't do, to stop what amounted to one rogue angel, despite other times He acted wirh much greater oomph, and directness, but He obviously WASN'T going to just let Middle Earth fall into ruin, or He probably wouldn't have sent the Wizards, anyway.as Maia, they don't "die" in the typical sense, and He was obviously willing to send Gandalf back, even after the Grey Pilgrim was legitimately slain. Some aspect of His plan compelled Him to say "F--- it!", and send Olorin back. Similarly, though Elves don't frequently get fast-tracked back to life, after a certain amount of time on the Halls of Mandos, they fo come back, and Glorfindel even did so quickly, for reasons, so despite us never seeing the Blue Wizards, and no one in verse seeing them again, if they had died, is there a reason we can't imagine Eru Illuvatar basically refreshing, and redispatching, the Wizards as many times as it took? Sure, when Sauron lost his body, there were times it took a long time to get one back, but his power was scattered, and he worked in defiance of Illuvatar. God can just "wave his hands", and we get Gandalf back, so is there a reason to think THEIR failure would be what it took to just get Illuvatar to accept the bad ending, leave Middle Earth to its fate, and move onto a new project, or would He continue to tinker, even while refraining to fix things more directly, and just keep a Gandalf on it till it worked, since he is immortal?
If Gandalf were to confront Sauron and give battle, that would go against his advisory role. There were a lot of things from which the Istari were to refrain, rather than try to solve the problems of the humans, elves, and dwarves for them. He was specifically forbidden to do their fighting for them. In a way, dealing with Sauron was a "Not my job" situation for Gandalf and all the wizards.
But it turns out it was Olorin (Gandalf) who steadfastly fought Sauron up until the very end unlike his Istari co beings who didn't accomplished their tasks.
I think Gandalf is afraid of the ambitions Sauron has. Gandalf have no ambitions towards the Sauron problem, while Sauron is doing this for his ambitions and to be honest; This is Saurons lifes work.
People make a big deal out of Sauron and Gandalf both being Maiar. Guess what? Mike Tyson and I are both human. I wouldn't fight him on purpose unless the fate of the entire Earth depended on it, and only then if you let me bring 8 other people (and a sword) with me to that fight. So... It tracks.
Take that analogy, now consider you each having the power of, say, Superman. The last time the Valar and Maiar intervened in Middle Earth, they literally tore it up and rearranged it simply as a side effect of their combat. Gandalf was given orders to not directly engage for two reasons. The main reason being to avoid a repeat of that level of devastation. The secondary reason was to let mortals sort things out by themselves as much as possible.
What if you were to identify as a guy who could beat Tyson? 😐
As Maiar before they Nerfed Gandalf they were on level ground. I would be a bit afraid myself if my opponent wasn’t given limitations that were put on myself and the other Istari.
@@ledflaplin2001 It is not completely clear if the limitations on Gandalf were reductions in his actual power or reductions in his actual authority. After all, Saruman was the White before Gandalf was promoted to that status. So it could just be a recognition of him being placed in charge and giving more leeway
Not sure Tyson is human.
In my opinion Gandalf feared the power and knowledge Sauron could tempt him with. That’s why he was actually ideal to go the the middle earth: he was aware of his own limitations. Saruman, who was mightier than him, fell to the wiles of Sauron in the end, or why Radagast fell in love with the land itself, distancing himself from his purpose (of the blue mages we don’t know enough to formulate an hypothesis although they were sent directly into the lands Sauron controlled so their task was actually more difficult than that of the other Istari).
This...
I agree with this.
I mean, Gandalf's fears about the One Ring are that it would corrupt him.
I believe this is actually the canon reasoning.
Saruman never fell to the will of Sauron. He was pretending to help him while at the same time trying to get the ring for himself. For his part Sauron was on to him, he even sent the Nazgul to Isengard when he thought Satuman had the ring. They were both playing each other.
Agreed imo.
Manwe was the leader of the Valar for a reason. He commanded Olorin to go because he was the right being for the job. The right mixture of wisdom, compassion and humility.
Strong enough to do the job, but wise and humble enough not to succumb to its temptations.
Olorin was not "strong" actually. He said he is weaker than a terribly diminished Sauron of the third age. which means: Crippled Sauron> Olorin(Gandalf's true form)
@@_semih_ Gandalf in HIS diminished form as an Istari beat a Balrog In single combat. Balrogs were so terrifying because they were fallen Maiar who were powerful enough to give even the Valar second thoughts about taking one on.
So let’s not get it twisted about how powerful Olorin was.
Olorin’s misgivings were an expression of his humility and his wisdom. Which is PRECISELY why Manwe wanted him there, and commanded him to go. Because, ultimately, Olorin was the only one of the five Istari who stayed on mission and helped to guide the free peoples to the defeat of Sauron. While Radegast was not corrupted, he only did Yavenna’s will in protecting Nature. Saruman fell…and the blue wizards disappeared and were probably corrupted as well.
So demanding that Olorin go was arguably one of the best decisions Manwe made as leader of the Valar. Which is why Iluvatar Himself sent him back when Gandalf fell defeating the Balrog.
@@kellygreeniiwell said
@@kellygreenii Where the hell did you get the idea that the Valar had second thoughts about taking on Balrogs? Every balrog on-screen died to an elf-lord (Gothmog was tackled off a cliff and strangled to death in a fountain by Ecthelion, for instance). The balrogs were considered lesser than Sauron by Tolkien.
@@LordMortanius From The Silmarillion itself. “Balrog” is the Sindarin name for these powerful Maiar spirits. The Quenya name for them is “Valaraukar”. “They Who Emerge in Might/Power.”
Melkor made a point of corrupting the most powerful Maiar spirits to his side, and adding them to his side.
Lastly the early generation elf-lords (especially Feanor) were extremely powerful. Fingolfin took on Melkor himself (the most powerful of all the Ainur) in single combat, and dealt him a permanent injury. Gil-galad took Sauron (at full might WITH the One Ring) and defeated him.
The statement that Balrogs were so powerful that even the Valar would have second thought about taking one on says what it means. The Valar would likely win, but it would not be an easy fight to win.
Which is why Gandalf (Olorin) taking on even a lesser Balrog (Durin’s Bane) in his diminished state as an Istari was both courageous and a mark of desperation. His defeating it was impressive…and probably part of the reason why Iluvatar Himself intervened and sent him back as the much more powerful Gandalf The White.
Gandalf the wise. Gandalf was weakened, old, but still beat a Balrog one on one, and still feared Sauron. Sauron's biggest weapons, as shown in the Akallabêth, was the arrogance of his enemies. Gandalf was not arrogant.
I wonder how Frodo and Bilbo reacted when Gandalf (Olorin, Mithrandir) appeared to them in his "natural" form in Valinor
I was wondering that same thing.
"Dude,you look different naked" :)
How would he look ?
@@MartijnvanderHageprobably very fair and beautiful to look at.
He didn't. Once a Maia relinquishes their spirit form, they can never go back.
Olórin; Many are my names in many countries: Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Dwarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.
Which begs the question - why didn't he just tell people his name? Less dramatic I suppose.....
I believe that Olorin feared Sauron because he was afraid that Sauron could overcome his wisdom and corrupt him. He was afraid that Sauron's unfettered power would be able to destroy his spirit and turn him into another servant of darkness. Saruman was corrupted through the palantir and if Gandalf has been in his place no amount of wisdom could have save him either. He was afraid because he could not contend with the will of Sauron as an Istari and perhaps not even as a Maiar because Sauron had ages of tools and experience on his side.
I agree to this. Sauron was able to deceive the Noldor, and corrupt the Numenorians, and as a Spiritual being, I assume, this nay have been the reason for his fear.
I agree, especially as empathy was one of Olorin's defining traits. Something Sauron would have been able to manipulate.
I agree that Gandalf feared he might be susceptible to Sauron’s corruption but I think Gandalf underestimated himself.
Great video, very good explanations, nicely done.
The Valar were very wise in foreseeing that sending the Istari in their true forms would have been a bad idea because one or all of them could have eventually followed in Sauron's path. Saruman being the biggest example of that. What could Saruman have accomplished if he came to Middle Earth in his full power? What he achieved in his weakened state was incredible. He would have been a true rival to Sauron had he his full power.
I personally think you overestimate him, Sauron was still much more powerful than Sauroman even in his true form. Remember what he said only one maia truly possessed the power of Sauron and neither of those 5 were it. The only common thing was that they were Maiar but it’s also where the comparison ends. Sauroman might have rival Sauron without the ring, but with it the power difference would have been immense. No one could control the one ring other then Sauron himself, as the ring was the essence of him, anyone who took it would be corrupted and through them the ring will gain power using them as a vessels to do its bidding with was that of Sauron, eventually however the ring would abandon them to get back to its masters hand as Souron could not be truly defeated as long the ring existed. The Ring belonged to Sauron and Sauron alone, only he can truly control it. Gandalf understood this unlike the other Istari’s.
His knowledge, his humble nature was why he was chosen.
The reason they didn’t go in true form was the fear they to would be corrupted, not as much whether they would take his place. Only together in their true strength where the Sauron equals, it would have required their combined strength to overthrow him and would still have required the destruction of the one ring. If any of them instead took the ring as their own Sauron would endure and the ring would eventually find a way to his hand.
While even if they overthrow him and destroyed the ring and one eventually got corrupted it would have poses a lesser evil simply because the new lord would be far less powerful and could rather easily been overthrown by the remaining 4
@@mikni4069who was the one Maia that whose power was greater than Sauron that you mention without identifying ?
I wonder if it is nothing more simple than the draw of absolute power, the personal cost of taking it, and the fear of a wise man. After all, Galadriel passed her test. Frodo and Bilbo resisted the sway of the one ring long enough to ensure its destruction. Admittedly from the movies but "Understand Frodo, I would use this Ring from a desire to do good. But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine". I have no doubt placing himself in Saurons' sway willing or not, would bring about exactly the same end..
It's even worse. Tolkien himself stated that Gandalfs strength of will was great enough that he could have wrenched control of the ring from Sauron
The power, greed, and evil of Sauron was forged into the ring.
That's why his defeat and ending of his physical form didn't destroy him.
That corruption effect all who wear the ring. To wear it allowed the corruption to seep in, and overtake you.
That is why Frodo taking it to Mount Doom, and Gollum (Smeagol) falling into the Cracks of Doom was the only thing g that could defeat and destroy Sauron.
Sauron thought to make himself indestructible by putting so much of himself into the ring.
He just never thought anyone could resist its evil and corruption, and destroy it.
Tolkien talks about the remarkable resistance to evil of Hobbits, and "The Enemy" can't see that, or comprehend it.
To his ultimate doom.
I always thought he was afraid he'd be susceptible to temptation because he was a coplex thinker
I think the concept everyone is missing is it wasn't lack of self confidence, it was a lack of pride and arrogance that Gandalf had. He was humble.
@@JohnDoe-rj9cq Agreed...among the things the wise are wise about is knowing their own weaknesses/vulnerabilities (i.e. they are well-armed against overconfidence)
@@JohnDoe-rj9cq Exactly right and likely the reason he was ordered to go.
This is the reason
Why was Olorin chosen to stand for Middle-Earth even after stating that he was not worthy for the task? Olorin, being the antithesis of Sauron would be adventitious for the set task perfectly. Olorin's logic was the opposite of Sauron's, leaving Sauron to match Olorin not understanding compassion and patience. That is an overt theme in the books. Sauron acts with fear and haste. He can't fathom the strategy of Olorin. Sauron didn't see it all coming the way it happened, did he? Manwe may also have had the thought: The one who strives for the greater of all without seeking self-serving power is the individual who is best suited to lead. A grasping Sauron or even Curumo should never be trusted with leadership.
"The one who strives for the greater [good] of all without seeking self-serving power is the individual who is best suited to lead." That same theme is clear in the film treatment of Aragorn as well. In many ways I see that as true in our place and time -- the humble one who doesn't seek aggrandizement is a good statesman.
I think Manwë's desire to have Olorin onboard was only reinforced by what Olorin said, for several reasons. First of all, Manwë knew that Sauron should indeed be feared. And being among the wisest of maia, Olorin's fear was not based on some kind of abject terror, but a very precise understanding of how deceptive Sauron could be, and was not honestly sure he could resist Sauron's temptations. This kind of introspection was exactly was Manwë was looking forward. He wanted the Istari to fear Sauron, and that in order for their project to succeed, they would also have to lucidly realize that the success was not guaranteed - and why.
So Olorin exemplified wisdom (in identifying the true and exact nature of the threat caused by Sauron), honesty (in admitting the fear), and courage (in stating his fears publicly). This made Olorin exactly the maia Manwë recognized as the most exemplary. Not only for the other Istari, but also for elves, mortal men and dwarves.
As their power was equal their entry into the world would not go unnoticed. If their strength is not muted the elves, dwarves and men would rely on them to much, and if an when the left it would create another vacuum. Making it seem that even the wizard were challenged when fight Sauron's forces it would rally allies which fought against the same enemy. Gandolf was the living embodiment of hope, which keeps many fighting. Something that Gandolf would always tell those around him to hold out and never give up.
Solid work, liked and subscribed.
Very well presented!
Great video. I always appreciate people taking the time to explain the meat of The Silmarillion to the many, many people who love LOTR but aren't constitutionally cut out for that tome lol.
I tried reading Simarilion. But there are so many made up names I lost track of what was who and when was up. It’s still on the drawer beside my bed taunting me to torture myself again.
@@lukeorlando4814 The audiobook helped me because, even if I couldn't keep track of names and places, it was still very enjoyable.
@@jalmodov7817 there is no way I could pay attention to an audio book. I struggle following conversation with people stood in front of me.
Manwe : Don't be half-hearted Olorin. You're just in the valley of despair according to Dunning-Kruger's paper. You will overcome it eventually.
@@ThomasYoung-my4qi_You_ obviously don‘t recognize a joke when you see one 😂
Interesting and very relevant analysis. Many thanks.
Wonderful video! It's also a little known fact that Olorin was actuality his surname. His full name was Gary Olorin
I tend to think it was corruption which Olorin/Gandalf feared. That corruption which had come from Melkor, twisted Mairon into Sauron and of which the latter was, by then, the greatest source in Middle Earth. Perhaps it was a dim forseeing of the fate of Saruman and a concern he, too, might fall.
Dragon, what an interesting viewpoint regading Olorin's fear ( in Maia form) of Sauron and his almost limitless power over middle Earth. Also your view on Manwe limiting the Maia's power and recreating them as Istari with a very narrow function in the 3A.
As far as Gandalf fearing Sauron directly, he had respect for Sauron's power level, understanding not merely the consequences of directly engaging, but also respect for the nature of Sauron's power, namely corruption. Respect for that specific aspect of Sauron's power was also Gandalf's stated reason for not personally carrying the ring.
As for the Valar's reasons for instructing him to not engage directly, their primary concern was stated as being a reaction to the devastation that direct conflict caused in Middle Earth in the 1st Age, when they engaged Melkor and his forces (which included Sauron) personally.
It's amazing how this part of Olorin / Gandalf 's life seems inspired by the Biblical character Jacob (son of Isaac, grandson of Abraham). He too had huge issues finding the courage to face his "evil" twin brother Esav and is the character who basically has the most direct insurances from God that he could do it.
Jacob btw is also a founding father for the hebrew people.
Just a thought that came to my mind watching the video...
great explanation about gandalf, I've always wondered since they were all "equal"
Imagine how Tolkien would feel about A.I. not watching anything that uses AI voice or generated images of a subject that has limitless artwork made by real people.
I know, script by ChatGPT, narration by text to speech, images by generative ai. I report these every time I see them.
Great question - I've always wondered this!
Many of the giant channels like GirlNextGondor cover this in heavy lengthy detail
great video, very well explained
I would never dare arguing with a Dragon. Might get burnt to a crisp/chip.
When the narrator said ,“Seeing as our world is the same world that was once middle earth…” I got completely freaked out for a couple seconds because the thought of Sauron and Morgoth potentially being able to see me made me trip out.
Damn this Trainwreck is blowing my mind.
I highly recommend it when you are wanting to really enjoy and get into any LOTR or Tolkien lore. Best Sativa Dominant Strain out there! I’d have to say that Fruity Pebbles is my Favorite Hybrid and Afghani-Kush or Northern Lights are my favorite Indica dominant hybrids.
The Maiar had rank and Sauron was of a much higher order than Olorin (Gandalf). Also, they were forbidden from trying to gain power or fight Sauron directly, but to inspire and mentor the races of middle earth to fight Sauron, not to seek to rule in their own right.
Ah enfin Thingol. Je l'aime bien ce perso qui de très sage et avisé, marié à la plus sage des Maiar tombe malheureusement sous la malédiction de Mandos. Il faut toujours écouter les conseils et les avis de sa femme surtout si elle s'appelle Melian. Bonne vidéo comme toujours.
What I don’t understand is why they didn’t send Tulkas, Orome, and Eonwe for a weeks holiday to ‘invite’ Sauron back to Valinor. Job done!
because they feared a new war of wrath. Ending with the destruction of middle-earth. Just like Beleriand was destroyed.
@@differentsense9777 I’d think if the Numenoreans could kick his butt and not destroy Middle Earth, then the three of them…screw it, just send Tulkas
When the Valar personally intervened in Middle Earth affairs, it caused huge destruction. So they concluded that they must never again return there.
It’s simple why he feared him. Truly wise and gentle people know they are vulnerable to corruption just like everyone else. They fear it because if the fall to it they lose all that hold dear, they will no longer be wise or gentle.
It means to devolve and operate from the lowest possible place.
Last, wisdom and gentleness is grown from inside. It can’t be made, traded or taken. Both are rare and too precious to risk.
That’s why he was afraid, he loved what he had grown to become and didn’t want to be anything other than what he was…
I think Manwe knew that Gandalf would be just fine because he knew Gandalf had grown so much that he had endlessness of spirit and as long as he was needed he would come back❤ to his friends.
Nice thx!
Cool😊 thanks
Subsribed
Both Maiar, but the Ishtari had much of their power stripped away when they were allowed to travel to M-E. They were to lead and inspire men, dwarves and elves to defeat Sauron, not to do so themselves. Gandalf does not 'fear' Sauron, but he respects the difference in power between them. (He had a hard enough time with the 'corrupted' Maiar which was the Balrog.)
Sauron was the most powerful of the Maiar. Also, he was Melkor's second in command, which made him more dangerous.
Nope. The reason why Olórin feared Sauron is because they were both primarily Maia of Aulë. Gandalf feared he was too weak and he would be seduced by darkness like Sauron was. The big man chose Olórin precisely because of this; That fear would make him cautious.
i wonder if magneto would have had an absolutely trivial time finding and destroying the ring. along with decimating sauron's armies. (assuming he was a good dude.)
In the adaptation it's explicitly pictured that Gandalf fear the corruption power of the ring, and doesn't want to deal with.
The Valar were not so wonderful. They let Feanor get robbed of his Silmarils, made from his own essence, by an evil Ainur/Valar (Melkor/Morgoth), and exiled Feanor and his followers for trying to get them back. Miffed at Feanor, they let middle earth suffer at evil Ainur/Valar (Melkor/Morgoth) and Maiar (Balrogs) hands for many centuries without intervention.
And what journey was Olorin on, clad in grey, just prior to coming to the council?
The answer is pretty simple, because Sauron would whooooooopppppp Gandalf lol. Even in his weakened state in the War of the Ring without the one, Sauron would still pretty much kick everyone's ass lol. But Sauron isn't a brute like Morgoth. He uses deception and force of numbers to win his battles without needing to do it himself. He only came out of Bara-Dur at the end of the War of the Last Alliance because it had been seven year siege of his fortress and things got desperate for him so he came out to confront everyone.
I don't think so. Remember in the second age when Ar-Pharazon the golden literally made Sauron now down when he saw his might? And he was a mortal, plus Gandalf was not allowed to use his full power in Middle Earth. If given a level playing field I think Gandalf could take Sauron.
@@richardsanchez5444 That's was in the Second Age. We're talking about Gandalf who arrived on Middle Earth in the Third Age in the old man weakened form. So we're talking about the present time of the events of LOTR. So at that time Gandalf was afraid of Sauron and rightly so. He was forbidden to use his full might and was in a weakened human state. Sauron has regained much of his power (even without the one ring) by the time the War of the Ring started. None on Middle Earth could stand against him. Sauron only feared the major powers like Aragorn, Saruman, Galadriel, and even Gandalf if they found the one ring and used it's power. Even though the ring would have corrupted them eventually, it would have given them enough power to challenge him.
And on an even playing field, Gandalf might be able to challenge Sauron, but he'd still lose. Sauron was one of, if not the most powerful Maiar that had ever existed. Gandalf was strong, but not on the same level as Sauron. Saruman would probably have given him more a run for his money on an even playing field than Gandalf would.
Lastly, Sauron only surrendered to Ar-Pharazon because he knew he couldn't defeat the Numenoreans in military combat. Not because he feared Ar-Pharazon. He did it as a cunning plan of deceit to infiltrate Nuemenor and corrupt them from within.
@@andrewvincent7299 both Sauron and Gandalf were Maia I think they were both pretty even. Gandalf pretty much nerfed himself in a human body, with all those handicaps yeah sauron takes it but everything being equal I'm going with Gandalf. Especially when he becomes Gandalf the white.
@@richardsanchez5444 Yes, they were both Maiar but they differed in power. Sauron was more powerful than Gandalf even in his normal form. Despite Gandalf being granted white wizard, he was still forbidden to use his full strength. The Istari were all made to be old men human forms because that limited their power because the Valar feared one or all may stray and in their full power, Middle Earth would have to deal with another corrupted full strength Maiar. They were also made to be the old men form because it was never intended for them to outright challenge and fight Sauron, but to rally the people's of Middle Earth to stand against Sauron themselves. They believed wizened old men would be listened to and followed more than anything else.
But regardless of that, the original question was, why was Gandalf afraid of Sauron. Because with all his handicaps and Sauron also being one of the most powerful Maiar, he knew he wouldn't stand a chance against him.
@@andrewvincent7299 yeah I agree as things were in the book Gandalf would be screwed but if they were both in their original forms Gandalf comes out on top.
With his humility while he would feel limited by taking human form he wouldn't feel debased
My thought is Gandalf knew his game was in wisdom, thoughtfulness and planning. He prob respected Sauron's intellect and cunning and felt he would likely be outmatched or equaled by Sauron even in his own area of expertise. In sporting terms he probably felt he was a bad matchup. In the end he undervalued just how much he could bring to the table.
He was not afraid of him, but afraid of himself, to defeat darkness you have to become darkness.
Thank you
If Gandolf was afraid of him, he wouldn't thrown down with him in his own house.
Because he was smart
This is fukken cool.
Its normal to fear ambitious beings infatuated by power. Especially if you are a being who represents peace love sorrow and mercy. Everything Myron was becoming is everything that stands in direct contrast of what the Maiar was supposed to be and Olorin was wise so his fear was in the end a Vital Tool
Sauron's corruptive force is based on tempting powerful individuals who feel they could really use more power to do whatever it is they needed to do, especially if there was external pressure. Boromir was heavily tempted to save Gondor as the elder son who had all the pressure on him. Faramir, the ignored brother, had no such external pressure and thus was able to let the hobbit ringbearers go. Saruman, who struggled between having his own agenda or still be good, was greatly corrupted by Sauron via the palantir. Gandalf, who had the entire fate of Middle Earth and was the main operator in Middle Earth who went between the factions of all the races to prevent Sauron would be very susceptible to Sauron's corrupting influence. Gandalf The Grey couldn't even beat Saruman The White, let alone Sauron.
I always took it that the Fear was not of what people initially think
The fear is that Melkor and anything he touched, turned putrid, including the most noble like Sauron, and it *spreads*
and Olorin was not wrong, it happened to Saruman. Heck, as an example, even just _touching_ the One Ring corrupted Maiar's souls that wanted nothing to do with it. It was a HUGE risk to even attempt this mission.
I'm missing a lot here. Why did the plan to send three change into a plan to send 5? Also, what happened to the other 3? I thought there was only Gandalf and Saruman in the Lord of the Rings. I am more confused now than I was before.
Radagast and the two blues make up the five. Only Gandalf stays the course. Not much is known of the blues.
Because when Melkor was disembodied, much of his strength went to sauron.
Melkor + Maiar > Maiar
All i see is the Valar wanting the world their way and Sauron saying to to the status quo.
Thank you very much!
I always thought his fear came from the corruption Sauron could cause. He feared the use of the ring for this reason so it would make sense he feared direct corruption too. Aswell as the reasons mentioned here.
The problem with the thesis here is that the Istari were specifically designed to have less than Sauron. Even if Olorin was also a Maia, in middle earth they had less power.
The Istari were sent into this fight with their hands tied behind their back and their glory subdued. Saurons power was unchecked.
Sauron, much like Melkor, weakened himself by investing much of his power and essence into his creations. Combined with some diminishing due to previous defeats, I believe that Sauron was not nearly at full strength, either. Still formidable, of course.
@billgoodman9103
Yes because power corrupts as the fallen angels Melkor and Sauron proved and later by Saruman who was the most powerful Istari.
Also in a dying world so there was less essence to draw from unless you cast away your physical raiment and kept your tether connected to Eru like Melian and Even Olórin did much can be done. Elves have also less inhibiting them and they always had more head of them. Destinies of sorts. In some ways surpassed the Valar. Sometimes the more powerful you are the more inhibited you are. Side note. Ainur really found it hard to reform a new body. Takes years upon years. They disliked losing their bodies especially in battle or to be a naked soul before another ainur or anyone else. Much of why gorthaur>Sauron let Lùthien banish him away from Taur Ín Gaurhoth.
@Makkaru112
The 2 towers reaperance of Gandalf refutes this notion of the Ainur taking years to take physical form as does the appearance of all the Istari.
Tolkien may have hated allegory but he leaves no question that the Ainur are the equivalent of Biblical angels with all their hierarchies. The Istari were in fact low cast angels that were given human form.
Also Arda (Earth) wasn't a dying planet by any stretch of the imagination.
Sauron is capable of Monsterkill, Superkill and Overkill! That's why!
Everyone was afraid of Sauron qnd what he represented but i thought he was afraid of Saroman more! Perhaps perceiving the possibility of confliction in saromans heart over obtaining great power!
Yes, he told Manwe that he was. Manwe said that’s even more reason he should go as an istari.
Tulkus, could you please put on a shirt? We're having council to decide the fate of Middle-earth.
Sauron was willing to exert his full power on mankind, whereas Gandalf was charged with nudging mortals and inspiring them to be their best. If the Valar had given Gandalf to act directly, as Sauron did, the battle would be over. The point is that Gandalf was sent to aid the men of the west to be their best, to not despair, not to defeat Sauron directly. The song at the beginning had to play out.
fear - to have a appropriate respect and apprehension for the danger involved in the task at hand - that is a very wise position, and in keeping with Ólorin/Gandalf's character. ever the pragmatist.
I mean, having a non-zero chance of having to face the current big baddie, who's at the same time the chief captain of the whole legendarium's big baddie, who's really pissed off after losing his ring, who's the greatest craftsman ever to step over middle earth and who probably helped Morgoth corrupt other races including Maiar themselves? Yeah, I wouldn't be thrilled, and even though Gandalf in his white form is likely orders of magnitude above GTG, he's somehow still below Sauron without his ring.
Sauron was the most powerful maia in creation. His ring also increases his power when worn. The istari were forbidden to confront Sauron directly.
because he knew exactly who and what Sauron was and he knew he would reappear.... ooh and he was not allowed to use his full powers....
Friendly challenge: It does not say in silmarillion that the Istari(Wizards) changed thier form or were not allowed to use their powers. Long Quote(Sorry).....
" Even as the first shadows were felt in Mirkwood there appeared in the West of Middle Earth the Istari whom men called Wizards. None knew time whence they came save Cirdan of the havens, and only to Elrond and to Galadriel did he reveal that they came over the sea. But afterwards it was said among the elves that they were messengers sent by the Lords of the West to contest the power of Sauron, if he should rise again and to move helps and men and all living things of goodwill to valiant deeds.
In the likeness of men they appeared old but vigorous, and they changed little with the years, and aged slowly though cares lay on them; great wisdom they had, and many powers of mind and hand. Long they journeyed far and wide among elves and men and held converse also with beasts and with birds; and the peoples of Middle Earth gave them many names for their true names they did not reveal. "
Where in Silmarillion does it say they changd their forms or left any power behind ?
Again, this is a friendly challenge. Have a nice day everyone😁
With early-3rd-age Sauron diminished by his power going into the ring, then diminished again by drowning in Numenor, how easy would it be for the Istari to capture him, rather than driving him out? Seems a better solution.
I think you missed the lot completely on why Ólorin was afraid and why that made him the perfect candidate. As a maiar he couldn't die and pain meant little. What he was afraid of was being tempted and turning to evil. That is why he was the perfect person to send. All but two of the maiar that were sent were corrupted.
Patrick Stewart @ 1:10
Morgoth had more raw power …. Even Sauron bent the knee to him . Had no choice but to call him master…. But ! Sauron was cunning and vile . He had everything Morgoth didn’t . Just not as dark or destructive in actual power and abilities but he was powerful enough for when Morgoth fell ! That no one could truly match his strength but the gods……
Would be amazing if they brought back lord of the rings not the hobbit but the actual lord of the rings and it’s about them trying to stop Morgoth from being resurrected
Gandalf had to deal with restrictions set by the Valar because of the reality of Middle Earth, and the rule of absolute power corrupts absolutely !
He might fear the temptation for power, which destroyed Saruman.
Why was Gandalf afraid of Sauron?
Because he had good sense!
I think he feared Sauron in the sense that he might fall like Saruman did. In other words, he feared temptation
What if Olorin fear that Sauron would corrupt him to evil? He wasn't afraid of the physical but the spiritual. That Sauron could turn him into something he despised.
Cause Sauron can tempt him with power and knowledge..
Gandalf feared the Balrog as well.
I dont remember the book saying they were equal in power to sauron???
Exactly. Its the exact opposite! Tolkien said that Sauron was far higher order than both Saruman and Gandalf. They were basically low tier Maiar while Sauron was a High tier Maia.
Unfinished Tales, Chapter: The Istari
"'Who would go? For they must be mighty, peers of Sauron, but must forgo might, and clothe themselves in flesh so as to treat on equality and win the trust of Elves and Men"
@@middleearthtales”Peers” is not synonymous with “equal in power.” It refers to status.
It didn’t
@@middleearthtalesa classroom full of students are peers, but you have the real smart ones, the jocks, and the kid in the corner picking his nose and eating it.
Had no idea the wizards had been so nerfed😮
I think Gandalf’s greatest fear is if he was offered ultimate power could he resist it.
Why didn't they send Eönwe? He was proven to be incorruptable and was extremely powerful.
At the risk of being dumb, and hurting what supposed to be, in the end, a good story, was "death" really that big of a risk for the Istari? I can sit here and troop out my usual whines of what Eru Illuvatar did, or wouldn't do, to stop what amounted to one rogue angel, despite other times He acted wirh much greater oomph, and directness, but He obviously WASN'T going to just let Middle Earth fall into ruin, or He probably wouldn't have sent the Wizards, anyway.as Maia, they don't "die" in the typical sense, and He was obviously willing to send Gandalf back, even after the Grey Pilgrim was legitimately slain. Some aspect of His plan compelled Him to say "F--- it!", and send Olorin back. Similarly, though Elves don't frequently get fast-tracked back to life, after a certain amount of time on the Halls of Mandos, they fo come back, and Glorfindel even did so quickly, for reasons, so despite us never seeing the Blue Wizards, and no one in verse seeing them again, if they had died, is there a reason we can't imagine Eru Illuvatar basically refreshing, and redispatching, the Wizards as many times as it took? Sure, when Sauron lost his body, there were times it took a long time to get one back, but his power was scattered, and he worked in defiance of Illuvatar. God can just "wave his hands", and we get Gandalf back, so is there a reason to think THEIR failure would be what it took to just get Illuvatar to accept the bad ending, leave Middle Earth to its fate, and move onto a new project, or would He continue to tinker, even while refraining to fix things more directly, and just keep a Gandalf on it till it worked, since he is immortal?
What they look like in true form?
Gandalf was only afraid of temptation.
If Gandalf were to confront Sauron and give battle, that would go against his advisory role. There were a lot of things from which the Istari were to refrain, rather than try to solve the problems of the humans, elves, and dwarves for them. He was specifically forbidden to do their fighting for them.
In a way, dealing with Sauron was a "Not my job" situation for Gandalf and all the wizards.
Equal meaning of the same order-Maia.
But it turns out it was Olorin (Gandalf) who steadfastly fought Sauron up until the very end unlike his Istari co beings who didn't accomplished their tasks.
Why was Gandolf afraid of Sauron? Because Sauron ate nine!
Couse of this i dont like Gandolf the white… he uses more his blade than his brain..too aggressive and confident in what hes doing.
Because the Director said so?
I think Gandalf feared Sauron's influence. And Saruman shows us why.
The istari were sent to middle earth with diminished power, not with NO power.
No way Gandalf could beat a balrog if he was "just an old man".
Actually none of them were equal in power to sauron. He was the most potent of his kind, save for maybe Osse' or Eyonwe'
I think Gandalf is afraid of the ambitions Sauron has. Gandalf have no ambitions towards the Sauron problem, while Sauron is doing this for his ambitions and to be honest; This is Saurons lifes work.
Considering this is A. i. The answer is pretty good