As a French, I can't tell you how refreshing it is to stumble on this lecture. I've watched a fair share of English speaking lectures and documentaries about WW1 and the western front and, more often than not, they give the impression - when it's even mentioned - that the French Army was merely an extra in this war, that it was won by the British with a little late help from the US and almost despite the French; although it has slowly started to change a bit in the last few years... Not too soon! (Pas trop tôt !) ;)
Because sending troops to France in 1914 and then building a mass conscription army was the single greatest mistake in British history. So they have to convince themselves that it actually was all worth it because France would have lost without the BEF. It is a coping mechanism.
@@caratacus6204 People often forget that, though british troops on land wasn't the best, the british and french troops were going all over the world in proxy wars against ottomans, africa, etc and absolutely crushed them. The western front was by far the most important but english and french troops actually made the ottoman empire disappear on the map on a secondary front.
A bit exaggerated.. Of course the focus will be on their own though. But that the French were not there is not the impression I get. But the French focus on the French..
I know what you mean...as a Kiwi in high school is 70's I really knew nothing about the French, just not mentioned..and only many years later did I learn the truth which is British just under 1 mill dead 100,000 US..France lost 1.4 mill dead which means around three times wounded which is usually life changing...so, huge respect for those guys leaving family to sit in trenches in Verdun and other places knowing they had a good chance of suffering the worst fate and unfortunately did...maybe thats why the Marseilles is the most emotive anthem!!!
In in my early 70's and I have been reading abotu World War 1 since I was 14. I knew a lot about the French sacrifces in 1914 and 15 and at Verdun. But I did not know much abour this attack in 1917. It kind of falls under the radar on the Nivelles offensive and the mutiny. What a great presentation, and what a lovely lady you are. Thank you so much
Fabulous presentation of fascinating material. Great to learn about the meticulousness of French battlefield intelligence and that a young Captain Marshall of the AEF was present as an observer from August 1917 onwards.
Thank you for this one! I remember my aunts husband who was a soldier boy in Vietnam & Algeria often refering to the big war and Verdun and Aug 1914 as "the worst yet".
Very little online information available on her. She specialised on Verdun so I guess she has spent quite some time on the continental side of the Channel exploring both the Verdun battle ground and the French military archives (her French is good but not native for sure). Where does this "niche" interest comes from? Total mystery (a quick introduction in the presentation section of the video would be welcome). Anyhow she is a welcome relief from the British lecturers perpetual British sterile repetitive self-centric approach on any subject of WW1. Her English seems totally native but her last name might suggest that she is from (maybe remote) German/Danish extraction.
An excellent lecture by Ms Holstein! Thank you WFA for hosting her. 10:08 the US had joined the war in April 1917 on the side of the Triple Entente, but not as an "ally". It called itself an "associated power".
The lack of translation of French language histories and memoires into English contributes to a limited understanding. Christina Holsteins' work is massively helping to break this down. Impressive presentation.
Brilliant presentation. There is a British historian on here and elsewhere (whose name I cannot recall) who dubbed Verdun "the saddest place I know". The scale of destruction and losses is beyond compare and comprehension.
I've been to Verdun but plan to visit again in a year or two- before I do I'm going to buy your books and walking tours will be on my agenda. Excellent presentation! I had no idea that George C. Marshall was there- I can imagine that the experience shaped his thinking on logistics and many other aspects of the military arts and sciences.
She never once mentioned the Briey triangle, the area of iron and coal industries NW of Verdun that the French simply gave up in 1914 and never once tried to destroy or retake. General Sarrail campaigned hard for a year to be allowed to attack in that sector and was continually rebuffed, eventually they shipped him off to Salonika out of the way. The war would have been brought to an end if the French had retaken Briey, but the politicians in the pay of the industrialists kept the war going by allowing the Germans to retain Briey and exploit it's iron ore. They didn't allow any artillery to fire on Briey or any aircraft to bomb it either, post-war there was an inquest into L'affaire de Briey and it was a whitewash.
Petain was the perfect general for the defensive and on the counterpunch. Think about how different the war would have been if he had been in charge of the initial planning for the battle on the frontier.
My grandad came from Scotland to NZ 10 years after the war, he wasn't in combat as far as we know, and he never spoke much about it but one thing I clearly remember him saying in the strongest Glaswegian accent and in a very somber, serious way, was that Verdun was terrible, the worst, a terrible battle and shook his head....I never forgot that and I think he was right..of all the horrific battles it was super shocking because of the way troops from both sides were shovelled in to small areas and just blown to bits, then all the attacking and counter attacking..mass slaughter
British military, and subsequently civilian, disregard for the French suffered from the French military's habit of retreating without informing their British allies, beginning with the abrupt withdrawal of their Fifth army in August 1914 leaving the BEF's right wing exposed for ten miles. GQG was always reluctant to pass information to GHQ.
The French army in WW1 was the strongest Entente army. 1914-1918. Due to the horrific losses morale was terrible spring 1917 but it was restored. As this shows an offensive Aug 1917.
@Alfonso Fedele I’m not disagreeing with the fact that the French did the majority of the fighting on the Western fronts but it’s important to remember that the fighting was not evenly spread out along the whole frontline. The Belgian sector and the southernmost third of the western front which was held by the French saw comparatively little fighting.
Well the French army was the strongest in the world by 1916-1917. Mutinies happened because of useless attacks and boosted commanders who were promoted because they were leftists, not because they were competent commanders. This has led to clearing out the army, and it was a good thing overall.
As a French, I can't tell you how refreshing it is to stumble on this lecture. I've watched a fair share of English speaking lectures and documentaries about WW1 and the western front and, more often than not, they give the impression - when it's even mentioned - that the French Army was merely an extra in this war, that it was won by the British with a little late help from the US and almost despite the French; although it has slowly started to change a bit in the last few years... Not too soon! (Pas trop tôt !)
;)
Because sending troops to France in 1914 and then building a mass conscription army was the single greatest mistake in British history. So they have to convince themselves that it actually was all worth it because France would have lost without the BEF. It is a coping mechanism.
@@caratacus6204 People often forget that, though british troops on land wasn't the best, the british and french troops were going all over the world in proxy wars against ottomans, africa, etc and absolutely crushed them.
The western front was by far the most important but english and french troops actually made the ottoman empire disappear on the map on a secondary front.
A bit exaggerated.. Of course the focus will be on their own though. But that the French were not there is not the impression I get. But the French focus on the French..
I know what you mean...as a Kiwi in high school is 70's I really knew nothing about the French, just not mentioned..and only many years later did I learn the truth which is British just under 1 mill dead 100,000 US..France lost 1.4 mill dead which means around three times wounded which is usually life changing...so, huge respect for those guys leaving family to sit in trenches in Verdun and other places knowing they had a good chance of suffering the worst fate and unfortunately did...maybe thats why the Marseilles is the most emotive anthem!!!
Well at least the British Army kept fighting while the French were in mutiny
In in my early 70's and I have been reading abotu World War 1 since I was 14.
I knew a lot about the French sacrifces in 1914 and 15 and at Verdun.
But I did not know much abour this attack in 1917. It kind of falls under the radar on the Nivelles offensive and the mutiny.
What a great presentation, and what a lovely lady you are.
Thank you so much
She’s a credit to the Western Front organization.
High quality material and high quality delivery. Thank you Christina.
A really high quality lecture, on a site were a high standard is the norm...
Fabulous presentation of fascinating material. Great to learn about the meticulousness of French battlefield intelligence and that a young Captain Marshall of the AEF was present as an observer from August 1917 onwards.
This series of presentations is fantastic. Much more depth and the why and how.
Thank you for this one! I remember my aunts husband who was a soldier boy in Vietnam & Algeria often refering to the big war and Verdun and Aug 1914 as "the worst yet".
Very impressive discussion of a phase of the fighting around Verdun that does not receive the attention it should
Superb NARRATION and well presented by this lady.
Very little online information available on her. She specialised on Verdun so I guess she has spent quite some time on the continental side of the Channel exploring both the Verdun battle ground and the French military archives (her French is good but not native for sure).
Where does this "niche" interest comes from? Total mystery (a quick introduction in the presentation section of the video would be welcome).
Anyhow she is a welcome relief from the British lecturers perpetual British sterile repetitive self-centric approach on any subject of WW1. Her English seems totally native but her last name might suggest that she is from (maybe remote) German/Danish extraction.
Great lecture on a battle I had never heard about and I have visited Verdun. Time to plan another trip there.
An excellent lecture by Ms Holstein! Thank you WFA for hosting her.
10:08 the US had joined the war in April 1917 on the side of the Triple Entente, but not as an "ally".
It called itself an "associated power".
The lack of translation of French language histories and memoires into English contributes to a limited understanding. Christina Holsteins' work is massively helping to break this down. Impressive presentation.
Brilliant presentation. There is a British historian on here and elsewhere (whose name I cannot recall) who dubbed Verdun "the saddest place I know". The scale of destruction and losses is beyond compare and comprehension.
Once in a while I stumble across a gem among the youtube pebbles. This is one of those! Thank you for this presentation!
Wow. Talk about being across your brief. Outstanding Christina.
Nice presentation Christina thank you.
As a frenchmen I enjoyed the question part !
I've been to Verdun but plan to visit again in a year or two- before I do I'm going to buy your books and walking tours will be on my agenda. Excellent presentation! I had no idea that George C. Marshall was there- I can imagine that the experience shaped his thinking on logistics and many other aspects of the military arts and sciences.
She never once mentioned the Briey triangle, the area of iron and coal industries NW of Verdun that the French simply gave up in 1914 and never once tried to destroy or retake. General Sarrail campaigned hard for a year to be allowed to attack in that sector and was continually rebuffed, eventually they shipped him off to Salonika out of the way. The war would have been brought to an end if the French had retaken Briey, but the politicians in the pay of the industrialists kept the war going by allowing the Germans to retain Briey and exploit it's iron ore. They didn't allow any artillery to fire on Briey or any aircraft to bomb it either, post-war there was an inquest into L'affaire de Briey and it was a whitewash.
Thank you, very informative and interesting, will buy her book.
Petain was the perfect general for the defensive and on the counterpunch. Think about how different the war would have been if he had been in charge of the initial planning for the battle on the frontier.
My grandad came from Scotland to NZ 10 years after the war, he wasn't in combat as far as we know, and he never spoke much about it but one thing I clearly remember him saying in the strongest Glaswegian accent and in a very somber, serious way, was that Verdun was terrible, the worst, a terrible battle and shook his head....I never forgot that and I think he was right..of all the horrific battles it was super shocking because of the way troops from both sides were shovelled in to small areas and just blown to bits, then all the attacking and counter attacking..mass slaughter
Superb work
Great presentation :)
Awesome, loved this.
British military, and subsequently civilian, disregard for the French suffered from the French military's habit of retreating without informing their British allies, beginning with the abrupt withdrawal of their Fifth army in August 1914 leaving the BEF's right wing exposed for ten miles. GQG was always reluctant to pass information to GHQ.
French: bad, English: good
@Alfonso Fedele 1000 years of sibling level squabbling lol.
Was the French 'hit back' before or after the mutinies that made the French Army a very fragile instrument for the end of WWI?
Mutiny was in April/May 1917; French offensive was 20 August 1917.
The French Army wasn't a fragile instrument but the strongest allied army by a large margin.
The French army in WW1 was the strongest Entente army. 1914-1918. Due to the horrific losses morale was terrible spring 1917 but it was restored.
As this shows an offensive Aug 1917.
@Alfonso Fedele I’m not disagreeing with the fact that the French did the majority of the fighting on the Western fronts but it’s important to remember that the fighting was not evenly spread out along the whole frontline. The Belgian sector and the southernmost third of the western front which was held by the French saw comparatively little fighting.
Well the French army was the strongest in the world by 1916-1917.
Mutinies happened because of useless attacks and boosted commanders who were promoted because they were leftists, not because they were competent commanders.
This has led to clearing out the army, and it was a good thing overall.