I have no words... thank you for this very informative video - though I am hurt, you brought a very good point: to still respect and not hate them because they truly believe what they are doing
@23:26 this So true. My review teacher once shouted at me (and stopped herself midway) when I asked her about a Bible verse we hadn’t gone over in class - but was talking about the same topic we had gone over, just because it didn’t quite align with how they had taught us
Thank you for this resource. I found out last night that my wife has been recruited into SCJ (and what SCJ is). It was so obvious to me from the outset that it is a cult. I'm frightened for my wife and how she might bring my kids up with these ideas. I'm desperate to learn anything I can. Already reading Combatting Mind Control and have also purchased Freedom of Mind. I'll do anything to help her.
just left SCJ, and my husband had the same worries as you about me and our children. ultimately I decided to research SCJ, first because their doctrine is a whole new bible kind of difficult to believe, second, my husband wouldn't leave me alone about the cult talk, and I thought that if I was going to be a member of that place, I must be sure that this is the right place for me and my family, so I start researching and came to the conclusion that they are a cult. mainly because of changes in the doctrine of the fulfilled reality that they teach now, I found out that, what they teach now is different from their past teachings. it may be difficult for you to understand what I am trying to say since you've never studied with them before. but do a little research on that and share it with her. don't expect her to do the research, they strongly advise us to not do it. they make us believe that we are going to kill our spirit by looking into what people say about them. good luck
I'm glad you said the part about us all being victims. Realizing that made my resentment and anger towards other members immediately dissipate. It helps with not trying to get revenge or feeling anger towards anyone, etc.... Just have to make sure it doesn't allow you to get sucked back in too!
When someone completes their course, one has to fill out their registration papers and sign a pledge before one is accepted as a registered member. Graduation happens before or after this depending on the graduation schedule.
I had never heard of maintainers before you mentioned them so, thank you for that. Where do they get the idea of the “new John?” I know it’s from Revelations but was there a prophecy about this even before the book of Revelations? I was able to find out who was behind all the free Bible sessions and left before getting to this part.
This is how I used to teach it in SCJ: Prophecies are sealed because they are revelations from God in visions that point to a future physical fulfillment that has not yet appeared (Hos 12:10, Am 3:7). God seals the meaning of the prophecies by recording it in figurative language (parables). Since the prophecy is sealed by God until an appointed time, no one can know the meaning of what is recorded. We only have the teachings of men until God’s prophecies are revealed (Is 29:11 - 13, Dn 12:4, 12:8 - 9, Hab 2:2 - 3, Rv 5:1 - 3, 1 Cor 13:9 - 12). There is a time for the contents of the prophecies to be hidden, but there is also a time for them to be revealed (Mt 11:27, Jn 16:25). When the appointed time of fulfillment comes, God opens the words of revelation, fulfills them and explains them to us. Many people think that the prophecies in the Old Testament are referring to events that the prophets in the Old Testament recorded and fulfilled themselves at that time (Mt 16:13 - 14, Acts 8:29 - 35). The prophets merely recorded what they saw and heard in visions. They did not see and hear the reality and could not testify to the reality of the prophecies. Jesus was the reality of the Old Testament prophecies (Lk 24:27, 24:44, Jn 1:14, 5:39, 19:30, 1 Cor 15:3 - 4). He came in the position of the Old Testament prophets and saw and heard the reality of what was seen and heard in vision (Ps 78:2 -> Mt 13:34 - 35, Is 61:1 -> Lk 4:16 - 21, Jer 1:9 - 10 -> Jn 5:22, Ez 2:8 - 3:4 -> Jn 17:8). This is why he could testify to the prophecies given in vision as well as the precise physical fulfillment. The true identity of the messiah and the work that he would do was a mystery until Jesus revealed it to the people (Rom 16:25 - 27, 1 Cor 2:6 - 14, Col 1:25 - 27, 2:2, Eph 3:4 - 9). The parables that Jesus spoke regarding the secrets of the kingdom of heaven will not remain sealed forever but will be made know plainly when the physical fulfillment of the prophecies appears at the appointed time. The time of plain teaching is at the time of Jesus’ 2nd coming when the book of Revelation is fulfilled (Jn 16:25, 1 Cor 13:9 - 12). There is a certain route of passage in which the revealed word of the New Testament prophecies is conveyed (Rv 1:1). Just as Jesus made his appearance in the church (temple) of John the Baptist, the messenger of the New Covenant appears in the church (temple) of the seven messengers (Rv 12:5). God gives the sealed book sealed with seven seals to Jesus to open it, fulfill it and show its fulfillment to his servants (Rv 5:1 - 7, 6:1, 8:1). This is why it is called the revelation of Jesus Christ (Rv 1:1). Jesus opens the seven seals and gives it to his angel that he sends in his name (Rv 10:1 - 2). The angel gives the sealed book to the servant of Jesus called John. The apostle John saw and heard the events of Revelation in vision 2000 years ago on the island of Patmos and recorded it in parables (Rv 1:9, 9:17). However, at the appointed time of fulfillment there is a person like John who sees and hears the reality of the events of the entire book of Revelation and is commanded to testify to what he has seen and heard. This person (New John) receives the opened book from the angel and is commanded to testify the fulfillment to all nations (Rv 10:8 - 11). The only way that one can keep the book of Revelation without adding or subtracting to it is by receiving the testimony of the physical fulfillment of the prophecies from New John (Rv 1:3, 22:7, 22:18 - 19). He is the only true witness that can perfectly testify to what he has seen and heard (Rv 22:8, 16). Only through this messenger of the New Covenant can be keep the New Covenant perfectly. He is the tree of life (Mt 13:31 - 32, Rv 2:7, 22:1 - 2), the faithful and wise servant who gives the food at the proper time (Mt 24:45 - 47, Rv 2:17), the woman that gives God’s yeast (Mt 13:33), the male child who fights and overcomes and receives the iron scepter (Rv 2:26 - 27, 12:5), one of the two witnesses that gives God’s fire (Rv 11:3 - 5), the censer in the most holy place (Rv 8:5) and the true light. Someone made a Reddit post about this a while ago www.reddit.com/r/Shincheonji/comments/s3l5b5/man_hee_lees_interpretation_of_revelation_10_is/
@@IntellectualSmurf For me, deciding to leave and actually leaving the college was the easy part. The aftermath though, not so much... I had my suspicions of the college from the very beginning. When God finally led me to the truth, I knew what I had to do. It was a bit easier to inform my facilitators I was leaving because afterwards, I blocked them. The friend who had recruited me though was another story. But that battle was also won, using the Word of God and with the help of people like Laurie, that God brought into my life. The college never abused my personal info in any way (at least not that I know of). And neither did my facilitators nor instructors ever try to reach out to me after.
How do we refute their teaching(doctrine) though? How is he capable of knowing so much and go so far to think about every little detail in Revelation and makes it work with rest of the bible. Is that even possible with the human brain? or is he truly was shown something but is betraying now. I saw your video on the discrepancies with Rev 7 which raises doubt for sure about the chairman but still leaves you asking how did he make the puzzle pieces fit with their doctrine. please comment on that
Also what do they gain from it? what do they gain by getting lot of people following them? what is their goal? we can say the members are convinced God will dwell with them but what about Lee Man Hee. what does he gain? just popularity and reverence?
I don't really see a need to refute their teaching since I am not aware of any actual evidence that demonstrates a causal relationship between supernatural entities and the events that they claim are the fulfillment of Revelation. I think it's a waste of time to try to refute unfalsifiable propositions. Man Hee Lee belonged to other organizations like the Olive Tree Movement and the Tabernacle Temple before SCJ. They also had very parabolic teachings similar to SCJ. SCJ is very good at making linguistic connections of the ambiguous language in the bible. However, linguistic connections of a book is not evidence of supernatural causation. This website gives some perspectives on their doctrine: www.examiningthescj.com/category/doctrine/ truthaboutshincheonji.com/2021/12/10/man-hee-lee-and-the-cults-that-surround-him/
@@marinagirgis2198 Yeah members hope for eternal life. Man Hee Lee might be sincerely convinced that what he teaches is the truth. He once expressed that as a child he had a desire to get rid of all the bad people in the world and to make Korea the greatest country in the world. Perhaps that might be part of it as well. However, the sincerity of a person is not evidence for the truthfulness of their claims.
@@SCJSkeptic So what is your take on the evidence they show regarding fulfillment of betrayal of tabernacle and the events of destruction of the tabernacle temple and changing its name to Issac church.
@@marinagirgis2198 All that they have is evidence for a church (Tabernacle Temple) that had a change in title and leadership. They then connect that event to an interpretation of the book of Revelation. That's simply a linguistic connection and not a demonstration of supernatural causation. Note that I am not religious so I don't presuppose supernatural existence and the validity of the bible like many Christians do. There is literally zero evidence for supernatural existence and causation in SCJ. Not little, but zero.
Hello there 😀 It helps to understand the psychology of cults to have realistic expectations regarding your interaction with her. www.psychologytoday.com/za/blog/freedom-mind/202106/understanding-cults-the-basics This might give you some tips on how to treat her: www.psychologytoday.com/za/blog/freedom-mind/202104/the-definitive-guide-helping-people-trapped-in-cult Be kind and compassionate and find a way to empower her to start thinking for herself. Give her the power and freedom to come to her own conclusions. I wish you all the best ❤
I would like you to know that there are people on Reddit saying your channel is a covert group for Shincheonji. Trying to identify people who are about to leave the church.
I have no words... thank you for this very informative video - though I am hurt, you brought a very good point: to still respect and not hate them because they truly believe what they are doing
@23:26 this So true. My review teacher once shouted at me (and stopped herself midway) when I asked her about a Bible verse we hadn’t gone over in class - but was talking about the same topic we had gone over, just because it didn’t quite align with how they had taught us
Thank you for this resource. I found out last night that my wife has been recruited into SCJ (and what SCJ is). It was so obvious to me from the outset that it is a cult. I'm frightened for my wife and how she might bring my kids up with these ideas. I'm desperate to learn anything I can. Already reading Combatting Mind Control and have also purchased Freedom of Mind. I'll do anything to help her.
just left SCJ, and my husband had the same worries as you about me and our children. ultimately I decided to research SCJ, first because their doctrine is a whole new bible kind of difficult to believe, second, my husband wouldn't leave me alone about the cult talk, and I thought that if I was going to be a member of that place, I must be sure that this is the right place for me and my family, so I start researching and came to the conclusion that they are a cult. mainly because of changes in the doctrine of the fulfilled reality that they teach now, I found out that, what they teach now is different from their past teachings. it may be difficult for you to understand what I am trying to say since you've never studied with them before. but do a little research on that and share it with her. don't expect her to do the research, they strongly advise us to not do it. they make us believe that we are going to kill our spirit by looking into what people say about them. good luck
I'm glad you said the part about us all being victims. Realizing that made my resentment and anger towards other members immediately dissipate. It helps with not trying to get revenge or feeling anger towards anyone, etc.... Just have to make sure it doesn't allow you to get sucked back in too!
Hello, thanks for the video. Very informative. I was just wondering what happens once they graduate.
When someone completes their course, one has to fill out their registration papers and sign a pledge before one is accepted as a registered member. Graduation happens before or after this depending on the graduation schedule.
I had never heard of maintainers before you mentioned them so, thank you for that.
Where do they get the idea of the “new John?” I know it’s from Revelations but was there a prophecy about this even before the book of Revelations?
I was able to find out who was behind all the free Bible sessions and left before getting to this part.
This is how I used to teach it in SCJ:
Prophecies are sealed because they are revelations from God in visions that point to a future physical fulfillment that has not yet appeared (Hos 12:10, Am 3:7). God seals the meaning of the prophecies by recording it in figurative language (parables). Since the prophecy is sealed by God until an appointed time, no one can know the meaning of what is recorded. We only have the teachings of men until God’s prophecies are revealed (Is 29:11 - 13, Dn 12:4, 12:8 - 9, Hab 2:2 - 3, Rv 5:1 - 3, 1 Cor 13:9 - 12). There is a time for the contents of the prophecies to be hidden, but there is also a time for them to be revealed (Mt 11:27, Jn 16:25). When the appointed time of fulfillment comes, God opens the words of revelation, fulfills them and explains them to us. Many people think that the prophecies in the Old Testament are referring to events that the prophets in the Old Testament recorded and fulfilled themselves at that time (Mt 16:13 - 14, Acts 8:29 - 35). The prophets merely recorded what they saw and heard in visions. They did not see and hear the reality and could not testify to the reality of the prophecies. Jesus was the reality of the Old Testament prophecies (Lk 24:27, 24:44, Jn 1:14, 5:39, 19:30, 1 Cor 15:3 - 4). He came in the position of the Old Testament prophets and saw and heard the reality of what was seen and heard in vision (Ps 78:2 -> Mt 13:34 - 35, Is 61:1 -> Lk 4:16 - 21, Jer 1:9 - 10 -> Jn 5:22, Ez 2:8 - 3:4 -> Jn 17:8). This is why he could testify to the prophecies given in vision as well as the precise physical fulfillment. The true identity of the messiah and the work that he would do was a mystery until Jesus revealed it to the people (Rom 16:25 - 27, 1 Cor 2:6 - 14, Col 1:25 - 27, 2:2, Eph 3:4 - 9).
The parables that Jesus spoke regarding the secrets of the kingdom of heaven will not remain sealed forever but will be made know plainly when the physical fulfillment of the prophecies appears at the appointed time. The time of plain teaching is at the time of Jesus’ 2nd coming when the book of Revelation is fulfilled (Jn 16:25, 1 Cor 13:9 - 12). There is a certain route of passage in which the revealed word of the New Testament prophecies is conveyed (Rv 1:1). Just as Jesus made his appearance in the church (temple) of John the Baptist, the messenger of the New Covenant appears in the church (temple) of the seven messengers (Rv 12:5).
God gives the sealed book sealed with seven seals to Jesus to open it, fulfill it and show its fulfillment to his servants (Rv 5:1 - 7, 6:1, 8:1). This is why it is called the revelation of Jesus Christ (Rv 1:1). Jesus opens the seven seals and gives it to his angel that he sends in his name (Rv 10:1 - 2). The angel gives the sealed book to the servant of Jesus called John. The apostle John saw and heard the events of Revelation in vision 2000 years ago on the island of Patmos and recorded it in parables (Rv 1:9, 9:17). However, at the appointed time of fulfillment there is a person like John who sees and hears the reality of the events of the entire book of Revelation and is commanded to testify to what he has seen and heard. This person (New John) receives the opened book from the angel and is commanded to testify the fulfillment to all nations (Rv 10:8 - 11). The only way that one can keep the book of Revelation without adding or subtracting to it is by receiving the testimony of the physical fulfillment of the prophecies from New John (Rv 1:3, 22:7, 22:18 - 19). He is the only true witness that can perfectly testify to what he has seen and heard (Rv 22:8, 16). Only through this messenger of the New Covenant can be keep the New Covenant perfectly.
He is the tree of life (Mt 13:31 - 32, Rv 2:7, 22:1 - 2), the faithful and wise servant who gives the food at the proper time (Mt 24:45 - 47, Rv 2:17), the woman that gives God’s yeast (Mt 13:33), the male child who fights and overcomes and receives the iron scepter (Rv 2:26 - 27, 12:5), one of the two witnesses that gives God’s fire (Rv 11:3 - 5), the censer in the most holy place (Rv 8:5) and the true light.
Someone made a Reddit post about this a while ago
www.reddit.com/r/Shincheonji/comments/s3l5b5/man_hee_lees_interpretation_of_revelation_10_is/
@@SCJSkeptic whoa 🤧 this is a mouthful but it also leaves me with some more lingering questions...
How did you facilitate your leaving? They have your personal info and stuff right? Was there ever any indication of personal harm?
@@IntellectualSmurf For me, deciding to leave and actually leaving the college was the easy part. The aftermath though, not so much...
I had my suspicions of the college from the very beginning. When God finally led me to the truth, I knew what I had to do. It was a bit easier to inform my facilitators I was leaving because afterwards, I blocked them.
The friend who had recruited me though was another story. But that battle was also won, using the Word of God and with the help of people like Laurie, that God brought into my life.
The college never abused my personal info in any way (at least not that I know of). And neither did my facilitators nor instructors ever try to reach out to me after.
How do we refute their teaching(doctrine) though? How is he capable of knowing so much and go so far to think about every little detail in Revelation and makes it work with rest of the bible. Is that even possible with the human brain? or is he truly was shown something but is betraying now. I saw your video on the discrepancies with Rev 7 which raises doubt for sure about the chairman but still leaves you asking how did he make the puzzle pieces fit with their doctrine. please comment on that
Also what do they gain from it? what do they gain by getting lot of people following them? what is their goal? we can say the members are convinced God will dwell with them but what about Lee Man Hee. what does he gain? just popularity and reverence?
I don't really see a need to refute their teaching since I am not aware of any actual evidence that demonstrates a causal relationship between supernatural entities and the events that they claim are the fulfillment of Revelation. I think it's a waste of time to try to refute unfalsifiable propositions.
Man Hee Lee belonged to other organizations like the Olive Tree Movement and the Tabernacle Temple before SCJ. They also had very parabolic teachings similar to SCJ. SCJ is very good at making linguistic connections of the ambiguous language in the bible. However, linguistic connections of a book is not evidence of supernatural causation.
This website gives some perspectives on their doctrine:
www.examiningthescj.com/category/doctrine/
truthaboutshincheonji.com/2021/12/10/man-hee-lee-and-the-cults-that-surround-him/
@@marinagirgis2198 Yeah members hope for eternal life.
Man Hee Lee might be sincerely convinced that what he teaches is the truth. He once expressed that as a child he had a desire to get rid of all the bad people in the world and to make Korea the greatest country in the world. Perhaps that might be part of it as well.
However, the sincerity of a person is not evidence for the truthfulness of their claims.
@@SCJSkeptic So what is your take on the evidence they show regarding fulfillment of betrayal of tabernacle and the events of destruction of the tabernacle temple and changing its name to Issac church.
@@marinagirgis2198 All that they have is evidence for a church (Tabernacle Temple) that had a change in title and leadership. They then connect that event to an interpretation of the book of Revelation. That's simply a linguistic connection and not a demonstration of supernatural causation.
Note that I am not religious so I don't presuppose supernatural existence and the validity of the bible like many Christians do.
There is literally zero evidence for supernatural existence and causation in SCJ. Not little, but zero.
How can I help my daughter leave SCJ?
Hello there 😀
It helps to understand the psychology of cults to have realistic expectations regarding your interaction with her.
www.psychologytoday.com/za/blog/freedom-mind/202106/understanding-cults-the-basics
This might give you some tips on how to treat her:
www.psychologytoday.com/za/blog/freedom-mind/202104/the-definitive-guide-helping-people-trapped-in-cult
Be kind and compassionate and find a way to empower her to start thinking for herself. Give her the power and freedom to come to her own conclusions.
I wish you all the best ❤
I would like you to know that there are people on Reddit saying your channel is a covert group for Shincheonji. Trying to identify people who are about to leave the church.
Haha 🤣 That's hilarious.
Perhaps they are confusing my channel with this website:
www.exshincheonji.com/
This is a website created by SCJ.
I went to that site looking for resources to help my wife. Pretty obvious right away everything was written by someon wtill in the cult.@@SCJSkeptic