As an Army helicopter pilot in the 1970's my issued weapon was a S&W .38 revolver, holstered in my survival vest. Not exactly an inspired self-defense tool so the first step was to acquire something to supplement that; that little 608 looks as if it would've been a welcome choice because yes, I thought I might get into a gun fight. Thanks for an informative video.
Crazy how times change. I was as well on 60s until 2022. We had the Beretta M9 as well as a M4A1 Hopefully that gets updated even more for future generations.
I would agree in your positions. Just because you have 80 rounds of 5.56 in a FA-capable weapon doesn't mean you would use it at the drop of a hat. It would still be best to go to ground and wait for the rescue forces to grab you. BUT, I have also read several instances in which downed pilots in Vietnam could've used such firepower to continue their E & E but were captured by one or two enemy. This wouldn't be much help against a platoon of NVA Regulars, but against a few surprised VC or farmers, all the difference in the world.
I remember arguments that survival firearms should be easy to manipulate with one hand in case the pilot is injured, and so the rationale for issuing revolver to pilots - did anyone actually talk about this back then or does it seem more like another myth?
@@Chilly_Billy I'd assume the pistols/revolvers were mostly for exactly that. Threaten one guy to steal his car/bike/boat or stop him from alerting someone else. The rifle would have the added benefit of being much better for hunting or ambushing a pair of enemies. Like you can shoot one guy before they notice you and then have a reasonable chance against the second guy. Anything beyond that you and starting a gun fight wouldnt help your odds anyway, no matter what gun you carried. But the AR also has the downside of not being concealable. Maybe not much of a thing in Vietnam because american pilots would have stood out anyway because of their size and ethnicity. But in a war against the soviets (or for Scott O'grady who got shot down in serbia), they could have maybe found some civilian clothing and passed as a local at least from a distance, while still concealed carrying a pistol, but not an AR.
@@ForgottenWeapons Not to argue with gun Jesus, but if I'm not mistaken, 605 was the first carbine & 607 is the first TRUE carbine with a generation 1 collapsible stock. Ever since you began ForgottenWeapons, you've always found videos which draw me right back to this channel. In fact, you somewhat "stole" the idea to use the Spuhr BAM/Aimpoint M4 system on the Max11/15 IRM lol! After the 3 year wait from Lage to get ATF approval on the receiver, you beat me to the punch by like 3 months. Anyways, as always, awesome video Ian. ;)
@@rexringtail471 Aside from a Colt 601, I've been slowly getting the pieces together for 604, 605, and GX-5857. The latter of which I've got a soft spot in my heart for. That stock (unfortunately it is a repro, not pinned to the lower) and the cut handguards are so unique! It's an 80% lower, and it'll look the part at least. The real question is to bother with a title II moderator, or just run a 3 prong..
I may have already seen Jonathan Ferguson, the keeper of firearms and artillery at the Royal Armouries Museum in the UK, which houses a collection of thousands of iconic weapons from throughout history's video on this one but damn straight i'll watch another one
Yes and he gets on my nerves wearing those gay gloves. The weapons he reviews are nice but not like the Thompson 1928 used in the St. Valentines Day Massacre 😅😅
Well, now the Air Force has the GAU/5A Survivor rifle and it’s way cooler, but this variant of the M-16 looks very retro and I really like it so thank you Ian
"GAU-5/A (also known as the Colt Model 610 XM177) and GAU-5A/A (also known as the Colt Model 649)" GAU standing for "Gun, Automatic" in USAF nomenclature.
@@FirstDaggerTo make matters confusing, the USAF has also introduced a new GAU-5A named the Aircrew Self Defense Weapon. It is a modified M4 with the FAB folding pistol grip, Cry Havoc quick release barrel system, a BCM 12.5” carbine government profile barrel, and the Midwest Industries G3ML10 free-float hand guard. Other than the pistol grip, all the changes are pretty much on the front of the rifle. Same basic concept as the 608, though instead of using the takedown pins you have a quick-detach barrel. The ASDW is shorter than the 608 stowed, as the current USAF ejection seats are restricted to a 16x14x3.5”, and there’s other things inside like flares and flashlights.
Not taking firepower because you don't WANT to get into a gun fight is like not wearing your seat belt because you don't want to get into a car accident. Better to have it and use it the best you can.
@@Mute_Nostril_Agony I should have addressed this in my own video on this thing - it was, believe it or not, handed in to police in 1968. COD Donnington was the clearing house for the big Firearms Act 1968 amnesty - the Pattern Room at Enfield rescued it from that, and we acquired it along with the rest of that collection in 2005.
You know, normally i'm not much for the Ar-15 platform, and would usually just skip over, but this thing has something about it that looks pretty damn cool and got my interest.
Thanks for this. I've started carrying an AR in a tennis bag in the back my SUV. It wouldn't quite fit in the bag, so I separated the upper and lower. Perfect!
Well you are comparing a prototype from 1964 to a refined standard model from the mid 1980's. The XM-177E1 had the same problems as the 608 due to the 10½" barrel and improperly sized gas port.
Wow another great video! You can really see All of the features it shares with the early XM-177E1's. I went with the GAU-5/A/A version of the XM-177E2 using Brownells and Luth-Ar parts with a Essential Arms aluminum CAR stock for my build. I was really surprised how awesome,light and nimble the early carbines were compared side by side with the later M-4 SOPMOD Block1 and Block2.
Thanks for providing us with the insight of the Colt Model 608 Ian, it may have not been adopted for US military service but it's still lovely to look at not to mention that a pistol wouldn't have been useful when hostiles are engaging the pilots especially those equipped with something like the AK or its Squad Automatic Weapon variant, the RPK.
My did was a MSGT in the 102nd ARCOM in the late 1970s He flew around the Midwest frequently to other Army Reserves facilities. The pilot and copilot were recent Vietnam vets. The copilot told him he had a cut down M2 carbine he put on his lap as a “hot LZ” survival weapon. He shot out his windshield several times when the vc. Got to close. An M2 would have been a great pilot survival weapon. With 3 banana clips 90 rounds.
Lol so few people on this channel know what you mean though 👊👊 literally was watching a playthrough of it for a bit B4 seeing your comment the universe is weird like that
@@hateferlife it’s something I never really though I thought of until I saw FocusTrips video on the 12.5 inch mid length rifle he built for full time suppression
According to Colt engineer Rob Roy, the "moderators" only averaged a 1dB noise "reduction"; imperceptible to the human ear. However, that was enough for the BATF to "rule" them to be "Silencers" requiring Serial Numbers, NFA Registration separate from the firearm itself, and payment of a $200 "NFA Registration and Transfer 'Tax'."
@@johnjohnsn7633 Not quite. It actually produced 1dB MORE than the M16 when fitted to the SMG. The official report stated that the 20" M16 produced 124dB, the 10" XM with moderator made 125dB. The point wasn't to be quieter than the M16 - it was to get sound and flash with a very short barrel down to similar levels to the M16. So the moderator is in fact quite effective as a sound suppressor for its size.
My old man flew f4s and f16s and was issued a 38. He has been into the super light weight ar builds lately so I'm sure he would be a fan of this. On a side note, I guess guys in his squadron were given the option to buy browning high powers and carry those instead. He still kicks himself for not buying one.
I think it makes more sense when thinking of helicopter pilots or other close ground support aircraft where the air crew is more likely to be found in active combat and link up with the infantry they were supporting. A fighter jet or bomber deep in enemy territory would be better off with a really good suppressed single shot.
I’ve read a memoir about OH-6 “Loach” scout helicopter ops in Vietnam, and the author had very nice things to say about what he called the CAR-15. Their job was to locate the enemy by drawing their fire, so the scout helicopters were shot down A LOT, very close to the enemy, but they were always operating with attack and transport helicopters, so help was always close by. The scouts carried single pilot and a crew chief in the back seat with an M-60 that was usually secured only with a bungee cord. This gave the crew two full auto weapons to use when (not if) they were shot down, which the author said was usually sufficient to keep “Charlie” away from their position until someone could rescue them, which usually happened within minutes.
I would, personally, like to see all the considerations for a Vietnam Era survival rifles, both in individual videos, and a compilation video showing all of them. The compilation video can cover all, in brief, with the "winner" as the last rifle.
Excellent post. Correct, the idea of a firefight with fewer than four 30x rds mags does not work. But a 22lr AR7 is an excellent alternative. You might look at another post with the AR7 and what SERE is to convey the design philosophy coupled with solid training and fitness. As always, well done.
It's spiritual successor, the Daniel Defense GAU-5A, is now being fielded with the USAF for pilots and aircrews. If even disassembles in a similar way. Even fighter pilots have one and four 30 rd mags under their ejector seat just in case. It's a better security blanket than a 9mm pistol, that's for sure. That's probably why the Air Force went back to the idea, to give pilots a better sense of safety and comfort if they're downed in an increasingly hostile warzone.
I don't think I ever left a comment under this channel. I grew up with books on "gun enthusiasm", in an ex-soviet household, IL. today, when we are saturated with an endless barrage of media, I strive to only consume those 1% pieces that would broaden my perspective.
@@KesssuliIn the US if it were a legal full auto then that covers everything so yeah you can put basically anything on it or take off whatever you please.
@@zxggwrt I think the idea there was not to call stock as brace because civilian classifications. In eu area rifle can have 11.9 inch barrel and still be a normal rifle. Have seen couple so called pistols imported from states with brace as stock. Luckily those can be throwed far as you can and switched for something more functional.
There was a Special Survival kit developed,With Backbacks,food,compass,med kits, and M-1 Carbines for Aircrew down in deep heavy jungle or heavy Anti-aircraft guns about.these kits were packaged in Airdropable Pods to give to Aircrews in Certain situations,some say from in "China"to Hike out to Helicopter suitable Rescue zones! Don't know if they were ever used,but I Saw them at a few Airbases in Thailand and one was deployed for use from carrier Aircraft. My tour S.E.Asia'71-'76 !!
@@ethanarias2911 Evidently you never paid enough attention to how the bolt carrier group is designed, else you'd know that the recess visible through the ejection port is there so you can use your thumb to gently push the bcg forward in the event of a failure to seat. Otherwise, if the thumb recess is insufficient, you should pull the charging handle to eject the faulty round rather than hammer onto a button which forces the faulty round into battery, causing a malfunction. The jam enhancer did not save Rittenhouse's life, no matter how much people like to claim otherwise.
@@Riley_Mundt he is literally on video slapping the forward assist to close the bolt before taking a shot that likely saved his life, the thumb recess, while useful, is not as fast to use and more likely to injure the operator when used under duress. Thats why men with common sense came up with a handy little button you can slap in a hurry. The forward assist is there because you *might* need it, and you may need it quickly, much like the rifle it is attached to. Getting rid of a potential quick solution to a rifle malfunction is not worth the ounce or two it will save.
I think I read the 10.3 inch barrel requirement came from guys who board ships and who said its the minimum length to be able to go through a doorway on a ship
What Ian says at the end about arming pilots with fighting guns is exactly what I thought when the clip started. Training pilots -- and especially fighter or bomber pilots -- is so expensive nowadays in terms of both time and money that risking them getting killed in a gunfight is idiotic. Even if they got caught, there would be a good chance of getting them back through a POW swap or -- as in e.g. Vietnam or Iraq -- getting them back after the conflict was over. The old M6 Aircrew Survival Weapon with an o/u .22 Hornet and .410-gauge shotgun barrel was more in line with a survival weapon usable for hunting if downed in the wilderness; the only weakness was the small number of shells (9 Hornets and 4 .410's).
08:06 I read in Flypast magazine a F-105 Thunderchief pilot got shot down in North Vietnam and died in a small arms firefight with NVA troops (Operation Rolling Thunder)
yes, I was thinking, some kind of 45 with a real silencer would be more usable. Both for hunting and for breaking away from a pursuit if it comes to that
My grandfather flew A6s from Vietnam up until Desert Storm and he told me some of the weapons pilots would carry back then, everything from Thompson sub machine guns, M1 Garands and sawed off shotguns.
Downed pilots should definitely not look to get into gunfights, but I'm sure they would appreciate the extra firepower when they're forced into one. Hopefully, they will get a CSAR team to help them, but at some point, they may need to fight their way to an LZ.
So when will someone start making a kit to make an AR into a replica of the 608? It looks pretty cool. I understand the point about a pilot trying to avoid gunfights. But if they got discovered or cornered they might appreciate being able to eliminate as many hostiles as possible before they can't anymore. Seems like these days an MP7 or something like that would be a great pilot's weapon. Small, light, light ammo, and pretty effective at self defense range.
The most tubular AR I have ever seen
Just like the internet; all made of tubes.
Choobz ftw💪
Totally tubular bro 🤙
toob
Absolutely tubulated.
As an Army helicopter pilot in the 1970's my issued weapon was a S&W .38 revolver, holstered in my survival vest. Not exactly an inspired self-defense tool so the first step was to acquire something to supplement that; that little 608 looks as if it would've been a welcome choice because yes, I thought I might get into a gun fight. Thanks for an informative video.
Crazy how times change. I was as well on 60s until 2022. We had the Beretta M9 as well as a M4A1 Hopefully that gets updated even more for future generations.
I would agree in your positions. Just because you have 80 rounds of 5.56 in a FA-capable weapon doesn't mean you would use it at the drop of a hat. It would still be best to go to ground and wait for the rescue forces to grab you. BUT, I have also read several instances in which downed pilots in Vietnam could've used such firepower to continue their E & E but were captured by one or two enemy. This wouldn't be much help against a platoon of NVA Regulars, but against a few surprised VC or farmers, all the difference in the world.
I remember arguments that survival firearms should be easy to manipulate with one hand in case the pilot is injured, and so the rationale for issuing revolver to pilots - did anyone actually talk about this back then or does it seem more like another myth?
A friend of mine who was in Vietnam told me of the time he returned fire with his .38 revolver.
He survived by some miracle.
@@Chilly_Billy I'd assume the pistols/revolvers were mostly for exactly that. Threaten one guy to steal his car/bike/boat or stop him from alerting someone else.
The rifle would have the added benefit of being much better for hunting or ambushing a pair of enemies. Like you can shoot one guy before they notice you and then have a reasonable chance against the second guy. Anything beyond that you and starting a gun fight wouldnt help your odds anyway, no matter what gun you carried.
But the AR also has the downside of not being concealable. Maybe not much of a thing in Vietnam because american pilots would have stood out anyway because of their size and ethnicity. But in a war against the soviets (or for Scott O'grady who got shot down in serbia), they could have maybe found some civilian clothing and passed as a local at least from a distance, while still concealed carrying a pistol, but not an AR.
I admire the commitment to making a gun that's equal parts stock and barrel.
My absolute favorite is the model 607. One of the first adjustable stock AR’s. Only 2 positions but still really cool.
I covered the 607 a little while back...ruclips.net/video/ajQhLYgohGM/видео.html
@@ForgottenWeapons Not to argue with gun Jesus, but if I'm not mistaken, 605 was the first carbine & 607 is the first TRUE carbine with a generation 1 collapsible stock. Ever since you began ForgottenWeapons, you've always found videos which draw me right back to this channel. In fact, you somewhat "stole" the idea to use the Spuhr BAM/Aimpoint M4 system on the Max11/15 IRM lol! After the 3 year wait from Lage to get ATF approval on the receiver, you beat me to the punch by like 3 months. Anyways, as always, awesome video Ian. ;)
@@rodgersmith1573 Colt called the 607 the SMG, and the 605 the Carbine
I built my PSA beater to look like a 607-- the coolest looking AR in my opinion. I love the baby-sized triangular handguard.
@@rexringtail471 Aside from a Colt 601, I've been slowly getting the pieces together for 604, 605, and GX-5857. The latter of which I've got a soft spot in my heart for. That stock (unfortunately it is a repro, not pinned to the lower) and the cut handguards are so unique! It's an 80% lower, and it'll look the part at least. The real question is to bother with a title II moderator, or just run a 3 prong..
I may have already seen Jonathan Ferguson, the keeper of firearms and artillery at the Royal Armouries Museum in the UK, which houses a collection of thousands of iconic weapons from throughout history's video on this one but damn straight i'll watch another one
Yes and he gets on my nerves wearing those gay gloves. The weapons he reviews are nice but not like the Thompson 1928 used in the St. Valentines Day Massacre 😅😅
Well, now the Air Force has the GAU/5A Survivor rifle and it’s way cooler, but this variant of the M-16 looks very retro and I really like it so thank you Ian
One thing worth mentioning is that the U.S. Air Force now uses the GAU-5/A as a pilot survival rifle, which is essentially the same as the Colt 608.
"GAU-5/A (also known as the Colt Model 610 XM177) and GAU-5A/A (also known as the Colt Model 649)"
GAU standing for "Gun, Automatic" in USAF nomenclature.
@@FirstDaggerTo make matters confusing, the USAF has also introduced a new GAU-5A named the Aircrew Self Defense Weapon. It is a modified M4 with the FAB folding pistol grip, Cry Havoc quick release barrel system, a BCM 12.5” carbine government profile barrel, and the Midwest Industries G3ML10 free-float hand guard. Other than the pistol grip, all the changes are pretty much on the front of the rifle.
Same basic concept as the 608, though instead of using the takedown pins you have a quick-detach barrel. The ASDW is shorter than the 608 stowed, as the current USAF ejection seats are restricted to a 16x14x3.5”, and there’s other things inside like flares and flashlights.
You should hold out for a GAU-8/A
@@scottmacgregor3444 That literally is the proper designation for the GAU-8/A Avenger.
@FirstDagger ...
..
.
That's the joke.
Not even s gun guy, myself thoroughly enjoy your work and give you as much positive wom as I can.
Not taking firepower because you don't WANT to get into a gun fight is like not wearing your seat belt because you don't want to get into a car accident. Better to have it and use it the best you can.
I'm just saying it's nice to see something simple in a world of tacticool.
I could almost hear Jonathan Ferguson just off camera, itching to get in on the fun.
He's already covered this ruclips.net/video/EVw-frCHou8/видео.htmlsi=VnVUXF8dOAZZGVHO
Has better if can find it
The unasked question is what's it doing in Leeds? No way was the RAF ever going to adopt this
@@Mute_Nostril_Agony I should have addressed this in my own video on this thing - it was, believe it or not, handed in to police in 1968. COD Donnington was the clearing house for the big Firearms Act 1968 amnesty - the Pattern Room at Enfield rescued it from that, and we acquired it along with the rest of that collection in 2005.
I actually can't recall who recorded their 608 video first but neither of us knew the other was planning to cover it around the same time :)
Perfect example of why this channel is so interesting.
You know, normally i'm not much for the Ar-15 platform, and would usually just skip over, but this thing has something about it that looks pretty damn cool and got my interest.
More of an AK guy? Brandon Herrera would approve 👍
@@aaftiyoDkcdicurakno one cares what Brandon poopypants approves of
Thanks for this. I've started carrying an AR in a tennis bag in the back my SUV. It wouldn't quite fit in the bag, so I separated the upper and lower. Perfect!
Emaciated 733
Hey man it survived a plane crash.
Well you are comparing a prototype from 1964 to a refined standard model from the mid 1980's. The XM-177E1 had the same problems as the 608 due to the 10½" barrel and improperly sized gas port.
@@celmer6 🤓
AR15 variants are like puppies, you want to take every single one of them home, because they're just so cute
I swear it just followed me home
And rename them, because their previous owner was sick in the head.
why am i not surprised that you'd make such an analogy, having such a profile, clearly telegraphing your personality.
What kinda of mama calls her kid 608? @@Halo_Legend
@@imgladnotu9527?
What an incredibly cool piece of history.
Perfect for a kid to use on the farm.
In what peaceful situation would a kid be required to have an assault rifle?
@@filipinordabest must be one of those 30-40 feral hog situations
@@filipinordabest rabbit hunting. Groundhog hunting. Plinking. Kid stuff.
You mean at school?
@@qwertzy121212nah must be an uvalde type deal
Nice close up video of this very rare gun. Thanks!
Wow another great video! You can really see All of the features it shares with the early XM-177E1's. I went with the GAU-5/A/A version of the XM-177E2 using Brownells and Luth-Ar parts with a Essential Arms aluminum CAR stock for my build. I was really surprised how awesome,light and nimble the early carbines were compared side by side with the later M-4 SOPMOD Block1 and Block2.
It's... beautiful....
Thanks for providing us with the insight of the Colt Model 608 Ian, it may have not been adopted for US military service but it's still lovely to look at not to mention that a pistol wouldn't have been useful when hostiles are engaging the pilots especially those equipped with something like the AK or its Squad Automatic Weapon variant, the RPK.
The Air Force is using a Daniel Defense Short Barrel that breaks down at the barrel nut for air crew now.
Gotta admit - I've NOT reason to get one but I might anyways..
They reused the GAU-5 nomenclature from the early SMGs. The new GAU-5, break down survival rifle is hot garbage though.
My did was a MSGT in the 102nd ARCOM in the late 1970s He flew around the Midwest frequently to other Army Reserves facilities. The pilot and copilot were recent Vietnam vets. The copilot told him he had a cut down M2 carbine he put on his lap as a “hot LZ” survival weapon. He shot out his windshield several times when the vc. Got to close. An M2 would have been a great pilot survival weapon. With 3 banana clips 90 rounds.
the spirit of The Boss is strong in this one.
Lol so few people on this channel know what you mean though 👊👊 literally was watching a playthrough of it for a bit B4 seeing your comment the universe is weird like that
I will never not like a mgs reference comment. That game series was everything to me and all its silliness.
I think another reason for the moderator on these super short carbines is to boost back pressure without needing to open the gas port quite as much
Bingo.
@@hateferlife it’s something I never really though I thought of until I saw FocusTrips video on the 12.5 inch mid length rifle he built for full time suppression
According to Colt engineer Rob Roy, the "moderators" only averaged a 1dB noise "reduction"; imperceptible to the human ear. However, that was enough for the BATF to "rule" them to be "Silencers" requiring Serial Numbers, NFA Registration separate from the firearm itself, and payment of a $200 "NFA Registration and Transfer 'Tax'."
@@johnjohnsn7633 Not quite. It actually produced 1dB MORE than the M16 when fitted to the SMG. The official report stated that the 20" M16 produced 124dB, the 10" XM with moderator made 125dB. The point wasn't to be quieter than the M16 - it was to get sound and flash with a very short barrel down to similar levels to the M16. So the moderator is in fact quite effective as a sound suppressor for its size.
Fixed length of pull? No forward assist? Overall lightened? OMG it's the WWSD carbine.
“It’s so cute” -when you show it off to her
size is just a number
"Size doesnt matter" - also when you show it off to her
The compact model it's easier to handle
I’d rather that than “for gods sake, put it away”
"less likely to fire prematurely"
The same chromed BCG we had in the Model 604 rifles in the Air Force (sans the fancy furing pin retainer)
(David Attenborough voice) And here we have the Colt 608. An AR15 that seems to have devolved back into an angry tube.
*Convergent evolution has caused this gun to resemble the sten, although they are very distantly related families*
@@Dapstartoh stop i really read it with his voice.
Return to Angy Tube.
😂😂
*chube
This thing is so tubular, Mike Oldfield wants to play it.
Thank you Ian, enjoyed that very much.
THATS the one I want!!!
Thank you Ian!!
Another excellent video Ian. Great job!
Always enjoy the information, thank you Gun Jesus!
Amen.
Amen. (I'm a muslim lol)
Thanks Ian. Was curious about this particular one.
I love its little stock, it's like a regular one but tiny
Thanks Ian
My old man flew f4s and f16s and was issued a 38. He has been into the super light weight ar builds lately so I'm sure he would be a fan of this.
On a side note, I guess guys in his squadron were given the option to buy browning high powers and carry those instead. He still kicks himself for not buying one.
of course, we enjoyed the video. What a question to ask 😊
Thank you very much for presenting this rare piece of history to us!
Some cool stuff. Amazing what modern machining can do
My morning cup of coffee. Hitting some dabs and watching A new forgotten weapons video.
...Honey oil?
...
_Are you stuck in 2017?_
The compact design and lightweight features would have made it a handy tool for pilots in survival situations.
Holy shit ! I've been waiting for this episode for so long. Thanks Ian
Really?
KLM (Royal Dutch Airlines) had an AR10 on board to fight off polar bears in case of landing in artic lands in case of emergency landings.
I have read that in a couple of AR-10 books. But have also heard it was only a rumor. Maybe Gun Jesus can shed some Devine wisdom on that story.
@@Auto-Fiver_73Pointers There are photos of an instruction booklet
Gotta give those pilots some love, even if making a ton of noise behind enemy lines is probably not a great way to survive after a crash
Fantastic weapon, thanks
This would be neat to have
Cutest Colt AR?
Ive been waiting for this one for years!
So frigging cool
What a sick truck gun, I love it
I really like this! It would be a nice hiking rifle or camping gun
I would love to see you do a follow up with the new GAU-5a ASDW.
Long have I awaited this video and the Brownells retro edition of this rifle. Halfway there.
Pilots thought the pilot's survival gatling gun was a little bit too much.
That tubular hand guard reminds me of my first model bushmaster 450. Model 91700.
They currently use a variation of this in the new air crew survival bag.
They sure changed their minds, they have the Gau 5 for pilots and aircrew now
I think it makes more sense when thinking of helicopter pilots or other close ground support aircraft where the air crew is more likely to be found in active combat and link up with the infantry they were supporting. A fighter jet or bomber deep in enemy territory would be better off with a really good suppressed single shot.
I’ve read a memoir about OH-6 “Loach” scout helicopter ops in Vietnam, and the author had very nice things to say about what he called the CAR-15. Their job was to locate the enemy by drawing their fire, so the scout helicopters were shot down A LOT, very close to the enemy, but they were always operating with attack and transport helicopters, so help was always close by. The scouts carried single pilot and a crew chief in the back seat with an M-60 that was usually secured only with a bungee cord. This gave the crew two full auto weapons to use when (not if) they were shot down, which the author said was usually sufficient to keep “Charlie” away from their position until someone could rescue them, which usually happened within minutes.
didnt i saw a similar kit for b-52 crews? came in a metal tin all neatly tucked
"4 20-round magazines." Niiice.
I would, personally, like to see all the considerations for a Vietnam Era survival rifles, both in individual videos, and a compilation video showing all of them. The compilation video can cover all, in brief, with the "winner" as the last rifle.
Oh man I’ve wanted you to do a video on the 608. So glad it’s here! Does that mean the “colt sniper” video is a possibility? 655 model?
Excellent post. Correct, the idea of a firefight with fewer than four 30x rds mags does not work. But a 22lr AR7 is an excellent alternative. You might look at another post with the AR7 and what SERE is to convey the design philosophy coupled with solid training and fitness. As always, well done.
With the GAU-5A, the PDW-type CAR-15 has come full circle.
Totally tubular bro 🤙🏻
Damn I love a chrome carrier
That's cool
Awesome video thanks!
Totally tubular, dude!
It's spiritual successor, the Daniel Defense GAU-5A, is now being fielded with the USAF for pilots and aircrews. If even disassembles in a similar way. Even fighter pilots have one and four 30 rd mags under their ejector seat just in case. It's a better security blanket than a 9mm pistol, that's for sure. That's probably why the Air Force went back to the idea, to give pilots a better sense of safety and comfort if they're downed in an increasingly hostile warzone.
A rare version of a AR? Brownells enters the chat.
More like PSA
Looks like a crude version of the GAU I carried, in the USAF, while stations at Kunson airbase on the ROK.
So would this be the original attempt of what is now the GAU-5A ASDW?
That tiny handle is quite cute 😂
I’m in love. It’s very cute lol I can picture my little girl shooting this
I kinda see why, in most shows, today they went with the FN PS90, although not my favorite choice but, small and lighter.
This is why I watch
I don't think I ever left a comment under this channel.
I grew up with books on "gun enthusiasm", in an ex-soviet household, IL.
today, when we are saturated with an endless barrage of media,
I strive to only consume those 1% pieces that would broaden my perspective.
Very cool!
Nice vid on a vary rare AR oddity. Now... Let's see if you can do an N-23. 😁
That stock could be classified as a brace
If it is a gun for military then those rules wont apply.
Just rough classifications is it a rifle,pistol,subgun,machinegun or something else.
@Kesssuli Thanks, Captain obvious.
That rifle weight as much as 10 boxes.
@@KesssuliIn the US if it were a legal full auto then that covers everything so yeah you can put basically anything on it or take off whatever you please.
@@zxggwrt I think the idea there was not to call stock as brace because civilian classifications.
In eu area rifle can have 11.9 inch barrel and still be a normal rifle.
Have seen couple so called pistols imported from states with brace as stock.
Luckily those can be throwed far as you can and switched for something more functional.
There was a Special Survival kit developed,With Backbacks,food,compass,med kits, and M-1 Carbines for Aircrew down in deep heavy jungle or heavy Anti-aircraft guns about.these kits were packaged in Airdropable Pods to give to Aircrews in Certain situations,some say from in "China"to Hike out to Helicopter suitable Rescue zones! Don't know if they were ever used,but I Saw them at a few Airbases in Thailand and one was deployed for use from carrier Aircraft. My tour S.E.Asia'71-'76 !!
Any time I see a pre-jam enhancer AR, I am happy. Stoner knew what he was doing when he designed that rifle.
forward assist is handy and I have yet to see it make a jam worse when used as intended.
@@ethanarias2911 Then you haven't been paying much attention.
@@Riley_Mundt i paid enough attention to kyle rittenhouse to know that it can save my ass exactly how the army thought it might.
@@ethanarias2911 Evidently you never paid enough attention to how the bolt carrier group is designed, else you'd know that the recess visible through the ejection port is there so you can use your thumb to gently push the bcg forward in the event of a failure to seat. Otherwise, if the thumb recess is insufficient, you should pull the charging handle to eject the faulty round rather than hammer onto a button which forces the faulty round into battery, causing a malfunction.
The jam enhancer did not save Rittenhouse's life, no matter how much people like to claim otherwise.
@@Riley_Mundt he is literally on video slapping the forward assist to close the bolt before taking a shot that likely saved his life, the thumb recess, while useful, is not as fast to use and more likely to injure the operator when used under duress. Thats why men with common sense came up with a handy little button you can slap in a hurry. The forward assist is there because you *might* need it, and you may need it quickly, much like the rifle it is attached to. Getting rid of a potential quick solution to a rifle malfunction is not worth the ounce or two it will save.
I think I read the 10.3 inch barrel requirement came from guys who board ships and who said its the minimum length to be able to go through a doorway on a ship
Like to see the inner design of those moderators
@ForgottenWeapons >>> Great video...👍
What Ian says at the end about arming pilots with fighting guns is exactly what I thought when the clip started. Training pilots -- and especially fighter or bomber pilots -- is so expensive nowadays in terms of both time and money that risking them getting killed in a gunfight is idiotic. Even if they got caught, there would be a good chance of getting them back through a POW swap or -- as in e.g. Vietnam or Iraq -- getting them back after the conflict was over. The old M6 Aircrew Survival Weapon with an o/u .22 Hornet and .410-gauge shotgun barrel was more in line with a survival weapon usable for hunting if downed in the wilderness; the only weakness was the small number of shells (9 Hornets and 4 .410's).
08:06 I read in Flypast magazine a F-105 Thunderchief pilot got shot down in North Vietnam and died in a small arms firefight with NVA troops (Operation Rolling Thunder)
Ian - could you do a video on the current GAU-5 USAF ejection seat survival rifle?
That would be the GAU-5A/A, as the GAU-5/A is the old XM177.
yes, I was thinking, some kind of 45 with a real silencer would be more usable. Both for hunting and for breaking away from a pursuit if it comes to that
Well... If you got into a gunfight... A little thing like that with 80 rounds sounds real good to me.
P.S. And really cool too.
My grandfather flew A6s from Vietnam up until Desert Storm and he told me some of the weapons pilots would carry back then, everything from Thompson sub machine guns, M1 Garands and sawed off shotguns.
Nice of youtube to send me one of these videos again ... after 2 month.
( yes i checked if i was still subscribed)
I'd think something like a sten would fit in a whole lot smaller package.
Downed pilots should definitely not look to get into gunfights, but I'm sure they would appreciate the extra firepower when they're forced into one. Hopefully, they will get a CSAR team to help them, but at some point, they may need to fight their way to an LZ.
So when will someone start making a kit to make an AR into a replica of the 608? It looks pretty cool.
I understand the point about a pilot trying to avoid gunfights. But if they got discovered or cornered they might appreciate being able to eliminate as many hostiles as possible before they can't anymore. Seems like these days an MP7 or something like that would be a great pilot's weapon. Small, light, light ammo, and pretty effective at self defense range.
Such a cool piece
Nice gun