This is what stock car racing is suppose to be. Not folks buying $50k brand new cars every few years. If you cant create speed yourself you need to be in a late model, not a stock car.
I think you make a good point Robert but I want to challenge you with this thought as well. Sometimes there are parts in the industry that the seller just "Says" are what you must have to win. Everybody wants to go fast and throws money at anyone promising speed. But sometimes it's just snake oil. This I think is an example. In CRUSA SS "no adjustable center links are allowed" rule is making this Afco "Improved Center Link" the expensive go to option that folks are throwing money at. But wait, this thing is nothing more than a repackaged knock off Moog DS1049.... And THEN its not right for getting the bumpsteer really close at all as manufactured. I do think there are some legit parts and gains that you just have to pony up the money for. For example, no 3 speed Saginaw transmission and clutch will ever compare to a racing transmission. If you are in a class that allows a direct drive racing trans, then buddy spend the money cause it absolutely matters. Anything Safety wise, spend the money. But like shock, spring, and suspension mounts . . . If you can make it yourself and make it work as smoothly, then save that money for elsewhere or some tires and build that stuff yourself. Hope this makes sense as a reasonable middle ground I try to apply in racing.
@@DIRTRACELIFE please don’t get me wrong what you are doing many people even racers don’t understand or even know what it takes to do it thank you sir for allowing us to see your work and keep it up 👍
Fantastic Job Jason ! Lots of stuff written on the theory of Bumpsteer, but your video will certainly help the guy having to do his own fabrication and setup by actually showing how it’s done. We tried to get it worked out on a early Chevelle one time and it was a lot of trial and error, as there was no credible information on how to start, or what stock parts to use, etc. Thanks for all you do Brother ! See y’all soon at the races !
Not gona lie here Jack, I did quite a bit of trial and error and measuring here as well before I struck pay dirt. Just glad I got it figured out where I could show others how it can be done.
That was an awesome video right there that's way out of my comfort zone to try to do something like that on my street stock I don't have a metric chassis I have the Caprice chassis cut down but that is definitely way more than I could do but again awesome video buddy keep it up looking forward to the next one really looking forward to seeing that car on the track have a good one take care
That is great, if your driving job ever ends you sure could make a living building parts for others, but I know that comes with a great responsibility, but hay we're racers it's a chance you take every time you strap in ! Back in the late nineties when when run a Ford front clip rear steer we had to weld tubes on a stock center link to get the bump right but we were lucky it's what the chassis manufacturer told up to do and what was really crazy about that was we didn't need power steering on the car after you were moving you could steer it with one finger literally !
Great show , not bragging but i did this 20 years ago but it was on factory stock did it with factory A arms on top ,might help ,took factory A arm plates turned them around, needed to look stock swap ed R Arm upper, L arm ,then used some caprice links the car won 23 out of 26 , lead limited late,race for 12 laps until peeled ,R R tire , the car was awesome, my boy drove it year driving #2 for him ,!wasnt cheating either just steering ! The caprice has a great front end , that said ,it wasn't as good as your doing ,wasn't as smart back then but had to be stock everything! Think biggest thing ,metric is angle of upper A arms, ?? Compared to loweres, stock GM bilt tthem in opposite direction to try to give a better ride , an screwed the steering up bad ! But the caprice front has almost no bump steer stock ! Good info ,i learned more an more is better ,? have a great day racers !😊
I have heard of that upper reversal deal but man o man I bet that was a TON of caster!!! I agree on the big frame having better geometry. It seems like GM absolutely went full "Granny Ride" priority on the small metric. It's terrible regarding the crazy bump and dive it does from the factory.
@@DIRTRACELIFE took upper A arm plates an swapped sides or turned them ,big deal aside remember is getting shock back in the stock place where it looked stock, an worked, an thinking i moved A arm Mt. To keep caster right that why shock was a problem on shock , then put lots of battery acid ,then water then nature gave me rust then I added grease and dirt ,then a little paint an keep front from car wash ! Even after we had shock problems, tearing out the rubber in them ,they had to be stock not even gas stock ! When you win lots of inspections, an looking!
Adding caster can help to correct bump steer if needing to raise the outer tie rod to get angles right. On the idler side of the drag link I gut the pivot out and sleeve it then drill the idler hole to put a bolt through the drag link and idler doing that I can have some up and down adjustments.. Moving that idler to the inside of the frame is a good way to correct the misaligned drag link. You are building a car that is going to be fast... I am in the process of building a new asphalt street stock and bump steer is one part of the setup that it doesn't matter whether dirt or asphalt the bump has to be at the absolute minimum...Back to the caster setting any time caster is changed bump needs to be reset..
Sam, I had not considered that caster relationship but YES that makes perfect sense because when you lean the spindle back adding Caster you are raising the steering arm. Fantastic insight I need to share on channel next time I talk bumpsteer (probably when we go over final setup on the car race ready).
My last metric car had the "afco" centerlink, one way you can square the idler and pitman arm is to just cut a small hole in the bottom of the right horn and bolt the idler to the inside of the frame instead of the outside.
yes sir, Stock is just goofy because its only 13"s between those tie rods on the centerlink. you have to seriously rework it to get anything even reasonable.
Hey Greg, Sorry for the confusion. I did this over a week long period with tons of trial and error to figure out how to use stock stuff and craft a solution. it was a ridiculous amount of video and there was parts I cut to get it under 30 minutes that now I can see were really needed.
This seems like a bad idea doesn't it? Like what happens when you bend the one you built? I don't know just seems like it's gonna be alot of work for something that I'd be surprised if everyone else is doing.
The work was figuring it out not making it. Making it was a 30 minute job and I have rarely bent a center link so I am thinking this is definitely a good move for me. But recreating this would be very easy now that I know what to do 😀
If you're bending center links... you're typically gonna fix/replace a lot more of the front end... with that said, it's Always a great idea to have a spare mocked up and ready to drop in as a complete assembly this way, track/pit side repairs are fast, easy and spot-on.
Build one then yo build the second, then use spare then the one you tore up u repair that , they take lots of abuse! Just remember to keep the ends cool! Or take all stock stuff that fits ,an use is it ,then repair, but it will let you know how good the steering was compared to stock ! An make you better if you keep it under you ! If not you need more practice! 😁
This is what stock car racing is suppose to be. Not folks buying $50k brand new cars every few years. If you cant create speed yourself you need to be in a late model, not a stock car.
Yes I agree but if you want to be competitive you buy the best
@@roberthirshfield3571 thats why i said its how its SUPPOSE to be.
I think you make a good point Robert but I want to challenge you with this thought as well.
Sometimes there are parts in the industry that the seller just "Says" are what you must have to win. Everybody wants to go fast and throws money at anyone promising speed. But sometimes it's just snake oil. This I think is an example. In CRUSA SS "no adjustable center links are allowed" rule is making this Afco "Improved Center Link" the expensive go to option that folks are throwing money at. But wait, this thing is nothing more than a repackaged knock off Moog DS1049.... And THEN its not right for getting the bumpsteer really close at all as manufactured.
I do think there are some legit parts and gains that you just have to pony up the money for. For example, no 3 speed Saginaw transmission and clutch will ever compare to a racing transmission. If you are in a class that allows a direct drive racing trans, then buddy spend the money cause it absolutely matters. Anything Safety wise, spend the money. But like shock, spring, and suspension mounts . . . If you can make it yourself and make it work as smoothly, then save that money for elsewhere or some tires and build that stuff yourself.
Hope this makes sense as a reasonable middle ground I try to apply in racing.
@@DIRTRACELIFE please don’t get me wrong what you are doing many people even racers don’t understand or even know what it takes to do it thank you sir for allowing us to see your work and keep it up 👍
I knew where you were coming from and you made a valid point 😀
Fantastic Job Jason ! Lots of stuff written on the theory of Bumpsteer, but your video will certainly help the guy having to do his own fabrication and setup by actually showing how it’s done. We tried to get it worked out on a early Chevelle one time and it was a lot of trial and error, as there was no credible information on how to start, or what stock parts to use, etc. Thanks for all you do Brother ! See y’all soon at the races !
Not gona lie here Jack, I did quite a bit of trial and error and measuring here as well before I struck pay dirt. Just glad I got it figured out where I could show others how it can be done.
Excellent tutorial on bump steer you have cleared a lot up for me thanks for the channel great job
Glad it was helpful Patrick, that's my intent.
Best front end video ever watched!!
Kind words sir, I try :)
That was an awesome video right there that's way out of my comfort zone to try to do something like that on my street stock I don't have a metric chassis I have the Caprice chassis cut down but that is definitely way more than I could do but again awesome video buddy keep it up looking forward to the next one really looking forward to seeing that car on the track have a good one take care
Thanks Rick always appreciate your feedback sir.
Great stuff buddy! Sure wish I had paid more attention in geometry back in '77.
You and me both buddro! Except to me that was the 80's and 90'2 LOL
That is great, if your driving job ever ends you sure could make a living building parts for others, but I know that comes with a great responsibility, but hay we're racers it's a chance you take every time you strap in ! Back in the late nineties when when run a Ford front clip rear steer we had to weld tubes on a stock center link to get the bump right but we were lucky it's what the chassis manufacturer told up to do and what was really crazy about that was we didn't need power steering on the car after you were moving you could steer it with one finger literally !
Thanks Dana, You know you have it right when you have no need for power steering!
Great show , not bragging but i did this 20 years ago but it was on factory stock did it with factory A arms on top ,might help ,took factory A arm plates turned them around, needed to look stock swap ed R Arm upper, L arm ,then used some caprice links the car won 23 out of 26 , lead limited late,race for 12 laps until peeled ,R R tire , the car was awesome, my boy drove it year driving #2 for him ,!wasnt cheating either just steering ! The caprice has a great front end , that said ,it wasn't as good as your doing ,wasn't as smart back then but had to be stock everything!
Think biggest thing ,metric is angle of upper A arms, ?? Compared to loweres, stock GM bilt tthem in opposite direction to try to give a better ride , an screwed the steering up bad ! But the caprice front has almost no bump steer stock ! Good info ,i learned more an more is better ,? have a great day racers !😊
I have heard of that upper reversal deal but man o man I bet that was a TON of caster!!! I agree on the big frame having better geometry. It seems like GM absolutely went full "Granny Ride" priority on the small metric. It's terrible regarding the crazy bump and dive it does from the factory.
@@DIRTRACELIFE took upper A arm plates an swapped sides or turned them ,big deal aside remember is getting shock back in the stock place where it looked stock, an worked, an thinking i moved A arm Mt. To keep caster right that why shock was a problem on shock , then put lots of battery acid ,then water then nature gave me rust then I added grease and dirt ,then a little paint an keep front from car wash ! Even after we had shock problems, tearing out the rubber in them ,they had to be stock not even gas stock !
When you win lots of inspections, an looking!
you make my day
I try bud, appreciate you watching
You need to go ahead and build 3 of them to keep in the trailer
I was just thinking this. You need to build some spares of these custom parts
For sure need to build one more for the trailer!
Great job 👍
Thank you sir, appreciate you watching
Cool stuff
Thank you sir
Awesome video Jason! Nice fab work as always. She should drive like a Cadillac.
I'm sure getting some good vibes from this car. I think we are going to get along just fine
And for the record I believe fans an other races have more respect for you an people who build there own cars then the money racers
Appreciate it Robert
Adding caster can help to correct bump steer if needing to raise the outer tie rod to get angles right. On the idler side of the drag link I gut the pivot out and sleeve it then drill the idler hole to put a bolt through the drag link and idler doing that I can have some up and down adjustments.. Moving that idler to the inside of the frame is a good way to correct the misaligned drag link. You are building a car that is going to be fast... I am in the process of building a new asphalt street stock and bump steer is one part of the setup that it doesn't matter whether dirt or asphalt the bump has to be at the absolute minimum...Back to the caster setting any time caster is changed bump needs to be reset..
Sam, I had not considered that caster relationship but YES that makes perfect sense because when you lean the spindle back adding Caster you are raising the steering arm. Fantastic insight I need to share on channel next time I talk bumpsteer (probably when we go over final setup on the car race ready).
@@DIRTRACELIFE I like the way you modified the drag link.
My last metric car had the "afco" centerlink, one way you can square the idler and pitman arm is to just cut a small hole in the bottom of the right horn and bolt the idler to the inside of the frame instead of the outside.
also ran a 78 Monza outer tie rod on just the right side to make it all work, left side was stock outer.
Just finished the video this morning, guess I should've done that before I started bangin away on the keyboard cause you were ahead of me there 👌
Ha! Shoot I'm just seeing this as confirmation of it as a good solution.
Smart minds think alike 😉
👍
Yep!
So this fixed the tie rod lengths on the stock setup? Im assuming the stock geometry was causing bad bump issues right?
yes sir, Stock is just goofy because its only 13"s between those tie rods on the centerlink. you have to seriously rework it to get anything even reasonable.
@@DIRTRACELIFE ok, now I 💯 understand why you had to do this
Hey Greg, Sorry for the confusion. I did this over a week long period with tons of trial and error to figure out how to use stock stuff and craft a solution. it was a ridiculous amount of video and there was parts I cut to get it under 30 minutes that now I can see were really needed.
@DIRTRACELIFE you did great J!
I think the checkered flag is about to drop
I am sure liking how this girl is starting to come together. I have high hopes!
This seems like a bad idea doesn't it? Like what happens when you bend the one you built? I don't know just seems like it's gonna be alot of work for something that I'd be surprised if everyone else is doing.
The work was figuring it out not making it. Making it was a 30 minute job and I have rarely bent a center link so I am thinking this is definitely a good move for me. But recreating this would be very easy now that I know what to do 😀
If you're bending center links... you're typically gonna fix/replace a lot more of the front end... with that said, it's Always a great idea to have a spare mocked up and ready to drop in as a complete assembly this way, track/pit side repairs are fast, easy and spot-on.
Build one then yo build the second, then use spare then the one you tore up u repair that , they take lots of abuse! Just remember to keep the ends cool! Or take all stock stuff that fits ,an use is it ,then repair, but it will let you know how good the steering was compared to stock ! An make you better if you keep it under you ! If not you need more practice! 😁