Tekken is No Longer an Arcade Game... Goodbye Sticks?
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- Опубликовано: 26 апр 2023
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For me, arcade sticks for FG are the equivalent of steering wheels for racing games, they give u a better experience overall.
Dude! Very good analogy! I love it. It makes sense!
For me stick is the best quality. I have destroyed many controllers and they don't last long and cost even more when you keep replacing them.
That doesn't hold up though. Steering wheels are actually good controllers for racing games, while arcade sticks are pretty much the worst for fighting games.
I'd say we got used to some piece of trash for the longest time in this genre, as harsh as it may sound
@Havelmonsters_Slayer That's just wrong 😂. Controllers can't even compete with arcade sticks. The pad is way too small to consistently pick execution-heavy moves and arcades have way better mapping.
@@tzitzitzitzi1584 pads are faster than stick, thats why most young pros are on pad, hitbox or keyboard. if you grew up on pad, why switch to stick? and the mapping doesn't really matter when shoulder button binds are allowed
Stick is badass and the most fun to play so I’ll always use it.
true, once you are a stick player you just can't ho back
That’s exactly my thinking. It’s just more fun.
I was a pad player and I switched to stick. Holy cats is it leagues more fun. It is very badass.
That's what she said
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"most fun to play"
I have a question, if you’re aiming to become a pro tekken player is it advisable to buy stick? I have been playing tekken 7 on pad but have never really been able to reach a certain level of gameplay, very difficult to execute combos and other moves, especially a character like akuma is almost impossible.
I play on directional pad but there was always something more exciting about standing in front of an arcade screen, and using the stick against someone right next to you.
goodbye sticks? idk about that. sticks are just satisfying to hold and own, especially when they're attached to an attractive frame. i'm sure a lot of guys would go for sticks just for that.
Ayooooo
i sense a strong geyge energy lmao
We are talking about sticks right?
The longer the better ;)
That's what she said. I had an attractive frame, and it only gets better when she holds my stick.
I just love geeking out on arcade sticks, building custom ones, trying out different buttons and levers, that's the most fun part to me, especially considering that i am a tech guy
I learned stick first when i started playing tekken 7 in 2019 because i was always driven towards arcade feel of a fighting game (choldhood memories of the 90's when as a kids we used to play in arcade version of Tekken 2 ,that was before next generation consoles ,of that time like PSX and especially piracy, were common in Poland .Hard AF but the satisfaction after first electric was like nothing before .As TMM said,it is now a thing of the past sadly.For the past 3 months i switched for a mixbox style wsad controler and i was just blown away how easier,effortless some inputs are.The stick will be always in my mind as OG controller for tekken veterans and arcade nerds,but as fighting games evolve,so does players and controllers
I remember back in the day I thought of getting an arcade stick because I thought it would make me a better player. Then I started watching Wolfkrone playing C. Viper in SF4 with a pad and he was so extremely technical with her I couldn't believe it. I ditched the stick plans and stuck with controllers.
I don’t know how people play these games on pad lol😅
@@Psx806easy, we practice...alot
Is stick good? No.
Is stick fun to play with? Hell yeah it is.
Arcade stick just brings that oldschool fun from the gaming past.Its truly like a time machine.
See I just don't buy that stick is that much worse, if it was Knee and other top players would have swapped because results to them matter more. This is why they play characters that they might not enjoy as much as well, because they are better.
@@jonteguy its not much more worse,but there is clearly a difference in input speed you can make. i mean if you are Knee with 15+ years of experience,muscle memory with playing on korean lever stick and you are playing of a highest level,there is no point for him to switch to a totally different controller.If you look for example on a sf scene ,there you can see a lot of pro players are switching for a leverless controller past couple years.this kind of a controller makes bigger difference in a 2d fighers (you can so some shit that is impossible on a lever stick ) more than in slower paced tekken.
Not good compared to what? Pad? A good stick isn't inferior to pad. Some top players would say the best sticks are superior even.
I personally disagree. I think Stick feels way better for some games Tekken especially. of course other games have pad feel better but there's no reason imo for me to unlearn stick. I tried playing mix box on a few fighting games and could never replace my stick with most of them. only one did I main mix box.
Now it is not only fun to play, but also really fun to talk about it 😆
Indeed especially when he talks about sticks and balls
It definitely can take time to play a stick, similar to playing on an instrument, but once you get used to stick I think you can get extremely efficient. Particularly in the right hand the pressing of buttons feels alot more natural and intuitive. Something has to be said for the overall efficiency and effectiveness of a stick vs other solutions when 95% of the top players all use one. If a pad or alternative solution were really superior in efficiency then I think the top players would be using them to give them a competitive advantage. But currently only a slim minority of the most elite players (from japan, korea and pakistan) use a pad over a stick.
I teach in Japan and I've been to the arcades in Shinjuku, Ahkhabara and Takadanobaba. Very few Tekken 7 machines indeed remain. I found it hard to adjust to the stick to be honest. Very hard to execute various moves consistently.
I just recently transitioned to stick. Was using PAD since T7 launch. Sure, pad is faster in some ways but stick is just as capable. The most important benefits I noticed during the trasition are:
* More ergonomic. Bigger more natural movements with hand and wrist. Feels very comfortable.
* Easier access to buttons, ability to tap button with two fingers to avoid damage from Giant Swing. This is objectively superior to pad.
* Directions with stick is more intuitive which increases the likelihood that I land a good whiff-punish with qcf or iws moves.
* Faster and more consistent korean backdash(!!). On pad my KBD on player 2 side may be inconsistent because a thumb works harder than a hand/wirst I suppose.
* Much more fun and immersive experience. This is the biggest benefit, I've never had this much fun on T7. I get bored on pad now that I know stick.
I highly recommend the transition for those brave enough. You will lose to scrubbies in the beginning so steel yourself when they ki-charge you!
I've been playing Tekken in the arcades since 94. It was tough doing King throws, and Nina breaks on the cabinets. Of course i learned muscle memory for it. Now when Tekken 1 hit the og PSX it felt great. I used a Dualshock 4 controller on Tekken 7 for my PC.
I just used my Victrix FS on the Tekken 8 demo and it feels really good on it. I allready ordered the Otto v2 kit so i can get that Korean feel.
At this point it doesn't matter if it's a stick, hitbox, or controller. Just use what feels great to you.
@@PharoahsKingdom Indeed my friend.
I got a hori stick 3 years ago for $250 and I just could never use it, I would play 4 or 5 matches get triggered then switch to pad again, how long does it take to transition? I play Mishima so it feels even harder to learn I can’t wave dash for shit
@@vergil3800 I know exactly what you mean as I had the same experience but with Raven. While Raven doesn't have wavedash, she has the Wavu Ravu or snakedash which is somewhat similar. In my experience learning KBD and the Wavu Ravu was not the biggest obstacle. Those techniques were developed to a useful level within a month or two.
My biggest struggle was losing games because my brain wasn't wired to pull the lever down to block low attacks for example. The "easy" things lagged behind so one could say I was slower on stick when it came to the regular execution.
To remedy this I simply took a break and used pad for a few games to regain my confidence, then went back to stick when I felt brave enough. Dont torture yourself. Today I still switch between stick and pad depending on the mood. On a good day I am better on stick and on a bad day I am better on pad, just something I noted..
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@@jonashjalmen5232 thanks man I am buying the 8bit do pad later this week as my last good pad then I’m gonna try finally using my stick
Tekken is one of the few games that here I think learning stick does actually kinda matter. As someone playing on controller it can be kinda awkward doing 1+4 or 2+3 inputs because I have to like, bend my thumb to the side and hit it with the top of my thumb and the knuckle 😅 which always always results in me getting the wrong move
use binds on pad or switch to keyboard/hitbox
bro, have you heard of rebinding ? my binds:
l1 - 1+4
l2 - 1+2
r1 - 1+3
r2 - 3+4
u don't need the assist button and you don't have a rage art button, but that's better anyway to learn the game well
bind them to other buttons. Example i have ps4 controller --> R1=1+2, L1=3+4, R2 =1+4, L2=2+3.
Guy doesn’t know about binds
use claw grip or binds
lol that comment at the end "is Riddles 18?"
I just got a stick a few days ago specifically to improve my kbd, wave dash and electric. I have seen some improvements in just a few days but I also realize that practice carried over a bit back to my pad so I’m not sure if I will keep playing stick. Though I still have a feeling that those three specific skills are extremely unintuitive on pad and feel terrible to attempt with high speed
Those 3 skills are pretty ez on keyboard, better even on a machanical one.
Also went around to 5 Gigo arcades in Shinjuku and probably saw around 5 Tekken 7 cabinets. The new namco arcade in Akihabara has no Tekken machines. All of the old Tekken ones have been replaced with Gundam arcade games.
I feel more comfortable on stick
interesting video - much love main man!
I actually learned how to play tekken the old fashion way back in 2011 when our mall has only tekken 6 at that time learning Nina Williams and her IWS 1, backdashing and wavedashing for Armorking. Yeah like The mainman said if you are a tekken fanatic and played in arcades it's hard to get used to but if you get the hang of it it's actually more fun to play with the stick. yeah he is absolutely right.
I was in shinjuku about a month ago and it was very hard to find cabs unfortunately
I always tell friends who want to get into fighting games to just use controller if that's what they have. It's hard enough to get people to play fighters and learning the stick is like a second game
Considering 90% of the world is right handed almost the whole FGC is at a disadvantage, arcades came out of the 70's and early 80's and there wasn't a fighting game in sight as it was all space shooters, side scrollers and platforms with the occasional light gun game and racing game which all had there own peripherals so as for 90% of the cabs they had a stick on the left as it was the least important part of the game and all these cabs got repurposed with new games, they were candy cabs before candy cabs were a thing. With this being said players have been thinking they were learning how play stick and learn the moves when in reality all they were doing is learning how to be ambidextrous, they would have had a shorter learning curve if they stopped playing FG for year and learnt how to right with there left hand.
Arcades may be all but gone, but I hope arcade stick culture is here to stay and thrive, it’s hella cool. I switched to stick years ago and it made me a way better player.
I never even played much on arcade, but I use a stick now because it's just more fun. It's also much easier on my beaten up fingers and wrists (after making the throw a bit longer). I have a very wide palm so it's just more comfortable.
With stick you can practice and practice and eventually get fast, precise input.
D-Pad is easy, but there are limitations, for instance it’s the worst one for b,f,b,f type inputs, or full circle (but sticks are great for this).
Hit box is like the best of both. Without practice, hit box is better then D-Pad. With practice, it’s better and easier than stick and better and more agile then D-Pad.
What do you think about the Microsoft Series X controller for fighting games? PS5 better?
I only bust open my Fightstick when I play my mains Negan, or Lei in person because I have a dead button that does nothing and i like pressing it loudly when i hit rage to bait them into thinking im attempting rage art. Or whenever I play king online, he is the only exception i ever make to use it.
I just find it hard on pads to do the diagonal input. For example with a ps4 pad I can't do a pwgf because my thumb need to press down and froward at the same time, and idk it jut doesn't work as well as a xbox 360 controller or a stick, that I have no problem with.
i personally find it impossible to quickly do b,f (jin, kazumi) or f,b(bryan, lars) on a pad
Same with jet upper and dash blocking. So so true. Even quarter circles are easier and faster on stick
For me is like:
Keyboard > Stick > D pad (specially old models idk about ps5 pads though)
I agree pad is fast, especially for blocking and fff. But I’ve always personally felt more accurate on stick. I can electric like it’s a regular move, KBD, wavu etc very fast one stick.can’t KBD or wavu at all on pad . I can electric on pad but can’t seamlessly integrate it into to my movement like I do on stick. To be fair I switched to stick in T6 and have drilled these things since then so maybe it’s comfortable. (I use Korean bat top btw)
Pad is the absolute worst. If you play the game on pc with pad, you are going to get destroyed in the higher ranks by players with sticks. Hitbox is the best.
lol im the opposite in our place we've had tekken 5 6 7 arcades through the decade and ive been playing them in stick but i cant even do kbd or wavedash consistently maybe its because im not fond of the ball top but thats that while i tried pad and its like the easiest thing and is comfortable for me
Atta boy riddles for giving us the clips needed
I've never once played a fighting game in the arcade. I'm not super young, either, just isn't popular where I'm from. I still bought a stick to try out and I find it way easier to play with than pad, since all the buttons are laid out in front of you. Despite its roots dying out, the stick lives on.
Best video you ever did. Hands down! Or should I say, hands off?
I mean top players like Knee and Arslan won EVO with korean sticks so I don't think it really matters as long as it feels comfortable.
Stick is the most fun though and good luck playing mishima on pad for any length of time. It's easier to play a longer session on stick than wearing out your thumbs on a pad. I'll have to disagree with him about Japanese stick vs Korean lever. It really depends on what kind of Korean lever you go for. Japanese sanwa sticks seems to be pretty uniform but korean levers can vary widely between the different options. Sanjuks v6 I feel is very precise as well as being faster than a sanwa. But I have tried other Korean lever's that where pretty god awful. the round gate takes some getting used to as well.
He's right about the US. In TN, there was maybe 1 Tekken cabinet? Majority of the time we played on consoles because it was more convenient and more accessible here in the states
Pad player mostly. Switched to stick for Tekken solely because electrics are 10000% easier on stick. Then, I got good at doing electrics on my Ps4 controller… Never looked back.
It's a shame.
As fighting game newbie im trying to get stick/hitbox soon just because its fun and cool and unique. I will do it.
get a hitbox unless u just like the nostalgia of an arcade stick
that last third of the video was painful...
Idk I started playing these games with a pad even back on sega genesis, ps1 after I bought a stick I never went back I hate trying to input anything with an analog or d pad I feel like having a stick is much more precise and efficient that rolling your thumb on a dpad. Buttons are also so much harder with a controller. I havent tried one yet but I think the hitbox/mixbox would probably be the best controller though.
gonna be sad not seeing a bunch of dudes clamming together around tekken arcade machines anymore
I remember playing on a keyboard like 10 to 8 years ago, and while I could see the appeal, I didn't think it would get popular, back then it was anything but, or perhaps I'm misremembering. Though to be fair, now there are more fighting games on PC, and some dedicated gaming keyboards, like Razer's Ornata series for example, can give you the clickyness you want. BTW I wonder how recent those switch-based keyboard really are.
I haven't had much time to put into fighting games in general those last years, but I'm seriously considering a stick if coming back. Still, I wish Sony worked on improving the switch-based D-pad from the Vita instead of killing the idea completely. Unless the Dualsense does have such a D-pad but I doubt it.
It really depends on what kind of experience you're looking to get. If you want to push yourself execution-wise, go with a stick. Plus, you have a gazillion ways to customize it to get the expereince you truly want. But it's no longer a necessity to enjoy fighting games, especially since most fighters are being designed now to be used with pads.
keyboard is amazing, I can do Jack 5 circle unblockable 10/10 times,p1 wavedash is super fast, p2 takes a little more practice and it's the opposite for backdash, electric is only about timing - directional input is easy, arcade stick is probably more fun but I have really good keyboard and don't play everyday so no reason to switch for me
with a K-lever movement is soooo quick and natural for tekken, with a hitbox u can probs get 10-15 % better output from the hardware.
I've been using stick to play fighting games since when I was a kid playing Tekken 3 in the arcade. Fast forward to Tekken 7 and online, I can say I never truly found a stick that replicated the same accuracy and overall feeling of the old arcade machine. I guess it's the online.
I will probably switch to a hitbox in Tekken 8.
" .. was this time wasted? Not if you had fun .." - Absolutely!
If it doesn't get any kind of arcade release, then I'd be sad to hear it. Pinball has had a good resurgence in public. Wish tekken 7 was also in more spots in the US though. At one point I wanted a fight stick to use at home but definitely still enjoy tekken with a controller. Only bad thing is the analog stick can't accurately excute direction always and the rubber grip can tear.
Interesting. I have not used stickers since i was a kid, i play as Lei Wulong and sometimes it is vwry difficult to do some inputs, even basic stuff like 1+2, and reason is why my hands are large, im a very tall guy, and i assume doing that on sticker would be fairly easier.
Stick*
3:52 is cursed TMM
Nothing beats the fun from playing on a arcade stick
I always been a Pad player in all my life but i admit i bought a hitbox at the evo because it felt to be so powerfull when mastered
I think hitbox is gonna be a big deal for Tekken 8 competition
I remember playing fighting games in arcades. You would develop blisters between your fingers. They were not at all comfortable.
Sticks are so much fun. Looks cool as fuck, feels good to execute stuff on them, frankly it’s quite ergonomic compared to pad, people who don’t know about fighting games are always curious and ask questions. I’m glad I picked it up as a hobby alongside Tekken. But yes, there’s very little real advantage in game.
Sticks for the men who exprienced the golden age of arcade.
I find some inputs are just easier on the stick. Giant swing for me is much easier on the stick. And I can't do a rolling death cradle on control pad at all.
But as long as I'm not playing King, then I prefer pand.
learned stick a year ago feel pretty decent now and imo its easier to play than on pad.
Stick good for tekken?
I play hitbox, everybody just needs to box up
Im a pad player since tekken 3, i bought of the best arcade sticks in the world the qanba pearl its really premium in everything, it was hard to learn it but i learned it and as soon as i learned it I switched back to pad coz the stick will never be as fast and precise as the pad.
I gave up on sticks after like a week of trying them, went right back to pad. It felt like I was starting from scratch all over again within the week of using it and I didn't like that lol.
I bought a stick 2 years ago because I wrecked pads while playing tekken. After a few pads, I just switched to stick and never looked back. I like it very much and as TMM says, it's very fun. It's very expensive to keep buying ps5 pads considering they "break" quite easily.
They break easily? What a load of bull. You probably just throw them across the room out of rage for getting cheesed by a Lucky Chloe.
@@dhulinko9904 they do, stop getting defensive
i've heard of a huge amount of people switching to stick or hitbox just because they go through ps4/5 pads like nothing and even get blisters. i recall one guy had to replace the pad every year from playing for example
@@dhulinko9904 The left direction on the D-pad stopped working on two of my controllers. Controllers can break just from regular use. I think you've only projected your own behaviour here.
Lmaooo shut ur asss up Fym they break easily 😂 you smack em around raging, thats why😂
Arcades are a thing of the past and that’s sad to say. Wish they were still being made. R.I.P.
Bryan’s taunt jet upper
Why not make cabinets that use Mixbox pads?
@4:10 AYYYYYOOOOOOOOO!!!! PAUSSEEE! Lol
Me who play on on screen control in cloud gaming app
MaximillianDood did a video on controllers before and i feel like he put it best. The arcade stick is more of a nostalgia thing but at the end of the day, it just comes down to personal preference. Growing up, i only played on PS so the pad just feels natural to me. I have an arcade stick now but i still stick to pad just cause it feels better. But i like to bust out the stick from time to time
I haven’t played Tekken since the arcades back then. Going to give Tekken 8 a try and got my obsidian 2. By far the most fun I’ve had in a while so I’ll stick to stick. Maybe give hitbox a try later but I’ll go cheap to see if I like it. Not too big on the meta way tho
I will never go back to play pads.
In a game that rewards time played stick has an advantage maybe not on a technical basis but moves feel kinetic, you feel as though you *perform* a move rather than *input* a move. Stick alongside button's also removes any strain to finger's or stress to thumbs, I've heard many pad player's stop playing from their thumbs hurting/ getting sore but a stick is a pleasure for hour's and hour's. I was only talking to two other stick players yesterday who were lording the same sentiments about sticks, definitely don't see them as out right having no advantage it's not that simple for sure. Not to mention some folk literally buy a controller every year because dpads get worn-out. Another thing to consider is that sticks are future tournament proof, with capcom forcing hitbox to make changes to make them tournament legal who knows who will follow suit or what the official rules will be. But stick will always be legal
Exactly!, a lot of pad players hate the DS5 and have no choice but to use it for PS5.
Stick vs pad
Stick is slower sure, but it's more precise (feeling the click on the direction you're pressing) and doesn't hurt your fingers the way the dpad does
But yea hitbox/keyboard is just overall the best controller
Stick is faster in the right hands. Much faster.
@@roderickgrech9928 moving your wrist is slower than your thumb
@@ZiyaB3ast no it is not. you use your thumb on stick to do B and palm to do F (on p1 side) that makes it faster
Here in Asia there’s still a lot of stick players, tho hitbox style controllers are getting popular
didnt official sticks just didnt sell also in europe & were prey pricey??
so few were shipped there? which sticks got no ead zone too
Sticks are so much more comfortable than pad
I am way more consistent on Stick than i am on pad, and thats after i grew up playing on pad, granted it took me 2 months to be better on stick than on pad. But i refuse to use mixbox because of how Tekken originated, I am willing to be "left behind" to enjoy playing in a way thats most fun to me
In the US, if you want a good stick, get something from Etokki if you grew up in the arcade era in the US, Korean and American sticks are the same and feel identical. Though we also had Japanese arcade machines brought into the US, so some even from time to time you might see a Japanese joystick but overall, we are a minority.
I'm just glad we wont need to wait for an arcade release to finish "testing" again like tekken 7. Those 3 years of waiting were very painful.
4:47 this gonna be taken out of context so many times now
I think that unless new fighting games are designed with sticks in mind, they'll just become (more of) an obsolete niche. what I mean by that is making optimized mechanics based on timing, and adjusting the timing to what you would expect from a lever motion. adding to that, making moves have a minimum duration. for example, if a move has a minimum of 5 frames of input time and the first and last input are in a 3f window, the game waits the last two frames for the move to come out. and with recovery, for example, you could have a "secondary" recovery period wich moves have to wait before coming out, and so on. you could even separate characters based on different styles: characters that rewards fast execution, and characters that rewards precise execution. you could apply these mechanics to the "precise" characters and balance it out based on that, for example. I mean, there must obviously be not only one, but many solutions for making levers competitively desirable. but with the new generation of fighting games coming, I guess it's just not in the developers interest to create mechanics like that, as levers are expensive and they profit more by appealing to the broader audience (wich plays leverless)
which*
characters that reward*
@@KarlKognition thank you, I'm not native
i’m still gonna use stick cuz it’s just fun. wow after watching this i kinda regret getting a pink ball top cuz now i see it
i love hitbox,i never liked stick only in the arcade days bc that was that.Pad is my second.
Tbh i Always use stick for this tiny bit If extra fun compared to my hitbox. In the end for most people its all about fun.
regardless of it not being "optimal" 8/10 of the top players use stick so obviously its not something holding you back from being top tier.
Exactly
An elegant weapon, for a more civilized age..
Stick(or hitbox) feels a thousand percent superior to regular controllers, at least for me. There is no way I will ever reach max potential on a ps5 or Xbox controller, it is unbelievably uncomfortable to make inputs with buttons, and the dpad makes my thumb cramp up
Is it just me I can't do KBD on keyboard. My fingers are slower than my wrist despite being a programmer for 20 years
"Was this time wasted?"
"Not if you had fun"
Damn, real.
I value fun factor the most so I'm probably always gonna play on it.
Sticks are difficult for me when 2P facing left.
While running EWGF is easy on stick than on keyboard
is it even possible to use steve's gattling gun without a stick? lol
4:09 HUEHUEHUEHUEHE
I can't do efgw consistently on keyboard idk why i try expensive keyboards and cheapest one too i can only doo 2efgw but only sometimes... but i wanna try ardace stick maybe it will be better
Playing Jin or Mishimas on pad is just hard and will hurt your hand imo. The pad is simply not ergonomic for those movements. And its simply not as fun or natural to play on KB or Hitbox. Stick is not going anywhere.
never played in arcades and switched to stick for fun a year ago... inputs are way crispier... I'll never go back
Honestly tho', I've never played anything with a stick and I've been trying one for a few weeks and it's a completely brand new way to play, and it's just really hard.
Many of us that been around since the jump, had to get used to stick because all the best versions of SF, Tekken, MvC, etc. could only be found at your local arcade at the time. My advice, play on whatever perpetual that you feel most comfortable, don't feel pressured to use “X” device just because “it's the fkn best!” or you wanna be cool like MM ✌
Stick has its own charm