Destiny vs Vegan Gains, Listens To His Vegan Rap
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- Опубликовано: 17 сен 2024
- Last night on Destiny ft. Vegan Gains and WickedSupreme
Vegan Gains
► / @vegangains
Destiny channel ► / destiny
Bestiny channel ► / bestiny
Twitter ► / theomniliberal
DGG ►www.destiny.gg...
#Destiny
#Politics
#Debate
Vegan Gains And Destiny Scream At Each Other In Insane Debate
►ruclips.net/video/OeRfbSoRYJg/видео.html
Serious question, do you believe that? A vegan diet would be considered better than a carnivore diet.
Do you ever wonder if Vegan Gains enjoys these conversations? I'm not asking who he thinks won or not. I'm just asking if he is having fun going on the stream, because it seems that way to me
I keep thinking of "what if you didn't eat breakfast yesterday?
"But I DID eat breakfast yesterday "
I'm not convinced that Vegan Gains has a human conscious experience.
He certainty have no capacity of understanding the language xD
He brain dead
That's why I love him. He feels no pain like a fish and is probably not conscious but he's still a mad debate bro.
Vegan Gains is, in fact, unintentionally trying to demonstrate that some humans do not have much more understanding for language than a housecat.
Sorry, but neither of these people are really admirable.. its pathetic watching everyone trying to dog whistle for their perspective bullshit.. i assume you commodify animals?
This is rude to house cats.
As dumb as he is, VG is quickly becoming my favourite orbiter 💀too many villains in the orbit lately
@@lighting7508plll
@@lighting7508Completely agree, love every argument he and destiny have, it’s so entertaining
Vegan gains has made it his life mission to change destiny’s mind on this
By adding new words to his arguments and trying to gaslight him into believing that what he has said lmfao
Oh. I thought his was goal was to bore me to tears with his nasal voice. And he was nailing it.
@@urstaxfetish1206 What did he gaslight destiny on and what new words? Destiny repeatedly said he's looking for understanding not just being able to differentiate something
@@heartillery3930 guess my issue is him continuing trying to link it to animal rights when he knows perfectly well that humans and animals don't have the same level of intelligence and he lying to himself if he views himself as equal to a dog or monkey.
Meatheads have brain damage so it makes sense
I can’t bring myself to hate vegan gains, dude is way too unintentionally funny.
Oh it's easy to hate him. He is a smug degenerate, who thinks humans and dogs are the same thing.
It's because he is mostly a ball of barely contained impotent rage.
Humor is subjective...
You are alone on that
I knew about Vegan gains since like 2012 so yeah it's hard for me to hate also
Vegan Gains constantly comes in saying he did research then proceeds to explain he can’t remember half of it
He's only admitted to the action of doing research not to understanding or comprehending any of it.
VeganGains is a weekly villian now
He doesn’t actually comprehend things he reads he just looks enough to find something than seems to agree with him, I remember when he said he disagreed with the conclusion researcher drew from their own research, or when he just straight up ignored part of a paragraph that said lobsters don’t have brains.
It's called vegan brain fog.
@@IsaacTheSalsaShark💀💀💀
Lmao, the way Vegan Gains casually asks for an answer to the hard question of consciousness is hilarious
Hey, if you're not too busy, can you just come up for a plan for world peace and maybe let me know by the end of the day? That would be fantastic thanks.
@@anthonyhiscoxYeah I got a bit of a tight schedule today but I think I can fit it in.
@@jaaack848 Whether or not you disagree with OP, that's not a false analogy. They're both well regarded as massively complex problems and in both cases the request is for a quick and simple answer despite there being tons of debate even among experts.
@@jaaack848why don’t you give us the right analogy then oh all knowing Jack
@@jaaack848 When did he claim to KNOW the answers?
You never claimed that new borns “UNDERSTOOD” different languages, you specifically said “they can tell the difference”. Don’t let V Gains gaslight you.
Jeez I thought I was the only one that heard that 😂 I shoulda known it was VG being VG
it doesnt seem so out there for an animal to be able to differentiate between languages /: has there been a study similar to the newborn language study done on a species like dogs? comparing the lit brain regions of a dog hearing english (more familiar language) to hearing another more foreign language
@@jaaack848 To detect the difference in phonetics between different languages
@@satyrsorb912I believe they can understand languages to an extent, but it’s mostly tone. Like I can tell and get my dog to sit in both English and German, but I failed to do so in Spanish. I’d have to look into it
These “debates” with Vegan Gains are so refreshing after being stuck in redpill debate purgatory
Kinda... I wish theyd have a real vegan like me on there, but its clearly just for farming views,
People will complain that we are making no progress about m.m. climate change but then be passive aggressive about veganism.. in the next paragraph..
So, while the redpill shit was ignorable.. seeing all thos shit again is a bit annoying...
Like watching people debate the merits of the institution of human slavery when its obvious that the only route to change is war...
Theres 70 billion+ domesticated land animals all vulnerable to disruption and disease ..
There would be an instant cooling effect if they were culled, and animal commodification outlawed and entreated.. (exactly how human slavery was subverted)
How long til they start culling? Ohp too late, they are already talking about it in ireland ..
Imagine breeding animals that you want to die for your persona gain, then saying its wrong to cull them all, even tho it would actually give people that will be disproportionately affect by climate change more time, or even advert the worst of the damage...
Its been like a month since peiple started feeling sorry for themselves about living in affluent society and acting like "something meeds to be done" while actively doing the most to exacerbate the problem..
Id rather deal woth redpill shit... Who cares if humans make it terrible to live in their own society, i just want to keep it in our group of idiots, and stop fucking everything else on the planet over.
This existential crisis stuff is where we actually have to fight against each other, and i dont want to die fighting some dumdum who thinks god gave him the right to commodify animals, but here we are- compelled by circumstance.
Its funny because animal commodification is what fuels the redpill ideology. Patriarchal systems that support the acquisition of resources through war, this putting enhanced value on males, and turning women into pawns.
You dont go far from redpill when you start enslaving animals, and treating women as property as well.
You cant support the subjugation of animals, then complain when it backfires, and you become one of those animals 😆 its funny because so many states dont have equal rights for women...
But ladies, enjoy your chicken nuggets and steak and deteriorating position in society 😂
@@Vscustomprinting vegan gains is a real vegan. and good ass debater im not saying he wins everytime but most the time he at least holds up with whoever he debates
I agree but also don’t because I’ve been sitting through these Vegan Gains debates for the last 6 years. They are frustrating but needed when the time is right
@@kushpakk2210 you cannot commodify animals an be a "real vegan"...
That would totally invalidate all the credibility veganism has...
It would literally be like turning veganism into vegetarianism.
You are an outsider, woth an outsiders understanding refusing to listen to the logic and reason that is veganism..
ANIMALS ARE NOT OBJECTS TO OWN (caps for emphasis, childen often have a problem keying in on the topic). Now, you see how all kinds of people have excuses for why its okay for THEM to own animals and be vegan, but other people shouldnt?
Thats exactly what veganism was designed for- to mitigate co-option from animal exploiters...
Its known as the relativist fallacy- "okay for me, but not for thee"..
Why would a vegan be entitled to own a dog, but a cow farmer wouldnt be entitled to own a cow?
Logic, reason, and critical thinking are like a super power when you realize that most of the world refuses to actually engage in it (even if they respect it).
@@kushpakk2210 like i said, id wish theyd have a real vegan on there, but again, theres no point- its just to support their affluent entitled lifestyles- no different than anyone else.
‘A dog has seen a blue ball’ HAHAHAHAHAHAH that’s when I lost it 😂
Vegan gains is truly an S tier orbiter, guy is fucking hilarious 😂
Kind of like Mr.girl before the fall. Then everything changed, oof
@@maverick9708mr.girl was never funny.
@@maverick9708the only thing mr. Girl was good for was confusing me every single time he did one of his 30 second silence bouts. I always thought an ad was about to start or that the video paused itself.
I dont understand... Is this a dog whistle from peiple who needlessly abuse animals?
Its like yall are grouping up to passively aggressively try to denounce him...
Like, you realize others can see you virtue signalling right?
@@Vscustomprinting to be honest out of all the comments it's yours that seems to be virtue signaling 😂
Its like Steven is trying to explain that a car goes faster than a horse, but all he has is a piece of it and a limited understanding. So he plops the engine down and tries to badly explain but vegan goes "That's just a giant lump of metal!"
So Steven tries to explain that it needs gas and a fuel system to start up, but then vegan comes over and says "Well EVEN if I grant you THAT, how will it move? Is that little fan on the front gonna pull it along?"
So Steven starts talking about Transmissions and drive trains but he's already fucked because vegan will never be convinced that the 1000 lbs engine is gonna move.
Gains isn't looking to be a charitable part of this discussion, he's always looking to win the "debate" even if it means being pedantic and misrepresenting destiny's points or arguments.
He starts from veganism is the only true way to be moral, and argues from there. If we don't start from veganism, or even if veganism has no basis in the discussion, the discussion will inevitably be railroaded into veganism. Bonus points if you mention the word holocaust.
This is amazing 😂
Warms me heart to know this guy won't be reproducing. Society thanks you
He's literally doing nothing wrong. Yet Andrew Tate procreates and that'sokay? I'd much rather Vegan Gains procreate than Andrew Tate.
@@Jake38nine Sounds like you'd have to convince him to reproduce in the first place. I think he genuinely dislikes humans
@@Jake38nineBecause muh media? Think for yourself.
I got through waves of boredom with Destiny's guests/debates, but Vegan Gains always hits something in me where I'm just absolutely delighted every time he's on.
🤡
Theres just something about him thats engaging 🐒
@@nickmoradi711 It's his unwavering committment to never admit he's wrong and destined to make Destiny look bad. It's so entertaining. Better than Oppenheimer I bet.
Vegan Gains is such a perfect example of the Dunning Kruger effect its baffling how he got this far in life.
Using the dunning kruger effect as a generalization instead of pointing out what being said was incorrect means that you are the dunning kruger.
Do you need this guy to break down Vegan Gains shit argument for you? I mean you can just listen to him speak.
@@Onthebrink5If Vegan Gains said it, there is a high probability that it is incorrect. Does that help your pedantic self understand better?
FACTS!
@@lances6602 Vegan gains no echo chamber bad. I am sorry that all of you are just sheep. Just parrot what the last member of the echo chamber said. . Hey bad man is against the tribe. Anyone that uses the Dunning Kruger effect as an insult is dumber than the average human being. They can never talk about anything unless they have an expert level of understanding. Do you have expert levels of understanding about anything? No you do not. You are just a mindless tribalist.
The living embodiment of "well actually"😂
I love how Vegan Gains is unintentionally super pro-life just to prove dogs are as valuable as kids. What a nut.
"Listens to his Vegan rap"
Why is is this so funny 😂
Vegangains says "a 2 year old can't differentiate the sound of their mom talking or a glass slamming on the table". He is then presented evidence showing the child's brain can differentiate the sounds but says "well the baby can't say they differentiate so you're wrong" 😂. Bro take the L 😂😂😂
I really hate that RUclips automatically hides comments with "harsh language", cause there's really no other word than "tard" to explain how that's possibly one of the dumbest sentences I've ever heard
Babies can even understand the difference in tone with the same person, even if they don't understand the content of the message, how can he manage to utter that phrase even ironically, and still want to ever be taken seriously from now on ?
@@igorpedro8995Yeah, the average two year old says about fifty words and can start to put two or three together like "Mummy play" or something. Vegan gains thinking they can't differentiate sounds is so far detached from reality it's genuinely impressive. Like he's made it this far in life without ever seeing a two year old.
@@igorpedro8995 Because Destiny was the one who said he wanted UNDERSTANDING not Differentiating Its not that hard to understand this
@@heartillery3930
No, Destiny was pushing back on the claim Vegan Gains made that “Two year olds cannot differentiate between a cup slamming on a table and their mother/person speaking a language” which can be reduced down to the claim that “children cannot differentiate between sounds” which vegan gains walked back to six months. Destiny responded by saying he wasn’t convinced and then saying that a newborn can understand a difference between the two (which is, by definition, “differentiation”) which is not even remotely close to claiming “a newborn can understand the meaning and words of a language”. Vegan gains shifted the topic to avoid admitting he was wrong and EVEN IF he truly misunderstood Destiny clarified by saying he obviously meant “differentiation” not actual comprehension of the language. Vegan Gains than just tried to turn the conversation around by saying he was initially responding to Destiny’s claim but that is objectively not true as the whole reason this train of argumentation started was because Destiny was responding to Vegan’s claim that a two year old couldn’t differentiate the sound of a cup hitting a table from the sound of someone speaking a language.
@@heartillery3930 no, VG gaslit destiny, and apparently you aswell, into thinking that destiny actually said that. That was exactly not the case though.
Is it me or Destinys chuckles are contagious lol 😂
nah ur just gay
7😅😅
Its you.. when veganism comes up he seems to be laughing in a defensive/nervous way.. i used to giggle like that around one of my exs .. it was my first time experiencing real nervous laughter, (laughter when you dont want to).
@@Vscustomprinting bro u good?
@@johntheidiot9046 nah, its this pesky thing called integrity.. you wouldnt understand.
My favorite thing about VG is that he sounds like he is on the verge of tears when he starts getting frustrated
Destiny casually cleaning his handgun while talking lol
He is progun now? If he isn't anymore, he is no longer a gun control advocate he should be open about it otherwise that makes him a major hypocrite and thus a loser.
19:53
Vegans gains says a newborn cannot differentiate between language and non-language
21:30
Vegan gains pivots and claims differentiation doesn't matter, but understanding does.
Oh my god, I got so mad when VG stopped the article read. That is a pretty interesting article
Thank you for having the VG sperg highlights up front.
Vegan “put me on 1.25 speed” Gains
I prefer infinite speed by skipping the whole thing.
Vegan gains and his soy rage never gets old
Big L take 😂
It gets old rather quick
I just want him to state clearly into the mic "there is no difference bewteen a human brain and a dog brain", just say that, if that is your position
Yeah, his brain is almost at level of a dog
99% of Destiny's audience loves dogs more than people. I would bet a lot of money that you do as well. It is not as if Destiny has ever done anything to help people. Even Hasan has given more money.
That's not his position. He just thinks that the conscious experiences that humans and dogs have are sufficiently similar that they both deserve moral consideration.
@@Onthebrink5You pulled that statistic straight out of your ass. If given the choice between saving a baby and a dog, the vast majority of people, including DGG, would choose the baby
There is some interesting stuff about dogs and intelligence. Mostly memory and such...
My fiance and I have a Jack Russel Terrier and he's pretty smart. He knows the difference between the words "ball", "bone", "cookie", "potty", "outside", "bed", "mommy"... Etc.
If you ask him "where's your ball?", He'll go get his little red ball. If you ask him where's his bone, he'll go get his bone. If you tell him to go to bed, he'll go jump up on the bed.
Further, we got a completely new bad and put it in a new location, and he still knew that it was our bed. We said "go to bed", and he went to bed like normal.
Now, whether that means he has a conceptual understanding of a bed being "the place where me and my humans sleep" and can determine what that is, even if it looks a little different... Idk
What I do know is he's very smart.
Except when he pees on the carpet. Then I think he's the dumbest dog in the world.
The craziest thing I saw with dogs was this dog that essentially found she was a dog and became depressed. Makes me wonder many things about all animals, like do they consider themselves as a member of a species, or do they just exist with things that are similar to them?
(I saw a video of her pressing the little speech buttons, and she asks her owner why she is a dog)
That is just Pavlovian conditioning. I train dogs for a living and I can do that with any dog. Dogs in particular are difficult to gauge intelligence with because they’ve specifically evolved to mimic human behaviour and understand human body language. That makes them seem a lot more humanlike than they actually are and that they understand us when what they are doing is more instinctual. A great example is dogs evolved eyebrows specifically to mimic human facial features.
Random note, Tagalog is pronounced more like "Tah-Gah- Lowhg" with emphasis on the "gah" instead of "Tag-A-Log". It's the current official language of the Philippines.
So the log is pronounced more like coke with a g than log?
@@morganyu5599Me.
love these back and forths.
I must say I respect Destiny for partaking in this time and time again no matter how annoying it is. Vegan Gains is still motivated by good things even if his approach is dismal and he misunderstands half of what one says to him regardless of how many times it's repeated.
I highly doubt VG is motivated by good things. He operates in such a dirty bad faith manner that it undermines everything else he says. Even if he says something of value (he never has when speaking with Destiny) we can all safely ignore it as we wouldn't be able to tell if it's his disingenuous takes or just a flat out low (his other half of arguments )
VG is hardly motivated by anything good. He's wished death and cancer on people, mocked people for dying, dude is just a rotten pathetic little man.
@@MrPythonProgramer vegan gains can and has engaged in bad faith argumentation but let’s not pretend destiny has never done the same thing in regards to this topic. He’s tried multiple ways of arguing against veganism in the past to mostly poor results which shows he’s working backwards from a preference. I don’t think it’s a surprise that destiny hardly debates more capable opponents on this topic because when he does, like he did with cosmic skeptic, his position looks insane and he’s not nearly as convincing. His position at the end of the day more or less can justify any animal suffering at the hands of humans.
@@MrPythonProgramerook at your face lol. Vegan gains could crush you with just his thighs
@@joshh5353 I suppose that's fair enough, I'm mostly just frustrated with the guy and his incredulity
This dude could get twice the gains if he just bucked up and ate Bambi.
Their both so condescending to each other 😂😂😂 i love it
He like legitimately cannot follow the logical A to B to C of a conversation, he genuinly seems unable to do so
I am sure Destiny will tell me he is very smart
Destiny was the one not being able to understand that there is a contradiction between what gives someone the right to life where he names consciousness and semantic understanding but doesn’t have any proof a fetus has this
@@heartillery3930Well the crux of Destiny's argument Is thst we have to assume that creatures with similar brain structures to humans have the human experience which is what he cares about. It is 100% an assumption but it's one we have to make because we probably can never compare conscious experiences
@@Jo-bs2uu Cool that is not evidence a fetus has semantic understanding which is the trait he named. he also doesn't base when their conscious on assumption but on sources
@@heartillery3930 well when we're dealing with areas of conscious experience we necessarily have to make assumptions. As far as i can ever know I'm the only conscious but I assume everyone has them with certain brain parts but i could be completely wrong.
@@Jo-bs2uu Appealing to Solipsim doesn't make u believe that other humans are concious because u can keep running this down to the point where u don't know what other brain actually look like or that ur imagining it
He only talks to Vegan Gains because torturing himself for our entertainment makes him enough to justify the suffering
He talks Vegan Gains because talking to Alex O'Connor was not good for him.
Friendly reminder that Vegan Gains filmed a family member die of a heart attack to demonstrate the consequences of eating meat. Bro is not well adjusted.
Yea he is a pos. This debate would be over in two seconds with me. Why do we value animals lives less than people's. I don't. I wouldn't eat my friends dog cause he is a good boy. Where you I don't give a crap about your life cause you are horrible. Just like you don't give a crap about the person you filmed having a heart attack.
His own grandfather 💀
I like to think about it as consciousness is an existing force as base as other primordial forces. It just happens to center and manifest within nervous tissue.
When he’s losing he starts talking like he’s super uninterested but you can tell he’s just trying to sound like he’s uninterested lol
Am I crazy for once again taking Vegan gains side on this? I’m only 12 min but we’ll see. Destiny DID posit that semantic understanding was the thing that gives human fetuses human rights but DID NOT provide a shred of evidence to support human fetuses having that semantic understanding.
It just shows that ur not destiny meat rider and u don’t agree w everything he says
Ah yes, the weekly vegan gains debate
It used to be annual, then it was monthly...
I look forward to the future daily VG debates. I hope whenever Destiny gets his podcast off the ground, he has VG in-studio for every episode. Destiny can be discussing the finer points of Right to Repair with his newest lay and VG will come in there and try to tie right to repair arguments into animal rights somehow.
"If you can repair your smart toaster, then you must also save the dolphins and Coco the Gorilla. They're capable of understanding language, after all..."
Destiny needs to change his abortion position to Pro-Life to finally checkmate Vegan Gains 😂
If he would just turn the Smug down like 50% I think a lot more people would listen. But then again Vegan & Smug are synonymous.
Vegan Gains debate tactic.
"No."
Don't forget "infinitely holocaust"
Vegan Gains debates are my insta click favourites. The guy constantly lose,yet still come back for another round,with his sad condesending voice. Truly a master of the art of taking L 's.
OH SO YOU WANT TO ENDLESSLY HOLOCAUST VEGAN GAINS???????
Vegan gains arguably has given destiny his toughest debates and possibly scored a dub against destiny in the Nick Fuentes debate imo
@@pie579 He gave him the toughest though experiments,things he have to think about for sure. But in debate? He lose all the time,because he cant remember a single study,and when he remembers and Destiny look into it,turns out its completely different thing.
I dont really remember the Fuentes stuff,all i remember about that convo is that Vegan simply dont understand how Destiny mind works and why he dont call him fascist.
VG:OMG HE Is a Na-i, JUST CALL HIM LIKE THAT!!
D: But there is nothing to win if i call him like that ,i can only lose
VG: But clearly he is
Hardly any dub there.
@@pie579lmao L take 🤡
Vegan gains needs to make merch that says “ummmmm soooo”
Vegan Gains did an excellent job, he will be pursuing his Phd soon.
Good one 🤣. He talks like he is max 12yrs old who thinks he knows everything
@@tuukka1827 Ph.D. Gains coming soon, and his thesis will revolutionize reality as we know it🎓💡🤓.
L take
@@RaccooniusIII lol
Broca and Wernicke regions of the brain are super fascinating. Like the fact that a lesion in either of these portions of the brain give wildly different results on language. Like broca damage you cant speak but you can understand and communicate in other methods. Wernicke's region is needed for comprehensive and intelligible language. Like damage here you can intake new information but when you communicate you just give out a word salad. Granted this is knowledge i gained from about 10 years ago half remembered from biology 200
Vegan Rap is my new favorite genre.
This is like hell or purgatory or a bad dream. Someone trying to change your mind or get you to concede a point on something you don’t really care about and getting so caught up in hypotheticals and semantics you forget what you’re even debating about. And it goes on for eternity
This is literally a KRS-ONE song called "Beef"... Word for word, being a hip-hop head of course I had to mention it.
Equating a whole language to a cat meowing is a fucking wild comparison. If one part of a baby's brain lights up when speaking the mother's native language which isn't a single sound, and then those same areas aren't lighting up when foreign languages or non-language sounds are being presented, then its very likely that the baby AT LEAST UNDERSTANDS that there is a difference between what they are hearing.
I will never take seriously the argument that abortion isn't a moral wrong from a person who won't even eat an _unfertilized_ *chicken* egg.
Because eggs cause immense suffering to animals. ruclips.net/video/7uw5c5kSVr4/видео.htmlsi=NUPhUrjCTLqS7cgF
Never have I seen anyone so sure of things they know nothing about.
Vegan Gains would have a heart attack if he finds out about Koko the Signing Gorilla 😂
He is aware of Koko, it’s just that the academic consensus is that Koko didn’t understand sign and instead was mimicking the language in the same manner as parrots. Is it convincing? Yes. Is it actually language? No.
If I have to hear "semantic understanding" one more time...
VG saying "Sorry" in the strawman voice sounds exactly the same as he says it normally lmao.
Destiny says it would probably be bad to allow people to chop off arms and sell them, is it ever the case an early fetus could is considered a part of the body like that?
But I guess this would necessitate the fetus is not a life and having the abortion has worse detriments for the woman’s life than carrying on with pregnancy.
In discussing whether a fetus has a sophisticated understanding of the world destiny says "it probably has the ability to, I think" but I thought that destiny was super unequivocal in saying that a thing is not what it can become, so which is it Steven
Destiny is not claiming a fetus is going to acquire the ability to have a sophisticated understanding of the world. He's claiming it already does have the ability and only lacks the experience.
We need more of vegan gains and destiny, i cant stop watching this trainwreck tryna win
I still dont know what Vegan Gains is even arguing for
'holocaust holocaust holocaust holocaust holocaust holocaust, You're icky and gross!' - Is about all he ever argues. It's just for the sport of debate. No actual point to be made.
Sign language: 2 birds 1 stone, humans don't need spoken 'language' to express intelligence, and chimpanzees can't learn it despite having the necessary neurology.
Destiny: "My arbitrary potentiality is better than your arbitrary potentiality."
After hearing him recite a rap song
Vegan gains to Destiny is
G man to TJ Amazing Atheist
Lmao
G man what a reference lmao
Is G Man still out there raging out with terrible God arguments?
Between vegan gains and awooga, we may never run out of content.
Vegan gains takes on what children can and can’t do is wild. Certainly a cat dad only and not a human dad.
I think I would argue that brain development is kind of intrinsic to humanity. Like everyone's brain is constantly forming new connections and learning and building. That's what long term memory is. A 20 week old fetus that didn't form new connections would not understand language, but neither would an infant
Holy shit yes, thank you. I never thought about this. Thank you big homie
“Okay but it has seen a blue ball” was actually insane 😭😭
Destiny is super dishonest. He values having the “structure that will eventually be able to deploy the capabilities he values”? So if an infant had an identical experience but did not yet have the corresponding brain region yet, that baby is not morally valuable? Liar.
He has literally said that Jaxon Buell should have been killed. So yeah, he already *has* said that.
He is a eugenicist for babies without brains.
Vegan Gains literally knows nothing about children.
My two year old child is already capable of, and has demonstrated she can be, manipulative. I’ve watched as she’s pretended to fall down, starts fake crying, and checking on me to see if I’m paying attention in order to get affection and sympathy and attention. She’s done this as young as one year of age where she would hide her face in her arm, pretend to cry, then lift her arm to check if I’m looking with completely dry eyes and sometimes even laugh when she’s caught. At around nine to ten months she understood the word “No” or “Hey!” (rudimentarily but still effectively) which she demonstrated by either being upset she was being denied something or had to stop something or turning to pay attention to me because she realized I was calling for her attention (usually to stop her doing something that was risky).
This claim that children could not differentiate between a cup slamming down and a language is ridiculous. My daughter could even differentiate between voices as young as six months old (maybe younger even) demonstrated by her having significantly different reactions if I was speaking to her vs her mother. She was even able to display preference as well by always going to me for comfort over her mom and if mom came instead she would fight to be free and reach out for me to hold her.
This is ridiculous.
Vegan Gains obviously knows nothing on this topic but continues to voice opinions based off of nothing other than his emotions and drive to convince Destiny. Even when he’s disproved (I.e. a peer reviewed study that demonstrates that children at birth can differentiate between sounds and language) he moves the goal post to try and shift the argument to avoid having to admit he’s wrong. He literally said “they cannot differentiate” and than tried to twist it to “they cannot understand” while trying to claim that he was challenging Destiny’s claim. This makes no sense as destiny was responding to Vegan’s claim by saying he wasn’t convinced of it and than followed that up with pointing out children at birth are capable of differentiating as in “understanding a difference”. A child at birth doesn’t have to understand the language just that the sound of language is different from the sound of a cup which is by definition differentiation.
Additionally, I find it absolutely hilarious and hypocritical that Vegan will make claims one after another and refuse or just not even try to substantiate them and get upset they aren’t accepted by Destiny. He’ll even go so far as to make accusations of Destiny simply because Destiny is saying he’s not convinced that Vegan’s claim is the case. Yet, on the other hand, as soon as Destiny even remotely pushes back on a claim or states he doesn’t accept the claim Vegan will demand evidence and when that evidence is presented he’ll attempt to attack its credibility or change the argument.
Vegan Gains is so bad faith. Even if I had ever considered being vegan he’s made sure I absolutely never will by virtue of his dishonest conduct and terrible arguments.
Other animals too are capable of being manipulative. For example I saw an interesting video where a dog faked a limp only when humans were around to get food and affection.
Destiny makes interesting points but it's a bit strange to me to value something that does not have an ability only because it has the capacity to grow to learn that ability, but not value something that also doesn't have the ability but has the capacity to grow to have the capacity to have the ability. Neither currently has it yet both will be able to have it and the only difference in a practical sense for both between having and not having the ability is time.
Also it's not pertinent to the points that I argue so I don't know empirically but I would be incredibly surprised if it is true that a 20 week fetus, if frozen at that physical cognitive development, would be capable of meaningful human thought/intelligence.
@@xHannibal At no point did I invoke the greater topic in this case. I was simply describing Vegan Gains’ actions and that they are bad faith and that his claims are absolutely incoherent and incorrect.
Additionally, a dog doing that does not exceed a Pavlovian connection whatsoever. Dog could have easily gotten hurt, got a reaction, connected that with limp, and now fakes a limp. “Limp = food. More limp = More food”. A child, on the other hand, can do this with a more in-depth understanding. “I’ll fake fall and fake hurt just to trick my dad for fun and play” or “If I fake being hurt that’ll alarm my parent and cause them to check on me and then I can play with them”. But, to go further, a child at two can utilize language and a deeper understanding of it in order to manipulate their parent or just in general.
The thing we are talking about here is the capabilities of the brain in a child vs the capability of a brain in a dog. There is a clear difference between the two. This is like trying to compare a computer today with i9 core processor, 4090 graphics card, and state of the art components to a handheld calculator. If we cock our head to the left and squint we can argue they both function the same. They both have software, they both have screens, they both have buttons, pressing a button on both produces results, they can be turned on and off, they both have circuits, they both operate on electricity. You can even use the computer as a calculator as it has a calculator app on it. YET, they are completely different structurally and the experience you have with one will be far different from the other. Just because the calculator has some principles similar to the computer doesn’t mean the calculator is equally as capable as the computer or even the same thing. If you value the computer and the experience you have with a computer that doesn’t than logically extend to you having to value the calculator equally. Just because they both share some base level processes also doesn’t mean that they are equal to one another. Just because the calculator can do things that mimic the computer in some way doesn’t mean they are both doing the same exact same thing either nor that it’s even being derived from the same process.
So, no, a dog is not equal to a child nor is it capable of equally expressing things the same way for the same reasons with the same understanding as a child. The child is the state of the art computer that has all the pieces in place that separate them from the dog. They might be using the calculator function until they learn to use all the other functions already inherently present but a dog (who is the calculator) will never be able to learn to use all the functions of the computer because it doesn’t have all of the structural components necessary.
Edit: I want to add that Destiny seems to be arguing the fact that because one thing already has the structural capacity to exhibit something that, that’s the reason he’s valuing it. The pieces are already there while inversely the dog does NOT have that inherent capability because it lacks those same structural elements. A dog cannot learn to exhibit the same level of consciousness, understanding, complexity, reason, emotional understanding/reasoning, and cognitive ability as a human because it doesn’t have the structural elements that make that possible. If you’re going to claim a dog could than substantiate that.
I love that Arby’s ran a music number about meat on this video
Vegan gains always talks like he’s asking a question, even when he isn’t
I know he didn’t bring up squirrels. They specifically cannot find all the nuts they bury, not even half, and they bury a fuckton bc they are only going to be able to find a small amount of them. What a joke
from my memory of their last argument, the symantic understanding point was used to differentiate humans from animals in their complexity of thought, not that it was necessary to have at the outset of their existence to be afforded human rights.
Yeah. Destiny is relying on the “structures of the human brain” trait. I guess it’s more consistent then his previous arguments but I can’t help but feel he’s just looking for any reason he can find to eat meat.
@@joshh5353 i dont think he really cares about animals in general. it wouldnt matter very much how sophisticated an animal was unless it could rise to the complexity of humanity. the moralistic argument would never work on him. he just doesnt care. honestly, i like meat, and i wouldnt stop eating them unless you could somehow prove to me that not doing it somehow benefited me and that it was an easy change to make. barring that, im sticking to omnivorousness.
this debate isnt really about animals though. its mostly about his abortion argument. i know vegan gains wants to connect the two, but there are very radically different considerations involved.
@@SSStylishCombo I hear what you’re saying and I understand your argument, but it’s a nasty bullet to bite that it’s fine to do whatever we want to animals. I know you’re not explicitly saying that but you’re kind of suggesting that. I don’t value animas to the same level I value humans but I think The idea that because we’re the superior being, we can do whatever we want to other beings we deem inferior is not the type of mindset that I think is healthy for society to embrace. Factory farming and other atrocities committed against animals, and even humans to some extent (racism, misogyny), can be attributed to that mindset.
@@joshh5353 well, if you want my real argument in full here it is.
i think humans are one animal among many on this planet, and that we happen to rule it by way of our evolutionary superiority. i do not believe that the sophistication of our brains requires that we prohibit ourselves from eating other animals, as that is sort of how we got here, and its what all other animals do as well in general. that being said, i happen to like animals and think they are important to our planet and way of life, so i tend to treat domesticated animals as special due to how much of a bond we can build with them. i also think that we should limit the amount of suffering we impose on animals we eat, not because we have to, but because we can and have no real reason not to try. but im also of the opinion that if shit got hairy on a deserted island, and the only food i could find were the dead passengers, id eat them if it meant living. i wouldnt like it, but id do it if my life was on the line. so maybe im just strange in the head or whatever. i dunno. thats just my take on it.
at the end of the day, i think we are special in a way, but not so special that we must flagellate ourselves in service to other species that are not in danger of dying out and cant even appreciate the effort anyway.
@@SSStylishCombo Yeah I do agree that a major part of humans’ development had to do with hunting and consuming animals, but we also don’t need to do that anymore. I don’t doubt that you’d prefer we’d try to treat animals better since there’s no reason not to try. But if you agree with destiny’s argument that humans are the superior being, I think its gonna be harder for you to ever argue in favor of animal welfare since the person you’re arguing with could use destiny’s argument against you. I think you’ll better avoid any contradictions if you start from the position that sentience is what determines moral worth.
I can't quite decide how much VG problem is arguing in bad faith and how much it's stupidity.
I’m convinced it’s even worse than 50/50 and is closer to 100/100.
He’s 100% stupid and also 100% bad faith. These often go hand in hand anyway. Increased levels of stupidity require increased levels of bad faith in order to compensate for the deficiency in comprehension. This is even more applicable when dealing with exceeding levels of pride and arrogance.
If the levels of stupidity are high enough and the levels of arrogance match that than the levels of bad faith must be equal or greater in order to protect the pride and arrogance by covering up and compensating for the stupidity.
@@HeavenlyReaveryou mean when Dunning-Kruger is in effect, and your whole world is built around that world view, you have no choice but to add another log to the pile of lies?
Weird. 😂
"No, ummmm, you seee, Destiny just didn't understand my point well enough. That is why I didn't win the argument."
😂
@@firghteningtruth7173 in a simplistic format…yes that’s exactly what I’m saying lol.
@@HeavenlyReaver To be honest, I just rephrased to make the joke about VG. 😂😂😂😂
To be fair, I think a lot of people just say a bunch of things in their head based on what sounds good. They don't really take the time to evaluate whether or not that is actually true about themselves or the world around them and then are just embarrassed and prideful.
It actually takes a concious effort, and no slight one, to not start doing that. To call yourself out and stop exaggerating.
Social media, man.
Before, you would have to go out in the world and interact with someone to think you were any good at a thing. And if you thought wrong Chad over there would out physical you, Dexter would out think you, and Rico would out suave you. There was no hiding from it. But now....
Weeeeeeeeeeee.🤣
I'm sure it's already been used but if eating animals is immoral would it then be moral to eat the animals that eat other animals?
That ”rap” is just a cover of Boogie Down Productions ”Beef”
At this point, Vegan Gains is like Team Rocket, he's here so we can laugh, before he goes blasting off again. But you can't really hate the dude, just laugh and/or pity him
unironically, i think pro life people should actually take notes from vegan gains on how to dismantle destiny's consciousness argument.
Chimps don’t have the same language faculties in the brain that humans do. They don’t have a Broca’s area (left inferior frontal lobe) which I’m assuming is what vegan gains meant by boca. That particular area’s focus is on syntax/grammar. The area for “semantic understanding” would be Wernicke’s area (left temporal lobe). It’s more likely that this would have something closer to resemblance to Wernicke’s area, tho nowhere near as developed. But this aside, you don’t need to having semantic understanding, or the ability to use or understand language at all, to justify existing. You can also recognize yourself in the mirror without language. You can understand math without language, to a great degree. So I’m short vegan Gaines you can pick better arguments to argue against destiny 😂
From what I've seen, vg did well on the 'understand' and 'differentiate' part, impromptu making reasonable refutations on a random study was certainly convincing.
I feel destiny views the value of sentience as measurable only from a comparison of certain brain structures human's have, though it is consistent and may occur fewer absurd entailments from ntt, i feel it is analogous to valuing something for trait that we don't really value, for example, giving most moral value to white people only because they are white when in reality 'whiteness' is not something of value. To be more specific, 'human sentience' is not what we value, it is only 'sentience' itself and the measure of said sentience from sentient being to another sentient being is not necessarily measurable or comparable by metrics of 'human sentience'.
47:41 Vegan Gaines "rap" song 🤣
From ChatGPT:
"As of my last update in September 2021, the earliest known detection of brainwave activity in a human fetus was around 20 weeks of gestation. At this stage, some basic brainwave patterns, such as electrical impulses, can be recorded using specialized medical equipment like electroencephalography (EEG). However, the brainwave patterns detected at this early stage are still relatively simple compared to those observed in more developed stages of pregnancy and post-birth."
Brainwave activity is certainly a crude proxy for cognition/experience, but it IS a prerequisite - and the first signs of this rudimentary proto-consciousness can only be detected around 20 weeks. So yeah.
Vegan Gains has the charm of Bill Lumberg
I want the arch where VG accidentally eats real eggs and bacon in his breakfast burrito, his Vegan brain fog disappears and turns into Bradley Cooper from Limitless. He has to deal with the internal struggle of being a philosophical / debate god or staying VG
Damn, destiny totally missed the point when starting to read about the chinese room experiment, that had nothing to do with what Vegan gains was saying and if it was anybody else I think the majority of the comment section would be saying he's running away from the questions
How do all these arguments always devolve into dogwarts lol
Destiny actually lost this debate.
Two fun examples that show the chasm between the human brain and AI:
1) What do a large beanbag, a sofa, a fallen log by a campfire, and a horse have in common? Humans know the answer to this because we have bodies and an understanding of using our bodies the world.
2) What is wrong with the sentence: "She put the skateboard in her backpack"? It's syntactically correct, but, again, because we're humans who have a physical experience of the world, we can know why that sentence is incorrect.
you know what i love about vegan gains? every time he debates destiny i get more comfortable eating meat
Next time ask him about the time he killed his grandad by marching him up a hill.
i don't understand how vegan gains expects either a human or a dog to understand a language that they haven't learned... Even if a 20 week old fetus has the capability to speak a language OBVIOUSLY won't know it... and by the time a human can be reasonably expected to learn a language + all of the worldly knowledge and experience you would need including the mastery of your mouth and body parts takes the baby beyond the years that they are arguing about. what a dumb conversation lol
0:25 teehee blue balls
As a human male, my lived human experience makes even me incapable of imagining 5 hypothetical, blue balls.
It’s just too painful, man.
D: “Newborns can 100% tell the difference between languages at birth”
VG: “no they can’t”
D: “yes they can”
VG: “show me the evidence”
D shows paper suggesting they know the difference (ie: differentiate)
VG: “maybe they can differentiate, but you used the word understand”
I think it’s important to lay out how vegan gains will change and lie about what was said beforehand, and tell people they have made a stronger claim than they actually did, most perfect example of a straw man. There is just a big gap between arguments he can get away with it.
We get it vg likes dogs better then babies
Well he does fk them... So yeah
Language is the shadow casted by the things needed. It itself isn't it, and if the light is not shining the correct way, it might not cast that shadow, but the shadow being there shows that the thing is there.
Vegan Gains and the Name the Trait dialogue tree, name a more iconic duo. Seriously, it is so frustrating watching him be completely unable to engage in the conversation at all until he hears a buzzword that he knows how to attack.
"Where am I getting my nutrition J***a**!?"
Genetics, bruh.
Squirrels had to be the worst example possible they have crap memories and regularly forget where they had hidden their nuts