I watched a video by Jonathan Porterfield about a Renault Zoe he bought at auction. It's got over 100,000 miles on the clock, he had the battery health checked, and the battery is at 89% state of health. It seems these batteries are better than the doom mongers would have us believe...
That's the funny thing about battery chemists and engineers, they just do not give a monkeys about making out of date technology and are thoroughly obsessed with improving it all the time. And you know, getting home to their family and their car not unexpectedly not having enough charge. Some people have a really weird attitude to STEM, imagining that people get into science and engineering to earn vast salaries and profiteer from making unsafe, bad products that could kill them too. I despair of those types. :(
Bjorn Nyland in Norway is also looking at how older EVs are holding up, esp. battery condition. You are both doing a worthwhile job on this, keep it up - it's important that not all content is puff pieces about luxury SUVs at the top of market. This seems to be the current focus of the major OEMs until the ZEV mandates drag them into the middle market.
One of the surprising things about the Zoë is that you can put a wheelchair in the boot and still use the back seats as it will stand upright; I can't think of any other small hatchback where a wheelchair and four can travel.
That was why I had the Zoe on my shortlist for taking my Mum places, who's a wheelchair user. However, on a test drive, I simply couldn't get a comfortable driving position - so I ended up getting a BMW i3. And, yes, albeit taking the back wheels off her chair, it fits in the i3...!! 😲
We've got one as a second car and everything you say fits perfectly with our experience with it. Unfortunately that includes the fall to charge error. Local Renault dealer wanted £4.5k to fix the problem, HEVRA garage charged £1.3k to fix it. The dealer "fix" was the wrong part so would still have not worked after paying for that. Fortunately we'd taken out a warranty, and they paid the full bill. The dealer also buggered up the software, somehow deleting the heater, that'll be another £138 to diagnose, HEVRA garage can't do software updates to fix that problem. Dealer made a mess of reporting problem to warranty company so they refused to pay out, then took 3 days to update and total bill was £338. Car is OK, Renault and their dealers are absolutely abysmal. Will never buy another Renault again.
I have had a ZE40 with Type 2 43kw charging for 18 months and I fell in love. I have 150 Mile range and most Tesco and Lidl have 22kw chargers, so just plan a shoo on the way home on longer journeys. And BP pulse does 43 Kw. I get 4+ Miles/kw in winter, 3.5 when below 0. And 5+ Miles/kw in summer. 2 full size suitcases just fit in the boot and 2 adults and a large bag on the backseat. The main thing is its so much fun to drive and you can beat most idiots away from the lights, which is useful sometimes.
Our ZE40 2018 model, battery owned, we bought last october and haven't looked back. A great little runabout car, with 140 mls range in winter in ECO mode at 85% charge which is good for the very hilly area we live in. One thing about buying the lease out; our car came with the original invoice from Renault, where the previous owner bought the lease out last september- it cost £3304!
I've had both a ZE40 and a ZE50 with CCS. Either are brilliant used cars. Loved driving them. Rapid charging is the only real headache with either, now
We've had a 2022 Zoe as a courtesy car for the last month and a half (and done over 2500 miles), and I must say I really do like it. It's noticeably smaller than our Leaf, but the boot is still a decent size. In fact, I'd say the rear leg room is on par, if not better in the Zoe. The interior quality of the Mk2 Zoe is much, much better, and the 50kW CCS charging is well worth it. In terms of efficiency, over the 2500 miles we've done in it, we've averaged 3.8mi/kWh, about the same as our 2018 Leaf. One advantage the older Zoe has is the 'normal' keyless entry with the button on the door. Our 2022 Zoe has the stupid proximity key that automatically unlocks the car when you get close. The best part is, if you have the key in your pocket and go to the charge port, it locks the car as you're out of range. Also, if you walk away from the car with the key, the car will automatically lock as soon as the doors close. It's frankly dangerous.
Leaf 40kWh is dropping in price now, below the level of a comparable battery-owned Zoe with rapid charging. Zoe is a great option if you do a lot of urban driving and parking though..
@@ysarn absolutely, plus the crappy battery management system. OTOH, if you charge at home and use the car for commuting.. and don't expect more than 100 mile range..
The whole point of the rumble strips at the end of a dual carriageway is to wake you up to how fast you are going: you don't want a car which makes them quieter!
When I started hiring EVs in 2019, I did so with the Zoe ZE50 (GT Line +), and it was great fun and exceedingly practical for two adults - now I'm looking to buy a car again, it seems like the perfect match....but now we have a baby, and I can't quite get over that zero-rating for Euro NCAP. While a lot of that's due to the new emphasis on safety-assist devices, I'm not a huge fan of its crash survivability scores either.
(With that said, I'm quite aware that to get a better crashworthiness score, the simplest option is to design your car to be heavier and make the other person part of your crumple zone - after all, I cycle on the daily so that's just table stakes.)
I guess that another bonus of leasing the battery is that big question about covering the battery whilst you are leasing it. So if a lease into say 20 years and the battery health then dropped, would they replace it??
I have had three zoes, two 22kwh and a 40kwh where i did 50000 miles in 2 years. the main weakness of early ones, heat pump failure, and i had a coil spring snap. Other than that no problems, great battery health and degradation. also buy yhr early batteries out for less than £2k and can pick up for £4k now
My wife has a ZE40. We use it all the time around town. We have free 22Kw charging in town, so a visit to the shops gives us a full charge, for free! In fact I prefer to drive it rather than my I-Pace in town, and economy is sooo good. 14 Kwh/100 Kms. The jag manages 24Kwh/ Kwh.
The efficiency is helped by the super aerodynamics. The council have just resurfaced a major road near me. The lines leading to the speed camera nave been painted on really thickly. My Zoe GT50 rumbles as I go over them.
By ‘eck you’re having good weather in Yorkshire at present 😂 Zoe is surprisingly good for a basic EV and wears really well, it even pans Tesla on its auto-wipers and speed limiter. Agree it’s not got a very dated charging spec. Wife had the Tesla and I had to do a 200 mile round trip in the Zoe ZE40 recently and it was an awful charging experience.
I agree, charging after a long trip (100 miles +) is a pain. I’m currently nr. Cromer area and it’s taken me 3 x 90 minute sessions at Morrisons (max 11kw), over 3 days, to get to 80% in my ZE40 and sufficient range for the trip home. Had some bracing walks though! That said I’ve only needed to do a handful of long trips since 2019 and it’s great for daily trips. I’m at 50k miles of hassle free motoring and getting 149 miles range in winter.
Boot space cracks me up as a metric. I could fill a shopping trolley and fit it all in the boot of my Smart car. Under what circumstances would I go there and get more than one trolleys worth at a time? Sure, there are niche uses cases that some people have. But realistically we only need 2 seats and a small boot in most cars. If you have a family, do you need eight to ten seats cross two cars? I mean, if you do, maybe what you really needed was to visit a clinic and get some free contraceptives. But I guarantee a bunch of people look at a 'small' boot and then recoil in horror because, you know, for the extra £5,000 to get a car with a bigger one, they can enjoy the benefits of harder parking, higher fuel costs and lower range, offset by the massive advantage that once in a while they can fit a slightly larger piece of flatpack furniture in their car. I mean, not something huge and long, but something just a few inches longer. Amazingly useful! And so much better than clicking the button for delivery and ordering it in advance online so it arrives the day before you want to assemble it. I'm so glad I shook of that kind of nonsensical attitude to buying products - if I hadn't, my PC would probably light up like a Christmas tree on acid and have to have a warning attached in case it caused seizures.
A lot of disabled and/or elderly people need large boots for scooters, wheelchairs, walkers etc. that’s a significant proportion of the population (disabled people alone make up over 22% of the population). I agree about quite a lot of adults with children buying ridiculously oversized cars, though. My parents managed with a lot smaller cars, even a Fiat 500 at one point! That does have a lot to do with child car seats though, they take up a lot of room, and probably could be designed to be safer and take up less room, but no money in that!
Warning: The battery lease terms are pretty draconian and all in the favour of Renault. But, if you buy the car with the intention of buying out the lease, it shouldn't matter. The lease did include a really useful and comprehensive breakdown service (not sure if it it still exists)
I bought a Zoe 50 and it was cheaper to buy than the comparable and and mileage Cleo, and is also much cheaper to run. Battery owned is the key - they seem to hold up and therefore why would you rent the battery.
When the Zoe and Nissan Leaf were first launched in the UK, battery lease held 2 advantages: 1. to provide a degree of 'comfort' to potential owners who would have never owned an EV before and may have had misgivings about battery longevity. 2. to bring the retail price down to a more affordable level.
I used to own a Clio and I once sat in a Zoe in the showroom and it was basically a very bloated Clio from the outside and on the inside it was a very cramped Clio. But if you looked at the display, dials, buttons, steering wheel it was very clear they shared a lot of bits. For what it was I suppose it was okay but it aged badly and Renault didn't help by revising the design and degrading safety to the extent it scored a ZERO stars NCAP when it was retested.
@@hothie3As a second car we have owned the SEAT Mii electric from new in 2021 with zero issues. We have also owned 3 Renault Zoes previously. We enjoyed the Zoes but the Mii is our preference and one we’ll be keeping for a long time. IMHO it would suit your proposed usage perfectly.
I posted a couple (nearly 3) years ago that I bought a 65 plate Zoe “I” model (no battery lease) for £6k and I think it was a bargain. It’s now 8 years old and still gets the same range as you said after 61k miles. My son uses it to commute to Stirling uni from Kirkintilloch no problem.
The 22KW AC charge is double that of a Tesla. The 50KW DC charge is not too shabby. Not super fast but adequate. I charge from home so have never DC charged. Yes this is a newer car but but it is misleading to say all Zoes cannot DC charge. Some can (from 2020 onwards). The electric handbrake on the facelift Zoe is horrible.
Soo....I make that about 21 miles per gallon commuting to work........!?!?!?!? We must be nearly in Bugatti Veyron territory there......!! Has Harry considered hiring a chauffeured Rolls instead.....!?!?
Been looking at buying a cheaper EV, where it seems the choice is between a Zoe and a Leaf. Can you clarify any more detail on Leaf battery degradadation? They refer to it in the verdict of this video too, but with no details.
@@ElectricVehicleMan yeah, but it's not the change in test that gave it a 0. Other cars got negatively effected, but not from 5 to 0! Renault made terrible, cost cutting choices!
I watched a video by Jonathan Porterfield about a Renault Zoe he bought at auction. It's got over 100,000 miles on the clock, he had the battery health checked, and the battery is at 89% state of health. It seems these batteries are better than the doom mongers would have us believe...
That's the funny thing about battery chemists and engineers, they just do not give a monkeys about making out of date technology and are thoroughly obsessed with improving it all the time. And you know, getting home to their family and their car not unexpectedly not having enough charge. Some people have a really weird attitude to STEM, imagining that people get into science and engineering to earn vast salaries and profiteer from making unsafe, bad products that could kill them too. I despair of those types. :(
And its so much fun to drive. Great in town and eats motorways
Rapid chargeing kills batteries and the old zoe's don't have rapid chargeing so you can't realy kill the battery.
Bring us more EV used cars reviews. They're very informative.
Bjorn Nyland in Norway is also looking at how older EVs are holding up, esp. battery condition. You are both doing a worthwhile job on this, keep it up - it's important that not all content is puff pieces about luxury SUVs at the top of market. This seems to be the current focus of the major OEMs until the ZEV mandates drag them into the middle market.
One of the surprising things about the Zoë is that you can put a wheelchair in the boot and still use the back seats as it will stand upright; I can't think of any other small hatchback where a wheelchair and four can travel.
That was why I had the Zoe on my shortlist for taking my Mum places, who's a wheelchair user.
However, on a test drive, I simply couldn't get a comfortable driving position - so I ended up getting a BMW i3.
And, yes, albeit taking the back wheels off her chair, it fits in the i3...!! 😲
This would be ideal for my mum and her trips to the shops, family and similar. Never ignore the shopping trolly segment!
Really useful video for a lot of people. Thanks.
We've got one as a second car and everything you say fits perfectly with our experience with it. Unfortunately that includes the fall to charge error. Local Renault dealer wanted £4.5k to fix the problem, HEVRA garage charged £1.3k to fix it. The dealer "fix" was the wrong part so would still have not worked after paying for that. Fortunately we'd taken out a warranty, and they paid the full bill. The dealer also buggered up the software, somehow deleting the heater, that'll be another £138 to diagnose, HEVRA garage can't do software updates to fix that problem. Dealer made a mess of reporting problem to warranty company so they refused to pay out, then took 3 days to update and total bill was £338.
Car is OK, Renault and their dealers are absolutely abysmal. Will never buy another Renault again.
I have had a ZE40 with Type 2 43kw charging for 18 months and I fell in love. I have 150 Mile range and most Tesco and Lidl have 22kw chargers, so just plan a shoo on the way home on longer journeys. And BP pulse does 43 Kw.
I get 4+ Miles/kw in winter, 3.5 when below 0. And 5+ Miles/kw in summer.
2 full size suitcases just fit in the boot and 2 adults and a large bag on the backseat.
The main thing is its so much fun to drive and you can beat most idiots away from the lights, which is useful sometimes.
I see 43kW AC charging in France, but is it much of a thing in the UK?
@@charlesbridgford254 All large BP Pulse chargers will do 43KW AC. And There are a lot of 22KW AC chargers!
Our ZE40 2018 model, battery owned, we bought last october and haven't looked back. A great little runabout car, with 140 mls range in winter in ECO mode at 85% charge which is good for the very hilly area we live in. One thing about buying the lease out; our car came with the original invoice from Renault, where the previous owner bought the lease out last september- it cost £3304!
I've had both a ZE40 and a ZE50 with CCS. Either are brilliant used cars. Loved driving them.
Rapid charging is the only real headache with either, now
We've had a 2022 Zoe as a courtesy car for the last month and a half (and done over 2500 miles), and I must say I really do like it. It's noticeably smaller than our Leaf, but the boot is still a decent size. In fact, I'd say the rear leg room is on par, if not better in the Zoe.
The interior quality of the Mk2 Zoe is much, much better, and the 50kW CCS charging is well worth it.
In terms of efficiency, over the 2500 miles we've done in it, we've averaged 3.8mi/kWh, about the same as our 2018 Leaf.
One advantage the older Zoe has is the 'normal' keyless entry with the button on the door.
Our 2022 Zoe has the stupid proximity key that automatically unlocks the car when you get close. The best part is, if you have the key in your pocket and go to the charge port, it locks the car as you're out of range. Also, if you walk away from the car with the key, the car will automatically lock as soon as the doors close. It's frankly dangerous.
The proximity locking with the key can be deactivated in the cars screen menu.
@@johannes914 I know, but then you have to use the key since they binned the buttons off
Leaf 40kWh is dropping in price now, below the level of a comparable battery-owned Zoe with rapid charging. Zoe is a great option if you do a lot of urban driving and parking though..
Just one word could be the reason for this... CHAdeMO
@@ysarn absolutely, plus the crappy battery management system. OTOH, if you charge at home and use the car for commuting.. and don't expect more than 100 mile range..
13:45 I've told my dad loads of times to get a cheap EV but he is happy having to go to the Diesel station
The whole point of the rumble strips at the end of a dual carriageway is to wake you up to how fast you are going: you don't want a car which makes them quieter!
I have one similar age really great second car.
I test drove one of these about 5 years ago. As you say big boot for the size. A great local / second car.
When I started hiring EVs in 2019, I did so with the Zoe ZE50 (GT Line +), and it was great fun and exceedingly practical for two adults - now I'm looking to buy a car again, it seems like the perfect match....but now we have a baby, and I can't quite get over that zero-rating for Euro NCAP. While a lot of that's due to the new emphasis on safety-assist devices, I'm not a huge fan of its crash survivability scores either.
(With that said, I'm quite aware that to get a better crashworthiness score, the simplest option is to design your car to be heavier and make the other person part of your crumple zone - after all, I cycle on the daily so that's just table stakes.)
If you actually look why it got a zero rating you may change your mind...
I guess that another bonus of leasing the battery is that big question about covering the battery whilst you are leasing it. So if a lease into say 20 years and the battery health then dropped, would they replace it??
I have had three zoes, two 22kwh and a 40kwh where i did 50000 miles in 2 years. the main weakness of early ones, heat pump failure, and i had a coil spring snap. Other than that no problems, great battery health and degradation. also buy yhr early batteries out for less than £2k and can pick up for £4k now
My wife has a ZE40. We use it all the time around town. We have free 22Kw charging in town, so a visit to the shops gives us a full charge, for free! In fact I prefer to drive it rather than my I-Pace in town, and economy is sooo good. 14 Kwh/100 Kms. The jag manages 24Kwh/ Kwh.
The battery lease was a good idea it just cost too much, if it had been around £30 a month most people would have jumped at the option.
The efficiency is helped by the super aerodynamics.
The council have just resurfaced a major road near me. The lines leading to the speed camera nave been painted on really thickly. My Zoe GT50 rumbles as I go over them.
By ‘eck you’re having good weather in Yorkshire at present 😂
Zoe is surprisingly good for a basic EV and wears really well, it even pans Tesla on its auto-wipers and speed limiter. Agree it’s not got a very dated charging spec. Wife had the Tesla and I had to do a 200 mile round trip in the Zoe ZE40 recently and it was an awful charging experience.
I agree, charging after a long trip (100 miles +) is a pain. I’m currently nr. Cromer area and it’s taken me 3 x 90 minute sessions at Morrisons (max 11kw), over 3 days, to get to 80% in my ZE40 and sufficient range for the trip home. Had some bracing walks though! That said I’ve only needed to do a handful of long trips since 2019 and it’s great for daily trips. I’m at 50k miles of hassle free motoring and getting 149 miles range in winter.
Bingley bypass... Saltaire... Manningham Lane....Lister Park....!?!?
...not lived in Bradford for decades, but it looks vaguely familiar.......!!
Cheers guys
This car is so incredible it even grows leaves on the trees in January.
Zoe: best synthetic car sound IMO.
good vlog will you be reviewing the volvo ex30 thanks
What about the Mitsubishi Imeev or the Volkswagen e up?
........and the one thing we all love, EVM.....is, a cute rear end.....
.....childish, clichéd, mildly smutty humour never grows old.....!
Oh, nearly forgot......nice car ... !!!
First gen Kia soul is an option too, duno if You got that in the uk.
battery charging impossible, mine did this when once i tried to charge on a igh speed charger and renault couldnt fix it.
Boot space cracks me up as a metric. I could fill a shopping trolley and fit it all in the boot of my Smart car. Under what circumstances would I go there and get more than one trolleys worth at a time? Sure, there are niche uses cases that some people have. But realistically we only need 2 seats and a small boot in most cars. If you have a family, do you need eight to ten seats cross two cars? I mean, if you do, maybe what you really needed was to visit a clinic and get some free contraceptives.
But I guarantee a bunch of people look at a 'small' boot and then recoil in horror because, you know, for the extra £5,000 to get a car with a bigger one, they can enjoy the benefits of harder parking, higher fuel costs and lower range, offset by the massive advantage that once in a while they can fit a slightly larger piece of flatpack furniture in their car. I mean, not something huge and long, but something just a few inches longer. Amazingly useful! And so much better than clicking the button for delivery and ordering it in advance online so it arrives the day before you want to assemble it.
I'm so glad I shook of that kind of nonsensical attitude to buying products - if I hadn't, my PC would probably light up like a Christmas tree on acid and have to have a warning attached in case it caused seizures.
A lot of disabled and/or elderly people need large boots for scooters, wheelchairs, walkers etc. that’s a significant proportion of the population (disabled people alone make up over 22% of the population).
I agree about quite a lot of adults with children buying ridiculously oversized cars, though. My parents managed with a lot smaller cars, even a Fiat 500 at one point!
That does have a lot to do with child car seats though, they take up a lot of room, and probably could be designed to be safer and take up less room, but no money in that!
What about the motor bearing failures because of the brushes used in the motor expensive to repair
Brushless motors.....like most new power tools these days.
Warning: The battery lease terms are pretty draconian and all in the favour of Renault. But, if you buy the car with the intention of buying out the lease, it shouldn't matter. The lease did include a really useful and comprehensive breakdown service (not sure if it it still exists)
What about Harry’s AIO?
BATTERY OWNED ALL THE TIME
I bought a Zoe 50 and it was cheaper to buy than the comparable and and mileage Cleo, and is also much cheaper to run. Battery owned is the key - they seem to hold up and therefore why would you rent the battery.
When the Zoe and Nissan Leaf were first launched in the UK, battery lease held 2 advantages:
1. to provide a degree of 'comfort' to potential owners who would have never owned an EV before and may have had misgivings about battery longevity.
2. to bring the retail price down to a more affordable level.
I used to own a Clio and I once sat in a Zoe in the showroom and it was basically a very bloated Clio from the outside and on the inside it was a very cramped Clio. But if you looked at the display, dials, buttons, steering wheel it was very clear they shared a lot of bits. For what it was I suppose it was okay but it aged badly and Renault didn't help by revising the design and degrading safety to the extent it scored a ZERO stars NCAP when it was retested.
What's the company name which repair EV battery?
3 minutes, 16 seconds, that was definitely a Renault "klunk" whilst closing the door.. 😅
Is this car good for first car
it looks like a northern Ireland plate but your missing a number at the end lol
We have a Tesla y but need a 2nd car for a run around a couple of times a week. Would you go for a Zoe of seat mii? Thanks
Different price brackets.
Thanks, 11k ish budget. Any preference?
@@hothie3As a second car we have owned the SEAT Mii electric from new in 2021 with zero issues. We have also owned 3 Renault Zoes previously. We enjoyed the Zoes but the Mii is our preference and one we’ll be keeping for a long time. IMHO it would suit your proposed usage perfectly.
Thanks Sib4897, just the feedback from an owner I needed. Mii it is 🛺
I posted a couple (nearly 3) years ago that I bought a 65 plate Zoe “I” model (no battery lease) for £6k and I think it was a bargain. It’s now 8 years old and still gets the same range as you said after 61k miles. My son uses it to commute to Stirling uni from Kirkintilloch no problem.
There’s been one sat on auto trader for months now £2495 spares or repair.
Constantly wondering if it would be worth a punt
Yeah I've seen that and wondered myself lol
The 22KW AC charge is double that of a Tesla. The 50KW DC charge is not too shabby. Not super fast but adequate. I charge from home so have never DC charged. Yes this is a newer car but but it is misleading to say all Zoes cannot DC charge. Some can (from 2020 onwards). The electric handbrake on the facelift Zoe is horrible.
I said all Zoe’s of this shape cannot.
Motor Q had a 44kW speed charging
i wish they just made an electric clio
The Zoe is very frutiger aero style design to ne
I LOOKED AT A CAT N LAST WEEK FOR £3300
Soo....I make that about 21 miles per gallon commuting to work........!?!?!?!?
We must be nearly in Bugatti Veyron territory there......!!
Has Harry considered hiring a chauffeured Rolls instead.....!?!?
leaf battery degrades, i got 90 miles from a 22kwh and 200 miles from a 40kwh
Been looking at buying a cheaper EV, where it seems the choice is between a Zoe and a Leaf. Can you clarify any more detail on Leaf battery degradadation? They refer to it in the verdict of this video too, but with no details.
I have the Renault zoe 50kw great we car
EV News | Winter CHAOS Hits Tesla Drivers; Australian EV Charger Rollout
Dave Takes It On
6.19K
Is it the best used EV in terms of safety?
5 star in its day.
@@ElectricVehicleMan Can't get those side impact videos out of my head.. like Kylie
That’s the ZE50, ZE40 has the side impact pillar airbags.
@@devbrix1 you're right.. forgot!
@@devbrix1 I can't think of any other manufacturer that removed safety features from later models. Nuts.
Is this an episode of selling it to harry?
That car sold months ago.
She's alright for an old EV
Hello guys
40KWH IS NOT SUCH A GOOD DEAL NOW, YOU CNA GET A 50KWH FOR £9K
Is this the one with 5 star or 0 star NCap?
A car that has 5 star 10 years ago doesn't mean it's safer than a new one that get's 0 stars.
They're much harder tests.
@@ElectricVehicleMan yeah, but it's not the change in test that gave it a 0. Other cars got negatively effected, but not from 5 to 0!
Renault made terrible, cost cutting choices!
😂 watch till the end
That's not a car, that's an oversized scooter.
It’s an electric Clio. Is that a scooter too? 🤦♂️