Massive WEDI Shower FAILURE (Done by Certified Installer) -- Warranty Claim DENIED
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- I was contacted by a homeowner to come out and look at his WEDI shower, that was built in 2007 by a certified WEDI installer. The company that performed the work went out of business since then. They were a medium size tile installation company that did residential new construction (track homes) and commercial work.
So the homeowner contacted a tile contractor who used to work for that company before it went out of business. Through the contractor, WEDI was contacted. They sent out a technician who gathered information, they sent it back to WEDI, and the warranty claim was denied.
See below for an explanation of the denied claim:
"....The shower was subject to movement, explaining perimeter and generally grout cracks, also at the bench. Such structural movement particularly destroys weak seals such as those present at the bench. This leads to water exposure of the bench construction, and the floor. Such exposure causes not only rot, but increases movement to an extreme level, amplifying the original issues."
Please let me know if anyone else has seen or heard of failures such as this. The more information that is out there, the better we can help our fellow tile installers decide for themselves what is the best method to use.
Leave your comments in the section below. Please try to be helpful, even if you do not agree with me. I am ok leaving negative comments up as long as they are helpful in any way.
Before you comment that the wrong sealant was used, please understand that Wedi was using Sikaflex polyurethane as the approved sealant at the time of this install. I have proof from archived websites that explain it in detail in this video: ruclips.net/video/_skYsjFBnPM/видео.html. The sealant they now use use is a silane based sealant similar to kerdi-fix, which performs much better in wet applications. Important to note that Sikaflex polyurethane has a manufacturer one year warranty.
The caulking has a 1 year warranty but the shower has 15? 🤷♂️
My understanding is any polyurethane sealant is used for expansion joints? In EXTERNAL building applications amd definitely not in internal wet areas. That’s the case in Australia where I am, in showers we use silicone not polyurethane but silicone is only used to seal junction joints in tile applications where the floor meets the wall. You absolutely need a one piece system of waterproofing from floor to wall transition with no overlapping of two separate materials but this doesn’t even have that! Like Isaac says the complete waterproofing of floor to wall joint is reliant on caulking! This is madness! This is all wedi’s fault 100% the install looks beautiful to me he just followed wedi’s instructions
2021 Catalog: "Wedi Joint Sealant is Polyisocyanates and PVC free, and a zero VOC sealant." I'm with you...nothing magic in a caulking tube except 3M 5200.
Thanks for the vid TileCoach.
I live in New Zealand and repairing leaking tile showers make up 50% of my work.I have used ardex wpm 001 for 25 years always over sand and cement screeds. Never had one leak.... famous last words.Companies have tried to reinvent the wheel for faster installs etc.Worst one is the Atlantis system where you tile over a pvc tray with mapei epoxy.Wont tile them as a couple I did years ago .The tiles delaminated...as for the crappy waterproofing stick on butynol for the walls I waterproofed over the top to be sure and meshed the bottom join
I am a tile contractor in Florida. I had a failure with Wedi and they denied my claim. This was on my own house. The gray cement like material delaminated off the blue closed cell foam on my shower pan causing the pan to become spongy. Wedi is a terrible company and will never back there product they will always blame it on the installer or some other factor. I am so glad to have seen this video. Thanks
Yep, it could be a "lifetime" warranty and still wouldn't matter cause the MO is deny all claims. The only repercussion the homeowner would has is to sue the mega corporation.
Pedro Escarfullery *you’re
Pedro Escarfullery or ‘your *lion’ 🤷🏻♂️
@Pedro Escarfullery No it's true.
1surfercross, I've never used WEDI, but can vouch for them that sadly the vast majority of the times any system fail is due to the installer, and not the product. I have researched WEDI and would feel confident giving a lifetime warranty on the installation and product, but should disclose that I have been renovating multi-million dollar homes for 30 years. Also- no way would I trust 99% of the contractors that are hired from craigslist, or Angie's List the classifieds etc. to complete a walk-in shower install start to finish. I know better than to do something like that :)
I was just doing my research to perform my own shower re-tile and came across your video. Thank goodness I did. After seeing a professional job go horribly wrong, even after following all of the installation procedures set by the manufacturer, I have chosen to go with a different product. Thank you for your videos and willingness to educate us. God bless.
Yes sir Isaac, I have been in the business for over 37 years and I still install the old school way. Rubber membrane and real mud. I have seen all the schutler and wedi systems at the trade shows and never bought into it. All these guys been in business for 10 years haven't had any issues with these products. All of a sudden 11 years later this guys floor is completely rotten and could have been termite infested and then some. Thanks for the video brother and keep educating the world. Al from Maryland
Termites my ass. That is dry rot from years and years of water intrusion.
I install wedi and hydroblock. It's a good system if you know how to install it correctly.
I think Wedi is great for the walls and benches, but after watching this, I might not use it for a shower pan.
The extreme amount and severity of the wood rot means the water leak did not just did not start recently, more likely it's been leaking for several years. Probably started when the shower was still quite new.
The house rotted around the shower
In the Uk most of the wet room systems we use require you to build a solid frame under the floor as minimum so that all of the outer edges of the “tray” are supported. There appears to be no addition framing installed in this video to give additional support for the wedi shower tray
Amazing Isaac Ostrum, you are truly a professional in every aspect. You and your personal character truly reflects on your desire to do great work, your dead ass honest! This is coming from a person, with 35 years in the field of construction. Mad respect !
I've never installed Wedi or any foam shower and thanks to this video, I never will. Thanks for sharing!
I know tile shower bases can be great but that depends more heavily on the installer. I went with cast iron for the shower base because it’s hard to mess that up 😅
I am glad I saw this. My wife and we’re thinking of installing a WEDI system. Great video, thanks.
I've been tiling for 30 years and Appreciate your education of all things tile you show. Including your failures . There is many videos showing incorrect installation . And your education helps people understand the proper way . Also various methods done incorrectly . Keep up the good work !!
1:51 you know you wanted to laugh
Kory Sarnelli 😂😂😂😂😂 I was looking for a comment about this
Haha I knew I'd find this comment
Scrolled to comments immediately after this😂
@@docwoodmd1870 lol
Finally someone said something! Everyone else are all boring and professional-soundin
Another great video. This is my issue with not only wedi but some liquids as shower pans as well. You really need a monolithic transition floor to wall. Not just a sealant or topical membrane. Shifting and settling are a real things in all parts of the country.
Now this might just be my perspective - but my first thought is that the structure probably isn't up to snuff for a tiled shower. The joist bay that you are sitting in is MASSIVE and although the i-joists are rated for those spaces at spans - under bathrooms, I always preferred to see them cut the spacing down one level in order to give the floor more stiffness (24" to 19.2", 19.2" to 16", 16" to 12"...). It is one thing to deal with bouncy floors under tile in a kitchen - but in a bathroom it will cost tens of thousand of dollars out of pocket for something that a builder looking to cheap out on a few i-joists could have solved when the house was in framing.
Granted, the tile guy should have said nope as well. Might not like the decision that WEDI came to, but just seeing that and having been in a few hundred houses over the years with similar structures...I wouldn't trust much other then a fiberglass drop in on them.
hI iSSAC
Thanks this video. I have a great deal of experience with this product and have made a lot of videos showing how to install this board. I can state categorically that his is not a product failure. The rebate (rabbit) cut is not required and neither is the caulking. The joint should be sealed with a neoprene flexible tape that will give you a perfect water seal. This will cope with movement and that is why it is specified. The contractor is out of business so, the homeowner needs to go back to the terms of the warranty. It will not fail if it is done properly so the fault lies with the installer. I agree that better training is required but I reckon the installer was trying to save $40,00 on the taoe.
Absolutely right Roger. I did my bathroom using wefi 14 years ago and it's as good as the day I installed it. I posted a comment here months ago to which someone's just replied and noticed your comment.
Skill Builder I agree that the installer totally screwed up but I am a WEDI certified installer and just went to the secondary certification in Chicago last year. You are I correct. They do want the rabbet cut now but they want you to block in behind (Between the studs) and put a massive bead in that channel. That way when you push it down it should squeeze out a good bit and then you run the Wedi corner knife on that seam and let it dry. Once it’s dry you go back in with the sealant and run a new bead and again use the knife to get it sitting in the crease well. It’s what they call their double barrier system.
The contractor was "certified" by the manufacturer, and the manufacturer refuses to back the warranty that mandates installation by the "certified" installer. Basically, the warranty and certification are absolutely worthless.
@@kassklothes so everyone that’s certified does it the way they were taught? Come on now. Let’s me logical. It was a bad contractor. It’s quite obvious
@@kassklothes The problem is even though the installer is certified he obviously missed a few steps. Also I’ve never heard of not using the rabbits.
IVE BEEN WATCHING YOUR VIDEOS FOR AWHILE NOW. IM A HANDYMAN FOR 34 YEARS AND I WATCH AND LISTEN TO YOU. IM NOT A NO IT ALL AND YOU ARE RIGHT! IT DOES NOT HURT TO BE EXTRA CAREFUL AND THOROUGH LIKE YOU ARE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR POST AND I WILL SUBSCRIBE NOW. MIKE
Thank you for this video. As you took things apart I knew exactly where the water went. I agree why would you ever have so little protection from water getting thru. Once again so valuable to see these things for me. I love to learn thanks Isaac
Issac -- You have such a great smile but we rarely see it. You are so professional.
Another great video, sir. Let the truth reveal itself, we are all learning.
I wish isaac would use his energy to speak out other truths. Like flat earth. Is the earth flat or round? It's always appeared flat to me.
I've been doing this kind of work for 30 years that whole system looks Shawty to me
Thank you for making this video. I've installed a few of these but have switched back to mortar pans with bonding flange drains and sheet membranes after noticing the foam pans would dent easily when unprotected. I would use the cardboard from the pan box and a piece of 2 inch rigid foamboard to work off of only exposing the pan prior to floor tiling. Was curious about joist spacing and subfloor thickness of this shower and whether the joist depth and connections are rated for seismic activty as you said. Seems like common sense to beef up load carrying capacities of floor system and make current connections between framing members before putting 1/2 ton of mortar and tile on top of them. Excess movement will case failure in most sytems over time. The Wedi sealant Ive been supplied with is a grey modified polyurethane and I learned after bedding joints to spread a 1/2 inch bead with a plastic wing tool from 1 1/2 to 2 inches on both sides of inside corners 2 times. These two steps are supposed to strengthen the joint but apparently this is not the case. Your work here has proven to be very sobering indeed. Much appreciated.
Wouldn't the easy solution be, to use wedi subliner dry tape on the permiter of the base and corners?
Man you are the Medical Examiner of failed showers. Love your work and transparency. Keep it up mate!!
I use and love the wedi boards. But for pans I either sand pack my own or use the Schluter foam pan with a double layer of the Kerdi. Kerdi Band then wraps up onto the Wedi wall, then Redguard on the seams.
Redguard fails a lot as well. I only use it as a crack surpressant. I have been using chloralloy and mudpacking the shower floor for thirty years with no failures. Recently I have had customers who insist on the Schluter system and I have reservations about using styrofoam on the floor. I've done a few that way, but after seeing this debacle I'm only doing it old school.
@@jonm9538 I would love to see a video of how you do a proper shower floor. What is chloralloy? I have to redo a shower. Thanks.
Excellent Info. I love how you give. your live commentary as you go.
110% agree with your assessment on where and how the failure occurred. Never never never rely on sealant of any kind as waterproofing.
GREAT job Isaac!
Eric, please don't encourage the misinformed. "Never rely on a sealant" is like saying never rely on a roof to keep you dry or never rely on a fire to keep you warm. You do realize there are specialty products on the market that are perfectly capable of making water and airtight gaskets for many decades? After 30 years of home renovations, my best advice: There's a whole lot of different stuff you can do- you just have to know what you are doing ;)
Rick the Swift You are right about needing to know what you are doing and with over 25 years of tile and stone installation experience myself. Waterproofing systems are designed to eliminate water penetration to the substrate (just like on a roof). If any part fails, it fails, and the sealants is ALWAYS the weakest part.
@@ericrogers9253 I would agree that sealants are often the weakest link in the chain. But. This is also the case with head gaskets and valve gaskets in modern and vintage automobiles- many of which still hold up perfectly after many years of thoughtful maintenance. It also helps in such cases that the system was usually designed by an experienced engineer, being guided by decades of data, and monitored by strict regulations, rather than someone who may or may not have a high school diploma or GED, and who may have just watched a DIY video at Home Depot, or RUclips before placing a bid on a project. Not that the lack of certification disqualifies someone from being informed- just saying, homeowners (HO's) often will hire the most affordable contractors and the one who lives closest to the project (IOW a neighbor) which was likely the case here.
@@Rick-the-Swift it's funny (to me) you mentioned head gasket. Just had my head gaskets replaced on my truck, not a cheap fix (since the warrantee guy denied the claim). I sure wish they made things to last like they use too.
I think we should stick to what works; the basic traditional mud work .then water proof. Like hydro ban.etc. Isaac I appreciate what you do . You care and have a passion for tile work. When you have a change look up Michael Byrne videos yes they are dated, but he’s work will last. Now he is a consultant for tile industry. I go buy his teaching. But keep up great work👍
I agree
Mud and a liner done right and the house will fall down around that shower
I just removed a shower from an old house, the vinyl liner had a date of 1963 printed on it. This was the homes' original tiled shower and it was still going strong. Floated walls and floor, would have lasted decades longer.
BUT....I should say that it is rare to find the original shower in a home in my City these days. People around here remod their baths like they change clothing styles. It is pointless in my market to over build....especially when the market and/or homeowner pays a painfully low price to get it done.
It's never a bad idea in any market to over build. Quality is number 1 period
Very nice video! Educational, honest and informative. Your way to humble dude! You are the definition of professional. 👍👍
Just because someone has a license, that doesn't mean shit.
Amen, and even if it was inspected, that doesn't mean squat either (I'm only 7 min into the video, can't wait to see the actual fail). So many inspectors are useless. I did a major addition to my house. We waited for 2 weeks for the inspector to come out to check our footings. The day he comes out, it's been raining for 3 days straight. It's still raining. So he fails us for "water in the footings". No $hit sherlock.
@@cgilleybsw What state are you in?
1974jrod Totally true. It only means over priced. I use a lot of handymen one thing is they know is they do not know everything. So they research and try hard to do good work. Contractors are just always rushing through.
Very true. I had another "certified" electrical contractor call me out on two different jobs he was unable to do. First was a loose neutral that took me all of an hour to diagnose, after tracing every wire in the control panel to make a schematic of the system to work from. The second was a job where he hooked up a 3 phase generator 120/240v (has a high leg - one phase is 208 volts to ground). He didn't use a volt meter to verify where to terminate the high leg, and fried every 120v device on the service. His remark to me, was "didn't smell like a high leg". I am also a licensed wastewater operator, and could regale you for hours with horror stories of stuff I've seen other licensed operators do. In Florida, our correctional institutions have inmates learning to operate, which is a good thing, in that we are giving them a trade to hopefully stay out of prison. The problem is that we have one government employee "teaching" or "supervising" them. Most of these guys are generally bottom dwellers for license holders. My take is that we, as a society, rely on the government to "certify" someone's ability. The same institution that screws up almost everything they touch. Honestly look at the majority of public servants and see that most of them only work there because they lack the ability to maintain employment in the private sector (obviously there are exceptions to every rule so don't get your panties in a wad if you are a public servant who isn't a bottom dweller). If you truly want to get someone who knows what they are doing you need to: 1. Educate yourself on the task you are asking them to perform 2. Ask them lots of questions and if they can't answer them from your research, back away. 3. I prefer old school methods primarily because the new stuff has not been tried and tested as is demonstrated in this video. 4. Ask for references and actually follow up on them. If they are reputable, they will have no issues with you talking to their other clients. The onus on the outcome of the job is squarely on the shoulders of the person who hires them.
@@mikewhite9818 On behalf of the handyman, (not all, but many) do really good work, and often the right way, they just don't have a license, but could if they pursued their skills. I say this because I have had the contractor fail (like you mentioned- "rushing through") and the handyman come fix it and clean it up.
I really appreciate your videos, very easy and entertaining to watch; and yes I’m also a wedi guy who is NOT offended. I’m more interested in learning to expand my craft in this industry. You never stop learning.
You must have watched the whole video! Thank you. Most guys get mad, skip through it, and blame the original installer when they don't even know what happened. Most of the complaints I get are "wrong sealant was used". totally false. At the time, wedi was using Sikaflex which is a polyurethane sealant that is totally different than the sealant (silane based) that they use today. I explain in detail in the following video:ruclips.net/video/_skYsjFBnPM/видео.html
What you showed in this video, no homeowner should ever go through.
My observations even though it’s hard to tell from the video, few things did caught my eye.
This type of shape of shower would’ve been much easier to do traditional mudpan, than WEDI and most likely cheaper also.
WEDI pans come in squares and rectangles, meaning the installer had to cut this pan to fit perfectly into that opening which can be tricky and if he was off at any of those angles that could’ve created a problem.
If you ever worked with WEDI sealer you’d know it doesn’t just “delaminate” that stuff you can rip off even if you wanted to.
Another problem, I didn’t see any fiberglass tape at all the corners connecting floor and wall and sides. when you connect wall board to floor pan you squeeze extra sealant out and add more if needed than use a square spread tool to spread sealant couple inches on both side and run a fiberglass tape into corners. That secures both sides and keeps them together even if there’s a large settlement.
Isaac run a test with it even for your self, WEDI sealant is crazy strong, I just can’t believe that it just delaminated, there must be more to that story. Either bottom pan wasn’t properly installed to subfloor and there was a “play” which in time tore them apart, or those panels weren’t installed correctly.
It would’ve been nice to see how bench was assembled, but it just looks wrong. I would’ve made square shower corner and installed wedi type corner shower in already installed WEDI shower. That would be the correct way to do that. Also we didn’t see drain assembly which can leak if not properly installed and another very important is curb, we didn’t see.
Thank you for your videos, they help me to pay more attention at certain things at work on daily bases.
And don’t feel bad pointing out things that are clearly failed, we all who do this for living need to see them.
Sorry for the long ramble.
It delaminated after 10 years of temperature and moisture cycle.
Doesn't mean that it is not super strong in the first couple years.
Agree.. tape should have been added.
Any system even a hot mop is not fool proof. They all have a lifetime.
I would say there was too few joist underneath shower and subfloor was flexing too much which cause delamination of Wedi on floor.
Dunno about codes in US but here maximum O.C for floor joist under shower is 16 o.c with 3/4 thick plywood.
@@turboflush That was leaking after half that, Damage to wood to that extent does not happen overnight
@@mr.wizeguy8995 It depends on local codes. Most allow any joist spacing combo to achieve L/360, but a lot of older buildings here are 24" OC with 2x8 joists, including my own house. There's also weird i-joist systems that have their own spacing requirements.
Also some older buildings have steel or cast iron bathtubs set directly to the joists.
@@philaudiostrike8746
Never said it did happen overnight.
Im investigating one right now. I have verified its not the plumbing. I am advising they get a Tile Contractor to investigate the Wedi install.
It seems to me that there is not enough attention in these Wedi systems to make sure the water that gets below the tile layer is able to flow to the drain.
Love your videos and commend you for your detailed insight on proper and quality workmanship.
One thing Id like to point out. The floor structure. Looks like 24" OC TGI joists and only one joists lands in the layout of the shower pan without any supporting joists at the perimeters. With a single layer of 3/4" t&g decking (maybe it's 1-1/8"?) that would certainly cause a lot of movement. But, if youve been to a WEDI seminar, this is exactly what they preach it is designed to do, move. Not that I agree.
We normally open our floors up for drain placement anyway and at that time add additional cross blocking around the drain and perimeters, sometimes adding new joists where needed.
Also, the major area of damage seems to be near the bench. How was the bench wall board connection to the pan and pan designed around that bench? Curious
I'm no advocate and don't want to preach a product that may have flaws, which almost every product does. But we are certified and have installed these system. On the installs we have done, we have took extra steps and used waterproof membrane adhered with thinset to the floor and 6 inches up the walls before installation. Not something Wedi requires, just an extra step. Like back caulking a trim board, window or similar when dealing with water penetration and envelope. Also, additional floor blocking, pan backed blocking where the wall boards meet the pan etc..
I can't say definitively without seeing it myself whether there was some sort of installation error or product failure but don't wish this on any homeowner or contractor. If this is a product failure at the joints from prolonged movement with the proper installed sealant, Id sure like to know about it. That is what every argument is against these products.
16 OC. The middle one rotted out.
Issac thank you for your honest opinion about WEDI, I think the reason for this problem is due to insufficient quantity of sealant used in the dado recessed connection of wall to pan and also not adequate seam of 1/8 inch thick x two inch wide along the perimeter of the pan and wall board. I also think WEDI may be aware of some installment difficulties since they make a One-Step pan system with a lip which I prefer but it is in limited sizes which works for new construction but seems never to be the right size for remodeling. After reading your post, I wil consider using prefab pans which have a lip.
I became a Wedi certified installer in 2007 have put a few systems in at first then I started to see some flaws in the system like no attachment to the wall and floor except for basically caulk . The adhesive I have seen in both white and grey , I always assumed they changed to a different adhesive or different manufacturer. When we see changes like that I get nervous. I don't use this system anymore or ones like it because of the same reasons Isaac mentioned . It's important to not that as our industry moves forward we will see changes it's up to us to determine if we wish to change with it. A warranty is only good if the company or the manufacturer is still around , and it has been my experience that the manufacturer more than likely will deny the claim so it almost always lands on the company or installer the put it in.
You can't be certified installer because 2 min google search tells that panels will attached to walls with sealant and screws with washers and to floor panels are attached with thinset to subfloor. So dunno who taught you to install it.
The attachment I'm referring to is between the floor and the walls where the rabbit is . As far as my certification I surely remember a 3 day class .
@@mikewisor4817 I just installed my Wedi system. The rabbit joint has nothing to do with attatching the pan to the floor nor the panels to the walls. They are there strictly for the joint between the pan and the wall panels. Not sure what kind of FUD you are trying to spread here?
Your videos are extremely helpful I do some tile work among other things in the Northeast very grateful for your time and efforts with all of this
The former owners of our house had a Wedi shower installed around 12-15 years ago which we just had fail. We have no idea who the installer was - and it's probably a good thing because this failure was due to extreme negligence on the installer's part. The wall was cut too short and tried to use wedi urethane to make up the difference. We had an inch and a half thick rope of wedi urethane around the base of the shower. He also 'adapted' the plumbing on the drain and self-modified wedi parts by slicing off everything and using a rope of caulking the size of my thumb to attach the wedi drain to the P trap....with some other weirdness mixed in for good measure.
Thanks I was seriously considering using Wedi system in my bathroom remodel this coming summer. I definitely agree with what your saying, on the butt joint and not holding. Thanks again!
Hi Isaac... I used Wedi sealant recently and also about 10 years ago. I can tell you for sure it's not white. It's a medium dark gray. That's not Wedi sealant and that channel should be packed with sealant. Due to a mistake on the first job years ago, I had to pull a piece of the board away where two boards are sealed together. Holy shit, that stuff sticks to the foam like crazy. It rips the foam apart. I feel confident in saying that is not Wedi's sealant and it looks more like they used some caulk from Lowes.
I agree
I concur, that's not WEDI sealant. Plus its an improper install, you are supposed to hit each seam/joint with another thick bead of caulk and trowel it out.Probably ran out and got impatient and used whatever. WEDI sealant has incredible tenacity in sticking to the board.
I also agree that the sealant used in my Wedi shower 10 years ago was not white it was a grey color as described above. In addition to joining all joints with Wedi sealant I also know the installer applied Wedi sealant to the surface of all joints and troweled them flat.
I Agree also.
Yeah. This is the cause. Wasn't wedi sealant, plus they only did the inside bead. It pulled away from the foam side but stuck to the cement side. The install might have worked if they applied the second bead to the face and trowled it out to 3/4 inch up the wall and horizontally across pan. That caulk stuck plenty good to the cement.
Surprised the wedi rep didn't catch that.
I get it. That joint sealant can be $20 a tube when some exterior osi is $8. Its good enough to get you passed the inspection.
I’m having anxiety after watching this video. I just finished installing the Wedi pan, walls and curb and sealing all the screws/washers, joints and corners. Ceiling tiles are up. Planning to start tiling the walls in a few days. Now I’m thinking about putting another layer of sealant at the joints.
(not a professional, just trying to use commonsense) i mean, a system relying on sealant, even great sealant, to keep water out of the the most vulnerable joint is a bit strange. maybe put some ardex or aqua defense with the mesh on the pan joint as a "belt and suspenders" approach. or even kerdi band? not sure it is compatible. sidenote: i always thought the kbrs custom pans were the best solution if you didn't want (didn't have the experience) to do a mud pan ever since i found out about them.
Cement board over everything.
Or rip it out and start over. Use cement board, just like you should have to begin with. Why keep going with the wedi???
Unless you have a great, great tiler you will wish you had never installed wedi!!!
And you won't know how good the tiler is until there is a problem. And then it is too late, isn't it???
Do it right the first time. Use cement board and a copper or lead pan. And a heavy rubber liner for added insurance.
You will sleep better if you do it the right way. The fool proof way!
And take pics so when you go to sell the house you can get a bit more for it. Because you cared to do jobs properly!
When you put in the second sealant in the corners etc, use your finger (or a radiused scraper, trowel etc) to leave a radiused 'fillet', instead of a 'tight' sharp internal finish. Then when laying the tiles, be sure not to put a sharp tile edge hard up to the sealant corners, IE leave a little gap, or chamfer the underside of the tile. To go one step further, run a bead of sealant around the perimeter of the floor tiles before starting the walls. And please, don't do the walls first. Any extra time ($) spent now is cheaper than a re-build.
Looks to me like the floor was not super stiff and the sealant flashed before they put the walls on the pan, thus not sticking.
Ahh valid points
I have been watching all manufacturers videos on shower assemblies with foam boards, and still can’t persuade my mechanical mind that TV packaging grade polystyrene foam with some fleece and sealed by mortar or adhesive can build robust shower stale situated at 2nd or 3rd floor of stick frame house we have in America and will last decades. It may be enough at grade level where you either have concrete slab or your load bearing walls built with 2x6 or 2x8, as you climb higher, walls get thinner and more prone for flex and drift due to temperatures. The only exception may be if you built your custom house and exceeded construction standards. Either way, Those shower systems answer ANSI requirements that allow mechanical give up to 1/16”. This implies that your shower should be rather large to spread contraction/expansion load over more surface to compensate for seasonal dimensional give. In this video shower area rather small 3x4ft, back wall was double layered (not sure why, perhaps contractor thought drywall will server as temperature barrier, or Wedi presolpe was undersized, either way, all it mean that longer screws has to be used, so more roam room for Wedi wall board) Sheetrock has different temperature drift cycle, Wedi board different, and mortar with tile different. Also, bench was installed, which likely added on number of seams, which are temperature breaking points, getting all this combined you can imagine amount friction happening behind tiled surface, all this was just time bomb in my view.
“I use a lot of common sense” lol Great quote Isaac
@Pedro Escarfullery Because most guys won't admit that they got a leak. I mean someones making all the leaks right? But no ones done one....you do the math.
@Pedro Escarfullery xD
Pedro Escarfullery shit happens lol nobodys perfect
Common sense would be not doing this type of shower in the wooden "house"
I appreciate the details you guys get into and it only helps all of us in our industry. Good work gentleman thumbs up 👍
I'm still amazed that anyone thinks that putting drywall in a shower, no matter what it's covered with, is a good idea
Its done quite often depending on the methods. Some products can work with either or. I wouldn’t use anything but cement board or schluters substrate
That's how he does it with the shluter i have never used the schluter but i use hardibacker. durock,wonderboard is garbage
CGTOW I’m a contractor and if anyone who tiles over drywall in the shower room, will be terminate immediately. Use waterproof go board or cement backer and waterproof Red guard, two coats
Still do it the old way with waterproof board, pvc pan liner , wire and cement on the curb. No leak in 25 years. Nowadays also use red guard for double protection and it looks good. 😏
Thats why that green board had zero damage lol if its waterproofed its same thing
Even before these videos, I never considered any of these gimmicky waterproofing products. Concrete board (only whole pieces with tight joints) and silicone all joints including corners). Concrete floor with PVC liner or premade acrylic floor pan only. My two cents as a 30 year carpenter that dives into the occasional washroom reno/upgrade. Love my tiling hobby and matching furniture.
Excellent failure analysis! As with every failure completed by a factory trained technician, the manufacturer will deny, deny, deny.
Tell your installer to over build. He will say that you don't need to. tell him that you always buy extra insurance.This is noce Roman stone tile.I would cry in my car if I had to deal with this in my home.stay strong man.
I'll stick with my Oatey pvc 40 mil liner in the pan, overlapped by 6 mil plastic on the studs. I sleep good at night.
Right! :)...I love that system...Tile guy for over 30 years...Do you preslope?
@@godbluffvdgg Yes I always preslope. Do you put cheese wiz on your cheese steaks? I always preferred marinara.
@@Hodmokrin :)...I ask because that SalTile guy, that has a channel on here says he doesn't do it and you don't need it...I preslope too AND I aqua seal the pre and the wet bed...That at least gives me the tail light warrantee...:)...And cheese steaks get Provolone...Sharp if they got.. it...but if you've had a few beers; wiz is the most awesome thing in the world...:
@Carleton Rutherford you're right God forbid they try to do as mud pan. That's why we make the big bucks 😉
How can you sleep at night knowingly installing septic tanks under your client's feet.
This video makes me feel better about my apartment bathroom I ripped apart. The more I rip apart the more stuff I need to fix though.....
Installation instructions state to put a 1/2" bead of sealant in the rabbit joint, insert the 1/2" wedi board into rabbit. Then you are required to use a trowel to strike that joint. After the shower is completed they are then required to come back and add a 1/2" bead of sealant to all seams. Then strike that. It appears to me that the 2nd bead of sealant was never applied otherwise we would of seen that sealant going in both directions towards the drain, and also towards the rabbit channel in the walls.
Wedi sealant certification is to tolerate gives up to 1/16”. Likely, it was structural issue, like subfloor had some give, or wall had flex, which eventually resulted in adhesive delamination. Also, suspicious part, that double layer wall, my guess they did that either to catchup on fixed size of preslope base as it might be undersized.
Riiiight, couldn't be a faulty system lol
Great video, unfortunately we are having a similar issue. A 1/4” of their sealant was utilized. My report says in 2012 when ours was installed that 3/4” should have been used and now 1”. I have been going back and forth with them. They continue to deny the claim, we are of course right at the 10 year warranty period that they had in 2012. Their rep was onsite during install as the company we dealt with did not have experience with a steam shower. Wedi is denying our claim saying they do not have proof that their representative was onsite. It’s been a very unfortunate costly situation! The wedi representative in FL has been very friendly and responsive. It’s just very unfortunate that his manager and the insurance company continue to deny the claim when this is clearly an installation error. They are offering to give me wedi board then the rest will be on us which is very expensive. Our floor is even damaged. At this point why would I want to go back with the same system that failed us?!? Does anyone have a success story with an approved claim with Wedi?
I agree with you sir shower kids are not easy to install. And less it’s a drop in and go pre-pitched. But those also go up into the half to 2 inches then you can caulk screw etc. but from something to nothing such as mud rubber membrane and the foam board which we don’t use that takes an experienced and skilled professional thank you for your work
This looks like a job for Flex Tape!
Nice lol
Too bad Billy Mays is dead. He could have fixed this.
nothing a bit of super glue and some caulk can't fix...
Lmao!
Flex seal
I refitted my bathroom out in 2006 using wedi all round. On the walls and floor with a fundo shower. The wall to floor joints should be taped with their neoorene tape and not sealant because the sealant will fail with slight movement. The tape will accept a much higher amount of movement. I've not had a single problem in all those years and when I refurbished my kitchen, I replaced the ceiling which is below the shower and the joists were bone dry. This job looks like it wasn't done properly. Wedi is a good product but like anything it will only work if it's done properly. Also, I didn't notch out my shower tray. I don't know about the US but here in the UK it's not advertised as being an easy product to install.
I feel really bad for the homeowner. So much damage.
Shower cabin wasnt good enough for him
For anybody that dogs you about it, let them. They never have a problem til they have a problem. It’s not if, it’s when.
Glad to see you standing firm. I’ve done a few rebuilds for folks that had problems. They might leak for years before it’s noticed so it’s best to use the tried and true method even if it cost more. Pay me now or pay me later.
Hopefully you’ll get the rebuild job and wedi has to write a check.
I just have to say I have never used Wedi for my showers but I use Laticretes shower system. That type of sealant actually "welds" itself to the foam. If its similar to laticretes sealant theres no way you could pull two pieces of sealed foam apart at the seam, you would rip the foamboard before that happened. My theory is the wrong sealant was used, Wedi sealant back then was not sufficient in adhering the foam together properly or the contractor did not perform that step correctly (dust in the joint preventing adhesion possibly). Then again maybe this is the long term effect of these foam systems coming to light. Who knows? Time will tell.
Maybe time is already telling.
Improper cleaning out of excess thin set in the rabbit is what it looked like to me. The sealant certainly stuck well enough to the wall board, just not in the rabbit.
Wedi sealant is gray not white.
I’m a UK bathroom installer. I won’t do tiled shower pans on timber floors. I’ve done quite a few over the years but I’ve had 2 that have failed, both on timber floors. All the ones I’ve done on concrete/solid floors are fine.
The problem with these systems is it only takes 1 cracked grout joint from a bit of movement and the water gets in.
If the waterproofing is sound then water sits under the tiles and saturates the entire mortar bed eventually leading to mould growing out of the grout joints.
If the waterproofing isn’t sound then the water has somewhere to go and just causes major wood rot.
I don’t know why you guys in the US are so dead set on tiled pans when you can get solid stone effect shower trays that feel and look amazing. Best thing of all is they can’t fail.
I'm just a DIY dummy and I would never use a foam product to support something like tile in a bathroom. That does not compute in my head!
I've seen fully loaded concrete trucks drive over 1" thick foam boards without damaging the foam on large concrete pours hundreds of times. The concrete is poured over the foam.
Foam works great but it needs to be supported 100% underneath by a substrate that does not move. In concrete work the substrate is compacted fill.
It looks like the foam in these showers is not well supported. With people bouncing around the shower like its a trampoline and seismic tremors in CA, that foam is getting flexed, twisted, and pulled in every direction. I'm surprised this shower last as long as it did.
Freakin eh man
I opted for the KBRS shower pan system. It’s rigid foam that comes already coated and waterproofing membrane, uses polyurethane sealant in the joints then gauging fabric over the joints followed by more water proofing membrane. The shoes curb has 1/2” of a solid pvc so you can actually drill into it. Never understood other manufacturers making curbs just out of foam.
I'm going to be using a similar pan system by RSS with goBoard for the walls. No curb though, I have room to build up a slight ramp with mortar. After seeing this video though I plan on not trusting just the polyurethane joint, I'll be using waterproof taping and hydroban the entire thing.
I am sitting here watching this video and your assumptions are really bad. I am a certified WEDI installer and have spent untold hours with the reps whenever I have questions. Here are some places where I disagree with you.
1. The pan is soft - We have NEVER seen any flexing in a shower pan. We have reinforced plywood floors BEFORE installing if we felt they were flexing. That is not a WEDI problem. And to say that you like hot mop pans? They cure hard and when you get seismic movement (your term), they crack. I saw a few of those after the 1994 Northridge earthquake.
2. Caulk - WEDI does NOT advocate caulking the joints. He said this was done in 2007 (13 years ago) and we were starting to use WEDI around that time. Any sealant from the company has always been grey. We were trained to use the sealant to connect the pan to the walls and then to apply an additional band of sealant that overlapped onto the floor and wall. We typically use a 6" broad knife for this and our band extends 3-4" on both planes.
3. Joint - where you show the wall/floor joint, there is NO sealant. Whenever we have bonded two pieces together, whether on the wall or a connection between two sheets, once cured it does not come apart.
4. Your issue with delamination at the floor/wall joint could have been caused by floor flexing, incorrect sealant or as simple as dirt in the joint (we always clean our joints after cutting and way overfill the rabbet. I would be sending those to WEDI for testing but everything I am seeing under the tile is installer error.
5. Pan installation - this might be the root cause of the problem and again, this is installer error and not WEDI. WEDI requires the installer to thinset the pan to the floor, regardless of whether it is concrete slab or plywood. There is none there and that would allow the pan to flex. No different that the same failures I see from floor backerboard failures when the installer does not thinset the panels to the floor or use enough screws/nails.
6. Conclusion - In my view, you are plain wrong. I am not a paid shill for WEDI; I just like their products. This failure is caused by nothing more than installer errors and it is unfair for you to negate a product that you are not familiar with. Take some WEDI classes and talk to the company reps.
BTW, I have over 35 years in the tile industry and have written two books with my partner. I, too, have REAL WORLD experience and failures related to products are extremely rare. I have done forensic work and worked with the Ceramic Tile Institute and the vast majority of failures are attributed to not following instructions.
Well said, i agree 100%
Star tile needs to patten his system. Because he claims his is better than any manufacturer, and in 20+ years. he never had a failure. I call bs on that. Issac has shown us that no system is absolutely fail proof. Thanks, Tile Coach, for showing the truth and continuing to spread awareness and knowledge.
Anyone who quits learning and getting better is definitely doomed for failure.
Flexable foam shower walls and 250lb guy day in day out. What could go wrong. LOL. I thought my concrete board was light.
Once you tile it and use an epoxy grout on the floor, there is no flex.....hell after you tile it there just isn’t any flex in the pan or the foam curb if you go that route. I do think I might start adding mesh tape with the sikiflex caulking though
Information and knowledge........ 100% great video. ..we got to feel bad for the home owner that thought he was getting a good deal.
This is a great example not to have a tile anything. Had a new tub put in with a well made tub surround. No more cleaning grout lines and mold
This is *exactly* the problem I just had only 2 and a half years after the install. The joints in the Wedi floor and where the walls meet the floor failed and I got massive rot in the subfloor and studs, water eventually appearing in the ceiling of the room below which alerted me to the issue. The Wedi sealant was used as specified.
The contractor is redoing the shower and part of the walls under warranty right now, using Wedi. He's creating a deeper rabbit in the floor pan and he's adding water seal tape at the corners and all joints and RedGard over the the bottom 3 feet of the entire shower. I sure hope that's sufficient! I don't have degradation in the foam so he's not replacing the shower bed. The local tile shop convinced me to use this material as superior to green board in the original install. I wish I had seen this a week ago.
I've been using Wedi for over 15 years and even then the company supplied their own sealant and warned against using other products. While I've seen hotmops fail, none of my Wedi installations did. In Mike's case obviously a lot of cheap shortcuts were taken, starting with leaving the old greenboard in and creating a Wedi filler board (instead of demoing all of it properly down to the studs) to using cheaper Sikaflex instead of pricey Wedi sealant. This has been probably leaking from the get go (a 24h water test wouldn't detect a small leak, you know that) and pointing to all that timber damage is good youtube sensationalism, but is nothing but to be expected if it's been leaking for over ten years due to an installer who didn't know what he was doing or did't care. Why is he out of business....
That's one reason I like a fiberglass shower base or composite base. There's less chance of leaking and I like the look.
Unless a WEDI representative supervised the install wouldn't they deny a claim consistently regardless of using a "certified" installer?? You're strictly at their mercy. You're SOL as soon as the tile installer goes out of business.
This is why I quit all flooring, manufacturers always blame the installer, no matter what happened, 18 years in flooring
Yes, you would have to take them to court and have an extremely well-documented install and a good lawyer...
If they can deny a claim done by a "certified installer" I'm sure they would deny one with one of their reps present as well.
I wonder if what is going on is that if a significant number of these are failing at the upper limit of the warranty and they are just denying every claim and hoping that the homeowner will just back down and go away.
I looked at Wedi yrs ago when one of my suppliers started carrying it. I couldn’t believe the whole system is based on caulking. In a perfect controlled environment it would probably work just fine. Add a semi controlled job site and a moment of inattention and this is what you get. I’ve been using schluter for years without issue but I don’t trust anyone else to do the install. I take my time and follow all the specs.
The also have an additional waterproofing membrane that can be applied on top of the system like Kerdi, called subliner dry.
I've never heard of "WEDI" or worked with it but looking at the design alone is a LOL. A rabbet joint on the pan at the most vulnerable joint? Engineering fail at its finest.
Exactly.
Wedi is NOT a good system.
Whatever happened to a lead, rubber or copper pan/liner that goes up the wall a foot or two?
Who gets on the floor of a shower to look for cracks?
Not me! I want a tried and true, fail safe system, with proper flashing to prevent any/all water leaks/rot/mold and termite damage and related headaches.
I want a job to always to be done right the Frist time.
I'm not interested in having my house being torn up, over and over.
Screw Wedi. Never heard of them. And will now, Never, Ever use them. They obviously don't understand that the best advertising is GOOD word of mouth. How much will it cost them to undo the damage of this video?
Good word of mouth, from happy customers, is PRICELESS!!!
WTF WEDI!!!
Make your customers happy!
Or go out of business!!!
GM almost went out of business because they forgot how to make their customers happy. And I bet GM is a heck of a lot bigger than Wedi. So Wedi could go down the tubes in a flash.
With videos like this they can't ever advertise their way into to my house!
Absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's a good product for wetrooms but no good if you've got a cowboy installing it. Mines been in 14 years with no leaks whatsoever because I did it properly. The crap joint is crap because of the installer. It's not the way wedi recommend doing it.
Sorry, you're an idiot, if you don't understand the system then don't comment.
@@paul756uk2 this was installed by a WEDI certified installer and waterproof tested by the state. We know it can pass, but this video just proves how fragile this system is to failure. Sorry bruh, your argument is not convincing me to use this... You couldn't pay me to have this shower system used in my house!!!
Been doing wedi this year did two custom shower with this system , never again thanks for the video , also a certified weidi installer from
Ohio . Going back to the old method , I foresee warranty replace my in the near future !
Don't worry about what you did. Wedi is good as long as you used the wedi caulk sealant. It clearly wasn't used here and is the failure.
How did Wedi determine that the movement caused the leak? The tiles could have started moving after the substructure started to rot.
Reps aren't in the business of finding the root of a problem, they're job is to be your buddy to get your business and if there's a problem, to find any way for the company to not be liable...
Easy.. because they will say whatever to invalidate the claim lol
Thanks for showing this, I was going to get a system for a walk-in shower but I think I'll just do it the old fashion way, motor bed.
I don't get how you can properly seal to foam without a solvent based sealant that would penetrate into the foam. It's just not possible to seal to foam surfaces.
Glad I saw this as I was considering using wedi for my bathroom makeover. Thanks for the heads up! I feel bad for the homeowner
Failure by design, there should be a class action.
Black paper, chicken wire, prefloat, membrane final 2 inch cement chicken wire up 6 inches on the edge never failed me been doing this over 20 yrs it's more work but at the end never fails ofcouse if done right good old old school
Having not long installed a similar foamboard shower system (Marmox) as a DIY effort at my own house. I'm glad after seeing this that not only were all board joints sealed but i also used the self adhesive tanking tape on the wallboard to former right around the perimeter of the tray, internal corners floor to ceiling, and all low level board joints. Hopefully avoiding this suspected failure point.
Mapei has a self sealing bandage as does Technokolla, they are designed to be a consistent crack coverage item for a full liquid applied membrane. They do not work well by themselves. Marmox is under parent company WarmUp and their system sucks balls....it really does.
Here in New Zealand, they place a sheet waterproofing membrane, then the marmox board, then the underfloor heating and tiling....all wrong. The bathrooms smell musty and all the levels are out unless the room was plumb and level from the start. Totally dumb system thats overpriced.
The compressive strength of masonry is proven through out time. The prepitch, pan liner and mud pan system is water tight and allows a path of flow for any water that does penetrate. The movement of wooden structures should be considered. The use of pressure treated lumber beneath an area or adjacent to an area of expectant moisture is mandatory in my opinion. Most of my experience is with concrete floors and concrete block walls.
Pressure treated lumber in a shower is a huge no-no. Pressure treated lumber as it dries will have more flex, more movement and its more prone to cracking than any kiln dried dimensional lumber. This is Construction Science 101
I appreciate the videos Issac, and the honesty of taking blame where needed. It gives us all a better name, knowing that some of us do stand behind their work. I also agree that some of these manufactures do sell the ease of their systems, and sometimes neglect their lack of strength. Kerdi does have some good products, but I never use their Kerdi board. It has way too much give in it for my liking. Also, your "failed" videos show not all is not pretty about the industry. What looks good doesn't always translate into being good, as we see in the fails. Good work, and informative videos!!
Same thing I've been saying all along... When you have a warranty claim they will find a reason to deny. Yet all the schluter apologist swear up and down that you can't live without that warranty. That warranty is as good as the toilet paper in his bathroom.
By the way, you are America's Mike Holmes for showing how things should be done. Do it Right, Do it Once ! Hoping one day a network lands you a reno show, you have good camera presence and you know your stuff ! Ever think about coming to Canada ?
I use Wedi regularly, in fact, I left Schulter for Wedi. the whole when to use modified/ when to use unmodified thin-set was too much for the installers to keep track of. I know they got away from that but the other probs were not getting the thin-set soupy enough to get the corners and seams nice and flush, creating definite issues with the finish installation of the tile/ outcome. but my point is this. A correctly sealed shower floor to wall pane, joint, or therefore any joint with Wedi is a two-step process with the sealant. The first application is in the groove along the edges (generous amount), push in the panel, smooth off any oozing. All wall panel corners and edges get first application of sealant at all edges during the install, then and this is the part of why I'm commenting, the entire system gets a second and last generous application of sealant to all flat seams, corners where wall panels meet the shower pan and where all wall panel corners meet and you tool it all flat with nice wood shims or a plastic putty knife. Do not skimp on the sealant and you will be fine!! I love the relative simplicity of how I can do things like add the recessed shower niche once tile is underway to precisely pinpoint it where I want it and the size I need it to be to fall within my grout joints or whatever I'm trying to do for the particular installation. We always make sure our framing and subflooring is very thorough. We haven't used mudset since I began the switch to these modern systems approx 10 years ago. We had probs with mud set pans holding water, un even tiles, long labor times to assemble etc. messy as hell to build and its just plain, old school.
Agreed! I use wedi. You absolutely have to install as they tell you to. Like you said 2 Steps. I took the wedi seminar. The guy said fill the entire ½” gap then push the wall board in and the put another generous bead in the corner and smooth out. There's a reason the kit comes with like 10 fucking tubes. You're not supposed to go home with 3!
I love your analysis! You are true professional!
Built in benches cause of problem..
In puerto Rico we use concrete never fails..
All these systems out are complete garbage..
I do the same in north america !
Well said Manuel! Shower benches can be done perfectly without any problems but only if done by a true craftsperson who understands things from foundation to finish. BTW, I LOVE PR and can't wait to visit again! I have learned firsthand how amazing so many artisans are from where you live. It's the best place, people, and food on planet earth, IMHO. Bueno!
The only problem is that your subfloor is constantly moving so it will crack concrete over time
I've been tiling 25 years and I'm so glad i never tried this garbage. .
Great video, I love the detailed analysis.
I think the floor wasn't properly supported, and the rabbet but had dust in it.
Both of these things suggest an improper install.
The system isn't resilient , too many points of potential failure, with no fail-safes.
Here in the UK, and I think much of Europe, the bases of showers are usually solid one-piece ceramic or resin castings, like a shallow bath. Seem much less likely to fail. Why is tiling the bottom of showers so common in the US?
this is some good content issac!
Materials and Methods have far improved the last 15 yrs.
The Wedi company should be sued for that design. That is absolutely garbage.
You're the man Issac. I love that you run down the problems and own your own mistakes.
Hey now, there are some good handymen out there. PVC liner and redgard in every one of my showers.
I like the pvc liner that I used on my last job and I sealed the entire porcelain shower or every grout line actually with a good product that has held up so far.
That is a crazy system.... You can't beat a separate shower tray with tanking and classic seal bitumen upstands on wooden floor installs..... That system I would not touch with a bargepole.
Call me old school but I prefer to pack the mortar beds ourselves instead of the foam pre-sloped trays.
ditto
You did this very well, I am impressed..
Hello, Wedi installer here.
Although I work in Europe, I am always interested by failures with the brand I install:
- Even the best brands have failures and they always leave us facing the customer and resorting to our insurance in the end. So it's good to know if that's the case.
- When it's the contractor's fault, you can always learn something. Mainly what not to do.
In your case, it seems like a contractor's really faulty work. It really is stricking that he was supposed to be a certified WEDI installer.
When you install a Wedi floor, you must seal the all the floor/walls junctions with a strip and a bi-component "resin" (not sure on the right US term, but it ends up still elastic after drying), as shown on this official video here: ruclips.net/video/27GTTK3MqMg/видео.html . I'm btw surprised on how US targeted videos barely talk about it while the point is heavily emphasised on EU ones.
On the showers I typically install with my tiler buddy, we first waterproof all the walls with a liquid sealant and strips in all the corners (we don't use Wedi walls, it usually is drywall or bricks based), then add the strips and Wedi bi-component sealant and waterproof all the floor/wall junctions. He can then start working after complete drying. Never had a failure so far.
A sealant bead can and will never make it. Of course it would end up faulty, even more in the US where wooden house tend to work more than our concrete based structures.
Anyways, thanks for sharing and keep it up!
As an addition, I've also never seen the "rabbet" in EU WEDI shower pans.
Why you don’t use the Wedi walls? Im thinking to do that in my bathroom but now you make me hesitating
@@jpeters7594 Sorry for being late. I had a whole lot of work and no time to chill on RUclips.
Anyways, I don't use them because I don't need to. I waterproof all the walls with two resin coats, then use the kit provided by Wedi to waterproof the wall/floor junction.
By any means, it doesn't mean wedi walls are a bad product. It works well in standardized environments with drywalls and but is trickier to work with when walls are not completely straight or vertical. Also, since you add another layer, it means a loss of centimeters in the shower area. In some cases, it doesn't matter, in others it's critical.
There's never a miracle product, it's all about choices.
If a shower pan leaks it will almost always fall back to the installer. I rarely see a manufacturer stand up and take responsibility for a shower pan failure. As an installer I always second guess the manufactures instructions and then fall back on my experience to install a leak proof shower pan. Relying on a caulking joint scares the heck out of me, would never go there.
This is why I use fiberglass floor pan.
Hardi backer. Mud pan. Mesh tape joints with thinset. Miracote or equivalent. Water runs down hill-form no dams. Litany of errors. Go Issac.
As a bathroom remodeler for almost 4 decades; that flood test is good for the drain, for a bit; They're not hard to pass...If you lost an ounce or so through the leak; you'd probably wouldn't see the water level drop...All the inspectors I've had just do a stop by...If your pan is holding water they give you the go for tile...The PVC pans with the Oatey drains work great...I always do a preslope though...Some people do, some don't...I like to sleep at night...:)... I think the most important part is the bottom one foot of the walls or curbs...If those are tight; ( i aqua seal mine three times...Gives me some time for other stuff too....:)...)