The problem with Ikigai
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- Опубликовано: 19 июн 2024
- If you're into personal development, you've probably seen the ikigai venn diagram. Ikigai is the Japanese word for 'life purpose,' or 'a reason for being,' but dig a little deeper and the ever-popular venn diagram starts to look a little suspicious...
We explore the origins of this diagram, what I dislike about it, and how we can gain a better understanding of Ikigai.
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TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro
00:52 Where does the ikigai venn diagram come from?
03:37 Is the ikigai diagram useful?
05:57 How do the Japanese think about ikigai?
08:25 Living with ikigai, right now
REFERENCES
- Ikigai Misunderstood and the Origin of the Ikigai Venn Diagram ikigaitribe.com/ikigai/ikigai...
- How to live to be 100+ • How to live to be 100+...
- Ikigai with Marc Winn • Ikigai with Marc Winn
- How I wrote The Little Book of Ikigai • How I wrote The Little...
- The true ikigai diagram • The true ikigai diagram
- Do you have 'ikigai'? • あなたは「生きがい」を持っていますか？茂木健... 
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This video should be called " the problem with the Venn Diagram" . I feel the title is misleading.
The original philosophy of ikigai is not about being paid financially. It speaks of reward, which can be financial (I think it's a consequence), but it can be any retribution for your gift. Money matters, but feeling useful, capable, fulfilled, seeing what you can bring to someone are also sources of intimate satisfaction and allow for a more fulfilled life. Once again westernizing a concept that is not of our culture!
W'duh, but your comment, per se (i.e. its ikigai as it were, not the message within it which, btw, I found well-written and in excellent working order 👍 ) , has an ominous feel (viz. a great disconnect within the Force).. insomuch actually, less than three minutes in (specifically 2:55) , and I've paused to state the following:
-
I sincerely hope he's not gonna harp on this financial aspect throughout the entire video; wish I could know now (benefit of doubt granted thinking surely he's not so dense) that which I'm about to invest several more minutes ascertaining. Therefore, should my optimistic approach fall flat and he was, in fact, snagged upon such a silly snafu, I pledge to return & spend an additional ten minutes (figuring such an unfortunate event unfold, it'll be well worth my time) stomping this guru-tuber to unsightly shitty bits and sophist smithereens.. now, that withstanding, I return my watching this video already in progress. 🎬
🪞ooks like somebody had a bitchy yesterday (funny, Ion't feel any different); I can say I'm not
@@nyrdybyrd1702Are you okay,??
look up 'retribution'
Using the term "westernizing" is a western concept within itself. Why put this silly label on getting inspired by other cultures like it has always been ?
The best video ever about the subject is the one which has the least amount of views. That’s the reason why people are always depressed.
I found my Ikigai when I lost everything
When you have nothing, you’ll think clearer and will be purpose driven
All of the distractions fade away and you’ll have a tunnel vision on what your ikigai could be
That was my experience and everytime I take steps in achieving my Ikigai, my heart burns with passion and can’t help but get all teary eyed because I know that I’m finally on the right track for once
Same experience
The Ikigai Venn Diagram seems more like a capitalistic interpretation of Ikigai when all Ikigai really seems to be is an amalgam of the things and experiences that shape your perception of meaning in the world - and all that comes down to is a feeling. It's not about "finding purpose", but rather understanding and appreciating what it is about the world that makes you move and feel alive.
This is something you can find anywhere, with anything - it doesn't need to be attached to a convoluted concept for your brain to try and wrap around. It's just something to be observed, maybe practiced in those mundane moments where you catch yourself mired in thought.
Ikigai is balance of life.
Well the diagram itself is just a pictured frame of each philosophical teachings of most chinese, japanese and buddhist means, its actually encompasses a much faster and fine tune way of living, since majority of stoics from western world, do not encompass money into their philosophies, almost no where you can find quotes from Epictetus, Seneca, Marcus aurelius and other men of their genre and philosophers that deals with money, the fundamentals of money, management of money or even embracing it to a degree, but mere virtues.
But these core principles shown in ikigai is a big part of it, right off the back we can turn to Confucius who says "he who does not economize, must agonize". So money is a must be apart of the ikigai, this is why atleast the diagram is in a large centrical part of it, this is also gives us a insight that also can be based on experience, especially men like us who have worked a broad amount of work, i worked construction and the pay was good, along with the work was very gratifying, i worked over 16 jobs and have decent to high paying jobs which was in reverse, some jobs paid really well, but the amount of distress and shame you get from it was so bad that you didnt want the money for doing it, and some the jobs were so good, even if i was paid very little i loved what i was doing and would rather ride it out with little money and more gratification than be a little higher in the bank account for it.
So the diagram is not for a novice or unbeknownst person to grasp, this is more of a senior way of thinking of the concepts, practices, principles and fundamentals, it is easy to understand, but difficult to get every section done. But it can be done. to live in true harmony with things, both teachings of ikigai a blend with being contempt yet making progress. To me, the best religious practices and philosophies come from the bible, and Buddhist, you have dualities between Christianity and Islam which is worth the looking into and mixing and matching what works and what doesn't, the same way you have parallel yet same teachings of Hindu and Buddhism, both follow the same flow and rhythm, some are merely simplified, others in a different turn, and yet to me, the bible on its own is a powerhouse book of wealth, knowledge and wisdom, but like Jim rhon states, no one man has all the answers. But good consensus, doesnt reject it but doesnt give a better formality or explanation.
In short, i think the Japanese commentators on the westernized version if it is such, is it barriers them in as one concept, but each have their respective realm of being separate, thats why the diagram, is confusing or doesnt fit into a single explanation, because it must be experienced in a different aspect. Much like the bible, the bible is not one book, but a series, of over 70 books, touching on different civilizations and different prophets with their own trial-masters, what worked for one, person, didnt work for another, a strength for one person, was a down fall for another. But a senior in this matter can see how it is useful, to formulate picturized version in their head if they already experienced each bracket or fundamental.
But Good stuff.
I absolutely love this James. I've always struggled with the concept of Ikigai, and stared at my diagram confused about how to put it together. I resonate so much more with how you see ikigai
Thanks Akta! Glad to hear it was helpful.
I think he is a cynic. I met many
I agree with you on the chicken nugget of self-help. I've always been skeptical about the ikigai concept, like it's a blanket "feel good" / positive psychology that isn't helpful at all
I think this guy analyzed this concept from all the wrong angles. It never said that youl be suffering if you can’t find your ikigai. I think his choice of words in this video may be sending the wrong message. And it’s not that difficult to find your ikigai. Plus finding your ikigai doesn’t magically makes your life transform.
It’s a concept that is designed to create a mental map that will guide people to a more satisfying life. The whole idea is for you to sit and think about what you love doing and pick out which one your good at , then figure out how the world can benefit from it, Then find a way to get paid or rewarded. (It doesn’t mean that it HAVE TO BE monetary rewards) And in doing so. It helps people to be more motivated. So the end goal of this concept is finding motivation. And last time I check if your unmotivated it doesn’t mean that your automatically under stress. And on the flip side finding your ikigai doesn’t just solve all of your life problems. But it can guide you to a more satisfying life. Just like how being unmotivated can lead to being in a state of misery. And the diagram can’t make you sad or feel bad about anything. The diagram doesn’t control how you receive the information it presents. So if your feeling bad after analyzing the diagram that’s on you.
Not at all. The point was to be more wary of self help bs.
@@larss4119 exactly
I agree. The author turned it upside down in a weird convoluted way and then made these "straw men claims" about the model being about either find your ikigai or live forever in misery.
As you said, if one is miserable from not getting a desired result from a mental model, that is totally on oneself.
Also he gets it wrong early on, already with the example about the grandmother supposed to receive a monetary reward from the baby.
He gets it wrong early on! I listened more and saw that I would need an essay on all the ways he missed the mark. I'm betting he's the kind of guy who thinks yoga is only about stretching.
But I do agree that his explanation for how the watered down version of ikigai is inadequate. Good job!
Finally someone talking about the fallacy of the ven diagram, been wondering about this for quite sometime, so informative, thank you.
The Ikigai we've come to know is more for finding your perfect job than your life purpose, hence the need to be paid for it.
It's still flawed for that as not everyone will find their passion or be able to be good at it, or be able to break into that industry for whatever reason.
It's best to just pick the best option and improve your situation over time as best as possible. Not everyone will achieve their ideal/perfection.
If I may add, even if the four venn diagram requirements meet to find the perfect job for oneself, there are no guarantees that one would be happy in that job, for example having to do the job for the money. People may like to do something because they believe what they do is priceless, but once they get a specific price for it, dissatisfaction could creep in.
I use it for finding a job. Even then, the team/management with whom I work can be a factor in selecting the job.
1) Do I like the work Yes
2) Am I good at it YES
3) Will it make others happy Yes
4) Will I get paid for it Yes
Is the work atmosphere, colleagues, management good No. So, this would fail Q1 where I like the work but not the colleagues. In other words, it involves extra work of working with the colleagues that I hate, so for the job under question, overall I don't like the work.
Thanks for this. Someone said try an Ikigai diagram and I immediately was called to say there is no way a Japanese person teaching ikigai said use this diagram. I’m glad I found your video that shows that it was an attempt by an American creator to explain their rationalization of the practice of engaging in the Japanese art of ikigai and not a cultural diagram phenomena that helps you live 100 years happily cuddling your great great great grandchildren. It’s nice to see there is a foundation or returning to the present and enduring the process of life through small, mindful, and joyful in playing in the practice of ikigai. But I’m grateful that I was able to see the source of the diagram is holistically a flaw to the path of discovering the ikigai and look forward to sharing this with others who may be confused or frustrated with the process.
I just finished reading that book and you too the exact words out of my mouth. Great video!
Thanks Hari! What's next on your reading list?
It serves more of a guide, since the application is relative to any different person.Its not absolute.
Thanks for this thoughtful video, I’m happy that I saw your take early into my exploration of the ikigai concept… new subscriber!
Thank you for stating the obvious, something I can never articulate, but sense. I am intrigued with the concept, have been studying for about a year, and will be presenting programs on Ikigai in the near future. I particularly enjoyed the "history" of the Venn diagram re Ikigai. If only life really worked that way for everyone who is not Bruce Springsteen.
I think we could use the word ikigai like a whole feeling of being live with all you do. Eventually everything’s gonna create that point tipping we need
You're getting really good at the editing! Great video.
Thanks Tommy!
just the video I was looking for, awesome work
Nice video, it definitely challenged my views on the ikigai as I'm actually a big fan of the ikigai. I was genuinely curious what the counter argument or what people didn't like about as there's a flip side to everything we believe in. So I found your video interesting. I do think people put a lot of emphasis on the "purpose" aspect of ikigai and I don't think ikigai is meant to be that perfect. I see ikigai personally as more of a self-discovery exercise - to learn more about myself and ask myself these things and see the connections. I feel like because people are looking for answers, they expect the ikigai to answer everything and I feel like it doesn't do that. With most diagrams or concepts, I take it with a grain of salt. I like ikigai because I find self-empowerment through learning about myself and understanding that I am bound to change but I learn about myself as who I am now. So Idk, I thought to share my thoughts as your video made me think about how harmful ikigai could be but at the same time, I have to wonder if part of that harmfulness is just expecting too much out of the ikigai itself? You understand yourself that life purpose is a complex thing, but for me even if I can learn more about myself, every little bit helps. Maybe I won't get answers right away, but that's ok.
I'm glad you found the ikigai diagram helpful! Using it like a self-discovery exercise is definitely the way to go.
I see people try the venn diagram, fail to find a perfect fit, then decide that because they don't have the perfect ikigai they shouldn't bother. Like you said, "[the] harmfulness is just expecting too much out of the ikigai itself"
Always hated the concept of Ikigai precisely because of the reasons you mentioned in the video. Loved this quote from Ken Mogi: "Every day is made up by connecting 100 small "Ikigai" throughout the day.
Dude Ken Mogi's channel is fire he's made 540 videos in the past 11 months
Hagen Daz ice cream, yes! and who doesn't love fried chicken? Simplifying concepts so they are available to a greater number of people is valuable. That is why the Ikigai venogram has gained so much acceptance. Finding purpose is at the core of the exercise and anything that helps people do that is useful.
I found this video looking up the audio book about imagine.
You just saved me three hours with a ten minute common sense analysis. I owe you a cup of coffee, thanks.
Still stuck in a bit of limbo, but I am happy here and I wrote down "purpose fallacy." It is so difficult, especially for a recovering overachiever like me, to disentangle my sense of worthiness and identity from perceived productivity and marketability, it's kinda ridiculous. And I do notice that anytime you find opinion leaders in society trying to encourage others to be people of impact and live out their lives in a meaningful way, it only shows up in a capitalist model, where they are selling something. Be a coach, be a mentor, write a bestseller. There is no room for a quiet life untouched by fame or consumerism. Funny thing is, truly the most important, impactful thing we can do with our lives is love well. Idk the data, but I would guess most great leaders had loving mothers and were emotionally prepared to pick good partners, both personally and professionally. Same time, poverty is truly a powerful way to derail an otherwise decent life with fair prospects. Anyway. Thanks!
About *ikaigai... imagine that! Lol
Just what i was thinking as soon as i began putting my interests on the chart. Ikigai is a helpful concept that can help you modify your expectations of your areas of interest or that can make you self conscious about your place in all these areas. And now, do the dynamics within those specific areas have to always stay the same? Can a human mind ever stay the same? Probably the answer to both of these questions is the same. You can figure out a way how can something you love that doesn't seem profitable can make you money, you can find out that if you can analyze the problems and split them into pieces and work on them, you can actually love some of the areas that you have put into any other category but the loved ones. Or simply because it seems like the world doesn't need something, it doesn't mean you don't. Maybe what you call as beneficial to world is profoundly in relation with what you do for your own world.
It’s a beautiful video and it just made my day
idk if you plan on coming back to yt, but i believe these types of videos are very necessary and you have done it well
BI really enjoy you video! Brilliant!! Thank you a lot!
Don't let people talk you out of money. It's abundant if managed correctly. Sorry, I'm pushing 60 and all anyone wants to do is keep money from you. I'd rather be in charge of finances myself, because people use it to control you. So yes I believe I can't be happy till I'm more in control. Sorry, but this diagram makes sense. If you aren't making a significant difference, you are being used.
Thank You James, your analysis is very useful!
This dude always sees a problem in every solution
Loved this! Thanks, James :-)
Glad you enjoyed it!
I agree that the Venn diagram doesn't match the actual concept of ikigai. But I don't think it's a problem to feel bad about yourself, cause it drives you to get to a place where you feel good instead. You obviously shouldn't be feeling bad forever, but it takes time.
I strongly believe that you can find something that overlaps with everything. For me it's making music. I might not be making enough to live off of it right now, but I know that the more time I invest in it, the bigger my reward is eventually going to be.
Even if your reward never materializes it does not mean what you did and still doing is a bad thing. The problem with the diagram is it took a complicated idea that your suppose to ponder and turned it into an American simplistic power point slide. Which has probably confused more people than ever helped understand. Also the get paid is a western idea of anyone can be rich peddled nonsense.
Thank you James for a thoughtful, insightful and interesting consideration of Ikigai, especially the origin of the Venn diagram. When I was looking for a good book on the subject, I intuitively chose Ken Mogi’s book, and am glad that I did. Having seen your YT video, I will re-read Ken Mogi 🙏🏽
Thanks Rex, maybe I'll give it a re-read too
Wow! I just stumbled upon your video. Not only that you have a beautiful setup and lightning (I like it soooo much, the colors in the background and how you setup the light on your face). The way you are talking and acting towards me as the audience cought me. I really like listening to you! I can understand you (as a foreigner) very well. And I like the litte fun sequences, makes me really smile. And then: Thanks for sharing your valuable thoughts regarding ikigai, it's helpful.
Thank you so much Wiebke! Made my day :)
@@JamesStuber My pleasure :) ♥
I am die hard tennis lover but in another profession and your words just nailed me...I was hearing about ikigai for last 1-2 days 😂😂
I think the philosophy of ikigai is helping more people then your blog and resentment for not having a job.
Thanks! Just what i needed. )
Love this take James. I much prefer the version of ikigai you shared.
There's so many different approaches to life and that's awesome!
Interesting video. I found the diagram by accident and immediately thought that it's great idea. While still a student, it gave me a sign, that maybe chemistry will be suitable for me: I like it, I think world needs scientists of all professions, it's quite good paid but I'm not particularly good at it. So diagram gave me impulse to work harder. That with hard work I can achieve ikigai.
But then the other thoughts came - what if don't succeed, what are the other options and so on. Now I see that I should aim for the middle but enjoy all of it
Good insights! The diagram can help point the way but too much obsession with it can lead to missing the bigger picture
Whoops. My bad for my above criticisms. I didn't realize his handicap. He literally wrote in his RUclips description that he suffers "from an excessive dose of rationalism". You got this, Bro!
The Venn diagram sections about "getting paid" and "what the world needs" are synonyms, if we're trying to use this diagram to help people find a job that makes them happier. Unless they can afford to work for free, that is. So only three circles are needed.
Some people get paid to do things the world doesn’t actually need, like pet rocks. And the world needs things that you can’t get paid for like volunteering
@@SimPilotMikaFair points, although the line between "needs" and "wants" is subjective, once we move past basic needs. And I did put in a disclaimer for working for free.
@@richatlarge462 oh sorry I didn’t see that, I have ADHD and I tend to skim everything I read
I like your perspective!!
Thanks David! Your videos are great
@@JamesStuber Thanks James! Looking forward to your next ones! :)
Tell me you don't get Ikigai without saying you don't get Ikigai.
This guy: "Where's the overlap? I'm waiting for my overlap..."
I wanna learn more about ikigai and ofcourse this would be the type of video i go to first. 😋The critics first and then the real deal... I do agree with you, though. It's good for guidance but not to be taken as the only valid thing. We can't let a freakin diagram make us feel bad.
Great video, the Ikigai diagram was assigned in my sociology capstone class and it felt very pointless
Where does your notion of, "make you feel" come from. Perhaps that source, or resource, is what anyone's version of IKIGAI is grounded in...your ability, choice and opportunity to take anything and make it anything you want.
“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't...you're right.” - Henry Ford
Yes and no. In order to make a good burrito, you still need to know which exactly ingredients to put inside and in which amount. And do you even have the circumstances to make a burrito. And I think this is the problem that this diagram is trying to solve. And it might not work for ALL people (nothing can work for all people), I believe it can work for many. And I agree with many comments about the "getting paid" part - I believe this is not necessarily money (obviously you need to survive somehow), but also it needs to give you something back so you have the reward/motivation to keep on going.
So do you have any suggestion better than ikigai?
Appreciate and live your experience without needed to squeeze everything into some magical overlap. Be okay with doing things you love and not getting paid, or getting paid for things you don't necessarily love.
Ikigai is great if the overlap is obvious to you. But if it's not, searching for an overlap that's not there can hold you back from taking action
Ikigai never talks about getting paid. Never.
In short, looks to be as just saying to have peace in all of those things, but keep the circles separate not having them merge in one concept.
This was a very good and interesting video.
Being intuned to watever u do in life...
Good video.
You are so funny 😂 it makes sense. Thanks for letting know.
I think Ikagi is a theoretical concept on how to feel good. It can change depending on your opinion of purpose. Thus it's just a basic guide to loosely follow.
I think you misinterpreted a lot of things here. For me, Finding your Ikigai is finding a deep meaningful aspect that you bring into your life so al of the things from the diagram are present. You will experience passion, calling, mission and a deep feeling of fulfillment. And then these 5 things from the book you are referring to, will be implemented so much easier in your life. For me that is what Ikigai is all about. It is an abstract aspect. Not a strict word, action or profession. ❤ ps thank you for sharing that the diagram is not originally Japanese. I never knew that and will adjust my talk about Ikigai on this part.
Truth.
thought you’d pull that barbell off the rack and smack the venn diagram with it!
🏋️♂️😠👊💥🤣
I disagree. This version of Ikigai is an advanced form of time management and multitasking. It’s one of the best of not the best route to take.
Imagine you hate your sales job but you’re good at it so it pays well.
You clock out at the end of the week.
You just completed 40 hours.
- Are you fulfilled? No
- Did you make the world a better place? Probably not
Now you have to go spend the weekend doing your favorite hobby and relaxing just so you can forget about the fact that you have to go back on Monday for another 40 hours.
If you’re conscious / selfless you’ll go volunteer your time at your local community shelter. (Gotta make the world a better place)
This week you just spent:
- 40 hours at work
- 12 hours relaxing / hobbies
- 6 hours volunteering
That’s a total of 58 hours. You could’ve accomplished the same results with only 40 hours.
If you are creative, resourceful and tenacious enough you can find and excel at your dream job that helps people and / or the environment.
If you can get paid well for doing what you love because you’re good at what you do and make the world a better place… that’s a 4-in-1
Talk about multi-tasking!
Even if you only get 2 out of 4, that’s still better than no overlap.
Finding overlap is only hard if you have the wrong mindset.
Even if you never get all 4, the progress towards one day achieving this possibility should bring you joy, it’s not just the destination it’s the journey.
The idea of ikygai is to find the sweet spot in one's life. you overthinking it.
Why is getting paid financial wealth when the old lady gets paid in the long term when her great grandchildren respect her name
This was a good video. I like the part where you mention Mogi-San. I think the west completely misinterprets stuff like this.
like your way of critical thinking
slurping coffee? no no
I have a little book of ikigai but it has nothing to do with the Venn diagram described by that white dude about getting paid and stuff. So weird!
Pozdro UZ
And you have the RUclips Syndrom of finding problems and contesting anything to make content and views. This type of diagram is used in many fields industrial design and marketing, in sustainable development...maths. This I a simple geometric representation of concepts with variants and elements. If the diagram gets you so frustrated, talk about the bottom and foundation of the IKIGAÏ philosophy and forget about the dam "diagram "....we could challenge anything using this nano point of view of sticking on a simple visual rather than the concept.
Pay doesn’t equal money.
The conclusion is... the world of self help is full of toxic people. You gotta get your grind on. If you don't you're lazy and weak. You need that big body and that eighty dollars t-shirt and a big house. You need that p h d you need a title to make you big to make you relevant. It all but belittle's the man who just wants to Milk his cow and be with his family. Now I know why that diagram has always not set well with me. fantastic video.
Why don't you create a helpful diagram
Not everyone can find ikigai.
thanks for your great video!
thanks for watching!
I think this criticism is both shallow and pedantic. Yes, the concept of Ikigai has a wide description, but you yourself committed a fallacy in your criticism. If I have A, then I have B does not conclude if I don’t have A then I don’t have B. I would also challenge you to describe a meaningful difference between “overlap” and “combination”.
Brother you are reaching and your arguments are based on your created assumptions. No one says that one principle, religion or philosophy fit everyone or every circumstance. IKIGAI, Like other tools is just a way NOT THE ONLY WAY! " If you cant find Ikigai you cant find purpose? " Who said that one? There is a saying "One man has the right to express his Truth and another, the right to knock it down for it! "
Interesting video but way too much overthinking on your part.
all I do is overthink
"Overthinking: the art of creating new problems out of ones that never existed in the first place."
Anonymous
Hahahahaha…
Lol 🤣😂
How do your teeth stay together when you talk?
4:00
I hate this books cause this books are always on the edge of pseudoscience bullshit and wanna be phillosophist
There is very less actual psycology
And scientific ways of finding good mental state
Like its very astrology like
You should do more research on Ikigai. The way you are potraying it is through the lens of a westerner. Very poorly done.
Can you share resources with a Japanese perspective? I attempted to incorporate a Japanese lens by looking at Ken Mogi’s work and reading Japanese articles about ikigai. Of course at the end of the day I am a westerner.
Hopefully after two years you now understand what is ikigai and stop making cheap videos about things you don't understand at all! 😂
This video is absolutely wack.....