Order Domain Cleric Unearthed Arcana - Dungeons and Dragons
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- The April 2018 Unearthed Arcana has been released -- Order Domain Cleric! Come listen to the what the archetype has in store, and then weigh in on your opinion on our Discord server!
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Order Domain Cleric Unearthed Arcana - Dungeons and Dragons
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Video Edits!
- Voice of Authority applies to weapon attacks, not just melee attacks. This allows ranged weapons to attack using their reaction, something not normally allowed. (Thanks Hulkster94)
- Reaction attacks would trigger Rogue Sneak Attack again on the same round. Big time. (Thanks several viewers!)
Also if you give it to a rogue they will get their sneak attack dice since it is once per turn and not once per round.
Also - you only get an attack of opportunity if the person tries to move away. If two fighters are engaged in combat with each other, they may not use any movement.
Excellent explanations, as always! I love these subclass videos!
It's the preacher with Genesis from Preacher.
The ability to use the reaction is actually pretty good because A: it guarantees the use of the reaction, so it would be a good option for a situation where it is clear that the enemy isn't going to move out of their reach within the next round, or if they might take the disengage action, or if they are teleporting and bypassing opportunity attacks. B: it never specifies melee weapon attacks, just weapon attacks, so a ranged weapon is still a valid option, so that archer who doesn't normally use their reaction has an opportunity to actually get use out of it. C: It could have some niche applications based on initiative order to help guarantee someone an attack before event X happens (buff dispelled, going unconscious, losing advantage, etc).
It really depends on party composition and tactics as well as the monsters and strategies the DM uses, but I think there are plenty of situations where you might want to make sure an ally gets to use their reaction in a given round.
Thanks Hulkster -- good point about the weapon type. I'll make a note in the pinned comment :)
There is also the synergy with rogues, an extra sneak attack each round is very useful.
While others have said that the extra attack from the reaction could be great with rogues, it would also be great for paladins and others classes that can expend a spell slot or bardic inspiration to do more damage.
Divination Wizards get Order's Domain for Divination only spells. Its a fantastic mechanic for spells that players otherwise believe are generally weak (diviniation/enchantment spells).
And Order's Wrath lvl 17th benefits combos well with Voice of Authority, so: Attack a creature with Divine Strike, cast a bonus action spell on an ally (Healing Word, ex.), then have your ally attack the creature you just attacked. All in one turn.
Good tactical point Squid bat!
Nowhere is says, that you have to cast supporty spell to use Voice of Authority. I think we gonna see this as excuse to fireball the frontliners.
"Hp is a resource!"
This was created live on Twitch with input from the community. Every Tuesday Mike Mearls works on game content live at 4PM EST.
I need to make a mind control cleric now might multiclass into bard of the mind as well
You only get attacks of opportunity, happen rarely. So, unless you have sentinel, or some other good useable reaction, this allows party members to actually use their reactions for rounds they would not have.
Rather than allowing a creature to attack your ally, and hoping that it will move to present an attack of opportunity, your ally gets that reaction hit in immediately, this may be enough to finish the enemy creature before it can take its turn... As a supporting move it would be very useful if an ally rolled low for initiative
Thats true about low initiative -- this does help give players some advanced player agency over the initiative system.
Really like this subclass. I see order clerics as being the perfect allies for conquest paladins thematically, though I'd expect to see them as leader and follower hierarchically rather than equals in most cases.
Probably right -- they do make a good pairing though.
divination wizard has that spellslot restore thing
Good to see you posting more and on material not previously covered.
I would say, I think a under developed market for DnD, is character building videos. Like how to build a character with class, skills, spells, feats, backgrounds and multiclass options.
Thezerowulf nerdarchy and webdm go over it pretty extensively
Conrad Korbol I love webdm and their how to roleplay series is really good in that regard. But I don't think any outlet outside of Drow bard really goes in depth into building a class.
Thezerowulf have you watched nerdarchy. They go pretty in depth on builds you can use.
Conrad Korbol yes I have and while I do enjoy them as people. I don't think their videos are particularly high quality. They frequently forget basic abilities and spells. What I was recommending was something more in depth and well thought out. I do love their GM 911 videos.
That juicy mechanic is exactly the same as the Divination School power at 6th level.
It sure is. Big time power.
i really think this is OP actually. very OP
Oh yea? Do tell Chris -- I'd be interested to hear why. :)
Voice of command means cast a bufff or heal like haste bless aid exct. Then they (your targeted ally) can swing at an enemy. Gives me an idea for a utility warlock or sorcerer that would take one lvl in cleric just for this ability.
Reads like a 40k Inquisitor
I think the value behind Voice of Authority is that you’re not going to be getting attacks of opportunity every round normally. With this, as a cleric, you’re going to be casting spells most rounds so this is just making sure you’re getting that extra damage in as much as possible. It isn’t the strongest or most useful power ever but it’s also a first level ability so I think it’s ok and fits the theme well enough.
Edit: I didn’t see the video edits comment but that’s also a nice touch being able to attack at range as a reaction
An added benefit has become clear to me -- it's doubly useful with spell casters who may not be spending actions on weapon attacks. Especially if you partner this with some other kind of melee caster, like another cleric or a paladin -- this helps get a consistent stream of weapon attacks independent of their chosen use for their action that turn.
Titan Bear Gaming ahhh that is a good point. Everyone forgets that the wizard has a mundane dagger but any damage is good damage. The more you look at this the better it seems.
Two titanbear episodes in the space of a day? That's a good day!
Also I think the best wayvto play an illusionist as it stands right now is a glamour bard, one of the most underrated archetypes of any class in my humble opinion
Buff/Debuff Cleric Nice idea :D
For sure :)
Yaaas two videos in two days!
Looks like a good companion for my Paladin of Conquest.
Sure does. The two captains of Order!
Voice of authority = Heal + commanding strike. Nice!
Not a bad use of a turn eh?
Does their dominate spells count the enemy as an ally? If so that’d make the reaction attack way more useful
The order’s dominion is a feature of Divination and I think Abjuration wizards, regaining lower slots for expenditures of higher lvl slots of their respective schools
It sure is. I quite like the mechanic, personally. Feels very empowering at the table.
The spell recovery is similar to diviner’s ability so it is not unique.
So I'm not trying to be that guy, but the ability that lets the character regain spell slots is exactly the same as the Divination wizard's ability except with Enchantment instead of Divination
I haven't read it personally yet, but if voice of authority can be used to enable allies to make ranged weapon attacks, I see the value since they likely wouldn't be making attacks of opportunity anyway.
Edit: My bad, I see that others, quicker to the draw, have already made this point.
Still its a good point :)
Most melee characters rarely ever make an attack of opportunity. At least in my games.
That seems to be the common consensus, Nuncade. Makes powers like these very powerful :)
Dude me too I've been so ready for more!!
Yeah, I agree with the other commenters here. Attacks of opportunity are not a common occurence in most games Ive played. Plenty of characters I have dont use their reaction at all for multiple session stretches, so giving an extra attack to a character feels super useful
I'm sold :) Thanks Ian!
In AL it is really hard to “get the drop”on potential enemies, particularly during a RP dialogue between some mobs that your party stumbled upon... so I think this order-skill could help with that, a The party member talking moves close to the enemy and then you cast a non-threatening healing spell on him/her and wack a surprise attack!!! Maybe?
Haha -- why not!
Also I'm totally making a t-shirt that says "SURPRISE WACK ATTACK".
Weaker reason, but that reaction attack power would be very good on ranged weapon users wouldn't it? Unless I misunderstood the nuts and bolts of the ability, you could command your ranger or a ranged rogue to attack something that could be running away or something of the sort.
You definitely could. That'd be a high value use for it, for sure.
With that AoE Wis save just pull an Avengers Loki style and yell 'KNEEL!' using thaumaturgy.
Love it. Then Hulk comes in and throws you a football field away.
AoO are extremely rare in most games. I'd say less then 1 per combat.
I suppose thats true. Depends on the game too I figure. Still good to reliably get the attack out.
I feel like this is domain is similarly unfocused to the Tempest domain. It gets heavy armor and Divine Strike, plus that 17th level ability that really wants you using your action to attack, yet the spell slot recharge ability also seems like it's begging you to spend your actions casting enchantment spells all the time to recharge utility/healing/buff spell slots. Still, great thematically and could be a lot of fun to play.
The class definitely has a lot of possible avenues to use its Action on. Multi-ability to its core.
I'm doing a oneshot soon so I may try it out, but the idea of "your word is the law and all must follow" seems pretty fun.
Here are my thoughts on the reaction attack. Odds are the only time a melee character gets to use their reaction is either something specific to their class/subclass or when an enemy moves. I would say that when I played a paladin, I maybe used my reaction 1 or two times in a long rest. And that is probably higher than what it actually was. With this, a cleric can use something like bless or haste on lets say a 5th level barbarian who is using a Greatsword. If the cleric is spending spell slots per turn to allow this, that Barbarian is doing an average of 23 damage vs an average of 16 damage a turn. Also, more attempts to attack means the better the chance to crit.
The extra crit opportunities can be verrry big.
You don't always get an attack of opportunity, so most turns you wont use your reaction. But yes, if you do use your reaction now, the enemy is allowed to leave without worrying, but they probably wouldnt run b/c most enemies try not to give you AoO
I agree, it's a good UA. It's straightforward and adaptable.
I like to treat UA's as publicized class design/balance worksheets from within WOTC. Can be very helpful as guidelines for homebrew.
@titanbeargaming Since you like to see how WOTC likes to think about class design, have you seen any of Mike Mearls' Happy Fun Hour? Every week on Tuesday, he streams for an hour; all he does is talk class design and work on subclasses to show his thought process and to encourage people to become their own content creators. So far he's made the order cleric, acrobat rogue, kraken warlock, giant soul sorcerer, and warlord fighter as far as I know.
I've tuned in occasionally -- I might start making it more of a thing, especially if folks would appreciate seeing those builds publicized a bit more.
I think the benefit of voice of authority is getting someone who's a stronger attacker can get a hit off if you don't have anything that turn to use
I can see that, sure. Especially since it would let you cast a support-y spell to that player at the same time as triggering an attack.
Yeah I think it makes use of more tactful play over just attack, attack, attack.
My take on Voice of Authority, I think it’s aim is to let the Cleiric focus on healing and buffing (two things cleirics are good at) and guarantees that the reaction is used to hurt an enemy.
Thats a good take on it -- helps to keep offensive output while doing defensive things. I like it.
You are releasing videos so much this week. I love it. I like you videos a lot. As I said before I haven’t seen anyone do what you do the way you do in a concise matter. I hope to see more frequent uploads lol. Or I will just hit refresh every day XD
There was a lot of good things to talk about this week!
Voice of Authority = Give your Rogue 2 Sneak attacks per round.
Way good.
Great video Alex
Thanks Jonathan I'm glad you liked it.
I enjoy the simplicity of the mechanics of this subclass. All the mechanics seem to tie together really nicely and flavourfully, and I don't see much of an issue with balance here at all.
The reaction attack thingy would be useful in games that I play in; DMs I play with tend to run enemies as if they were aware of the rules to a degree, so enemies tend to stay in melee and await death rather than try to run and hasten it with an opportunity attack. I've managed to perform an opportunity attack once in two years because enemies are universally dedicated to the Meat Matrix and we don't tend to utilise fear effects to force voluntary movement.
As for the flavour, I respect that there was a hole in the Domains list, I'm happy with this being added to the game, but I don't think I'd personally enjoy playing this kind of character. Just a personal choice, though!
As I said in the video, I like this one a good deal. Thats funny about the DM-style you usually play with -- the manually triggered reaction would definitely go a long way there!
The Voice of Authority trait gives me some Warlord 4e vibes, where you coordinate with your allies. Since you are still the cleric, you will still be doing some healing but with that trait, you can be more efficient by making your ally attack while you heal them. Sure, they will lose out on their attack of opportunity, but that was assuming that the enemy was planning to move away. I guess you can have your front liner grapple the enemy so that they dont move away. What I am wondering is will it work of spells with multiple targets? What if you had 3 allies surround an enemy, then cast Bless on all of them? Would all 3 be able to do a weapon attack with their reaction? You could effectively make a firing squad with some ranged weapon users and warcasters.
It's pretty explicit about multi-target ally spells results in you choosing which one gets to use reaction.
I'm not a fan of the gaining of spell slots for this subclass.
The exact same ability is actually seen in the Divination Wizard, but it's for Divination spells instead of Enchantment spells.
The reason I'm okay with the divination spells version, is the fact that none of the divination spells are for combat. So, for the divination wizard, it lets them do their primary function (detecting, tracking, finding, spying) while still maintaining spell slots to use in combat. It takes a primarily out-of-combat ability and lets it not take away from combat anymore.
Enchantment spells are regularly for combat or to avoid combat. So it's not adding a new utility it's just extending their already really powerful function. Feels like overkill.
Granted, I haven't looked at the Cleric list of spells specifically when it comes to enchantment so maybe their selection of spells would mitigate this power boost a bit.
The mechanic definitely warrants uh, moderation, in terms of where it gets applied. I feel your statement about Divination being primarily out of combat, perhaps in this case the feeling is that the Cleric spell list is notably different enough in combat application that a boost to combat output is still ok? Feels like a real hard hitter analysis question.
XGtE brought us Mind Spike, which is a Divination Attack Spell that can be upcast. So there’s that now.
Titan Bear Gaming I feel that of it is balanced, it won't be with future spell releases over time.
As the other reply pointed out, there's a combat divination spell now, which actually affects the potency of the ability on the divination wizard.
Cleric spell list is very limited with enchantment. The best uses of the trait is Command, Bane, Bless and Hold Person. So unless you do some multiclassing shenanigans, it would have as much impact as the Divination Wizard, its a bunch of spells you would normally never waste a spell slot on but with the trait you can be more liberal with those spells.
I just want to play Judge Dredd now.
Obey, citizen.
Are you getting an attack of opportunity every round in your games?!?! I don't see how you don't view the value of Voice of Authority, and I hope maybe it has shown its value since you released the video. In most of my games, it's not the enemies that are moving around like crazy, it's the players so AoO never seems to proc in games I have played. I get that isn't every game, but how does it make sense for an aggressive character (monster, beast, humanoid, etc) to be moving around?
Every 1st level spell(or higher) the cleric casts is an attack. So if you take warlock a few levels to get that sweet sweet short rest spell regen, you can make a fighter take another attack or another sneak attack for a rogue, or a ranged sniper take another attack. Plus, with the level 6 ability, you can push two different characters to do work or one character to stack damage on big targets. This is buffing a target and making it attack, the value can be huge.
I know you want mathematical responses, but this class isn't that and is based on primarily action economy and being efficient. It increases efficiency of the party by creating more opportunities to use a reaction (that could be buffed) at any given time, as well as reducing or even eliminating the enemy's reactions. Aside from it being, by number, powerful? It's a support class, through and through.
Uh... I don't really understand the concept of NOT getting why allowing an ally to attack as a Reaction as not significant? Attacks of Opportunity only happen specifically if a creature that was in reach leaves reach. So unless a creature has Sentinel or if you're a Berserker Barbarian at the level in which you can counter attack, there aren't too drawbacks to this. Especially if you consider that now a buff or healing is now more potential damage as opposed to what would most likely be an unused Reaction. Consider the following:
1. Ranged characters will almost never be able to get off a Reaction because if an enemy closes the distance between them, that enemy probably has the advantage and isn't going to be retreating any time soon. Hell, even a Rogue using a ranged weapon might not have to use their Uncanny Dodge Reaction if there's enough places to hide and enough room to skirt around.
2. Rogues benefit tremendously from this because of Sneak Attack which can occur once per turn. So the potential of a second turn of sneak attack damage is pretty damn significant.
3. Grappling and Shoving! This is something a LOT of people, for some reason, don't know about or use. A Grapple or a Shove is an "attack" not an "Action", in other words, any time you make an attack, you can replace that attack with a Grapple or a Shove. This is significant because timing and positioning is often important for these two things. The creature's turn is next and it's next to a cliff, but your Barbarian dashed to it and it'll just Disengage and move if nothing is done before then? The enemy just moved, now it's your turn, get your Fighter or Barbarian to Shove it to the ground and get a full round of Advantage attacks on it! The creature is about to get away with sometime important? Just have your Fighter/Barbarian Grapple it now.
So yeah, it's a guaranteed Reaction that can be controlled and isn't based on what the enemy does.
Solid examples Gnol. Nice tactical suggestions.
As to why the giving an ally an attack with their reaction is good, it's just as you stated. Though I think you're overestimating how many Aoo's happen during combat. One pcs are engaged in melee against an enemy they usually don't leave them and vice versa, unless they're a ranged character. Most rounds a rogue, for instance, doesn't get a second sneak attack. If the conditions for SA, are met, then this is an amazing ability. Same for paladin smite, or a monk that could get this enemy stunned before their turn and just beat them with advantage on their turn. In my experience ad a DM and player reactions get used probably less than 50% of the time unless you've got sentinel
Solid examples Evan thanks!
Sounds pretty cool, too bad I've been DM since November
You could always make an NPC and use this.
Newmn84 sure sure that's probably what I'll do
You hella adorable
Well thanks Ben.
He is tho. :hearteyes:
Nathaniel Phillips Just a 10/10
The unf to voice of authority is the potential second sneak attack for a rogue without needing the attack of opportunity to get it
Thats true -- double sneak attack is hyoog.