SKYDEMON vs. FOREFLIGHT... Which is better for European pilots? PART II
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
- Foreflight and Skydemon are two popular navigation apps for general aviation pilots flying in Europe. I've been flying with both in the past and I'll be comparing them for you. Let's get airborne in the 2nd part of this series. We'll see how both apps look inflight and in the debriefing. We'll find out more on additional features as well as the pricing structure. You'll find my personal opinion in a little conclusion at the end.
Content of this video:
Intro: (0:00)
Going flying: (0:32)
Debriefing: (12:12)
Additional features & connectivity: (14:42)
Pricing: (17:30)
Conclusion: (20:45)
NOT Sponsored and unbiased. I paid myself for both products.
Find part II here: • SKYDEMON vs. FOREFLIGH...
Find out which works best for yourself by getting a free trial:
www.foreflight.com/trial-crea...
www.skydemon.aero/start/
Screencasts shown in this video have been recorded in spring 2020 and must NOT be used for navigational purposes. Also check out the apps yourself for possible app updates and design changes.
For me as Microlight VFR Pilot SD is the perfekt produkt. I get maps of all of Europe at an unbeatable price. This means I can flexibly fly spontaneously across Europe within hours. In Itali i got the ULM corridors and Information of Campi di volo (just for Microlight plans) and Aviosuperfici . Its also easy to navigate in complex airspace structure in Itali or France. Wether and VFR routes through the alpes are includet. SD is the best and valuable Produkt for VFR pilots.
I'm just starting my PPL in Switzerland and your two videos are priceless! I have been struggling with ForeFlight in "free" mode and wondering why the the European VFR charts look so plain.
It looks like SD is the way to go for VFR in Europe, at least while being a student pilot. I will keep an eye on FF waiting for improved VFR European support.
Just to point out that the possibility to set a different altitude for each leg in SD is hugely convenient when you have to avoid airspaces: it becomes part of the planning and forces you (in a positive way) to be fully aware of the airspaces along the route.
That‘s true. Selecting a reasonable cruise altitude for different legs depending on airspace that‘s lying ahead is as important as the route itself and works very well in SD!
Thanks for the excellent reviews! I really enjoyed watching them. And you answered my question about whether to switch to Foreflight or not.
Great video. What I found recently was a ferry pilot delivering a Cirrus to Austria from the states.. It was kitted out with the latest Garmin suite yet the ferry pilot had an iPad with SkyDemon on it and used that for the ferry trip..
This comparison was done to perfection. Very helpful. Thanks for the work:)
Thanks for your comment and the compliments, means a lot! 😃😉
your analysis is superb, such a lot of work I bet. It's deceptively difficult (for most of us normal mortals) to fairly compare two complex systems like this.
Great video man
I used SD in Turkey during my pilot training and it was very useful for the navigation flights. Estimated time checkpoint arrivals, GS, wind at altitudes, fuel burning etc... And map details were more than enough even in Turkey. Thanks for the video.
SkyDemon also has a “glide estimate” function. I have mine set to only show over water.
It also allows the profile view to change width which you said it doesn’t, if I understand you correctly. The way to change it in SkyDemon is with a “pinch-to-zoom” gesture which will allow you to see more or less distance around fore and aft of your aircraft.
[Edit - I listened to that section again and realised that you are talking about left and right of the aircraft. My apologies]
Hi there! Tahnks for your comment! Yep, I learned about the glide estimate in SD through an earlier comment below this video. Sorry for the wrong information there. 🙈 Cheers
Your conclusion is perfect, In my opinion you can use SD VFR and IFR, FF only for IFR!
An Excellent pair of videos! I use Skydemon but was very keen to see Foreflight in an equivalent situation. Thank you for the work you have put in to achieve a sensible and even handed look at both apps. Carl
Thanks Carl for your comment and the compliments! 😉
Just like Part I, a very solid comparison in a pretty unbiased form. Loved the X-Plane flight with both apps shown simultaneously. Keep up the excellent work. Wayne
Thanks so much! 😃👍🏼
Great video, thanks. I’ve used SD before and switched in 2020 to FF.
Great great work doing a fantastic comparison. I have flown with both apps through Europe VFR trips, first 2 years with SD and now I'm on my second year with Foreflight, many of your takeaways are spot-on. I have some further findings I'll share. Foreflight does a fantastic job with the electronic logbook, very little work and the logbook is precise with limited work afterwards, great because we have to keep written version for both airplane and pilot in Denmark. Logbook function is way better in Foreflight (After flying work, and reporting / exporting)
Planning a flight on ground is first class with ForeFlight, the way the editor is working is top notch, Profile view is also great but requires one to pay even more on top of an already expensive product. This is included in Skydemon, I can't live without this and that makes Foreflight way more expensive in the long run.
In flight, I find Skydemon has the overhand, as buttons are way bigger, they are to small in Foreflight at least in bumpy weather (flying a CTLS Ultralight) way to often I hit something wrong and has to go back and retry as the wrong window opens up due to fat fingers. Also when flying in UK you have to give constant positions reports due to Neanderthal British radar technology, SkyDemon always shows a position on mainscreen, you can give to ATC, readily available. Also figuring out which frequency to next tune into is cumbersome in Foreflight.
ForeFlight is a better app for me due to the better Pre flight planning and Postflight logbook function, but I do miss SkyDemon when I'm actually flying - Bigger buttons, and more Right information readily available.
Final grunt about ForeFlight is that they are NOT consistent with Metric system throughout, I still see NM in my logbook even though I have selected Metric system everywhere. Its still a US product developed in Denmark, hurry guys, fix this.
Thanks very much for these videos. Well done
Excellent video, and very good reasoning!
Love your videos. Only passed my PPL last week (yay) and most of my flying will obviosly be VFR in Europe. At the moment using paper charts but I will have SD to help and confirm planning and also as a back up
Two very good videos, well done including the most difficult part (the conclusion).
If you fly regularly VFR and IFR in Europe and the US, the choice is quite easy (FF).If you fly only VFR in Europe, SD is the clear winner for me. I tend to use SD in Europe and FF in the US. I really like the clarity of the maps in SD, but other things I came to like were also the vertical profile, the "what's here ?" functionality, the navlog, the frequencies tab, the notams and the continuous product improvement. Some of these things are not as advanced in FF. However the subcription flexibility is nice, as is the better option/integration of approach charts because Jepp charts are simply the best for GA.
The lack of official ICAO charts in SD I don't see as a real issue. In fact, SD charts are better because updated more frequently. Various countries offer their maps in their eAIP, but honestly would you use them ? Not likely, and they are not mandatory. Ramp inspectors - if you ever come across one - are mainly interested in trip preparation, licences (aircraft/crew), adherence to procedures and backup arrangements in case of electronic devices.
I couldn't agree more. I'm getting my IR and there is no question I'll use FF for IFR, but I'm keeping SD for VFR because it's clearly superior for that. Maybe one day FF will catch up...
What about i fly VFR and IFR in europe only ？ which one is the winner ？
@@vegasrobaina1349 iFly looks nice but not very suitable for Europe. SD mapping and options are fabulous. Plus you get map updates every month. High value for money, and a pleasure to use. FF is more for IFR because of approach plates.
iFLy cannot compete in Europe, I guess not many people use it.
I used Skydemon for a year, now I'm using Foreflight. I'm facing renewal and I don't know which to choose. Thanks for the video.
Which one did you go for and why?
Thank you for these two videos- great analysis of the two apps! I use SD. Actual I also have a 6 Month free trail of FF. I only fligh VFR in Europe. In my opinion has the very easy and good handling in SD a very big advantage. Somewhat horrified I am with FF, that it is complicated to change the height per leg. Even if you have entered them via the individual waypoints, they are not shown in the vertical display.Also the airspaces are well represented in the vertical display of SD ... As you can see, I am clearly more enthusiastic about SD. But I don't fly IFR and I don't fly in the USA (so far)
Thanks Robert for the compliments! Have fun using SD and while flying out there! 🙂
You can have the glide range indicator in Sky Demon as well. It’s ON by default but only over water (not in Switzerland) if you don’t change the setting to “both”.
After using SkyDemon for a long time and ForeFlight for a shorter time ..I think VFR pilots used to SkyDemon definitely should stick to SD. If you are new to flying and choosing between one or the other, get ForeFlight. I have both because of the synthetic vision in ForeFlight but SkyDemon has way better cooperation with local maps like KSAB, DFS etc..for the local maps of small airfields. Agree with all pro and cons. I don’t fly in the us. Skydemon provide “ramp check certified” maps for all of Europe. (However the rules says you need a backup, maybe another iPad or in your phone). I would really encourage Skydemon to consider synthetic vision! ForeFlight (Boing) is so big so I wouldn’t count on them dealing with individual European organizations for integrating national maps, as skydemon has.
Hi Joakim, thanks for the great tip! Never realized this feature in SD... Seems to work fantastic as well :) Yep I also love how Skydemon integrates all the local maps, however FF has a number of VFR packages available for purchase as well. But I agree, SD is a great tool for VFR! Thanks again for your input on the glide range feature!!
Thanks so much for your hard work in doing a great job, I have both apps and like many i use FF for USA and SD for VFR europe,
i would love to hear your point of view is about flight planning and routing, In SD you Create a Route say for example LEMU > LFDI , your aircraft profile is applied to the route and you have a direct route. In FF we use the maps , enter your start and end airport and select your airplane. So far so good. Now in SD you can hit the warnings tab and review all the airspace that you are about to infringe on and make decisions, read the notams , and make changes - like altitude and deviation . Eventually you end up with a route that has no red warnings and all clear to file the flight plan to Eurocontrol. In Fore flight you have the route advisor , having entered your start and end destination click route and router advisor gives you the route. But that route will in the EU bust all the danger and restricted zones that SkyDemon warned me about. OK so I thought i would upgrade from Basic Plus to Professional Plus - so i could view the profile of the route. What is the point of this feature -?
One other comment is i find support from SkyDemon very good indeed , it is personal and always helpful ,
All the same , thanks for a great job,
Hi David, sorry for the late reply, I've been a little busy previously. Thanks for the great feedback! I see your point there, I personally don't use the route advisor in foreflight for VFR-flights as this is designed more for IFR-ops I think. In any case I have to say the way skydemon makes you aware of airspace that lies ahead on your route while planning and also while you're airborne is better in skydemon. But I guess foreflight will bring updates on that, their development team at least announced that they're working on implementing airspace warnings...
Hi, Thanks for the video. Did you maybe had a chance to use ForeFlight now, in 2021? Did it get better? Thanks!
Thanks for this very throughout comparison of both. Looking at the map quality / easier understanding of the whole situation with a glimps I've opted for SD first. I'm starting PPL so VFR only is how I'll use it.
Made a test run in simulator I'm pretty impressed with the quality and usefulness of the app. Also the flexibility of the subscription methods would help me as a newbie. :)
I'll check FF too (would be nice to have a 30 day trial for that) but if it's not _much_ better in some functions I'll stick to SD.
Update: yes there's a 30day trial for FF too I just need to get an apple tablet for that. Shame on FF for this but I try to solve it.
Nice comparison. I do not understand why you would need raster charts (RC) in Europe. I don’t remember that I was missing a frequency. On international flights RC’s are confusing. The vectorcharts of SkyDemon are brilliant, and they have the same look and feel for every country. This is a safety feature for me. According to EU-legislation you do not need RC’s. Above, as you know, SkyDemon has European IFR approach charts on board too (not Germany though). This is nice too, in the case your Jeppview does not cover the area. I just love SkyDemon, especially the estimates, and the TerrainSafe feature. You can also set the “separation corridor” if you wish. Regards from Leutkirch.
Hi there! Thanks for your comment and Sorry for my late reaction. I agree vector charts are the future and I try to use them more and more. Still I keep finding annotations, remarks, dedicated frequencies related to airspaces etc. that you wont‘t easily find on the vector charts or that aren‘t there at all (especially true in the US). By the way, foreflight has released improvements on their vector chart just a week ago, so you‘ll also find place labels for much smaller cities.
I love Leutkirch‘s airport, it‘s very comfortable for doing costums when arriving from Switzerland (my parents live in Munich) 🙂. You also have a great flying club with a modern fleet I think... 👍🏼
Hi
Interesting video. Thanks.
One very important asset is missing regarding SD. The capability to anticipate the next frequency simply on the vertical chart. It’s a very cool and safe feature especially when you are flying in a complexe zone/SIV area.
With it I was never surprised by a radio change frequency and I always anticipate ATC request. I don’t know if FF has the same ?
Cheers
I agree - this is a very helpful feature. I saw it in the video at one point but it was not really discussed. I would love to see a feature where the recommended active/monitor frequencies are displayed for those with either two radios or a radio with "dual watch" like the Trig TY91.
Great videos mate, good job! I would suggest some light background music for your future reviews like these. Good luck with the channel!
Thanks for the compliments & the tip ;)
@@ASWISSPILOT Really good videos - thanks for making them. I've subscribed and liked. Please don't add music - there are probably no two people on the planet with the same musical taste, and for those that want music, they can just play some with another app at the same time. Please, no background music!
@@dermick Thanks for the input! Yep I think the music is the thing that most people criticize in the video... I‘ll remember that for future videos 😉
No!!
Superb review - many thanks
I have used SkyDemon for years and have tried ForeFlight and Garmin Pilot but prefer SkyDemon - it’s just much easier to use and perfect for VFR.
Thanks for your comment David! Yep I think nothing beats Skydemon when it comes to ease of use! By the way, I‘ve also come across your videos, great job there! I worked at a small aerodrome as a teenager while finishing school and they also had a DR500 parked there in the hangar. Was always my dream airplane 😍
Maybe one day if I happen to come to England I‘ll pay you many beers and ask you to take you for a spin in your Président 😉
*EDIT:* Maybe let’s do the thing with the beers after the flying 😅
@@ASWISSPILOT You’ll be very welcome here!
That’s makes at least two people who’ve seen my videos!
Maybe someone already asked the same question…..
To be able to use all functions of ForeFlight in flight…..is it necessary to have a continuous connection to your provider?
In other words is it necessary/essential to have an iPad with Wi-Fi plus cellular?
Greetings…aus Kölle (EDDK)
Hiya buddy. At 22 mins 25 seconds you said you cannot get official country charts. On my SkyDemon I have full access to the National AIP’s which have all the charts you could want. I’ve just downloaded the Swiss maps to my iPad and I now have all the approach plates (which I can print) for, say, Zurich.
I like your way you do it. 👍The Informations were very useful .
Looking foreword to see more.
My aktive flying = retired, due to medical condition for now. 😕 I ˋ m a sim guy these days, hanging on to MSFS2020 . ? Ist there a way to connect SD or FF to it ?
Thanks for a short reply.
Greetings
Hi ;) thanks for the compliments! Sorry to hear you lost your medical ☹️ I haven‘t been using FS2020 for now (I think my computer might not be able to cope with the requirements). However I found this thread for foreflight and FS2020:
support.foreflight.com/hc/en-us/articles/204115275-How-do-I-connect-Microsoft-Flight-Simulator-FS-X-or-FS-2004-to-ForeFlight-?mobile_site=true
Hope that helps! Have fun ;)
YES! Thanks for replying - so fast. Very helpful for making the right decision ! - I googled googled... found nothing about it...but now I will go with FF.
I am very happy. Greetings
@@cmdrcumulus1938 Both can be connected to MSFS2020 as I've seen but a small payware 3rd party tool is required for around 6-10€.
Péter Szepesváry yeah thanks I installed msfs-bridge to connect to SD . -> connected to fs2020 sending data to ip... I tried to open it up in SD 3rd party option x-Plane and then fly x-Plane. SD shows waiting for simulator with an editions window ... with trail version only 30 min. gps data flow... hmmm. Stil waiting 🧐🤨 any ideas.?
Thanks
@@cmdrcumulus1938 I have not tried it yet (FYKI I'll just do it in the next hours :) ) but in SD forums there are topics how to connect. I'd start there.
Would you do one of these for Garmin Pilot? It's also available on Android + iOS and has pretty much global coverage.
Don't bother with Garmin Pilot for Android, because it has less features compared to it's iOS counterpart (perhaps, apple pays them to do so 💵) and it will lag, unless you have a powerful tablet. Just give it a try, because they offer free 1 month demo and you'll see it yourself. It's not meant to be used for VFR flying and people usually prefer it only if they have a garmin stack already installed in their airplane's dashboard. It will not accept traffic feed from anyone, but a garmin device (forget about stratux, skyecho and others). Very clunky design and it will also cost you much more.
Hi John
Thanks for your comment. I also have to say that I worked with Garmin Pilot for a little while and I wasn‘t too excited with the app either. There are good points of course, i.e that the app is very familiar to work with if you have modern on-board avionics i.e. GTN650/750. I might give it a second chance in the future, I‘ll keep your request in mind 😉👍🏼
im still debating??? so SD is pretty much worthless in the US?? i like sd more but if its not up to par in the us then what now??
Don’t go to the U.S. then. Seems like a very practical option for most :-)
for canada and usa .for flight is the best
:-)