Wow, 11K likes! I'm deeply grateful for your support. Thank you! I also want to address some constructive criticism about the wrist and knee positions I've recommended. Wrist Position Criticism: The suggested wrist angle is not ideal and the position of the forearms on the desk increases the pressure on the forearm flexors. Response: Research indicates that wrist issues are more likely due to excessive keyboard use (over 20 hours a day) rather than wrist position (Bernard et al., 1992; Franzblau et al., 1993; Hales et al., 1994; Doezie et al., 1998, and Conlon et al., 2005). A study from 2008 focusing on individuals training over 20 hours a week found that an ideal wrist angle is less than 30 degrees, easily achievable with a thin, low-slope keyboard like the one I use (Rempel et al., 2008). Regarding the forearms pressure, the notion that forearms should be suspended to reduce flexor pressure is overstated. While it might be ideal to avoid desk contact, this alone is unlikely to cause injury. Simply putting pressure on an area doesn't injure you similar to how resting your back against a chair doesn't harm your back. I think that this misconception stems from people who already have forearm injuries or inflammation and experience discomfort with added pressure. However, this doesn't mean the pressure is the root cause of their injury but rather it is a stimulus that triggers their symptoms. Similar to having a knee injury that gets triggered by walking. In that case, walking is not the problem. Knee Position Criticism: The proposed knee position increases pressure and places the knees at a disadvantage. Response: Actually, the knee position is a key benefit of my recommended setup. The knees maintain a 90-degree angle, similar to traditional setups, but with a crucial difference: they're suspended without any weight or pressure, significantly reducing stress. This might be confused with other positions where weight is applied to the knees, which I agree, would not be ideal. But here, the knees are literally hanging, free from pressure. Additionally, this position benefits the hip flexors. Typically, having the hips at a 90-degree angle for extended periods can lead to hip flexor tightness. In the position I propose, by moving the legs down and back, we're extending the hips, similar to a standing position, which helps in alleviating tightness in the hip flexors. I hope this explanation helps clarify my points. I'm always open to further criticism, and I'll do my best to respond with the time that I currently have. References: - Bernard B, Sauter S, Peterson M, et al. Los Angeles Times, NIOSH Health Hazard Evaluation, HETA 90-013. National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, Centers for Disease Control; 1992. - Franzblau A, Flaschner D, Albers J, et al. Medical Screening of office workers for upper extremity cumulative trauma disorders. Arch Environ Health. 1993;48:164-170. - Hales TR, Sauter SL, Peterson MR, et al. Musculoskeletal disorders among visual display terminal users in a telecommunication company. Ergonomics. 1994;37:1603-1621. - Doezie AM, Freehill AK, Novak CB, et al. Evaluation of cutaneous vibration thresholds in medical transcriptionists. J Hand Surg (Am) 1998;23:759-761. - Conlon CF, Rempel DM. Upper extremity mononeuropathy among engineers. J Occup Environ Med. 2005;47:1276-1284. - Rempel DM, Keir PJ, Bach JM. Effect of wrist posture on carpal tunnel pressure while typing. J Orthop Res. 2008 Sep;26(9):1269-73.
Sir..how to maintain similar neck posture while reading books also? I have scoliosis issue and also preparing for civil exam. I have to study 8-12 hours a day.
Finally someone who tackles a modern life problem with an approach I can relate myself with. Another high quality and easy to watch video... Thanks for all your material🙏 Keep up the good work! kudos!!
This is great! I recently invested in a new motorized standing desk and a rocking stool but I was still having issues after sitting for 20 or 30 minutes, and I think your tip about moving the feet back to change the center of gravity was the key! It immediately felt right and more comfortable. Thanks!
I don't know man but touching the floor your toes with vertical feet and knees bending > 90 degrees doesn't exactly say "neutral position". Combine it with the saddle rocking chair and you get the perfect recipe for a very pronounced anterior pelvic tilt and later lower back disc compression.
Yes- the top joint of the body - the AO joint (where head meets spine) is critical. If this is free allowing the neck to ungrip, the rest of the body will organize better as well!
I moved almost 500 days ago, and I totally meant to get some cheap books from the local thrift shop to use to pile under my monitor, but I completely forgot to do that. I've had the monitor up on books for a few days now, after watching this video, and it's been great. I also have been sitting with my feet back to shift my center of gravity; that was a trick I didn't know so thank you!
bro, i've seen some of your vids and i wanna say no cap, your channel is one of the best youtube fitness channels in english. For real, your content are actually helpful and have scientific studies behind, no like the majority of fitness channels here. Just thank you, never delete your channel and keep going. Jesús te bendiga.
Thank you, man. Your video should be watched by everyone. This info could save everyone's back. Today I followed your advice and went from 30 min to 2h without being bored by back pain or neck. 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
as soon as i heard him talk about folding the knees, it started making sense. Have been trying forever to figure out why i couldn't keep myself from slouching. Now i can easily sit for 45-50 minutes without any trouble whatsover.. Thank You.
The problem is u don't, u don't have to hold a position this is the key. One of the best video ever, you give autonomy to the person u watches, this is so rare nowadays even with journalists.. U did a top job
"..you need to activate your lower back muscles that eventually get tired and you fall back" YES! Been struggle with this for the longest time! I'm going to give your tips a try thank you!
I appreciate you sharing this useful information. Your exposition of the topic from a scientific and physics standpoint, along with your recommendations, make this issue seem incredibly straightforward. Continue producing quality material. Cheers)
Im so Happy I found this! Im a physics PhD student writing my dissertation and in so much pain the last few years I can barely work ---all the ergonomic stuff I read and tried to do never helped bec I couldnt sustain those upright positions and would get tired and slump or lay down and cant stand sitting up for more than a few minutes ---physical therapy and expensive chairs have not helped ...cant wait to try this because it totally makes sense and fits my exact complaints! Thanks for sharing :D
I'm happy to hear that you found the video helpful! I'm sure you'll see improvement if you apply these tips. Wish you all the best for your dissertation!
Wow this is uncanny, I used to literally work in a position like 2:11 - it felt a lot more comfortable for my shoulders especially since I'm a relatively short guy working with a normal height sitting desk. I work standing nowadays but the upper body stuff is still really useful. Thanks!
How can you solve the problem of desk edge pressure on your forearms? Having elbows below the desk is great for your shoulders but then your forearms land right on the edge of the desk... A lower desk maybe?
I have been sitting like this (feet under hips) for years and all my back/torso fatigue+occasional pain went away. I found it super comfortable, same position as my motorcycle.
5:13 "no posture is good for all day long, no position is harmful for a small amount of time" thanks for noticing that! Switching your posture while working is a key.
WOW this was seriously do helpful! I tend to succumb to very bad posture when studying, reading, and working at my desk and my back and neck always hurts as a result! Thank you so much this will help a lot. I might consider that chair but I have to say it does looks a little goofy🤣 great tips though, you’re a life saver!
i love this and agree w everything i would add hands/wrists tho the position of hands and wrists not only affects the wrists themselves but the rest of the arm and the shoulders and spine as well i went to a split keyboard that tilts so my palms can face one another and i can never go back
love the legs behind the chair tuck really helps with not sliding which is what i constantly struggle with. I would love if you would provide tips on how to make seating properly on the large computer office chair for example to have different pads attached to it to make the perfect seating position.
another (most) important tip that was missed unfortunately - is the height of your desk. The one in the video is clearly way to high, which forces the wrists into an akward position and promotes circulatory problems in the legs (especially unhealthy for the women)
As I was watching the video, I've realised that I spend most of my computer time in this position any way - it just feels comfortable, and only when I think about "good"posture, I switch to this straight and rather uncomfortable one. Looks like, I won't be switching any more. thank you.
Yeah subconsciously I was doing that as well. The only problem is that this way of keeping your legs makes it good for your spine and muscles but it makes it very bad for the blood flow.
I been doing postures, wrong. And causing issues in back and neck. I learned today that - the legs should be back to give a balance. And keyboard should be near. Which I been doing wrong from a long time, I mean basic things like this I found the flaw. You used really well, with base thinking. Thanks man!
Thank you very much for this video. As someone who works in the IT industry, having to sit down most of the day in front of a screen is a pain and I always feel fatigued after a long day's work. Your tips surely helped with this.
We have Aeron chairs in my workplace and I spent some time tweaking the chair. Optimal for me is to lean the chair back and adjust the tension to my weight which causes the back to ‘float’. Coupled with a foot rest this makes it very comfortable.
I sit all day and never had big back problems or similar - my secret is that I can't sit still and change positions all the time. Really glad that you included that towards the end!
thank you a million times! I can't express how grateful I am for your help. Your video is exactly what I needed and, honestly, nobody else explained it as perfectly as you did. thqanks a lot!
Good tips. As a practical alternative to a fancy rocking... stool like that, having a "wobble cushion"(?!) is a great way to be less static during sitting. At least it helps me a great deal for gaming at home, working in the library or at my desk job now. A bit weird to sit on at first, but you can get used to hit quite quickly. Can highly recommend.
Interesting. All I see is correct support being 90 degrees. I'm in the market for a new office chair. So does than mean the spacing in front of the chair isn't as important?
Amazing video. Just another example of why "knees over toes" position is so optimal. Well done. I use a standing desk and keep the bluetooth keyboard underneath me. No sitting necessary. When I do sit, I place the bluetooth keyboard and mouse on my lap. I keep the computer in front of my eyes due to the multiple levels of my standint desk (essentially I am using a bookshelf. ) the stackiny books trick was such a good tip.
☝️ This. Sadly from a while back I'm suffering of poor blood circulation, and putting the legs in that position is a big no-no at least in regular chairs.
Finally the type of content I need. I do office work and paint digitally all day long, started to have pain on my shoulder and tried lots of thing but not these!
Ok, this was unexpected. I found this video randomly and I was sure it's another "90* everywhere!!!" type of video. I didn't like what I saw when you presented the first tips, but going forward I loved your general approach. I have severe back problems right now and your tips gave me a good idea on how to improve my setup. Thanks a bunch!
I was talking to a friend who just had back pain due to sitting wrong in a chair for long and doctor recommended him a belt. Opened RUclips and this was in my recommendation. Scary.
I had a terrible headache each morning and didn't understand what was going on. After that, I laid a couple of books under my laptop and it was the solution.
Can we at least acknowledge the insanity of our work-dominated culture that makes this kind of videos necessary and even seems natural in the first place?
I think, at least for me, the reason that putting my feet under the seat makes it easier to keep a neutral spine is not related to shifting the center of gravity but rather to hamstring tightness. For example, if I try to go further than the 90-degree angle and straighten my legs in the knees while sitting, I can hardly keep my lower back straight at all, with a lot of effort. And off course there is no talking about sitting this way for a long time. With 90 degrees this effect is weaker but still there. Bending the knees removes the hamstring tension. Thanks for the video, it got me thinking. For now I'm alternating between a simple chair and an office chair with a back that can recline and rock (which gives me some freedom to change posture), but I may try the rocking stool as well.
Brilliant. Thank you so much. I haven't been able to use a computer for years and years, I'm laying in my bed on my phone right now and that's how I use the internet. I want to get back to using a computer one day and you may have saved me years off of how long that's going to take to get me back to using a computer. I'm really grateful.
I'm going to try the positioning for posture, I have a bad lower back so hopefully this will help. Previously I have used a lower back support that had a pad behind my back and straps that went around my knees. It helped but was cumbersome when I needed to get up. I disagree on the monitor placement. Looking straight forward your eyes should be looking about 2/3rds up the screen. This is because your eyes have a field of view that will see the upper portion of your screen without having to move your eyes. That is unless there is something you need to see above your screen.
I just got diagnosed with mild scoliosis and military neck after using an ergonomic (?) chair for 1 year. Before that I was using a dining set chair and I was positioning my spine and legs in the way that you show in the video. Looking back, it was a poor and expensive decision on my part. I wish I had seen this video sooner.
I like the way you think. But a saddle stool gets the job done better to open up the angle of the trunk/legs, which is the key. Also, pressure on the pelvic floor is an issue too. Some get split saddles, but I think those can have their own issues and are expensive. I've never had one but my saddle is wide, so I spread my legs wide enough that my thighs take the weight off of the center off the saddle and my pelvic floor. I also shift around a lot.
@@YiannisChristoulas I got a cheap no name saddle stool off of eBay (vendor was "salon supply" or something like that) I think at least 10 years ago for $70 including shipping and took it to work. It's the best 70 I ever spent. I still use it, and the faux leather seat doesn't show any wear believe it or not. I can hardly believe it myself. Since then I've seen more saddle stools in the lower price ranges, but I've had no reason to try them since mine works fine for me. I have an adjustable "standing desk", but I sit on the stool most of the time. I got a very high (I think 32") stool since sitting on a high stool and standing I can use the same desk height rather than move desk up and down. I don't like saddle stools used low. I think all saddle stools can potentially cause issues with pelvic floor, but like I said I decided the way I sit (wide and pretty much doing hip stretches) and standing sometimes I figured might work as well as an expensive Finnish saddle that was split though I'd love to try one sometime. But I've heard some say they can be painful.
I get that this works for the shoulders, but my arms get really tired from having the keyboard at the edge of the table, and I've never found this comfortable at all.
And what about the knees? Doesn't this position harm 'em after sitting a little longer then 10-15 minutes? And what about staying this way with chronically ill knees? Any advice, maybe?
As a software engineer with 25 years of experience, let me give you simple tips. You need a monitor. Laptops are not good ergonomically. You need a much larger keyboard and a mouse. Again, laptops are really NOT GOOD ergonomically. Put a monitor on a book stack or a stand. Use normal or ergonomic keyboard. Use a mouse. Now you can work more than a couple of hours on a day and actually be productive and you won’t hurt yourself.
Great video! I've always struggled with another problem that if you are typing a lot using conventional keyboard when you bring it closer to you to maintain that 90 degree elbow angle you lose neutral position at your wrists. So as video says no position is good for the whole workday, you have to alternate between them and mix in some exercise time. Or you can type until you feel discomfort and then switch to something that don't require keyboard use, like reading something.
04:00 - I'd rather have my elbows fully on the desk, but myself much closer to the desk, with chair with my legs rolled up underneath it I ordered recently new desk for myself - 150 cm in length, 80 cm wide and 80 cm height. The width (or depth) is important for me, because with anything less than 75 cm I can't put my elbows on the desk freely (it needs to have the length of my forearms plus the laptop and keyboard in front of it. 80 cm height of the desk allows the laptop and monitor to be higher. But after watching your video I see I have the monitor at the same level as my eyes, and my laptop is lower, so I need to come up with something to deal with that, thank you
I've an issue with chronic inflammation (my orthopedic specialist suspects it's an autoimmune problem) that can be triggered by extended periods of time where my mucles/ tendons are being stretched (like how positioning the feet behind the chair would cause the ankles to be at a less comfortable angle). What I find is also an issue has got to do with the desk height - most desks or tables are designed for reading/ writing/ eating and the height is not 'correct' for using a keyboard or mouse (needs to be lower). One way I've found to deal with this is to raise the chair and use a foot rest so the legs are angled towards the front and allow sitting against the back rest while allowing my ankles to remain at a comfortable resting angle. The other method would be a height adjustable table so it can be lowered or to install a keyboard tray to an existing desk that allows the keyboard and mouse to be at a lowered position. I've tried the method of leaning forwards slightly but that just causes my inflammation to flare up in the shoulders/ neck (clavicle & levator scapulae).
In india also most of the manufactures producing over hight tables , Yes leaning forward put pressure on shoulder and neck , best thing is get a height adjustable table ,height adjustable monitor , perfect chair and 30 minutes yoga or exercise and 5km walking , whatever the chair desk you use, prolonged sitting is the killer of your health !
@@narayana06666 I agree; unfortunately, my body disagrees with exercise these days. The slightest strain (e.g. just a slow and short run to chase the bus) would cause a massive inflammation flare up. I do try to walk around a little at a time but do need to keep it short with longer breaks in between. Even now, I'm still hobbling around with inflammation in my ankles, feet, and knees and spent the past week or so in a wheelchair.
There's quite a few kneeling posture chairs on the market, there's a handful of niche chairs that offer cross-legged sitting or squatting postures, and I've noticed saddle chairs of various designs coming out more recently, along with the various stool style chairs; I've been interested in all three styles, but I've also been interested in combining them as a multi-posture chair that fits different needs. Though, I think this is only one of many fixes for one of many problems. Personally I like the lounge chair style, more specifically the kind where the seat itself is tilted back, this allows for neutral posture the the spine while remaining relaxed assuming the cushions themselves are ergonomic, while also keeping your lower legs at an upright while your feet are flat on the floor, and the backwards tilt allows you to relax while being held in this position; for similar reasons, I also like zero gravity recliners, I just wish there were more options for both that had correct spinal alignment cushions rather than just flat cushions or flexible materials. I also like the idea of having ergonomic vertical keyboards with integrated pointing devices at the arm of a chair, assuming the chair arms are placed properly or have the adjustments to be placed properly. You'd have all your input at one hand position, and that position wouldn't cause repetitive strain or nerve issues, at a neutral rest for your arms. This would also remove the need for the desk itself, monitors can be put on a floor stand or an arm that extends from the chair itself, laptop stands would work similarly, all of which can reduce floorspace taken by a typical desk and moving chair arrangement; and this works because you don't actually need a desk, which works better as a worksurface rather than a mouse and keyboard surface, we just use desks because they're an antiquated piece of furniture from when the pre-digital office actually required worksurfaces to do work on. With proper articulation and range, this could be adapted to work with standing postures and even laying postures, the peripherals would just have to follow your body's movements. Between the two, the ultimate end could should be an exoskeleton that cradles us in the correct position. Not only being a neutral or neutral-like position, but also a zero effort position where we can fully relax while still retaining neutrality. This would also help people who aren't in the best physical health conditions, people who're more likely to try to relax much earlier in the cycle of sitting in a chair, people who aren't going to have the core support to retain a neutral posture for long. The idea of an exoskeleton isn't even that far fetched of an idea, robotic exoskeletons have been in development for some time to assist labor workers, I believe one of the larger international automotive manufacturers have opted to give their factory employees exoskeletal legs that assist with a partial squat position, etc., why can't we apply the same kind of concept into an ergonomic work environment and have an exoskeletal frame that comfortably holds us in a neutral position with no effort required to hold that position.
this is great! MAybe a quick follow-up to discuss pelvic tilt, lots of people (including myself, lol) could probably benefit from talking about this aspect.
Yeah I find myself tilting my pelvis when I put my feet back... I can tuck it, but that's a conscious effort so eventually I'll get tired and start bending it again. Any tips? Thanks!
school almost gave me severe scoliosis because of how big i was compared to average heighted classmates and the desks were so small i had to stare down all the time if only this video changed the whole design of school chairs and tables
Thanks Man, I saw a chair from Japanese that have a sitting position exactly like u showed in the video before but don't really understand why it look like that. Now I understand more and going to buy it.
Good review of positions, been going through each option myself. Yiannis, the suggested position seems to put pressure on the toes and you shouldn't keep those bent for long time. Tried to find a comment on this but they're too many.I had a tendon issue once because of this bending of the toes. Any thoughts? Maybe include it as well as question in the pinned comment. Thank you for your effort!
I got lower back pain and tailbone pain, and the first part is almost exactly what I did on intuition, not even knowing that's how it works. I would put my leg of the chair legs and then lean forward to the table on my arms to reduce the pressure on my tailbone.
I have a small stool under the desk that holds my legs up, and the chair is slightly bent backwards so that my whole body is supported by its "shape". The chair is the right size for your back. Adjust the height of the desk so that it can fit between your elbows and legs.
Thank you for the video , i agree with you form thoracic spine and above But the the recomeded pose for lower limb is pushing the lumber into excicive extension compressing the posterior neural arch and guide the lower back into herniated disk by time Also this part of video is contradicting the Burger's module
Did you ever ask a Doctor you have problem with sitting on a Desk?... You only ask about Back pain which manifests after years of Bad Posture and that is point of no return..Only Pain killers or Surgical Correction will work
Although the point about gravity centre is clear, this position is a killer of your knees. Which is why this position shouldn't be used permanently. I agree that it's better to change positions regularly. But active movement is even better
Right video I saw at the right time 😃👍 But the last step I can't do as I am simultaneously working in two monitors. Do you have any solution for these kind of monitor users?
I love these ideas and presentation; it makes sense. Having sustained a moderate injury to my disks and associated nerve pain I'm adjusting my posture and seeing a physical therapist. All of the literature has feet flat on the floor; however, I suspect this needs updating based on the information you've presented. By chance, do you have references to current research that aren't buried by the millions of other articles? 🙂
thank you great video. I work with computers all day long. One question was when i checked the site for this chair it said the price was 351,50 Euros. That is really expensive unless i am getting the math wrong. Could you kindly put link to other chairs regularly available in the USA ?
In the past, CPU boxes were placed on desk and the monitor on top of it. A lot of monitors today are too low. I had neck pain for years before finally buying a vesa arm. Its the best thing one can have
When the video started I tried to find a posture that is naturally most comfortable. I automatically put my legs back. And then in the video later you show exactly the same posture. Bang On! I wonder why I never tried to try to put the legs back earlier. I guess I should get a MacBook stand and a wireless keyboard for the neck position. Thanks a lot. You've got a subscriber. And hope I'll have a comfortable sitting during my PhD😇.
Haha, yeah, it makes sense that you instinctively took this position. It comes naturally! Thanks for the support! I wish you all the best with your PhD 💪
Hi Yiannis, thank you for the informative videos, they help a lot. But, I have a question. How I should position my head while I am studying because I generally write on paper on an iPad and I can't position my head to look forward?
Wow, 11K likes! I'm deeply grateful for your support. Thank you!
I also want to address some constructive criticism about the wrist and knee positions I've recommended.
Wrist Position
Criticism: The suggested wrist angle is not ideal and the position of the forearms on the desk increases the pressure on the forearm flexors.
Response: Research indicates that wrist issues are more likely due to excessive keyboard use (over 20 hours a day) rather than wrist position (Bernard et al., 1992; Franzblau et al., 1993; Hales et al., 1994; Doezie et al., 1998, and Conlon et al., 2005). A study from 2008 focusing on individuals training over 20 hours a week found that an ideal wrist angle is less than 30 degrees, easily achievable with a thin, low-slope keyboard like the one I use (Rempel et al., 2008).
Regarding the forearms pressure, the notion that forearms should be suspended to reduce flexor pressure is overstated. While it might be ideal to avoid desk contact, this alone is unlikely to cause injury. Simply putting pressure on an area doesn't injure you similar to how resting your back against a chair doesn't harm your back. I think that this misconception stems from people who already have forearm injuries or inflammation and experience discomfort with added pressure. However, this doesn't mean the pressure is the root cause of their injury but rather it is a stimulus that triggers their symptoms. Similar to having a knee injury that gets triggered by walking. In that case, walking is not the problem.
Knee Position
Criticism: The proposed knee position increases pressure and places the knees at a disadvantage.
Response: Actually, the knee position is a key benefit of my recommended setup. The knees maintain a 90-degree angle, similar to traditional setups, but with a crucial difference: they're suspended without any weight or pressure, significantly reducing stress. This might be confused with other positions where weight is applied to the knees, which I agree, would not be ideal. But here, the knees are literally hanging, free from pressure.
Additionally, this position benefits the hip flexors. Typically, having the hips at a 90-degree angle for extended periods can lead to hip flexor tightness. In the position I propose, by moving the legs down and back, we're extending the hips, similar to a standing position, which helps in alleviating tightness in the hip flexors.
I hope this explanation helps clarify my points. I'm always open to further criticism, and I'll do my best to respond with the time that I currently have.
References:
- Bernard B, Sauter S, Peterson M, et al. Los Angeles Times, NIOSH Health Hazard Evaluation, HETA 90-013. National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, Centers for Disease Control; 1992.
- Franzblau A, Flaschner D, Albers J, et al. Medical Screening of office workers for upper extremity cumulative trauma disorders. Arch Environ Health. 1993;48:164-170.
- Hales TR, Sauter SL, Peterson MR, et al. Musculoskeletal disorders among visual display terminal users in a telecommunication company. Ergonomics. 1994;37:1603-1621.
- Doezie AM, Freehill AK, Novak CB, et al. Evaluation of cutaneous vibration thresholds in medical transcriptionists. J Hand Surg (Am) 1998;23:759-761.
- Conlon CF, Rempel DM. Upper extremity mononeuropathy among engineers. J Occup Environ Med. 2005;47:1276-1284.
- Rempel DM, Keir PJ, Bach JM. Effect of wrist posture on carpal tunnel pressure while typing. J Orthop Res. 2008 Sep;26(9):1269-73.
My guy brought the works cited! I really wish more people on youtube would do this
Sir..how to maintain similar neck posture while reading books also? I have scoliosis issue and also preparing for civil exam. I have to study 8-12 hours a day.
bro is genuine 🫡🫡
We dnt see this on YT
Great job
«excessive keyboard use (over 20 hours a day)»
- sounds like a challenge)
I’ve been wondering why I find my feet resting on the wheels after I sit for a while.
Exactly!
I agree. I naturally end up in that position or various others as the day continues.
That rocking chair looks good if not too low.
@@YiannisChristoulasi bought a 27 inch monitor and i found the hieght to be tall for me, i will be downgrading to 24 inch monitor.
Or the chair is too high and your feet is not reaching the floor
I always thought I'm a weirdo for doing this..
Finally someone who tackles a modern life problem with an approach I can relate myself with.
Another high quality and easy to watch video...
Thanks for all your material🙏 Keep up the good work!
kudos!!
I appreciate your support and I promise to keep them coming!
This is great! I recently invested in a new motorized standing desk and a rocking stool but I was still having issues after sitting for 20 or 30 minutes, and I think your tip about moving the feet back to change the center of gravity was the key! It immediately felt right and more comfortable. Thanks!
also try to work on your back musslces and abbs
How @@Pulko172
I don't know man but touching the floor your toes with vertical feet and knees bending > 90 degrees doesn't exactly say "neutral position". Combine it with the saddle rocking chair and you get the perfect recipe for a very pronounced anterior pelvic tilt and later lower back disc compression.
I can absolutely confirm that having your screen mounted high helps a lot, regardless of everything else.
Yes- the top joint of the body - the AO joint (where head meets spine) is critical. If this is free allowing the neck to ungrip, the rest of the body will organize better as well!
"Less effort to maintain neutral position" Is the key! Thank you for this great educational video🙏🏻🙏🏻💐
I moved almost 500 days ago, and I totally meant to get some cheap books from the local thrift shop to use to pile under my monitor, but I completely forgot to do that. I've had the monitor up on books for a few days now, after watching this video, and it's been great. I also have been sitting with my feet back to shift my center of gravity; that was a trick I didn't know so thank you!
bro, i've seen some of your vids and i wanna say no cap, your channel is one of the best youtube fitness channels in english. For real, your content are actually helpful and have scientific studies behind, no like the majority of fitness channels here. Just thank you, never delete your channel and keep going. Jesús te bendiga.
Thank you friend, comments like this keep me going!
Thank you, man. Your video should be watched by everyone. This info could save everyone's back. Today I followed your advice and went from 30 min to 2h without being bored by back pain or neck. 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
as soon as i heard him talk about folding the knees, it started making sense. Have been trying forever to figure out why i couldn't keep myself from slouching. Now i can easily sit for 45-50 minutes without any trouble whatsover.. Thank You.
The problem is u don't, u don't have to hold a position this is the key.
One of the best video ever, you give autonomy to the person u watches, this is so rare nowadays even with journalists.. U did a top job
"..you need to activate your lower back muscles that eventually get tired and you fall back" YES! Been struggle with this for the longest time! I'm going to give your tips a try thank you!
Exactly! Give it a try!
I appreciate you sharing this useful information. Your exposition of the topic from a scientific and physics standpoint, along with your recommendations, make this issue seem incredibly straightforward. Continue producing quality material. Cheers)
I’m glad you found this helpful! I’ll keep them coming!
Im so Happy I found this! Im a physics PhD student writing my dissertation and in so much pain the last few years I can barely work ---all the ergonomic stuff I read and tried to do never helped bec I couldnt sustain those upright positions and would get tired and slump or lay down and cant stand sitting up for more than a few minutes ---physical therapy and expensive chairs have not helped ...cant wait to try this because it totally makes sense and fits my exact complaints! Thanks for sharing :D
I'm happy to hear that you found the video helpful! I'm sure you'll see improvement if you apply these tips. Wish you all the best for your dissertation!
This is awesome! Thank you for breaking down your videos in such a well structured manner. I really appreciate it!
Wow this is uncanny, I used to literally work in a position like 2:11 - it felt a lot more comfortable for my shoulders especially since I'm a relatively short guy working with a normal height sitting desk. I work standing nowadays but the upper body stuff is still really useful. Thanks!
How can you solve the problem of desk edge pressure on your forearms? Having elbows below the desk is great for your shoulders but then your forearms land right on the edge of the desk... A lower desk maybe?
I have been sitting like this (feet under hips) for years and all my back/torso fatigue+occasional pain went away. I found it super comfortable, same position as my motorcycle.
5:13 "no posture is good for all day long, no position is harmful for a small amount of time" thanks for noticing that!
Switching your posture while working is a key.
WOW this was seriously do helpful! I tend to succumb to very bad posture when studying, reading, and working at my desk and my back and neck always hurts as a result! Thank you so much this will help a lot. I might consider that chair but I have to say it does looks a little goofy🤣 great tips though, you’re a life saver!
changed my life in 5 minutes thanks
i love this and agree w everything
i would add hands/wrists tho
the position of hands and wrists not only affects the wrists themselves but the rest of the arm and the shoulders and spine as well
i went to a split keyboard that tilts so my palms can face one another and i can never go back
love the legs behind the chair tuck really helps with not sliding which is what i constantly struggle with. I would love if you would provide tips on how to make seating properly on the large computer office chair for example to have different pads attached to it to make the perfect seating position.
One of the most and simple tips Ive seen. Thank you very much!
another (most) important tip that was missed unfortunately - is the height of your desk. The one in the video is clearly way to high, which forces the wrists into an akward position and promotes circulatory problems in the legs (especially unhealthy for the women)
As I was watching the video, I've realised that I spend most of my computer time in this position any way - it just feels comfortable, and only when I think about "good"posture, I switch to this straight and rather uncomfortable one. Looks like, I won't be switching any more. thank you.
Yeah subconsciously I was doing that as well. The only problem is that this way of keeping your legs makes it good for your spine and muscles but it makes it very bad for the blood flow.
This video has really improved my knee pain. Thank you for sharing 🙏🏾
thanks for promoting the 400 euro chair, it surely worth the price lmaoooooo
I been doing postures, wrong. And causing issues in back and neck. I learned today that -
the legs should be back to give a balance.
And keyboard should be near.
Which I been doing wrong from a long time, I mean basic things like this I found the flaw. You used really well, with base thinking.
Thanks man!
Great content! Would love to see more of that. I have been struggling for years with correct posture at my computer desk. This video helped a lot
Happy to hear this! If you struggle with this you might want to check my videos on how to correct Hyperkyphosis, Forward neck and Rounded Shoulders 💪
This is way better that all those videos that companies show to their employees about ergonomics at the office
Thank you very much for this video. As someone who works in the IT industry, having to sit down most of the day in front of a screen is a pain and I always feel fatigued after a long day's work.
Your tips surely helped with this.
Try working out.
Wow. This has not crossed my mind, like ever. Thanks for the quality tips.@@ross-morozov
We have Aeron chairs in my workplace and I spent some time tweaking the chair. Optimal for me is to lean the chair back and adjust the tension to my weight which causes the back to ‘float’. Coupled with a foot rest this makes it very comfortable.
I sit all day and never had big back problems or similar - my secret is that I can't sit still and change positions all the time. Really glad that you included that towards the end!
So whats the interval?
Every 30 minutes seems to be a commonly recommended interval. @@sreerajcalicut
thank you a million times! I can't express how grateful I am for your help. Your video is exactly what I needed and, honestly, nobody else explained it as perfectly as you did. thqanks a lot!
Same here
Good tips. As a practical alternative to a fancy rocking... stool like that, having a "wobble cushion"(?!) is a great way to be less static during sitting. At least it helps me a great deal for gaming at home, working in the library or at my desk job now. A bit weird to sit on at first, but you can get used to hit quite quickly. Can highly recommend.
Thank you for sharing this 🙏! Sounds like a good budget way to break away from the traditional fixed chair position.
Interesting. All I see is correct support being 90 degrees. I'm in the market for a new office chair. So does than mean the spacing in front of the chair isn't as important?
Amazing video. Just another example of why "knees over toes" position is so optimal. Well done. I use a standing desk and keep the bluetooth keyboard underneath me. No sitting necessary. When I do sit, I place the bluetooth keyboard and mouse on my lap. I keep the computer in front of my eyes due to the multiple levels of my standint desk (essentially I am using a bookshelf. ) the stackiny books trick was such a good tip.
This is a perfect video to portray algorithm forces only those things down your that you want to hear. Like obesity is good, or bad posture is good.
this makes so much sense. I'm gonna try this now and see how it goes. Thanks!
Glad to have found your channel. Keep the scientific and useful videos coming. Thanks!
Thanks for the support! I’ll keep them coming!
That leg position in a normal chair is almost guaranteed to give you a DVT blood clot for your troubles
☝️ This. Sadly from a while back I'm suffering of poor blood circulation, and putting the legs in that position is a big no-no at least in regular chairs.
I find the elbow is too low respect to the table. It creates compressions at the forearms and flexion of the wrist
True! I'd prefer for the table to be lower too. How did you find the rest of the advice I gave?
@@YiannisChristoulas great video! it explains very well the ergonomics a the VDT
@@federicoterenzi2382 Thank you Federico I appreciate your comments
Finally the type of content I need. I do office work and paint digitally all day long, started to have pain on my shoulder and tried lots of thing but not these!
I usually don't say this. But all I learned at school about sitting posture was a goddamn lie. Thanks for this info.
😂 I’m afraid, it might be the case
Ok, this was unexpected. I found this video randomly and I was sure it's another "90* everywhere!!!" type of video. I didn't like what I saw when you presented the first tips, but going forward I loved your general approach. I have severe back problems right now and your tips gave me a good idea on how to improve my setup. Thanks a bunch!
Wow...solution to all my problems in single video...your video is a gold mine...KUDOS..GR8 work
I was talking to a friend who just had back pain due to sitting wrong in a chair for long and doctor recommended him a belt. Opened RUclips and this was in my recommendation. Scary.
Highly informative and scientifically supported, not just opinion
I had a terrible headache each morning and didn't understand what was going on. After that, I laid a couple of books under my laptop and it was the solution.
Thank you! Your advice is very helpful! I tried it out and immediately felt more comfortable at my desk. 🤯
Can we at least acknowledge the insanity of our work-dominated culture that makes this kind of videos necessary and even seems natural in the first place?
That's why I work from bed
😂
@@YiannisChristoulasplease can you make a video on how to work properly from bed? Thanks
Bro😂😂
Using. 5 pillow 😂😂😂
I think, at least for me, the reason that putting my feet under the seat makes it easier to keep a neutral spine is not related to shifting the center of gravity but rather to hamstring tightness. For example, if I try to go further than the 90-degree angle and straighten my legs in the knees while sitting, I can hardly keep my lower back straight at all, with a lot of effort. And off course there is no talking about sitting this way for a long time. With 90 degrees this effect is weaker but still there. Bending the knees removes the hamstring tension.
Thanks for the video, it got me thinking. For now I'm alternating between a simple chair and an office chair with a back that can recline and rock (which gives me some freedom to change posture), but I may try the rocking stool as well.
Brilliant. Thank you so much.
I haven't been able to use a computer for years and years, I'm laying in my bed on my phone right now and that's how I use the internet. I want to get back to using a computer one day and you may have saved me years off of how long that's going to take to get me back to using a computer.
I'm really grateful.
I'm so glad to see that this video helped you! Keep it up and thanks for sharing this! 🙏
I'm going to try the positioning for posture, I have a bad lower back so hopefully this will help. Previously I have used a lower back support that had a pad behind my back and straps that went around my knees. It helped but was cumbersome when I needed to get up.
I disagree on the monitor placement. Looking straight forward your eyes should be looking about 2/3rds up the screen. This is because your eyes have a field of view that will see the upper portion of your screen without having to move your eyes. That is unless there is something you need to see above your screen.
I just got diagnosed with mild scoliosis and military neck after using an ergonomic (?) chair for 1 year. Before that I was using a dining set chair and I was positioning my spine and legs in the way that you show in the video. Looking back, it was a poor and expensive decision on my part. I wish I had seen this video sooner.
I like the way you think. But a saddle stool gets the job done better to open up the angle of the trunk/legs, which is the key. Also, pressure on the pelvic floor is an issue too. Some get split saddles, but I think those can have their own issues and are expensive. I've never had one but my saddle is wide, so I spread my legs wide enough that my thighs take the weight off of the center off the saddle and my pelvic floor. I also shift around a lot.
Shifting positions is key I agree. What is your saddle seat? I’d be interested in exploring other types of support
@@YiannisChristoulas I got a cheap no name saddle stool off of eBay (vendor was "salon supply" or something like that) I think at least 10 years ago for $70 including shipping and took it to work. It's the best 70 I ever spent. I still use it, and the faux leather seat doesn't show any wear believe it or not. I can hardly believe it myself. Since then I've seen more saddle stools in the lower price ranges, but I've had no reason to try them since mine works fine for me. I have an adjustable "standing desk", but I sit on the stool most of the time. I got a very high (I think 32") stool since sitting on a high stool and standing I can use the same desk height rather than move desk up and down. I don't like saddle stools used low. I think all saddle stools can potentially cause issues with pelvic floor, but like I said I decided the way I sit (wide and pretty much doing hip stretches) and standing sometimes I figured might work as well as an expensive Finnish saddle that was split though I'd love to try one sometime. But I've heard some say they can be painful.
Im honored to watch your videos 🙏🏻
Very high quality,
Direct with no bullshit,
Super nicely edited
Yet so simple
Thank you for sharing 🙏🏻
I get that this works for the shoulders, but my arms get really tired from having the keyboard at the edge of the table, and I've never found this comfortable at all.
Can you recommend a variation for people with postural kyphosis who struggle to maintain a straight spine because of pain?
Excellent video! Subscribed! You have explained a common problem in a simple way and I love your channel.
Brilliant. This might be the single most life changing video I watched.
Wow, thanks for the support. I’m glad you found this so helpful 😁
And what about the knees?
Doesn't this position harm 'em after sitting a little longer then 10-15 minutes?
And what about staying this way with chronically ill knees?
Any advice, maybe?
As a software engineer with 25 years of experience, let me give you simple tips.
You need a monitor. Laptops are not good ergonomically.
You need a much larger keyboard and a mouse. Again, laptops are really NOT GOOD ergonomically.
Put a monitor on a book stack or a stand.
Use normal or ergonomic keyboard.
Use a mouse.
Now you can work more than a couple of hours on a day and actually be productive and you won’t hurt yourself.
You have 25 years experience in being a clown😂😂😂😂
@@bonjovi7120 dang how he a clown?
@@reformedremiel you cannot have a circus without a clown
Thank you man, awesome advice!
Fully realetable man!! That is out of typical video that told us to sit like a robot for a long time.
Great video! I've always struggled with another problem that if you are typing a lot using conventional keyboard when you bring it closer to you to maintain that 90 degree elbow angle you lose neutral position at your wrists. So as video says no position is good for the whole workday, you have to alternate between them and mix in some exercise time. Or you can type until you feel discomfort and then switch to something that don't require keyboard use, like reading something.
the legs to the back tip is paramount for me
Nice presentation!! I recently had apine surgery and this helped me a lot
04:00 - I'd rather have my elbows fully on the desk, but myself much closer to the desk, with chair with my legs rolled up underneath it
I ordered recently new desk for myself - 150 cm in length, 80 cm wide and 80 cm height. The width (or depth) is important for me, because with anything less than 75 cm I can't put my elbows on the desk freely (it needs to have the length of my forearms plus the laptop and keyboard in front of it.
80 cm height of the desk allows the laptop and monitor to be higher.
But after watching your video I see I have the monitor at the same level as my eyes, and my laptop is lower, so I need to come up with something to deal with that, thank you
You’re very smart and I really appreciate your research
I've an issue with chronic inflammation (my orthopedic specialist suspects it's an autoimmune problem) that can be triggered by extended periods of time where my mucles/ tendons are being stretched (like how positioning the feet behind the chair would cause the ankles to be at a less comfortable angle).
What I find is also an issue has got to do with the desk height - most desks or tables are designed for reading/ writing/ eating and the height is not 'correct' for using a keyboard or mouse (needs to be lower).
One way I've found to deal with this is to raise the chair and use a foot rest so the legs are angled towards the front and allow sitting against the back rest while allowing my ankles to remain at a comfortable resting angle.
The other method would be a height adjustable table so it can be lowered or to install a keyboard tray to an existing desk that allows the keyboard and mouse to be at a lowered position.
I've tried the method of leaning forwards slightly but that just causes my inflammation to flare up in the shoulders/ neck (clavicle & levator scapulae).
In india also most of the manufactures producing over hight tables , Yes leaning forward put pressure on shoulder and neck , best thing is get a height adjustable table ,height adjustable monitor , perfect chair and 30 minutes yoga or exercise and 5km walking , whatever the chair desk you use, prolonged sitting is the killer of your health !
@@narayana06666 I agree; unfortunately, my body disagrees with exercise these days. The slightest strain (e.g. just a slow and short run to chase the bus) would cause a massive inflammation flare up.
I do try to walk around a little at a time but do need to keep it short with longer breaks in between.
Even now, I'm still hobbling around with inflammation in my ankles, feet, and knees and spent the past week or so in a wheelchair.
There's quite a few kneeling posture chairs on the market, there's a handful of niche chairs that offer cross-legged sitting or squatting postures, and I've noticed saddle chairs of various designs coming out more recently, along with the various stool style chairs; I've been interested in all three styles, but I've also been interested in combining them as a multi-posture chair that fits different needs. Though, I think this is only one of many fixes for one of many problems. Personally I like the lounge chair style, more specifically the kind where the seat itself is tilted back, this allows for neutral posture the the spine while remaining relaxed assuming the cushions themselves are ergonomic, while also keeping your lower legs at an upright while your feet are flat on the floor, and the backwards tilt allows you to relax while being held in this position; for similar reasons, I also like zero gravity recliners, I just wish there were more options for both that had correct spinal alignment cushions rather than just flat cushions or flexible materials.
I also like the idea of having ergonomic vertical keyboards with integrated pointing devices at the arm of a chair, assuming the chair arms are placed properly or have the adjustments to be placed properly. You'd have all your input at one hand position, and that position wouldn't cause repetitive strain or nerve issues, at a neutral rest for your arms. This would also remove the need for the desk itself, monitors can be put on a floor stand or an arm that extends from the chair itself, laptop stands would work similarly, all of which can reduce floorspace taken by a typical desk and moving chair arrangement; and this works because you don't actually need a desk, which works better as a worksurface rather than a mouse and keyboard surface, we just use desks because they're an antiquated piece of furniture from when the pre-digital office actually required worksurfaces to do work on. With proper articulation and range, this could be adapted to work with standing postures and even laying postures, the peripherals would just have to follow your body's movements.
Between the two, the ultimate end could should be an exoskeleton that cradles us in the correct position. Not only being a neutral or neutral-like position, but also a zero effort position where we can fully relax while still retaining neutrality. This would also help people who aren't in the best physical health conditions, people who're more likely to try to relax much earlier in the cycle of sitting in a chair, people who aren't going to have the core support to retain a neutral posture for long. The idea of an exoskeleton isn't even that far fetched of an idea, robotic exoskeletons have been in development for some time to assist labor workers, I believe one of the larger international automotive manufacturers have opted to give their factory employees exoskeletal legs that assist with a partial squat position, etc., why can't we apply the same kind of concept into an ergonomic work environment and have an exoskeletal frame that comfortably holds us in a neutral position with no effort required to hold that position.
this is great! MAybe a quick follow-up to discuss pelvic tilt, lots of people (including myself, lol) could probably benefit from talking about this aspect.
Yeah I find myself tilting my pelvis when I put my feet back... I can tuck it, but that's a conscious effort so eventually I'll get tired and start bending it again. Any tips? Thanks!
Thank you for plum line analysis to make your point well-known.😊
school almost gave me severe scoliosis because of how big i was compared to average heighted classmates and the desks were so small i had to stare down all the time
if only this video changed the whole design of school chairs and tables
Thanks Man, I saw a chair from Japanese that have a sitting position exactly like u showed in the video before but don't really understand why it look like that. Now I understand more and going to buy it.
Good review of positions, been going through each option myself.
Yiannis, the suggested position seems to put pressure on the toes and you shouldn't keep those bent for long time. Tried to find a comment on this but they're too many.I had a tendon issue once because of this bending of the toes. Any thoughts? Maybe include it as well as question in the pinned comment. Thank you for your effort!
I got lower back pain and tailbone pain, and the first part is almost exactly what I did on intuition, not even knowing that's how it works. I would put my leg of the chair legs and then lean forward to the table on my arms to reduce the pressure on my tailbone.
Section 2. Your hands will die sooner with this posture
That looks like a perfect position if you want carpal tunnel.
Good explanation! 👌🏼
(From India). ☺️
I have a small stool under the desk that holds my legs up, and the chair is slightly bent backwards so that my whole body is supported by its "shape". The chair is the right size for your back. Adjust the height of the desk so that it can fit between your elbows and legs.
Thank you for the video , i agree with you form thoracic spine and above
But the the recomeded pose for lower limb is pushing the lumber into excicive extension compressing the posterior neural arch and guide the lower back into herniated disk by time
Also this part of video is contradicting the Burger's module
If this is healthy, why don't professional physiotherapists and orthopedists recommend this posture?
So they can treat you and make money off you?
They don't want to you to be healthy
Did you ever ask a Doctor you have problem with sitting on a Desk?... You only ask about Back pain which manifests after years of Bad Posture and that is point of no return..Only Pain killers or Surgical Correction will work
because this is plainly wrong aha ?
Yet another great video tackling the subject of posture, thank you Yiannis!
Thank you Gonçalo!
Although the point about gravity centre is clear, this position is a killer of your knees. Which is why this position shouldn't be used permanently. I agree that it's better to change positions regularly. But active movement is even better
Right video I saw at the right time 😃👍
But the last step I can't do as I am simultaneously working in two monitors. Do you have any solution for these kind of monitor users?
Thank you boss ❤ love from India
The best video on ergonomics!!! Thank you!
Best video ever, on this subject. Thank you.
I love these ideas and presentation; it makes sense. Having sustained a moderate injury to my disks and associated nerve pain I'm adjusting my posture and seeing a physical therapist. All of the literature has feet flat on the floor; however, I suspect this needs updating based on the information you've presented. By chance, do you have references to current research that aren't buried by the millions of other articles? 🙂
...and scratch that request. I see I just needed to expand the description. Thank you. If you have additional research, please share. 👍
Voww .. what a great video , finally I underdstand where to keep legs for not to bend ,Thanks alot.
thank you great video. I work with computers all day long. One question was when i checked the site for this chair it said the price was 351,50 Euros. That is really expensive unless i am getting the math wrong. Could you kindly put link to other chairs regularly available in the USA ?
In the past, CPU boxes were placed on desk and the monitor on top of it.
A lot of monitors today are too low.
I had neck pain for years before finally buying a vesa arm. Its the best thing one can have
Brilliant, just what I was looking for. Thank you
When the video started I tried to find a posture that is naturally most comfortable. I automatically put my legs back. And then in the video later you show exactly the same posture. Bang On! I wonder why I never tried to try to put the legs back earlier. I guess I should get a MacBook stand and a wireless keyboard for the neck position. Thanks a lot. You've got a subscriber. And hope I'll have a comfortable sitting during my PhD😇.
Haha, yeah, it makes sense that you instinctively took this position. It comes naturally! Thanks for the support! I wish you all the best with your PhD 💪
Hi Yiannis, thank you for the informative videos, they help a lot. But, I have a question. How I should position my head while I am studying because I generally write on paper on an iPad and I can't position my head to look forward?