What's the difference NOW between Intel Xeon and i7 i9 for CAD Workstations
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- You might think you know the answer to this, and you very well might, but the goal posts shift on this topic on a regular basis and the advice from years ago is no longer 100% accurate. So here's an update on how Xeons and Core i7 and i9 etc fair up against each other in 2020. FYI this is a talking & advice piece, there is no physical product demonstrations here. If you want to see high end Xeons being used in anger, head on over to the gaming channels where you can see them being tested on Winzip and Excel.
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#Tech3D #Intel #Xeon #CPU #Workstations
Dear all!! - If you're interested in this area, you may then be interested to know that I have now developed and released the worlds most comprehensive FREE benchmarking test for Autodesk Inventor with a global online leaderboard. See the announcement video here ruclips.net/video/Xck3lvuMRjM/видео.html and check out the leaderboard here invmark.cadac.com/#/ this shows which CPUs are best for Autodesk Inventor which generally means Autodesk software across the board.
I'd just like to say, thank god you exist in a swamp of content made for people who do nothing with computers except play video games. It's been a battle all my life against people who, in my opinion, fundamentally don't understand what computers are used for.
I swear I can't stand those youtuber that cares about content creation only. All they do is Apple and that's it. About reviewing product they just recycle the same script companies give them.
Yes I'm so tired most all assume your using a performance workstation for gaming.
this is clearly the most informative and qualified channel when it comes to cad workstations.
nothing against all other computer hardware channels. but the benchmarks of the cpu aparrently dont tell the whole story especially when they are always chosing for gaming or "worksation" in general where multi core performance is needed.
without this channel i wouldnt know about cad specific hardware.
This is great! I wish you had the Ryzen 9 in this video though I would love to see how that would stack up.
I generally agree, but the paradigm seems to be shifting again. Pure CAD usually was not able to use more than a few cores well. It’s more of a mixed bag now with some workflows benefitting from cache or core counts at unexpected points.
The software landscape is changing. I used to find single threaded bottlenecks everywhere. At one point, I was even catching what I assume was SolidWorks draw calls for edge display hitting CPU bottlenecks and other oddities. A bunch of stuff like that all got sorted over the last 5 years or so. I’ve even compared on the same Quadro to verify that bottleneck was dealt with.
One of my biggest surprises was when in my own testing I found my dual LGA2011 workstation running circles around a similarly clocked i7 in single threaded parts of the workflow, 5+ years ago. Was very likely the much larger cache.
Now I’m finding that CAM software is actually able to hit near 100% utilization on 28 cores.
In conclusion, I wouldn’t write off lower clocked higher core count Xeons with more cache, I/o, etc. Yes, they cost more and they aren’t for every workflow, but there is real benefit to the architecture at times and software is starting to utilize it better. In the near future, I’m expecting the sweet spot to be a bit higher core counts/cache with things like the 13900k doing well so long as the software and scheduler get along.
Honey, lemon and ginger with hot water Neil. Fucking STAT.
Excellent points, excellent advice. Ansys HFSS also discouraged HT a few short years ago. But as you say, today is different. I've asked my Ansys rep directly about this.. and of course his formal response was to point me to the published guidelines on the matter.. but off the record says the software has improved over the years and now handles HT better.
Incredibly useful, thank you so much. I've been given the go-ahead to spec out a new workstation. There were SOO many "gold" "Silver" "Bronze" options. I feel like I have a better idea of what that all means. I'll have another look, glad I didn't just go with the gold.
and ... important it will be to know what you do, what you need, and to not let yourself
be oversold on hardware that won’t make you more productive. if you know how your software works you may know what hardware you may require.
Well, I still wouldn't recommend using an Xeon-E Desktop CPU unless you really need to use ECC. The biggest difference and the most important one is the boosting behaviour.
With Xeon-E CPU in general, the CPUs will be boosted according to the Intel spec. This means that, that maximum boost clock will be only maintained for 8 seconds then it will default back to the base clocks. Whereas with the Core line, the manufacturers just do whatever they want and set the boost to unlimited. This makes for being a bit more creative in selecting motherboard, cooling and casing as the CPUs can get quite hot. But more importantly, they can maintain the boost clock indefinitely. This means you would end up getting way more performance by sticking with the Core line, and making the Xeon-E simply not worth it, unless you really need ECC. And considering how much focus you placed on the boost clocks, this information is extremely important and should be taking into consideration when recommending an Intel CPU.
Do note that this "unlimited boost behaviour" is done my motherboard vendors in general. The big OEMs probably don't do this, but this information is nearly impossible to get.
For notebooks it is better to base your choice on the base clock of the CPU instead of the boost frequency, for exactly the same reason. Notebook CPUs almost always stick to the Intel spec (boosting for about 8 seconds) and then falling back to the base clocks.
I don't know if this is true for all Xeons, but I was able to set my Xeon-E to boost until hit hit 100℃ using ThrottleStop
Excellent Video Neil, it's been a while since I checked ARK, thanks for the update.
Thanks Leo. Good work over on the Inventor thread, that's what kicked me into doing this one.
I don't understand why the metal (eg gold) Xeons are woefully inadequate for workstations. I saw someone selling a Dell workstation with GOLD 6254 which has 18 cores. Unless you are playing games it is great for work which can be computed in parallel. This chap sounds very knowledgeable. So I hope to learn why I'm mistaken.
Great informative video, with no knowledge of this subject u helped me understand the difference between core/xeon processors, thanks
Core count should be part of this discussion.. which I think is the most obvious advantage of Xeon over Core.. I mean at least for large workloads that can be parallel processed.
no, not for CAD !!! Try to use floating point, parallelism, try to use 512bit vector and with one Xeon or XE core obtain what you obtain from 4cores of core series or AMD cores.
So I'm going to buy an i9 10900k I will have to use it for 2 3 months for ansys is it good option an affordable for me
Thank you very much...! Good info I get today...! Thanks again...!!!!
The difference is ECC memory. If you're doing CAD for an engineering project where lives are at stake, you'd be nuts not to use ECC memory.
Appreciate the info as always!
Excellent video, nobody on you tube explaines it so simple!
Wonderful!! To see a tech channel NOT focused on gaming!
Thanks for the update on processors... do you have any advice for workstation laptops, that seems to be the only item my company will buy as we are mobile most of the time?
Yep, I'll knock out a video on that soon
I don't know if it's still relevant, but I have the ThinkPad p52 with the Xeon processor, and I'm really satisfied with it
Yes i'm wondering about Dell 5750
www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/workstations-isv-certified/precision-5750-mobile-workstation/spd/precision-17-5750-laptop/xctop575017us_vivp?configurationid=5bcbc823-f536-4c5e-ade3-787ec1e9851d
Me: *Watching this after I bought a w 2223 yesterday. o.o "oops"
Hey Neil, can you tell me which type of processor would handle this process better in Inventor (Xeon or Intel 'i-')?
BOM editing.
One of the most time consuming processes happens when I copy-and-paste or drag-to-fill an entire column in the BOM consisting of more than 500 discrete parts (with multiple quantities). So for example, after sorting the bom and auto-filling the 'Item' with numbers, I copy those numbers and paste them into another column, that can take up to 3 minutes to process. Do you have experience to say which type of processor will do that quicker, and how much quicker? Another scenario is when dragging an item at the top of a column all the way to the bottom in the same BOM. Can you tell me which processor type is best, Xeon or Intel 'i-' type? Thanx...Chris
No mention of ondie cache? Maybe I missed it but kinda important, no?
CAD tool on single core? All need to do on this context, is to change your SW. From AutoCAD to CATIA ??? Just an opinion...
It'll take a lot for me to upgrade from my 6900k, especially given the fact I paid $1,100 for it when it was new 😖 Glad Xeon finally, sort of, caught up with the i7/i9 lineup.
Did Autodesk buy Ansys or are they just in some odd like 'friends with benefits' relationship?
🙂 Thanks for the info
that was soo helpful thanks a lot
So intel have made choosing a processor more confusing then ever? Lots to compare. But one thing is the price between xeon and i cores. thoughts?
Hello There,
Thank you for your nice explanation.
I have posted a Question on the Inventor forum for the selection of a CPU and a graphics card.
Will I9-12950HX perform better than Xeon E-2276M, and what card would perform better A4500 or A5500 if both are 16GB.
Great video, Thank you.
What's your opinion on which is better?
10th Generation Intel® Core™ i9-10885H Processor with vPro™ (2.40 GHz, up to 5.30 GHz with Turbo Boost, 8 Cores, 16 Threads, 16 MB Cache)
or
Intel® Xeon® W-10855M Processor with vPro™ (2.80 GHz, up to 5.10 GHz with Turbo Boost, 6 Cores, 12 Threads, 12 MB Cache)
Not a single benchmark and you left out AMD products.
You have blinded yourself to applications that use a lot of RAM, and therefore may be blind to the single most important aspect of Xeon over Core in such cases.. NUMA capability to share processing over large memory sets.
You're making such good points untill you poo poo the idea of anyone needing lots of RAM. I have 384 GB RAM and wish I had more. Look harder, the need is out there, very specialized needs, yes, but as real and critical as any other design need.
Very good video 👍
Just ordered this from dell . I needed a new laptop for cad design . Is there anything you would change ? Thanks .
No FGA
32GB DDR4 Memory,4X8GB,2666,Non-ECC,SoDIMM
M.2 1TB PCIe NVMe Class 40 Solid State Drive
Qualcomm QCA61x4A 802.11ac Dual Band, 2x2, Wireless Adapter + Bluetooth 4.2
7740 Smart Card, Fingerprint reader, & NFC
E5 C13 Power Cord 1M for North America
Safety/Environment and Regulatory Guide (English/French Multi-language)
Qualcomm QCA61x4A 802.11ac Dual Band, 2x2, Wireless Adapter + Bluetooth 4.2 Driver
6 Cell 97 Whr Long Life Cycle Lithium Ion Polymer Battery(3 Years Warranty)
Intel Xeon E-2286M, 8 Core Xeon, 16M Cache, 2.40GHz up to 5.00GHz Turbo, 45W, vPro
No Bracket
Windows 10 Pro for Workstation (4 Cores Plus) Multi - English, French, Spanish
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No Option Included
US Order
Dell Limited Hardware Warranty Plus Service
ProSupport: Next Business Day Onsite, 3 Years
Thank you choosing Dell ProSupport. For tech support, visit //support.dell.com/ProSupport or call 1-866-516-3115
No Carrying Case
Not ENERGY STAR Qualified
No AutoPilot
No UPC Label
Dell Precision Optimizer
CMS Software not included
Intel ME Disabled
Resource Media not Included
Microsoft(R) Office 30 Days Trial
Internal US English Dual Pointing Backlit Keyboard
Keyboard Lattice
No Additional Hard Drive
Regulatory Label included
FCC Label
No Docking Station
No Mobile Broadband Card
Intel XEON Processor Label
No Accessories
Intel Xeon E2286M, 8 Core Xeon, 16M Cache, 2.40GHz up to 5.00GHz Turbo, 45W, vPro
No Additional Hard Drive
No Additional Hard Drive
Not selected in this configuration
Shipping Material for DAO Shuttle Box
System Shipment Material Mobile Precision
SHIP,NBK,DAO,SHUTTLE,7740
SHIP,NBK,WW,MIN,7740
Quick Setup Guide for Mobile Precision 7740
SupportAssist
System Driver for Mobile Precision 7740
Dell(TM) Digital Delivery Cirrus Client
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Waves Maxx Audio
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Bottom Cover
No RAID
E5 240W 7.4mm Lot 6 PCR, Liteon
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Hello Neil, would there be time for you to do some recommendations on a new fast laptop for Inventor and/or Revit these days?
What did you get?
Hello everybody 🖐 I have a questions,wich is the best i7-12400f+RTX 3060 or Xeon 2970v3+Quadro M4000 ??? Im architect,i work with Cad,Sketchup,Lumion. Waiting for your opionion.Many thanks 🙂
What's different with iris
Hello, I'm a student and for CFD on Ansys, I'm thinking of i9 10900k as Its affordable option for me.
If I go for Xeon it'll be very costly, and for such cost, I only have to use it for 5 6 months. Is it good?
Hi Neil, very helpful for someone like myself looking to build my first workstation who’s is quite new to the subject of hardware/operation.
My workflow consists of 3D modelling and rendering along with 2D work: Rhino 3D and Vred, Photoshop and Illustrator, Indesign, etc.
I’m currently looking at x3 options for the CPU and would be extremely grateful for any advice:
1) Xeon W2245 (3.9 - 4.5; 8 cores)
2) intel i9 (3.5 - 4.6; 12 cores)
3) Threadripper 3960X (3.8 - 4.5; 24 cores)
I’m aware that the i9 doesn’t support ecc but don’t know how important this really is.
Any advice would be very much appreciated!
great video
Hello,
Would you recommend an i7 11700k or i9 10900k for Autocad, revit, Lumion.. many thanks
Ryzens are good now, but all the big advantages they have over Core processors seem to lie in multi-threaded applications?
Quite right, although the newer ones are pretty good at single threaded. Problem is they're not being taken up by the workstation vendors so its difficult to find them in Dells etc. Probably something to do with contractual obligations with Intel.
@@Neil3D More like the workstation vendors had contracts with Intel and didn't foresee AMD kicking butt like it is. Just wait...
And why buy a workstation when it is so easy to build one ?
TechGuy big corporations aren’t building there own office pc’s they usually are leased are bought outright from , dell,hp,lenovo.....
Hp zbook g5 mobile workstation
I need it for programing, and design
Xeon e2176m vs i9 8950hk
What's your suggestion, or you don't advice me anyone for my job.
Thanks
Hi im planning to buy a used 5 yrs old workstation laptop with Xeon 1276M + Quadro P1000 for $500 for cad works and learning Inventor and revit. Is it worth it?
or 2 yr old i5 10300h + 1650ti for $500
or new i5 1235u + 3050ti for $700
very out of date compared to these monsters 9th-12th gen cpus
i was using a 3930 which i got 4 years ago i didnt do my research though so i thought it was new and thought it was used which was why it was so cheap but it was so cheap cause it was old
i found out the same year i got it months later it was a old cpu
for me copying tv show dvds took 5 mins for each episode and when i would skip through different scenes in my editor it would have a delay and rendering would take long say a hr video took like 40mins
i upgraded 2 months ago to a 12400 and i no longer get delays previewing and rendering for the same length video takes 10mins my chip was 150
and im using a PRO B660M bought for 125
and my temps maxes in 60s thats when rendering
before i would get to the 70s with my old chip
and copying dvds eps take now 2 mins each
my virus scans are faster to
the reason i didnt upgrade to 12900 is cause it wasnt a big upgrade from the cpu i got now
and the amazing thing is my cheap is a i5 model years ago in the era that my 3930 it was no i5s that could compete with that this goes for all i5s before the 10th gen i5s was always seen as the mid models
now i5s since 10th gen can compete with the i7s it is no longer a big difference in performance like it used to be
hi guys please enlighten me, would i7 work on mobile (laptop) workstation, rather than expensive xeon cpu; even if i don't have the e.c.c. memory?
Have you checked the new 32/64 core ryzens Neil?
I'm aware of them but there's no chance I'll ever get my hands on them, they're all sent out to the gaming channels. I've tried to make contacts within AMD but they're just not interested.
@@Neil3D That's genuinely surprising given the high core count AMD CPU's are being targeted toward productivity and professional applications, I have a feeling though that the Ryzen 3000 based 16 core or 8 core AM4 chip will smash the 8 core intel Xeons for close to the same price.
@@ChimpyChamp All you have to do is look at the Geekbench scores.
Will it work for after effects and element 3D and motion graphics
What's the issue with RYZEN ? I'm a Phd student and will be doing lots of work on CST and Ansys doing antenna simulations. I have sent a Ryzen Threadripper 3960X based config to my IT team. Is there anything i need to be worried about ?
Things change over time, as new products are released the landscape can change. But at the moment AMD do not have a good reputation for software & driver reliability, at a low budget level that's not much of an issue but at enterprise level that's not acceptable. But as they're releasing new generations of Ryzen they're now beginning to catch up with and arguably take over Intel with performance, but whether the new stuff is reliable enough to run in enterprise is an unknown.
I buy second hand Xeon workstation, put SSD and RAM and Video RX570 /from miner fot 60$/ = result is cheap gaming PC
I just tried to configure one in the LENOVO website as a solo builder / designer to expensive and even with 20% off on sale still to expensive
rather the RYZEN 7 route
drafting is hard most large firms now go offshore it's cut throat in australia
Should I gey Ryzen or intell for my work station?
Intel
Where did you get the info that the i9 and the xeons are the same chip? Can you send me a link? I have just never seen this before?
I’m not sure if Intel have or ever would come out and confirm it, but there’s tons of press articles saying this is the case. It’s also logical. They’re not gonna have two different fab processes which mfg the exact same specs but then just brand them differently on packaging, that makes no sense. But it’s widely reported as common knowledge, documented by third parties who possibly have contacts who’ve confirmed it, but personally there’s no doubt in my mind. There are many xeons that are unique and not shared with a core sku though.
I just don't see how that could be possible. Wouldn't the architectures be completely different with a Xeon vs a core processor? I tried to do some digging but I couldn't find anything confirming this.
@@Neil3D Its Zeon's are also way more expensive by the looks of it. Am I wrong?
@@Neil3D Zeons also look way more expensive, no?
Will it be good to go if using CFD Xeon 1290 p
what about i9 10900k
affordable option for me
Why does my slow i7 quad core 7820hq score higher in single core on Cinebench than the xeon 48 core intel 8168 cpu?
Thanks Neil. All useful info. Rest that croaky voice. Cheers. Jim
casual 70,000 xeon cpu
Bias review for xeon...
You have nice ficus in background like mine.
lol yey!
Hi plz tslk to me in
OMG, core frequency? Who cares? Not relevant. Stop making videos about hardware, please.
No. Nobody watches the software videos anymore, they're not worth my time. I have the analytics and objectively more people are interested in hardware than CAD tips & tricks. But more importantly, I did that for 5 years straight and got bored to death with it, and just don't want to do that any more.
I release a CAD challenge it gets 4k views and flat lines, I release a mobile workstation video at the same time, it gets 13k and is on a fast incline. I create a membership program where I start doing the Inventor tips & tricks again, and only 100 people join, that's the interest people have in software videos, if the majority of people see my Inventor videos as being only worthy of being free and no more valuable than that, then it isn't worth my time doing them unfortunately.
Coming back to this. I just yesterday released a video discussing the removal of the Quadro brand from Nvidia. That video in 2-3 days time will have more views than the last CAD challenge I did on the channel several months ago. Hardware is very relevant, there's exponentially more interest in it than software videos and a people who watch software videos don't stick around.