This is Alclad Primer resold by AK with their label, sometimes at a cheaper price than the original Alclad bottles. It's great stuff and very durable, but worth noting that it's far too matte to put Citadel Contrast or similar paints over it. They just soak into it instead of working like you'd expect, and you get poor results. I find that the Mr Surfacer primers do the same, even though they appear (and feel) smooth to the touch. These lacquer primers are great if you're going to brush over them, but they really do seem to absorb acrylic or oil paints so you can get some unexpected results if you're not expecting this. Easiest way to clean this is with acetone, which is generally what these types of paints are thinned with by the manufacturer. This can damage the rubber seals in very cheap airbrushes, but so will lacquer paints in general.
That is excellent info and makes a whole bunch of things suddenly make much more sense. The absorption of acrylic needs some further experimentation I think... Thanks for this Dylan!
I am afraid you are confused about the spanish company that is doing that. Ak manufactures everything on their own. It is the company with the three bullets the one who deals with alclad.
@@FlyingRavenStudios I do, just check on their metal range and you will see their labels used to state it was an alclad product, it is a cobranding. Google ammo alclad and you will see. AK manufactures their own xtreme metals and xtreme microfillers that in my opinion are the best metal lacquers around. Not a big deal, just saying that whoppers are not a mcdonalds product :)
Quick comment, then a long one.. great video! I love the quick explanation and getting to the demo and the whole point. I'll have to go look through your other videos for some quick tips! For the long comment: The two ways you can tell what the paint is, is that it's 'self leveling', which means it's likely a laquer, and the other is looking at the MSDS (though you might have to ask for it). But the reason it's so much better is because being a lacquer and thus, being solvent based, it will have a very low surface tension, slide into all the nooks and crannies and eat into the plastic and adhere very well. And that's because it's a real primer, unlike the Vallejo's. Now, I love Vallejo and have tons of their paints.. but there's a lot of marketing misconception to primers. A primer is meant to clean and adhere strongly to the material with a harsh solvent. This will dissolve oils or other contaminants, then provide a nice surface for the paint to stick to. It's required if you're painting on multiple surface types, some plastics, metals and some resins, among other things. Any normal water based acrylic simply can't be a primer because it can't have those solvents to eat in and give you that hard, well adhered layer. They're just base paints, possibly with some urethane to make them a bit more durable.. but every one of them I can scratch off with a fingernail (and I've tried a LOT of them). The Tamiya primer paint is also solvent based, and you won't be scratching that off (or the AK) with your finger. Now, base paints are still very important, and with modern plastic model kits, acrylic adheres to it very well so you don't really need a primer, just a good base-coat. But that's all the Vallejo 'primer' is, a base coat. Also, just another note.. the acrylic is the binder for the pigment, and in normal acrylic paints, water is the 'solvent' and vehicle (lets you spread it around). But you can actually have an acrylic with a harsh solvent, like Tamiya's acrylics. Water cleanable, but behave much more like a lacquer than your normal acrylic paint. If you look at the Tamiya acrylic datasheets, they have some alcohols and hot solvents in them as well (which is why they're not non-toxic), but mostly water. Another example of a mixed sort of paint is enamel; an oil paint with an alcohol solvent, and some of those have acrylic binders, so sometimes being an 'acrylic' doesn't tell you the whole story. So, in summary, a primer has to be something that adheres to the model better than just your normal paint, and to do that, it needs to be something other than just a water-based acrylic. That's why you'll always get better results from a solvent based primer (ones you can't clean with just water) than an acrylic base paint like Vallejo and many other brands.
@@FlyingRavenStudios I started out in scale modeling, where weird materials are often the norm and good primers are more essential. Lots of differences in techniques between miniature modeling and scale modeling, I'm learning. Doing a lot more blending paints with brushes than I ever did on aircraft models. Love the channel!
@stormycatmink thanks mate, I really appreciate that. Yeah I also started out in scale modelling and the range of techniques and equipment is crazy. Always something new to learn or try out 😁
This was incredibly informative, especially the comments. Is there any chance you could do a similar review of AK's (supposedly acrylic) black & white primers? How do they compare to Vallejo's?
Really happy you found it useful! As for the acrylic primers you mention, thanks thats a great question. I will have to see if I can get hold of some and test them out. 👍
Thanks for the great video! QQ: how many layers of this primer do you recommend applying and would you sand it afterwards? I intend on applying this very product before painting with the AK Xtreme metal for a kinda glossy stainless steel finish
Great question. Normally I use just one coat through an airbrush and that has been fine for my needs. Being honest, I have not experimented with lacquer metalics yet. I have some but not got as far as testing them properly... but are on the list! So at the moment, all I can suggest is doing a test piece first. But please let me know how you get on!
Thank you! I ended up doing one coat for the primer and 24h later one with the lacquer metallic. It was enough to achieve the glossy/ reflection effect. In retrospect, applying more than one coat for the primer may have given an even smoother (and hence shinier) surface, despite what I thought was an already quite good sanding of my 3D print, but it's just a maybe
I generally find these days I use Tamiya XF series black, white or grey for my base coating. I fill a new mini pot up tonthe top eith straight Isopropyl alcohol and thats its ready to go. I got fed up with acrylic primers always clogging my airbrush and the Alclad primers were to stinky.
Thanks for the vid and review. Other than a couple of rattle cans for big pieces, I’ve been getting the smallest bottles of primer to find the ones I want to invest more in. Mecha Black was a good rec for me, but Vallejo German Red Brown is my winner for smooth, even coverage using a brush. I don’t always want to start from that dark and am still looking for a grey or white I like. This AK looks a little hard to deal with and possibly homicidal. I’m curious about the fine surface primer, will (re?)check out that vid.
@@FlyingRavenStudios Red Brown for anything human(ish) and at any scale, especially good under skin, leather, hair, and fur-and gold/bronze metallics too, come to think of it. But I also use it on bases and terrain, since I like it. Maybe I like it because it’s one of the first primers I used, but applied right it perfectly preserves fine details, and I find it to be durable and reliable. Gets cranky if applied too thickly, but I assume any primer would. But I want to line up my vast pile of 28mm figures and spray all of them en masse, so I can sit and enjoy painting their tiny faces and fingers at my leisure (and during work calls).
Nice to see you back! As I can't be bothered with spraying stuff, I use thinned down white Humbrol (who I think may have gone out of business) or Revell enamel for metal and Army Painter brush-on primer for resin, (I use 15mm mostly, so not much available in plastic). I read somewhere that it's a bad idea to use solvent-based paints on resin, but I have no idea if that's true. I like AK products (particularly their 'Diorama' range), but that primer looks rather more trouble than it's worth.
Thanks, and good to be back! Humbrol is still going (at least I saw a rack of humbrol paint in a shop the other day). I have heard a variety of things about resin, but like you say, I'm not sure what's true or an old wives tale..... will have to investigate!
@@FlyingRavenStudios I had some minis (resin vehicles) arrive today from Alternative Armies, and they came with a note on construction and painting; 'Do not prime our resin models with anything other than ACRYLIC spray paint (some solvents used in spray cans may affect the resin making paint degrade or fail to set)'. They also advise against the use of epoxy.
Informative and interesting video 👍 I'm using this AK primer black for metalic colors on plane models exhaust. It works well. I had issues with cleaning in beginning and AK thinner is expensive to use for cleaning. However cellulose thinner is very good substitute, but smells awful 😅😅
AK certainly makes a lot of high quality products and this looks like another home run. (-: That said I'm probably not going to use it, simply because it's not acrylic based. I don't mind working with/spraying enamels or laquers, but I don't trust my both at home to 100% filter out enamels/laquers 100%, so better safe then sorry. My go to primer is Ultimate Modelling Products. I do own AK, GSW, Vallejo, Tamiya and MiG primers, and while I do use them, it's not my first or even second choice.
I love these AK primers so much :D Especially for large models. I can just keep pouring it into the cup of my airbrush and it never clogs and I don't have to thin more or anything, primed one huge beast with like 20 ml of this in one sitting without having to clean the tip of my airbrush :D Also apparently they don't start to form chunks like acrylic based primers do over time. :D One important thing to note is that while the grey one is very matte in finish, the black primer is very shiny :D I love using it as a base under metallic paints. :D Also love the white one, covers quite well for a white primer :) They are more expensive but I especially like them for priming large miniatures where I applied some green stuff or such and wasn't able to deep clean it before priming because I feel like it just sticks better. :D
Absolutely fine. Just keep the coats nice and thin and don't flood the detail as you would normally avoid doing. I find that for a warhammer model, one thin but even coat is absolutely fine to then paint on.
I've not used this myself yet but I've seen some scale model videos stating that this is a lacquer primer. but I cant state that as a fact was just what they claimed.
You are quite right! After this video, I got a reply from AK themselves confirming it is indeed a lacquer. I posted the reply on the community page if it is of interest
I will be giving this stuff a pass, mainly because of the solvent and melting plastic issue... allergies are a factor here. Thanks for the information, saves me from trying it.
This is Alclad Primer resold by AK with their label, sometimes at a cheaper price than the original Alclad bottles. It's great stuff and very durable, but worth noting that it's far too matte to put Citadel Contrast or similar paints over it. They just soak into it instead of working like you'd expect, and you get poor results. I find that the Mr Surfacer primers do the same, even though they appear (and feel) smooth to the touch. These lacquer primers are great if you're going to brush over them, but they really do seem to absorb acrylic or oil paints so you can get some unexpected results if you're not expecting this.
Easiest way to clean this is with acetone, which is generally what these types of paints are thinned with by the manufacturer. This can damage the rubber seals in very cheap airbrushes, but so will lacquer paints in general.
That is excellent info and makes a whole bunch of things suddenly make much more sense. The absorption of acrylic needs some further experimentation I think... Thanks for this Dylan!
I am afraid you are confused about the spanish company that is doing that. Ak manufactures everything on their own. It is the company with the three bullets the one who deals with alclad.
Do you mean Ammo by Mig?
@@FlyingRavenStudios I do, just check on their metal range and you will see their labels used to state it was an alclad product, it is a cobranding. Google ammo alclad and you will see. AK manufactures their own xtreme metals and xtreme microfillers that in my opinion are the best metal lacquers around. Not a big deal, just saying that whoppers are not a mcdonalds product :)
Haha that is very true
Quick comment, then a long one.. great video! I love the quick explanation and getting to the demo and the whole point. I'll have to go look through your other videos for some quick tips! For the long comment: The two ways you can tell what the paint is, is that it's 'self leveling', which means it's likely a laquer, and the other is looking at the MSDS (though you might have to ask for it). But the reason it's so much better is because being a lacquer and thus, being solvent based, it will have a very low surface tension, slide into all the nooks and crannies and eat into the plastic and adhere very well. And that's because it's a real primer, unlike the Vallejo's.
Now, I love Vallejo and have tons of their paints.. but there's a lot of marketing misconception to primers. A primer is meant to clean and adhere strongly to the material with a harsh solvent. This will dissolve oils or other contaminants, then provide a nice surface for the paint to stick to. It's required if you're painting on multiple surface types, some plastics, metals and some resins, among other things. Any normal water based acrylic simply can't be a primer because it can't have those solvents to eat in and give you that hard, well adhered layer. They're just base paints, possibly with some urethane to make them a bit more durable.. but every one of them I can scratch off with a fingernail (and I've tried a LOT of them). The Tamiya primer paint is also solvent based, and you won't be scratching that off (or the AK) with your finger. Now, base paints are still very important, and with modern plastic model kits, acrylic adheres to it very well so you don't really need a primer, just a good base-coat. But that's all the Vallejo 'primer' is, a base coat.
Also, just another note.. the acrylic is the binder for the pigment, and in normal acrylic paints, water is the 'solvent' and vehicle (lets you spread it around). But you can actually have an acrylic with a harsh solvent, like Tamiya's acrylics. Water cleanable, but behave much more like a lacquer than your normal acrylic paint. If you look at the Tamiya acrylic datasheets, they have some alcohols and hot solvents in them as well (which is why they're not non-toxic), but mostly water. Another example of a mixed sort of paint is enamel; an oil paint with an alcohol solvent, and some of those have acrylic binders, so sometimes being an 'acrylic' doesn't tell you the whole story.
So, in summary, a primer has to be something that adheres to the model better than just your normal paint, and to do that, it needs to be something other than just a water-based acrylic. That's why you'll always get better results from a solvent based primer (ones you can't clean with just water) than an acrylic base paint like Vallejo and many other brands.
Thank you for your kind words and thanks for the indepth explanation! Most appreciated!
@@FlyingRavenStudios I started out in scale modeling, where weird materials are often the norm and good primers are more essential. Lots of differences in techniques between miniature modeling and scale modeling, I'm learning. Doing a lot more blending paints with brushes than I ever did on aircraft models. Love the channel!
@stormycatmink thanks mate, I really appreciate that. Yeah I also started out in scale modelling and the range of techniques and equipment is crazy. Always something new to learn or try out 😁
This was incredibly informative, especially the comments. Is there any chance you could do a similar review of AK's (supposedly acrylic) black & white primers? How do they compare to Vallejo's?
Really happy you found it useful! As for the acrylic primers you mention, thanks thats a great question. I will have to see if I can get hold of some and test them out. 👍
Thanks for the great video! QQ: how many layers of this primer do you recommend applying and would you sand it afterwards? I intend on applying this very product before painting with the AK Xtreme metal for a kinda glossy stainless steel finish
Great question. Normally I use just one coat through an airbrush and that has been fine for my needs.
Being honest, I have not experimented with lacquer metalics yet. I have some but not got as far as testing them properly... but are on the list!
So at the moment, all I can suggest is doing a test piece first. But please let me know how you get on!
Thank you! I ended up doing one coat for the primer and 24h later one with the lacquer metallic. It was enough to achieve the glossy/ reflection effect. In retrospect, applying more than one coat for the primer may have given an even smoother (and hence shinier) surface, despite what I thought was an already quite good sanding of my 3D print, but it's just a maybe
I generally find these days I use Tamiya XF series black, white or grey for my base coating. I fill a new mini pot up tonthe top eith straight Isopropyl alcohol and thats its ready to go. I got fed up with acrylic primers always clogging my airbrush and the Alclad primers were to stinky.
This AK primer seems similar Mr. Finishing Surface 1500 Primer. I'm give this a try if I see it in my local game store.
Thanks for the vid and review. Other than a couple of rattle cans for big pieces, I’ve been getting the smallest bottles of primer to find the ones I want to invest more in. Mecha Black was a good rec for me, but Vallejo German Red Brown is my winner for smooth, even coverage using a brush. I don’t always want to start from that dark and am still looking for a grey or white I like. This AK looks a little hard to deal with and possibly homicidal. I’m curious about the fine surface primer, will (re?)check out that vid.
I haven't tried the red brown yet. What sort of colour scheme are you painting over it?
@@FlyingRavenStudios Red Brown for anything human(ish) and at any scale, especially good under skin, leather, hair, and fur-and gold/bronze metallics too, come to think of it. But I also use it on bases and terrain, since I like it. Maybe I like it because it’s one of the first primers I used, but applied right it perfectly preserves fine details, and I find it to be durable and reliable. Gets cranky if applied too thickly, but I assume any primer would.
But I want to line up my vast pile of 28mm figures and spray all of them en masse, so I can sit and enjoy painting their tiny faces and fingers at my leisure (and during work calls).
Nice to see you back! As I can't be bothered with spraying stuff, I use thinned down white Humbrol (who I think may have gone out of business) or Revell enamel for metal and Army Painter brush-on primer for resin, (I use 15mm mostly, so not much available in plastic). I read somewhere that it's a bad idea to use solvent-based paints on resin, but I have no idea if that's true. I like AK products (particularly their 'Diorama' range), but that primer looks rather more trouble than it's worth.
Thanks, and good to be back! Humbrol is still going (at least I saw a rack of humbrol paint in a shop the other day). I have heard a variety of things about resin, but like you say, I'm not sure what's true or an old wives tale..... will have to investigate!
@@FlyingRavenStudios I had some minis (resin vehicles) arrive today from Alternative Armies, and they came with a note on construction and painting; 'Do not prime our resin models with anything other than ACRYLIC spray paint (some solvents used in spray cans may affect the resin making paint degrade or fail to set)'. They also advise against the use of epoxy.
Ooooh thats interesting. Thanks!
Informative and interesting video 👍
I'm using this AK primer black for metalic colors on plane models exhaust. It works well.
I had issues with cleaning in beginning and AK thinner is expensive to use for cleaning. However cellulose thinner is very good substitute, but smells awful 😅😅
AK certainly makes a lot of high quality products and this looks like another home run. (-:
That said I'm probably not going to use it, simply because it's not acrylic based. I don't mind working with/spraying enamels or laquers, but I don't trust my both at home to 100% filter out enamels/laquers 100%, so better safe then sorry.
My go to primer is Ultimate Modelling Products.
I do own AK, GSW, Vallejo, Tamiya and MiG primers, and while I do use them, it's not my first or even second choice.
I haven't tried the Ultimate Modelling Products primers yet. Will have to take a look 👍
I reckon it's some kind of acrylic but with isoproponol and glycol ethers like Tamiya acrylic paint. It certainly smells very similar.
I know what you mean, so I emailed AK directly. They replied to say it is indeed a lacquer!
I love these AK primers so much :D Especially for large models. I can just keep pouring it into the cup of my airbrush and it never clogs and I don't have to thin more or anything, primed one huge beast with like 20 ml of this in one sitting without having to clean the tip of my airbrush :D
Also apparently they don't start to form chunks like acrylic based primers do over time. :D
One important thing to note is that while the grey one is very matte in finish, the black primer is very shiny :D I love using it as a base under metallic paints. :D Also love the white one, covers quite well for a white primer :)
They are more expensive but I especially like them for priming large miniatures where I applied some green stuff or such and wasn't able to deep clean it before priming because I feel like it just sticks better. :D
Yes it does stick to a model really well. Interesting point about the different finish between grey and black as well!
Acrylic primer chunks over time?
None that I have noticed so far. Although this is not an acrylic, but a lacquer.
Fine on warhammer model ? Lose details cuz of microfiller ?
Absolutely fine. Just keep the coats nice and thin and don't flood the detail as you would normally avoid doing. I find that for a warhammer model, one thin but even coat is absolutely fine to then paint on.
I've not used this myself yet but I've seen some scale model videos stating that this is a lacquer primer. but I cant state that as a fact was just what they claimed.
You are quite right! After this video, I got a reply from AK themselves confirming it is indeed a lacquer. I posted the reply on the community page if it is of interest
ah ok that's nice to know for sure. I'm going to buy some and try it out. Thanks@@FlyingRavenStudios
the aks realcolors ar truely amazing good ! :) i love them to airbrushing airplains. the primers ar good to need to bee thinned.
Thanks, I have been meaning to check out their real colour range. I will have to take a look!
I will be giving this stuff a pass, mainly because of the solvent and melting plastic issue... allergies are a factor here. Thanks for the information, saves me from trying it.
Glad I could help!