CAN YOU BE AN "ALT CHRISTIAN"?? Reacting to more alternative TikToks
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2021
- We take another deep dive into the world of alternative and emo TikTok! Who doesn't love the delicious combination of emo cringe and TikTok cringe??
--
🔴 TWITCH: / finnmckenty
--
🎉 PATREON: / thepunkrockmba
--
🔊 PODCAST (Spotify): bit.ly/prmbapodcast
🔊 PODCAST (Apple Podcasts): bit.ly/prmbapod
▶️ SPOTIFY PLAYLIST: bit.ly/prmbalist
--
🕹️ DISCORD: / discord
📲 INSTAGRAM: / finnmckenty
📲 TIKTOK: / finnmckenty
📲 TWITTER: / thepunkrockmba
📲 LINKEDIN: / finnmckenty
--
👕 MERCH: prmbamerchstore.com/ 
Развлечения
Come hang out on Twitch! www.twitch.tv/finnmckenty
"When did guitarists become assholes?"
They always have been.
Sincerely,
A Bass Player
As a guitarist who has seen the gatekeeping of the online guitarist community I agree. 🤷🏿♂️ I just try to be live and let live.
As the one who made that video I wasn’t trying to be an asshole
@@zackzaruba_ I was joking man. Love my guitar players. Can’t have a band without em! Just gotta give y’all some crap sometimes haha
@@zackzaruba_ It seemed to me like you were showing how guitarists are often total music nerds rather than the cool suave "musical chads", if you will, that people assume they are.
I'm a bass player as well and I can confirm lol
Thanks for the kind words my dude! Glad you were digging the Paramore country cover.
Not a country guy, but I like your country covers. Props to you on your birthday set, that shit was tight as hell. Love your content my dude.
i really enjoy your work. your blink stuff is just fantastic!
So you do what Florida Georiga Line does... However your versions dont suck!
This guys blink cover are on point!!! Love your “Tom Delonge” nailed it!
You effin rule Alex!!!!
The first girl is actually so awesome though. Her account is so positive and it helps me. I have a lot of religious trauma so it's hard for me to not immediately judge someone who is a Christian, but her account really helps me with that.
I work for Monster Energy. Finn, I bet you’d be really interested in how the brand grew as it relates to their intentional positioning as a “lifestyle brand” vs the competitor Red Bull and connecting with alternative cultures by just showing up at those kinds of events and putting cans in kids’ hands (an t-shirts!). You’re spot on, the core demographic is 18-35 blue collar motocross bros, but you gotta remember that in relation to other CPG marketing demographics, that is “alternative”. And it’s pretty damn genuine as far as the people at the top making decisions and designing the brands. I bring it up because it has a lot of application to the things you talk about for growing a music brand.
I would absolutely love to hear more!
You're spot on when it comes to Christianity and the fact that it just isn't compatible with being 'woke' i.e. feminism and the LGBT movement. I'll provide all the biblical citations, including translation notes from the Hebrew and Greek for people if they want, but they won't change my mind on it. That and being friends with people that essentially practice paganism. I'm pretty sure this what the entire book of 1 Corinthians is about.
And yes, I'm a former Catholic...I'm still a Christian but I don't attend church, even though I'd like to.
Oh and yeah, the guy in the comments is actually right, the stuff concerning different fabrics and things like dietary laws were specifically abolished under the New Testament. There's a reason why Christians have no problem eating shellfish or pork or wearing clothing of different fabrics, it isn't hypocrisy it's just biblical teaching. The rules against homosexuality definitely still apply though.
But why do Christians not follow the Old Testament? Isn’t the 10 commandments in the Old Testament? If they follow some things from the Old Testament why don’t they follow it all? Did God say somewhere in a Bible to disregard things from the Old Testament? Why would it be in the Bible in the first place if God were to disregard it later?
@@juliaalvarez537 the old testament is very important in the christian believe aswell. God doesn’t necessarily say that the old testament should be disregarded but some of the rules weren’t necessary anymore since Christ died on the cross. Some of the rules weren’t necessary anymore cause they were made during a period where the jews were living in harsh environments and traveling through the desert in a huge group. The rules were essentially made for their protection at the time. The Ten Commandments still aply tho.
Aren't the verses in the NT talking about abusive relationships between older men and younger boys, rather than loving same-sex partnerships?
I went to a metal music festival this past weekend and I saw a few things that made me think. I saw one girl with a huge tattoo of baphomet on her back. Blackcraft cult was there and they sell things like ", Satan is my daddy" on their clothes. And I'm like are they really devil worshipers? And even if you don't believe in the biblical devil, why would you want to support something representative of pure evil? Like they say and I'm paraphrasing but the devil tries to make people think that there is no devil.
I think it's possible to be a Christian while also liking the alt scene. It just requires separating yourself from the "progressive" aspects of the scene. Like many of the conservatives in the alt scene do
Agreed
@@FinnMckentyPRMBA oh wow I wasn't expecting you to actually reply, that's awesome keep up the great work with the awesome videos
I mean this is his point in the video. You can't really be in or support of the alt scene while you also hate lgbtq people because rhe Bible says so. At that point you're just a Christian who doesn't like country music as much as other Christians lol
@@inDefEE where does the Bible say to hate gay people?
Definitely. Always loved the music but can’t stand the politics, especially since everyone in the scene coincidentally all seem to have the same opinion on everything 🧐
Damn, that self-awareness thing could quickly degenerate into self-hatred. I just hope that the guys reading this comment will force themselves to approach a goth chick the next time they see one
If a woman is checking you out just walk over and talk to her. Some women may approach a guy but it's usually up to us to start a conversation. A lot of guys get hung up on their insecurities. Most women don't trip over the things we might care about. And vice versa. I hope he does feel better about himself though. Too many people sell themselves short. I'm more reserved online because I don't like having to focus on a camera lol. (ADHD) Offline I'm more outgoing or social, just depends on how I'm feeling.
@@Chill-mm4pn I want to live in a world where women approach men. I think this would be really better for both genders.
I hate the fact that it is my duty as a man to do the first step if I want to get laid before I get 40 🙄
I'm a fucking douchebag in person! I'm not sure how self aware I am though...
During the 00's alternative scene everything was ironic or sarcastic and nothing was ever sincere. Now, everything is hyper-sincere and hyper-literal. It might have to do with text communication becoming ubiquitous (texting, twitter, etc.) and the fact that sarcasm doesn't translate well through text or it could just be generational. It just doesn't surprise me that kids nowadays have no issue with labelling themselves as "alternative" without the faintest hint of irony.
This is a good point
Very interesting point on sarcasm in text messages!! A big part of sarcasm used to be the tone of voice, but now when people are using text to communicate, and the /s ruins the joke, people just read the joke/take/whatever as it is and don’t even care anymore whether it’s sarcasm. I wonder if deadpan comedy has has an increase too.
I would personally say it’s generational because they’re looking back at it without that knowledge and are taking it at face value as super literal
I tried to explain to a teenager recently that we often used lol and /s etc to show we were joking when texting became more popular amongst kids and they legitimately didn’t understand it
Speaking as one of those kids who was a “alternative” Christian, we were mostly people who wouldn’t have believed if we hadn’t been raised in it. So you have a bunch of people drop Christianity not too long after they are adults because we weren’t that devout to begin with. It’s also a very conflicting way for a person to live.
I'm curious, what do you think is conflicting about it?
@@samw6344i agree, you can still have faith while presenting yourself differently
Went from skillet to ABR to appreciating Lorna Shore. I can always appreciate the talent even if I don't love the lyrics. This channel actually helped me explore a lot or newer genres. We have a Christian metal dudes group chat at church where we share child of waste songs and get made at wage war for lot re-releasing blueprints.
Yeah I also did the whole Skillet to ABR thing... Not really into Lorna Shore though lol although bands like that can do some insane vocals
Your take on silverware is totally spot on lol. I just turned 36 and finally got my own place (living without a GF or roommates) and got black silverware. First time not having a mishmash of random silverware I have collected over the years. It feels pretty adult.
I feel like TikTok is one of two things. Either short form entertainment or straight purposeful cringe for the sake of laughs.
Porque no los dos?
@@inDefEE I guess both are possible haha
Man, as a Christian who spent most of my life doing mental gymnastics trying to be both into Christianity and as well as all these ideas that conflict with them, I 99% agree with everything you said, and I guess instead of walking away from the Christianity, I did the opposite and walked away from my mental gymnastics that tried to justify the beliefs that conflict it. The only one percent I disagree with is when you mentioned Leviticus laws because the New Testament on multiple occasions informs us that those were laws for BC Israel only and that we aren’t held to thoughts laws, the OT documents those laws but in context they are not commands that we follow today in order to follow God. (It would be like following laws from the German empire in 1875 in modern day America. They were laws at a different time in a different place, unlike timeless commands in the Bible). Sorry for the long comment but I think you have awesome commentary, great ideas, a good thinker, even in places where I may disagree, love that Christian Core video you did, and love you man.
As someone who got into it with the hype around that time, and even flirted with the nominally non-denom bunch, but would always end up in a more progressive corner of the whole, I highly recommend some good reads to anyone having doubts.
Also, you are more likely to find tolerance in Mainline churches than in Evangelical & Pentecostal, and most of the Christcore kids came from the latter (denominational Southern Baptists included).
““Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.”
Matthew 5:17-20 ESV
@@CalebNathanaelNettles the 10 commandments but way to miss the mark and literally just ignore everything else.
Well was it okay then? Was it ever moral to stone someone to death for working on the sabbath or being gay? Kind of sounds like the Bible is a jumbled mess and Christians over time choose what they want to believe.
@@prodjarrett810 r/whoosh
Love your videos Finn, I don’t mean any disrespect because I spent 15 years a fervent atheist, but your understanding of that part of Christianity is a little incorrect. You would be correct if talking about fundamentalist Christians, who are ignorant of our tradition, and rely on their own radical interpretations of scripture but I know in Catholicism (and Anglo-Catholicism) we teach that we’re beholden to the New Covenant, the OT is for wisdom, prophecy, and we do adhere to the 10 Commandments. But even our Jewish brothers no longer follow the laws of Leviticus. You will see crazies like Westboro Baptist Church and those losers protesting outside college campuses throwing around verses from Leviticus, but I know in the “alternative scene” (I remember when that word was a joke too) we had a tendency to use that stereotype as our standard for Christians. No hate towards ya, I think it’s cool you were willing to put out something that might make a few butts hurt, it’s one reason I love your channel so keep it up - just wanted to express an opinion coming from a ex-Catholic Catholic. Lol
Thank you! Yes I understand this position but I don’t agree with it- the Bible is either the word of God or it’s not. Picking and choosing what to believe is shaking intellectual ground IMO
@@FinnMckentyPRMBA ex Christian here too, so I really don’t have a dog in this fight, but “it’s either God’s word or it’s not” feels a bit reductive. The Bible does not exist in a vacuum-it’s mired in context, and the metaphysical circumstances are fluid (not to mention that our English translations often reflect the perspective or understandings of the translators). If we’re not heavily examining and trying to interpret all that context, we may be leaving an awful lot up to unexamined assumptions. Ultimately, I think there’s a lot of room for different, well-defended interpretations of the messages, which explains the diversity of denominations within the church.
Interesting video and topic, btw!
@@FinnMckentyPRMBA I agree with @Riley Witiw here as well. That is a bit reductive of you. The overall picture presented in the Bible is greater than the single book of Leviticus or the OT in general. When taken in context, it does hold together more than what you are giving it credit for. Should Christians be like the fundamentalists that we see on every new media out there, no (IMHO). The idea is, the law (OT) was the law, but the total fulfillment of it was impossible for man to grasp, so God sent Jesus to fulfill it so that we could have a covenant that would be possible for man. Part of that (Matthew 7) encourages Christians to avoid the type of judgement that condemns most fundamentalists. The ultimate say so is God's (His judgement); he gives us wisdom to see what came before, and what we need to take from it to move forward. If we err, we err; we are only human. One last thing here is that pastors I follow and listen to all go back to the original language to see what was really meant by the passages (especially in the OT where the King James can get pretty rough for most). Still love the channel, and thank you for the video and discussion!
The thing for me is, alternative culture is about rebelling against the status quo and about idividualism. The God of Abraham is usually defined as a lawgiver, the arbiter of morality etc. So these two are contradictory to eachother. If you believe in a personal god who respects individualism and simply guides you on your personal journey by your OWN standards, and you simply choose to believe that Christ was his son, I wouldn't call him the God of Abraham. Actually, I'd be more comfortable calling him Satan (if you look into modern satanism, it's kind of the same philosophy behind it). But people absolutely do pick and choose what to believe and there is a lot of confirmation bias in interpreting the Bible. All in all, it all tends to be a bit shaky. It's extremely difficult to define Christianity and the philosophy behind it when you can't even agree on whether the Bible is the direct word of God or if it was simply inspired by God. What you end up with is centuries of confirmation bias, looking for proof of something you already believe in and have a parasocial relationship with, meanwhile trying to incorporate the advancement of human ethics and philosophy and science and say that 'it was always meant to be interpreted this way'...
@@FinnMckentyPRMBA The Bible claims that the Word of God is Jesus. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the word of God. That’s something we add to it from ignorance 🤷🏻♂️
Alex Melton also does the reverse and redoes country songs in pop punk. The guy is amazing and is going to blow up. Glad to get to watch it from the beginning.
Referring to seeing the scene kids out in the wild, if you went to Highschool during all of the scene/emo trends then you saw these outfits on the daily.
I worked at a pizzeria in college - there was a group of scene kids from the local high school who often came in for lunch. Among them were twin sisters who always had the most elaborate scene outfits/hair every time I saw them around town.
Monster has always been alt in my eyes, thinking back to gigs where the band members would be drinking monster water
Wtf is monster water????
@@DeadzoneMusic it was just water in a monster can to make it look like the band is drinking monster
I think Monster has been a part of scene ever since they had a trailer at Warped Tour. All the dudes on stage drank Monster branded cans of water. Standing in line for a free Monster was the only way to get a drink other than free water.
Hahaha! You got it right the first time with "dirtbag culture".
The resonates with me so much. My church friends and I lived in different places but the middle meeting ground to see each other was Christian youth group where we would attend and hang out then quickly sneak away and hide in unoccupied rooms in the church and listen whatever CDs we picked up since the last time we met or at the mall if we could get our parents drive us there. We weren't too reckless like we never got in trouble with thr law of that sort except for maybe getting kicked out of the mall by mall cops occasionally ( they were huge dicks ). I felt there was definitely a social pressure to hold onto the identity being a Christian because that's what our parents wanted of us and perhaps we were scared that if we said we didn't want to believe that maybe they maybe not let us hang out. But yeah, I knew a lot of people in the alternative scene said they went to church but was mostly to just hang out with new friends and skate or play basketball.
You should definitely check out the Alt Christian band, Lamb of God. They're pretty legit in the eyes of the lord.
I mean, monster did sponsor warped tour. The tour water was in a monster can. Hard to get more scene than warped tour in the 2010s
First time hearing y’alternative and i can definitely get behind it!
We watch the same shit on TikTok lol these people are modern time capsules
The aliens must be so confused by what they see on our sad planet
Very surprised to see you here, but it's a welcome surprise
The irony of being an OG scene kid(that went to a catholic school and wore a uniform) and the memories of the mockery, and now these kids exist. 😂 I was threatened with being expelled for having blue hair, someone I know was. I don’t get how catholic and alt go together when one punishes the other.
Having also gone through it, I think Catholic school dress codes are really about teaching discipline, not any lesson about the style itself. Nobody thinks you go to hell if your hair touches your collar or your shirt is untucked, but you will be in a scenario as an adult where you have to adapt, conform, whatever in order to get what you want, like a paycheck or a pitch meeting.
I think Christianity and alternative go together pretty well. I'm sure you couldn't wear what you wanted at the catholic school as you said you had a dress code. Colored hair is part of that. I know it seems easy to blame a religion when you've had a bad experience and maybe there are some Christians who think there's only one way to be a good Christian especially in respects to how you dress or look, but that's not everyone. You don't have to be one type of person to have faith or one type of person to be "alternative"
In Europe I feel like Monster was always part of the alt scene, growing up during those years I always saw the emokids drinking Monster over Red Bull or any other brand.
Yeah same in the UK
In the UK it was very much the kids in BMTH shirts drinking that (I was one lmao), there's another drink that I'm not sure is available outside the UK called relentless that was also popular
Yeah it may not have been the OG 04-09 emo/alt kids drinking it, but it was DEFINITELY the 2010-2014 kids.
Yeah same in UK. It started with relentless and rockstar then monster came and just took over.
I had no idea that emo was a thing in Europe. I always thought it was just an English-speaking country thing.
Growing up in the South, there was a decent amount of this. It was hard to find other metal musicians who weren't making Christian music. Also, it was hard to find metal-adjacent girls unless you went to church.
Well im still deep into alt, on the music and fashion end, but growing up Christian and still being an active Christian as well as a very broke individual until recently prevented me from being too deep into the shit aside from my music listening for years. Now that I have the chance to express myself through clothes and clout, I choose not to get too wrapped up in proving myself through clothes. I came to the conclusion years ago that I have nothing to prove to anyone about reconciling my taste in music and my beliefs because if its hypocrtical I gotta duke that out between me and the Holy Spirit, not to other people. They get elitist and weird about whats "trve cvlt" and I dont wanna hear that bull from a musical fetus who wont listen to pop or country because its too mainstream or whatever. Over these last 15 years, Ive expanded my tastes a lot, got away from elitism about music and because im more chill about things, I dont feel much if I dont come off as punk or metal to others when I go for shows. I paid $120 for my plats, $80 for the skirt, and like $50 on the tour hoodie, im not getting them scuffed or twisting my ankle at a show just to prove shit to anyone. Im just about it and thats it. No gymnastics involved I just have my priorities straight.😑
I appreciate your insights, Finn; thanks for having an open mind and understanding different perspectives.
Thanks for watching!
Yo I love all this twitch content, glad seeing you react to content that actually interests you :)
Here in germany I see a lot of people dress like the girl in the first tiktok, most of them are under 18 and some of them are my friends and there are a lot of people that are in that alternative scene, but also most of them go along with the lgbtq community and are non-binary and I met so many people on the csd or sth and it`s so cool to see such a big variety of alt kids, even when most of them come from a k-pop scene and not an alternative music scene. Somehow they kinda got into alternative music through k-pop idk why tho
The first time I became aware of K-pop was in jr. high like 14 years ago when the scene kid thing was beginning. A lot of the dress style was influenced by J-rock and visual kei bands from Japan but that also extended to harijuku fashion and Japanese pop culture. If I remember correctly, k-pop was also kind of In the mix as it sounded similar to j-pop and to western teenage girls it was foreign and cool. A lot of the girls I knew back then had j-pop and k-pop songs on their MySpace pages so that might be where it comes from.
Monster injecting itself into the scene with free samples on warped tour and stuff was a genius marketing move.
Finally got a minute to watch one of Finn''s vids and I find the giant piece of Awesome!!! Keep doing your thing I always learn something.
There is nothing more “alt” than being a Christian in 2021. & by Christian I mean someone who actually believes & attempts to practice the teachings of Christ which are the antithesis of the world around us
Lmfao
HAHAHA
@@nihilistnico thanks for your input
@@DylanKarbo I appreciate the thoughtful response
Painfully true. Starting to see a shift happening this year though, many returning to their faith
Ahhhh reading the old metal sucks articles. That image is still saved in my pics on my Mac lmao
Wow. As someone that is a Christian and, correct me if I’m wrong but, I’m assuming you aren’t a Christian, I actually agree with everything you just said. Being a true Christian isn’t compatible with those beliefs. That doesn’t mean you have to hate people. But you can’t condone or agree with much less be any of those things and claim Christianity. Props for having a more accurate and true take of Christianity than most people that claim to be Christian have.
0:49 Clawed Beauty! I follow this girl. She makes a lot of very sweet & wholesome content. She’s very cool.
yeah she seems really sweet and cool
Finn! Definitely check out Alex’s pop-punk covers of other songs. Sooooo good
Monster wasn’t really scene culture, but later on a lot of people that were scene kids started drinking it afterwards because of warped tour and other music festivals. So it’s kind of the merger of post-scene and scene revival that’s retconning it in. I do remember drinking a LOT of monster in my scene days though but it wasn’t ever a part of the “look” to drink it.
I wasn’t religious but For Today slapped hard back in 2008-2009
Monster was extreme sports culture and that had major crossover for scene kids in rural areas.
Nailed it again!
I will quickly correct as a former Christian that Levitican law and all of the messages in Leviticus were laws set for Israelites in 800 BC. They were intentionally difficult rules such as not being able to eat from a tree that hasn't born fruit for a certain # of years or not being able to wear clothes made from two different materials. These laws were abolished after Christ's sacrifice which is why Christians no longer have to do any old ass animal sacrifices in the name of God like the Bible used to have.
So being alt and christian can be a lil compatible, but I find it all to common that alt culture is the push many kids needed to get away from the institution they were locked in since birth.
I am a devote Christian, and I am alternative, I do not believe in the woke agenda, a person can be alternative, and still have conservative values. We do exist. Most people don’t choose to be alternative, we just are, For some young people it may be a stage, but for most, it’s just our personality. I don’t cherry pick the bible, I believe in all of the Solas of Christianity. I do not try to use the bible to justify anything, I am who I am, and that’s it.
People needs to stop putting others in a box, and they need to stop being Judgment, and stop believing every stereotype is true.
You were talking about kids referring to themselves as alternative, and it reminded me of being younger, and using “scene kids” as a perjorative, usually referring to the kids who’d come out to shows, just to hang out and show off their fashion, and a lot of times they’d come with NO MONEY, they’d try to haggle to get in, but usually end up hanging outside the venue smoking or something. Hence “scene kids”, caring more about “the scene” than the local bands or music. I don’t know when that shifted.
I don't know if I can call myself this but....Alt Christian or whatever, here, and I don't hate the LGBTQ, I'm also not progressive OR conservative because being a Christian, at least I thought, was not synonymous with something political. I don't hate anyone who has a different lifestyle or belief....in fact I am open to hearing and having a basic conversation about our beliefs.... I know that Christians, sadly, have made a huge mess of A LOT OF THINGS and caused a great deal of harm that I often am embarrassed and lament the ways we as followers of Jesus have hurt people (and who knows this more than African American folks at that who have had a very tumultuous history with American Christianity during slavery and so on).... And I won't defend the BS things that we have done without apology or supposedly doing so in the name of God. If someone feels uncomfortable even associating with me because I am a Christian, that's cool. I think we need to acknowledge the things we have horribly gotten wrong and be honest and listen. I don't hate my neighbors or any human being made in God's image because we are commanded to love people. You don't have to agree with me, but just pointing some thing out here.... The "pick and choosing" you may see maybe are 1) different interpretations of the passages of scripture - because according to what tradition or denomination everyone interprets or exegetes or "eisegetes" passages based on different ways of coming to the Bible -or- 2) people who have not properly studied to understand where they are in terms of their beliefs -or- 3) people projecting their unbiblical views onto what they are doing. It takes having those conversations to see that there is a diverse range of Christians and they don't all look the same or even believe the same doctrines or understand the Bible in the same way - which is fine depending on non-essential things (which even that varies). And look, I also appreciate that we don't always HAVE to know everything but there are just gunna be some things we simply don't know or can know. I do think it's kinda unfair to make an assumption (by pulling scriptures out of context at that) to assume that Christians can't be alternative or are somehow taught to "hate" LGBTQ people and if they aren't doing so then they aren't "real Christians". Kinda not being entirely balanced or honest there at that.
23:27 Yep, at 15 I walked away. Not my beliefs.
If alt Christian exists, I am the darkest of them all.
Man these clips. I forgot scene was even gone but damn.
Doesn't it work out that basically these 20-something scene kids are just the same kids who were scene originally, just reviving it? Or are they the younger siblings of scene kids who are like "now is my time to shine like my sister did 10 years ago!" as they go through their old bedroom finding fishnet gloves and chokers in a box in the closet.
As for Alt-Christian and stuff, I mean, I definitely feel what the Finn is putting down and share a similar uncertainty about the true nature of the situation for these folks; but also I mean, it isn't surprising or that odd to find people trying to weave together disparate and at times conflicting ideology into a new livable compromised perspective. It's how humans do. I remember feeling similar ways back when I grew up as a teenager seeing kids at church with Stone Cold parody shirts saying John 3:16 and shit.
I don't have any religious practice or faith for that hokey religion left in me, but isn't it essentially a given that all religions are human structures around interpreting an understanding of some supernatural aspect? Being Christian or Jewish or Buddhist or Scientologist is not specific enough, there's a lot of genres of each, and all are made as a collective agreement as to how to structure belief of something beyond humanity. Ultimately all have to admit these are human organizations subject to human flaw (even if some claim divine origin)
Thus some of these 'genres' are interpreting their foundational texts in a way that allow for progressive practice and others don't; and ultimately they are all just man-made social groups and social-structures that are attempting to come to terms with something that usually they admit is beyond human comprehension, so any number of asterisks, strike-outs, and contextual justifications are always going to be part of any religion no matter how fundamentalist. Which is how and why these mental gymnastics are an integral part of religious practice across the board.
I would wager all human ideology requires the brain to go to some length to stitch together and weave through disparate and sometimes inconvenient fact points into something resembling a coherent perspective and so religion is not special here.
Some religion/lifestyle mashups require a lot more mental athleticism than normal tho, that's for damn sure.
Dude! Head on with the Christianity part! I do hope you understand that Christians are not actually required to follow old testament customs like you mentioned. Those rules were abolished when Jesus rose from the dead and the new testament (covenant) was put in place.
As a Christian that is deep into the alternative scene you are totally right about all that and it is tough. Thank you for calling out the "gymnastics" in modern Christianity I cannot believe you just did that 😂 very important though.
Bloody hell, after all these years I figured out that Sergeant D was Finn, wtf. That was peak metalsucks era yo
“Friends with tons of witches” huh? Lol that’s a fun way to say cat ladies
I'd just like to preface this by saying that I'm not intending to be that one squeaky wheel who gets all the attention, intentionally make people upset or insult anyone, I'm simply stating my beliefs, opinions and what I know to be true. Now that that's out of the way, here's my thoughts:
TLDR: It's possible to be "Alt Christian" because the alt culture is all about being you and not conforming. I think that if you listen to the music, wear the clothes and enjoy it (ie not doing it to be cool) you can be punk, emo, goth or whatever other scene you wanna be in.
It is definitely possible to be "Alt Christian". Sort of. As you said, you can't really go all in both ways. As a Christian. I strongly believe that anything that is not of God, is of the world and therefore the Devil. Do I believe that everyone who doesn't believe in God is actively building altars to Satan? No. Plenty of people who don't believe in Christ are great people. Those people who say that "wEaRiNg PaTcHeS oN a VeSt Is A sIn" are wrong. I can guarantee you that they couldn't find any hard evidence in the Bible that it's true. Let's say that they found something in Leviticus that says that wearing two pieces of cloth is a sin and deserves a stoning. That can be not contradicted, but fixed because in the New Testament, Jesus got rid of all the old Jewish laws because it was too legalistic. He shortened them down to two commandments. Love God and Love others. That's it. And by hating on people who dress a certain way, like a certain kind of music or has a certain sexual orientation is not truly being Christian. Before y'all yell at me, just because Christians don't necessarily support LGBT and other woke stuff, doesn't mean we hate you. That would be going against the two commandments that Jesus put in place (yes, you still should refrain from cheating, stealing, killing etc. but, such a legalistic view of "you must roate crops every x number of days and sacrifice your fattest calf" is essentially making a God breathed religion man-made.)
As for the Alt side of things, it's much more opinion based. I enjoy alt music (MCR, Green Day, Nirvana) and even some "satanic" (even though it has been debunked) bands like AC/DC and Led Zeppelin. The only difference between me and someone who fully immerses themselves in alt culture, is that I'm not woke. If that makes it impossible to be considered a healthy mixture of punk/grunge on a technicality, then so be it. Alt culture is all about being you, not being what everyone else is. Just because I (and others like me, "alt Christian") stay away from the political views - honestly I don't even go towards the right side, don't really care either way, don't agree with pride stuff, feminism (that doesn't mean I dislike women. Some of my favorite celebs are women like Jen Ledger, Christina Grimmie - RIP, Jenna Ortega) and even fictional characters like Batgirl (there isn't enough Babs supremacy), Wonder Woman, Gwen Stacy, Sidney Prescott, Gale Weathers, Lois Lane and Harley Quinn, or whatever other beliefs people have that go against the Bible, doesn't mean that we can't enjoy living the way we want to. I like wearing the clothes, listening to the music and the minimalist lifestyle, but not all the liberal beliefs.
Idk, maybe I'm not alt because of all these things, maybe you call me a poser. I'm living how I want to and just trying to be a peaceful human while doing it. I do hope that I didn't offend anyone too badly and any thoughts or comments are more than welcome! Hope y'all have a good night/day:)
I think there was a period in the mid 2000s where pretty much every energy drink was pretty mainstream among teenagers. I think Monster eventually got coded the way you say but I think that happened a few years later, closer to early 2010s. By that point, every subcultural clique had their on-brand energy drink to consume (or look down their nose at while drinking highly caffeinated espresso drinks). My group was a mix of mall emos and wannabe skaters in the northeast and we consumed a shit ton of energy drinks in that 2005-2010 period. When I think of Monster now I think of the image you mentioned, but my earliest associations with monster were at the X games sponsoring Pierre-Luc Gagnon, the French Vert Skateboarder. It also took a while for that red state metal/metalcore to really diverge in terms of fanbases and tours and things. In 2008, Five Finger Death Punch was playing festivals where fans of other bands would dress like the person in that video.
There’s a big thing in Christianity even outside of alternative culture about cherry picking certain things to fit their progressive ideals. There are many Christian scholars who push those things that are more progressive readings and trying to justify it. It’s been growing over the last 10 years or so, and it’s only getting more pronounced.
Maybe it's because I'm old but I don't understand TikTok. From what I have seen, it's mainly kids performing stupid skits, lip syncing poorly, using the same three or four songs in the background, having the female robot voice describe what's going on, etc. Do I have it right?
There all cringe af
Hey Finn I’d love to see you do a “how underoath” changed music! Big fan for long time
no monster was popular in 2005 when i was in highschool with the scene/emo kids.
Just re-discovered them with Radical from one of your end of year videos and I've listened to that album once a day this month. You hate to see it end like this.
Great video and what the heck is up with these kids and Monster? 😂😂😂
I think that the scene revival of monster is because they sponsored warped tour for like a decade.
Here's a side note on Monster as well. On the motocross side of things, their still one of the biggest sponsors of the sport since the supercross (stadium motocross) series is named after them. They also bankroll the Factory Kawasaki team.
Us Emos drank Rockstar. Hense Rockstar energy mayhem fest js
i love it when old heads talk abt the history to these terms we use all the time. like the other day (literally 4 years ago) i found out the peace sign used to mean Victory-V in America
13:21 It is currently 12 years to the day from when that article published
In 2008 I was a jr in high school and I saw girls go all out every day with the scene look, especially at shows.
i saw a video of marshall mcluhan once where he said that youth fashion is always nostalgic and functions as a sort of motley (the costume worn by clowns or court jesters). in medieval society the clown's job was to voice the grievances of the society. so youth fashion is like a modern day jester or a manifestation of grievance. idk what my point here was but i figured you'd be interested
Unfortunately I have seen no scene revival kids out in the wild, and I’m mad, where are they at, I wan to join since I never got to have a scene phase
Dude. I love hearing your thoughts on Alt Christians. I am a conservative (theologically, not politically) Christian and like heavy music. I was never "in the scene" in part because I am not progressive and couldn't get down with some of the ideas, rhetoric, beliefs happening there. Anyway, I would love to interact with your thoughts on religion x alt music more. I'm a nobody (i.e., not a good podcast guest) but if you have any appetite or avenue for entertaining questions about how you see faith not working in the scene(s), please hmu.
It was 2009, I saw that lineup at the Roseland in Portland. Wild shit.
I love how Finn being from a different generation understands the younger ones.
Can you suggest some good country? I find that I just can't stand the kinda standard radio poppy stuff with the same thick accent and violin/slide guitar sounds that you always hear when you lookup country. But, when I hear country elements in other music it's great. Like, Brand New had some country elements, and Coalesce album went hard into country elements, and it was awesome. So, somewhere in the middle, there must be something.
10:45 they’ve got one of my favorite Mayday Parade songs playing ❤️
There was a pocket of full on scene queens in ny city around '08-'12 that you would not see in public if they weren't fully done up- I want to say a group of about 20 girls? Probably proportionate to the number of women who regularly dress more broadly in Japanese street fashion here now.
After hearing Dave Hause's country EP covering Dillinger Escape Plan songs last year I've come to be very on board with the y'allternative movement..
Also, some of that girl's boys *are* Jojo Siwa bows.
As a former teenage alt Christian I respect progressive Christians but part of why I'm a non theist now is because I could not reconcile my actual values or my sexuality with the religion.
Yeah I'm straightedge, yeah I smoke crack. We exist! - I'm dead.
I was in highschool at the height of emo culture, and yes monster energy was definitely a thing with us haha not just dirtbike dudes
I’m goth, I’m a Christian and the best way I can explain how God let’s me do both is that I don’t tell others what to do but I don’t do what they do ( abortion, gay marriage etc)
Always appreciate the content and appreciate your commentary on Christianity. You are dead-on with the cherry-picking and mental gymnastics. But what is also true is that understanding the Bible is not a super simple thing and making grandiose, sweeping statements about theology and its compatibility in modern (or even alternative culture) misses the mark. In my opinion you are more or less right on the morality element and off on the application and understanding of it. Regardless, thanks again for the content!
Thank you for introducing me to yallternative
I associate Monster with the festival in the late 2000's. That was like Black Dahlia and Cannibal Corpse people.
First monster I had was at Warped Tour in 2005 they were giving them away for free. Literally all the emo and scene kids drank monsters at least on the west coast so at least on the west coast that was 100% part of the scene.
Everyone is talking about how monster energy is a part of the modern scene, but I have to disagree.
Although I never went as far as dying my hair and shopping at Hot-Topic (my parents wouldn’t let me lol) I was into the music and loved the aesthetic when I was in middle school - 2009, 2010, and 2011. During that time, It was super cool to drink monster and then take the tabs off of the can and collect them on a string and wear it as a necklace - some people made bracelets instead.
However that was towards the tail end of the scene, as everyone knows the peak was more around 2007-2008. What I think is happening is that the kids like me who were getting into the scene at the at the end are now the ones who are in their 20’s bringing back their childhood.
So long story short I 100% remember Monster being a big part of the scene but just towards the end. I think the OG’s just don’t know that what’s happening with monster now isn’t new, it’s just a continuation.
Red Bull was what we powered down before hardcore/post-hardcore/scene shows. I think that's all SOMA had back in the day, actually, for energy drink
I heard some good yallternative “all the country kids with the pumped up kicks” at the western Idaho fair the other day haha. Then they did pixies where is my mind country style and I was eating me sum cinnamon pecans just vibing
First show I ever went to back in 08 was brokencyde, eyes set to kill, and drop dead, gorgeous at boney june's in Evansville
The narrator who’s name you were trying to remember is the legendary Sir David Attenborough.
Isn't the hot topic poster child who's also a metal gatekeeper a tad ironic? She looks like she was only born around the time nu metal was massive so it's just hard to imagine that particular generation trying to gatekeep I guess. It's like me trying to tell my dad what real 60s music is haha. The guy lived it and I just heard about it lol
I started high school in 2009 and I can confirm that the scene kids were into monster just as much as the blue collar alternative crowd
In the early 2000's Monster was primarily sponsoring extreme sports and motorsports, hence why it was considered quite a "bro" beverage. Lots of the skateboarders, bmxers and motocrossers were obviously quite alternative, so it then quickly became an "alternative" beverage.
This is coming from an ex-christian. There is middle ground between being pro-gay and anti-gay. That is where true Christianity lives. Yes, the old testament says to stone gays, but the new testament says 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'. Christianity posits that you should live and let live even if others are doing moral wrongs. It accomplishes this through the idea that there is a all good, all knowing and all powerful god that will judge the world and carry out just punishment.
The reason I lost faith, and I think this is the case for most people that loose faith, is the paradox that arises with all good, all knowing and all powerful paradox when you look and children with cancer or straving.
Finn, have you heard Dirt Emo Vol. 1 by Ruston Kelly? Country covers of classic emo songs.
I love Alex Melton. His covers in multiple genres are great.
Alex Melton (the country cover guy) is awesome! He does some amazing pop punk redos of other songs too.
I forgot what this guy's name was, but he did rockabilly covers of pop punk songs. I wish I could remember his channel name.
I feel like Monster was always part of alt culture through skateboarding. I remember Monster being a Warped Tour sponsor and seeing a Monster ad with oi punk band The Briggs.
Thanks for sharing my content! Love your videos 🖤🤘🏽 #emotrapchristcore
Thank you!
Complains about gate keeping, proceeds to gate keep for 24 minutes
As JLP says, “but that didn’t happen”
Yallternstive made me chuckle, I like at least a few songs from each genre but country is one that's a little on the border of not at all like there's a few country songs I think are kind of funny like that one song or the dudes like I've been watching you dad ain't that cool, I made my own little remix of that song, I have this coworker named Chad who is like always getting into trouble for a little stupid stuff and he was upset because he felt like everybody was always on his case so I'd be like I've been watching you chad ain't that cool 😂 I also think the country fans are generally a little rude and kind of annoyingly macho acting they're the type to say something about somebody wearing skinny jeans I forget what the most common saying is something about their nuts fitting in their pants or something I've heard it a ton of times here in the West, they kind of just generally give off overall elitist behavior from my experience and I am by no means an alternative looking person I've just witnessed it happen to other people, kind of a cringe Chad crowd
always drank Joker back in high school...idk what happened to them
Okay the Djentalman TikTok made me laugh
Thank you :) at least someone got it
@@zackzaruba_ You're welcome my dude haha
Legend has it you get stock in Monster energy when you buy a Subaru