an Autistic's take on your 'aita' scenarios
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- Опубликовано: 18 дек 2023
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Oh man, your presence online is so valuable. My brain works very similarly to yours but I have problems with verbal articulation. I wish I could speak to people and give advice like this. I’m actually very good at seeing things from all sides but don’t know what to do with that in a productive professional way.
My mom is the same way. I wish I could find someone else I could talk to the way I can talk to my mom. She’s so objective and gives the best advice.
I also agree that there is rarely a good guy or bad guy. I always take into consideration the other person’s circumstances. I dislike when people are called “evil” or a “monster”. Like, there’s a reason for that. Autistics are know for black and white thinking, but for me, everything is gray.
I honestly think the whole "autistics have black and white thinking" claim is likely a result of the ol' double empathy problem, or something like that. Cuz I, and -- as far as I can tell based on real world interactions and online forums -- a significant amount of other autistic people seem to have incredibly nuanced grey thinking patterns. Far more than a significant amount of neurotypicals, who often come off as having black and white thinking to me (or at least "underdeveloped" thinking that doesn't consider and account for all potential factors.)
Maybe our strong sense of (in)justice and passionate opinions (which are ironically often strengthened by nuanced "overthinking"), when filtered through our social difficulties (especially in direct live conversation where people keep interrupting and pushing back before giving us a chance to fully elaborate) is a major driver of this (mis?)conception.
It's frustrating because "lacks empathy" and "black and white thinking" are the supposed major symptoms which made me disregard the possibility of me being autistic throughout my teenage years and 20s despite knowing something was "off" with me.
(Likewise with ADHD -- it was always framed mostly as trouble focusing. And so I figured I couldn't possibly have it since I would hyperfixate on reading books or playing video games for hours upon hours and struggled to pull myself away. So...attention deficit? No way, if anything my focus was too strong...assuming it was something I was interested in or otherwise anxious about. But no one ever framed it with that extra context and nuance.)
Ditto!! I really enjoyed your takes on these Irene! 🫶🏻 🎉 👏🏻 I see mostly in the grey and it's hard to articulate in a way that folks see as a value add. Often it just translates as perseverating, or making things difficult. Which it can turn into, don't get me wrong ha! But I think the grey is valuable.
apparently another trait of autism is nuance black and white thinking, in which situations are either given all the nuance or no nuance, which I realise I now struggle with
If you really wish to develop the ability to speak your thoughts, this is something that can be trained. I had the same issue and trained myself the hard way with jumping into public presentations, discussion etc. but there are better more gentle ways that may work better for us NDs. Online workshops in speech holding, rhetorics, art of storytelling, improvised stand up comedy, poetry presentations , singing in public, etc starting in a safe space is maybe crucial. 🎉
I feel this exact same way. I never have the right words to say to people and it’s the worst feeling. Or I don’t know how to explain how I’m feeling to others.
I’m so bad at communicating my needs because I feel like people are going to reject me and think I’m dumb. I’m just always so ready to defend myself. And it shouldn’t be that way. Because of all my negative experiences with people, family etc.
This is why I struggle too because when it comes up I'm usually already overwhelmed. And then I start thinking about how I'll have to defend myself. And it seems like too much.
So many people too will just not understand even if you're clear. And repeating myself seems overwhelming as well. And also sometimes they just try to find ways to push that boundary a little. Like someone saying we'd be good roommates. And me saying I don't like living with others. Instead of going okay they say "well the offer is always there if you change your mind." Or "well what if we had a big place? Or what if I promise to do xyz?" Or questioning my feelings on it. And then I'm getting overwhelmed and snappy because I already said how I feel and I wasn't trying to start a 4 hour long discussion on the topic. I was trying to shut it down completely.
Same it seems easier to not communicate but that’s not healthy so it’s like I’m screwed either way and I try not to be so negative I just usually know how people react and that hurts sometimes. But partially my fault for not communicating.
Same, i dont talk much bc of that, even to my partner, i prefer to not think about my issues and i do forget about them, its a way to avoid conflicts, but i think it will be more difficult for me when i will have a job...
I understand hun, I wish my memory was like that but my memory is way tooo vivid and I remember everything.
Yeah I can be v honest but when it comes to what I know people will not accept I just cannot communicate what’s on my mind or my needs but I would like to be better
I'm AuDHD and I find it incredibly difficult to communicate my needs and boundaries effectively. It all makes logical, reasonable sense in my head, but when I start trying to explain it I either lose the point in trying to overexplain why it is important or I end up being so blunt that I come off as a selfish prick who thinks everyone else should just cater to my needs.
A lot of the time, I'm not asking for anything big. It's stuff like sometimes I get overestimulated, and I need to just go and be alone with my dog so I can regain a sense of control and stability. I can write that out fine, but it never manages to leave my mouth that way.
I hear ya 😢
This is so me!! idk why it's like that :(
Like in your head it makes sense and also when you transact those thoughts on paper or type it on a device it's fine, but trying to verbalize those thoughts... nothing is coming out the way you wanted it to 🥲
I'm an autistic person who's addicted to reading these type of threads. It reminds me how I just don't understand people at all. Somehow I also end up feeling empathy that recognising abuse seems to be hard for NT people too. It's not just me/us.
I do get uncomfortable at how harsh people are. Especially on reddit, there's a lot of negative comments about women who "don't work". That's led me into negative spirals before because, like a lot of autistic people, I'm long term unemployed. I still work incredibly hard at home but it's hard to recognise that I shouldn't internalise shitty people's comments online.
Thanks for talking about this and sharing, I enjoy your content and vulnerability. As a late diagnosed person it gives me a lot of insight into how I used to be vs what I can allow space for now.
Sorry if I’m misinterpreting here, but I find it strange that you didn’t know NT people would find abuse difficult. Abuse is abuse, it’s never easy…
@@magicalgirl4 no, of course I know that. But you know there's that thing about being unable to read people's intentions or know when you're being manipulated... I was told often that I should have known what kind of person I was dealing with (I missed some blatant things). I just didn't know, I thought they were nice and suddenly they were being violent. For example, it's really common for young autistic people and girls to be groomed and just not be able to speak about that abuse to people who could stop it. We tend to accept it because we trust adults. It's a huge problem, and now that I am an adult I can see that it's not unique to me, but growing up it didn't feel like anyone else was having these problems. The extent and ages may be different, these were super painful experiences that made me wary of relationships in general.
Of course I am aware that NT people can be abused too, I just assumed that they knew the signs better than me. That's what surprised me.
i love the idea of setting boundaries as a kindness both for yourself and others, because you are showing them how to love you in the ways you need, and trusting them to listen to you
"A lot of the time there is not a bad guy" is such a great take on so many situations. ofc sometimes there is, but those are not usually as nuanced of circumstances as the ones that you shared. Thank you! Just found your channel and I'm so glad! aita is one of my favorite subreddits, so having a sane take that's so insightful is super helpful.
Lately I've noticed NT'S but mostly narcissists ,will confuse boundries with basically shutting me down. If they don't like what Im saying or being, they will say I'm overstepping their boundries that they never even told me about before then. Im so over navigating people.Thanks for your vids, they help.
having a narcissist as a partner for the last 4 years is what made me finally realize I have autism LMAO. he tried to get out of bad behavior by saying he might be autistic. he talked to his brother who's a teacher behind my back about it which was so weird to me bc I have been in therapy for 20+ years and I would love to help him bc I loved him. he refused to get help. I started to look into it more and I realized he's not autistic. he's a narcissist. and if anyone is autistic, it's me. bc I realized I couldn't understand so much of what was going on. I broke up with him on Jan 2nd this year and I'm 32. I was diagnosed with ADHD years ago and PTSD too. but autism makes so much more sense now. I'm not trying to put people with NPD down at all. it's just interesting to me bc I'm ND lol
I feel like as autistic persons we want to do everything right which results in trying to be the most objective possible. But we don't have to, we can make bad decisions, try risky things, choose whom we want to have close friendships with regardless if they are good or bad people, if we know them or not. I always remember myself that I don't know everything and that I shouldn't be expected to. Because eventually by always doing things that feel forced look at all this time you spend on them. Sometimes you can't, sometimes you make it worse, and it's hard because there is other people's well-being at the end of the line sometimes. But I'm flawed and I also don't feel quite right and I don't want to rush. Also maybe I'm not a good person maybe I'm very bad but I mean veery bad and what? You're not alone, you don't need to do it all yourself. I think at least for me I know I feel responsible in part because I have a low sense of self. So remember there are people out there wanting to help you just as much as you want to help everyone else because you're as valuable to them: strangers, family, friends and Moore... Try to do things that make you feel you, try to choose the things you want to do, trust that you will do the right thing. Have a nice holiday 💚❤️
Hi! I’m the person from the first story!
I really appreciate the comment about there being no bad guy. I have never ever seen them as the bad guy so my brain automatically made them made ME the bad guy. I do want to add that I find it really hard to communicate my needs until after they’ve been crossed because it’s hard for me to anticipate them. Maybe this is just me but I don’t know what I would have had to have to communicated to them before they cleaned my place other than “please don’t clean my apartment for me” which sounds oddly specific and is honestly something I would never just think of if it had never happened before (which it hadn’t) if you get what I mean. I really like the way you phrased “opportunity for consent” but at the time especially because of the place I was in mentally I just sat back in complete shock. On a good day I struggle with confrontation unless it’s absolutely black and white “bad” (which there are very few things that are) or it concerns someone else. I don’t know my limits until I cross them and even then I struggle to fully understand what I am thinking and feeling about a situation until after it has happened. Thank you for being so constructive Irene! It is rare that I am faced with constructive comments that don’t trigger my RSD so thank you!!!!! You are amazing♥️
Your story resonated with me a lot and I've been through almost the exact same thing (at different ages, with different people). You can't control how people receive your boundaries. The unfortunate fact is that many people do take it personally and sometimes they do reject us because of boundaries they don't understand or empathise with.
To offer a slightly different perspective from the video, it's ok to say it once and then not want to discuss it further. People should be more conscious of how they affect autistic people, I personally do not think that's something for us to take on. You do enough and you're a good friend.
@@mmhmmmificate That is such a beautiful thing to say! thank you. It makes me happy knowing I'm not the only one who has had difficulty with this!!!!
hey though, sorry she was kinda victim blaming with "you let them do it" and siding with them a little too much with that generous interpretation of "I can't stand this anymore I'm cleaning your house" which is more like "if you won't do it I will" kind of angry and guilt tripping.
I've been in the exact scenario and can't "say they were a good person" they were my friends white supremacist friend who also "couldn't stand it anymore " but it turns out it's bc he thinks"we're better than this " not that he's"doing me a favor"
It also sounds like they didn't clearly ask for your consent to clean your house, they just informed you as their way of seeking consent. Which, if you're already overwhelmed by that suddenly being sprung on you, can be very hard to recognize as a request, so the miscommunication is made more difficult, and the stress of not knowing how to respond can really cause one to freeze
I was thinking about this a lot yesterday.
Regarding people sharing something difficult about their lives, or maybe expressing something in a way that isn't ideal for the person they're interacting with, I'm really not a fan of people reacting with aversion and the application of broad generalisations that easily allow for the removal of context while painting a person in an implicitly bad light [ie 'trauma-dumping', 'selfish', 'self-centered', 'inconsiderate' , even serious clinical terms like 'narcissistic', if someone really wants to go hard]. Particularly if there is a basis of friendship that already exists.
A few years ago, I was out with someone I considered to be a friend, an ally. We were in the same friend group. I thought we had a lot of similar experiences, so there was a basis for shared understanding between us. I was already aware of some of the challenges she was facing in life. I also knew that I was the sort of person who never really brought up their own struggles, and I always made an effort to show up as a positive, stable presence for others, particularly if I saw them as friends. I wanted to share a more vulnerable part of my life with this person, to show that they weren't alone and to give them more insight into me as a person. They didn't say much at the time, and they didn't have much to do with me in a direct way afterwards. However, I always got the sense that they were planting negative ideas about me with others, as if the one time I let on that I had my own struggles was a sign that I was an uncaring, self-centered person. Maybe I did misjudge the time and place, maybe I did misjudge the capacity of the person I was speaking with. But I think that individual's reaction to my vulnerability said at least as much about them and what they were hoping to get out of our connection as it did about who I am as a person.
I think that for a lot of us who have had to approach relationships as something that needs to be navigated by us, not ever to be taken for granted, we're very quick to take on the burden of an interaction not going well when it may not be entirely reasonable or necessary for us to do so.
Sometimes friends aren't who we thought they were. Sometimes people aren't prepared to show up with us in a way we need, or in a way that might be beneficial for all involved. Okay. That's alright. That doesn't mean that we aren't going to keep working towards prioritising the creation of spaces for ourselves where we are closer to our own ideals, where our needs are met.
Thank you for this, Irene. I really appreciate you opening up these sorts of discussions. Sometimes that's all we really need, a space to explore our shared humanity without fear.
🌹
So true
I've had this exact sort of issue. I think therapy speak being used by more than just actual therapists and those who understand it enough to use it has become a problem and especially for younger people around my age. I love to learn about mental illness and autism is my special interest, my problem isn't with everyone using therapy speak as i believe its good to learn new words and information about ourselves and our brains and mental health but a lot of it has lost quite a lot of its meaning. people use boundaries and trauma-dumping incorrectly to an extreme and use it as a reason to deem you a bad and selfish person because you didn't realise that you were talking about something sensitive to someone who doesn't want to hear or can't hear it because of their own struggles even if they didn't tell you that they don't want to hear it or even encouraged you to open up to them. we shouldn't discourage people from lightening their load by talking about their bad day they had a few days ago by saying they're trauma dumping and that this must mean they only want to talk about themselves. those who talk a lot about their struggles in depth need help and probably can't access it but we call them selfish and they become too scared to talk to people or even want to socialise at all because they are scared they will talk too much about themselves. what happened to 'that sounds like a lot but im struggling at the moment too so its difficult for me to think or talk about these sorts of things, do you want to do this with me instead?' .A lot of people don't want a real person who has good and bad days, some bad judgements and some good ones they only want a perfect, good person 100% of the time when that simply doesn't exist. not one human can only choose the 'good' options in every situation but we can start by forgiving those who do make those bad options and decisions because everybody has them.
The last one, I think, 'I don't feel like I'm qualified or ready to deal with this situation' is a good statement to use.
That is a good one! I hope I can remember it the next time a situation that calls for it arises.
I usually try this sentence and people feel very brushed off and then ignore me bc I can't handle to hear them as if indidnt care when THEY needed to
I love your videos! For the second person who was being asked uncomfortable questions, I learned to respond, "Why do you want to know?" This is a powerful way to steer the conversation back into your control. In fact, whenever you are asked a question that you don't like, ask any question in return.
Yes I thought the same, "why are you asking this question?" If they happen to respond in a way that feels genuine you can maybe let your guard down but if they are sheepish or defensive
you know it probably wasn't the best intentions.
I've been in the same boat. Used to strongly dislike people asking me stuff like that, and didn't know how to respond. Nowadays I just deflect when I'm put on the spot. I give off an aura of benign curiosity, while still able to stand my ground in case they become antagonistic.
Just heard part of your video, paused, and wrote a message to a friend communicating clearly how she could support me better when we talk. And now I'm back to hear the rest! So Thank YOU! I had been meaning to do that. 💖
I'm happiest when most away. I gave my family the chance to understand me many times. It doesn't help that my parents have narcissistic traits. I'm only taken seriously when I become taciturn or go completely silent. I'm tired of them choosing not to understand me over maintaining to understand me. Even if I told my parents I was autistic, they wouldn't believe it, because their religious beliefs would deny that their child could be "afflicted" with anything other than "normal" in their eyes. It shows what little faith they have, in me and themselves too. I stopped going to family gatherings; I was tired of hearing the sycophantic posturing and false modesty from my parents when I knew at home they were different for all the wrong reasons.
When I'm alone, in my element, I'm happy. When I'm in the company of pretenders who give me counterfeit love and unconditional love to select others, I'm miserable. The empath in me just shuts down from the lies and cruel behavior. Expressing the way they affect me is met with gaslighting and defensive, manipulative responses. What I hate most of all is when I try to get my point across, for example, but my father makes me laugh, intentionally derailing the conversation and ignoring what is wrong. Tactics like this keep them in control, but not really.
They are stuck in their ways, refusing to see the cycle they perpetuate. One time when I got a new job, my mother didn't even care. They live off of the drama at work rather than the work that's making a difference. Rather than be happy for me, they have to make it about them if they choose to acknowledge or celebrate. It's the superficial conversations and vicarious look-at-my-son and that's-my-son, holier-than-thou words and actions that turn me off. I see what they blatantly refuse and fail to see. Instead of making myself miserable, I choose to make myself happy by choosing what and who I receive and keep in my life.
Irene, i just want to say finding your channel was one of the best things that happened for me this year. (And your hair gives me Jade West vibes 🖤)
Like Billy Joel says in Vienna “You can see when you’re wrong though you can’t always see when you’re right”
I would say a that we all need to be more proactive rather than reactive with our communication, which is what I think you’re communicating in this video
These are very important videos and thank you for bringing up these discussions!
Im glad you offered a "no one is the bad guy" on the first one bc I have been both people.
On one hand ~ living in disorganization, and its affecting others to the point of frustration till they do it for me & I feel infantilized, shamed, etc.
AND living with other ND people and being soooooooooo overwhelmed by the shared space & NEEDING to change the environment before I start spiraling into a meltdown over it.
ND communication, alexithymia, and trauma can easily get you into situations like this. No one is trying to hurt the other, but harm is done nonetheless ~ often without clear understanding on how or what really happened until extensive processing after the fact.
Just shows how important radical kindness is.
That first story was legitimately triggering for me. I have tons of trauma from situations like that, and if I were in the same position, I would also have broken down. I can't even watch those videos of people going around cleaning other people's houses because it sends me into fight or flight, and I just get angry at the person cleaning.
I've been dealing with harboring resentment lately, especially towards loved ones but this is the first video I've watched of yours in a while, and it's made me remember that I need to be more assertive boundary-wise and kind of break out of the people-pleasing --> resentment patterns that I've fallen back into for the past 6 ish months,
Hello fellow Bay Area Asian! Love your content this resonates with me so much
I think that being older and further down the road, you touched on something younger ND’s are figuring out: agency and self-advocacy
We are so used to people-pleasing to get along with others that a lot of times, we cease to recognize the affect it has on people who do genuinely want to understand and connect with us. There is a level of unintentional deception that comes with not communicating our needs and an obligation we have to ourselves to at least be able to articulate them. Even if there’s a degree of learned helplessness, we are not exempt from this, especially in the course of maintaining intimate relationships
Keep up the good work 💜
I love this, thank you! I am doing therapy for a few years now and I am able to say "no" finally - but I always feel this guilt, even though I was just setting a boundary. I am so used to thinking that I am the bad guy, that I never took my own thoughts into consideration...to whoever struggles with it - please remember to respect and love yourself :) and apologize only once you are sure that you were wrong or if you unintentionally hurt someone by being blunt
I always admire how well you can articulate, especially the boundary at 21:34. Also, I spy Disney backpacks ;)
Thanks for the thought-provoking video! The one about the other person starting to talk about her family issues feels really relatable to me. I used to work in retail, and several times had customers who would suddenly start telling me very personal things (like how their daughter was married to a drug abuser and they were raising their granddaughter because the parents were both not able to parent the kid) when I was...helping them pick out a CD to buy or something. I think some people have nobody to talk to, and will talk to anybody who seems friendly and willing to listen, even if that person isn't that close to them.
From the wording of that story, it feels to me like OP was less of a close friend to this person and more of an acquaintance who occasionally chatted, so having personal life stuff enter the conversation struck OP as sharing more than they expected. Many of us are great at masking, and I have no idea if OP is one of them, but it's possible they're like me and default to fawning/conflict avoidance in social situations, so perhaps the person then thought they were closer friends than OP felt they were. Conflict avoidance often means not mentioning it if I'm uncomfy in a conversation, and it sounds very much like OP was uncomfy and just hoping it would be a one-time thing the first time. When it was a repeated thing, they were uncomfy enough they felt the need to say something. Meanwhile, the other person didn't get any push back last time they started talking about their family troubles, so they were caught off-guard and hurt that "suddenly" OP was bothered to hear about it.
That's my read on how it was worded, with a whole lot of speculation in there. I think with how we often mask at work, coworkers come to think of themselves as good friends with us even if we're just maintaining the facade of being that close or comfortable. And we can maintain the friendly facade if it stays to surface level casual conversation (both being writers, computer trouble were things OP was prepared to hear and expecting to hear), but if people start feeling comfortable enough to share personal stuff, we may not know what to do with that. I frequently don't know if someone venting wants advice or just wants somebody to lend a sympathetic ear.
Personally, if it had been me, I probably would've done the same as OP and not said anything the first time because hopefully it was just a passing thing, and I can mask and shove my discomfort down for a one-time thing. I know that isn't the "right" thing to do to communicate clearly and let people know I have boundaries, but usually I'd rather be uncomfortable than risk a confrontation (which I find incredibly upsetting.) I don't think it's OP's fault they weren't comfortable/confident enough to speak up and draw a boundary line the first time, and it's certainly not their fault that they were uncomfortable hearing about personal issues. The other person wasn't wrong to come to them with struggles, but the way they went about it didn't give OP any chance to consent to lending an ear. To be fair, I can see how the other person might have been hurt, even though to OP they're the one who came out of nowhere with super personal stuff without any invitation to do so.
I guess the TL;DR is, to me it's clear that miscommunication is the real asshole here, with a side of conflict avoidance and masking. The assessment of the whole thing kind of made it sound like OP was the jerk for not being patient and kind and sympathetic despite their own discomfort, though. They could definitely have worded it better then "I didn't ask to hear about your problems", I agree, but they're also not obligated to listen to other person's stories that make them so uncomfortable if they don't want to. There's being supportive of somebody struggling, and then there's tossing your own boundaries and well-being to the wayside in order to do so, and it can be really hard to figure out where to draw that line (and even harder to draw it bright enough others can see it, too.)
I've had people label me as the supportive, eternally patient friend many times over the years, when I was actually just never mentioning when I was uncomfortable or annoyed. One time a whole group of people noted how I was great at being the supportive, even, grounding force to help a nice, but very chaotic friend of theirs, and they went on about how "If I could be that person for her, that was so great." I had already been overwhelmed just doing the one event (stage managing a show) with her, and basically ran the other way after that one night because I just could not take on being anybody's rock. It wasn't that I disliked her, or wasn't sympathetic to the chaotic flurry of activity that was her life, but I immediately recognized that I was already overwhelmed with the entire situation, including the social part, and this was far before I knew anything about autism. I hardly knew any of these people, either-I met most of them the night of the show.
There's my two (fifty?) cents. Sorry for the essay. I really enjoy and appreciate your videos, and I hope this doesn't come across as critical of you or anything. It's not, I just think I relate to OP too much, and if an acquaintance suddenly pivoted from talking about computer issues to telling me about their family or marital or mental health troubles in detail without warning, I'd be uncomfortable, too. Not saying I'd shame them for telling me that stuff. More likely I'd hide my own discomfort, prioritize their comfort, and listen even though I was not prepared to listen and wouldn't be qualified to help.
Encouraging people to communicate their needs and setting gentle boundaries is the best take. Im a 33yo Audhder I still struggle with conflict avoidance with my loved ones, but slowly practicing! Thanks as always for the insightful video!
I really love how you equaled out the field here! I agree that usually no one is JUST being an ass
I understand needing to voice your boundaries first, but how do i deal with people who dismiss any boundary i share and actively makes me feel bad for sharing said boundary. My friends around me understand my needs and I didn't need to voice it in a clinical sense like with setting boundaries with a toxic person. I guess i need help approaching people like that with my needs.
This is just my opinion, but fwiw, if you have expressed a boundary and the person/people ignore it and continue to step over it, they are showing you that they do not care about your feelings or well-being. Like yes, you need to communicate what you need, and that's on you. But if this is a friend or family member - someone who supposedly cares about you - there should be an expectation that they will not do things that are actively distressing or hurtful to you. If you have laid it out and they do it anyway, they are saying they don't care how you feel, and they will not accommodate you. You can't make anyone do anything, so your choice is not about getting them to respect your boundaries. Your choice is if you will participate with people who don't respect your boundaries or not. For me, it would be a no, I do not. If someone doesn't care about my well-being, I am not going to make space in my life for that person any longer. Obviously, there's nuance depending on the relationship and circumstances, but they are showing you where you rank with them. It's best to believe what they're demonstrating and make decisions going forward with that knowledge rather than try to get them to behave in ways you prefer. You have control over your decisions, and you have zero control over their behavior. Make decisions that support your well-being even if these particular people will not.
I would talk more about my sad sorry life battling autism rejection and abuse but that would make me sound like a broken record
Does it make me an A-hole to type my problems online hoping someone reads it and says something uplifting?
I’ve come to learn that there are people that still find the beauty and joy out of “broken” records. Kind of like an actual player. I hope you never feel forced to share your story, and I also hope you encounter people in your lifetime that make you feel safe enough to do so. You know yourself best, and that includes what would affect your safety. 💜
@@that-weirdogirl
Hard to see it happening with fellow members of gen Z tbh
No, it doesn't. I feel like for those of us with such deep hurt and problems that make us feel so horrible we're drowning if we can't access therapy or the correct therapy we need a way to get that support. We can upset people by not even noticing we're talking a lot about these issues to those who are also struggling but the internet is a way for to release even a little bit of that buildup. Because online there will be at the very least 1 person who will talk you through it (if you want to do that) and listen to you care-free. You are not an A-hole for trying to overcome the thoughts and feelings making you feel the way you might be feeling.
@@CorrinAnderson
Idk man, once i first tried it someone called me an "attention seeker"
@@acemarvel1564 We can’t guarantee contentment from others, but we can model what we expect from others. If it’s not their cup of tea, that’s their prerogative. People come and go in our lifetimes, so it’s not impossible as it feels. But hypothetically, let’s say it is impossible… That doesn’t mean we can’t be content with ourselves (after all, we have ourselves for our whole lifetime). Perhaps you could end up being that person for other “broken records” instead? That doesn’t sound impossible either :)
Edited for a typo, but I’d also like to add this: “attention-seeker” is a label I’m familiar with from people whom I was actually crying out for help without directly saying just that. Other people’s perception of you does not equate to the reality of who you are. Just like how easy it is to cuss out a driver who recklessly cut you off, risked your safety, and made you miss a light, but maybe the driver was praying nonstop to make it to the hospital in time with their child in the backseat because they knew the ambulance wouldn’t make it in time. Perception is not always reality. Like I said, you know yourself best; don’t let others write your story. ✍️
This video is SO SO valuable. I love communication with friends because I want them to feel comfortable around me. I also worry about overstepping because I'm extroverted and I understand that not everyone can handle my BS. The truth is, neurodivergent or not, we all have different boundaries and needs. Clarity is so so important. It's more hurtful to me that people think I'm annoying or "too much" without telling me, rather than stopping me and saying "I'm tired, can we talk about this a little later?" There is a huge level of respect when it comes to both sides of that and it may seem uncomfortable at first, but it's such an important tool for later down the road.
I consistently follow a handful of ND creators, and your content has been the most illuminating and relatable. The way you break down concepts and communicate information is like perfectly in tune with how I perceive and understand the world. You helped me understand so many issues in my life, particularly with communication, relationships, and employment as an autistic person. You’ve helped me immeasurably since learning that I am autistic!
i really love your words about connecting to yourself when interacting with others. I feel like I have so much social anxiety because I'm constantly attached to the other persons perception I can't just be in my own frame and feelings.
Very well put.
You are 100% right: we can't ever expect people to know our boundaries if we don't communicate what they are. And we should teach ourselves to expect clear communication from others too, to prevent ourselves from taking on too much and becoming overwhelmed.
That is all we should put on our own shoulders, as well as on other peoples shoulders.
Not everyone will adhere to this, and that's when you need to decide if they are someone you need or want in your life. If not, then you don't have to educate them, that's their own responsibility. And If you do want them in your life and find that even after trying to educate them about clear communication, they still don't respect your boundaries or take responsibility for communicating their own boundaries, you might have to cut that person out of your life.
We should also stop villainizing and victimizing in these situations, we are all human and we all make mistakes, that doesn't make us the good or bad guy. This is so important.
Noting that, based on your behavior and the stories autistic thinkers might tend to be all shades of gray until it comes to their own behavior. (At least me.) For my own examples, when I was learning how to communicate my emotions as a teenager, I would try something and go, 'this didn't work, let me modify it' and go straight to 'let me try an entirely new method because this one didn't work'. I recognize now that I probably didn't need to correct that much, just figure out which part of it (timing, tone, etc.) was wrong and fix it.
Diagnosed autistic but I have a bad feeling I will always be the asshole.
L'atelier I feel the same
I really like this style of video! Would love for you to make more!
I wish I had these videos when I was younger. Your videos have been very helpful for me to send to my mom to explain how I feel and how my brain works cause I feel my autism experience is similar to yours! Obviously no one’s is the exact same but I’m the type of person to use lyrics and music videos and poems or even other peoples comments and posts just take the words right out of my mouth that I feel like I have been trying to articulate for years and years and that’s what your videos are to me ! Best thing that has helped my mom understand my diagnosis later in life. The video with you and your mom made her realize all my “behaviour” and “defiance” wasn’t because I was a bad kid but because I was struggling with autism and adhd I think that video of u two really opened her mind and how much of a spectrum autism is. ❤ I’m forever thankful for you.
Also random side not, I got glonky with you in the last meme video you posted and laughed my ass off the whole time LOL loved it ❤
Loved your take and feedback on all scenarios but the last one...
I feel the way you read their scenario was very different to my interpretation;
They wrote that they pointed out how this person was bringing them information that fell distinctly outside of the initial question. There is a vast number of way this may have been worded, and was not necessarily harsh or critical.
My first impression was that they were simply asking the person to be aware of how they had strayed from the conversation, something that, if habitual, could be a very socially problematic behaviour. Not completely unlike pointing out food in someone's teeth; yes it's uncomfortable, but not inherently judgemental, and provides them the opportunity to correct themselves.
My interpretation was that the other person was unable to take on the author's point, perhaps due to sensitivity, insecurity, limitations with introspection, and may have a victim mindset. Then, consistent with someone who is committed to maintaining or preserving their victim mindset, they cast the author as a horrible human in a very absolute and difficult to challenge way... By not communicating, they don't allow for the author to apologise or clarify, and they concrete both of their respective roles (necessary in supporting the victim narrative).
Even if the author had been a bit brash, someone open and mature would allow for the opportunity to resolve the situation, as empathy and compassion should be reciprocal. The author was not wrong to communicate the boundary breaking, and is not responsible for the other person shutting down communication. Not saying the other person doesn't have very legitimate reasons to struggle, but it seems to me the author would have been willing to talk and navigate this, and they aren't responsible for the other person's decision to not allow them the opportunity...
However, I can see how this submission could be read through a variety of lenses, and I'm definitely not trying to diminish the insights you offered for those scenarios where we may; offer our perspectives in a less than tactful way, or be less than kind to others.
I hope sharing my take on this has value 😊
could you plz make more parts of this video ? it was very helpful and educational for me and thank you for your amazing effort
This was very enjoyable. I enjoy all your content. I don’t think any of these people are the bad guys, but yeah, like you said Irene, it’s about communicating clearly how one feels.
You have so much empathy and humility. I just love observing people like that because I’m a lot like that. Please, don’t stop being a great person 💛🙏🏾☺️
i loooove this video and i would love to see more videos like this. i feel like i struggle a lot with this topic as a late diagnosed audhd who was never really taught how to recognize my own needs and advocate for myself and set boundaries. and the times i did try to advocate for myself growing up, i was often punished in some way. so i kinda learned that i couldn't trust myself and i started looking to other people for what was right and wrong and that has led to sooo much dysfunction in my life. recently i found myself obsessed with a podcast that reads stories like these, and while the hosts seemed like nice people and i was entertained by their show, i found that my anxiety was getting worse the more i listened to it. especially when my initial reaction to the stories they read didn't match their opinions. i realized the show wasn't good for my tendency toward black and white thinking and my perfectionist desire to never do anything wrong or upset anyone. i've really had to cut a lot of opinion content out of my every day life so i can focus on me and what i actually think about things without the noise of everyone else's opinions. your content has helped me in that process bc you never push your perspective as being objectively right, you are just true to yourself and encourage your viewers to explore their own perspective and consider things from many sides. and you've helped me realize a lot of things about myself that i had a hard time seeing clearly my whole life bc i wasn't looking through the lens of being autistic. so thank you!!! ❤
I often feel like the a-hole in a situation. but I think it´s a good sign. I think a-holes don´t wonder about if they are one 😅
I think you're right about that!
@@christinelamb1167 thanx 😁
This is brilliant, and also unfortunately hard truth for a lot of us as they're not exactly the easy options and require getting our hands messy. I really think everyone should learn to be more balanced and patient in their interactions with others, it's easy to fear those bad reactions and believe that they mean the end. In my opinion love takes work, and love is worth it when you can work through it together with your friends and family. We want others to not be entitled but we use our entitlement to prevent that, but once you see it in yourself things can get better and it doesn't mean you or anyone else is a bad person.
I didn't know what to expect from this video, but the whole concept of people needing to graciously communicate their boundaries is really profound, and something I feel like I've been guilty of, but also tiptoeing around. It really does seem to be an issue. I had the sense that people whouldn't bother communicating their preferences to me because they can just easily find someone else who'll fit what they're looking for. But this formulation of the issue gives me something I can work on, as far as at least identifying and communicating my own boundaries better. Thank you!
What i admire about another ND friend is that he works through the scenario with you I.e. looks at your side and the other side. Some people are quick to call you out instead of seeing both sides of the story
I appreciate your perspective on these situations!
Thanks! This was helpful, and I agree that it often comes down to communication
Your backpack collection 🤩 thanks for your content, Irene
This is for anyone who need to see it: the aita stories online are usually made up and not real. Don’t get upset by all the really terrible stories you read online.
I have scoliosis too! I've heard that's a common thing that autistic people have
Irene GOATED
So many things resonate with me. To many to bring up, thanks for doing this ❤
10:04 so important. I have been working on this lately. GREAT POINT!
Thak you for this video Irene!
The hardest thing on my journey and also which made me realise I might be autistic was the constant comments of, you’re rude, or that I am blantanly honest or that I initially rub people off the wrong way and then they realise hey I’m not bad at all, hearing all of this before was really taxing mentally because I care deeply about people and I truly love the connections I form with certain people, I would immediately be given a cold shoulder from my entire class (leaving one or two friends I had), and they’d constantly make comments about how I seemed unfriendly, I didn’t smile, I didn’t talk to them, it affected me a lot mentally because I started questioning if I was just a bad person I couldn’t understand why people wanted me to be this social butterfly who spoke and smiled at everyone when it just didn’t feel right to me, it made me feel rotten at the core like there was something wrong with me
And now that realise I’m most probably autistic (I’m yet to get a professional diagnosis) I understand myself and it’s made sigh with relief because I realised I’m not a bad person, I’m still a good person just massively misunderstood
you handled these so well, great advice!!
To answer the question at the beginning. Yes, pretty much constantly...
I would love more videos of this kind that especially brings up issues/misunderstandings between ND and NT people. I’m currently very upset with an autistic person close to me even though I believe this person was not aware that his behaviour came across as condescending and insulting and therefore didn’t understand why I was being snappy to him when defending myself. It ended with him telling me off for snappiness and unfortunately we didn’t get to resolve it due to someone else being uncomfortable and quickly changing the subject.
Genuine question, what is NPF?
Also, I relate to this struggle, and your discomfort being overlooked must have been pretty disappointing... As an allistic in relationship with autistic people, it has both been immensely helpful to understand they weren't being blunt or rude on purpose, they just don't read their behavior as rudeness, but also hard to know where to put the line between accepting them as they are and protecting my own feelings and... rights to feel respected? Even if I know they don't necessarily intend to disrespect me and it's also a matter of NT expectations
@@omeirai124 haha, sorry I must have been tired when I wrote that. NPF is a Swedish short for “neuropsychiatric disorders”. Have changed it now 😅
Thank you for the reply though. I have a couple of people who are more or less on the autism scale and I am usually understanding of their difficulties (or try to be). I can discuss misunderstandings and differences with my audhd partner which tends to clarify things. This was my brother though. But yes, it is tricky when you want to protect yourself as well and find their behaviour obviously rude. It’s difficult sometimes to understand that they don’t actually see it themselves (like when you get a condescending chuckle and a snarl as a comment to what you’ve said, which is what happened for me several times). It’s easier to understand overstimulation for example.
I don't know if I was ever the villain, but after some events now I want to be the villain. It's great to know I have more options and if they fail I'll still be myself, a person.
thank you 💗🫂
I’m excited to watch this shortly! But I’d also love to see a video on autism & social battery. I’ve been going out for the past few days and today I’m crashing! Thanks for the great content. Cheers :)
I made a video on that topic
this video is amazing, thank you
Your point about giving people time to adjust (in the grandma example) really struck me. It’s not fair for you to throw a ball at someone without warning and expect them to catch it.
Very interesting, thanks ❤
thank you for this video
More of these videos, please 👏🏿
Bingo 💔😢. Too much guilt not mine 💞🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻💞👊
I don't agree about the boundaries thing. I do state my boundaries, very clearly and firmly, all the time. And still, people won't respect them. I do know some ND folks may not yet know how to tell clearly and firmly their boundaries. But my experience of doing it for 7 years and all psychologists, social workers and psychiatrists telling me how amazed they are at how good I am at saying what I need, and yet everyone not respecting my boundaries... saying that they don't believe I have that need, etc. Well, I don' t know what I can do more...
Ugh, I'm so sorry:( Not ok
💚
Question or comment when it comes to family gatherings. In my experience my close family would tell me (it's not autism since I'm not officially diagnosed but even if I was they would still say I was never like this) I'm just getting older and it's not sensory overload. They would tell me I've changed, and how did all this sensitivity come all of a sudden. What do you say, since you are born austistic. But for my I was always super quiet in gatherings and I still am. A few weeks ago I felt the music on loud but just kept it to myself. I was able to go into a deeper medatitive state(from higher guidence) and I was like wow, is this how everyone else feels!!! Not fair for me but they just don't understand. How would anyone handle this?
You're very coherent
Irene = 🐐
Great video 😊💚
That was an interesting video.... I think boundaries and stating needs is an important subject in life.
Does anybody here who really connects with Irene's perspectives and compassion live in Australia?
My problem is I have FOBLO - Fear Of Being Left Out.
ah so the whole world and my family decided that I'm the jerk before i was even born. ok.
Personally, I think moral judgment is something to outgrow.
(There's rarely an asshole. When there is, "Look, there's the asshole!" is usually one of the least productive responses.)
I get where you're coming from since it can be such a slippery slope to black and white thinking for many, but I don't think outgrowing it altogether is entirely healthy. A good portion of the world is gray, but there still exist people who harm/abuse others for no good reason but satisfying themselves. There's still a sliver of analyzing their character and experiences that led them to the behavior in there of course, but they still do deserve to be ridiculed imo. Moral judgment can be healthy to a degree, but I agree it's often taken too far.
@@kaylaisnothere4397 My feeling is that it's like evaluating someone's fluency in German by asking them to point to their favorite color. I don't think there's any useful information there-it's a distraction at best, misinformation at worst.
If someone is going to harm me, I want to know that and I want to know how to avoid it. I don't think moral evaluation tells me either.
Or: Moral evaluation is a tool we use instead of understanding risks and how to manage them.
There's too much emphasis on being a "perfect human" - we are all bound to make mistakes. Some hurt others deliberately though
Hey there, I probably am.
23:00
I understand what you are saying, and I'm sure you've already considered what I am about to say, however I will still say it.
If that's how you are going to show up, are you really showing up? At that point, what's the point? Do you think the family is going to be satisfied with your ghostlike presence? It's hard for me to not think in these black and white terms because I just view them as more honest.
You look like you are wearing a Bonnet, but they are headphones. You look cute.
Neurotypicals are a holes it seems so maybe being the a hole for once ain't bad
Hum... I would say : no. But also : f***k pedagogy... I mean : why should you communicate perfectly just because you re struggling? You re reponsible for your actions alright...
But then how about it s also up to the people who care about you to educate themselves? Why should you always be doing all the work? Why should you take all the guiltship? Why should you be more diplomatical than they are? Walk on eggs? You know...
Actually in my experience, diplomatical boundary setting doesn t work anyway. Sometimes it wakes people up to be an a hole. And sometimes, it s also a life savior to burn bridges.
@@Alba-pc6bz they a holes cuz they don't wanna change for you man lol they don't wanna take two steps for you.
Is it me, or people these days have too many boundaries, too many expectations, and get offended super easily. Making a joke is like stepping on a landmine that causes an immediate damaged relationship. I find it super confusing. People need to learn how to calm down and not have an allergic reaction to other people's words.
I've even noticed that a lot of neurotypicals who echo this struggle will STILL be completely blind to the basic concept of human error and will work on a one strike system and refuse to acknowledge when their actions or words cause unintended harm.
My autistic friends & I can make slipups regularly and we will talk it out and be fine after, but when I make a mistake with neurotypicals, it usually ends with me sobbing and accepting full blame for the image of myself they painted in their head just to make the situation go away. I've found myself distancing myself from neurotypicals more and more in recent years. I don't really spend time with them anymore. It feels like walking on eggshells.
@@LilChuunosuke I have had the exact same experience (minus the sobbing part). I don't think I've offended them in any way and I was trying to help. It ends up with them not wanting to talk to me anymore and they refuse further communications without any explanations.
I noticed a recurring pattern that triggers a lot of neurotypicals. When I make friends, they find that I am very trustworthy at first. As a result they tell me a lot of details about themselves and their struggles, so I get a pretty good picture of what they are struggling with emotionally. The one "landmine" question I ask is usually the one that makes them self-aware. These questions are usually very short and sound benign on paper. Problem is many people just can't handle or accept their true self. Instead of changing their ways, they choose to remain stuck and shut me out for making them realize. It is as if they psychologically attacked themselves. I find it very odd.
@stevenzheng5459 god, yes, I've had this happen to me so many times! The worst is when someone comes to you for advice and starts telling you a ton of red flags that indicate they are being mistreated by a loved one. I had this happen with two of my closest friends and both of them cut me off for giving them honest advice despite them both explicitly asking for it and even encouraging me to be more blunt when I watered it down for them. I've noticed it doesn't matter how much I coddle them. It doesn't matter how much I assure them that I will stand by and support whatever decision they believe is best for their own health. No matter how much I try to express my love, care, and concern with my advice, they always respond with coldness, insist everything is fine, then send me a wall of text a few days later while I'm at work telling me what a horrible person I am and how much pain my words of concern caused them.
I lost a friendship of 9 years because I told him that his partner was a cheater that was micromanaging his identity and self-expression. And now even though he has broken up with that person, he refuses to rekindle our friendship because he doesn't like the fact that I expect him to take a small chunk of responsibility for the destruction of our friendship. He only wants to rekindle if I take full blame, even though he now knows everything I told him was correct. It makes absolutely zero sense to me! I literally do not understand at all what I'm missing here. Other than me being unable to mask my hatred towards the people mistreating my loved ones, I did everything that was expected of me and still came out the villain. I literally destroy my most important relationships because they dont like how openly and sincerely I show my love for them. They perceive the behavior as selfish, controlling, and mean and I just dont get what I'm doing wrong.
No, this isn't a real problem. 🤷🏽♀️
@noracola5285 cool. Glad you don't experience this. Doesn't mean others don't struggle with it
Playing out things which have been on repeat and also things most likely to come next. Doesn’t stop. 😮💨🫣💙🏴
Loved your take on these things