I admittedly skimmed through the video (will give it a proper watch later) but overheal sometimes lets players survive a melee crit, or demoknight shield bash combo. So the effective lack of uber is only one thing to worry about when dealing with a good Demoknight. If your own Demo is waddling around with 175 HP instead of around 230 then he's gonna die to a -195 swing every time. He might have the confidence to push up thanks to a vacc bubble, but suddenly die out of nowhere thanks to my charge.
@@shawwfia8650I'm in too deep. I'm at that "topscore every fresh 2fort game you join" phase, straight up purposely ruining matches with the Vaccinator and my MEAN crossbow shots.
when you mentioned in the faith chapter that other teammates can play scared when you use vacc if they dont know how you play yet, i realised that it's an actual phenomenon that other players experience! then your teammates learn to play around you if you prove you're up to the task of keeping up the heals and making them LIVE WHEN THEY SHOULDNT. gotta say when that happens it's the best feeling ever
Shoutouts to the practical advice he gave on how to count uber. I always hear comp players stress the importance of counting uber but never go into detail on how to do so, so thanks.
Vaccinator is like the Gunslinger It let's the normally passive class be more aggressive and possess more survivability in exchange for weaker ubers/sentries
I use it because I struggle to stay alive, being asian doesnt help my case because every server is guaranteed to have a try-hard scout. Always love to see them schadenfreude and trashtalk me when they eventually manage to kill me. Not even the gunslinger gets such reactions out of the scout mains.
weaker uber to krits but it can out tank a ubered heavy if your heavy is being vacced and crossbow healed by you, seriously it's ubers tend to last longer when you're smart enough to draw out the time between popping and burst healing and the enemy medic ends up either swapping class or going vacci as well
@@ShakerSilver Honestly, I'd equate the vacc to sniper than the gunslinger like op said, I mean it's ass if the medic has no idea how to use it but if they're skilled? It's hell.
The first time I used the Vaccinator I died so many times for just looking at my keyboard instead of the screen because I was trying to switch protection types, it is quite literally overstimulation
Another synergy with heavy is the chocolate; it partly offsets the fact that you can't effectively overheal them, but also lets the crossbow heal potentially more
You'd be surprised how often people don't read weapon descriptions. The fact that it's white text also obscures the weapon text slightly since a similar/the same font is used for flavor text.
Here's a fun fact. The Wrangler Shield triples the effective health of a Sentry, but reduces healing by 67%, which cancels out the healing benefit from the Damage reduction, and it's still considered VERY strong. The Vac Shield QUADRUPLES the effective health of a PLAYER, AND the Player still receives FULL HEALING, effectively increases the healing received by 4 TIMES, 4x. Not only that, but as a player they can receive healing from multiple sources, say, medkits, or Scout's Mad Milk, or the Half-Zato. And don't forget, you still build Uber, WHILEST already using an Uber, so it's already low Uber Downtime is even lower than the other Mediguns. Like, if the other Mediguns were to have that, it would shave off 8 second of charging uber in the best case scenario, assuming you get the full 8 second Uber. Course, it's balanced by Damage Typing and having to press the R key a few times before Rightclicking and, you know, dying before you even know you died; But, as someone that plays both Engi and Medic heavily, I find it kind of funny and strange how the Wrangler get's ragged on for being too powerful yet the Vac, with an ability that's arguably even stronger than the Wrangler, somehow get's a pass because it takes skill to use??? Hello? Isn't this the same game with the Sniper from Team Fortress 2, who's balancing factor comes down to how much skill the Sniper has(and what map is being played), yet people also rag on Sniper, with one particular note being how balancing around balancing around player skill is dumb, that a Class, a Character is fine and balanced being overpowered because only really good players can be overpowered. Like, what's this triple standard for the Vac here? It's been in the game for over a decade, receiving relatively minor changes, and only NOW are people realizing how strong it is? It's like a repeated of CS scoped rifles event. It's all just very humorous to me, that 75% damage resist with no real downsides is a bit lowkey strong, like, no shit Sherlock is it strong. If you nerf it, say, by making the target receive less healing when Ubered, or the Self-Bubble is now weaker, or you can't build Uber when a Bubble is active, it'll probably be fine. Still very strong, and SHOULD be very strong for the amount of effort put into it, but the Vac should hopefully not have AS stacked of a hand as it used to. Because No invincibility and slower Overheal isn't much of a downside when you can have 4x HP and healing, and everyone that you're healing shouldn't have full HP in the first place due to needing to tank half a teams worth of damage with their face. tl:dr Vac is very strong, borderline, yet no one really talks about or even noticed it until recently, which I find funny.
Its mostly due to the spread of medic Players and sniper/engie players. Plus you notice something more when you directly die to it as opposed to, the vacc only being a (very strong) supporting pillar
Honestly, I think that the damage type system should be abandoned entirely. Most classes only have one, and I think that just having one uber that does a general, but smaller resistance is the right way to go. Then you could make a mini crit uber, and maybe a speed boosting uber to give it some extra utility that isn't screwing over specific classes with specific ubers. Edit: maybe make the ubers last longer but take longer to charge to give them a similar uptime, but make them slightly less disposable because comboing ubers is something I would like to encourage, but seems kind of strong with the current build rate
The vacc is complained about a lot, but not as much as the wrangler or sniper because a) it's less common than those two and b) it's less overpowered than the wrangler. Medic gives up stock ubercharge and overheal to use the vaccinator, while engie gives up the stock pistol (basically nothing in comparison).
The only counter being "focus fire with your team" goes beyond making it "broken in pubs", it's frankly the most antithetical thing to TF2's design. The game's designed around not *forcing* teamwork explicitly, but making teamwork a natural product of individually optimizing your class' gameplay loop. Yet when the only counter to a weapon is relying on a damage type you don't have, because the "disposable" uber made the enemy 4x resistant to your damage type (may as well be a stock uber), then you've betrayed the whole point of TF2.
Yeah. Valve understood from the get-go that while "Team Fortress" is the name of franchise, most players are fundamentally selfish in how they play and designed and balanced the game around that fact. The Vaccinator requires above-average coordination to take down and in as a chaotic environment as casual or even allegedly more skilled community servers, the best thing you're hoping for is for someone else with a different damage type joining in on spamming the Vacc Combo. I think what the most frustrating part of playing against a Vacc Medic is that the weapon removes basically all of individual skill and player agency. There's not very many ways an individual class of varying skill levels can combat -- or assist in combating -- the Medic and patient. It's just a DPS race with whichever side without the Vaccinator automatically put on the losing end.
god, this video reminds me of 2016-18 tf2, when people did not know how strong the vaccinator is, coincidentally back when i was a medic main and before quitting for good. this video simply cannot state how strong the vaccinator is, there are not enough words to explain how satisfying uber-sawing a demo that hit you with a crit pipes trully is, specially after being an engineer player for the entirety of 2015. also the troldier terror is only equated to a demo's terrorist tactics
Fellow Vacc main here, and I just want to throw my hat in the talk. I remember using it just before or around the bots, and I just stumbled upon it. I quickly fell in love with it due to the added interactivity for the medic (even with not being good with it at first). Here's some thoughts and views I've developed: 1. The Vacc doesn't really have any hard counter, just soft counters. For example, turtling up doesn't win against the Vac, the timer wins against the Vacc. Have only a couple of people turtling, and the Vacc will wrecking ball through. I don't accept melee and focus fire as counters because congrats, you came to the conclusion water is wet. ANY medigun will die to crit melee or focus fire. It only changes when you're the one getting overhealed or popping an Uber (and not even in the case of kritz). Phlog and sniper are the best counters, and they're still more of slight edges, maybe even a tie. Cause yes, a phlog burst and sniper burst can make the Vacc drop faster than a kunai spy. But on the flip side, a phlog Pyro may now have his phlog crits go from a team wipe to only a few teammates die. A sniper that's completely no lifing can easily get outsniped by a sniper that's not even that good. I remember an Upward game I was on, the 2 enemy snipers were just holding down my team due to their nigh-unending headshots. Someone got on a mic, saying they would try to countersnipe, I hugged and bubbled him whole game, enemy sniper would constantly quickscope or headshot him, he would live, body shot him back, our team and co-medic go rolling over their team. 2. I find my life and especially my teammates life, a lot more disposable. Don't get me wrong, I don't want my team dying and especially not me. But I would be lying if I said that I feel bad on dying with ANY percent of ubercharge on me. Why? Cause I know that unless they can just steamroll or win, I'll be back and putting them in the same situation in about 20 seconds. Granted, I take a massive amounts of mental damage on how many spies get the achievement of Dr. NOOOOOOO on me. 3. The Vacc is (mostly) op because it wins a bunch of skirmishes... which surprise surprise, TF2 is filled with those. It's not even like you trade up Uber contests, you instead, just like the Vacc always does, mitigate the damage and hopefully outlast theirs (you generally will, if playing properly.) With all that being said, you should still have know how on how to use the stock medi-gun since it's ALWAYS going to work. It will also take out a true turtle defensive spot since the Vacc can't take on the entire team. The very last thing, I think the Vacc is a horrible medi-gun. Not cause it's bad (if you somehow came to that conclusion), but it's from the fact that it completely changes how the game is played. Not just for the medic and patient but for the enemy medic, enemy team, AND YOUR TEAM. It's the only medi-gun you have you hope your teammates know what they're doing and competent enough. When people get Ubered, they almost always rush. Not with the Vacc cause 20 dps scawy. It now makes shoot the medic even harder, but it feels like you're getting punished for it. Just a terrible game feeling weapon for everyone that's not the medic and patient who knows what's up.
I agree with everything except the last statement about how it relies too heavily on teammates knowing how to play the game. That just kind of feels like another "wow, water is wet" situation. Every medigun is like that to some extent. Hell, it's not even the worst case on the vaccinator, the kritz has that problem way worse. But yeah I think that the vaccinator in its current state is entirely unbalanced and unfun to play against due to it strong arming people into focus firing you to even have a chance at killing you. Edit: I do think that the vaccinators concept has a lot of potential but the damage types system is inherently flawed and should be replaced with something else
In my honest opinion. The vaccinator seems to be quite an amazing device. Some might say it absolutely destroys pubs but that’s only doable if your not doing what was originally intended with the medic, and that’s focusing on them. The vaccinator when I use it, wether it be with inexperienced players or with highly skilled, they always eventually figure out “HEY! Turns out running around rampant looking for 1v1s in a team based game isn’t what your supposed to do!” It might be a terrible thing to combat with one person, but eventually it teaches players how to overcome what is some of the worst possible things in casual. Planning and teamwork. I get most people don’t have microphones or a way to communicate but at least you can still learn to make sure you have each others back and push with eachother and not apart.
If you ever make something like this for the melee, please don’t forget the amputator lets you get a max 9+ regen when holding it long enough which can out heal afterburn when running away, The stats dont say it and people generally forget it even does that lol, Which makes it seem much more like its just aoe rather than genuinely saving you by a hair more than once
@@Theory-Y definitely, but it does suit some less aggressive or more safe play styles and or extra escapability, Which lots of people don’t really know and again really only think it does AOE
So fun fact about the mantreads, The 75% reduction from air blast does not apply when airborne. Therefore staying around your pyro If you see a market gardener with mantreads is your best bet.
Funny story I found out how good this weapon was pre rework when i vaccinated a heavy. He only took like 11 headshot damage from a sniper. Then i ubered him and he took a fully charged machina shot to the face only about 28 damage or 17 idr too too well. He also had the fists of steel. Back then it was broken. It was passive crit resistance no uber plus you would regen a bit of health based on damage absorbed plus the ubers didnt work. You could vaccinate 4x bullet if you spammed the ubers before they refilled. Now it is more balanced. I think medics and community goes through as a whole the stages. 1st is stock uber oooo this is THE medigun. You pop your first invulnerable and see the enemy team get destroyed. But you realize you die too fast to pop and you take too long to charge when enemy medic also can charge too. 2nd unlock ooo the blutsaguer the ubersaw and KRTIZKREIG. It charges faster AND crits Oooo nice 😮. Then you try it on offense and realize you and your pocket can still take damage. But then you try on DEFENSE and watch a brass beast heavy an air strike soldier or widowmaker engy just OBLITERATE the enemy team and enemy medic rages that he was 99.99999999999999999999999 1/2 episode 2 % of ubeecharge left lol. 😂 3rd is you get the drop for a quick fix. Ooo and the crusader's crossbow the amputator and the solem vow....and the vita saw but no one remembers it. Now you see that it wont just be you and your pocket but now you can keep everyone alive in top more or less health and just watch as you slowly win the battle of attrition. That first sticky jump or rocket jump with your pocket straight into the enemy's area without pushback and being healed more than they can dish out damage. But you still feel the urge to go back to kritz and old reliable stock now that you learned how to stay alive and carry an uber saw with you. 4th is Vaccinator. Popping your first heavy avoiding him dying within 2 seconds of sentry fire fire from another heavy a sniper quickscope and a scout and actually keep pushing forward. NOW WERE COOKIN. also ruining a phlog critted pyro or kritz medic pair. You by now also learned about stuff like how 60% of ranged attacks are hitscan bullet and about 25% explosives or projectile with 5% fire or afterburn. So keep it in bullet and occasional rocket spam with the rare pyro ambush every now and then. Also how timing it right you can pocket heal pop an uber and either crossbow heal or ubersaw the incoming enemies then switch back and pop another uber. Outlasting p much all other ubers if you time everything right. Last stage is realizing all ubers have their place. Kritz on defense / area denial suppressing fire. Quick fix for helping if you have a second medic or no medic and too much damage from the enemy. Stock for old reliable. And vaccinator for actual higher level gameplay than just standing back and watching your allies do all the work while you stick close to snipers and engineers.
Sometimes the Vaccinator DOES use the regular Medigun backpack for some reason, in addition to it's unique backpack. As a diehard Amputator user, I have seen it happen countless times, but I have no idea what exactly happens or how to replicate it.
I really like the concept of medic having a medigun that specializes in offensive play with high uptime and weaker ubers, but I don't really like the "damage type resistance" concept because the vast majority of classes only shoot bullets. I would rather have completely different effects for the ubers. Like maybe combine the concepts of soldiers banners and make it into a medigun. Maybe have one uber that negates crits and gives a small damage resistance, one uber that gives a small damage bonus or mini crits, and another uber that does something like a speed boost or smth. This way, you are forced to use ubers more tactically and make the ubers overall weaker, being more nuanced and much more fun for both sides. This would also give the vaccinator a couple extra niches, just to make up for the ubers being worse, like using a speed uber on your scout to rollout really fast or smth.
I've personally only used vacc my entire time playing TF2 and it truly is a beast at times, I can't tell you how many times it has stopped a regular uber push from happening in my games with it plus it feels more intuitive to use because ubers aren't as valuable as stock so you can pop uber whenever you need but, it's just a shame that not a lot of people like you make videos about it, it's a highly capable medigun that is stigmatized due to that fact.
Admittedly, on Uncletopia HK, the vaccinator is often stifled from the fact that there's always a good spread of damage types attacking at any one time, so it becomes nearly impossible to maintain the damage resistance unless you get lucky.
A breath of fresh air huh? Good stuff Also I HAVE to be "that" guy Cleaver isn't melee, it's "generic", if it was melee damage it'd do 100 to steel heavies Flare Guns direct hits are actually considered bullet damage for some reason, so a decent combo pyro can also bubble check you for 90 if you don't preemptively pop one That being said scorch shot can be a soft counter to vac since it has all 3 damage types Bullet on impact Blast on explosion Fire on afterburn
I know this video is about the vaccinator but all it’s done 10 minutes in is convince me I should be using the holiday punch more. The heavy cancelled like 5 Ubers by himself with it
@@artifactUit's not a matter of skill issue at that point It's just not fun to fight at all, whether you don't kill or kill the medic Do you like fighting against a constantly overhealed Sniper?
The vaccinator is like a good defense in a fighting game, which is also the reason why so many people hate it. Blocking bullets is like blocking lows, fast attacks you cant react to, blocking explosives is like blocking overheads, generally reactable attacks that the opponent will generally throw out sparingly, and blocking fire is like blocking the rare throw the opponent might hit you with to break your defense. People get annoyed in a fighting game when all their offense gets parried and punished, bad players might even call it cheap or "block spamming". All of this really reminds me of how the Vaccinator is often considered to be medics best Medigun when really this couldnt be further from the truth, it's arguebly not even good if you compare it to stock or kritz. But its certainly the most fun and engaging way to play medic, it's just not viable to do so if I'm the only Medic on my team, the Overhealrate is too pathetic for that.
I made a comment previously on not using the vaccinator out of respect, and that secion about duoing reminded me why I think this. I once duo'd with my bro who is somewhat of a novice at TF2, with him on Heavy and me on vaccinator Med. Pub stomping is the only words I have for what happened.
i feel like the vaccinator falls into the same situation as sniper; it's ultimately balanced with relatively hindering downsides, requiring heavy skill and player input. however, those downsides aren't as immediately apparent to the victims of vaccinator/sniper, thus leading to frustration and a feeling of helplessness against them. they're unfun to fight against from a microscopic view, but from the macroscopic view both sniper and the vaccinator's effectiveness are hindered by their downsides.
9:36 "If you're routinely getting to 100%, just use stock and have an exponentially larger impact" ...So about that It's easier to get to 100% because I only use 25% per charge to win a fight, and even then it's faster. Yeah my playstyle is inferior, but it's not something that can work with Stock as often
As much as I hate having to fight against a Vacc medic combo like everyone else especially in UncleTopia, I can't really blame medics for using it. Most of the time it's better at keeping you alive than your own team, not to mention that snipers and scouts are an ass to deal with, so sometimes when I can't find a good enough pocket to uber, the vacc is gonna be the "Fuck you" to all those scout, demo and sniper mains.
I am an ex pyro main, i'm a "brain dead" person, i can't swap between damage resistances, i can't use this thing... i think i'll be fine with my beutiful quick fix
I just wanna say I love your videos so much man! These in depth guides are the best, and especially the mindset that I learned from your videos has improved me so much. Thank you and please never stop
I’ve been watching TF2 videos since I started playing in 2011 and this is one of the few channels where I learn new weapon information each video. Everything you say is backed up by testing and isn’t just the wiki recapped.
Honestly my favorite use case of the Vaccinator is the "The enemy team has exactly one good player" scenario. Also i would make the claim that Spy really is a vaccinator counter. While yes, a backstab will kill ANY medic at any time unless it's a stock medic currently using uber, the more aggressive playstyle and requirement for the medic to pay more attention to what the enemy team is using will make a medic more blind to spies, as they lack the luxury of looking around as often and will be much more distracted on average. But i do have to give a shootout to the Vaccinator Effect and it's uncanny ability to make people think going demoknight and charging into a heavy is a good idea.
As a medic main, the rush of earning the player's trust is a feeling of euphoria. I usually use Uber or Vaccinator. Now, I'm seeing the Vaccinator is more powerful once your team knows you got their back with resistance. Also, the sweet taste of salt from the enemies unable to counter resistance bubbles effectively. In the end, *Skill Issue*
W video, I was completly lost during certain points of the video, but this has been a great learning experience. I had know idea this weapon was so complex.
The brass beast heavy should use the dalokos bar. That extra 50 hp can help compensate for less over heal and will activate the brass beasts dmg resist earlier. (also that 50hp is effectively an extra 200hp with the right bubble).
I've played a fair bit of vac med. The trolldier Luca has kicked my butt. Bro has over 20k kills on his spoon. Pray you don't meet him on a server. Glad to see he got you too and I'm not alone 😂.
![[TF2] In Defense of the Loch-N-Load](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GvGIamFcX2I/mqdefault.jpg)
Another theory y video where he doesn't teach us how to use the bonesaw... Why am I even still subscribed?
can theory y sign my strange bonesaw?
Just scream BONSO and random crit everyone
So true!
Here’s the best lesson:
*C R I T*
Cuz we need the Vita-Saw! (Help me)
Theory-Y: "Would you jump off a cli-"
The pocket: "Yes. Yes I would."
i tabbed back in after doing a small chore and came back to that scene and started laughing hysterically
Timestamp?
@@sashaisweird 26:51
@@Tommy-mk9bo thx :D
57:47 "I'm only gonna do this once, so pay attention"
Me with the ability to double tap the left side of my screen:
You control time itself 😮
Bites Za Dusto
What spring break does to a mf
Finally, a guide on how to use the most balanced and fun to fight against medigun. My friends are gonna love fighting the new me, thanks theory-y!
The sarcasm is leaking too much
I just find it funny seeing your heavy leave a fight with like 17 giant syringes in his back.
I admittedly skimmed through the video (will give it a proper watch later) but overheal sometimes lets players survive a melee crit, or demoknight shield bash combo. So the effective lack of uber is only one thing to worry about when dealing with a good Demoknight. If your own Demo is waddling around with 175 HP instead of around 230 then he's gonna die to a -195 swing every time. He might have the confidence to push up thanks to a vacc bubble, but suddenly die out of nowhere thanks to my charge.
This brings up the 2nd medic who should deliver and spread overheal with stock, kritz or quick-fix to nullify your inability to buff teammates, yeah?
@@sentientlvl.5mortar886 Yeah it works best with a second med to negate that weakness
ok my healing target can 0.01% of times die to rarely played demoknight, crazy
It's just one of many examples in practice
“Oh hey another med video why haven’t I watched this yet? Oh”
Too short?
@@Theory-YIt is because it is about the most annoying to fight medigun, the vaccinator.
@Theory-Y hey guess wut i was playing mvm and i got my first medic gun it was vac i was happy also am new
@@Theory-Y
Exams? Over
Ice cream? In hand
Theory-y video? 1 hour long
Hell? Yeah
Hotel?
@@Saxxy_MannTrivago
@@Tomaku-San Team?
@@demoman5864 Fortress 2
"The most fun you can have online" - PC Gamer
is now free.
FREEEDOOOOM!!!
@@demoman5864Fortress
Thank you Theory for turning me into a Medic main. Never been more a̶n̶g̶r̶y̶ happy playing this game.
That's exactly what happened to me. It's gotten to the point that I'm bad at every other class now.
@@Thereal67Psame here lol
@@shawwfia8650I'm in too deep. I'm at that "topscore every fresh 2fort game you join" phase, straight up purposely ruining matches with the Vaccinator and my MEAN crossbow shots.
@@Thereal67P yes. I cant aim with anything but the crossbow and the huntsman anymore lmfao
@@shawwfia8650 It be like that.
when you mentioned in the faith chapter that other teammates can play scared when you use vacc if they dont know how you play yet, i realised that it's an actual phenomenon that other players experience! then your teammates learn to play around you if you prove you're up to the task of keeping up the heals and making them LIVE WHEN THEY SHOULDNT. gotta say when that happens it's the best feeling ever
Shoutouts to the practical advice he gave on how to count uber. I always hear comp players stress the importance of counting uber but never go into detail on how to do so, so thanks.
Vaccinator is like the Gunslinger
It let's the normally passive class be more aggressive and possess more survivability in exchange for weaker ubers/sentries
I use it because I struggle to stay alive, being asian doesnt help my case because every server is guaranteed to have a try-hard scout.
Always love to see them schadenfreude and trashtalk me when they eventually manage to kill me. Not even the gunslinger gets such reactions out of the scout mains.
And both are annoying as hell to fight
weaker uber to krits but it can out tank a ubered heavy if your heavy is being vacced and crossbow healed by you, seriously it's ubers tend to last longer when you're smart enough to draw out the time between popping and burst healing and the enemy medic ends up either swapping class or going vacci as well
To 7/9 classes, Vaccinator may as well be stock uber. To say it's "weaker" is to be woefully disingenous.
@@ShakerSilver Honestly, I'd equate the vacc to sniper than the gunslinger like op said, I mean it's ass if the medic has no idea how to use it but if they're skilled? It's hell.
This is the culmination. We made it boys and girls. We finally did it.
29:25
Oh god I remember hitting that shot. I was mad about it not killing you for the rest of the round
That’s crazy LMAO
We've been waiting for it for so long... After nine years in development, hopefully it would have been worth the wait.
The play by play explanation in slow mo from 01:05:47 to 01:07:08 really helped
The first time I used the Vaccinator I died so many times for just looking at my keyboard instead of the screen because I was trying to switch protection types, it is quite literally overstimulation
gotta love a flowchart so big that the lines almost fade out when watching the video at 720
step 1: remove all feelings of remorse and human empathy
It's fitting. A lot of the advice to play medic well does ask you to play in character as the medic himself.
i mean he did specifically say to make a no fun list
One bubble on the Medic is worth 600 points of damage to that selected damage type. On a overhealed Heavy that 75% resistance becomes 1800 health..
You just need focus fire, come on it's not so difficult
Looks like a job for the French
@@techwizsmith7963 and black Scottish cyclop using swords
@@davidpettigians you are saying this to tf2 players
@@_AnCub_ ik, It was a joke lads
1 hour + of juicy Theory content, we love to see it 😎
Another synergy with heavy is the chocolate; it partly offsets the fact that you can't effectively overheal them, but also lets the crossbow heal potentially more
the default description of the vaccinator explains the ubers
You'd be surprised how often people don't read weapon descriptions. The fact that it's white text also obscures the weapon text slightly since a similar/the same font is used for flavor text.
we love to see the new medic 101!!
been waiting to see this for a while now.
Here's a fun fact. The Wrangler Shield triples the effective health of a Sentry, but reduces healing by 67%, which cancels out the healing benefit from the Damage reduction, and it's still considered VERY strong.
The Vac Shield QUADRUPLES the effective health of a PLAYER, AND the Player still receives FULL HEALING, effectively increases the healing received by 4 TIMES, 4x. Not only that, but as a player they can receive healing from multiple sources, say, medkits, or Scout's Mad Milk, or the Half-Zato. And don't forget, you still build Uber, WHILEST already using an Uber, so it's already low Uber Downtime is even lower than the other Mediguns. Like, if the other Mediguns were to have that, it would shave off 8 second of charging uber in the best case scenario, assuming you get the full 8 second Uber.
Course, it's balanced by Damage Typing and having to press the R key a few times before Rightclicking and, you know, dying before you even know you died; But, as someone that plays both Engi and Medic heavily, I find it kind of funny and strange how the Wrangler get's ragged on for being too powerful yet the Vac, with an ability that's arguably even stronger than the Wrangler, somehow get's a pass because it takes skill to use??? Hello? Isn't this the same game with the Sniper from Team Fortress 2, who's balancing factor comes down to how much skill the Sniper has(and what map is being played), yet people also rag on Sniper, with one particular note being how balancing around balancing around player skill is dumb, that a Class, a Character is fine and balanced being overpowered because only really good players can be overpowered. Like, what's this triple standard for the Vac here? It's been in the game for over a decade, receiving relatively minor changes, and only NOW are people realizing how strong it is? It's like a repeated of CS scoped rifles event.
It's all just very humorous to me, that 75% damage resist with no real downsides is a bit lowkey strong, like, no shit Sherlock is it strong. If you nerf it, say, by making the target receive less healing when Ubered, or the Self-Bubble is now weaker, or you can't build Uber when a Bubble is active, it'll probably be fine. Still very strong, and SHOULD be very strong for the amount of effort put into it, but the Vac should hopefully not have AS stacked of a hand as it used to. Because No invincibility and slower Overheal isn't much of a downside when you can have 4x HP and healing, and everyone that you're healing shouldn't have full HP in the first place due to needing to tank half a teams worth of damage with their face.
tl:dr Vac is very strong, borderline, yet no one really talks about or even noticed it until recently, which I find funny.
I've always heard people talk shit about the Vax so I'm not sure what you mean. Right up there with the wrangler, diamondback, and Phlog
Its mostly due to the spread of medic Players and sniper/engie players. Plus you notice something more when you directly die to it as opposed to, the vacc only being a (very strong) supporting pillar
Honestly, I think that the damage type system should be abandoned entirely. Most classes only have one, and I think that just having one uber that does a general, but smaller resistance is the right way to go. Then you could make a mini crit uber, and maybe a speed boosting uber to give it some extra utility that isn't screwing over specific classes with specific ubers.
Edit: maybe make the ubers last longer but take longer to charge to give them a similar uptime, but make them slightly less disposable because comboing ubers is something I would like to encourage, but seems kind of strong with the current build rate
The vacc is complained about a lot, but not as much as the wrangler or sniper because a) it's less common than those two and b) it's less overpowered than the wrangler. Medic gives up stock ubercharge and overheal to use the vaccinator, while engie gives up the stock pistol (basically nothing in comparison).
I love the subliminal messaging by putting in many clips where a heavy gives you a sandvich.
22:00 Lazy Purple moment
it's been 4 months... but we're glad to have you back :)
The only counter being "focus fire with your team" goes beyond making it "broken in pubs", it's frankly the most antithetical thing to TF2's design. The game's designed around not *forcing* teamwork explicitly, but making teamwork a natural product of individually optimizing your class' gameplay loop. Yet when the only counter to a weapon is relying on a damage type you don't have, because the "disposable" uber made the enemy 4x resistant to your damage type (may as well be a stock uber), then you've betrayed the whole point of TF2.
Yeah. Valve understood from the get-go that while "Team Fortress" is the name of franchise, most players are fundamentally selfish in how they play and designed and balanced the game around that fact. The Vaccinator requires above-average coordination to take down and in as a chaotic environment as casual or even allegedly more skilled community servers, the best thing you're hoping for is for someone else with a different damage type joining in on spamming the Vacc Combo.
I think what the most frustrating part of playing against a Vacc Medic is that the weapon removes basically all of individual skill and player agency. There's not very many ways an individual class of varying skill levels can combat -- or assist in combating -- the Medic and patient. It's just a DPS race with whichever side without the Vaccinator automatically put on the losing end.
Tf2 players will not coperate and shoot two guys
oh my god, that battalion buff + bullet res soldier must have been getting healed by the damage taken with all those buffs
I really despise this weapon. The "fuck you, countered" medigun.
Same. That's why you ALWAYS focus these medics as a Sniper/Demoknight/Spy. Make 'em miserable.
god, this video reminds me of 2016-18 tf2, when people did not know how strong the vaccinator is, coincidentally back when i was a medic main and before quitting for good.
this video simply cannot state how strong the vaccinator is, there are not enough words to explain how satisfying uber-sawing a demo that hit you with a crit pipes trully is, specially after being an engineer player for the entirety of 2015.
also the troldier terror is only equated to a demo's terrorist tactics
It's wild, I was just hoping for a vaccinator guide since I'm trying to pick it up. Lucky me :)
Fellow Vacc main here, and I just want to throw my hat in the talk. I remember using it just before or around the bots, and I just stumbled upon it. I quickly fell in love with it due to the added interactivity for the medic (even with not being good with it at first). Here's some thoughts and views I've developed:
1. The Vacc doesn't really have any hard counter, just soft counters. For example, turtling up doesn't win against the Vac, the timer wins against the Vacc. Have only a couple of people turtling, and the Vacc will wrecking ball through.
I don't accept melee and focus fire as counters because congrats, you came to the conclusion water is wet. ANY medigun will die to crit melee or focus fire. It only changes when you're the one getting overhealed or popping an Uber (and not even in the case of kritz).
Phlog and sniper are the best counters, and they're still more of slight edges, maybe even a tie. Cause yes, a phlog burst and sniper burst can make the Vacc drop faster than a kunai spy. But on the flip side, a phlog Pyro may now have his phlog crits go from a team wipe to only a few teammates die. A sniper that's completely no lifing can easily get outsniped by a sniper that's not even that good. I remember an Upward game I was on, the 2 enemy snipers were just holding down my team due to their nigh-unending headshots. Someone got on a mic, saying they would try to countersnipe, I hugged and bubbled him whole game, enemy sniper would constantly quickscope or headshot him, he would live, body shot him back, our team and co-medic go rolling over their team.
2. I find my life and especially my teammates life, a lot more disposable. Don't get me wrong, I don't want my team dying and especially not me. But I would be lying if I said that I feel bad on dying with ANY percent of ubercharge on me. Why? Cause I know that unless they can just steamroll or win, I'll be back and putting them in the same situation in about 20 seconds. Granted, I take a massive amounts of mental damage on how many spies get the achievement of Dr. NOOOOOOO on me.
3. The Vacc is (mostly) op because it wins a bunch of skirmishes... which surprise surprise, TF2 is filled with those. It's not even like you trade up Uber contests, you instead, just like the Vacc always does, mitigate the damage and hopefully outlast theirs (you generally will, if playing properly.)
With all that being said, you should still have know how on how to use the stock medi-gun since it's ALWAYS going to work. It will also take out a true turtle defensive spot since the Vacc can't take on the entire team.
The very last thing, I think the Vacc is a horrible medi-gun. Not cause it's bad (if you somehow came to that conclusion), but it's from the fact that it completely changes how the game is played. Not just for the medic and patient but for the enemy medic, enemy team, AND YOUR TEAM. It's the only medi-gun you have you hope your teammates know what they're doing and competent enough. When people get Ubered, they almost always rush. Not with the Vacc cause 20 dps scawy. It now makes shoot the medic even harder, but it feels like you're getting punished for it. Just a terrible game feeling weapon for everyone that's not the medic and patient who knows what's up.
I agree with everything except the last statement about how it relies too heavily on teammates knowing how to play the game. That just kind of feels like another "wow, water is wet" situation. Every medigun is like that to some extent. Hell, it's not even the worst case on the vaccinator, the kritz has that problem way worse. But yeah I think that the vaccinator in its current state is entirely unbalanced and unfun to play against due to it strong arming people into focus firing you to even have a chance at killing you.
Edit: I do think that the vaccinators concept has a lot of potential but the damage types system is inherently flawed and should be replaced with something else
In my honest opinion. The vaccinator seems to be quite an amazing device. Some might say it absolutely destroys pubs but that’s only doable if your not doing what was originally intended with the medic, and that’s focusing on them.
The vaccinator when I use it, wether it be with inexperienced players or with highly skilled, they always eventually figure out “HEY! Turns out running around rampant looking for 1v1s in a team based game isn’t what your supposed to do!”
It might be a terrible thing to combat with one person, but eventually it teaches players how to overcome what is some of the worst possible things in casual. Planning and teamwork.
I get most people don’t have microphones or a way to communicate but at least you can still learn to make sure you have each others back and push with eachother and not apart.
If you ever make something like this for the melee, please don’t forget the amputator lets you get a max 9+ regen when holding it long enough which can out heal afterburn when running away,
The stats dont say it and people generally forget it even does that lol,
Which makes it seem much more like its just aoe rather than genuinely saving you by a hair more than once
I think the amputator will not get a glowing recommendation because of the regen; it's basically worthless.
@@Theory-Y definitely,
but it does suit some less aggressive or more safe play styles and or extra escapability,
Which lots of people don’t really know and again really only think it does AOE
It's rare but you forgot soldier can do fire damage with the mangler
and bullet damage somehow works on flare guns
24:41 demoman should also get a sword like how spy got the knife, demo knight being a vacc medic's second biggest fear n all
So fun fact about the mantreads, The 75% reduction from air blast does not apply when airborne. Therefore staying around your pyro If you see a market gardener with mantreads is your best bet.
Are mantreads stomp considered melee damage??
Funny story
I found out how good this weapon was pre rework when i vaccinated a heavy. He only took like 11 headshot damage from a sniper. Then i ubered him and he took a fully charged machina shot to the face only about 28 damage or 17 idr too too well. He also had the fists of steel.
Back then it was broken. It was passive crit resistance no uber plus you would regen a bit of health based on damage absorbed plus the ubers didnt work. You could vaccinate 4x bullet if you spammed the ubers before they refilled.
Now it is more balanced.
I think medics and community goes through as a whole the stages.
1st is stock uber oooo this is THE medigun. You pop your first invulnerable and see the enemy team get destroyed. But you realize you die too fast to pop and you take too long to charge when enemy medic also can charge too.
2nd unlock ooo the blutsaguer the ubersaw and KRTIZKREIG. It charges faster AND crits Oooo nice 😮.
Then you try it on offense and realize you and your pocket can still take damage. But then you try on DEFENSE and watch a brass beast heavy an air strike soldier or widowmaker engy just OBLITERATE the enemy team and enemy medic rages that he was 99.99999999999999999999999 1/2 episode 2 % of ubeecharge left lol. 😂
3rd is you get the drop for a quick fix. Ooo and the crusader's crossbow the amputator and the solem vow....and the vita saw but no one remembers it. Now you see that it wont just be you and your pocket but now you can keep everyone alive in top more or less health and just watch as you slowly win the battle of attrition. That first sticky jump or rocket jump with your pocket straight into the enemy's area without pushback and being healed more than they can dish out damage. But you still feel the urge to go back to kritz and old reliable stock now that you learned how to stay alive and carry an uber saw with you.
4th is Vaccinator. Popping your first heavy avoiding him dying within 2 seconds of sentry fire fire from another heavy a sniper quickscope and a scout and actually keep pushing forward. NOW WERE COOKIN. also ruining a phlog critted pyro or kritz medic pair. You by now also learned about stuff like how 60% of ranged attacks are hitscan bullet and about 25% explosives or projectile with 5% fire or afterburn. So keep it in bullet and occasional rocket spam with the rare pyro ambush every now and then. Also how timing it right you can pocket heal pop an uber and either crossbow heal or ubersaw the incoming enemies then switch back and pop another uber. Outlasting p much all other ubers if you time everything right.
Last stage is realizing all ubers have their place. Kritz on defense / area denial suppressing fire. Quick fix for helping if you have a second medic or no medic and too much damage from the enemy. Stock for old reliable. And vaccinator for actual higher level gameplay than just standing back and watching your allies do all the work while you stick close to snipers and engineers.
Man I've been waiting for this video for ever. This better have been worth the wait.
flowchart my beloved, we are re-united at long last
Sometimes the Vaccinator DOES use the regular Medigun backpack for some reason, in addition to it's unique backpack. As a diehard Amputator user, I have seen it happen countless times, but I have no idea what exactly happens or how to replicate it.
I really like the concept of medic having a medigun that specializes in offensive play with high uptime and weaker ubers, but I don't really like the "damage type resistance" concept because the vast majority of classes only shoot bullets. I would rather have completely different effects for the ubers. Like maybe combine the concepts of soldiers banners and make it into a medigun. Maybe have one uber that negates crits and gives a small damage resistance, one uber that gives a small damage bonus or mini crits, and another uber that does something like a speed boost or smth. This way, you are forced to use ubers more tactically and make the ubers overall weaker, being more nuanced and much more fun for both sides. This would also give the vaccinator a couple extra niches, just to make up for the ubers being worse, like using a speed uber on your scout to rollout really fast or smth.
near movie length video omg
I've personally only used vacc my entire time playing TF2 and it truly is a beast at times, I can't tell you how many times it has stopped a regular uber push from happening in my games with it plus it feels more intuitive to use because ubers aren't as valuable as stock so you can pop uber whenever you need but, it's just a shame that not a lot of people like you make videos about it, it's a highly capable medigun that is stigmatized due to that fact.
the ultimate bobby b frag montage
Admittedly, on Uncletopia HK, the vaccinator is often stifled from the fact that there's always a good spread of damage types attacking at any one time, so it becomes nearly impossible to maintain the damage resistance unless you get lucky.
no way.... never thought i'd see the day
Comment for the algorithm but I already know you're about to COOK🔥🔥🔥🔥
A breath of fresh air huh? Good stuff
Also I HAVE to be "that" guy
Cleaver isn't melee, it's "generic", if it was melee damage it'd do 100 to steel heavies
Flare Guns direct hits are actually considered bullet damage for some reason, so a decent combo pyro can also bubble check you for 90 if you don't preemptively pop one
That being said scorch shot can be a soft counter to vac since it has all 3 damage types
Bullet on impact
Blast on explosion
Fire on afterburn
Uncletopia shudders underneath how fat the incoming Vaccinator plays will be.
I know this video is about the vaccinator but all it’s done 10 minutes in is convince me I should be using the holiday punch more. The heavy cancelled like 5 Ubers by himself with it
I don't like playing against Vaccinator medics.
get good
@@artifactUit's not a matter of skill issue at that point
It's just not fun to fight at all, whether you don't kill or kill the medic
Do you like fighting against a constantly overhealed Sniper?
@@RandomFurry07 i made that reply jokingly since theres litterally nothing you can do against vacc. but yeah its stupid
The vaccinator is like a good defense in a fighting game, which is also the reason why so many people hate it.
Blocking bullets is like blocking lows, fast attacks you cant react to, blocking explosives is like blocking overheads, generally reactable attacks that the opponent will generally throw out sparingly, and blocking fire is like blocking the rare throw the opponent might hit you with to break your defense.
People get annoyed in a fighting game when all their offense gets parried and punished, bad players might even call it cheap or "block spamming". All of this really reminds me of how the Vaccinator is often considered to be medics best Medigun when really this couldnt be further from the truth, it's arguebly not even good if you compare it to stock or kritz. But its certainly the most fun and engaging way to play medic, it's just not viable to do so if I'm the only Medic on my team, the Overhealrate is too pathetic for that.
Spends 1:12:46 to make a vaccinator video, but not 5 seconds to heal his flank scout
I made a comment previously on not using the vaccinator out of respect, and that secion about duoing reminded me why I think this.
I once duo'd with my bro who is somewhat of a novice at TF2, with him on Heavy and me on vaccinator Med. Pub stomping is the only words I have for what happened.
i feel like the vaccinator falls into the same situation as sniper; it's ultimately balanced with relatively hindering downsides, requiring heavy skill and player input. however, those downsides aren't as immediately apparent to the victims of vaccinator/sniper, thus leading to frustration and a feeling of helplessness against them. they're unfun to fight against from a microscopic view, but from the macroscopic view both sniper and the vaccinator's effectiveness are hindered by their downsides.
That's good analogy
sniper isn't fun to fight against
9:36
"If you're routinely getting to 100%, just use stock and have an exponentially larger impact"
...So about that
It's easier to get to 100% because I only use 25% per charge to win a fight, and even then it's faster.
Yeah my playstyle is inferior, but it's not something that can work with Stock as often
As much as I hate having to fight against a Vacc medic combo like everyone else especially in UncleTopia, I can't really blame medics for using it. Most of the time it's better at keeping you alive than your own team, not to mention that snipers and scouts are an ass to deal with, so sometimes when I can't find a good enough pocket to uber, the vacc is gonna be the "Fuck you" to all those scout, demo and sniper mains.
Vacc: DEF
Kritz: ATK
Quick: HP
all for the Tank.
I am an ex pyro main, i'm a "brain dead" person, i can't swap between damage resistances, i can't use this thing... i think i'll be fine with my beutiful quick fix
29:11 I did not just see a heavy matador a heavy a demoknight i did not
FINALLY I CAN LEARN HOW TO USE THIS.
Again
I just wanna say I love your videos so much man! These in depth guides are the best, and especially the mindset that I learned from your videos has improved me so much. Thank you and please never stop
Whole hour of sweet sweet content... hell yes
I love shutting down the Kritz pocket soldier duo in pubs with this monstruosity of a thing :)
Vacc guide time lesgooooo 👀
I’ve been watching TF2 videos since I started playing in 2011 and this is one of the few channels where I learn new weapon information each video. Everything you say is backed up by testing and isn’t just the wiki recapped.
the crit rocket doing 15 dmg at 31:50 still has me in shock lmao
Before watching this I thought I was good at medic. This was a humbling video.
yo i think i just played a swiftwater payload match like 30 minutes ago with you. Your a good medic fosho
Great video. Some familiar "faces" in the background. Saved. Great stream recently as well.
6:38 bro the heavy punch just stop two über pushes with his trusty haha funny gloves 😭
Honestly my favorite use case of the Vaccinator is the "The enemy team has exactly one good player" scenario.
Also i would make the claim that Spy really is a vaccinator counter. While yes, a backstab will kill ANY medic at any time unless it's a stock medic currently using uber, the more aggressive playstyle and requirement for the medic to pay more attention to what the enemy team is using will make a medic more blind to spies, as they lack the luxury of looking around as often and will be much more distracted on average.
But i do have to give a shootout to the Vaccinator Effect and it's uncanny ability to make people think going demoknight and charging into a heavy is a good idea.
As a medic main, the rush of earning the player's trust is a feeling of euphoria. I usually use Uber or Vaccinator. Now, I'm seeing the Vaccinator is more powerful once your team knows you got their back with resistance.
Also, the sweet taste of salt from the enemies unable to counter resistance bubbles effectively.
In the end, *Skill Issue*
W video, I was completly lost during certain points of the video, but this has been a great learning experience. I had know idea this weapon was so complex.
sick video, love the guides. You're really good at describing this stuff
The brass beast heavy should use the dalokos bar. That extra 50 hp can help compensate for less over heal and will activate the brass beasts dmg resist earlier. (also that 50hp is effectively an extra 200hp with the right bubble).
Y-COIN STOCKS GOING UP UP UP 📈📈📈
I'm waiting for the MvM guide (if he ever want to do it)
You have been awarded a massive amount of ups :)
You beautiful statistician, keep up with the best med content in yt hands down. Comment for ze algorithm
Least confusing competitive tf2 player flowchart lmao. I think I need a little more practice with other mediguns before I'm ready for the Vaccinator
IT'S HERE Y'ALL
Industrial strength bubble blower
All I want for christmas is to not get bullied while using the vaccinator
Okay my brother is my longtime pocket medic and uhh.... I'm forwarding him this video.
Returnin’ to your roots
12:06 it took me way too long to notice this was a 15 second loop, thats like audio blue balls man.
21:58 *careless whisperer starts playing*
Bubbled and flowchart-pilled.
Now it's time for the melee weapons, good luck trying to get clips with the vita saw
babe wake up theory y posted a new video
I've played a fair bit of vac med. The trolldier Luca has kicked my butt. Bro has over 20k kills on his spoon. Pray you don't meet him on a server. Glad to see he got you too and I'm not alone 😂.
Ain't no way this finally dropped
50:44
pub players: rarely form team pushes an focus heavily on 1v1s
vacc: always wins 1v1s
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
as the average transfem support enjoyer, Ive been binge watching basically all of medic 101, and am looking forward to getting practice!
This is the new arrayseven, we medic mains have been saved.