A well-explained vid. I hope this vid sheds some light on other people. Timestamps: 0:00 Introduction (Overview of why Mr. Oh doesn’t say/acknowledge that he is the destroyer in the Book of Revelation?) 3:56 Shincheonji’s Testimony regarding Mr. Pyeong-ho Oh (SCJ Perspective) 6:37 February 1975 (Appearance of Mr. Oh) 9:18 March 14, 1980 11:15 September 14, 1980 (Mr. Oh changed the name of TT to Isaac Church) 15:38 Establishment of Education Centre 19:01 September 20, 1981 (Event of Mark of the Beast) 20:27 Pastor Ordainment Ceremony 23:14 Mr. Oh’s Testimony video
@@i-love-privacy If that is so then he would not be the one to give the food (Job 34:2-3) to the whole world ( all churches) (rev 22:16) as the Faithful and wise servant prophesied about in Mathew 24:45-47 as one of the signs of the second coming of God. And comes as a messenger of Jesus to serve this food in the house hold of his master Jesus. The bible says this one who overcomes eats on the tree of life which is in the paradise of God. 😂 This tree of life bears twelve crops every month Scientists what do you speak about that tree. 🌲 Have you ever came across it in your scientists discoveries So if he ate on that free wait for LMH to die and age, anyway time is up you might
@@twinamatsikojoab3436 Yes I do and I pray for all SCJ members to find the truth and salvation at Christ and not at LMH. Even I pray for him to repent.
Hi Laurie, Thankyou so so much for the work you do. It’s making a difference for many to make an informed decision Would you consider making the slides of the physical fulfilment available for review? I’m trying to understand the physical fulfilment better to understand why my sister so deeply believe it’s unparalleled. No worries if you prefer not to!
What if God and Jesus that you do not believe in makes you to age until you see all these things fulfill and do not die like Mr.Oh and Mr Lee Man Hee, for example like 200yrs old.😂 Will you also call it metaphorical language and not believe God and Jesus? I pray that God makes it happen and then you tell me how to prove it with natural science , for a person like you to be 200 yrs old with your youthful energy 😂
@@twinamatsikojoab3436 "What if" arguments are useless in demonstrating the truthfulness of claims. You are conflating linguistic patterns in metaphorical text that is not empirical with a proposition about aging that is empirical. This is a category error. If hypothetically Man Hee Lee aged to 200 years old, if you concluded that this occurrence has a supernatural cause because that's the only thing that makes sense to you, then you would commit an appeal to personal incredulity fallacy. I have made an entire video about my epistemological framework of the supernatural. It's titled "prophecy argument". You misunderstand the fundamentals of science. Science is based on methodological naturalism. It cannot be used to verify or falsify supernatural existence and causation.
If a Headteacher is called a Head because he is the leader of all the other teachers and Mr. Oh headed the rest of the 7 heads having an organisation of the tail(false prophets) refer to " Isaiah 9:15 the elders and prominent men are the head, the prophets who teach lies are the tail." Then if there is a claim that Mr. Oh is a beast from the sea that destroyed the earth then it can make sense because in his words he said that he came to destroy the Earth (Tabernacle Temple) And from the sea(world of believers invited a person with with mixed up waters (doctrines) as the bible refers to water as the word.) see. Duet 32:1-3. Then the video might be true about the revelation fulfilled realities of Rev 2-3
I think the connection between Isaiah 9:15, Deuteronomy 32 and the book of Revelation is a bit far fetched. Do you have a justification for these connections? Note that Mr. Oh never said he came to destroy the tabernacle temple in the way SCJ teaches it. He merely tried to reform it as you would expect of a person in his position.
If the writers of the old testament books and new testament never meet before in a coffee shop to plan on how to write the bible but have the same logical and ethical expressions in common then I believe there is a connection though the interpretation of the parable writing that God used to feed in the minds of prophets who were inspired by the holy spirit and wrote the bible irrespective of knowing each other and more so coming in different eras of which some were illeterate and never studied but wrote visions from God as the bible says. Ps 45:1, Amos 3:7, Hosea 12:10 2ptr 1:21. By the way about the connection above, Yesterday I heard my neighbor call his child with this phrases " You dog come up here" I don't think the child was a dog but was behaving like a dog perhaps. And so is the way God wrote the bible using parables. Hosea 12 [NIV] [ 10] I spoke to the prophets, gave them many visions and told parables through them.”
You seem to struggle to comprehend what I am asking. I am asking you to justify the connection between Isaiah 9:15 and the concept of head and tail in Revelation 13. You merely resorted to explaining that the bible is written in parables. I already know that. I taught SCJ's doctrine for many years. Perhaps I can ask you another question. What method do you follow to determine whether a verse is literal or figurative?
@@SCJSkeptic I would wish to explain more about the above question but since you don't believe in the bible then it will be a waste If you believe in God's word as Bible then I will be available
@@twinamatsikojoab3436 Note that one does not need to accept the contents of a book as true in order to have a discussion about its meaning. This is why people often discuss their interpretation of Shakespeare's writings.
Very interesting video. Did I hear Mr. Oh saying Catholics regard all Christians as cult? Wow! So all Christians are cult? Who then is a cult? From his testimony, sounds like he was really a destroyer. He did not simply say it. He changed everything and turned everything upside down. Why then wouldn't he be called the Destroyer? And Mr. Skeptic (the host), you have admitted that you are not religious in your own words. So I am wondering why you are meddling in affairs that pertain to Religion? Sounds like you do not have the credibility in this matter? May be spend time becoming religious first and then become a skeptic if your heart is not able to understand maters of Religion. Can someone tell me where to contact SCJ? Sounds like they have some good teachings if they are teaching from the Bible.
Note that in Korea it was quite common for Catholics to view Protestants as a cult and also for Protestants to view Catholics as a cult. He later became a protestant so he would obviously not view it as a cult after changing his mind. "Who then is a cult?" I think Shincheonji is a good example of a cult. I made a video about it (ruclips.net/video/32JuBQTMSXo/видео.html). The point that I made was that Mr. Oh doesn't admit to being the destroyer in the book of Revelation. He simply tried to reform the tabernacle temple since he considered it to be a cult. This is a normal occurrence within the religious world. You can label him as a destroyer if you want. I don't really care much for that religious mumbo jumbo. I enjoy criticizing religious ideas. I think it's necessary since I find all supernatural claims to be fundamentally unjustified. Instead of stating that I don't have credibility in this matter, perhaps you can present counter arguments against anything that I said. Skepticism is not dependent on religiosity. If you claim that I don't understand the matters of religion then point out specifically what I misunderstood. Your comment hardly has any explanatory power. There is not one single supernatural claim made by Shincheonji that can be demonstrated with evidence. I don't see why anyone should take their teachings seriously.
@@SCJSkeptic Oh I see. Sorry, but just to be clear, you are looking for supernatural evidence from any religion so you can believe in their teachings? And so you can become religious I guess? Well then you might as well seek supernatural evidence anywhere amongst black magic, voodoo, etc. It comes back to the point I made..., you seem to have little credibility to discuss matters of religion if you mindset is this basic. So this is the thing. I am a chemical scientist. It would not be wise for me to take lectures from a botanist on chemical reactions that occur in the lab. Would it? Similarly, I am a religious person. It wouldn't be wise for me to take lectures from someone with only basic knowledge in matters of religion. Would it? And this is true concerning who is a cult. I do not intend to argue with you but obviously, you don't have any credibility to talk about cults when you are not religious. The Pharisees (and I hope you know who they are given you are not religious) referred to followers of Jesus as a cult. Did you know this? Back then, 2000 years ago, Christianity was a cult. Today, it is not so. Is it? So who is a cult? I will not watch your video given the basic knowledge you have shown to have now. Keep looking for supernatural evidence you are looking for before you take religious matters seriously, Sir. But for now let me know where I can find these SCJ people if you can.
@@JimJeffers-jy8ij I am not actively looking for evidence of the supernatural in the same way I would assume you are not actively looking for evidence of fairies. We should not merely seek for the supernatural since this can make us try to match reality with our expectations, rather we should try to seek for truth and the best possible understanding of reality regardless of whether anything supernatural exists or not. My perspective on cults is not something I just made up. It is based on social science. Understanding cult psychology doesn't require religiosity, rather it requires having an understanding of social science. I have a fair understanding of the bible since I was religious for most of my life. Furthermore, I was a head instructor in SCJ and taught their doctrine for many years. You keep asserting that I have only basic knowledge of religion. Perhaps you can present counter arguments towards some of the things I say instead of merely resorting to character attacks. Imagine if everyone just asserted that others who don't agree with them have no credibility. This would not result in rational discourse. A person doesn't need to be religious in order to have a good understanding of the bible or religion in general. Many bible scholars do not believe in god. I have made a video regarding why I am not convinced of supernatural existence and causation (ruclips.net/video/ewBWBzArn7w/видео.htmlsi=nDJdsHzWQjpWh9T-). I am yet to see a reasonable response to my position.
Why the presenter started by defending destruction?? My question why he entered by a fake name??? Why didn't he focus to develop his faith instead of focusing destructing others' belief??? From my perspective Mr. Oh confirmed he was a destructor. To find who is he in the bible go and read the bible
How did I defend destruction? Who entered with a fake name? Mr. Oh tried to reform the tabernacle temple. My point was that Mr. Oh acknowledged that his motive was to reform the tabernacle temple. He obviously doesn't acknowledge that he is the destroyer in the book of Revelation. Listen carefully to what I say in the video. This isn't rocket science.
Song of Songs 7:4 Your neck is like an ivory tower. Your eyes are the pools of Heshbon by the gate of Bath Rabbim. Your nose is like the tower of Lebanon looking toward Damascus.
@@MosesTugume-h1d It's spelled "gansahamnida", but don't ask me how or where I know that. I think you know the answer. Good luck in 41. And it's spelled "shin cheon gi", because it does not mean New Heaven (new) Earth but Year of New Heaven.
This church is trying to mislead people here in Namibia. They tried to recruit me last year but i had been equipped with scripture and challenged them on their false claims.
@@Pass12380 Because of human rights in the modern world, it's hard to stop them. Furthermore, my goal is not to stop them. They have the right to believe what they believe.
@@SCJSkepticI really love the way how God uses @SCJSkeptic not to fight any one but to cool the environment for the two nations of Mathew 24:7 to fight their battle well until the winner will be revealed. Time will tell anyway. Me if I see the winning side with proof I will surely join that side. About Mathew 24:7 about the signs of second coming of Jesus I was curious why it is written in Hebrew original context that it is nation against nation not nation(s) against nation(s) It give me a reason to believe in God and the winner of the war against Satan. I have now started to even believe in the supernatural theories to be not to be only logical expressions but facts that God is in existence 😅
@@twinamatsikojoab3436 The "time will tell" response is a cop out often used by SCJ members. I don't think any spiritual battles has ever happened. There is simply no evidence of any supernatural existence or causation. Can you name one ontological fact (pertaining to existence) about the supernatural? I am not familiar with any such facts existing or perhaps you have an unorthodox definition of what a fact is.
What's your point? People live long lives these days dude. It's not a mystery. However, people get older and die. This is the natural flow of life. You have a burden of proof that you need to meet if you claim that there is anything supernatural in SCJ.
A well-explained vid. I hope this vid sheds some light on other people.
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction (Overview of why Mr. Oh doesn’t say/acknowledge that he is the destroyer in the Book of Revelation?)
3:56 Shincheonji’s Testimony regarding Mr. Pyeong-ho Oh (SCJ Perspective)
6:37 February 1975 (Appearance of Mr. Oh)
9:18 March 14, 1980
11:15 September 14, 1980 (Mr. Oh changed the name of TT to Isaac Church)
15:38 Establishment of Education Centre
19:01 September 20, 1981 (Event of Mark of the Beast)
20:27 Pastor Ordainment Ceremony
23:14 Mr. Oh’s Testimony video
Looks I found a video to watch while eating
Sounds like alot of mental gymnastics by scj to fit their version of events into the “fulfillment” of Revelation
😂😂😂😂
I am looking forward when LMH dies, how they will plot twist this one
@@i-love-privacy If that is so then he would not be the one to give the food (Job 34:2-3) to the whole world ( all churches) (rev 22:16) as the Faithful and wise servant prophesied about in Mathew 24:45-47 as one of the signs of the second coming of God. And comes as a messenger of Jesus to serve this food in the house hold of his master Jesus.
The bible says this one who overcomes eats on the tree of life which is in the paradise of God. 😂 This tree of life bears twelve crops every month
Scientists what do you speak about that tree. 🌲
Have you ever came across it in your scientists discoveries
So if he ate on that free wait for LMH to die and age, anyway time is up you might
@@i-love-privacy do you believe in God and Jesus?
@@twinamatsikojoab3436 Yes I do and I pray for all SCJ members to find the truth and salvation at Christ and not at LMH. Even I pray for him to repent.
The exactly what does not makes sense . Why is Jesus reformation is not enough. Why must there be a second reformation ?
Hi Laurie, Thankyou so so much for the work you do. It’s making a difference for many to make an informed decision
Would you consider making the slides of the physical fulfilment available for review? I’m trying to understand the physical fulfilment better to understand why my sister so deeply believe it’s unparalleled. No worries if you prefer not to!
Yeah sure. Email me at shincheonjiskeptic@gmail.com
Indeed these actually reality fulfilment videos can make one connect well with the prophecies in the bible well.
We need more thank you Soo much
@@twinamatsikojoab3436 That's the thing with metaphorical language. You can create all sorts of connections 🤣.
What if God and Jesus that you do not believe in makes you to age until you see all these things fulfill and do not die like Mr.Oh and Mr Lee Man Hee, for example like 200yrs old.😂
Will you also call it metaphorical language and not believe God and Jesus?
I pray that God makes it happen and then you tell me how to prove it with natural science , for a person like you to be 200 yrs old with your youthful energy 😂
@@twinamatsikojoab3436 "What if" arguments are useless in demonstrating the truthfulness of claims. You are conflating linguistic patterns in metaphorical text that is not empirical with a proposition about aging that is empirical. This is a category error.
If hypothetically Man Hee Lee aged to 200 years old, if you concluded that this occurrence has a supernatural cause because that's the only thing that makes sense to you, then you would commit an appeal to personal incredulity fallacy. I have made an entire video about my epistemological framework of the supernatural. It's titled "prophecy argument".
You misunderstand the fundamentals of science. Science is based on methodological naturalism. It cannot be used to verify or falsify supernatural existence and causation.
If a Headteacher is called a Head because he is the leader of all the other teachers and Mr. Oh headed the rest of the 7 heads having an organisation of the tail(false prophets) refer to " Isaiah 9:15
the elders and prominent men are the head, the prophets who teach lies are the tail."
Then if there is a claim that Mr. Oh is a beast from the sea that destroyed the earth then it can make sense because in his words he said that he came to destroy the Earth (Tabernacle Temple)
And from the sea(world of believers invited a person with with mixed up waters (doctrines) as the bible refers to water as the word.) see. Duet 32:1-3.
Then the video might be true about the revelation fulfilled realities of Rev 2-3
I think the connection between Isaiah 9:15, Deuteronomy 32 and the book of Revelation is a bit far fetched. Do you have a justification for these connections?
Note that Mr. Oh never said he came to destroy the tabernacle temple in the way SCJ teaches it. He merely tried to reform it as you would expect of a person in his position.
If the writers of the old testament books and new testament never meet before in a coffee shop to plan on how to write the bible but have the same logical and ethical expressions in common then I believe there is a connection though the interpretation of the parable writing that God used to feed in the minds of prophets who were inspired by the holy spirit and wrote the bible irrespective of knowing each other and more so coming in different eras of which some were illeterate and never studied but wrote visions from God as the bible says.
Ps 45:1, Amos 3:7, Hosea 12:10
2ptr 1:21.
By the way about the connection above,
Yesterday I heard my neighbor call his child with this phrases " You dog come up here"
I don't think the child was a dog but was behaving like a dog perhaps.
And so is the way God wrote the bible using parables.
Hosea 12 [NIV]
[ 10] I spoke to the prophets,
gave them many visions
and told parables through them.”
You seem to struggle to comprehend what I am asking. I am asking you to justify the connection between Isaiah 9:15 and the concept of head and tail in Revelation 13. You merely resorted to explaining that the bible is written in parables. I already know that. I taught SCJ's doctrine for many years.
Perhaps I can ask you another question. What method do you follow to determine whether a verse is literal or figurative?
@@SCJSkeptic I would wish to explain more about the above question but since you don't believe in the bible then it will be a waste
If you believe in God's word as Bible then I will be available
@@twinamatsikojoab3436 Note that one does not need to accept the contents of a book as true in order to have a discussion about its meaning. This is why people often discuss their interpretation of Shakespeare's writings.
Very interesting video. Did I hear Mr. Oh saying Catholics regard all Christians as cult? Wow! So all Christians are cult? Who then is a cult? From his testimony, sounds like he was really a destroyer. He did not simply say it. He changed everything and turned everything upside down. Why then wouldn't he be called the Destroyer? And Mr. Skeptic (the host), you have admitted that you are not religious in your own words. So I am wondering why you are meddling in affairs that pertain to Religion? Sounds like you do not have the credibility in this matter? May be spend time becoming religious first and then become a skeptic if your heart is not able to understand maters of Religion. Can someone tell me where to contact SCJ? Sounds like they have some good teachings if they are teaching from the Bible.
Brilliant analysis
Note that in Korea it was quite common for Catholics to view Protestants as a cult and also for Protestants to view Catholics as a cult. He later became a protestant so he would obviously not view it as a cult after changing his mind.
"Who then is a cult?"
I think Shincheonji is a good example of a cult. I made a video about it (ruclips.net/video/32JuBQTMSXo/видео.html).
The point that I made was that Mr. Oh doesn't admit to being the destroyer in the book of Revelation. He simply tried to reform the tabernacle temple since he considered it to be a cult. This is a normal occurrence within the religious world. You can label him as a destroyer if you want. I don't really care much for that religious mumbo jumbo.
I enjoy criticizing religious ideas. I think it's necessary since I find all supernatural claims to be fundamentally unjustified. Instead of stating that I don't have credibility in this matter, perhaps you can present counter arguments against anything that I said. Skepticism is not dependent on religiosity. If you claim that I don't understand the matters of religion then point out specifically what I misunderstood. Your comment hardly has any explanatory power.
There is not one single supernatural claim made by Shincheonji that can be demonstrated with evidence. I don't see why anyone should take their teachings seriously.
@@SCJSkeptic Oh I see. Sorry, but just to be clear, you are looking for supernatural evidence from any religion so you can believe in their teachings? And so you can become religious I guess? Well then you might as well seek supernatural evidence anywhere amongst black magic, voodoo, etc. It comes back to the point I made..., you seem to have little credibility to discuss matters of religion if you mindset is this basic.
So this is the thing. I am a chemical scientist. It would not be wise for me to take lectures from a botanist on chemical reactions that occur in the lab. Would it? Similarly, I am a religious person. It wouldn't be wise for me to take lectures from someone with only basic knowledge in matters of religion. Would it? And this is true concerning who is a cult. I do not intend to argue with you but obviously, you don't have any credibility to talk about cults when you are not religious. The Pharisees (and I hope you know who they are given you are not religious) referred to followers of Jesus as a cult. Did you know this? Back then, 2000 years ago, Christianity was a cult. Today, it is not so. Is it? So who is a cult? I will not watch your video given the basic knowledge you have shown to have now.
Keep looking for supernatural evidence you are looking for before you take religious matters seriously, Sir. But for now let me know where I can find these SCJ people if you can.
@@JimJeffers-jy8ij I am not actively looking for evidence of the supernatural in the same way I would assume you are not actively looking for evidence of fairies. We should not merely seek for the supernatural since this can make us try to match reality with our expectations, rather we should try to seek for truth and the best possible understanding of reality regardless of whether anything supernatural exists or not.
My perspective on cults is not something I just made up. It is based on social science. Understanding cult psychology doesn't require religiosity, rather it requires having an understanding of social science. I have a fair understanding of the bible since I was religious for most of my life. Furthermore, I was a head instructor in SCJ and taught their doctrine for many years.
You keep asserting that I have only basic knowledge of religion. Perhaps you can present counter arguments towards some of the things I say instead of merely resorting to character attacks. Imagine if everyone just asserted that others who don't agree with them have no credibility. This would not result in rational discourse.
A person doesn't need to be religious in order to have a good understanding of the bible or religion in general. Many bible scholars do not believe in god.
I have made a video regarding why I am not convinced of supernatural existence and causation (ruclips.net/video/ewBWBzArn7w/видео.htmlsi=nDJdsHzWQjpWh9T-). I am yet to see a reasonable response to my position.
@@JimJeffers-jy8ijHi Lee Man Hee worshipper 🙂
According to his speech it is true he distroyed
That's a very compelling argument 🤣
Why the presenter started by defending destruction?? My question why he entered by a fake name??? Why didn't he focus to develop his faith instead of focusing destructing others' belief???
From my perspective Mr. Oh confirmed he was a destructor. To find who is he in the bible go and read the bible
How did I defend destruction? Who entered with a fake name? Mr. Oh tried to reform the tabernacle temple. My point was that Mr. Oh acknowledged that his motive was to reform the tabernacle temple. He obviously doesn't acknowledge that he is the destroyer in the book of Revelation. Listen carefully to what I say in the video. This isn't rocket science.
@@SCJSkeptic why was he so nervous to reform the institution which he didn't belong??? Why entered secretly??? Can't you reason???
@@MarcusAlvin-w1f Because he thought it was a cult. Note that I don't agree with his tactics.
Jude 1:10
Song of Songs 7:4 Your neck is like an ivory tower. Your eyes are the pools of Heshbon by the gate of Bath Rabbim. Your nose is like the tower of Lebanon looking toward Damascus.
lol slander 😂 where??!!
thanks l need shicheonji 41 😂
What do you mean by Shincheonji 41?
kamusahamidah i mean shicheonji 41 means a year
@@MosesTugume-h1d I spoke with Santa and you're getting a dictionary for Christmas.
@@MosesTugume-h1d It's spelled "gansahamnida", but don't ask me how or where I know that. I think you know the answer. Good luck in 41. And it's spelled "shin cheon gi", because it does not mean New Heaven (new) Earth but Year of New Heaven.
This church is trying to mislead people here in Namibia. They tried to recruit me last year but i had been equipped with scripture and challenged them on their false claims.
I was part of Namibia church when I was there
Try to stop them
@@Pass12380 Because of human rights in the modern world, it's hard to stop them. Furthermore, my goal is not to stop them. They have the right to believe what they believe.
@@SCJSkepticI really love the way how God uses @SCJSkeptic not to fight any one but to cool the environment for the two nations of Mathew 24:7 to fight their battle well until the winner will be revealed.
Time will tell anyway.
Me if I see the winning side with proof I will surely join that side.
About Mathew 24:7 about the signs of second coming of Jesus I was curious why it is written in Hebrew original context that it is nation against nation not nation(s) against nation(s)
It give me a reason to believe in God and the winner of the war against Satan.
I have now started to even believe in the supernatural theories to be not to be only logical expressions but facts that God is in existence 😅
@@twinamatsikojoab3436 The "time will tell" response is a cop out often used by SCJ members.
I don't think any spiritual battles has ever happened. There is simply no evidence of any supernatural existence or causation. Can you name one ontological fact (pertaining to existence) about the supernatural? I am not familiar with any such facts existing or perhaps you have an unorthodox definition of what a fact is.
😂 ohhh what are you doing Oh?
🤣🤣🤣
One day we shall know why Mr.Oh and Mr Lee Man Hee are still alive until today and even more years until the year of Judgement of Babylon of Rev 18
What's your point? People live long lives these days dude. It's not a mystery. However, people get older and die. This is the natural flow of life. You have a burden of proof that you need to meet if you claim that there is anything supernatural in SCJ.