So true @Daman Jeet. This guy is on a whole different level. Even if throws out random "nerd" stats as some would say, everything he says and represents is on point. Nice video @fortnine
The video also deserves a follow up on how difficult it is to have standardized engine performance graphs for objective comparisons because different dynos have different accuracy/drag/cooling etc and the performance of an internal combustion engine at any given time can vary substantially with atmospheric conditions. Some people go apeshit on internet forums comparing bike/car A's dyno to bike/car B's dyno to establish which is superior based on a graph from dyno model X tested two months ago in one city and dyno model Z tested last week 3000 miles away, none of them stop to realize that each of those graphs could be like 5-10% off easily. Some manufacturers do provide the full engine performance graphs, for instance Ducati and BMW do, but they are the "indicated" performance graphs (basically the theoretical ideal performance expected based on measuring/simulating the gas inside the combustion chambers) not actual print outs from an engine dyno test, largely because there is no universal industry standard equipment and test conditions for that so that could easily be fudged too.
honestly torque doesn't come into play unless you are trying to move heavy objects. when it comes to a bike hp is all that matters. when it comes to a semi torque is all that matters.
@@leetucker5788 no. Power is always the number that matters (for engines): torque can be converted, a gearbox, a torque converter, even the wheels itself does nothing else than converting revolutions and torque. But the power will be the same on both ends. when you put all your weight (i take mine ~100kg) on a lever of 1m, you are generating 1000Nm of torque! but even the engine of a 125ccm-Bike (~10Nm) will (with correct gearing) turn you to nuts, because it has way more Power!
@@Coolgamer400 Except you're comparing static torque vs dynamic torque (and static torque, because in car or a motorcycle both are involved). That's useless comparison. You can read up on that. You can also read up on the issue of torque conversion. Yes, you do manipulate torque with various systems - like torque converter, gearing or wheels. However, all those elements are limited by other practical factors. If you go for really extreme gearing you'll be restricted to extremely slow moving vehicle. Torque converter's torque multiplication is limited by among other things size of it - and generally speaking isn't most efficient way to doing it. Similarly manipulating torque through wheel size is limited by shape of vehicle. That's why torque as maximum value is important, but more important is torque curve. If your engine produces 10 Nm of torque, it might be in - say - 6000-6800 RPM band. If that's the case to maintain acceleration you need to constantly shift gears.. but you can only have so many gears (since it's simply limited by physical space you have for your gearbox). More importantly you lose time with each gearshift as well. In other words: the higher your engine maximum torque is, the flatter the curve and lower revs you get (close) to the top of it, the less compromises you need with gearbox and wheels. Power is important as well, and honestly all factors have to be considered when 'judging' any given drive train (since engine is only part of entire system). Still, the point of start is engine, to which you adjust all the other factors to achieve desired results. Choosing wrong engine for application is just idiotic.
Love your content. Clearly put a great deal of thought and effort into it. Probably the only detail I would throw in there to tie two of the very astute points you made is that what you "feel" is acceleration. Acceleration is effectively how readily available power is at the current rpm, vs. how much mass (you plus the bike) you need to move. Thus if you have two bikes with identical powerbands across their rpm range... and one of them weighs 550lbs and the other 350lbs and you weigh 150... then the lighter bike will accelerate ~30% faster and you will feel that. If you currently weigh 250lbs... let this be an incentive to you to get a massive free performance boost from your bike. Unless none of that matters to you...I'm at 220... so... it kinda matters to me... but I just ate another chocolate chip cookie sooooo.... Great advice at the end, try the bike, ride what you like.
Except for the fact that there IS no "current" RPM or speed, because, by definition, it has to be in a constant state of change (i.e. INCREASING) or there would BE no sensation of acceleration.
@@michaelscott356 I get what you're saying however you can determine instantaneous acceleration for any combination of rpm, gear, and speed at any explicit time. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to generate a plot of acceleration from 0 to top speed. I.e. just because everything is changing doesn't prevent the ability to measure it or feel it and learn to keep things in x power band with y throttle to power out of a corner predictably.
You can't make acceleration comparisons only based on power to weight ratios. Aerodynamic drag is an important factor too. At high speeds that 30 % could be a lot less or a lot more, depending on the shapes of the bikes and riders.
@Janne Laakso I agree, go fast enough and drag literally and figuratively becomes the great equalizer.👍 Having said that, of course I can make acceleration comparisons, by keeping it basic. The whole "assume a frictionless spherical chicken in a vacuum" thing. Otherwise we get into wheel mass and radius, drag, etc. Even then our model won't be 100% without some empirical fudge factor. Getting up to typical road speeds, wind drag with similar styles of motorcycle isn't the dominating factor. That's where my head was at so I ignored it. Already near highway speeds and faster then yeah it would definitely matter if one chicken was more slippery than the other. 😉
If what we feel is acceleration, and acceleration is proportional to torque / moment of inertia, the latter of which is constant throughout the RPM range, does that mean that we should look at the torque curves when comparing the enjoyability of two bikes?
Tires. I once heard that manufacturers had three requirements for tires - round, black and cheap. And that they were willing to compromise on the first two.
I think that was true thirty years ago. My last three motor vehicles, car and two motorcycles, have all had good tires. Maybe not the ultra premium stuff, but good tires.
This is the nerdiest motorcycle video that *an* enthusiast can watch. Measurements, law, and physics. Thanks. Refined comment: This is a very academic and informative video that most motorcycle enthusiasts can and will appreciate. The richness and diversity of subjects from mathematics to regional law are very detailed and informative. The explanation of how manufacturers cut corners on cost/efficiently was quite brilliant and spicy. As a person who falls into the category of motorcycle enthusiasts, I salute you.
Finally, someone who seems to understand torque and hp! Instead of the usual high torque engine is slow revving motor, high hp = speed. The torque curve tells much more about an engines performance then many realise
@@burdazza2711 I dunno, theres far too many 'smart' people that should know better that insist that you need back pressure in an exhaust or you lose power...
This guy makes the best content I’ve seen in a long time. Really excellent. If tv were relevant today, I’d say he should have a show, but I suppose he already does.
Walter Wilkins If you really want to tighten up your numbers, get rid of pounds or kilos, use Stone... I weigh under sixteen and a half (16.43) stone..... yep, I’m one skinny bitch at 230 pounds.... uh, I mean sixteen and a half stone....
Thank you for explaining the tire codes. I usually get caught up trying to hunt down the OEM version of whatever tire my bike came with thinking it's better, but now I know it likely means the opposite.
Thank you, Ryan for putting so much good research, planning and overall effort into your entertainment. - sorry, I mean 'Helpful Videos For Motorcyclists' . PS: My bike does thirty furlongs in three shakes of a lamb's tail - that's fast !
the board of education would've fired Ryan F9 before the end of the first semester for being an entertaining teacher who connects with the students. At least in my experience.
Gotta luv a video where Ryan does the math! Great info, and I agree with..."just go ride, feel the tires, feel the weight, feel the power ...." etc. Every bike I have owned and rode had enough "power" to injure/hurt/kill if not careful. Another valuable video, thank you!
Funny enough, the fz-09's dyno graph actually looks like the 3rd graph in the video. Awesome bike. www.cycleworld.com/2015/12/09/2016-yamaha-fz-09-naked-motorcycle-dyno-run-video-and-performance-chart/
Think you might want to watch Stuart Fillingham RUclips video on these tyres, totally different perspective with thorough research, hope this helps. 👍🏻
Bullshit! front tires have 3mm, REAR tires have 5 so you were comparing front and rear. Pirelli has factories in different countries Brazil, China, Germany etc. same tires. Sloppy "research" You should be ashamed Fortnine! See this video ruclips.net/video/YYXx9ogQ0lM/видео.html
Re the tyres, what a load of bollocks. Comparing front tyre tread to a rear tyre tread and factory that makes crossplys to one that makes radials. Investigation powers of a shopping trolley. Never let the truth get in the way of a food conspiracy theory eh!
made me laugh in less than 7 seconds, and then dropped real knowledge. I love this channel. We need to petition RUclips for a "super like" button, as I feel the standard like button is inadequate for how much I enjoy this material.
Thank you for this piece, Ryan. Not sure how I missed it back in January. This was spot on. I love your sense of humor, too! And the quality of your work is always top flight. Thanks again!
I really dig seeing all the formulas in the vids. Helps me (and others, I assume) clarify some of the mysteries of riding and all it encompasses. Thanks guys!
Glad I'm not the only one feeling this way... I almost want to go back to the days when the only motorcycle videos I knew existed were motovlogging ones where the "hosts" were seemingly dumber than I... but then, I won't get to watch this amazing channel, so concessions have to be made.
We don't all have to be as smart and clever as Ryan FortNine. We just have to enjoy his antics and understand the points he's making. I don't consider myself dumb or inexperienced about motorcycling, but I can readily admit I've learned a lot from Ryan's videos while being simultaneously entertained!
@@hungwasson1399 Completely agree By the way, I've seen some videos of Ryan making fun of himself where he had clips of him as a "stand in" model for motorcycle gear - jackets etc. - do you know, did Ryan used to work for one of the motorcycle retailers? If so, which one? I'm curious.
Hi, after binge watching all, yes ‘all’ of your presentations over the last few weeks... as a born again mature rider from the UK, I have really enjoyed every one. I have done the research, got all of my gear, and my new bike is on order too. Keep up the great work.
Luke McGowan... you may laugh... its a Zontes Phantom 250s. Was £3k new but got an ex demo model direct from Zontes UK, with 270 miles on it for £1500 with MOT and service, delivered to my nearest dealer about 40 miles away. I’m getting it next week... just to get me back on a bike again after 10 years... will have to see where we go from here. Cheers.
I really enjoy your videos. The quality and effort, your eloquence and vocabulary, but above all the sheer amount of hard knowledge they provide. Fantastic! Keep it up!
Computer parts manufacturers have been caught using sweet tech deals for certain users to post positive content and reviews for their products on many forums, it wouldn't surprise me if motorcycle companies did the same.
Not quite. Reviewers are almost invariably biased. In the Uk, if Triumph makes a bike with a smooth torque and power curve (lets say speed triple) it is a refined, smooth and linear engine. When kawasaki make a Z900 with an immaculate power curve it "lacks character". Best advice is, as Ryan says: try the bikes out because 99% of reviewers speak bullshit.
Ah, the age old problem of "reviewers" aka advertisers. More often than not any "review" you see will have loads of positive aspects and praises of a product with just a dash of the negative sides. Some may even feel like tech sheet readouts. In these cases you have to remember that they are very likely getting paid directly (sponsorships etc.) or through referral systems (sales volume). So if you come across with "reviewer" which always ends with a positive image of the product, you know that the person is financially constrained in their "review" and you should mainly focus on the negative sides of the product brought up. These "reviews" are one of the reasons why user based content has been in such a high regard, people want to cut through the manufacturers' and "reviewers'" bullshit and know if the product is actually any good.
That's why I bought a Moto Guzzi V7, put a lot of money into it trying to fix the cheap engineering, then sold it after six months. As the new owner rode away, I thought, "man, that's a pretty bike."
I just have to say, I have been riding my whole life and you are the most educated person I have ever seen when it comes to motorcycles. Brilliant channel... and thanks...
Honestly, after being on the web for 25 plus years (not counting the squeeling modem BBS years), this has to be one of the absolute best and most informative vids I've seen so far. My hat off, not only for the information but also for the born-to-be-an-informative-and-easy-to-listen-to-guy who explains it all.
Thanks for all your videos, very informational and provide everyone with a better understanding of all things motorcycle related. I appreciate the fact that you equip the viewers with facts backed up with logical scientifical proof and don't tell the viewer what to think but guide them to the conclusion that they should be making on their own with what has been provided. Great editing, easy to watch as well! I look forward to your videos! Thank you.
What Ryan may have forgotten to mention is that when a manufacturer publishes HP and torque numbers, or even the complete charts, they measure the engine output at the crank, bolting the crank directly on the dyno. Thereby bypassing the power losses in the primary drive, clutch, gearbox, and final drive; those usually sap around 15% of output.
Thorough and entertaining. Excellent. Back in my courier days I put some (slightly) used, very sticky German rubber on an MZ 250 2-stroke single. It was TRANSFORMED. A commuter Putt-Putt become something I could throw into bends. I didn't know about the trickery with OEM tyres, but high-end tyres on an old bike do take it to another level.
you can find torque graph for your bike by looking for aftermarket exhaust, they will put stock and aftermarket to show you how the fake carbon fiber can give you 5 hp at the top end
Without tuning the ECU or other things, horse power gain in nothing more than pure marketing smoke, there is no proof that it automatically means more power, in fact it is more probable you lose than gain, so those graphs may also be a deception
@@alexduey7868 The guys commenting on your suggestion missed the point. Sure, there might be a 5HP difference ehre or there, shure it might be total BS. who cares. at least we got to see a 'relatively accurate' graphical depiction of the power/torque curves, which was what the OP intended. It's a lot better than seeing a 'peak' number.
@@tomraider099 I already had the classic Royal Enfield (it was my brother's and I barely used it). But then I bought the Himalayan(supposed to be the best Royal Enfield out there). But honestly both of these are equally bad. I bought them because of the brand's popularity in my country(India). But after seeing the motorcycle world with a better view(thanks to Ryan) , I'm planning to sell these and purchase one of those lightweight suzuki trials or Husqvarna's(Because I'm a skinny 18 year old).
Coming from Stuart Filis video as well this needs to be addressed and any mistakes made will not be the end of anybodys career but for the betterment of the culture, they need to be corrected if need be. Thanks.
@@funkthat Agreed. Ryan does a lot of great work, but we all make mistakes. If he made one here, he should acknowledge it, apologize, and we can all move on.
7:42 "and when torque is moving, that IS horsepower. One is a function of the other". I've tried to explain this so many times, so many people just can't understand it.
Torque and horsepower are the same on a graph at 5252 rpm. Race engines want high power just below the redline. Street engines want lots of torque from idle to 30 mph, 60 mph and to 80 mph. The power for a street engine near redline rpm is useless, especially if it gets 5 miles per gallon or less to do it. See a horsepower and torque graph for the new Goldwing- very good for public roads, for a high price.
Torque tells how much work can be done. HP how fast work can be done. Electric motor gives max. torque all the time from 0 RPM to max RPM, but zero RPM work will never be done.
@@XtreeM_FaiL it is funny that Harley Davidson advertises torque, and everyone else advertises horsepower. To me it is more about price, weight, reliability and comfort. I am most attracted to the inline 3 Yamahas, but own an older Kawasaki ZZR600 inline 4 for 75 mph, and a Honda Shadow 600cc VLX for 60 mph.
I think Ryan summed it up perfectly at 09:34: "...salesmen are salesmen, so just go ride". For most motorcyclists the choice of bike is an emotional one, with a little economics thrown in. So what the thing feels like, on the road/track/trail and beneath your backside, is probably the most important consideration.
FortNine and commenters please refer to Stuart Fillingham's retort to the claims about the Interceptor's Pirelli's, "News on NORTON and Pirelli Phantoms Sportscomp tyres. Is RE tricking you?" It appears that Ryan may have goofed and compared an over the counter rear tire to an OEM Interceptor front tire. All Pirelli Phantoms apparently have 3mm tread depth on the front tires and 5mm on the rear no matter where you get them (OEM or over the counter). After doing the necessary research, Stuart pointed out that the Interceptors have spoked wheels and thus use cross-plain ply tires. He found out that the only Pirelli plants making cross-plain Phantoms are in Brazil and Indonesia. Radial Phantoms are made elsewhere. It seems this issue should be revisited.
Finally, someone who explains the relationship between torque and power correctly. I remember a Ford truck commercial stating that "torque is power" and thinking to myself, no, power is power and power is torque and time. Intentionally dumbing down things for sales because math is scary, I guess. What you really want is area under the curve, getting as much torque as you can at the highest rpms you can. Engine designs and camshafts affect this, which is why they can be peaky on one side of the curve or the other.
Lovely to crush down myths about motorcycles and enjoying riding with a more conscious idea of your bike. Thanks for the great, although sometimes complex, explanations ❤
it's hard not to respond to the name "liberalsarecriminals" without going ballistic , but I won't cuz that puts me in the same class as you. I guess I'll just keep thinking about stuff with an open mind
It is important to pay attention to both torque and power because the former tells you the output of the engine at low revs and the latter at high revs. Of course having full output graphs of either measure would be preferable, but so long as manufacturers like to list peak figures only, you must pay attention to both.
Not quite. Torque tells you the potential work that can be achieved. Horsepower just tells you the potential rate by which that work can be achieved. Potentially. What matters is what can be achieved, it's rate of occurrence only comes after that first initial delivery of TORQUE to act on propelling an object from stationary. Potential to kinetic energy.
Jajajajajaja laughing from Spain, country where we pay something called “digital canon” a pillage that the government made for “we the people” to prevent piracy: Disc recorders: 0.33 euros. Specific disc recorders: 1.86 euros. Multifunction printers: 5.25 euros. Monofunction printers: 4.50 euros. Single recording discs: 0.08 euros. Discs that can be recorded several times: 0.10 euros. Versatile non-rewritable discs: 0.21 euros. Versatile rewritable discs: 0.28 euros. USB flash drives and similar: 0.24 euros. Tablets and mobile devices with touch screen: 3.15 euros. (iPads yep) Mobile phones: 1.10 euros. External hard drives: 6.45 euros. (Doesn’t matter capacity) Internal hard drives: 5.45 euros. We see it like a piracy license, so yeah tell me about free internet. We don’t pay anything else. We watch everything else one Black Pearl hit away.
Unless the front and rear rims are different sizes, it is an extremely poor decision to manufacture or require different tread depths front and rear. Imagine if a 4wd or AWD did this? Yes, most supercars have different tire sizes front and rear..
@@hillaryclinton2415 The front and rear tires are, in fact, different sizes and it's fine for them to have different tread depth. The rear tyre being the drive tyre gets a deeper tread because you want it to have more grip for launch. Also the tyres having tread depth being a bad thing was never mentioned or even a point in Ryan's video.
There’s more to it than that. Ryan also compared an expensive German-made radial to a budget cross-ply. Yes, they’re both Phantoms, but they‘re intended for classes of bikes with massive differences in weight and horsepower. Not to mention tube VS tubeless rims...
@L.V-Rider I guess a major tyre manufacturer like Perelli (among many others) don't know anything either because that's how they makes these tyres. And no, it doesn't matter if you get the ones made in Germany or the ones made in Brazil; it's 3mm tread depth in the front and 5mm tread depth on the back on these tyres making Ryan's point about the tread depth totally moot. Now if he were comparing the German radial tyres vs Brazilian bias-ply maybe he'd have a point but he didn't even seem to know about that.
Very well made video, here is another way of explaining the whole hp vs torque debate: What you feel in the seat of the bike is neither hp nor torque, its acceleration. Acceleration is mass/force. In this case mass is the mass of the rider+bike, and force is the torque the engine produces at the rear wheel/wheel radius. So its engine torque that you feel then? No. A moped engine can produce 10,000 ft/lbs of torque at the rear wheel, if the gearing is low enough. However, the moped would still be slow as hell, as the engine wont be able to spin the tire very fast(or even notably) at that low of a gearing. Therefor you need power(tq*rpm), or horsepower, in order to move the bike fast. Torque doesent mean anything without rpm, which means torque doesnt mean anything without horsepower. So horsepower is what you "feel". Although as mentioned in the video, a weird torque curve could make the bike feel slower than it should for its hp rating, because of a short "power band". Also high torqe engines may give the sensation of power, as they make more power at lower rpms, therefor giving the rider the sensation that the engine is producing a lot of power "without even trying", in other words at a low rpm.
wrong, electric motors have the peak torque at 0rpm, the faster you are spining the motor you feel less torque, the power delivery is similar to a capacitor
@@Erickzy Not true, electric motors maintain their torque across most of the rpm range than drop off at the end. If you imagine it graphed it is a horizontal line then it drops off at the end.
I don't know how I missed this video. I have watched all of your content and I still find one or two videos I have missed occasionally. I have seen many discussions of horsepower vs torque but this is the first one to adequately explain it concisely. Thank you.
I'm glad that someone as smart as you is able to make these quality videos for us, Even if I forgot what you told me aside from "factory tyres bad. Horsepower/torgue play means nothing."
I normally admire what you do but it seemed to me that in this particular case you've dropped a clanger. Your reply will be of interest. 1. Tread depth. You showed one tyre with a supposed tread depth of 3mm and another of 5mm. However you didn't say that one looked like a front tyre and the other a back tyre. The front tyre having 3mm and the rear having 5mm. Perfectly normal accepted practice as the rear does all the driving. 2. Made in Germany or made in Brazil ? Well Pirelli say their factory in Germany makes all the rear tyres for this model and Brazil makes all the front.
That guy sounds like a technical Jhonny Cash of the motorbikes. I just loved it, as an engineer Im really impressed with the simplicity and style when he is explaining the tech side of motorbikes. Brilliant!
wtf dealerships are you going to? idk about where you are but i haven't been to a single dealership here in Australia that doesn't offer test rides. How the hell are you supposed to know if you actually like what you're buying if you don't test ride it??
@@lalnablehector1285 welcome to the USA, where you can walk into a dealership and be told there are no test rides allowed, or see the salesman clipping his nails on his desk instead of getting up and asking you if you need help (actually happened)...
@@lalnablehector1285 Here in Belgium the strange thing is to find a dealership that allows test rides, they often don't even have bikes to test and if they have its only for the most popular models, so your choice is extremely limited, you either ask a friend or someone to try their bike or you have to rent...
@@lalnablehector1285 Belgium is a very small country with less than 500.000 registered motorcycles in total, there are very few official motorcycle dealerships because it is very expensive and there is not enough demand, it's often independent motorcycle repair shops or other that work in cooperation with big companies like yamaha or honda and can get official bikes for display and parts for repair. There isn't even enough demand to have an official dealership so even less budget for test rides. That is just the reality of it, doesn't mean there is no way to test bikes its just not as easy, it's not really their fault if there is no profitable bussines, that unfortunately how the world works...
4:43 I don't know whether to applaud you or roast you for using the SI "micrometre" instead of micron, all while standing in front of a blackboard dirtied with measurements in pounds. (As always, though, impeccable production. Thank you.)
Luckily with a Honda you don't have to worry about how much extra weight they left off with the tool kit, because they give you dick all for tools now anyway. My 86 Suzuki came with interchangeable screwdrivers, double ended wrenches in a ton of sizes and a spark plug socket. My 23 crf 300l came with.... An Allen key. That's the toolkit.
I dont ride, I dont own, and have no interest in doing so in the future. But your content keeps me here learning, excited, and wanting to binge every single educational video you have. Great job. Subscribed and watching everything you have incoming.
I was actually impressed that my gsx-s 750 was looking quite good compared to how other companies handle these topics. The given wet weight with full tank was just one kilogramm off, possibly due to the 90% fuel capacity requirement for the DIN norm and while shallower than the usually available S21 tire, the S21G that comes standard just feels like an S21 with 2 mm less tread depth. And while you could say that suzuki is decidedly silent about the engine‘s feel at lower rpm‘s (it‘s a 14 year old, slightly revised supersport engine, lower rpm‘s couldn‘t outaccelerate an A2 bike), they also seem to have no issue with every roadtest ever complaining about exactly that. And on their website they actually give the single most detailed spec sheet out of all manufacturers i‘ve seen so far, which is nice for an engineering student to see (me).
A rare youtuber who didn't ask to subscribe and like the video, but rather earned it.
He gave me $5 to subscribe, you lost out
Yup, and I'm finally committing! Watched enuf vids to like em all
So true @Daman Jeet. This guy is on a whole different level. Even if throws out random "nerd" stats as some would say, everything he says and represents is on point. Nice video @fortnine
I make it a habit when the first thing they say before the video even starts is to subscribe and like the first thing I do is dislike
@@dhruvadj agreed bro
I am an engineer, I couldn't agree more, you earn my subscription and respect, nice charisma and confidence in front of the camera 💪
Charisma
Wow you really fail as a engineer huh, couldn't recognize that the linear graph is of a electric motor. And that what he said about tyres is bs
Tell us MORE, ubdhav!
@Adrian Dobre Huh, an engineer that can’t spell, ‘Charisma’ You can declare anything you want in text. Doesn’t make it true.
@@udbhav122351d you spelled tire the un-American way, opinion disregarded
The "Torque vs. Horsepower" game is played with car manufactures as well. Nice explanation!!
The video also deserves a follow up on how difficult it is to have standardized engine performance graphs for objective comparisons because different dynos have different accuracy/drag/cooling etc and the performance of an internal combustion engine at any given time can vary substantially with atmospheric conditions.
Some people go apeshit on internet forums comparing bike/car A's dyno to bike/car B's dyno to establish which is superior based on a graph from dyno model X tested two months ago in one city and dyno model Z tested last week 3000 miles away, none of them stop to realize that each of those graphs could be like 5-10% off easily.
Some manufacturers do provide the full engine performance graphs, for instance Ducati and BMW do, but they are the "indicated" performance graphs (basically the theoretical ideal performance expected based on measuring/simulating the gas inside the combustion chambers) not actual print outs from an engine dyno test, largely because there is no universal industry standard equipment and test conditions for that so that could easily be fudged too.
torque vs horsepower is a fallacious arguement since they dont oppose each other, you really want to get the most of both.
honestly torque doesn't come into play unless you are trying to move heavy objects. when it comes to a bike hp is all that matters. when it comes to a semi torque is all that matters.
@@leetucker5788 no. Power is always the number that matters (for engines): torque can be converted, a gearbox, a torque converter, even the wheels itself does nothing else than converting revolutions and torque.
But the power will be the same on both ends.
when you put all your weight (i take mine ~100kg) on a lever of 1m, you are generating 1000Nm of torque!
but even the engine of a 125ccm-Bike (~10Nm) will (with correct gearing) turn you to nuts, because it has way more Power!
@@Coolgamer400 Except you're comparing static torque vs dynamic torque (and static torque, because in car or a motorcycle both are involved). That's useless comparison. You can read up on that. You can also read up on the issue of torque conversion. Yes, you do manipulate torque with various systems - like torque converter, gearing or wheels. However, all those elements are limited by other practical factors. If you go for really extreme gearing you'll be restricted to extremely slow moving vehicle. Torque converter's torque multiplication is limited by among other things size of it - and generally speaking isn't most efficient way to doing it. Similarly manipulating torque through wheel size is limited by shape of vehicle.
That's why torque as maximum value is important, but more important is torque curve. If your engine produces 10 Nm of torque, it might be in - say - 6000-6800 RPM band. If that's the case to maintain acceleration you need to constantly shift gears.. but you can only have so many gears (since it's simply limited by physical space you have for your gearbox). More importantly you lose time with each gearshift as well. In other words: the higher your engine maximum torque is, the flatter the curve and lower revs you get (close) to the top of it, the less compromises you need with gearbox and wheels.
Power is important as well, and honestly all factors have to be considered when 'judging' any given drive train (since engine is only part of entire system). Still, the point of start is engine, to which you adjust all the other factors to achieve desired results. Choosing wrong engine for application is just idiotic.
i don't even have a motorcycle and I binge this channel. this guy has a gift
You got one yet?
@@Rhythm24inch no:(
@@philj212 do it! buy the cheapest working one you can find 👍
@@Rhythm24inch wholesome
Love your content. Clearly put a great deal of thought and effort into it. Probably the only detail I would throw in there to tie two of the very astute points you made is that what you "feel" is acceleration. Acceleration is effectively how readily available power is at the current rpm, vs. how much mass (you plus the bike) you need to move. Thus if you have two bikes with identical powerbands across their rpm range... and one of them weighs 550lbs and the other 350lbs and you weigh 150... then the lighter bike will accelerate ~30% faster and you will feel that.
If you currently weigh 250lbs... let this be an incentive to you to get a massive free performance boost from your bike. Unless none of that matters to you...I'm at 220... so... it kinda matters to me... but I just ate another chocolate chip cookie sooooo....
Great advice at the end, try the bike, ride what you like.
Except for the fact that there IS no "current" RPM or speed, because, by definition, it has to be in a constant state of change (i.e. INCREASING) or there would BE no sensation of acceleration.
@@michaelscott356 I get what you're saying however you can determine instantaneous acceleration for any combination of rpm, gear, and speed at any explicit time.
Otherwise you wouldn't be able to generate a plot of acceleration from 0 to top speed. I.e. just because everything is changing doesn't prevent the ability to measure it or feel it and learn to keep things in x power band with y throttle to power out of a corner predictably.
You can't make acceleration comparisons only based on power to weight ratios. Aerodynamic drag is an important factor too. At high speeds that 30 % could be a lot less or a lot more, depending on the shapes of the bikes and riders.
@Janne Laakso I agree, go fast enough and drag literally and figuratively becomes the great equalizer.👍
Having said that, of course I can make acceleration comparisons, by keeping it basic. The whole "assume a frictionless spherical chicken in a vacuum" thing. Otherwise we get into wheel mass and radius, drag, etc. Even then our model won't be 100% without some empirical fudge factor.
Getting up to typical road speeds, wind drag with similar styles of motorcycle isn't the dominating factor. That's where my head was at so I ignored it. Already near highway speeds and faster then yeah it would definitely matter if one chicken was more slippery than the other. 😉
If what we feel is acceleration, and acceleration is proportional to torque / moment of inertia, the latter of which is constant throughout the RPM range, does that mean that we should look at the torque curves when comparing the enjoyability of two bikes?
Tires. I once heard that manufacturers had three requirements for tires - round, black and cheap. And that they were willing to compromise on the first two.
My entire riding time over 40 years only had one tyre requirement.................Must be cheap.
That describes all the girlies in my neighborhood.............
@@jcwoods2311 Boom boom tish.
Most people have no idea what tires are for, much less what makes a good or bad tire.
I think that was true thirty years ago. My last three motor vehicles, car and two motorcycles, have all had good tires. Maybe not the ultra premium stuff, but good tires.
This is the nerdiest motorcycle video that *an* enthusiast can watch. Measurements, law, and physics. Thanks.
Refined comment:
This is a very academic and informative video that most motorcycle enthusiasts can and will appreciate. The richness and diversity of subjects from mathematics to regional law are very detailed and informative. The
explanation of how manufacturers cut corners on cost/efficiently was quite brilliant and spicy. As a person who falls into the category of motorcycle enthusiasts, I salute you.
An
@@kaelshade4275 :)
I'm getting PTSD remembering my days struggling through highschool physics
@@kaelshade4275 fixed :)
I see what you did there, nice job!
You know who would never trick you?
Ryan and his beautiful smile
Who needs GoT when we have the Joffrey of Motorcycles making us eat cake? Haha
And that is where the beautiful part ends
Yes
Inte ens lite förvånad att det är du som har skrivit den här kommentaren haha
LOL
Finally, someone who seems to understand torque and hp!
Instead of the usual high torque engine is slow revving motor, high hp = speed.
The torque curve tells much more about an engines performance then many realise
Or, THAN many realize. :)
i mean im pretty sure he has a physics phd so that helps alot
@@burdazza2711 I dunno, theres far too many 'smart' people that should know better that insist that you need back pressure in an exhaust or you lose power...
This guy makes the best content I’ve seen in a long time. Really excellent. If tv were relevant today, I’d say he should have a show, but I suppose he already does.
Yeah but there were mistakes. Don’t believe everything you see blindly
Always something to learn. For anyone asking, from here on my weight is “without fluids” . . .
What do you mean overweight, I only have a dry weight of 45Kg (99Lbs),
Bart Bevelander technically 98 percent of your body is water, so maybe more like 2 pounds
And after taking a dump, too. And no heavy thoughts.
Freedoms Patriot 60% Of body weight is Water
Walter Wilkins
If you really want to tighten up your numbers, get rid of pounds or kilos, use Stone... I weigh under sixteen and a half (16.43) stone..... yep, I’m one skinny bitch at 230 pounds.... uh, I mean sixteen and a half stone....
One of the few content creators I’ve been genuinely excited for content from
Recommend 44 Teeth if to your taste
Same! I'm not even that much interested in bikes!
Thank you for explaining the tire codes. I usually get caught up trying to hunt down the OEM version of whatever tire my bike came with thinking it's better, but now I know it likely means the opposite.
Won’t always be the case. Which is why research is important.
Best show available. Keep up the great work Ryan, and never lose your sense of humor.
Thank you, Ryan for putting so much good research, planning and overall effort into your entertainment.
- sorry, I mean 'Helpful Videos For Motorcyclists' .
PS: My bike does thirty furlongs in three shakes of a lamb's tail - that's fast !
I wish you were my high school science teacher...I would have actually learned shit.
I swear man. Had absolutely no clue about the relation between torque and hp until Ryan explained. Ryan F9 the Bike Guy
the board of education would've fired Ryan F9 before the end of the first semester for being an entertaining teacher who connects with the students.
At least in my experience.
Completely agree.
What kind of English teacher would it have taken to get you to learn the difference between an ellipse and a semicolon?
@@slappy8941 I didn't even knew what an eclipse was until you mentioned it.
fastest click of my life when i see a fortnine video alert
Snap!!!!!
same
Ryan F9 & TheMissendenFlyer both upload today is a good day
Haha 😂 same here
slowest click of my life when i see a fortnite video alert
The only channel I click 'like' before watching.
Me 2...It can't be wrong, no matter the subject.
trusss
That’s a really boring comment. Someone makes it on every page.
@@daytonasayswhat9333 Ok boomer
Kamil Starikiewicz so watch the channel and enjoy it and don’t make a stupid comment about it.
"Your own experiences won't deceive you."
Laughs in ex-girlfriend
In her? You guys have funny sex 👌
Well the motorcycle cannot have its own motives or intentions so you are the only variable, while in a relationship there are two or more variables.
That's not a girlfriend, that's a narcissist.
Gotta luv a video where Ryan does the math! Great info, and I agree with..."just go ride, feel the tires, feel the weight, feel the power ...." etc. Every bike I have owned and rode had enough "power" to injure/hurt/kill if not careful. Another valuable video, thank you!
That's how i bought my FZ09. No specs, just feel. And i feel it every day. Thanks for an awesome video.
after riding the 09 for 8months on a daily basic and roughly 19k KM. I'll still get shocked by the power at times. and its not in A mode XD
I’ll second that. Great bike!
Funny enough, the fz-09's dyno graph actually looks like the 3rd graph in the video. Awesome bike.
www.cycleworld.com/2015/12/09/2016-yamaha-fz-09-naked-motorcycle-dyno-run-video-and-performance-chart/
It all comes down to this:
Thank you for your no nonsense approach and informative yet entertaining content. It is very much appreciated
As ever - brilliant video from you guys and some great marketing debunking done! Thumbs up from me!
Think you might want to watch Stuart Fillingham RUclips video on these tyres, totally different perspective with thorough research, hope this helps. 👍🏻
Bullshit! front tires have 3mm, REAR tires have 5 so you were comparing front and rear. Pirelli has factories in different countries Brazil, China, Germany etc. same tires. Sloppy "research" You should be ashamed Fortnine! See this video ruclips.net/video/YYXx9ogQ0lM/видео.html
Re the tyres, what a load of bollocks. Comparing front tyre tread to a rear tyre tread and factory that makes crossplys to one that makes radials. Investigation powers of a shopping trolley. Never let the truth get in the way of a food conspiracy theory eh!
TMF, Ryan does a lot of great work, but he might be way off on the Pirelli tires in this video. You might not want your approval stamped on this one.
...hmmm...and I thought you were one of the smart ones...
Thanks for an honest explanation of the correlation between HP and torque. You explained it clearly and in simple terms.
As an engineer and a rookie rider I am happy to finally hear some common sense on this topic rather than the traditional BS. Keep the good work!
made me laugh in less than 7 seconds, and then dropped real knowledge. I love this channel.
We need to petition RUclips for a "super like" button, as I feel the standard like button is inadequate for how much I enjoy this material.
So there is the answer to the often asked question in High School: "what am I ever going to use algebra for?"
This isn't algebra. It's physics.
@@anthonybluhm4724 it's an algebraic equation involving physics. It absolutely is algebra.
@@louisrussell3247 True, the algebra is inherent in the physics, But this is all about physics. It would be like saying poetry is just the alphabet.
@@anthonybluhm4724 algebra is math, a tool used by physicists to do physic stuff
Spreadsheets! You can use basic algebra to do spreadsheet formulas.
Thank you for this piece, Ryan. Not sure how I missed it back in January. This was spot on. I love your sense of humor, too! And the quality of your work is always top flight. Thanks again!
I really dig seeing all the formulas in the vids. Helps me (and others, I assume) clarify some of the mysteries of riding and all it encompasses. Thanks guys!
There’s nothing like an F9 video to remind me that I’m a modern day troglodyte with as much technical knowledge as a bag of toenail clippings.
Glad I'm not the only one feeling this way... I almost want to go back to the days when the only motorcycle videos I knew existed were motovlogging ones where the "hosts" were seemingly dumber than I... but then, I won't get to watch this amazing channel, so concessions have to be made.
We don't all have to be as smart and clever as Ryan FortNine. We just have to enjoy his antics and understand the points he's making. I don't consider myself dumb or inexperienced about motorcycling, but I can readily admit I've learned a lot from Ryan's videos while being simultaneously entertained!
@@hungwasson1399 Completely agree
By the way, I've seen some videos of Ryan making fun of himself where he had clips of him as a "stand in" model for motorcycle gear - jackets etc. - do you know, did Ryan used to work for one of the motorcycle retailers? If so, which one? I'm curious.
That is funny, LOL. R
Hi, after binge watching all, yes ‘all’ of your presentations over the last few weeks... as a born again mature rider from the UK, I have really enjoyed every one. I have done the research, got all of my gear, and my new bike is on order too. Keep up the great work.
What you getting then?
Luke McGowan... you may laugh... its a Zontes Phantom 250s. Was £3k new but got an ex demo model direct from Zontes UK, with 270 miles on it for £1500 with MOT and service, delivered to my nearest dealer about 40 miles away. I’m getting it next week... just to get me back on a bike again after 10 years... will have to see where we go from here. Cheers.
At some point when making this video someone thought... “Throw an empty beer bottle to make it more entertaining!” and it worked
And took a little shot at Harley owners, which is always appreciated by the majority of bike owners (who are not).
This is the adult equivalent to your favourite science TV Show you never wanted to miss as a kid. :D
I love his insight and his humour. He is never trying to sell just inform and that's is really appreciated.
Haven't ridden for a few years now, but I love this channel. It's holding me off until I can buy another bike. Great work.
I loved this video. I feel like I learned something without hating the experience for the first time in a while.
I really enjoy your videos. The quality and effort, your eloquence and vocabulary, but above all the sheer amount of hard knowledge they provide. Fantastic! Keep it up!
I have only one way to judge tyres : user review through motorcycle forums , they are the only review I trust .
Computer parts manufacturers have been caught using sweet tech deals for certain users to post positive content and reviews for their products on many forums,
it wouldn't surprise me if motorcycle companies did the same.
forum yes amazon dont trust.Too many fake reviews at amazon in fact there are companies selling this service to others fake reviews.
On the strength of this vid alone, I am a subscriber.
Total sarcasm sprinkled through gold nuggets of fact.
Pure brilliance.
Great as always, I'm amazed at the number of riders who will disagree when told about the tricks manufactures pull!
Hey RyanF9, hope you, your loved ones and the whole F9 crew have had a great holiday season, and I wish y'all the very best for 2020!
Cries in corona
This comment didn’t age well.
"what most riders desire is..."
except when reviewers actually get bikes like that they call them boring o.o
Bingo.
This is true for cb500f and e, for example
Aw shucks, consistent and predictable power. Boring. /s
Not quite. Reviewers are almost invariably biased. In the Uk, if Triumph makes a bike with a smooth torque and power curve (lets say speed triple) it is a refined, smooth and linear engine. When kawasaki make a Z900 with an immaculate power curve it "lacks character".
Best advice is, as Ryan says: try the bikes out because 99% of reviewers speak bullshit.
Ah, the age old problem of "reviewers" aka advertisers. More often than not any "review" you see will have loads of positive aspects and praises of a product with just a dash of the negative sides. Some may even feel like tech sheet readouts. In these cases you have to remember that they are very likely getting paid directly (sponsorships etc.) or through referral systems (sales volume). So if you come across with "reviewer" which always ends with a positive image of the product, you know that the person is financially constrained in their "review" and you should mainly focus on the negative sides of the product brought up. These "reviews" are one of the reasons why user based content has been in such a high regard, people want to cut through the manufacturers' and "reviewers'" bullshit and know if the product is actually any good.
I base most of my decisions on “is it pretty?”
FULLCIPHER That was me with pokemon when I was little.
That's why I bought a Moto Guzzi V7, put a lot of money into it trying to fix the cheap engineering, then sold it after six months. As the new owner rode away, I thought, "man, that's a pretty bike."
@@johnsumser9743 That is me.. :)
this shoud be the standard for everybody
That’s estrogen talking.
I just have to say, I have been riding my whole life and you are the most educated person I have ever seen when it comes to motorcycles. Brilliant channel... and thanks...
Honestly, after being on the web for 25 plus years (not counting the squeeling modem BBS years), this has to be one of the absolute best and most informative vids I've seen so far.
My hat off, not only for the information but also for the born-to-be-an-informative-and-easy-to-listen-to-guy who explains it all.
This was such a good video, I especially liked the power-torque explanation at the end. great job Ryan
You're my favorite engineering Professor. :)
Good one as usual. Wondered how Enfield put Pirelli as OEM fitment against Metzeler on my Thruxton. Which was worn out in 9000kms anyways
i forgot fortnine existed for a while until i saw a recommended video and how much i love this channel all came rushing back
You are the first person to explain Torque and Horsepower in a way that makes sense, instead of more numbers or an old analogy
Thanks for all your videos, very informational and provide everyone with a better understanding of all things motorcycle related. I appreciate the fact that you equip the viewers with facts backed up with logical scientifical proof and don't tell the viewer what to think but guide them to the conclusion that they should be making on their own with what has been provided. Great editing, easy to watch as well! I look forward to your videos! Thank you.
Just "scientific" does the job. (don't fall prey to the old American theory that "more is better", especially when it comes to syllables! :-)
Just such good advice - it's taken me four years to figure out that riding a bike is the only true way to understand what it's like 🤦♂️
Dang...I think this dude just taught me more than I ever learned in school.
Judging by the pfp, I seriously doubt that you're joking.
@@paulcarmi8130 maybe it reflects equally on the school. :-) but surly I learned something new today, about the ideal torque and HP curves.
How many classes did you take regarding motorcycle companies?
This guy actually cares about the rider and put more time and effort into research and give you gold content without fluff and bs. ❤
What Ryan may have forgotten to mention is that when a manufacturer publishes HP and torque numbers, or even the complete charts, they measure the engine output at the crank, bolting the crank directly on the dyno. Thereby bypassing the power losses in the primary drive, clutch, gearbox, and final drive; those usually sap around 15% of output.
This means that 5 kW of power (peak) is dissipated into the drive train of a Ninja 400. That's a lot of heat and noise
The information nobody knew they needed to know!! You’re badass!
The absolute BEST explanation I have ever heard! 👍😎
As an engineer, I applaud your bold stance on beige jumpers/sweaters. Rock on!
Thorough and entertaining.
Excellent.
Back in my courier days I put some (slightly) used, very sticky German rubber on an MZ 250 2-stroke single. It was TRANSFORMED. A commuter Putt-Putt become something I could throw into bends. I didn't know about the trickery with OEM tyres, but high-end tyres on an old bike do take it to another level.
Thank you for everything. Would we ever be able to get a video detailing how exhaust works with back pressure, sound, etc?
Good content. But LOVE the bloopers at the end!!! Absolutely hilarious! Keep em coming!
"Nyet" had me laughing so hard
callback to the Ural vid, called it!
You called?
nyetloki nyet!
Your vids are the greatest thing on RUclips in the motorcycle space. Hands down!
Such works of art demand credits for the whole team involved in the making.
you can find torque graph for your bike by looking for aftermarket exhaust, they will put stock and aftermarket to show you how the fake carbon fiber can give you 5 hp at the top end
cosimo ricci at the cheap price of $800 or $1500 of you add a tuner..
A lot of the dyno numbers and charts thrown out by aftermarket parts sellers are pure bullshit, just like their claims of gains.
Without tuning the ECU or other things, horse power gain in nothing more than pure marketing smoke, there is no proof that it automatically means more power, in fact it is more probable you lose than gain, so those graphs may also be a deception
@@alexduey7868 The guys commenting on your suggestion missed the point.
Sure, there might be a 5HP difference ehre or there, shure it might be total BS. who cares. at least we got to see a 'relatively accurate' graphical depiction of the power/torque curves, which was what the OP intended. It's a lot better than seeing a 'peak' number.
adri dell with an aftermarket exhaust your engine will run with more air
I don't know why I'm just attracted to his videos.
I just watch them on repeat and because of this I bought bikes I shouldn't have bought
This is the only channel that I go back and watch old videos multiple times
What bike did you buy?
@@tomraider099 I already had the classic Royal Enfield (it was my brother's and I barely used it). But then I bought the Himalayan(supposed to be the best Royal Enfield out there).
But honestly both of these are equally bad. I bought them because of the brand's popularity in my country(India).
But after seeing the motorcycle world with a better view(thanks to Ryan) , I'm planning to sell these and purchase one of those lightweight suzuki trials or Husqvarna's(Because I'm a skinny 18 year old).
@अल्ली X ahh a man of culture i must say. . .
@अल्ली X it's fun to ride that in congested cities like mine(Ghaziabad, U.P.).
Ryan, Do you intend to revisit the article about the Pirellis on the Royal Enfield in light of Stuart Fillingham's recent RUclips video?
Coming from Stuart Filis video as well this needs to be addressed and any mistakes made will not be the end of anybodys career but for the betterment of the culture, they need to be corrected if need be. Thanks.
@@funkthat Agreed. Ryan does a lot of great work, but we all make mistakes. If he made one here, he should acknowledge it, apologize, and we can all move on.
Fortnine is a gift of pleasantness to the motorcycling world. Informative, and funny, and calm to listen to.
Great presentation! I’m a mechanical engineer and think the Triumph’s 3 cylinder engines have one of the best power curves!
7:42 "and when torque is moving, that IS horsepower. One is a function of the other". I've tried to explain this so many times, so many people just can't understand it.
Torque and horsepower are the same on a graph at 5252 rpm. Race engines want high power just below the redline. Street engines want lots of torque from idle to 30 mph, 60 mph and to 80 mph. The power for a street engine near redline rpm is useless, especially if it gets 5 miles per gallon or less to do it. See a horsepower and torque graph for the new Goldwing- very good for public roads, for a high price.
Torque tells how much work can be done.
HP how fast work can be done.
Electric motor gives max. torque all the time from 0 RPM to max RPM, but zero RPM work will never be done.
"But muh torqueeeee !!!" always seems to scream louder than any sane explanation.. cant win all battles
Torque is just a fancy lever. Alone it can't do much.
@@XtreeM_FaiL it is funny that Harley Davidson advertises torque, and everyone else advertises horsepower. To me it is more about price, weight, reliability and comfort. I am most attracted to the inline 3 Yamahas, but own an older Kawasaki ZZR600 inline 4 for 75 mph, and a Honda Shadow 600cc VLX for 60 mph.
Thank you for saying how listing only peak torque is useless. We need to know a lot more to get an idea of what the bike is like.
I think Ryan summed it up perfectly at 09:34: "...salesmen are salesmen, so just go ride". For most motorcyclists the choice of bike is an emotional one, with a little economics thrown in. So what the thing feels like, on the road/track/trail and beneath your backside, is probably the most important consideration.
FortNine and commenters please refer to Stuart Fillingham's retort to the claims about the Interceptor's Pirelli's, "News on NORTON and Pirelli Phantoms Sportscomp tyres. Is RE tricking you?" It appears that Ryan may have goofed and compared an over the counter rear tire to an OEM Interceptor front tire. All Pirelli Phantoms apparently have 3mm tread depth on the front tires and 5mm on the rear no matter where you get them (OEM or over the counter). After doing the necessary research, Stuart pointed out that the Interceptors have spoked wheels and thus use cross-plain ply tires. He found out that the only Pirelli plants making cross-plain Phantoms are in Brazil and Indonesia. Radial Phantoms are made elsewhere.
It seems this issue should be revisited.
9:30 ruclips.net/video/YYXx9ogQ0lM/видео.html
Finally, someone who explains the relationship between torque and power correctly. I remember a Ford truck commercial stating that "torque is power" and thinking to myself, no, power is power and power is torque and time. Intentionally dumbing down things for sales because math is scary, I guess.
What you really want is area under the curve, getting as much torque as you can at the highest rpms you can. Engine designs and camshafts affect this, which is why they can be peaky on one side of the curve or the other.
Lovely to crush down myths about motorcycles and enjoying riding with a more conscious idea of your bike. Thanks for the great, although sometimes complex, explanations ❤
So glad Ryan didn’t take a long break like last year.
How does a salesman say F You??
"Trust me"
😐
it's hard not to respond to the name "liberalsarecriminals" without going ballistic , but I won't cuz that puts me in the same class as you. I guess I'll just keep thinking about stuff with an open mind
Wohooooo 3 minutes and i am here best way to start my evening
love your new direction in your channel, less top tens and talking about the real deal and calling the bullshits in the industry
Fortunately, there are Dyno analyses of several models out there. Congrats again!
It is important to pay attention to both torque and power because the former tells you the output of the engine at low revs and the latter at high revs. Of course having full output graphs of either measure would be preferable, but so long as manufacturers like to list peak figures only, you must pay attention to both.
Not quite. Torque tells you the potential work that can be achieved.
Horsepower just tells you the potential rate by which that work can be achieved. Potentially.
What matters is what can be achieved, it's rate of occurrence only comes after that first initial delivery of TORQUE to act on propelling an object from stationary. Potential to kinetic energy.
How tf is this content free, like I feel guilty watching this. And I can’t support the site because I’m in the US!
And even I, over here in Germany, the country full of people thinking everything is free on the internet, feel guilty, too
Jajajajajaja laughing from Spain, country where we pay something called “digital canon” a pillage that the government made for “we the people” to prevent piracy:
Disc recorders: 0.33 euros.
Specific disc recorders: 1.86 euros.
Multifunction printers: 5.25 euros.
Monofunction printers: 4.50 euros.
Single recording discs: 0.08 euros.
Discs that can be recorded several times: 0.10 euros.
Versatile non-rewritable discs: 0.21 euros.
Versatile rewritable discs: 0.28 euros.
USB flash drives and similar: 0.24 euros.
Tablets and mobile devices with touch screen: 3.15 euros. (iPads yep)
Mobile phones: 1.10 euros.
External hard drives: 6.45 euros. (Doesn’t matter capacity)
Internal hard drives: 5.45 euros.
We see it like a piracy license, so yeah tell me about free internet. We don’t pay anything else. We watch everything else one Black Pearl hit away.
Don’t say that.
@@Lynch84
Well, this is unusual 😶
the content is free to watch but they are making money from it. Do you really not know that?
It turns out the Pirelli Phantoms have 3mm tread depth on the front tyre and 5mm tread depth on the rear tyre no matter where you buy them from.
Unless the front and rear rims are different sizes, it is an extremely poor decision to manufacture or require different tread depths front and rear. Imagine if a 4wd or AWD did this? Yes, most supercars have different tire sizes front and rear..
@@hillaryclinton2415
The front and rear tires are, in fact, different sizes and it's fine for them to have different tread depth. The rear tyre being the drive tyre gets a deeper tread because you want it to have more grip for launch.
Also the tyres having tread depth being a bad thing was never mentioned or even a point in Ryan's video.
There’s more to it than that. Ryan also compared an expensive German-made radial to a budget cross-ply. Yes, they’re both Phantoms, but they‘re intended for classes of bikes with massive differences in weight and horsepower. Not to mention tube VS tubeless rims...
@@hillaryclinton2415 wrong... uneven wear due to more drive from the rear... bikes aren't AWD... AWD/4WD cars are.
@L.V-Rider
I guess a major tyre manufacturer like Perelli (among many others) don't know anything either because that's how they makes these tyres. And no, it doesn't matter if you get the ones made in Germany or the ones made in Brazil; it's 3mm tread depth in the front and 5mm tread depth on the back on these tyres making Ryan's point about the tread depth totally moot.
Now if he were comparing the German radial tyres vs Brazilian bias-ply maybe he'd have a point but he didn't even seem to know about that.
Very well made video, here is another way of explaining the whole hp vs torque debate:
What you feel in the seat of the bike is neither hp nor torque, its acceleration. Acceleration is mass/force. In this case mass is the mass of the rider+bike, and force is the torque the engine produces at the rear wheel/wheel radius. So its engine torque that you feel then? No. A moped engine can produce 10,000 ft/lbs of torque at the rear wheel, if the gearing is low enough. However, the moped would still be slow as hell, as the engine wont be able to spin the tire very fast(or even notably) at that low of a gearing. Therefor you need power(tq*rpm), or horsepower, in order to move the bike fast. Torque doesent mean anything without rpm, which means torque doesnt mean anything without horsepower.
So horsepower is what you "feel". Although as mentioned in the video, a weird torque curve could make the bike feel slower than it should for its hp rating, because of a short "power band". Also high torqe engines may give the sensation of power, as they make more power at lower rpms, therefor giving the rider the sensation that the engine is producing a lot of power "without even trying", in other words at a low rpm.
No doubt you're the next james may. You style looks exact like him. Well we love his style and absolutely love you narrating for your own videos
9:03
What most riders unknowingly desire is an electric motorcycle.
Exactly! I was surprised he didn’t go there at the end with that constant torque graph.
wrong, electric motors have the peak torque at 0rpm, the faster you are spining the motor you feel less torque, the power delivery is similar to a capacitor
Recorded exhaust sound?
@@Erickzy This is not true of brush less direct current motors but I dont know of any EVs using those.
@@Erickzy Not true, electric motors maintain their torque across most of the rpm range than drop off at the end. If you imagine it graphed it is a horizontal line then it drops off at the end.
I love this guy !
अल्ली X that’s ok. Love is love
No need to leave the tool kit out of my new Kawasaki when they weighed it...The "tool kit" consists of a single Allen wrench. LOL.
blipco5 Da fuk?
did you buy your bike at Ikea? ;-)
Cause they don't break
Spad562 In my country one of the Kawasaki's nickname is Wikakasa. That loosely means a pile of problems. :)
My Kawasaki Ninja, had multiple wrenches, Allen keys, a screwdriver. Probably weighed about 2-3 pounds.
I don't know how I missed this video. I have watched all of your content and I still find one or two videos I have missed occasionally. I have seen many discussions of horsepower vs torque but this is the first one to adequately explain it concisely. Thank you.
I'm glad that someone as smart as you is able to make these quality videos for us, Even if I forgot what you told me aside from "factory tyres bad. Horsepower/torgue play means nothing."
The horsepower torque lecture was so refreshing. Go physics!
Ryan you need to check out Stuart Fillingham's video from earlier today disputing everything you said about Royal Enfield and Pirelli tyres
I normally admire what you do but it seemed to me that in this particular case you've dropped a clanger. Your reply will be of interest.
1. Tread depth. You showed one tyre with a supposed tread depth of 3mm and another of 5mm. However you didn't say that one looked like a front tyre and the other a back tyre. The front tyre having 3mm and the rear having 5mm. Perfectly normal accepted practice as the rear does all the driving.
2. Made in Germany or made in Brazil ? Well Pirelli say their factory in Germany makes all the rear tyres for this model and Brazil makes all the front.
Interesting!
True, examined and explained in depth here: 9:30 ruclips.net/video/YYXx9ogQ0lM/видео.html
I absolutely suck at math but I literally followed that whole equation as it was explained.
You are impressive Sir ~
That guy sounds like a technical Jhonny Cash of the motorbikes. I just loved it, as an engineer Im really impressed with the simplicity and style when he is explaining the tech side of motorbikes. Brilliant!
Unfortunately, lots of dealerships don't allow test rides...
wtf dealerships are you going to? idk about where you are but i haven't been to a single dealership here in Australia that doesn't offer test rides. How the hell are you supposed to know if you actually like what you're buying if you don't test ride it??
@@lalnablehector1285 welcome to the USA, where you can walk into a dealership and be told there are no test rides allowed, or see the salesman clipping his nails on his desk instead of getting up and asking you if you need help (actually happened)...
@@lalnablehector1285 Here in Belgium the strange thing is to find a dealership that allows test rides, they often don't even have bikes to test and if they have its only for the most popular models, so your choice is extremely limited, you either ask a friend or someone to try their bike or you have to rent...
@@adridell what the hell sorta dealership is that?! with that attitude they don't even want to sell them by the sound of it.
@@lalnablehector1285 Belgium is a very small country with less than 500.000 registered motorcycles in total, there are very few official motorcycle dealerships because it is very expensive and there is not enough demand, it's often independent motorcycle repair shops or other that work in cooperation with big companies like yamaha or honda and can get official bikes for display and parts for repair. There isn't even enough demand to have an official dealership so even less budget for test rides. That is just the reality of it, doesn't mean there is no way to test bikes its just not as easy, it's not really their fault if there is no profitable bussines, that unfortunately how the world works...
4:43 I don't know whether to applaud you or roast you for using the SI "micrometre" instead of micron, all while standing in front of a blackboard dirtied with measurements in pounds. (As always, though, impeccable production. Thank you.)
Roast me. The imperial system deserves no mercy. ~RF9
Luckily with a Honda you don't have to worry about how much extra weight they left off with the tool kit, because they give you dick all for tools now anyway. My 86 Suzuki came with interchangeable screwdrivers, double ended wrenches in a ton of sizes and a spark plug socket. My 23 crf 300l came with.... An Allen key. That's the toolkit.
I dont ride, I dont own, and have no interest in doing so in the future.
But your content keeps me here learning, excited, and wanting to binge every single educational video you have.
Great job. Subscribed and watching everything you have incoming.
I was actually impressed that my gsx-s 750 was looking quite good compared to how other companies handle these topics. The given wet weight with full tank was just one kilogramm off, possibly due to the 90% fuel capacity requirement for the DIN norm and while shallower than the usually available S21 tire, the S21G that comes standard just feels like an S21 with 2 mm less tread depth. And while you could say that suzuki is decidedly silent about the engine‘s feel at lower rpm‘s (it‘s a 14 year old, slightly revised supersport engine, lower rpm‘s couldn‘t outaccelerate an A2 bike), they also seem to have no issue with every roadtest ever complaining about exactly that. And on their website they actually give the single most detailed spec sheet out of all manufacturers i‘ve seen so far, which is nice for an engineering student to see (me).
Who is right about the Pirelli Phantoms you or uncle Stu?
He literally showed video evidence of the lower tread depth.
@@ComradeAlpharius I hope you're referring to Stuart, because he did show the tread depths are the same when you use the correct tire.