Just Wow! I never thought of leaning forward a bit. I always thought that leaning all my upper body on the chair is the right sitting position. Big ups Oliver 👏
It turns out I was leaning back too much which put more pressure on my low back and made it tight after standing back up. Your sitting method is much more comfortable thus far.
I have a chronic fatigue problem and have to study! I usually end up abandoning my desk because of the chair and flopping on the sofa. I need a super chair for a short (5foot 3) sloucher. I saw your video about the depth of the seat, arm rests and synchronous tipping movement. Can you recommend a chair? I’m so confused! There are so many variables, and I think I want a solid back support? Argh!
I have a lumbar injury and it literally causes pain to recline and sit in any position except the neutral spine position you are showing. However, I cannot find ANY chairs that support this posture. There are some office chairs like you're showing that are decent but they are usually built for men and can't adjust to fit right for a woman. I really just need a chair I can sit in at home and relax. I am DESPERATE for a solution bc I'm exhausted and in pain and I just want to sit and relax. Do you have any suggestions on where I can find even one chair that supports a relaxed neutral spine position?
Have you experience with the HAG chairs (H05, H04, Creed....)? The in-balance mechanics helps that you do not lean too much back and also helps to stay somewhat in motion. I have used a H05 since its release about 23 years ago and am very happy with it. Never had back pain ever since -- which I had before I changed to the H05 (and sitting many hours a day).
Hi Olivier, thank you so much for these invaluable resources! I do have one question/concern: when sitting with a flat back, without shoulder blades touching the back, I'm getting pain in my shoulder blades after sitting for a short while. Is this just my upper back working excessively hard at first or am I doing something wrong? Thanks again!
Hello - i experienced the Same Thing. The solution is to get your upper Body more forward. Because only If the upper Body is forward then your internal arm Rest will hold your Arms and there is nothing to hold for the shoulder.
if your shoulder blades or your head should never touch the chair, why have the upper part of the chair at all? and what if the shape of the chair was different and supported your head and shoulder blades at the correct sitting position you show here (so the headrest and upper part of the chair would be tilted forward more)? would that make any sense? would it do you any good to have your whole upper body supported in this correct sitting position?
Olivier, is there any problem in having someyhing rest at the upper back, if you make sure that you sit slightly tilted forward and with lumbar support? Im thinking a pillow attached to the chair or if a chair is designed for this. Not that i have ever seen such a chair 😁 they are all designed for resting backwards (the top part)
Hello! Very good and helpful video! I have a question, I just upgraded to my first ergo chair, a Herman Miller Embody. I really like the chair but I’m struggling to find settings that dont cause me aches in my neck and mid to upper back. Could the chair just be wrong for me, or might it just take a while for my body to get used to sitting ergonomically? Thank you!
I think this video answered my question I posted elsewhere about high vs mid backrests. Perhaps the clue was in the name.. the upper backrest is much like the armrest then, it is used when resting and not when working. That leaves one question; in a chair with thoracic support is that support in contact with your back in a proper working posture? When is this a helpful feature to have(it seems to only be on niche or expensive chairs.)
Good point, Vergo. There's indeed a difference between pressure and contact. In your chair, you should have pressure behind your belt, and that pressure lowers when you move upwards. Until where you feel it depends on your chair: on mine, I feel the backrest until the middle ribs. But that does not mean that I press the middle ribs against the chair: it's just there. To assess whether you feel good on this vs. that chair, honestly I think you need to test: your posture and the backrest just need to deviate by a few degrees, and everything is radically different.
I use this one: ruclips.net/video/e2wwl6ZohLg/видео.html, which I find great. The issue with it is that it's not well distributed in the US, esp. for private people...
Thank you so much for the great tips, I didn't realize my pelvis wasn't supported correctly. I have a question though, I used to sit up straight with my whole back leaning against the chair. Now after I started correcting my posture, my upper back and shoulders start aching. This usually happens after 10 to 15 minutes. I use a lumbar pillow as the lumbar support on my office chair is not adjustable. If I put it towards my upper back if feels better for a little bit but that's not good because now my belt area is barely supported. Any idea why my upper back feels the need to be supported?
Great question, thank you so much! There are several things there: - make sure that your lumbar pillow is firm enough: it doesn't take much of a pelvic backwards tilt to be slouching... - have a look at this other video of mine on why leaning on the backrest isn't too great: ruclips.net/video/Fa4SFs85too/видео.html - the tension in your mid-back is linked to a) the fact that the new posture is... new! Hence, your brains don't like it too much and you tend to tense up more than necessary b) your mid back muscles (thoracic spine extensors) are surely a bit deconditioned (i.e. lazy). The more you use them, the better it will get... but you shouldn't exceed their current limit! Hence, do the full relaxation exercise to bring back fresh blood as soon as you feel muscle tiredness (ruclips.net/video/yxIkf36TRD4/видео.html), and do the mid back strengthening exercise 2-3 times a day (ruclips.net/video/UitiV6V5dNo/видео.html, from 2'20 to 5'48). Makes sense, dear :) ?
@@OlivierGirard Thank you so much for your fast reply. I'll definitely start doing these exercises and be aware of my posture. You're literally a beacon of hope for anyone that has an office job, Good luck on your RUclips journey:)
Hello, I recently bought an Ahrend 230 chair. When following your guide on how to sit properly I notice and experience some discomfort around my sitting bones. More on the right side than the left side. On the right side the discomfort is more around the hamstring insertion. Is this because I never sat properly before and will it go away with time or am I doing something wrong? The chair seems to have enough cushion so that I'm not sitting on a very hard surface.
If it isn't a problem of cushioning, it can be that you're not used to sit like this indeed. But it can also be that you put more weight under the right sitting bone than under the left, or that you sit for too long in a row. Or, that you have a slight weakness in this area, which you never discovered before because you were taking a sitting posture that was designed at avoiding the pressure there...
This is incredibly helpful, but I do have a question: When sitting like this in my ergonomic chair, the only place my back actually touches the chair is the lumbar support at belt level and a few inches above that. By lower middle back, there's no contact with the chair at all. Is this just chair specific? And what's the point of the other 60% of the chair if I never use it? Why pay hundreds or thousands for an ergonomic chair if the only part I need is the seat and the lumbar support?
Hey! Thanks for reaching out! The most relevant part is indeed the lumbar support when you work. How high the backrest contacts your back is chair-specific, but it’s true that even if it touches your shoulder blades, it should not press on them. Hence, a high backrest is only useful when you want to lean back (i.e. when you don’t work). Here is the full explanation: ruclips.net/video/SfGQXZH02T0/видео.html. I hope this helps!
@@OlivierGirard that is very helpful, thank you! One more question: I notice when you tilt your chair back, the whole thing (back rest and seat) both tilt. In my chair only the back rest moves. Do I need a chair where the seat moves with the back rest?
@@leekdiscrete9415 Well... the chair mechanism I have is called a synchronous mechanism. Most office chairs have this function, which is more comfortable (the lumbar support follows your movement). I would not change an existing chair just due to the lack of it (Mother Planet can't have it anymore!!), but I would definitely take the function on the next one!
Nice video Thank you so much for posting it! I have a question: When I sit on my sitting bones I tend to get testicular pain even though my ultrasound is clear. Can you explain why?
You're welcome, mate! I have looked for an explanation but it's not 100% clear to me what it could be (apart from underwear that wouldn't be well-fitted enough, but I guess you'd know by yourself). Usually, this type of pain is linked to pelvic floor muscles, which can be triggered either by a fall / accidents or by slouched postures. Do you recognize any of those as potential causes? One thing you could do is try to tilt your seat pan 2-3° forward, and see if it helps relieve the pain. But really 2-3°, not more!
I have noticed that my hip flexors (I think that is what they are called) get tight after sitting like this for a week. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong? I have a Giroflex 64 chair.
Hi Etienne... I'm not sure if you're really the one doing wrong ;) Honestly, I don't like Giroflex 64: either the backrest is supportive enough and the seat pan is tilted forward a lot, or you put the seat pan horizontal but then the backrest is so far away that you don't have any lumbar support anymore! In addition, many of their fabrics tend to wear off and become slippery, which makes you slide forward even more. It could very well be that the tension you feel is due to the fact that you're trying to resist one of these issues. My advice is: 1) see if / when you can get a new chair 2) in the meantime, try and put a piece of anti-slip mat under your buttocks and the backrest rather upright. With this, you should feel that you're supported in your belt, but without sliding too much forward. Giroflex is a typical chair in Switzerland... are we living in the same country :) ?
@@OlivierGirard Thank you for the suggestions. I am from the Netherlands :). I believe Giroflex is/was a popular brand here among offices. I recently bought the chair second hand online and was unfortunately not able to test the chair in person due to covid. It indeed feels as if I'm constantly sliding slightly out of the chair when sitting upright, so I will try to use a piece of anti-slip mat. I'm also unable to find a comfortable spot for the lumbar support, the transition between the lower part of the backrest and the upper part is quite pronounced. If the anti-slip doesn't help I will start looking for a new chair. It's a shame really... I guess it just confirms one should never buy a chair online without testing it first.
@@etienne2540 yep, that's the right conclusion! Although it won't resolve the problem, there's one more thing: make sure that the seat pan is pushed backwards (there's a button under the top left corner of the seat pan, close to the backrest). Enjoy your week-end!!
@@OlivierGirard Thank you again for the tip. I've been looking at some chairs to replace the giroflex. My eye has fallen on the RH Logic 400. I plan to sit in it to test if it's comfortable for me but I was wondering what your professional opinion about this chair is.
@@etienne2540 Overall, it's a good chair (under condition that it fits your morphology, which you can only assess by sitting on it 😅). I'm not too sure about the armrests though: the older versions had hard plastic armrests that were to far spread apart for most people. See if the have padded armrests... that would be way better for your elbows. If I am not wrong, there's one more thing I'm not a great fan of: if you look at the seat pan tilt axis, you will see that lies is under the front edge of the seat. As the center of gravity of your body is somewhere above the gas spring, there's always a momentum around the tilt axis: it's a chair that keeps moving if you have it unblocked. The manufacturer argues that it's the best way to create a chair that follows your posture whilst you're in movement, but I find that it creates instability. Hence, I would use this chair blocked with a horizontal seat pan. Not a kill-criteria when it comes to buying, but just make sure that you test the function and see what you feel... makes sense?
Hi Olivier, I bought a Hinomi ergonomic chair and feel a lot of pressure against my lower back where the lumbar support is (to the point where I feel relief when I get up as my back is no longer against the lumbar support). Only my lower back is contacting the chair when I sit/ it is impossible anyway to lean back uncomfortably with the strong lumbar support. Is that normal or am I just not used to sitting in an ergonomic chair?
Hi, thank you for the video. One question: I tried this today and found my abs to be working in what to me is way more than they should. Could this be due to excessive forward lean? I felt like if I didn’t make an active effort then I’d fall forward.
You're welcome! I'm a bit puzzled at first sight: the abs will work when you lean backwards, not forward. So I don't really understand where what you feel can come from. If you want to send me pictures and get personal feedback to clarify this, feel free to use the whatsapp hotline: oliviergirard.ch/en/boutique/whatsapp-guidance/
Just Wow!
I never thought of leaning forward a bit. I always thought that leaning all my upper body on the chair is the right sitting position. Big ups Oliver 👏
Thank you!!
It turns out I was leaning back too much which put more pressure on my low back and made it tight after standing back up. Your sitting method is much more comfortable thus far.
Thanks for pointing that out, Dr Olivier. I have the wrong perception that leaning entirely against the backrest is the correct sitting position!
Thank you for creating such informative video.
Can you suggest a table length and chair
very insightful and helpful... for many many desk job worker... thank you
Very helpful, thanks so much !
I have a chronic fatigue problem and have to study! I usually end up abandoning my desk because of the chair and flopping on the sofa. I need a super chair for a short (5foot 3) sloucher. I saw your video about the depth of the seat, arm rests and synchronous tipping movement. Can you recommend a chair? I’m so confused! There are so many variables, and I think I want a solid back support? Argh!
hello olivier,
Do you have a video/guide on how to adjust and properly place the lumbar support on an ergonomic chair?
Thanks!
Good morning to you! I have this indeed 😇: ruclips.net/video/eXMLHrOsZrk/видео.html. Hope it helps!!
Thank you! I am in search of a right office chair, this will help. Is there a video available about head rest thing-why and how to use it?
I have a lumbar injury and it literally causes pain to recline and sit in any position except the neutral spine position you are showing.
However, I cannot find ANY chairs that support this posture. There are some office chairs like you're showing that are decent but they are usually built for men and can't adjust to fit right for a woman. I really just need a chair I can sit in at home and relax.
I am DESPERATE for a solution bc I'm exhausted and in pain and I just want to sit and relax. Do you have any suggestions on where I can find even one chair that supports a relaxed neutral spine position?
Have you experience with the HAG chairs (H05, H04, Creed....)? The in-balance mechanics helps that you do not lean too much back and also helps to stay somewhat in motion. I have used a H05 since its release about 23 years ago and am very happy with it. Never had back pain ever since -- which I had before I changed to the H05 (and sitting many hours a day).
Superb!!!!
Thanks for your enthusiasm, mate!! It's so great to have you onboard :)
Hi Olivier, thank you so much for these invaluable resources!
I do have one question/concern: when sitting with a flat back, without shoulder blades touching the back, I'm getting pain in my shoulder blades after sitting for a short while. Is this just my upper back working excessively hard at first or am I doing something wrong? Thanks again!
Hello - i experienced the Same Thing. The solution is to get your upper Body more forward. Because only If the upper Body is forward then your internal arm Rest will hold your Arms and there is nothing to hold for the shoulder.
Do you have any videos which talk about use of a headrest?
I do… have a look at these two:
- ruclips.net/video/Fa4SFs85too/видео.html
- ruclips.net/video/SfGQXZH02T0/видео.html
Does this help?
if your shoulder blades or your head should never touch the chair, why have the upper part of the chair at all? and what if the shape of the chair was different and supported your head and shoulder blades at the correct sitting position you show here (so the headrest and upper part of the chair would be tilted forward more)? would that make any sense? would it do you any good to have your whole upper body supported in this correct sitting position?
Olivier, is there any problem in having someyhing rest at the upper back, if you make sure that you sit slightly tilted forward and with lumbar support? Im thinking a pillow attached to the chair or if a chair is designed for this. Not that i have ever seen such a chair 😁 they are all designed for resting backwards (the top part)
For some reason breathing feels weird for me when my torso is forward. Other than that this kinda alleviated my forearm issues
What about posture for running?
Excellent directions, thank you.
My pleasure, dear!
Hello! Very good and helpful video! I have a question, I just upgraded to my first ergo chair, a Herman Miller Embody. I really like the chair but I’m struggling to find settings that dont cause me aches in my neck and mid to upper back. Could the chair just be wrong for me, or might it just take a while for my body to get used to sitting ergonomically? Thank you!
Are your monitors the right height?
I think this video answered my question I posted elsewhere about high vs mid backrests. Perhaps the clue was in the name.. the upper backrest is much like the armrest then, it is used when resting and not when working. That leaves one question; in a chair with thoracic support is that support in contact with your back in a proper working posture? When is this a helpful feature to have(it seems to only be on niche or expensive chairs.)
Good point, Vergo. There's indeed a difference between pressure and contact. In your chair, you should have pressure behind your belt, and that pressure lowers when you move upwards. Until where you feel it depends on your chair: on mine, I feel the backrest until the middle ribs. But that does not mean that I press the middle ribs against the chair: it's just there. To assess whether you feel good on this vs. that chair, honestly I think you need to test: your posture and the backrest just need to deviate by a few degrees, and everything is radically different.
What type of chair are you using? Would you recommend it?
I use this one: ruclips.net/video/e2wwl6ZohLg/видео.html, which I find great. The issue with it is that it's not well distributed in the US, esp. for private people...
Thank you so much for the great tips, I didn't realize my pelvis wasn't supported correctly. I have a question though, I used to sit up straight with my whole back leaning against the chair. Now after I started correcting my posture, my upper back and shoulders start aching. This usually happens after 10 to 15 minutes. I use a lumbar pillow as the lumbar support on my office chair is not adjustable. If I put it towards my upper back if feels better for a little bit but that's not good because now my belt area is barely supported. Any idea why my upper back feels the need to be supported?
Great question, thank you so much! There are several things there:
- make sure that your lumbar pillow is firm enough: it doesn't take much of a pelvic backwards tilt to be slouching...
- have a look at this other video of mine on why leaning on the backrest isn't too great: ruclips.net/video/Fa4SFs85too/видео.html
- the tension in your mid-back is linked to a) the fact that the new posture is... new! Hence, your brains don't like it too much and you tend to tense up more than necessary b) your mid back muscles (thoracic spine extensors) are surely a bit deconditioned (i.e. lazy). The more you use them, the better it will get... but you shouldn't exceed their current limit! Hence, do the full relaxation exercise to bring back fresh blood as soon as you feel muscle tiredness (ruclips.net/video/yxIkf36TRD4/видео.html), and do the mid back strengthening exercise 2-3 times a day (ruclips.net/video/UitiV6V5dNo/видео.html, from 2'20 to 5'48).
Makes sense, dear :) ?
@@OlivierGirard Thank you so much for your fast reply. I'll definitely start doing these exercises and be aware of my posture. You're literally a beacon of hope for anyone that has an office job, Good luck on your RUclips journey:)
@@theneonsplash3509 waoh, thank you for your kind words!! It's very nice to feel helpful :)
Hello, I recently bought an Ahrend 230 chair. When following your guide on how to sit properly I notice and experience some discomfort around my sitting bones. More on the right side than the left side. On the right side the discomfort is more around the hamstring insertion. Is this because I never sat properly before and will it go away with time or am I doing something wrong? The chair seems to have enough cushion so that I'm not sitting on a very hard surface.
If it isn't a problem of cushioning, it can be that you're not used to sit like this indeed. But it can also be that you put more weight under the right sitting bone than under the left, or that you sit for too long in a row.
Or, that you have a slight weakness in this area, which you never discovered before because you were taking a sitting posture that was designed at avoiding the pressure there...
This is incredibly helpful, but I do have a question: When sitting like this in my ergonomic chair, the only place my back actually touches the chair is the lumbar support at belt level and a few inches above that. By lower middle back, there's no contact with the chair at all. Is this just chair specific? And what's the point of the other 60% of the chair if I never use it? Why pay hundreds or thousands for an ergonomic chair if the only part I need is the seat and the lumbar support?
Hey! Thanks for reaching out!
The most relevant part is indeed the lumbar support when you work. How high the backrest contacts your back is chair-specific, but it’s true that even if it touches your shoulder blades, it should not press on them. Hence, a high backrest is only useful when you want to lean back (i.e. when you don’t work). Here is the full explanation: ruclips.net/video/SfGQXZH02T0/видео.html. I hope this helps!
@@OlivierGirard that is very helpful, thank you! One more question: I notice when you tilt your chair back, the whole thing (back rest and seat) both tilt. In my chair only the back rest moves. Do I need a chair where the seat moves with the back rest?
@@leekdiscrete9415 Well... the chair mechanism I have is called a synchronous mechanism. Most office chairs have this function, which is more comfortable (the lumbar support follows your movement). I would not change an existing chair just due to the lack of it (Mother Planet can't have it anymore!!), but I would definitely take the function on the next one!
Nice video Thank you so much for posting it!
I have a question: When I sit on my sitting bones I tend to get testicular pain even though my ultrasound is clear. Can you explain why?
You're welcome, mate! I have looked for an explanation but it's not 100% clear to me what it could be (apart from underwear that wouldn't be well-fitted enough, but I guess you'd know by yourself). Usually, this type of pain is linked to pelvic floor muscles, which can be triggered either by a fall / accidents or by slouched postures. Do you recognize any of those as potential causes?
One thing you could do is try to tilt your seat pan 2-3° forward, and see if it helps relieve the pain. But really 2-3°, not more!
What chair is in this video?
this one: ruclips.net/video/e2wwl6ZohLg/видео.html :)
I have noticed that my hip flexors (I think that is what they are called) get tight after sitting like this for a week. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong? I have a Giroflex 64 chair.
Hi Etienne... I'm not sure if you're really the one doing wrong ;) Honestly, I don't like Giroflex 64: either the backrest is supportive enough and the seat pan is tilted forward a lot, or you put the seat pan horizontal but then the backrest is so far away that you don't have any lumbar support anymore! In addition, many of their fabrics tend to wear off and become slippery, which makes you slide forward even more. It could very well be that the tension you feel is due to the fact that you're trying to resist one of these issues. My advice is:
1) see if / when you can get a new chair
2) in the meantime, try and put a piece of anti-slip mat under your buttocks and the backrest rather upright. With this, you should feel that you're supported in your belt, but without sliding too much forward.
Giroflex is a typical chair in Switzerland... are we living in the same country :) ?
@@OlivierGirard Thank you for the suggestions. I am from the Netherlands :). I believe Giroflex is/was a popular brand here among offices. I recently bought the chair second hand online and was unfortunately not able to test the chair in person due to covid. It indeed feels as if I'm constantly sliding slightly out of the chair when sitting upright, so I will try to use a piece of anti-slip mat. I'm also unable to find a comfortable spot for the lumbar support, the transition between the lower part of the backrest and the upper part is quite pronounced. If the anti-slip doesn't help I will start looking for a new chair. It's a shame really... I guess it just confirms one should never buy a chair online without testing it first.
@@etienne2540 yep, that's the right conclusion! Although it won't resolve the problem, there's one more thing: make sure that the seat pan is pushed backwards (there's a button under the top left corner of the seat pan, close to the backrest). Enjoy your week-end!!
@@OlivierGirard Thank you again for the tip. I've been looking at some chairs to replace the giroflex. My eye has fallen on the RH Logic 400. I plan to sit in it to test if it's comfortable for me but I was wondering what your professional opinion about this chair is.
@@etienne2540 Overall, it's a good chair (under condition that it fits your morphology, which you can only assess by sitting on it 😅). I'm not too sure about the armrests though: the older versions had hard plastic armrests that were to far spread apart for most people. See if the have padded armrests... that would be way better for your elbows.
If I am not wrong, there's one more thing I'm not a great fan of: if you look at the seat pan tilt axis, you will see that lies is under the front edge of the seat. As the center of gravity of your body is somewhere above the gas spring, there's always a momentum around the tilt axis: it's a chair that keeps moving if you have it unblocked. The manufacturer argues that it's the best way to create a chair that follows your posture whilst you're in movement, but I find that it creates instability. Hence, I would use this chair blocked with a horizontal seat pan. Not a kill-criteria when it comes to buying, but just make sure that you test the function and see what you feel... makes sense?
Hi Olivier, I bought a Hinomi ergonomic chair and feel a lot of pressure against my lower back where the lumbar support is (to the point where I feel relief when I get up as my back is no longer against the lumbar support). Only my lower back is contacting the chair when I sit/ it is impossible anyway to lean back uncomfortably with the strong lumbar support. Is that normal or am I just not used to sitting in an ergonomic chair?
I have painful left buttock when sitting. Any tips please?
Do you recognize this type of pain, Angie: ruclips.net/video/PHXmQ8Pt0Nc/видео.html
Hi, thank you for the video.
One question: I tried this today and found my abs to be working in what to me is way more than they should. Could this be due to excessive forward lean? I felt like if I didn’t make an active effort then I’d fall forward.
You're welcome! I'm a bit puzzled at first sight: the abs will work when you lean backwards, not forward. So I don't really understand where what you feel can come from. If you want to send me pictures and get personal feedback to clarify this, feel free to use the whatsapp hotline: oliviergirard.ch/en/boutique/whatsapp-guidance/
Today I learned that I sit on the toilet incorrectly.