This Schluter Kerdi Shower FAILED!!!- But Who's to BLAME???
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- Опубликовано: 23 янв 2020
- I had one of my viewers reach out to find out why his beautiful granite slab shower is leaking. This video shows the forensic analysis of why and how this shower started leaking, and what could have been done to prevent it. Although Schluter Kerdi showers are a relatively new system, they have become increasingly popular so the amount of tear outs and remodels lately has been increasing as well.
With a new system, we are only beginning to understand how the Schluter Kerdi system holds up over time, especially given the fact that thinset mortar (not waterproof) is used in the assembly of the waterproofing components.
Now that the systems have been widely installed for over 10 years, remodeling of original Schluter Kerdi showers are taking place at a higher frequency than ever. This gives us a more comprehensive look at how the system performs over time.
The main variable in all these installations, is the human error component. Did they follow instructions? Did they use one of the components incorrectly? In the case of this video, the original installer made two blatant errors in both the installation of the membrane itself, and the installation of the granite on the shower pan. Watch the video to see where the installer went wrong, and a design flaw in the kerdi drain which may have contributed to the issues the homeowner is dealing with.
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I wasn't prepared to see him hit the granite with the hammer. It's like watching a slasher film.
I installed my first Schluter shower system over twenty five years ago, a steam shower in my own ensuite. Since then I’ve installed literally hundreds of Schluter shower systems. Not one failure. I’ve been setting tile for forty four years. I think thats a very definitive endorsement for the Schluter shower system.
Yeah installer error
Idk in the last two years the majority of the showers we have pulled out have been schluter systems, I personally install both but preferr wedi. I have never pulled out a failing wedii system
Sounds like my profile exactly. Over 40 years in the trade, been using Schluter for over 20 years, never a failure. I've watched a bunch of these videos, and can find installer error/non Schluter approved methods of installation in all of them. I suggest all installers take a Schluter installation seminar before their first install. Should they ever have a question, Schluter's tech guys are great. This trade (at least in my area) is plagued by bucket and trowel hacks that couldn't carry water for me.
My middle daughter is new to the industry but she goes to every Schluter “show” and it’s a hands on show so everyone is actually putting the system together including the mud/membrane application.
Douglas, I have Schulter in a remodeled bath. Dry as a bone. No issues. The only problem is it is very expensive. 💰💸💸
This was the video I've been looking for man. As an architectural designer, I've designed many a shower in my day. I can't tell you how little faith I've had in lightweight systems like the Schluter and NOT because of the product, but because of the installer's level of education on how to do it right. Thank you for this video! Installers need to look at what they're assembling and the whole time they're building it should say to themselves "where will the water go?" "Have I overlapped materials from top down?" "Water WILL get through grout joints due to expansion and contraction so where does that water end up?" That alone is why I never liked cementitious backer board because so many people thought of it as waterproof. I had so many arguments in the past with installers who thought exactly that, they saw the cementitious backer board as the wonder product that it really is not. I'm so glad you know this and are able to use these failures to educate. Kudos!!
How can you fuck up the install?Im not a tile guy by trade but I just watched the video online and did three showers in my house and 7 years later I don’t have a sign of any water leaking anywhere..Serious question as a person with experience what are you seeing people fail at when installing Kerdi systems?
@@Halfdead211 Part of it is that floor and wall framing can be sub-par, too flexible, not properly fastened or partially rotted from a previous shower setup. This can cause excessive movement of the materials from different forces acting on the shower enclosure. Some of these can be like when houses get moved around by high winds - you can hear your house groaning nad making little crackling sounds when a hurricane gust smacks it, especially if it's older than the 60s before plywood was used as exterior sheathing or floor sheathing. Those older homes have less resistance to flexural, rotational and diagonal movements that plywood in modern homes prevents. Also, a heavy person - or two people - inside the shower... the momentary weight on weak framing can slowly cause failures. It's not anything people normally think of is it? But it's a reality. Also, Kerdi and other systems made of expanded foam are not perfect. That foam substrate will not age well in instances of impacts. Dropping heavy objects on the sill, for instance. Even if the tile didn't crack, there may have been a minute joint failure somehow. Things can happen in substrate materials and methods that are at a microscopic level not visible to the naked eye, but boy does water love travelling those capillary pathways! Something I still have to grapple is the use of a putty knife in the corners to "tape" the seams. I'm curious how waterproof that mud material really is. And not everyone springs for the more expensive epoxy tile grout, the semi-flexible waterproof kind which helps prevent water from getting behind the tile in the first place. Grout is your first line of defense - don't cheap out on it! A final comment is installers: Not every person who has chosen the path of being a contractor/installer of materials has the emotional or mental strength to put in the extra time and effort to nail the details. I've seen so much hack work in my career. It may not always be hack installers - it might be a zealous manager who's trying to push guys on tight deadlines and budgets for maximum profit and the end result is poor install quality leading to ultimate failures. There are so many reasons a specialized system like this can fail.
I've seen plenty of screwed up PVC pan installs. The problem is with pride, ignorance, or a combination of the two pertaining to installation. The bulk of the problem usually lies with the installing contractor.
I’m not sure what the lack of your faith has to do with Schluter… With it, you need to follow the same general rules of waterproofing like with any other system. If you screw up Schluter, you are likely to screw up with any other product too.
But Schluter provides a LOT of support, and warranty, unlike other products.
Humility, professionalism and care for the service you provide are all great examples of good working ethics. Thank you for sharing with those of us that are willing to learn.
Hello, Mr. Issac. I am a bit late watching this upload, still, your professionalism shines throughout the discovery of the water leak. Kudos to the homeowner. The good of this situation is that he found you before the wood turned to complete mush and the floor joist gave out underneath the shower.
You are so humble! I suspect that’s why you’ve amassed such expertise... you’re always learning. Thanks so much for sharing your expertise and experience with all of us!
nope bad tiler... especially with natural stone. i can talk on that cause my house is filled with travertine and i installed it and i learned all the tricks to it. he should be banned from natural stone
When he fired up the shop vac I was like "OMG they make a shopvac chisel?!?!?"
Then...
That's a great attitude you have about sharing experiences and knowledge making us all better. Thanks for posting this video and for supporting all the good people who protect us every day. Love and peace ✌️,
Steve Wilson
Ontario Canada
Great video. I like being able to see how these systems hold up over time. Thanks
You’re awesome dude. Enjoy watching you dissect the issue, getting to the failure and trying your best to explain it.. 👍🏽
I love watching these kind of screw up. Thanks for taking the time to do this.🤗
That's why I continue to use my Oatey PVC pan liner for the shower pan and kerdi for the walls. Thanks to your videos, I don't think I will use kerdi again in my next projects. Thank you.
OMG what a beautiful shower! That looked bulletproof...can’t believe it leaked.
It was a polished turd - nothing bulletproof about it. Once he actually got through the granite and showed the spot bonding they used, the verdict was in that it wasn't a failure of the Kerdi - it was a failure of the installers who polished that steaming pile and called it good.
@@joek5161
Bro that failure had very little if anything to do with spot bonding. No weep holes, and the curb wasn't even waterproofed. Case closed.
In the same way that you're supposed to trowel towards the drain, so the grooves provide drainage in the right direction, more space would mean faster drainage if it was weeped properly.
This is why I still do a shower pan liner with a bedding mix over it before tiling a shower floor.
Old school yes ...
Problems - none
I have seen plenty of failed shower pan liners. You are just an old school installer who installs pan liners right.
@@forensic8385 The shower pan liner at my place failed because the installer screwed through it to attach cement board to the curb...
@@paul_price Yup, or they dont fold the corners correctly, or they dont attach it to the drain assembly correctly, or they dont integrate waterproofing on the walls to the liner correctly.....
I'm with you on pan liners.done correctly never leak.instalers always rush to get liners covered fast.leads to problems down the road.instalers should be made to replace at there cost not homeowner.maybe they will learn to slow down and do it correctly.
@@fixerman6404 yep. Was never a problem with the packed liner system, only bad installations. Unlike today's stuff: bad systems AND bad installs. NOPE! Liner n pack all day. Done right it's bullet proof.
I'm having a hard time watching this. The granite is SOOOO beautiful!!!
@The Creature from the Seventh Chamber ....yeah SOOOO beautiful fucked up
Doesn't really suit that crammed corner.
@@dushk0 I agree. It is kind of tacky looking. Better off with some lighter and brighter
great job finding the problem, but it was physically painful watching that gorgeous stone get demolished. rip multi-million year old granite
Excellent video, totally concur with your points as I recently finished an independent room by room shower stall water ingress tests for 1700 rooms with forensic demolition at a major Hotel.
Great video Bro. I appreciate you sharing. I've been in the business for over 20 years and I've found that seeing how things fail gives me the knowledge to better how I do things for my clients. I just started putting in Kerdi shower pans the past couple years(only because that's what my clients ask for). I have reservations on the longevity and durability of this product. Appreciate you.
This is very insightful and I appreciate you identifying a mitigation strategy.
Im doing a DIY concrete shower pan and am very thankful for vids like this. Im taking my time and watching a lot of vids on how to do it right and more importantly, how not to do it. 👍
got a link to your project?
With pre-slope?
How did the install last? I hope perfectly well.
I would love for the original installers to see this video, and to see their reactions.
New subscriber! Thanks Issac for tackling this sad situation. The problem with installs is that the homeowner trusts the contractor to do it correctly. Oftentimes, problems due to poor workmanship or just plain lack of knowledge by the contractor, causes massive problems like this. Poor homeowner - in more than one way! Sad.
Good video man! All the simple knowledge info and dissecting failures like this help me and I'm sure other people with future installs. I appreciate your videos.
I imagine a granite shower must go on an absolutely perfectly framed, level and square, like Starrett machinist level, floor/wall/ceiling. Poor Andrew, he must have been in shock as you smashed away his 30K$ shower...
Oh man, this was painful to watch but educational, so thanks!
One of the best detailed examinations of a shower drain and leak problems due to improper installation. Thank you for the great detail and information. A cross sectional view of the proper engineered solution would be of great help.
Great video as usual, appreciate the content very much. As a DIY'er always learning from your content. Cheers.
Do you have an update to this video? Would love to see how you resolved the issue and final shot of finished product.
Look at all that water seeping out when you punctured the granite! That's insane. Spot bonding a pan is crazy, no waterproofed curb and water traveling down and under. I know a lot of people talk about waterproof redundancy, but adding that Ardex 8+9 seems like a no brainer to us. It's a small price to pay for the Ardex 8+9 and a quick 20 minute roll on?? Why not? We may start adding this to our builds. Schluter tear outs are rare! Great video Isaac!
Landberg Tile TV not a Schluter problem...we need better training in the trades to prevent this from happening.
@@codyburgess7034 absolutely agree!
@@LandbergTileTV Insane is the word, thanks for your reviews of the tile levelling systems a while back btw.
@@codyburgess7034 : Ignorance in every trade. I just saw a flooded retail location: 5 years since build out, plumber set utility room drain so high that an after hours failed faucet flooded 40 feet in all directions. Carpet, walls and merch soaked. Ridiculous the stuff I've seen in these places. HOW DOES THAT PASS INSPECTIONS?? I'm an electronics guy, yet even i know the floor drain shouldn't be built like a kids model volcano!
Looks like they fabricated the floor out of a single slab of granite, with some tight grout lines. It likely would have been a ton of work if not impossible to get full mortar coverage underneath considering the size of the pieces. Unless you make the mortar super runny.
If they would have waterproofed the curb and perimeter, it likely would have lasted a whole lot longer.
Thanks for this video, doing my first kerdi base next week and came across this. Will definitely check out the Ardex 8+9
Just found TileCoach on youtube...glad I did! These are the types of videos I rarely find...but they prove to be the most useful...we can learn so much from proper problem solving. Thanks for this type of content! Now a subscriber...
wd good presentation no blame game no negativity very well narrated
I'm loving the slow-mo flashbacks 🤣
Hey Isaac, thanks man, this was really informative. I have done the Schluter workshop, and really thought the product was bang on. This opened my eyes. I also see too how the original installers here lacked real knowledge of how to install that base to drain properly.
Its not kerdi man. Its installer error. Got cheap and half asked that expensive job
Not a Kerdi problem they didn’t use it right at all especially in the floor to wall transitions
Your forensics to find the area of failure in some of your videos are invaluable. You should be paid by all shower system companies just to do forensic testing.
Probably the best video on a shower fail ever. I’m sure Kerdi would love to pick your brain to improve their process!
Curious if a shower fails, and someone like you comes in and finds that everything else was installed as Schluter specified, but you find the issue with the fleece and the bonding flange on the drain as causing the failure... will the company pay for it to be fixed? Their 10 year limited warranty isn't looking so hot if we are seeing these fail at 15 lol. To me, a shower should last 30 years bare minimum or it's not even worth doing.
What is your general opinion of Schluter shower kits and systems if it's all done exactly as described?
Man, that’s painful to see that granite having to be destroyed. Feel bad for the owner
Doubtful they could ever match it.
He didnt pay for it really. It was part of an issue when they bought it
Yeah it made me cringe when he just started whacking that thing with a hammer. As bad as the install is, that stuff probably would have popped out with a little persuading. I've done a ton of demos though and I'm always looking to see how I can salvage original stuff wherever possible. I hate to second guess the guy actually doing the work
update: Yeah there's no way in hell that stuff was coming out in less than 1 million pieces. Nice work!
@@titusdaniel
That was my thought. As always. As homeowner, I would have insisted on that.
@@jasonlalonde171 He didn't?. It wasn't included in the cost of the house?? LOL
I did a schluter shower in my house in 2008. 2-4 people use it daily and no leaks to date.
That was my first tiling project and I read the kerdi shower handbook and read it over and over again.
Only use non modified mortar and be sure Kerdi is everywhere in and around the shower. Water sprays everywhere in a shower and it all needs to be protected.
About to do a second shower in our house and it’s a schluter kit as well.
I’ve used ceramic tile and will do again. Not sure about the granite in a shower.
So sad that original installer didn’t put any on that curb, which is clearly where the leaks started and weeped under the flooring.
Love the video and full analysis of diagnosing and forensic demo to see what went wrong. Thank you!
Tanks for the video. (Tile coach) Tampa tile installers from Clearwater Florida..
Everytime I see a fail video of yours the more I just want a plastic shower :)
I'm redoing my bathro and I literally just said to myself "ok I'm going with a solid prefabbed shower pan" after watching this video. Lol!
Or u could dive a little deeper and find out why they failed. Perhaps they used the wrong type of thinset?
@@ryanspence7239 or avoid the bs and just get an insert with some kind of design you like
Lol at these replies. Or you could hire an actual professional. If you can’t afford one, prefab it is!
robert warner you do your due diligence and ask the proper questions, do your research, pay attention to how they’re doing things, and get several bids. Don’t just let someone come into your expensive house and just start pecking away cause he says he knows what he’s doing
Andrew must be a low key Millionaire
Great video!!! Big thanks on showing the issues that I need avoid! Thanks a ton.
Great Job explaining in detail what happened
Can you list the product you use in your installations? As a diyer that would be extremely helpful. Your videos are truly informative and I'm hooked.
I haven't finished the video yet but I can tell you the weep holes are covered. That's the only way you'll have standing water under the stone. I've replaced a few stone shower floors and the thin set was covering the weep holes. I drilled them out and put in the new floor and all was well
I will use this video but 4 month from now. How do I cancel now?
There are no weep holes on a Kerdi drain. You must be talking about traditional drains. I use small stones for those so they never get clogged.
Very interesting to watch this. Not a tile guy, will never install tile, but I do find it fascinating.
I started using schluter systems in 2007. I have seen a few issues over time. Love the 8 plus 9 mod 🤙🏼
I’m going to be doing a compete bathroom remodel and have been watching a lot of videos. It seems that the old school preslope, liner, and mud bed is the best system so far. The new ones are expensive and aren’t as stable as the old way.
That's what I did in my shower, combined with Redgard on the Hardie walls as a vapor barrier. If I had to do it over again, I would do a preslope covered with 3 coats of Redgard (no vinyl liner and additional mud bed), so long as I can get the water from on top of the Redgard into the drain via weep holes. Be sure to check out floorelf.com, which is where I got a lot of my shower wisdom.
Preslope, hotmop, gravel around weep holes, mortar bed, set tile, done. Thats the floor process
How would you have prevented water from getting under tiles in the first place?
This is the exact issue that my dad told me he was fearful of when I was trying to get him to use it. He is old school from the early 80s. I love the schluter drains but I have always just hydrobaned my showers with three coats and no kerdi. It has worked out well for me. Great video 👍. I'll have to show my Dad.
The kerdi system was not AT ALL installed properly. Nothing wrong with Kerdi, but there is if you don’t install it properly. You did watch the whole video, right?
@@justinhc123 yes I watched it all. I have also watched the kerdi testing that has been done by Issac. I just prefer to paint the membrane on because it has never failed me. I have even started painting over the kerdi as Issac has shown to speed up the water testing.
@@ryancoulter7681 correct. Redgard all the way. Never had a problem
@@abewilcox4560 redgard, aquadefense, hydroban, ardex 8+9. It's all the same. Hydroban is readily available to me so I use it. I have used the 8+9 on request and love it as well. I have to order it so it takes a few days to get it but it's nice. The redgard and aquadefense I am a bit unsold on because it is so mass production being in Lowe's and HD.
@@ryancoulter7681 I've used the Superior Pro Shield Plus, and it was exactly the same as redgard. Even smelled the same, probably comes from the same factory, so I have full faith in redgard at this point, at least until I have a reason to not believe. Plus it's readily available at almost every corner. Lowe's here on the east coast is now carrying Mapei, and i know they carry a similar product, so that is even an additional option. The 8+9 seems like a cement based product, which I would think may effect it's elasticity, but I haven't used it so I don't know.
really good info, it was a great point you made about newish products & methods standing the test of time. you would freak if you saw what i did with my bathroom when i didn't know any better 15 years ago,
Coach, I appreciate your transparency on your videos, I 've been watching your video for over a year. I'm using the Schulter system on my demo, I also appreciate the recommendation for the ARDEX 8 plus 9. Thanks for your guidance.
question is, does that void the warranty?
Well, it's been over or approx. a year by now... So, did your shower fall through your floor yet and end is your basement..??
From what I see this shower never had a chance. The curb was never water sealed and any water that rolled down either wall pooled around and under the curb. Period that is a installer issue. 2nd he said he found some patching products. Maybe they did a flood test and found out early on something wasn't right and instead of fixing it thought, hey it's granite, it won't be a problem. I don't see this as a Schluter issue. I as a home owner did a large walk in shower with durrock and Kerdi membrane and I overlapped treated every corner as per instructions. We had a linear drain long before they were being seen a lot. With a foam pitch with Noble fabric on it. The shower performed flawlessly for years. It's still going strong, we sold the house and I would have heard from them if they were having issues. We then did a tub surround in that same house. No problems.. but I learn how and kill myself to avoid issues.
I bet you sold the house because you realized what a shity idea linear drains are.
So you take the worst part of a shower, the drain. And make it really really big so now you have more of the most crappiest part of a shower. Ya I will and have put them in but am laughing the whole time, YOU GET TO CLEAN THAT. Linear drains were the brain child of a dumb ass designer who thought they are the shit.
"They are all going to laugh at you".
All that meets the eye, cheap out on the rest. Better do a solid installation and save on the surface.
Isaac, Have you ever run into any Laticrete failures yet. I have been using Laticrete products for the past 8 years. I have not had any call backs but your videos def concern me as I have used the Schluter shower system aswell. Really appreciate your videos as I am always wanting to learn how to be the best. Thank you!
The good thing about Laticrete is it doesn't have that fleece over the flange. And, if doing it right, you use hydroban over everything, including coating into the flange. So any sitting water runs down into drain. And it's not like pieces are thinsetted down. Thinset mortar is not waterproof. But with Schluter, it is used to adhere the waterproof materials. Coat the whole shabang in HydrBan and sleep easy. You can coat a sneakerbox with it and it will hold water.
Great video - thanks for sharing. I learned a lot!
Always looking forward to your videos.
I have always used a pvc pan liner in all my shower installs.
I used to also but PVC pans are passé. Nothing beats a well-installed Schluter Kerdi job.
@@MrGreggallman Hardly passé, they are still around and work just fine.
Another great video. Question.
When it comes to protecting the weep holes, I've seen many place some gravel around them before laying the mortar bed. There's also the clear plastic weep hole protector, collar thing you can use which lays over the weep holes. Which do you prefer? Thank you.
That seems irrelevant , shouldn't have to put nothing there is no waterproofing over weep holes ,as he said water will find a way ,more important is a preslope
lol I just sent your "Wedi" video to my Schluter Rep yesterday. So now I'll have to send this one too. Lol I've built a bunch of Schluter showers. I always make sure the drain top is lower than the surrounding tile. Maybe we're all just whistling through the cemetery....
One of my favorite channels
18:58 It obviously looks like A LOT of thinset (possible wrong thinset, i.e. modified instead of non-modified) causing water to penetrate. Suspecting wrong thrower was used instead of 1/8-1/8 required by manufacturer, causing installation issues as a result.
please tell me what is the difference with modified vs non modified thinset and second question might be, that information is shown in every bag of thinset?
Thanks I didnt know anything about it
@@alfonsoaguirre183 modified has added polymer to it's more flexible. Schlluter used to recommend unmodified but now they recommend modified and sell their own thinset which is modified.
@@joshjones9878 From what I've learned watching Schluter company videos, they say to use modified thinset for the underlayment (Ditra to subfloor), and un-modified thinset for the tiling on top of the Ditra. Is this not correct?
@@seeburg220 following
I'm getting ready to put in a new shower and even though it's on a new concrete floor I will definitely be using a good old fashioned Oatey shower drain. I hope that Kerdi pays attention to your videos and fixes the problem with thier drains. Will you still use the Kerdi drains?
I only use schluter waterproofing, drains etc. Follow all the instructions, do the flood test and youre good. This is just a really really stupid installation of the kerdi products and the granite too
We’re looking to do a bathroom remodel in northern NY. It was last done in the 1980s, and the shower is shot. I CANNOT find a good tile guy to do the work - lots of “I do this in my spare time,” but I one licensed and insured.
Good video. This is why nothing in the market beats durock . Install durock with water proofing seal and you will never have to deal with this situation. When dealing with something like bathroom that you have to much to lose when it goes wrong, Simplicity is always the best
I had that same Eastwing hammer until someone stole it about 7 months ago, where did you get my hammer from?
A lot of comments on here against Kerdi or adding additional water proofing on top of Kerdi. This failure has ZERO to do with Kerdi and 100 to do with a contractor who had no idea what they were doing...
@@Jessica-to8um Correction *"Everyone he has seen that had standing water issues"*
I'm schulter certified installer. This is what happens when you use their product. They offer a ten year warranty... if installed correctly. Which still fails consistently. Ya must be the contractor.... easy out.
I've been installing kerdi since 2002, never had the issues he has had in Michigan. I don't know if it's ever been mentioned, but there shouldn't be 1/4 inch of thinset between membrane and flange. This was a clueless installation, and has nothing to do with him personally or the system done properly.
T.E.M.P. Racing PLEASE, there is no such thing as a certified Schluter installer !!!!
@@tophatt5706 Agree. Horrible install...Looks good, but as they say the most important part of any construction project is the foundation. What is underneath is nothing but shit
Such an educational video - thanks!
Excellent Video And good to know how even schluter waterproof fails
I enjoyed the video - but damn, that autofocus had me going crazy.
Every product not installed according to manufacturers instructions is going to run the possibly of failure. 95% of the showers I have torn out have failed.. mostly to improper installation not the product they used.
This video put you over everyone out there Isaac. You are my Tile Coach. The way you diagnose is amazing. And your vocabulary is so on target. Thank you so much.
i'm from midwest...ohio/michigan..I always remember in houses i grew up in 1 piece, fiberglass shower/tub, while not particularly glamorous....if installed during framing stage...will last a long time with no leaks, its all one continuous piece. I know not always an option for older homes. this is my preferred option when possible.
My impression is that the lightweight pan/panel systems rely very heavily on precise installation practices. Those unwilling to be this fastidious should probably stick with more traditional methods? I'm looking at Kerdi and Wedi systems for a shower, and I'm leaning towards the Wedi due to bonding issues with the Kerdi fabric.
..lol
Well the "Kerdi" Lego~Land systems are keeping us in the N.W very busy, you know, doing tear-out & remodels. You never go wrong w/ a shower-pan, using the TRUE, TRIED & Time working method of a concrete dry-pack, and tar or synthetic tar waterproof!! (',
@@ourd0gseven Good feedback, thanks.
Anyone working in this trade should know the basics, like thin-sets not being waterproof.
And neither are all tile and stone waterproof. Including grout.
Another great video! Keep it up from the uk
Great video. Thanks for the tips
Don't be in a rush always do a 24hr flood test before any tile work.
Would this have been avoided, even with the spot-bonding cavities, if there were open 'weep holes' around the drain?
The issue is also the drain wicking up the thinset. Unless a drain is always working flawless and the weep holes are clear the wicking on the kerdi will occur since they use thinset and not waterproofing.
Weep holes are in a liner/flange/dry pack drain system. The schluter systems need to drain water after each use to work correctly. The foam pan might not have been installed on a level floor either which wouldn't help.
Great job finding the problem I believe it is 100% installer error, ive hot mopped and mud set for 27yrs for the last 8 yrs I only use the schluter system , I had one of my 1st showers leak and when we took it apart it really showed its face where the leak was and it was 100% my fault the leak was at the drain I had set my drain about 1/8 to low so I used thinset to bring it up to the hight of the foam pan then put my material over it that 1/8 of thinset was my leak now I dont use the foam pans anymore I float all my pans and I kerdi fix the material to the drain and around the perimeter of my band that has solved all problems of water getting in anywhere . Schluter is the best waterproofing product out there if it is installed properly keep up the good work brother
Within 5 minutes Ive come across a bunch of your videos about showers that have failed. I hope to god the guy that did ours this past spring did ours right.
Well this brings up a good question. Is it the waterproofing system that has the flaws or is it the installers not following proper install procedure that is causing the failures?
The issue is also the drain wicking up the thinset. Unless a drain is always working flawless and the weep holes are clear the wicking on the kerdi will occur since they use thinset and not waterproofing.
Theirs gotta be a way to save those walls! What a shame that’s a beautiful shower. Has to be close to $10k in granite there.
I can't be saved, cause the wall has to be waterproof at least 8" high from the shower floor. Unless he cuts the granite all around enough for wall to be waterproof, then tile it with something else. It will save that granite, but lots of work and difficult, cause the cut has to be done by hand with grinder and it has to look straight and clean
@@amariza21 Some neutral color like black might be used to create a bottom border and floor and look good.
@@KameraShy oh yeah, definitely worth saving
Ive talked to the kerdy reps multiple times at conventions. They claim their system can be used reliably for roman tubs including ones filled on semi permanent basis. Your videos are giving me pause, have been using system successfully for 10+ years.
Very helpful! Good to know that Kerdi isn’t perfect.
It wasn't the Kerdi it was the installer!
From watching the Schluter training series, I heard that it is very important to use non-modified cement in sealing all joints. Could you tell whether the proper sealer thinset was used for this job? My husband and I are planning to use the Schluter products in a tub to walk-in shower conversion, and I am trying to learn everything I can about properly waterproofing the shower before starting to tile. You indicated that you use Ardex 8 plus 9 to totally cover the substrate before adding the thinset to do the tiling. So, it sounds like you would advocate using that product. I couldn't really tell whether you thought that a proper thinset had been used in the original construction of the shower, but I definitely saw the need to seal around the flange. Would really appreciate learning more... Great video!
that is a good question about the non modified thinset
thinset is going to wick. and fail. So he uses the ardex aware of that flaw
There is still room for weep in a Schluter system, but most plug those channels. If done RIGHT it is backed by the company. Been using it since the 90's 👍
Wouldn't tell me how would you. And if you have a minute. Why are some shluter pans presloped and others not. Do you not need a preslope with these systems
@@davegordon6943 All schluter pans are sloped. It's just some have the linear drain on one side giving it the appearance of a flat floor.
@@nicholassartell7421 thanks man. Appreciate it
I have watched most of your videos. My takeaways. Never ever trust the lightweight “waterproof” systems. I’ve been tiling for 25 years. Your video is now my argument to not trust these systems anymore. I have never had a insurance claim yet. So I will stay with what has worked for me.
Nice work. We do fiberglass pans then mortar bed to pitch to drain. New Jersey
The black stuff is possibly laticrete 9235 or that flex seal stuff. The granite company that did this job probably went belly up.....They had no idea on how to waterproof a shower lol
My guess is that they did it wrong in particular because they bid the shower extra to the granite install, so weren't used to doing showers. Probably didn't go out of business cuz it wasn't their main installation bid. I assume they spot bonded on purpose also thinking the water would flow past the blobs of bonding (waterproofing membrane would "save the pan/floor), so no need to waste the layer of protection the black film was supposed to provide. My guess anyhow.
Made me wonder if there wasn't a clear-coat epoxy or something to externally use on that gorgeous granite that could have served as waterproofing protection as well, though that still wouldn't solve the drain no-weep points issue. Not that external waterproofing would ultimately be sufficient due to house settle and/or wear over time. Sad to see such a beautiful job go to waste esp given the obvious work pit into the project...not as if they legit tried to cut corners as much as they obviously didn't know what they were doing/lacked expertise and were in over their heads.
We are redoing our master bathroom finally. We haven't used the shower in 13 years because it was leaking into my closet.
eww...
Thank you for the video its very informative 👍
Thanks for the video.
I love natural stone, especially granite like that.
So I just had to shudder when I saw you take that hammer to it.
“So water can weep”, as I weep for that beautiful, ruined stone.
Just saw the end. So can you even save those granite walls?
Let's hope so because that would be a real shame.
Very unlikely, since pan and curb needs rebuild along with waterproofing of walls at least 6in up. Those walls seem full size slabs, and were installed all way down to floor. You can see at 13:28 on video that walls were not cut off to ogle curb, but curb was put in between walls, whoever built it had high hopes on epoxy to seal seems and not realizing that natural stone is water permeable.
Natural stone should just be kept away from showers, it loves to take in water and also mineral buildup on the surface.
One-piece shower pans metal or fiberglass, porcelain on the walls, and you'll be care free for decades!
Damn, you can stand in the crawl space? now Im jealous....
So, more of a stand space or basement?
I definitely did that on the drain. Will be waterproofed from here on.
Excellent!
I did my first Kerdi install in 2015. Looks like I'll be ardexing any new Kerdi that I put down going forward.
jeffostroff why?
@@codyburgess7034 I like the idea of waterproofing around the drain better, rather than relying on the thin set under the kerdi to waterproof it, which is not really water proofing it. People always mistakenly think that thinset will waterproof a system, but thinset is a sponge for water.
jeffostroff totally agree that thinset is a sponge for sure but I just know that a proper install of Kerdi around a drain with proper coverage you should be fine 🤷🏼♂️
jeffostroff also remember the Kerdi system is reliant on water never getting behind the Kerdi thus the two inch over lap rule on all seams. Ideally, the thinset should never get wet if installed properly
Did my first Kerdi shower around 2012. Have done several since. Recently started adding Redguard to the overlaps for added insurance. I still like Kerdi, will continue to use it.
Here is the link to the video TileCoach talked about using the Ardex 8+9 in addition to the Kerdi method. TileCoach doesn't use a Kerdi shower pan in that install, but the idea is the same as far as I can tell. Good luck to all DIYers! ruclips.net/video/Cbd89xV0OpU/видео.html&ab_channel=TileCoach PS. Around forty seven minutes in that video
My first kerdi install WAS going to be this week. as a diy guy, I bought a kit, still in the box,
now lookng for plan B , That waterproofing liquid looks like the plan !
you are the thomas edison of the tile
Great video!