Stormlight 5 Prologue Reactions! | Shardcast
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- The wait is over, the Secret Project episodes have been slain and the Stormlight Archive 5 prologue episode is finally here! (Your resident editing Feather appreciates the patience for the slight delay.) Though deep down we all know the REAL wait is going to be for this book's release because this prologue is SPICY.
Spoilers for all published Cosmere works (but no secret project spoilers)!
This episode's cast is Eric (Chaos), Ian (Weiry), David (Windrunner), Shannon (Grey), Evgeni (Argent), and Jess (LadyLameness).
Read the Stormlight 5 prologue here: www.brandonsanderson.com/prol...
Thumbnail image is Rider of Storms by Connor Chamberlain: / by2vgacnpag
Check out the first episode of our new reread series, SpanReads: • The Final Empire: Reca...
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--------
0:00:00 - Intro
0:07:05 - Initial Reactions
0:14:15 - Gavilar
0:24:18 - The Stormfather
1:03:43 - A Herald’s Death: Chana Davar?
1:16:21 - A Herald’s Death: Someone Else?
1:23:03 - Thaidakar
1:48:08 - Ba Ado Mishram
2:01:11 - Taravangian
2:11:01 - Final Thoughts
2:24:26 - Who’s That Cosmere Character?
2:42:36 - Conclusion
#stormlight #brandonsanderson #shardcast #cosmere 
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This episode is finally here! Here's a poll. Do you think that is the Stormfather or not in the prologue? strawpoll.com/polls/NPgxkB6ron2
I was totally convinced that it's an imposter but you guys made a compelling argument in this episode and now I'm not sure.
Why not put subtitles in Spanish? you lose a very large community
I was definitely thrown by the different tone than we are used to hearing from the Stormfather in the prologue, but I’m with you guys, I definitely think it’s still him. He’s just kind of course corrected from the whole experience with King Buttface and is using a different approach with Dalinar. So pumped to have this episode! You all give great perspectives!
@@modesmolano4295 Sorry, I missed this earlier. We don't even have the bandwidth to transcribe and put correct English subtitles, which alone would be a huge amount of resources for our long videos. We use the RUclips autogenerated ones which only generate in English. Transcribing and translating into other languages is even harder, as I'm sure you can imagine. The Spanish fans and cosmere.es are fantastic, of course! But it's really quite infeasible. -Eric
Idk, the theories that it's Ishar are still really compelling, hacking the connection, I'm one of the ten fools, etc
But he seems way too lucid haha, Ishar was looney toons
Tanavasts cognitive shadow, maybe
Or just Stormfathers personality being different when he bonds dalinar, having decided to be a lot more cagey and stern the second time around
I found it very funny and ironic that all the readers in-joke that Dalinar and Jasnah thought Gavilar could read because of Szeth's writing turned out to be true and Gavilar actually could read.
I still kinda want Gavilar to see what Dalinar's become. I think he'd be hella jelly.
I think the fact that the Navanni argument and the meeting with Eshonai not being included are further evidence of how much Gavilar sucks. It's his narrative of the night and they are simply not important to the story he's telling himself. Little did he know...
That's a very good way of looking at it. -Eric
The Chana Davar thoery also finally excplains why her mother wanted to kill her, presumably she was also buying into Ishar's whole kill budding Radiants idea. Also, from a writerly perspective, bringing up Chana's red hair in the very chapter a Herald dies seems like the final nail in the coffin for me (just based on Brando's lecture series and how he does foreshadowing etc). It's a completely random and irrelevant tangent otherwise (or a serious red hairring ;).
Upvoted purely for the pun
At 37:30 you guys compare Vin and Dalinar, and I have a thing I don’t know if anyone has ever pointed out. Investiture behaves similarly around both of them. In HoA, the mists are “reaching” for Vin like fingers or hands, and in Oathbringer the Lightweaving maps are swirling around Dalinar and Navani notices them behaving oddly, “reaching” toward him “like the hands of petitioners.” It’s a little thing, but so similar it seems intentional. The thing I know for sure about Vin is that she was chosen by a Shard to be a Shard, and I think that’s why it happens to Dalinar too.
Does anything similar ever happen to taravangian? I know Brandon decided later on that one but it may be in RoW
@@ShaunshankRedemption Not as far as I know, but the difference there would be that he wasn’t chosen, he sort of stole the Shard. We’re told in HoA that Preservation chose Vin since she was born to one day take the power. And then Honor/Tanavast set the Stormfather to chose someone to receive the visions, to prepare them for _something_ , and he’s chosen Dalinar.
@@saraholivares4747 but that doesn't really make sense, Vin was a catalyst but she wasn't the hero
@@ShaunshankRedemption it does make sense , preservation supposedly planned everything and chose vin to become a catalyst as you put it
@@aravpradosh1244 This, exactly. If you read the chapter epigraphs in Hero of Ages, written by Sazed, he explains that Vin was chosen at birth by Preservation for a long-term plan that involved her at least ascending.
BUT we finally understand why Sadeas liked Gavilar so much
Oh gosh. That is so awful and true. They both sucked horribly.
@@woofergranade2044 ehh, sadeas is still worse. He may be a manipulative asshole but Gavilar at least internally knows he's being awful to Navani, that small glimpse of empathy is more than we ever see from sadeas. But the way he treats her and Dalinar pissed me off so much haha..not to mention Jasnah
I just still love that in RoW we assumed he knew they were heralds, was totally savvy and involved in all the big plots with Kelsier..but here we realize he was in WAY over his head, his only real accomplishment was the void light
Still..Kelsier as a Seon in a trenchcoat made me so happy, reminded me of tricking the ire in secret history haha, so classic
@@KaladinVegapunk By all indication, Sadeas was a pretty great husband 🤣 Unlike Gavilar
@@adoniscreed4031 that's a really fair point bud! Hahah they did seem to get along thick as thieves and worked together, point to sadeas there. Hard to say, sadeas was happy to torch the rift, gavilar apparently was fine with triggering a desolation just to be immortal, which i would say is a dick move
The missing piece here though is if Stormfaker really is Ishar hacking his connection, or the real Stormfather
In regards to Shallan somehow not recognizing her mother's portrait (assuming she is a herald) shallan has been repeatedly shown to avoid, disassociate, and repress things about her past even when it's in her face like with her shardblade and spren(s?). I don't think it's unreasonable that she would avoid making the connection of the portrait or avoiding seeing them at all. Maybe this should have been shown in the text but I do not find it inconsistent with Shallan's character.
I like this theory and if you interpret the bright, blinding light of her "mother's soul" as her avoiding this.
On my current reread I'm noticing every small little disassociation she has and it totally works.
I agree.
When Hoid meets Shallan in a flashback (towards the end of chapter 45 Middlefest) he's taken aback and drops his cup and has to compose himself. So maybe he sees Chana in her? Just a theory.
I like it! Though could also be that he's shocked spren bonds are (kind of) back. -Eric
@@17thShard that's definitely true. I was in the middle of a reread and so it stood out more after the SA5 prologue.
That is literally the first thing that came to my mind when I heard the prologue. It really bothered me that he was shocked but his later interactions don’t satisfy my understanding of why he is so shocked!
Io00u0Io9iöOoi77😊😊😊I😊i⁸öo😊😊8o8⁸ö😊😊😊o8😊888o😊ö😊öö😊😊😊⁷😅😅66o😊7😊😊78😊7😊also @@pretty5793
If the Chana Davar theory ends up not being confirmed, that will be the biggest red *Hair*ing......
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh
There's no way it's not confirmed hahah... We know Taln never broke, and we know that basically all the Heralds were there, in a library or in karbranth
Aaand Shallan killed her mom in the same month as the assassination
At this point if it ISNT her it would be actively misleading the readers haha and that's not sandos style
It is so weird that I have read all of these books and have absolutely zero clue about where this theory even came from... I've seen absolutely 0 hints about this in the story 🤣
@@adoniscreed4031From what I can gather, Chana the Herald is distinctly stated in the book 5 prologue to have red hair(it’s a random comment that Gavilar makes for no reason other than the reader really), and Shallan also has red hair. Also Shallan killed her mother in the same year as the feast(1167) and in the book 5 prologue the stormfather says that he just felt a herald die. We also know that Taln is confirmed to have never succumbed to the torture so the theory is that after Chana died to Shallan, she got sent back to Braize and fell to the torture causing the Desolation. Hope this makes sense!
Hahaha! Shallan would be proud of this pun.
On Shallan having or not having seen the Herald portraits which would reveal Chanah as her mother: I think Shallan already knows deep down that her mother is Chanah and is actively repressing it. Shallan would be entirely capable of looking straight at that portrait and pulling the old "doesn't look like anything to me."
FINALLY!!!!!! I hadn't been listening since ROW follow-ups, but I think I've filled in all of the gaps since then, just waiting on this one since the prologue release. Preemptive like.
Oh, and we still have way more RoW topics to do. We were going to record them in March, but then, uh, yeah. -Eric
Dude! Me too! I tried to bribe them on Patreon to release it sooner lol.
Preemptive thank you Shardcast!
Regarding Dalinar nearly 'killing' the Stormfather, I think it's because he was close to breaking an oath. When he properly bonded the Stormfather, he was told "I WILL NOT BE A SIMPLE SWORD TO YOU. I WILL NOT COME AS YOU CALL, [...] YOU WILL BE A RADIANT WITH NO SHARDS". By accepting those terms, I believe Dalinar was then bound by oath to never summon the Stormfather as a Blade, and trying to do so risked violating his Radiant oaths.
I personally think he made something like an honourblade
Shallans last Truth will be admitting she caused the desolation
Okay, so Eric might not like this, but what if it's not Ba Ado Mishram that Thaidakar wants, but the gem that she is contained in? A gem of such size and perfection that it can hold a heavily invested cognitive entity. I see two possible reasons for this:
Selfish Reason - to safely move himself off of Scadrial
Altruistic Reason - to trap whatever entity is invading Scadrial (that Harmony reveals in Bands of Mourning)
Okay see that sounds pretty cool to me, honestly. -Eric
I totally love this theory!
I think Gavilar just massively misunderstood the visions (and the Stormfather) and believed he was to become a Herald. Plus he doesn't seem to know much about the Radiants to figure out what is going on. He doesn't know what happened to the heralds, and the Stormfather just played along to see where this went. With Dalinar it didn't matter cause the desolation was already here and he might as well give him the truth.
Entirely possible. My issue is that sometimes in the prologue this really just doesnt feel like the stormfather. Other times he/it totally does, which confuses me a bit
I love that Eric calls Thaidakar "Freakin' Thaidakar" multiple times. I feel like Kelsier would really appreciate that.
GOSH you make like 130 bucks off of patreon a month, you can't afford to make your HUGE rotating cast of stars full time jobs out of shardcast? Love you guys, glad to see you back Jess!!
Hah! Thanks for the kind words! Really though, our Patreon is doing really well for our subscriber count. -Eric
@@17thShard glad to hear it man, been a patron for a minute!
To back up Evgeni, I crawled out of a 2nd story window when I was a baby, and I had no injuries.
Likewise, my little brother crawled off a balcony and emerged unscathed.
kids are bouncy
With the way Mishram is described as being 'The one who could rival him' I feel like the Heralds were maybe encouraging/ helping her take over from Odium or try to depose him even, then when things went sideways they betrayed her by instructing the radiants on how to capture her. Great episode, love hearing all your thoughts as always!
I feel like everything is going to fall apart in the 5th book; Dalinar fails but becomes super important as a background character in the second half of the series. Jasnah basically becomes the new Dalinar 6-10
To Kate's point about the storm father feeling like multiple personalities mismatched and something Ian(I think, maybe windrunner) said, a lot of the 'inconsistencies' can be explained well by the storm father harboring Tanavast's cognitive shadow.
I think that there is, or was, a Fuzz-esque Tanavast hiding within the storm father. Before he was more at the forefront. Now he's hiding, I think specifically hiding how aware he is from Odium. He was able to hide and be at the front while Odium was exiled to Braize, but not when when Odium is allowed on Roshar. That's why he was sooo bothered by a Herald dying. It meant that he would need to go into hiding once the new herald broke, and like he said 'I'm not ready'
One thing with Honorspren I think they can lie too. The leader of them, Sekeir said that Kalak was recused from high judge because he'd suffered one of his fits or something untrue. So I don't think they'd do it often, but I think they can and would lie in the right circumstances.
I agree, sometimes the honorable thing to do is to lie. It's more likely that highspren are the most opposed to lies.
@@solitaryrecluse7740 It is literally never honorable to lie. The reason that the honor spren are able to lie is because they define what they mean by honor.
@@christopherneedham9584 I don't know... that sounds like the kind of sentence that leads to master's thesis in sociology. Call me a moral relativist, but I don't like the use of the word "never" in any judgement. Still going to upvote you though since you made me think for a while. 🤔
I actually think that was a form of self-deception, something like "Oh If Kalak doesn't agree with me, he must be delusional again!"
@@ilregiallo4151 Idk that seems a bit generous to the honorspren. They also took Adolin agreeing to let them try to prove that he was personally responsible for the Recreance, and they in turn ignored that and put him on trial for all the crimes of humanity.
Spoilers ahead, beware:
The stormfather lying really recontextualizes all of those moments of "well you just never asked" like man what does he want with good old dally-d
Ian's reactions to both Evgeni's fall from grace and babies comments are amazing.
This couldn't have come at a more opportune time! I just watched your video about 10 crazy things in RoW and was craving more Stormlight content from 17th Shard
The way “Stormfather” appears to Gavelar reminds me an awful lot of Preservation appearing to Vin.
When did Preservation appear to Vin? Or do you mean Ruin?
Wooo as a Secret Project spoiler-free enjoyer I can return to this channel!
Been waiting for this one. I know I’m about to be told things I never thought of for 3 hours. Love it
This was really worth the wait! I'm glad yall did this one as a longer episode, we needed that time to discuss.
Don't want it to go to his head but Evgeni is hilarious. "Ian stop derailing the episode" lol
I've been waiting for this since the day I read the prologue!!!
Regarding Fused Gavilar: I have always thought that the Soulcast kings & Knights Radiant who'd been Soulcast so that they could be reanimated to fight to take back the Tranquiline Halls was legit foreshadowing. I believe we will see that happen. Does that mean that Gavilar will be reanimated early as Odium's Champion? Probably not.
Woohoo! I've been so excited to hear your thoughts on this one, I'm watching it straight away and might comment more thoughts later. By the way, thanks for all the amazing discussions as Brandon has deluged us with fantastic stuff :P PS No idea what to make of the Stormfather, maybe this episode will sway me one way or another?
We talk about the Stormfather extensively here! -Eric
Update: I think the Stormfather is the real Stormfather, I was leaning that way and your arguments convinced. I'm totally sold on Chana Davar though, I'd be surprised if that wasn't true!
Gotta love being within walking distance of crazy town for the next 18 or so months! Even this very rough draft is a renaissance merchant's worth of spice
I'm surprised how everyone strongly believes that that was the real Stormfather. While reading it, and after, I was constantly vacillating between thinking it was and not. Currently I'm more in the camp that it isn't.
I did a reread after the prologue came out... and the relationship the Stormfather have build with Dalinar, and other people like Syl and Kaladin, doesn't match with the "Stormfather" in the prologue. And there's tons times where the Stormfather would have lied and actively deceived Dalinar.
We have seen the Stormfather become more aware of himself, humans, emotions as the bond progresses. Like we've seen with Syl and Pattern. But the "Stormfather" of the prologue even without a bond is fully aware... has plans... a personality. It would feel like a betrayal for the character who have been build so far... specially with his send out for Eshonai on RoW.
I think most people probably just think that a fake storm father would be a silly, impractical, pointless plot line
@@coydepratt9877 Why silly and impractical? I think it could be Ishar trying to transfer his bond of Herald to another person.
Speaking of silly and impractical, this is the same prologue that has Kelsier talking to Gavilar in a Seon on a Trench-coat. That is top silliness.
But why Gavilar being wrong about the identity of the person he thought was the Stormfather "silly, impractical and pointless". Is he also being wrong about the identities of Nale and Kalak "silly, impractical and pointless"
100% agree with you here.
If that was the actual stormfather, we have to throw out everything we know about Spren.
Spren cannot change their minds without the Nahel bond. Spren cannot go against their natures. To suggest that the stormfather, a LITERAL SPREN OF OATHS, is capable of lying is silly.
In the way of kings, the Stormfather is believed by the Vorin church to be one of the Heralds, Ishar or Kalek, ascended. The same person. We later learn that they aren't, but that sort of thing is exactly the type of joke Brandon likes to sneak in, to have a Herald disguise themselves as the Stormfather.
I was waiting for this soo much since the preview dropped. There are soo many questions I need shardcast to answer/debate........
24:20 I think the stormfather AND Tanavast were acting together since tanavast shouldn`t have died until the oath pact was broken, and it only brakes when one of the heralds "breaks" with out the ten of them being in Braize, I think... thats why when a herald dies, Tanavast freaks out saying "A Herald… A Herald has died… No. I am not ready… The Oathpact… No. They mustn’t see. They mustn’t know…", and even if he died before, like the preservation shard did, he could be hanging around after death
That's a rrrrrrreally good theory, and not just because I happen to agree 👍
Finally. I think you guys are great, been going hard on all your videos since I read Mistborn in December. I cannot believe I’ve been sleeping on Brandon Sanderson for so long. Love your content!
Thanks for the kind words! And yeah it took a while to get to this one because of the secret projects. But hopefully it's a good one. -Eric
Right? How far have you gotten into the other series... Have you gotten to Stormlight Archive yet?
@@hubrisnxs2013 I have finished Era 1, Era 2, and all of Stormlight. I’m obsessed. I haven’t read Elantris or White Sand. I’ve been watching The 17th Shard stuff after each book, they definitely have the most in-depth and interesting content. I’ve really enjoyed the journey. I’m on a Stormlight re-read now.
@@atticuswench1561 I totally agree. I had the same reading order, and so, yeah, it's obviously the best one!
Also, reading 3500ish pages since December? For the general public, that'd be insane, but to the average Sanderson fan, it's kinda the bare minimum. By the by, going into the back catalog for 17th Shard 3+ years has been more than worth it for me. What's your favorite episode so far?
@@hubrisnxs2013 oh, goodness, it is so hard to say which episodes are my favorite. I enjoy the character breakdown episodes, all the RoW reactions and of course any theorizing. The WoB episodes. The death rattle eps. Just really love this channel over-all. It is so nice to hear other people nerding out. I don't have anyone that enjoys reading what I read to discuss this stuff with so I am really grateful I found this channel.
11:46 Oh goodness! Windrunner with the dope joke nobody got! He's already a Herald? Nobody?
My Crack theory: BAM is the spren of Roshar. She can originally pump out lifelight like stormfather does stormlight. Odium unmakes her and when she pushes out her investiture it's voidlight which changes the singers. I think she was the first unmade.
So who’s POV is the Dai Gonarthis death rattle from? That seems like it would be a big moment if it’s potentially going to be happening on screen.
“Let me no longer hurt! Let me no longer weep! Dai-gonarthis! The Black Fisher holds my sorrow and consumes it!”
Could be Moash?
Woah, I like it
Hi, new viewer here, I've been going through old podcast episodes after recently getting into the Cosmere and noticed something extremely concerning. I feel like we don't get enough time for Argent's show & tell and would like to request that he get his own segment.
👀
@@_argent keep fighting the good fight brother, ✊
Hey I am just trying to have a good balance of nonsense without padding these episodes too much! -Eric
Regarding the Stormfather not becoming a blade to Dalinar, I got the impression from their conversation in Words of Radiance that this was an extra oath that Dalinar was taking on for the Stormfather's comfort because of his reluctance to enter a bond in the first place. I get the impression that historically the Stormfather and Nightwatcher could and did manifest as blades, but the Sibling's Bondsmith was probably always restricted to plate alone for obvious reasons. This is a roundabout way of me saying that I think Dalinar's oath never to summon the Stormfather is unique to him and is not an Ideal in and of itself but is no less an ironclad part of his Nahel bond with the Stormfather which is why violating it could make the Stormfather into a deadeye.
Jesus.... I get on a couple other series for a year and just realize today that this was released and you guys reviewed it.... AHHH...
100% agree with Jess on the Stormfather. I think Brandon wrote this line in to cover himself “I will never trust your family again”.
That says to me that Brandon is using that line to have the Stormfather know things he has to know, but not reveal them to Dalinar. Like with how he knew about the Oathpact or multiple other times. He doesn’t answer anything unless asked directly.
Combine that with First Draft Brandon. And I think that’s all it is.
the vission of shanon is awesome, thx for all the work u do !
My two possibly crazy theories:
1) I find it interesting that at the end of Oathbringer, Jezrien is intially unconcerned that he is about to die. You would think that if dying was going to send him back to Braize he would be more concerned about it. You could say that he wasn't thinking about it, but perhaps what is happening is that his disconnection from the Oathpact prevents him from returning to Braize.
In addition, all the heralds are involved in dangerous activities, there is an extremely low chance that they could have all survived for 4000 years (especially with Odium wanting them to return to Braize). It seems logical then that if Chanarach is Shallan's mother, then a Herald can only be sent back if killed by a Shardblade or Radiant Blade. Which would explain why Nale and Ishar are so determined to stop Radiant orders from arriving, any Radiant Blades risk a new desolation.
2) From memory, highly-invested entities with strong connections to a particular shard cannot move far away from that shard's influence. It's possible that Kelsier wants Ba-Ado-Mishram to connect all the Ghostbloods to herself, so they can go wherever she goes, granting them freedom.
I really like the Ghostbloods theory. I wonder if she’d even be able to leave Roshar, though, being so much of Odium?
Killing their physical body probably just shunts them to the cognitive realm, short trip to the peaks and they're back. Their connection to the physical realm is through the pact, so they can go right through.
Ill be honest, I was more excited about this podcast about the prologue than the prologue itself
On the topic of Preservation and Vinn, On rereads of Secret History, I think he pretty much established that back when he was "whole", Preservation saw the best way to "Win" was to tie. So he set his pieces up very subtly against Ruin's, so after he lost his mind, Preservation's natural movements pushed Vinn into place using Ruin's own moves against him resulting in the death of both of them.
When i think Of Mishram conecting to the entire planet of singers that could sing to the rythem of voidlight/anti investirue in unision
I forget exactly the details i just remember what was going on with Venli when she like connects to the stone and she experiences shaping the form or something through rythem?
I think that in the moment when Dalenar forced Storm Father to open the gate he almost forged a new Oath Blade. A sliver given physical form maybe.
I think a possible dead herald candidate that is overlooked is shallan's mother's friend who is also killed that night
1:52:40 i am increasing sure that Ba-Ado-Mishram either was a bondsmith spren that was unmade or at the very least bondsmith type powers, and when everything with Ba-Ado-Mishram happened, the radiants saw how a bondsmith unchained (or surges in general) no longer being bound by honor, it made them realized how dangerous these powers can be, plus given Ashyn was destroyed (Ishar being minupulated by Odium into experimenting with surges). they decided both to imprison Ba-Ado-Mishram and to give up their oaths.
Waking up to this is a huge treat!!!
I wasnt sure it was Stormfather in the beginning, considering the diffeences in appearance and personality. Could he be considered quite new in terms of courting Gavilar and using interactive sentience?
As in, he might be even more unformed than with Dalinar and so would take on aspects of them? Takes on traits of the possible bonder, as an instinctual template of consciousness while he slowly forms his own. Hence the difference in personality with the brothers, as he slowly claims his own individualty as the books go on and shifts away from his dalinar-like sense of honor, control, determined frustration etc.
Edit:. ...Aaand i just heard Jess' thoughts on the Stormfathers difference... To quote South Park, "this is making insanely good sense".
What a pleasant surprise on this beautiful Saturday. Freaking Thaidakar makes an appearance after how many years of waiting?! XD
Finally!!! Thank you guys for doing this!
On the prologue, I find Gavilar's character just great. He's such a jerk and you can see it through and through. The part where he says he would just give up to keep fighting is one of the best lines on this entire series for me, what an a$$h0le.
Regarding Gav as a Herald: The words he's looking for are KR words, I believe, because it seems that the correct path to replacing Ishar would be to first become a KR Bondsmith and then reform and rewrite the oathpact. There are words for the oathpact: oaths that need to be spoken, hence the name oathpact. But I don't think a regular human can just create a new oathpact. They need to have powers first, investiture first, and so that's why Gav needs to become a KR Bondsmith first.
Even before I read this prologue today, really since OB and the Battle of Thaylen Field, I had been thinking that Dalinar's nine but seems like there should be ten (ten with Venli) would be the new oathpact. These 10 match the books, too, if you count RoW as being both Eshonai/Venli. So the books are each themed around a new herald. The only issue is that we have 0 Dustbringers and 2 Lightweavers: Ash and Shallan. Not sure how that will play out. (Oh, the Chanarach Davar theory! I'd never heard such. I hate it, and yet, that would explain why Shallan might become the new Dustbringer Herald...)
I also thought blue head as the same color of a kolos. Maybe he is using a body of one of those for the projection or something along those lines.
I know maybe is not the theme of the prologue but, i really want to talk about how taravangian and dalinar will conquer all the Cosmere. Taravangian win the duel of champions, Dalinar become his commander, and the two can talk in the fire about what planet will destroy next. Dalinar embrace the odium :O
1:15:00 LMAO. I really hope that is word for word what happens. That would be hilarious.
I think it is the stormfather. Remember that he showed the visions but at first he was very against any new radiants or aligning himself with anyone. I think that isn't just a response to the recreance but also to Gavilar.
I’ve been waiting for this one haha 😵💫 can’t wait to listen
I totally had no idea that Shallan’s mom being a herald was a thing, but I think it makes some sense of why she wanted to kill Shallan. I think ishar condoned the skybreaker’s radiant killing so maybe another herald agreed? idk… huh…
Along the point of Shallan's mother she wanted to kill Shallan because she was becoming "one of those" most likely meaning a radiant which her and the other heralds didn't want to return.
10/10 - great cast!
The biggest question is whether this will be the last time we seem this flashback, and if the back half will have a different scene used
Could Cultivation be who is pushing the Storm Father towards the Kholin family?
Hyped for this shardcast.
14:30 Whence did Aesudan get an Unmade? That is the big unknown.
21:30 Would you really want your spren to talk about you to the next symbiont? Because that is what such a conversation would imply.
45:30 Did the Stormfather want to reestablish the Knights Radiant at that time? Replacing the heralds is a rational option at that time. Who sets the goal?
57:30 The Everstorm has fundamentally changed the situation.
1:42:00 Does Thaidakar know about antiilight?
1:44:00 Aesudan seems to be playing Navani to be underestimated. For all her brilliance Navani is a snob.
1:47:00 Antilight is also an anti-Kelsier weapon.
1:50:00 But there is something in the archive. Urithiru had begun failing.
2:15:00 The problem there is that Honor would also be bound by "ownership" of information. If you learned something under the even informal understanding that you not tell, he would need to heed that.
Great list of questions. Before responding with my own, what do you have as tentative theories on the answers?
@@hubrisnxs2013 1. This prologue is not the full truth about Gavilar. Aesudan and Gavilar cooperated.
2. Urithiru's troubles were a symptom. That was the reason they could not just release Ba-Ado-Mishram.
Finally got around to watching this! I think that is the Stormfather in the prologue.
Could Cultivation have asked the Stormfather to show the visions to Dalinar? Tanavast knew that Cultivation was good at seeing the future, so its plausible that the Stormfather knew that as well. Its also likely that they had some sort of long standing relationship. I think Cultivation could have convinced the Stormfather to show Dalinar the visions after his visit to the Nightwatcher, since he had stopped drinking and started following the Codes.
Weird thing I just thought of: Travangian recieved his mother's death rattle from his own point of view, which meant the death rattles have a targeted audience who may or should have had a connection/Connection to the intended audience. Imagine who these people could've been if their lives hadn't been changed by Taravangian's actions.
You mention Ba Ado Mishram being a princess of the voidbringers when talking about the singers, but humans are the real voidbringers. Perhaps she was a princess of the humans. That would fit the timeline better.
So that is an interesting idea for sure! What highprincess of the Voidbringers means is very much an open question, so this is possible. I am not sure how much stock we should take of Hessi's legends. Hessi clearly doesn't know the full story, and certainly for thousands of years they would assume the singers are the Voidbringers. (Though realistically I don't even think Hessi knows the singer = Voidbringer association. Depends when Mythica was published, but I assumed it was pre-WoK?) It is definitely possible though.
I tend to prefer the idea that BAM is some very important spren of Roshar, and given the human invaders aspect, I don't know how well that fits together. That said, we really have no idea how much the human Voidbringer stuff works, and so that's all probably much more prominent than we think. -Eric
Is there anything fundamentally different between the unique spren (the stormfather, sibling, and nightwatcher) and the un-made? Is it possible for more Bondsmith, if they bond with the un-made? Something like what Renarin has going on?
A thought that just hit me, Only a thought. With Mistborn Era 2 being timelined after Books 1-5 of SLA, what if Trell is Kelsier pulling a Ba-Ado-Mishram?
Did anyone figure out what the continuity error that brandon was referring to was?
In book four prologue he says Navani's study is on the second floor of the Palace but in book 5 it is said that it's on the third floor of the palace
The thing with the storm father is that he's always all about not changing and so resistant to it. So the idea that he would change is very peculiar
do you think the storm father had talked with taravangian or given him visions?
I go back and forth if I think it is the Stormfather or not. I have been leaning towards it not being him, but you had good arguments for why it is. Still not totally convinced, he is acting so different. But it could just be he learned from his interactions with Gavilar not to trust and do things differently and circumstances changed with the Herald dying and Everstorm coming
When the WTCC hints and answer make everyone so happy and Ian go "I hate you" you know it's brilliant :D
The stormfather is encouraging oaths opposite of the radiant oaths. He says he's not even close when he says "it is not the destination that matters, but how one arrives there." And he says gavinar is close at "Give it to me. Now." I think the "stormfather" was making an antiRadiant.
He's not trying to get a radiant oath out of Gav, he's trying to get Gav to agree to take his share of the Oathpact.
I feel like there have been some new hints from Brandon since. There's this WoB, answering a question about Shallan's drawing people as better versions of themselves:
"As will all sort of future sight/foretelling in the cosmere, it is not necessarily telling the future so much as seeing possibilities. And Shallan has… we’ll get into this in Book Five. Shallan’s a little extra good at this, for Spiritual mumbo jumbo. (It’s not necessarily just Spiritual mumbo jumbo, 17th Shard.) In this case, we have a very distinct reason why this is happening with Shallan that you might be able to put together. It’s pretty obvious. But you should be able to see these things with Shallan very early in the books. As early as Words of Radiance, I was sticking in little nods to this. She is able to grab glimpses of the Spiritual Realm in ways that even other Lightweavers can’t do. Lightweaving always has a bit of this, right? And this comes back to what’s going on with the Realmatic Theory and Plato’s Theory of the Forms as kind of a foundational text that helped me develop this in my mind. You’re seeing more perfect versions of who you could be. When she’s doing a sketch, she’s sometimes sketching not who you are, but who you could be."
Perhaps Ba Ado Mishram, in her attempt to be a source of forms and power for a (mixed?) group of singers/humans, was unable to handle the sheer amount of numbers requesting access thru her.
Her reaching for the capacity to provide, required her own tone/rhythm, one of a peoples who have abandoned both sides of this war. Perhaps the listeners are some of her followers who fled- abandoning their attempt at independence- for isolation and peace. Fleeing before her imprisonment.
Her own particular fusion tone may be one that eventually became discordant with the pure tones of Roshar but with so many holding to her forms and tone, coupled with her inability to handle so much, created a feedback inteference between the claimed Identity of the 3 toned planet Roshar, itself. Requiring some radiants to imprison and stop her from vibrating the planet apart ha.
Also, i think ba ado mishram was originally Cultivations first daughter who was unmade by odium. Sja Anat is either Odiums rogue bonsmith or even Ba ado's child born to odium.
That's a great theory! Isn't it the case though that Odium, at least, doesn't have access to the Surge of Connection?
The Singers say the 10th surge (Connection) is a false one pushed for by Honor, perhaps also indicating Cultivation doesn't have access to Connection either. Maybe that's why Cultivation and Odium are able to see into the Future?
@@hubrisnxs2013 if i remember correctly, honors true surge was Adhesion.
@@freebird6591 that's the one for bondsmiths right? Then yes, and thanks for the correction. Adhesion then is the false surge the Fused say is a lie
@@hubrisnxs2013 yea and adhesion is for the windrunners as well. Selective memory in play by the singers as they were of Honor long before they left for Odium. Im guessing its easier to lie to themselves concerning honor and his true surge than admit that they left their god for a far more controlling and abusive one.
Cultivation gives the surge of regrowth, honor has adhesion.
Going out on a limb here by saying all other surges were agreed upon/manifested from their physical force in reality to a surge of harnessable investiture via spren.
I think all shards have some form of future sight, thru their connection to the spiritual realm tho some are better than others. Honors was average. Cultivations was good. Odiums is better?
I still think that something is driving all highly invested being insane. It seems to have started with Honor and maybe it effected Mishra.
Amazing editing move cutting Ian's rant off after "But-"
On the topic of Ishar sensing when the Herald died - didn’t Shalash and/or Taln sense when Jezrien is murdered by Vyre or am I misremembering? I love the theory and I am very interested to see how book 5 plays out!!
Yes they sensed it, the stormfather did not
I believe it is the real Stormfather but his personality is kinda affected by Gavilar because he's trying to bond with him and so maybe they're influence each other. Like how Gavilar looked regal and commanding and noble to others
Will the last oath have to be said by the spren?
Very VERY EXCITING
Huh my guess for the second Whose That Cosmere Character(tm) fit all the clues but was still wrong.
I guessed elend venture
Could Gavilar's last words be a death rattle actually predicting and prophesizing something happening in book 5 or era 2?
1:11:44 - and that's when I subscribed to Chana Davar theory. Timeline even has a wiggle room since Chana could've held for a while like I can imagine her holding for like 6 years so that appearance of Taln lines up with the moment he got back to Roshar, but then also who knows how long he wandered before entering the city, so that's additional bit of wiggle room for the timeline there. But then question stands why Lin interested Chana and were she ever interested in him in the first place if the skybreaker neofit associate of hers really was a lover. I can imagine Lin being a very different person at the start and past finding Chana around the time or soon after trouble found Davar family and set Lin on the path he ended up on...
Narrative fits, and there can be a lot to Chana's story there beside "just being there to get killed". Her thoughts and reasons for all those things and personal struggles she faced back then very well might be explored in Stormlight V or back half, however sorry I am to place yet another expectation/excuse on the back half...
But then I do feel like it would be more fun to get more on the heralds, all of them, since the last desolation or since the recreance, to maybe see their perspectives on the recreance and their ways to keep living their lives, what they found fun and relaxing, what was they thinking about during those long centuries, like there's ten immortals right there and every story of an immortal I read or watched so far ended up in some cool themes, if a bit repetitive, although I'd imagine theoretical eternity of the future and many hundreds of years of the past would make anyone's mind race in loops...
Something i only just noticed in the prologue... Gavilar asks Dalinar what his wife would think of him in Navani's room just before the feast. Dalinar hears her name, and that isnt possible after hes been to the nightwatcher, he hears a fuzzy muffled sound when she's mentioned. And also, he thinks about 'what he'd done'. Which means at that point he hadnt yet been to see the nightwatcher. So when did he go? It's not long before the beginning of book one, so did he go straight away? Has this been made clear or mentioned by you all yet?
He went to nightwatcher after Gavilar's death. It's covered in oathbringer.
It’s here!
Oh boy, it's time for spicy spicy!
What if the Stormfather started giving Dalinar the visions because he found out that Odium was using The Thrill on him to become his champion?
Don't worry Evgeni I laughed at your dad leaving and never coming back joke.
Glad *someone* appreciates my dumb humor XD
One of the most interesting things I think we learned from this prologue is that the Stormfather can just lie to Dalinar. In Oathbringer when he is telling them the truth about the Heralds he says "In these millennia none have ever died and returned to damnation" which we know now is completely false. I think the implications of that are massive.
I didn't notice that and, yes, that's another one. The only way that could be true is that if the Herald that died didn't go back to Braize...
Granted I still hate the theory that Chana was killed the night Gavilar died and broke when the Everstorm arrived
Grace definitely thinks a lot of Oathbringer chapter 38 is false. How much though is anyone's guess... -Eric
Just rewatching, BUT no shallan would very well not recognize her mother in those pictures IF she saw them. Because as youve read rythm of war and seen how in denial and hiding her own memories from herself i can very well believe her not recognizing her moms face
i think the stormfather is trying to get an immortal in the duel by making it so that he becomes a herald during the duel.