Room Correction For Mixing | Trinnov ST2 Pro vs SonarWorks
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- Are you struggling with the sound of your room and your mixes are not translating outside of your studio? If so, then your room may be lying to you and causing you to make bad mixing decisions.
Room correction can help you with the sound of your mixes? In this video, we're comparing two popular room correction tools: the Trinnov ST2 Pro and SonarWorks. In this video, I am giving my first impressions of both the features and sound of these 2 solutions and share my thoughts on which one might be the best fit for your home studio.
Whether you're a beginner or an experienced producer, this video has something for everyone looking to optimize their studio space for better sound.
Other Trinnov videos I recommend you watch
My Unboxing of the Trinno ST2 Pro - • TRINNOV ST2 PRO: Room ...
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I'm sorry for the language, but GREAT fuckin job, Dave! You creating this channel and bringing your humble and honest opinion is worth gold! PLEASE, stay true to yourself and continue on bringing those awesome videos full of information that MOST channels don't expose for one reason or another! By the way, the length of this video and all others is perfectly fine, so don't change anything trying to please the masses!
THANK YOU!
Thank you very much! I really, really appreciate it. I really try to be as honest in my videos as possible and I am here to just share my experiences. I am happy the videos are helping you. Thank you for your support!
***Might need to redo comparison** Hey Dave, I just found something while checking out your settings at 28 minutes in. You have the Sonar-works filter set for zero latency. This setting is best kept for low latency tracking. For absolute precision and mixing you need to select the Linear phase filter. This filter has zero phase issue and has higher latency but is more for mixing. I found there to be a big difference between the 3 settings. The linear absolutely sounds the best. I am curious what your results would be while comparing SW linear mode vs the Trinnov. Also just so you know you can leave Sonarworks studio refrence id on your systemwide so you don't haev to do the plugin bypass deal in the DAW. Thanks for all that you do! I hope this is helpful!!
Thanks for the tip. I 'll check it out
Great video! I use Sound ID externally as a Trinnov alternative. I installed Sound ID on a different Mac computer that is connected to a Lynx Hilo through Thunderbolt. My Summing device is also connected to the Hilo, allowing me to use Sound ID as an external corrector with almost no latency. Previously, I had issues with Sound ID when using it as a plugin within my DAW, but now it works really well. If you're interested, I can explain more about my setup, which may help those who can't afford the Trinnov system. By the way, the TRINNOV NOVA is now available and it's cheaper.
The Nova is not cheaper when you look at the amount of speaker outputs that are included. Yes, its less expensive but you only can have 1 pair of speakers hooked up to it. If you want to have 3 pair like I have on the ST2 Pro or if you have a subwoofer, you need to add the additional outputs to the Nova and at that point, its almost the same price..... over $5K. Also the Nova does NOT include the mic that you need to do the room calibration. Add another $750 on for that.
So 99% of the people that think the Nova is cheaper than the ST2-Pro do not realize that the Nova is YES a less expensive version but with some less features. However, the Nova is smaller, can be used as an audio interface and has a new mobile app component, so those are great things as well.
I Agree! Im in a fully untreated room Running the New Adam A7Vs,with built in Sonarworks after Shooting' my room I can export" the calibration profiles into each monitor, and it is a world of a difference. Adam & Fluid Audio Image II Monitors are the only Monitors on the Market that Host Sonarworks built it so the program can be Closed for Zero Latency.
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for doing this video, it is not easy to find real honest comparisons with these things, nowadays we have plugins and stuff that can do everything but those extra details that give you 5/10 percent of something is when you are on the ball park, and hardware wins by a lot on many aspects.
You're very welcome! I appreciate your support!
Very interesting! I feel the same way with the high mid and high frecuencias on the Sonarworks , they sound smeared. In my studio I only have sonarworks but when turning it off I noticed the stereo, depth and definition of those upper frecuencies sound much better. Thank God that Sound iD version let’s you choose the areas of the frecuency spectrum you want to fix. From 800hz down I let Sonarworks do it’s thing and from 801hz up I let my studio monitors natural sound.
Can’t wait for a more in depth tour of the Trinnov System 🔥
By the way I have a Control 24 console in my studio and I have almost those same low mid frecuency bumps that you have! But having a console in front for me is so worth it! Thank God for room correction programs 😂
That's interesting fact about Sonar-Works. Thanks for watching!
Excellent work. Thank you. Appreciate your transparency about the 5% difference. That's what I usually find to be the case when guys compare 2 similar pieces of software or a software/hardware shootout and scream about a "night and day difference" or a "100 fold difference". Theres a lot of exaggeration and confirmation bias out there. Glad to see you fighting it.
Thank you very much, I appreciate it
Having just had Trinnov, Sonarworks and the ARC studio in my room I completely agree with this 100%... I wanted a bigger difference honestly, but at the same time Trinnov (Nova) was definitely better... I actually found the ARC closer to it and even if i get the trinnov im keeping the ARC until they sort out a low latency mode :)
Thanks for sharing your experience with the Trinnov and room correction. People dont understand the value of the Trinnov until they hear it
Hi, I’m also doing the Trinnov testing in my room and going into the technical rabbit hole finding out how it works. Nice hearing a companion.
You'll love the Trinnov!
@@MixingMusicAnalog yes I do. How do you handle the gain staging? And where in your chain do you place the Trinnov? (before or after the monitor controller?
Awesome vid! I certainly appreciate your honesty and transparency!
Thanks Danny!
Appreciate the straight up review. I’ll keep my set-up of IK Multimedia MTMs originals plus sub, Beyerdynamics 1990s headphones, Sonarworks and some acoustic treatment.
Great. Thanks for watching!
Sonorworks was a non starter for me as I use a console. I never have a "Master Bus" in my DAW since everything hits the console. I'm curious how you are using Sonorworks with a console. I never could figure out how to overcome that with how my rig is set up. I ended up going with the IK MTM Precision monitors with built in ARC. So far I have been happy. I have always been intrigued with the Trinnov and kicked around the idea of going that route at some point but I am digging the IK's so far and have never been happier with my mix translations. You keep mentioning the Trinnov and phase and I remember a video where the Trinnov guys talked about that and that was what set it apart according to them. Digging the video.
Dont you print your mix back into your DAW after going through your console?
You’re being kind to sonarworks! I have both and Trinnov is next level game changer. At least for me. Thanks for the review!
I don't like to use the phrase "game changer" that much. Too many companies out there like to use that and 99.99999% of the time it's mostly hype. However, I understand your point!
Thanks for the review. I really like Trinnov, I used Sonarworks for some years and it was ok but then I tested Trinnov and ended up buying if after some saving, I even sold some other hardware. Best/Mathias
You are not the first person to tell me they actually sold some gear to get a Trinnov. :)
Wow... Thank you! That is a awesome video that I was really looking for. Comparing Sonarworks with Trinnov is a big help (I think for all of us)! Great video!!! Can stop watching it!!!!!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for being here!!
Thanks dave awsome video thank you so much
You're very welcome
Awesome series! Makes me feel better about ID reference 😅
Nothing wrong with ID Reference.
I’m curious to know if you are also using headphones with the Trinnov? If so, how big of a difference between the correction of Sonarworks and the Trinnov? (Hopefully not a stupid question). Thanks so much for doing these videos. It gets very tiring when almost everyone on YT has turned into a professional salesman. I’ve been quite interested in the Trinnov for a while but unsure if it’s worth the expense when I’m often mixing on cans. I have spent a small fortune on room correction as well. Also, I was wondering about maintenance and repair of the units. If it’s a computer…. I’m wondering how much they’ll charge if the hardware goes down? Thanks again!
The Trinnov does not effect or "correct" your headphones. If you only mix in headphones, then go with Sonar-Works
Yes, This video is very helpful. I feel you have truly given a detail honest and descriptive opinion of both devices. What I am getting out it is if you a home studio person not doing real big money making projects it is better to go with the Sonarworks than the big expensive Trinnov and it is better to spend at least $300 on Sonarworks than have nothing at all. Is that correct?
Yes, I said those EXACT words in the video. :)
@@MixingMusicAnalog Yeah, I am just confirming. I guess I am over thinking it. Sorry.
Here's a question: Assuming your room is treated as best as it can be would you put the $6k into upgrading your speakers instead Trinnov?
It depends on what you mean by "best it can be". If the room still has a lot of issues, then adding a better set of monitors isn't going to help you as you still wont be hearing the mix accurately. Before you invest in better monitors, I would measure the room and see where the issues are and fix those first.
I commented on your first vid about the Trinnov unboxing.
The secret sauce in the Trinnov is the time correction and the big one....phase correction.
I've probably already stated that my monitor system is all Genelec. Every time I move anything in the studio I reanalyze the room. First I run the Genelec GLM: that correction info is stored in the speakers themselves. Then I run that signal through the Trinnov. In my opinion, GLM will give a better room correction than SonarWorks. Add in the Trinnov and I am 110% confident that what I hear are the speakers, not the room.
I think that if folks really listen to what you're saying throughout this vid it's: every aspect of the sound is improved with the Trinnov. In your opinion, it's only 10%-15% better. A 10% to 15% improvement in every aspect of the sound is HUGE.
The Trinnov is obviously not aimed at the novice. In truth, I'd be happy if no other mix engineers get a Trinnov, because it gives me that advantage.
I am not associated with Trinnov at all, I'm just super happy with the results.
The most telling evidence that the ST2 Pro is worth the expense is the fact that you're going to keep it. I had no doubt, my friend. . Enjoy!
I agree! The phase & time alignment is what really makes the difference. Yes, expensive, but totally worth it for my studio
Looks like there are lots of gear, objects, shelves, and hard surface reflections in this room. I see very little acoustic treatment around the room. Software correction is not meant to replace solid acoustic treatment; it's only meant to be used for fine-tuning.
You have no idea. There is a massive amount of acoustic treatment in this room, I am fully aware of what room correction is meant to do. I say this in my 2nd Trinnov video.
Very interesting! Thank you. Looking forward to know what's your opinion in a few weeks!
Coming soon!!
Thanks for this content. The comparison is very interesting.
Let me give a suggestion: It would be very nice to see the results of these two solutions from a third analysis like Smaart software. Where you can also see the phase response and other interesting data.
Maybe at one point but not anytime soon.
10% in room resolution is a great amount specially for mastering.
10% is a massive improvement even for mixing
thank you :)
You're very welcome!
Also I think Trinnov corrects the EQ Curve in a more natural way, maybe move the Mix knob in Sonarworks to 70-80% to see if gets a bit closer to the Trinnov...and yes the phase alignment is where the money is in Trinnov
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for this! Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
For $6000 I could perfectly sound proof my room, and have money left over!!! LOL I have a very good sounding room, and have done some great mixes here throughout the years, but I recently upgraded my studio to a hybrid adding the SSL Fusion, Tegeler Creme. I also bought Focal Shape Twin monitors, and added the Sonorworks. I´ve since done mixes with, and without the Sonorworks. I agree that the tracks sound better, and louder when you turn Sonorworks off. Whether Sonoworks has helped my mixes is really unsure, because I´ve done great mixes here before. But, I certainly wouldn´t pay $6000 for a room correction unit. I also have a plugin by Dear Audio (DearVR Monitor) for mixing with headphones, that gives you the rooms of several major studios for reference. It´s pretty good, my mixes sound great on it, and I thought of using it for mixing Surround Sound in the future. All of these devices may help to some degree, especially when using headphones. I do mixing and mastering for a living, and have been quite successful with it. I think the most important thing is to know your monitors, and your room.
Ok, then the Trinnov isn't for you.
I have yet another question about Trinnov (then I will shut up): If I in my studio doing a manually slow sine sweep with a test oscillator inserted inside my DAW, then I of course will easily hear the common dips and buildups in the problematic frequensy areas of my room. But I also hear something else...at some very specific points during the frequency sweep test sine test-signal seems to drift from the center of the stereo field to become almost impossible to locate at all. Sometimes it is like the sound is coming from outside the speakers and sometimes it seems like the sounds splits in two and is panned slightly to each side. This is of coarse caused by phase issues in my room. If now insert Sonarworks (in linear phase mode) after the test-oscillator, then the dips and buildups is gone(it´s doing a pretty good job), but even in linear phase-mode most of the phase-issues are still there. So my question is? Would a Trinnov Nova system be able to fix this? Will I be able to do the same sine-sweep test and at all time hear a razor-sharp focused sound coming from the dead center of the image? I do not ask to be critical or sarcastic, but if your answer to my question is yes, then you have basically sold me a Trinnov Nova...🤣
I really have no idea. you are asking a very specific question to a very specific issue. I say, buy the Nova, try it and if it does not work for you then send it back and keep using what you have. every room has different issues and I can't possibly tell you that the Nova will 100% solve every issues in every room. Here is the link to purchase the Nova from SW. sweetwater.sjv.io/AWVZdK
I always think to myself with stuff like this is…I can hear more reverb, etc. but without it, do consumers hear it? No. While I’d love the phase correction of the hardware…can’t justify it for the actual big picture benefit. Yes, I’d personally enjoy it. I owned Sonarworks and IGM ARC3 and those did some things, but ultimately, you could do a measurement with those and just emulate the EQ curve in Fabfilter and be 99% there.
Anyway, just my opinion.
Btw: after reviewing tons of acoustic environments, it shows the 120ish problem area to almost always be the desk reflections.
If you want to go through that, you can but it's not where near as accurate as something like a Trinnov. thats for sure.
@@MixingMusicAnalog pretty easy really. And I was just comparing mainly with Sonarworks/arc3. Sounds exactly the same to just mimic the EQ curve. That’s all it is. As I said, the phase correction of the T is cool, but just not worth the $ for me personally. I just throw the EQ into AudioHiJack on Mac and it takes care of the correction system wide. Not needed in daw only. I also have a correction profile for my headphones. I’m not trying to diss the T. Just saying I think a lot of these software based correction tools are WAY overpriced for what they are. Good content. Been a subscriber since the beginning.
this was a great video. thank you
You are so welcome!
Hi Dave, excenlent work on the comparison between SonarWorks and the Trinnov. I hear you talking about refference tracks all the time and i'm wondering for quite some time now about what everybody means when talking about refferecne tracks. 1) where or how do you get them? 2) in what format should it be? mp3? wav? ogg? 16 bit? 24bit? 32bit? 44.100? 48.000? Could you do a video about that or have you already and i looked over it? For my former DJ setup i have a nice collection of iTunes .m4a files, can they be used as refference tracks? Please could you give more info on that subject, it would help me a lot. Thanks a lot beforehand. I'm gonna watch the Trinnov series for sure. Kind regards.
I usually purchase high rez files off Apple music at 48k and that's good enough for me.
@@MixingMusicAnalog Thank you, much appreciated
Thanks alot for this!!! 🙌🏽
You bet!
luckily you can upload Sonarworks measurement to Adam Audio speakers, skipping all DAW shenanigans and latency all together, still just for 300 bucks. Great review and thank you for it. Just 5 to 15% for 5700$ difference doesn't make much sense for bedroom producers.
Agreed. If you are on a budget then Trinnov is not for you
Thanks for this review. Like you said, I’ve never seen this comparison.
I’ve used both the Sonarworks correction and The IKmultimedia ARC 3 correction. I think ARC is VASTLY BETTER than Sonarworks. I don’t suppose you would compare to ARC?
Maybe at one point.
Nice video! I use Sonarworks, and if you use liear phaze the bottom end are tighter than mixed mode. How much Trinnov have latency If corrected group delay?
I dont understand the question, sorry.
Thank you 🙏🏼
You’re welcome 😊
Hello, like everyone else with sonarwork I have a flat visual response. On the other hand, by measuring the real response obtained with the sonarwork correction measured in REW, the result is totally different, and not flat at all. I'm waiting for my Trinnov Nova, too impatient.
I am getting a Nova in here soon to review. I am sure you will love yours!
@@MixingMusicAnalog for sure , I think too
Interesting! Do you know if there is a noticeable difference between the Reference 4 and the new version. Ive heard its more cpu hungry and about some install problems and im so pleased with how smooth the V4 is working
Ps I was thinking that if one bought the 6.000 alternative one will NOT wanna compare with the the other version ;) Same thing if you got sent t Trinnov, they will not want you to make the comparison.
I have not used the new version so I have no idea.
@@MixingMusicAnalog oh ok, thanks. I think ill wait. Apparently there is nothing fundamentally different, not sonically at least. just some new features i dont have need for.
Suggest you try the Natural Phase setting on Sound Reference ID. WOn't change the phase thing though.
Thanks for the tip!
Try them with a speaker upgrade 😉
In business we put a lot of money into small increases because they make a big difference over time... you're never getting back 100 times more, but that's not what you're paying for... small increases cost a lot of money in production... including software and research
Nope, I love my Focals. No plans to switch them out
Was this running with the Trinnov converter to analog or just a digital pass thru?
Analog
Very interesting.
Glad you think so!
Thanks for your insight. Really interesting stuff.
My pleasure!
i wonder how actually performes in a passive set up for the speaker
It should work the same way.
Here is another one that’s it’s from mini DSP .
MiniDSP SHD DAC
It will be great if you test it against the trinnov
Maybe at one point
I have only one really big issue with Trinnov and that issue is called latency. If you're going to only use your room for mixing, then Trinnov is straight down fantastic but for tracking...well I thing I will be in pretty big trouble. Yesterday I got an offering from a Norwegian retailer on the new Trinnov Nova (+ the measuring mic and LA-remote), and the retailer leaved a note from the manufacture (Trinnov): According to Trinnov the latency for the unit is currently at 30ms (30ms!!!) and even if you bypass the unit there is currently no way to have a direct monitoring path through the unit. well, THAT is a absolute showstopper for me. I need to add that Trinnov said that the latency-issue is their top priority and they are working hard with a future update to meet these issues. But at the moment....Eh, no thanks. It´s sad because I start to really hate Sonarworks, just incredibly unstable after the last update, actually to the point that I cannot longer rely on it....and the clock is ticking and the clients are waiting.
Interesting. Well, for mixing the latency is not an issue and I dont even notice it. I'll have to try recording a few things to see if I get the same issue.
Exactly what I’m wondering about the Nova.
I thought you mix through Sonarworks. Then turn it off when you mixdown so it doesn’t impart any eq to the original signal.
That is correct
Don't forget presonus studio one has a feature for listening tracks, when turned on its next to the master track and you don't need to disable your analyzer/room correction plugins during export when you use them on the listening track.
The lack of depth is what turns me off of Sonarworks. It's ok for eq decisions but for actually listening to music, I feel it's too dull and 2-D.
Interesting, thanks for watching!
$6000 is still to much for what it does. I could see like $2000. Cool little device though.
In your opinion, which is cool. For me, when you have as much money invested as I do and this saves me time.....it pays for itself in 6 months.
Audio examples next video🙏
Can't be done with these sorts of videos. I explained that in the video
@@MixingMusicAnalog You could try and XY pair of condensers at the mix position, but I agree it's likely that it won't convey the experience.
Compare Sonarworks with Dirac
No need for me. The Trinnov is staying! :)
👍
Thank you for watching!
Have you seen this video on the ST2 with Marc Daniel Nelson? There are other tweeks I learned from him. He is the reason I got mine: ruclips.net/video/0Xy_2nxFsHY/видео.html
Yes I have and I will have ore videos in the future showing the same sort of thing and how I tweaked the system
@@MixingMusicAnalog great! I appreciate your hard work and. I look forward to seeing them. Thanks!
BMW vs Opel😅😅😅
Kind of...lol
Ohh wow, thanks for sharing interesting how the real deal has more information than artificial intelligence 🫵👌
Glad you enjoyed it