The Signs of Bad Therapy with Nate Postlethwait
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Check out Nate's work!
natewrites.com/
Grab The Podcast Link
open.spotify.c...
Take the Toxic Family Test
www.toxicfamilytest.com
Learn more about Patrick Teahan,
Childhood Trauma Resources and Offerings
➡️ linktr.ee/patr...
MUSIC IS BY:
Chris Haugen - Ibiza Dream
• Chris Haugen - Ibiza D...
Editing Service:
www.jamesrara....
⚠️ Disclaimer
My videos are for educational purposes only. Information provided on this channel is not intended to be a substitute for in person professional medical advice. It is not intended to replace the services of a therapist, physician, or other qualified professional, nor does it constitute a therapist-client or physician or quasi-physician relationship.
If you are, or someone you know, is in immediate danger, please call a local emergency telephone number or go immediately to the nearest emergency room.
If you are having emotional distress, please utilize 911 or the National Suicide Hotline
1-800-273-8255
I had a therapist ask me why I wanted to dig into the painful events of my past, because "the past doesn't matter anymore." Like, that's the whole reason I was there, to get to the roots of the issues. 🙃
Same!!
I swear if I have to hear one more therapist say "we need to focus on the present" when my whole issue is the past won't stop haunting me, gah.
It doesn't matter what I say, they don't understand. Just like growing up.
I feel stuck in a rut I can't get out of because I ran into an issue I can't solve alone and everyone wants to brush over the real issues.
I'm seriously debating going back to self help, it feels better to struggle alone than be invalidated and gaslit by people who are supposed to help.
That’s very sad and I know that to be true. I am a therapist myself and at this time in my life I need a good mindful present therapist who doesn’t think they know everything. Self help is good but it can only do so much depending on your situation unfortunately. 😢 I recommend seeing someone once or twice and don’t go back if you don’t feel really good about it. There’s no obligation to keep going. Good luck.
Omg that’s like a GP or specialist doctor saying “the past doesn’t matter” for a physical injury eg a broken ankle- that was never treated properly and 10yrs later you’re still getting pain that comes and goes.🤦🏻🤦🏻 only to discover after a proper investigation it never healed properly 🤦🏻. I’m sure - if they know what they’re doing and are competent they do a full physical investigation and history before even poking and prodding and making assumptions on something they know nothing about. How can a proper competent diagnosis be made if the basics are not even done?.
Same
As a trauma therapist who works with cPTSD, DID, Depersonalization, Dissociation, PTSD, etc., I too get many clients who are grateful for the work of getting to the root issue. There is often a sigh of relief. I also dislike the word disorder. Our symptoms are merely a way we are trying to manage life or the way that our nervous system is now reacting internally to the external world is simply a result of what we have experienced. Thank you both for speaking in to this huge problem in our profession. The here and now method of therapy only makes clients feel like a therapy failure.
Thank you for that. I completely agree with you about the label of 'disorder'. Medicalisation of human misery!
I now try to remind myself that my 'depressive disorder' is a sane response to insane childhood experiences ie traumaa
@@bootsybadger - Exactly. If you haven't tried EMDR therapy for your cPTSD, I highly encourage it. Find a good therapist who does implicit memory, developmental wounds, and childhood traumas.
It would be absolutely fascinating to have Patrick interview a "bad" therapist to get their perspective on why they are such a bad therapist! Would be enlightening! 😆
😂
I have been a "bad therapist" with some clients, though good with others. My "bad" therapy was falling too much into active listening with a few folks who would have benefited from more hands-on guidance or processing. Some things are my personal flaws and some things are systemic. Also some of it is genuinely fit -- I'm sure those 2-3 would have perceived me as passive but most of my clients would not, so that's a weird aspect of the field too. I'll weigh in on the systemic piece just cuz this applies to most therapists, but I think the individual/personal piece is super important too of course:
1. In school you get the most hands-on supervision with your generalist "talk therapy" skills and it takes a while in the field to get good at the types of stuff Patrick talks about that are "squishier" but important and high-stakes things. Like coping skills that can't be taught on a handout. So a lot of times if I am uncertain in session, I'd fall back on the talk therapy approach. I've seen others fall back on handouts and really clear-cut skills. For some clients I'd be totally on the ball and know exactly what I'm doing and how I want to treat, and with others it'd be a bit more "treading water." Sometimes we also fear "going there" with a client cuz we get told over and over not to unless you're really equipped to, but it's hard to become equipped to if we're supposed to avoid it until then...?
2. A lot of therapists are in horrible working conditions which make it harder to learn. Y'all are talking in the comments about therapists with character problems or personality disorders -- this is true, and it applies to supervisors too, so even if I know I have the problem in point 1, sometimes I can't get help for that problem. Sometimes therapists have a 60-100 person caseload (not seen weekly, but total humans to keep track of). When I was brand new I had 10 new clients a week until I reached 35, which all happened so fast that I didn't have the clinical skills to appropriately filter who was a good fit and couldn't talk about all 10 each week in my 1 hour of (bad quality) supervision.
3. Patrick keeps talking about mentors -- among my entire current set of coworkers and therapist friends (30-40+), no one I know has real mentors. We have supervisors we see on a formal basis, and we have professors we might get coffee with here and there who give us encouragement and loose career guidance. But there's no super close mentoring relationships that I know of. I would LOVE to have one, and probably most of my peers would, but it seems rare. We typically pay for supervision at a similar hourly price as y'all pay for therapy, $150-200 in my area (and we're supposed to also get therapy too), with similar boundaries. Or our jobs offer it on a formal hourly basis. There's tons of peers helping peers, which is amazing, but then can get hard to really deepen your expertise in 1 area vs being a generalist.
These are some of the systemic factors, but there's definitely individual character factors too :) I will say the therapists who have more problematic boundaries or less awareness are also usually not the ones who consult a ton with peers, which is a systemic+personal problem.
He should wear a secret camera like the James O'Keefe sting reporters
@@veryboredpuguniversities in general are doing away with mentors. And in a social sense, there's no such thing as a person that wants to me a mentor to someone else. Specially if you're not getting paid extra for it. Only the younger person benefits. What's the benefit for the mentor? Nothing
still bitter about college programs that PROMISED mentorship existed and would be facilitated
@@veryboredpugthank you for sharing your experience here. It all rings very true, but something I really hope to see more of is this acknowledgment you gave that not every person is the right fit for every person as a therapist, and that doesn’t mean that they are bad at being therapists or have bad therapeutic practices. It just means that not every person is the same.
I have been to so many bad
therapists I cannot keep trying because they made my life totally worse. Where I live no therapists understand childhood trauma or complex ptsd. I am 63 and I think many people my age that have this have given up and believe them. I did for a long time. We are told we are this or that...labels . Never would they let me talk about what happened to me. I was told I could be several "labels" diagnosed but no help as to why. And the medicine (s) the doctors put you on only makes you more confused.
Here here!!
Exactly!! I had the same experiences.
This channel and Crappy Childhood Fairy were both very helpful in taking ownership of my ralk therapy sessions. Specifically with initially focusing on childhood issues/trauma but then moving on from it because re-reviewing those experiences did not provide relief and peace.
Using my therapy sessions to focus more on "the now" has helped a ton.
I am so lucky to have experienced 2 phenomenal therapists, the first for 17 years and the second current one for 4 years
At 50:27 Nate pretty much nailed why the good ones, the ones who are truly doing the work feels, and the reasons why it is/becomes a life's work, why you do it, how you're able hold a safe place for them. Thank you for that, both of you. ❤
Such a rich and vital conversation. Thank you both so much.
As always, thank you so much, Patrick! Keep up the amazing work. Respect!!!
I am so grateful for you both Patrick and Nate. I feel I have a chance at a new way for life ❤
I have wasted so much money on therapy that has never really helped me. I have begged people to talk about my childhood parentification, and they spend a bit on hearing the story and then move on. Watching Patrick's videos, I actually have come to understand all of the issues that should have been explored in order to help me heal from it. Instead, I have ended feeling dismissed and that "I am bad at therapy"
I have been told by therapists that I have good insight and that seems to stump therapists, so they think I am good and they remain on the surface and then talk about life goals instead of what I told them I needed.
What a lovely way to start my day.
Thank you.
This was very refreshing! Thanks for doing this! So enlightening after so much validation!!!!!
I was married to a schizophrenic. Repeated visits to mental health institutions and offices. Every psychiatrist and therapist led me to believe that they were competent and eager to take on the 'case'. Every type of therapy failed instantly and the chaos continued..The only relief was for her to be Incarsarated and the court declared her a hazard to herself, the family, :and there community she was in Birkenstock attired 'counselors'. She was to serve a Year and a day, , but was released in 8 months as "now stable". So much for the professionals.
I just wanted a one-on-one therapist, but the low income clinic insisted that everyone had to go to group therapy in order to receive individual therapy. The group I was forced to attend didn't really fit my diagnosis or my issues, but I did what I was told. The group leaders decided everyone MUST get in touch with their emotions. I TOLD them my emotions were not my friends that day. My father was dying of cancer in a city four hours away, and it was my job to drive my mother to see him later that day and help her to understand that he wasn't coming home ever again. They didn't know all this because I wasn't given the opportunity to discuss it. They got their way. I got in touch with my emotions. I was still sitting there quietly, tears rolling down my face, when they ended the group session. After the others left, the leaders asked me if I was okay. I told them no, and why I was falling apart. Their response was that I should turn off the lights and close the door when I left. No attempt at all to help me put the pieces back together so I could go do what I had to do. Still don't like going to group therapy sessions because of that horrendous experience.
i remembered in 2019 my very first therapy appointments i never took seriously. i was always high right before going, and never really talked, but tbh my car accident brought up a lot of childhood trauma, and me going through a journey of realizing i was autistic this whole time and that’s why i got treated differently. but my therapist wasn’t that great because it wasn’t the type of therapist i needed, ive needed a trauma therapist this whole time and still never seen one yet. my town is very very low on therapists lmao and i can’t go back unless i pay 180$ i owe.
I was diagnosed bipolar by several psychiatrists and psychologists and put on 28 consecutive medications...and told I would have to take them for the rest of my life. No one asked me if I had been raped and abused or if I wanted to talk about my past. A decade later I am off all the meds and have a CPTSD diagnosis. The mental health field is ......facepalm.
Wow,let's talk tomorrow I want to figure out class action lawsuit for Queitipine..Also trialed 15 other Ned's in 18 months.Gained 64 lb to 340,as Queitipine put me on night eating while half asleep for years before that.
Now gut brain axis n healing is next.
Got of that fricken Clonazapam
So much malpractice!
Yup
They never do!! It's disturbing and evil!!
Same in Australia it’s a front for big pharma, no investigating trauma or working on it…here’s a label, here’s some meds now f off
It's important for childhood trauma survivors to recognize that when "well-meaning" therapists and friends opt to be the Devil's Advocate, they are not being YOUR advocate--and that's what your inner child needs most, an advocate for your feelings and experiences.
Great talk. Thank you, Patrick!👍
Yes!! I had a therapist do this to me just the other week and it reminded me so much of being gaslited by my parents that I felt like I was losing my sanity. After I asked when will there be space for me and not my parents, they said it was not their job to validate my feelings because they are not my friends. Had an emotional episode after this 😣
My “support system” pulls this crap all the freaking time. I have no advocates.
ahh so beautifully stated! Thank you for this!
THIS!
@@moranababic8450 that's terrible. Feel sorry for you.
This is why it's not always as simple as "go to therapy" as all the self-righteous people tell us to do. You have to wade through so many bad therapists to find the good ones. I've been retraumatized by incompetent therapists and come out WORSE than when I went in. As with many others here, it involved gaslighting. Obviously, there are amazing, selfless therapists out there ... but I often feel they are hard to find.
They don't have to be selfless, in my mind, they just have to be worth the good money you pay them.
@@CynthiaSchoenbauer and what makes a therapist worth the money you pay them? I'd say the one I'm seeing now is worth it as she listens, offers solutions where she can and we've built a rapport because she does indeed have empathy.
I've also seen a few crappy people over the years - the standout TWO were separate therapists, seen years apart, who for some reason thought if they repeatedly asked and pressured me to answer a question tangentially related to my issues, I'd crack and the true response I guess they assumed I'd been "suppressing" would come rushing out of the very depths of my soul, or some similar Hollywood type rubbish.
In reality, I needed their help to come to the conclusions they were trying to get me to come to by ineffective means.
A lot of them don't take insurance, so they're too expensive to see.
Yes, I know, as if you can just walk into a therapist's office and expect them to understand. It doesn't work that way.
@@ShirleyLaVerne I think you made the right choice!
The mental healthcare system should be held accountable for all of the people they misdiagnosed and retraumatized by their negligence.
THIS
Yep!!!!!!!!!
Yep, I have been misdiagnosed three different times and put on meds that ruined my health & life. Now, fithteen years later, I can't sleep without taking pills. UGH. I lost everything...😢
@@mday3821 same here
Hah, I started seeing a psychiatrist when I was getting diagnosed for EDS and lupus and a bunch of other crap. He tried to dx me as manic-depressive on the FIRST APPOINTMENT because I talk with a lot of energy and speed and jokes and smiles, but then the tiredness of chronic illness would kick me and I'd slow down.
I'd also show some of the anger and grief that I wanted to work through with him and stop being so damn positive, so he was *sure.* Until he realized he was wrong after a few more visits 🙄 He later just... _dropped_ me from his practice with no notice and no real reason. 🤷♀️
I’ve been through 5 therapists no child trauma experience which is what I needed. All they did was basic CBT stuff that doesn’t help with narcissistic family, trauma bond, codependency, CPTSD. I had one therapist fall asleep during one of my sessions and I never returned to see her. Psychiatrist are no better they are so stuck in archaic treatment models.
Yes- it’s too bad that insurance only covers CBT.
Somatic experiencing, yoga and breath work class? Not a chance.
Just keep the low man down
Wow, I’m so sorry you experienced all of that. I agree that CBT is not the best model for many issues, and it can feel - and be - retraumatizing. It’s a real shame that CBT is often the only model that is acceptable to programs and insurance companies. There are so many other options that can be helpful, like Internal Family Systems, Narrative Therapy, various person-centered modalities, Solution-Focused Therapy, Art Therapy, Expressive Arts Therapy… so many options beyond CBT!
@@DawnDavidson I would love to do expressive art therapy.
Wow, I thought I was the only one this happened to! One of the psychologists I saw, who described herself as "trauma informed" nodded off TWICE in the span of a couple of weeks. She woke up after I had stopped talking from the shock of seeing that she had fallen asleep and said nothing at all and pretended like it didn't even happen. It was very awkward and I felt humiliated. She had a broken arm so I thought maybe she was on painkillers that made her drowsy. Either way, it was not okay and she should have addressed it.
Oh gaaah, I've had a therapist fall asleep on me too!! Yikes!!
Once when I was in the throes of difficult emotions, crying & expressing my pain & anger, my therapist asked if I wanted to continue to have a pity party or do something about the situation. She almost yelled it, like SHE was angry or irritated. Caught me so off guard. From that point on, I hid my negative emotions from her & put a happier face on things. I was so afraid she was going to accuse me of feeling sorry for myself. I basically lied to my therapist to protect myself after that. Makes me scared to find a new one...
Horrific. I’m really sorry she put toxic fuel into the fire of your toxic shame and self rejection.
That’s really abusive. I hope you can find self acceptance and people who treat you better.
That is sickening. I wish I could hug you.
That is awful and I feel sad hearing that! I hope that therapist gets the feedback and awareness to stop doing that, but more importantly, I hope you were able to find yourself in a healthier situation, maybe with a respectful, capable and professional therapist.
😢
In my late teens I had a therapist accuse me of sexism because, a year after getting away from an abusive father, I was still terrified of men. I learned fast to only go to therapists who specialize in trauma.
Big hugs! 🫂 I relate. I was called a racist by mine.
After decades of untreated depression for childhood trauma, I can say I went from idolizing men to sexualizing men to marrying abusive men to fearing men to not wanting to be around men. That's where I stand now in my 60s. Sad bc I know there are tons of great men out there. Mine will never be resolved now, too old for anything to make a real difference. You simply cannot make friends at age 62 if you never learned how to, and older people are naturally more suspicious and selective in who we will like and trust. I wish you well.
@@cosmoplakat9549 I hope you can make best friends with yourself and treat yourself well and engage in hobbies and activities that you enjoy. It can be very simple things that cost little. Also I like listening to radio and stuff like that and I talk to myself lots at home out loud, when I’m doing little jobs.
@ref_healthyliving3118 toe rag- one name there’s others. Also I know a few people personally, I know them well over the years, they are all trained as psychotherapists- proper training- passed accreditations- why I didn’t figure this before but they are all people who have an entitled streak- that’s the better bit of what I can say. For the life of me, I can’t figure out how they could learn so much, practice etc and yet in reality be selfish, petty, 2 faced, and impressed by appearance and whenever they mess up they are excellent at detaching from all that.
@ref_healthyliving3118If your therapist is saying racist and mysogynistic things, it might be worthwhile to file a complaint w/the state. That is discriminatory and harassing behavior...granted I live in a blue state; I'm not sure about red states, but there should be laws you can Google for your specific state on what is considering reportable harassing and abusing behavior.
My sister is studying to counselling…I’m terrified for her clients - she is judgemental, critical, invalidates, minimises, victim blames; she cannot take feedback, anything that remotely questions her words, actions is met with “well you did x, x and x so it’s your fault”, screaming, yelling or a full blown tantrum; so there’s no emotion regulation, no accountability, and no capacity for self-reflection. After she has these meltdowns she behaves like it didn’t happen - and if I bring it up she denies it.
Scary
It’s POSSIBLE that she may be better as a therapist than as a sister. Sadly, we often bring our worst selves to our familial relationships. I hope for the sake of her clients that she’s better with others than she is with you! Doesn’t make it ok that she behaves the way that she does with you, though, and I’m sorry you have to endure that.
@@DawnDavidson It's possible she may be better with clients that don't have similar histories to hers, or until she gets tired of them
Yep. A young woman who babysat for me and fell while holding my baby and *broke his leg* while we were out…I came come and discovered him screaming in pain, and still she didn’t say anything…and then I had to call her after my husband took her home and ask her what happened point blank, and she was just like no emotion, “Oh we slipped and fell”.
My older kids told me he cried a long time and she chose not to call and tell us.
She wasn’t a shy person in the least, she may have been afraid she wouldn’t get paid or something if she told me, but one thing was sure: she did NOT care about my son. In the least.
I took him into the ER, he got X-rays, and a cast. She saw him in the cast later at an event, she never asked how he was or apologized or any empathy of any kind. She and I knew one another well, had regular interactions for over a year prior to this. She just avoided the whole thing. It was bizarre.
Obviously I never had her watch my kids again, but a few years after, I noticed she was in graduate school to become a social worker to help people, possibly become a counselor.
I can’t imagine this person who could break a baby’s leg and not care in the slightest “helping” the vulnerable. But that’s what they do, right? Seek out those who are less able to exploit so they can benefit, and not be held accountable.
@@naturefleur2062 oh my god. that's horrible. I'm so sorry.
43:00 I really treasure all of the therapists on social media who go out of their way to be content creators *because* therapy is so out of reach. I'm a self-driven person and it's how I'm able to have growth on my own.
I used to feel like I was maybe not doing it right because I'm doing it by myself but now I feel like having a good therapist is like taking music private lessons *and it doesn't lessen the impact* of what I do on my own time. I'm just doing it in a less efficient manner.
I like that, like self taught therapy with online lessons like how a guitar player does it haha
I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
@@liz6445 just about anyone can teach themself to play an instrument just using tools on the internet, add it's the same with therapy. If you learned from a music teacher, it would be more structured and they can teach things that can't be learned from a how-to guide, so it's more efficient to have a teacher. But if you can't afford a teacher, you can still learn to play ukulele.
Gaslighting by a therapist for 8 years only made me more helpless in the face of family narcissistic abuse and financial abuse, and did not help me at all with childhood emotional neglect and abuse. She was an apologist for my parents, instead of advocating for me. But of course, I realized this much too late. Now I understand why I chose her to be my therapist in the first place. It was just similar to the abuse and gaslighting I was already used to and familiar with.
I can relate, I had pretty much the same experience. I didn't know it was that common. I'm glad this video was made and people are sharing their bad therapy experience, because what my therapist did to me was unacceptable, but I had no means to do anything about it, and I hate to think what effect she's having on other clients and therefore on the whole community. Perhaps this video and sharing comments, is a good step towards getting better therapist out there.
Very sad. I worry about that all the time.
im in this right now and I just don't know how to get out
I don't want to give unwanted advice, and that is possibly what I'm doing right now, but just in case it helps, I'd like to share an observation. I notice most people who want to help don't make the effort of understanding where the one they want to help i s exactly, what you need, what are your limits etc. so we end up only feeling pressure from people around us who may have the intention to help(when we feel trapped) thus we don't know precisely enough where we are to know what is the next step. Here's an analogy, when you enter a destination on your phone, the first thing your phone does is to use the GPS to determine your precise location, it's the only way it can give the proper direction to get you where you want to go, most people skip that first step, they guess where you might be, and they guess wrong so they give you the wrong directions. Most people need to rest more and need to be taking care of, they need less of a load to be able to make better decision for themselves, they don't need more pressure. That's my experience anyways. @@AtomiCZlut
@@ChocolatBacon I had social worker at school explaining/ advocating for my mother why she choosing her suck a shit abusive boyfriend over me was shock to me!😤 Even I was 16 by then I knew this was not right. Mother always should chose her kids over anybody 🤐 Well She lay her bed she can sleep on thay none off her kids want anything to do with her😖
Imagine paying a plumber to come and fix a leak in your house. He arrives, looks at the pipes, tells you a little bit about how he got to your house, what PVC is, and what your relationship to water looks like. When he talks, you smile and nod, and vice versa. After an hour, he congratulates you on making good decisions and progress, says "see you next week", and leaves. For a few hours, you forget about the leak. The next week, he does the exaxt same thing.
Can you imagine if society broadly accepted this level of professional negligence in disciplines OTHER than therapy? We'd simply cease to exist as a civilization.
fucking THANK YOU!! 👏👏 couldn't have put it in better words!! perfect analogy!
In a capitalist society, no one gives a sh&t. Literally the philosophy is to exploit to make money. As much money as you can, which means as many unethical shortcuts as you want. Philanthropy has been dead on arrival.
This…THIS is why I don’t believe in therapy! I’ve had the same experiences! 🤡
the first week he uses duct tape to fix the leak. He says "duct tape sometimes works for some people." It doesn't work for you. the next week he puts a bucket under the drip and later asks you "how did you go with that?" it offered a little relief from the water damage but still didn't really fix the leak. besides you have to empty the bucket all the time now. He tells you that you might just have to learn to deal with that, and if you stop using the bucket all the water damage is now your fault. sometimes the bucket overflows and it's now your fault.
Eventually he suggests turning off the water altogether. He's had a lot of success with this technique. You give it a go and now you're stuck buying bottled water for life, or else dying of thirst.
the drainpipe still leaks.
IKR
I had a therapist scream me out of his office, literally. I was 8 months pregnant with my 6th child. He accused me of “being one of those wives”. He had his notes wrong on the timing of when an event happened. He didn’t like me correcting him and when he did the math……apparently wanting to talk about an event 5 years ago vs 6 months like he thought means I’m an unforgiving wife. It took me 6 years to try another therapist. Really shook me up.
Argh, I'm so sorry!!
That therapist sounds like a wacko!
Oh ... I am sorry!
Sounds like he maybe was "one of those husbands", himself ...
OMG, that’s horrifying! 😢 So sorry that happened to you. What a nut job.
It sounds like he needs therapy.
One of the most empowering things I have ever done was to fire a therapist _in session_ for secondary abuse. I planned it carefully and I had friends available for support before and after. Confronting someone I thought of as an authority figure would usually have me wound up ahead of time and wallowing around in guilt after, but I went in calm, I was calm while I explained why I was firing her, and I exited the session knowing I'd done the right thing.
Good for you! 🙂
Well done. Thinking of similar currently. Just thinking it through exactly how I'm going to do it and what to say.
What is secondary abuse.
@ruthbarnes9999 Secondary abuse is when you talk to somebody about the abuse and they undercut you. It couldn't be as bad as you say it was, you're being over-sensitive, are you sure you're not exaggerating? Mine told me not to go "reevaluating your entire marriage based on abuse. Marriages have these moments." Check out the Mend Project. Lots of good information about abuse, how to tell the abuser from the victim, and I strongly recommend searching the blog for the post on reactive abuse, as well.
I don't advise doing this. The therapist could entrap you in the office and continue abusing you. You have a right to cancel further sessions if you feel unsafe. My therapist entrapped me over the phone! I'm glad I was not doing an in-person, though I definitely needed a support person after. I'm glad you at least had a support person (or two). That was good foresight at least.
I was told the problem must be me and to stop acting the way I was. My dad was physically assaulting me and I had just come out of an abusive relationship as an adult. I had terrible PTSD and cried daily from it. This pysch told me I didnt have PTSD, my doctor and two other pyschs completely disagreed with him. The damage he did though took years to undo. Be very very careful who you see, victim blaming seems very common and I think some of these pyschologists etc are character disordered themselves.
You have remarkable insight re: these power hungry, control freak, grandiose, deluded narcissistic "therapists." So glad to hear part of your story, CaramelSunflowers.
I was raped by my therapist after 5 years of what I thought was good treatment. I’m a childhood SA survivor. He lost his license. I published a story about it to try and help other victims.
I am lost for words, I cannot imagine what You've been thru. I wish You only the best people in Your life and truly safe space for healing.
I’m mortified for you. What’s the story? How can we get it?
This is horrible, I am so sorry this happened to you.
This is horrifying 😳
So very sorry for what he did to you.
That's cut and dry horrible therapy! Sorry that happened to you.
I've had therapists that were ten times more crazy and unstable than my abuser.
Sometimes people in "caretaking" professions are covert/communal narcissists ... personal experience. Scary people.
Same.
My ex is a psychologist and she is unstable and abusive with entitled, narcissistic tendencies.
God bless her traumatized soul...
@@MushroomMagpie I think the nature of the profession attracts narcissists like a magnet. It's supply central
Oh my gosh, one said I could call her between our appointments and after a few sessions, I got the nerve up to call and had a simple question about our next appointment, and she picked up and screamed at me and I was just in shock, then she calmed down and said, “oh, I thought you were my friend X…” and it just confused me, which was worse, she screams at clients who call her, or she screams at her friends?? That’s just one of a handful who all exhibited weird behaviors that should never be seen in a professional setting. I think the privacy of the client-therapist dynamic and that kind of one-on-one setting enables those people who cross boundaries and feel secure in doing so. It makes me angry they create a power imbalance and then exploit clients.
I was told by a therapist that families need to stay together and that sometimes abuse works out for the best because it "helps you learn to deal with your problems".
Later found her on an LDS family services website. She was advertising herself as help for religious trauma!! To be fair, it was a very Mormon area, but jfc. I just never went back.
Everything she'd said about "family" suddenly made ALL the sense. 🤦
As an exmormon, that makes me so mad to hear!!! I can't imagine the twisted gaslighting that would be involved in an LDS therapist trying to treat the religious trauma of a person who's trying to stay within the LDS church!!!!!! I'm so horrified that happened to you. It's not ok at all.
Was it Jodi Hildebrandt?
Gross
When your 'family' is the cause of your trauma, discussing it with them and spending time with them only further amplifies the abuse, and feelings of worthlessness.
As someone who can't afford a pizza, let alone a therapist, this channel alongside Jay Reid's work on RUclips has helped me begin to find myself and accept that my entire family made me the scapegoat and that they are all narcissistically abusive. When you introduced your family toxicity test this month, I was as honest and rational as possible during the quiz and still scored an 89/100. The amount of truth and self-discovery I've unearthed from your content cannot be understated. I was also referred to this channel by a therapist during a one-off consultation in 2021, ironically enough.
I think people who can't afford therapy have really been spared.
@@pisceananarchyvortex7223it's not for everyone and not everyone should be a therapist. If you are a good candidate and find the right one the outside perspective can be live changing.
However not everyone will be able to benefit. Most but not all.
It's really hard in my case because my narcissistic mother forced me into therapy at a very, VERY young age. She effectively explained that I was going because I was broken and needed to get better, and so she threw me at therapists and psychiatrists in hopes of one of them sticking and "fixing" me and... That was over 15 years ago. Fast forward to now and I have actual PTSD on top of the CPTSD (mainly due to the actions of my toxic family), feel I need therapy, and have gone off and on over the last few years and it's been a struggle that's truly only gotten worse.
At this point, I'm considering just opening any encounters with therapists going forward with "I'm here for XYZ, I do not need ABC, I have been through 123, do not tell me 456, I will leave if you do 789" just to make things as clear, concise, and quick as possible... This world is tough enough, I do not need my safespace attacking me anymore, I've dealt with that far too much.
I think your plan makes a lot of sense and is perfectly valid given your experience.
This plan is the most logical I have ever seen. I’m truly impressed with your resilience and determination. You have definitely given me a better method of progression than I could do for myself. Thank you❤
Honestly your experience sounds a lot like mine. To this day I avoid therapy after all the quacks my mother dragged me to. I still remember being told I owed more empathy to HER by the therapist that SHE chose and forced me to go to, who was also her therapist too. I was shut down when I tried to talk about my own feelings or the way she treated me
I've done what you said. Some therapists were mean and said I was lying, cause I wasn't supposed to be so logic.
After I found a good therapist based on my problems I finally had my feelings validated. That's what I recommend you. 😊
@@PS-dm1dq Same.
I’ve been waiting for this episode for so many years! I was in therapy for childhood SA. Therapist ghosted me after 7 years and refused to refer me or answer my calls. Just abandoned me. It’s because i called her out on breaking boundaries with my medical dr ( a surgeon) and telling him things about my therapy…and the therapist was on probation and her license was in trouble before I ever came along. She saved herself and sacrificed me…just like my parents. Soooo awful. I haven’t trusted therapy since.
I'm so sorry you experienced that! I had a "saved herself and sacrificed me" psychologist and it was so traumatic that for years I had physical PTSD responses just driving near her office. < : - ( Some people should NOT be psychologists!!!
So sorry that happened to you! There are good therapists, but it can be so difficult to find them, and to surmount the barriers - financial, physical, etc - needed to get the care you need. It makes way too much sense that you might conclude that “no therapy” is a better choice than THAT. 😢
@kristenmerrill-nl2dh
Please report her to her professional board in your state. You deserved to be treated professionally, and she dropped the ball big time.
I am a SCHOOL BUS DRIVER, and do you know I am not even allowed to discuss something that happened ON THE BUS with another DRIVER (who also has the same high-level background check that I had, and who does the same job as I do)? It's true. So how the hell does that woman think it's okay to discuss your deepest darkest info with your medical doctor without your consent??
I know it's a lot of effort, but please, do it. Concentrate on how you'll be helping OTHER future and current patients against going through what you've gone through.
@@lisahinton9682 statute of limitations expired. I only had 18 months. This happened in 2016. She’s still practicing.
Trust your own intuition. That is all you need.
Wayyyyy too many incompetent lazy therapists😢
You are soooo, soooo right! Thank you for making me not be the only one saying it anymore.
Agreed.I'm a therapist and I believe every therapist should be in supervision and therapy in order to keep their own shit in check. We can do so much good and so much harm.
@@kathrynparke1711🎉😂❤
It's the easiest "legal racket" of them all, especially in the USA.
@@kathrynparke1711 thank you so much for saying this. There's nothing worst than so-called professionals who strongly believe they're perfect and can't receive criticism BC at the end of the day the patient and client are responsible if the thing turns bad. Sometimes they just suffer from the incompetence and the severe lack of empathy from the therapist
I’ve had so many shitty therapists. I’m so grateful this is a discussion on this platform and I’m so grateful your channel exists, Patrick. The damage a bad therapist can do is not something to be underestimated.
I found therapy to be profoundly disempowering. They never helped me, just shamed, blamed, gaslit and re-traumatized me; and I've tried a few and wasted the best years of my life seeking relief, finding none, and now I'm old. I think there is something intrinsically wrong with the therapeutic relationship. It didn't work for me. Should I waste what's left of my life looking for a decent therapist? The last one i decided not to continue after 6 visits, where I became privy to a boatload of her family system and trauma. Naturally I carried her pain. Easily. I am so strong. I was carrying my parents' pain, i mean, that's how I was trained. She should have been paying me. Thankfully, I recognized that she was inappropriate, unprofessional and had poor boundaries. Not exactly able to help me with my trauma when she was obviously still unhealed from hers.
@@janebethshimon I think you're uncomfortable with the power dynamics. Someone is vulnerable and another isn't. It gives a lot of responsibility to the professional if they are the right one. It could be problematic if they are unethical and lack empathy
Too many of the therapists I tried felt like just talking to a bobblehead doll that kept nodding and saying "go on", but the notes they were taking may as well have been their groceries.
I often think the random word my therapist writes down every 5 minutes or so is her grocery list. It's clear by her commentary that she doesn't listen to what I am saying anyway
@CatherineMeneses-therapy you're delusional
CatherineMeneses-therapy That's a lot of words to say lazy.
Everyone can tell when you're slacking off at work, I know cause I've been at the 3 ends of it.🙄
@CatherineMeneses-therapy Since when is poor work ethic a body type??
Not to mention the trauma of also paying those psychologists a bunch of money to be perpetually traumatized. I thought investing all my savings into therapy would pay out in the end 😢
Same. I thought it was an investment not gambling
This is the main issue as I see it. Generally speaking the victims of abuse who scrape together what little they've had the wherewithal to amass face utter defeat when they realise they've been taken advantage of, again. With their existing issues around functionality, additional retraumatisation and now fewer financial resources to draw upon, this is a death sentence for some. Such therapists are outright sociopathic, are well-aware of the consequences of their actions and should definitely spend a very long time in prison.
Applicant students, undergrads etc. absolutely need to be evaluated for suitability to practise psychotherapy. It's obvious enough that good grades aren't enough for this profession.
Really sorry about what happed to you. I pray that justice finds us all in the end.🙏
I had a therapist suggest going to church for support AFTER I told her I suffer from religious trauma and was in a cult. 🙅🏻♀️
Yeap.stay away from these churches no one has a license they make it seems like it's your fault smh
Hey I heard you’re allergic to peanuts. Don’t you worry I’ve got exactly what you need. Do you like crunchy or creamy?
Just unbelievable, there so many , including therapists I have experienced that I ending up with they retraumstiseres me, I get raely angry because of this..Can't people just understand what they not have knowledge about. I think they most have high thoughts about oneself... It is a red flag as well.
Facepalm😮
Your comment arrived hours ago. Church therapy is garbage. Religion is / adds mental illness
I've had a therapist offer sex for free therapy...unfortunately, it was a long time ago, before I realized that I didn't "deserve" that behavior. For many years, I thought I deserved all my trauma.. I guess because it started in my infancy ..THANK YOU BOTH for this video
I had a therapist that dismissed a bunch of my experiences. And was like “but you’re so resilient” yeah bish that resilience kept me alive but I’m struggling.
Years ago (maybe 1990s?) there was a prevailing thought that "children are resilient" so that when they 'went numb' after a traumatizing event, adults assumed that the children were "handling it well." Freezing up and going numb is not a healthy response...it's survival.
Fantastic discussion! Only thing is, when I used to trauma dump, it was not done intentionally. It was a cry for help that would snowball into me dumping all the reasons why I’m unable to operate like a normal person.
But now that I am able to help myself and have done years of good therapy, I am able to be that helping hand to myself whenever I get flashbacks. And all of a sudden, I no longer trauma dump, and able to understand that those memories are sensitive, private and timeless. They’ll always be there, and learning to connect with patience and kindness means a lifetime of peaceful co-existence with all parts of the self.
I had a therapist talk me in circles by saying either You're overthinking; You're not supposed to do anything; or Don't compare yourself to other people. So in response I'm chasing after these things thinking, He's leading me somewhere, to some realization, and when I reach that, we can finally begin. No matter what I wanted to talk about, he's suggesting I eat lettuce and walk barefoot in grass. After a year he says, "You're all over the place, caught in a spiral of overthinking." I say, "Yes, but it's not a spiral, I'm just trying to tell you about events in my life." And he said "Now you're Yes but-ing."
I thought he had been trying to start a dialogue, but he was basically saying, "We're not going to talk about anything you want."
Just stop thinking and your problems will be solved! Genus advice. 🙃
I feel this. I had a therapist who was a big fan of Eckhart Tolle, who essentially promotes “getting out of the mind” and views emotional pain as a product of the “ego.”
I think you’ve flagged something important here: when we’re going in endless circles and feeling that the therapist is not willing to disrupt their belief systems to pause and work with us to uncover our deeper issues, this indicates a dangerous dedication to an ideology that is not in the best interest of the human being the therapist is supposed to help.
@@80islandia I shared that here in hopes at least one person would recognize it when it's happening.
If I ask Google, "How do I find a more fulfilling job? Find a romantic partner? Feel closer to my family?" a lot of options pop up. I hired a therapist to narrow down these options and figure what's blocking me from getting there.
But my therapist essentially gaslighted me into thinking that these were extraordinary topics that I shouldn't be exploring in the first place.
I guess my experience of being refused therapy at 20yrs old because I was "too young to be depressed and had nothing to be depressed about" was better than 13 years of wasted time and bad therapy.
I had a therapist say this to me too, and she also said I should volunteer for a suicide hotline so I can listen to people with "real problems"
I was 12 when my mother died and my father demanded I fulfill her role after. In my thirties I went to see a therapist and her only reaction to that was to ask me if that was cultural in my country of origin. I just read books now.
Chilling.
@@vaska1999 Thank you for understanding.
I'm so sorry this happened
Those comments at the beginning are saddening. Sometimes it's just wild how much they don't want to hear us. I was sleeping 12h a day, spending whole days on the couch, my hair matted down and I was emotionally numb, unable to feel anything at all and the social worker as well as my dr both had their little narrative they created for me they decided to stick to and both said "it doesn't sound like you're depressed it just sounds like you're a little bit apathic from not working and have a lot of anxiety so get a freaking job and work on your anxiety and you'll be fine."
News flash if someone spends 5 years on their couch and have 0 will to do anything at all they're not "just a little apathic from not having a job" 🙃
Hey! I've pretended to study in college since 2016. I think I can relate. Though maybe not perfectly, since I've attended intensive courses during summers and passed a few, while with those that I failed I felt like I was doing my part but he teacher wasn't doing his.
Yes,I'm at 3.5 w the Pandemic..
Found a good video of Freud,bedrotting and how to get out of it.
No pun.
@@Liisa_011, which one and from whom?
@@Liisa_011, in case it is learned helplessness due to trauma, it is by definition not an instinct.
I had numerous bad therapists, mostly because I was misdiagnosed as being bipolar way back when. I suffered a date rape type of incident when I was 15; one therapist told me I was sick because I felt guilty about "liking it". Last session with him. Fortunately I found a great psychiatrist and therapist who correctly diagnosed me as having C-PTSD. I've been well for a while :-)
You didn't like it, your body just reacted on automatic to protect you, you disassociated. Also not all physiological reactions are wanted they just happen, like a man getting morning wood, they don't want it but it happens anyway. It took me a long time to understand this for myself too as a survivor. F*ck that therapist.
@@anz10 that was among my numerous other traumas including getting beaten up by my dad when I was 18. Thanks for the reply!
*YES please to recurring conversations between you!!!* 👏👏👏 This is such an important topic---thank you! I saw multiple therapists who offered only Easy Bake Ovens with the best intentions, but Patrick's channel and other trauma-savvy resources + corrective experiences IRL have been my culinary school!👩🍳Thanks for the humor as well! 😄
Thank you! I wonder how many therapists go into therapy work because THEY need it.
A lot! But it does not have to be a bad thing, as long as they go in therapy themselves at one point.
I've had the opposite, a young therapist who only had book-knowledge about depression. She went to work as an elephant in a porcelain-shop. "Breaking down barriers" without realising that all those walls had a function, and that breaking them to fast is _very_ dangerous.
I had a therapist that violated HEPPA law. She called my evil step monster and was cutting my appointments short every week to call EVS and discuss what happened in my appointment. When I called her out on this she gaslight me, using the same technique my evil step monster used and taught her. I should have run, but I stayed in therapy for several more months. When it became undeniable that she was violating HEPPA law months later, I stopped all appointments with her and filed a complaint with the patient advocate. The therapist denied all wrong doing. A month or two later she tried to get me to go back to therapy with her. I refused to go back to therapy with her. At some point in time my evil step monster called the therapist's supervisor to complain that the therapist wasn't doing her job and getting information for her any more. The therapist was asked to resign.
She "hoovered" you, eh? What a narc b-word.
Glad she got politely fired. That’s asshole behavior no matter how you look at it. I hope you have found some space for healing ❤
I had that happen. When both of then started screaming the same abuse at me at the same time in therapy, I shut down. I told the therapist what she wanted to hear. My mom loved that therapist because she told me that my mother was perfect and every problem that my mother had was my fault. She didn't get fired because I was under 18 and, in the state where I lived and at that time, there is nothing requiring client/patient confidentiality for a minor.
@@NameOfRain sorry that happened to you. I hope you are over 18 now and doing better.
True story, I went to a therapist as part of my worker's compensation, after being bullied at work. This therapist mostly to talked about herself, even talking about an overseas trip she did 30 years ago. During therapy, I mentioned that I thought the trauma at work was made worse by it retriggering the feelings of trauma I already had from childhood neglect/abuse. She barked at me that this therapy was to only be about workplace stuff (and her historic, boring holidays!). She never really asked about anything that had happened at work though. After about half a dozen sessions I was really done, everything seemed to be about her. She even said I am Autistic, but wouldn't hear anything that would contradict that. Bad experience!
*hugs* sorry you had such a terrible experience. Fortunately and unfortunately all at the same time, therapists are still humans. Some have done their own work, but a lot actually have not. It is beyond frustrating and I sincerely hope you have found someone who genuinely listens to you and holds space for you process your traumas. ❤
@@chelseabunker2391 Thanks, the experience didn't put me off therapy, although I found this particular therapist quite self absorbed.
So sorry. This now is a whole added on trauma you are dealing with.
I have encountered more than one that really bring their selfishness into the therapy sessions and the old me thought it must have been me. I know now that it was a triggering sort of experience all in itself. I've met two that I really grew to value but they were exceptions and I know how lucky I am to have found them.
Keep your search, keep your resolve and save your strength for you. You're brave and exceptional to have tried and recognized these things.🙏
OMG! You got a narcissist! They make every interaction turn out for their advantage. And the idea that you have needs that they are being paid for to address escapes them. SORRY, but it happened to me like a million times.
I had a counselor tell me that I cry too much so she couldn't help me.
The last one asked me at every single counseling session why I was suing my employer and he could not understand what I was getting out of it. After I pulled myself together I hung up and emailed him that I would no longer need his services.
Just curious, why were you suing your employer?
@@ryank6322probably wage theft. Therapist was probably worried OP would prioritize legal fees over the therapy ones
Please make a video: How to talk to people about your toxic family 🤔. I never ask people about their family, but many do. From my experience is better to lie than tell the truth. When you tell the truth you are badly hit with toxic shame, disbelieve and another toxic narrative, that you are the problem, not your family, which is obviously very bad and hurtful🤐
Omg I just went through this on Christmas. I spent this Christmas with my best friend and her family and relatives. And her brothers girlfriend asked me a question- I don't even remember what it was, but it was something about family- and I ended up over explaining and making myself look like an ass- she was like, "excuse me, I'm sorry, but I need to use the restroom" and never returned. I was embarrassed, but I was also proud of myself in a sense because I recognized the cues and realized what I was doing. It's like I don't want to tell people how toxic my mother is, because I feel like it makes me look bad- but I also don't want to lie. This was the first time in a while that I had over explained why my life is the way it is right now- and explaining why I went no contact. I think it happened because its such a difficult time of year. I'm generally pretty good at not going into the shit my mother has put me though.
There’s a huge contextual element to that discussion-it would be an interesting and nuanced video! It would be useful to differentiate between talking about one’s family vs. trauma dumping, which can have negative social consequences.
@@KaraKahn It is very hard try to stay true to yourself instead go easy way and lie 🤐 People ask questions but they don't want truth. They want picture perfect family story about lovely mom😤When they hear it they can not take it specially when mother is a toxic one! 😝 I can see this tendency to ower explain yourself becouse when we are kids no one believe us or hear us😞 Now is better to say: They are dead! It is easier. You get 2 min pitty party and they leave you alone 👌
@@artisticflower It would be, but general would be difficult to stay true to yourself and not talking about trauma and separate that form very toxic parent 🤔" I grow up with Narrcistic/psychopathic parent " that would be obvious there was abuse high levels manipulations and general toxicity, but I still find people oblivious to that like they living in la la land 😤 I see it is better to tell the truth in short sentences without over expline yourself and go to detalis. People are not ready to hear the truth even they think they are....
I've learned the best technique ever is to give a one word answer and immediately shoot the question back at them, like "And how was YOUR family Christmas!?" And then they get excited to talk about themselves and never notice I didn't really answer. Works EVERY TIME!!!!😅
When I was in my early 30s, a (female) therapist suggested that having a baby or 2 might help me “get over” my depression. Becoming a mother would give me “purpose.” This was out of the blue - and really upsetting!
Well tbf, it does give you a purpose! However... have kids with the wrong person and you're in for a level of depression previously unimaginable
That’s terrible! And invalidating… I’m so sorry
@@pisceananarchyvortex7223and wrong reason lol
Sounds like an Indian family, rather than a therapist. Terrible. Mine told me I should have been married and had kids by now, but it hadn't happened so we needed to work with where I was at.
@@pisceananarchyvortex7223This answer is incorrect.
I am so happy to watch this video. Nate and Patrick have had HUGE impacts on my healing journey and realizing how wrong and abusive my family was. They’ve given me so much validation and tools through a computer screen! Forever grateful. You’re changing lives!
I started therapy at 14, I'm 47 and just had my first breakthrough with attachment wounds. I showed up for healing over 30 years ago, my life could've been so different if I'd had this therapist years ago. I trusted that the professional knew what I needed.
I was baker-acted for a suicide attempt when I was in high school, coming from an abusive home, not wanting to live after I had a miscarriage. The therapist at the mental hospital mocked me for feeling so depressed over a miscarriage, saying she had one too and didn’t want to k*ll herself over it. And then she told my abusive parents !
I left that hospital to no home. My parents disowned me over this all and my life was flipped upside down for many years afterwards. I am terrified of therapy as much as I know I need it. But I’m terrified another therapist would disrespect me and void my trust , or worse, tell my secrets to another abuser
That is utterly outrageous. I hope you are okay now!
There are many abusers working in helping professions. MANY!!
That's a crime imo. 💔
I hope you filed a complaint with the hospital's patient advocacy/human resources department. You definitely weren't the first or last to be mistreated by them.
I have no words for this... you are an amazing and brave person to be still here, I hope you will find only people that will cherish you, your strength and your courage. You deserve every good thing in the world
Totally bull 💩! There definitely are shit therapists so keep your guard up till you trust them.
My advice is only tell them crap everyone knows at first. I'd tell them about the past T and read there reaction. For the "reason" to see the therapist during the first phone call say something super generic like "depression" and try to get a phone consult 1st.
Because of my past I struggle to trust and usually feel them out 9+ months before I drop anything huge. Also trust your gut. If after 3 sessions you just don't feel "right" try another. I waisted time by not leaving when all 3 appointments didn't feel right. Took my months of thinking it was me when infact my subconscious knew early on they weren't the right fit.
Depending on how sensitive you are to reading people just looking at there psychology today profile can give you an idea. I'm no psychic but a profile pic and few paragraphs can give me an idea of the person.
You deserve to find a good one and hopefully you do. Listen to your gut and start of telling them public knowledge issues before digging into bad crap. Take care and good luck!
Continuously being erased. That is exactly what it felt like.
My very first therapist listened to me pour out my circumstances, which at the time I didn't know qualified as CPTSD-inducing (it was 1997; I barely knew the word "trauma", let alone any subspecies of it), and then responded by opening with:
"You know what the problem with you is? You're too nice. The world of is full of assholes. You have to become an asshole to deal with other people. Our work will focus on making you into an asshole."
I never went back to that guy, and tearfully auditioned a few more *frankly alarming* therapist candidates before finding someone with whom I could actually work. What an opener though!
😮
What a wacko therapist, the world doesn't need any more assholes! 😂
I’ve heard that one too lol
I was told a similar thing by a therapist.
They basically admitted that they were an asshole and abusive.
Therapists have constantly counseled my father to "only focus on the good parts" of his abusive wife and to "take her as she is" and to help her because she "isn't capable of emotional connection" --- contributed to his choice to stay with a narcissistic abuser for decades. Faulty thinking from shit therapists stopped him from leaving so many times, and now he is almost as bad as she is --- he is fully trauma bonded and her biggest enabler and continues to gaslight his children. Couples therapists often have no fucking clue when it comes to abusive relationships, they think the goal is staying together at all costs, and often ask the abused to compromise and compartmentalize to continue enabling the abuser.
I agree- personally k ow of both parts of what you describe. There’s a smugness involved with this…
Therapist here. If the therapist knows that one of the partners is abusive, couples therapy should be terminated _immediately_, the abuser should be referred to work individually with another therapist, and the therapist can continue working with the other client or refer them, based on what the client wants. It is straight up unethical to do couples counseling in an abusive relationship. It is not possible to keep the victim safe, sessions may put the victim at an increased risk, and couples counseling relies on both parties working in good faith. Too many therapists aren't taught this. (I wasn’t, and I was in a top program.)
@@SuzannaLiessa thank you so much for your reply! i wish he had met an ethical therapist early on, he may have been more likely to change this for all of us if he had.
I wish more therapists were trained to recognize non-physical domestic violence, systemically abusive and narcissistic family systems, and complex trauma in general. Sometimes therapists side with abusers because the therapist isn't an ethical person, but sometimes i think they genuinely don't know how to recognize what abuse is.
@@imapandaperson Ironically enough, aside from trauma, I learned most of this as a victim, not a therapist.
About half the therapists out there don't know couples counseling is inappropriate for abusive relationships. Recognizing abusive relationships is another thing we're not taught.
I think a lot of therapists don't recognize that they are taking sides. They genuinely believe that you're the primary problem. Abusers are very charming, and they are good at triangulation. Triangulation means pulling in a third person to act as an ally. We get taught what triangulation is, but not the practical part - identifying it.
My therapist did her best to try and not take sides, but when my ex happily suggested we should try an open relationship in the throes of all our problems, she did nothing and apparently saw nothing wrong with it. Her theory was that she was giving therapy to "our relationship as if it was an entity/person" instead of to us as people. This allowed my ex to gaslight me, trash talk me to my therapist, and generally enabled her to do what she wanted. I don't think my therapist caught on until the very end that my partner was abusive and and by that time it was too late. She had let my partner drag me through dirt for months and I was basically coming apart at the seams. If it wasn't for my stubborn ability to fight against all odds, I wouldn't have had the courage to end things with the both of them and move on.
What an *extraordinary* podcast. Seriously. That is not flattery. I honestly could listen to the Nate and Patrick podcast again.
This one's getting bookmarked. Thank you BOTH for bringing so much valuable information and real-world experience of your own, to this space and sharing it with others so generously.
I was not expecting this gift of inspiration and motivation today. What a very pleasant surprise.
Don't let bad therapy/therapists truncate your healing journey, no matter what. ❤
Precisely!
Easier said than done
@@CMStrawbridge true, but not impossible. I know that once traumatized by a therapist, there's now even more compounded trauma and confusion. If you have someone you trust you can discuss with, it's helpful to be clear about the separation of the two. Please keep healing and don't give up ❤️
@@hopealivealways Right now I'm feeling so lost because apparently I've been only placated for the last several years in therapy, as I've really had no idea what to expect from it, so I've just had to trust them without any frame of reference. That alone is traumatizing to me in it's own way. The dynamic is too similar to my family- who all gaslit, manipulated, and eventually abandoned me. I've felt for a while like I go there just to be told I'm not doing as bad as I claim, but because they're polite and non-confrontational, I can't rightly stand up for myself. So my emotions have just been getting worse and bubbling under the surface as they keep telling me I'm fine, until I actually blew up at and fired my psychiatrist yesterday. My anxiety is still through the roof about it, and I can't stop kicking myself for allowing them to waste so much of my time when I knew deep down
@@CMStrawbridge I hear you and thank you for sharing. I am no licensed therapist myself but a survivor who can relate. It's a journey!
Our experiences mirror each other.
After five failed therapists I had to quit therapy and immerse myself in years of personal work (still ongoing).
My golden rule; walk away! When therapy becomes more damaging to you...walk away.
When therapy feels unsafe....walk away.
When you're not getting the help you need (internally you will have some guidance from within on what you need) ..... Walk away.
You have done right by you. "Talk" to your journal for now if you can. It's how I am dealing currently. I will be here if and when you need someone to talk to. For now focus on healing from being retraumatized by your fired therapist. Believe me it will pass. It is NOT your fault. ❤️
My first therapist wasn’t the best. He tried reverse psychology and hypnotherapy, he even diagnosed me with bipolar depression which was still incorrect. When I found my now therapist, I hit the jackpot and she has helped me figure out that I didn’t have bipolar depression but have a severe case of CPTSD.
same story as mine.
I highly recommend getting EMDR, as I too have cPTSD and it helped immensely.
So sorry you had to go through that. Similar for me as well. Would you mind sharing what caused your CPTSD? If you even know..
@@LoveAimshigh thank you for asking. And I have experienced narcissistic abuse from my entire family from both my mom side of the family and my father’s side of the family. I was emotionally neglected, and still am unfortunately and I had children with an addict who was also a narcissist. Along the way through adult hood, I have experienced sexual assaults, physical abuse, verbal abuse and mental abuse. Now that I come to think of it, it amazes me how I’m still standing and fighting for my freedom.
You are a piece of God, and God doesnt break down or cumble easily. Let rhw decils fall by their own faults. You are stronger than strong. Knowing your self worh without anyone to show n' tell you is a super power!
Psychedelics are just an exceptional mental health breakthrough. It's quite fascinating how effective they are against depression and anxiety. Saved my life.
Yes, dr.sporesss. I have the same experience with anxiety, depression, PTSD and addiction and Mushrooms definitely made a huge huge difference to why am clean today.
I wish they were readily available in my place.
Microdosing was my next plan of care for my husband. He is 59 & has so many mental health issues plus probable CTE & a TBI that left him in a coma 8 days. It's too late now I had to get a TPO as he's 6'6 300+ pound homicidal maniac.
He's constantly talking about killing someone.
He's violent. Anyone reading this Familiar w/ BPD know if it is common for an obsession with violence.
Yes he is. dr.sporesss
Microdosing helped me get out of the pit of my worst depressive episode, a three year long episode, enough to start working on my mental health.
Can Dr.sporesss send to me in UK?
"My intent is to control/have access to vulnerable people." Right on. I have known this for years about many so called "psychotherapists". Still, my now former "therapist", whom I fully trusted, fooled me through lies and gaslighting and weaponized my trauma history to launch a narcissistic attack when I was at my most vulnerable. Evil if you ask me.
Thanks so very much - really great and deeply needed video.
When I was pregnant with my youngest (14 years ago), I was in therapy. I refused to start meds while pregnant (birth defects due to meds had been on the news recently). The therapist told me that I was "damning my child for life" for refusing the meds ... That my depression would cause them to have severe depression their entire life ... Never went back.
Good for you, Mama! 👏 ❤
Without doubt all therapists should have their own therapy.......most are wounded healers......great video
Yes. I've had therapy by students who needed practice before they graduated because I didn't have health insurance, and this was free. So, I can hardly complain. But they had a supervisor. What made me leave eventually was that I repeatedly explained what my problems were and that I wanted some kind of treatment according to a plan that would lead to improvement (like: not freezing in an anxious state but getting to a place where I could take action on something). But what most did (some were better than others) was just maintenance, kind of, just being nice to me, made me decide what we were going to do for 50 minutes, and suggesting exercises for when I was anxious. One of them made me explain basic terms to them, too. A bit like the case at 21:00 in.These sessions were recorded for the supervisor, so I expected him to at least do something.
And they would repeatedly tell me that it was so good that I could talk about everything. So I'd tell them that I know what my problems are (I'm great at over analyzing and going on and on about it) and yet I can't get out of my negative thought/behavior patterns. I want help to move on with my life instead of feeling like I'm just struggling not to drown.
Society at large does not truly understand what trauma is or how it may show up in a person. From my observation, those that are certified/licensed as being trauma informed fall into either the minority of truly understanding what it means and really leverage their knowledge to help their client, or, they fall in the majority where it’s more of a check box item and are shortsighted in really grasping working, useful knowledge of what being trauma informed means. I am not a therapist of any kind, but I am a survivor of growing up in a narcissistic family system, narc abuse and domestic violence living everyday with managing my PTSD, CPTSD, anxiety and depression. I really have awareness of this trauma informed deficient, and through my own experience in needing help in seeking help itself, the aforementioned is the observations I see in the world.
-JLo
Had a therapist who immediately (as in the first session) rejected my suspicions of cPTSD (and I even emphasized the C), and the therapist said in that appointment that I wasnt hit enough by my father to qualify for PTSD. This was said without a full patient history; it was said twenty mins into our session. I did not ask if frequency or force was the true qualifying factor, as they had already proven themselves incompetent by their own biases. They completely ignored my use of the letter C. Complex. Requires digging into. Is subtle. Has nuance. Nope, just a single session is more than enough for a rejection of a fear.
I switched therapists within the same practice, and within a month, I had a brand-new autism diagnosis at age 35 because I finally found someone who would actually listen to their client, and they readily acknowledged that I likely have cPTSD from simply existing, much less all the bullying and parental mistakes that formed me along the way.
I had a therapist that told me feeling suicidal is just irrational, asked me if I was going to sue her because that’s what people with borderline do then said she didn’t even believe I had borderline. I walked out and never went back. She later text me an apology but I didn’t respond.
Should have sued lol. I had a therapist refuse me because abuse of borderline
I had a psychiatrist who prescribed SSRI’s for depression and then told me I didn’t need them. I had a super bad reaction to the dye and fillers in those SSRI’s, and told her about the symptoms I was experiencing and she told me I was making it up. She kept telling me, “I’m a MEDICAL doctor, not a therapist!”
I told her, “well, you suck at being a medical doctor. Maybe reconsider your profession because you’re awful at it.”
I thought I was the only person who ever experienced something like this. I was prescribed a medication I didn't need due to a misdiagnosis, and when I reacted very poorly to it I was told I was making it up for attention.
It’s honestly stunning to me just how many therapists are absolutely BLIND to attachment & relational dynamics, and the impact they have on the client’s nervous system. For all the talk of transference and counter transference in the therapy community, there is a dramatic lack of application and truly recognizing how this impacts the client and the session.
When it comes to childhood / family trauma, IMO the only people who can really help you are those who have also been through it and found healing for themselves.
I try to imagine myself as a 'regular person' listening to my stories about my childhood...I would probably not believe me, either, if I hadn't been there and lived it. How could such a 'nice' middle-class 'good church-going Christian' family treat anyone that way??
I'm telling you, both me and the man I loved more than life itself were horrifyingly abused by 'good, loving Christian' parents who were only trying to 'teach, guide and help' us.
He never found healing and died at age 53. I just started my healing journey at age 52, after years of looking for answers everywhere I could, including AA and Adult Children of Alcoholics...none of which ever made to the heart of the issue.
@@Hawaiiansky11religion=mental illness
Got several years of therapy and got little recovery. Went through social work school and a teacher told me I lied, when i wrote about my trauma.🤔 I dont remember seeing that teacher throughout my childhood for her to be so sure my trauma is not possible.
I got more recovery and learned how to be the best SW I can be, attending a 12 step program, doing bibliotherapy, attending as many trainings as I can, keep learning from my loving clients and from having coaching sessions. Thank you guys for this video.
For years I had a therapist that refused to talk about any of the lifetime and ongoing abuse. She would get a cup of coffee and put her feet up on the couch I was on and wanted to chit chat. Whenever I might say something like today something happened and it bothered me so much because it reminded me of some trauma in the past she would say let’s keep this in the present. It was in my present! If I said something someone did to abuse me she would say “figuring out whatever named person would be interesting but let’s stick with you “.
Eventually she like my other abusers taught me to just go in and please her and leave. I got nothing from it
@@ourtravelingzoo3740 This!!! "taught me to just go in and please her and leave". I could never really articulate how I felt with my last therapist. Wow
My therapist reacted and asked me what's the point of having done so many sessions when I told her in a recent session I had suicidal thoughts. I felt too humiliated and unsafe at the moment to confront her (partially because of the power dynamic) and have been feeling scared to go back to see her again.
when i told my old therapist i was being SA'd at home by my dad and i wanted him to go to jail because it had been 13 years of daily abuse, She said to me it was wrong to be angry and i had to forgive my rapist otherwise ill be as bad as him. yeah.
I'm so sorry you went through all that.
@@janny474 its okay im far away from him now, no contact with him or his parents and i even have a different legal name. im struggling but im the best ive ever been. im 17 now and havent seen him in 3 years
That’s secondary trauma. If you’d said you wanted him dead, it would have been totally understandable.
They should not still have their license!
@@chrish564 agreed it’s mind boggling even at the level of common human decency
My son has a therapy session at age 12 which I sat in on. He had an empty plastic pop bottle he was holding and gently tapping on his opposite hand while he was telling the therapist his story. The therapist grabbed the bottle and yelled at him to stop and told him what he was doing was disrespectful.
He shut down and asked to leave.
Good lord, that's awful. I'm so sorry. Sometimes people fidget and stim when they are nervous, and the therapist should've understood that.
You would think.
So, sorry. Sounds like my not nice kindergarten teacher. He seems like he was just stimming by tapping. Hope you tell him it was okay. Maybe another therapist ??? 💞💙🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I did tell him it was okay and he did nothing wrong. It opened our eyes to the importance of therapist/patient connection. We finally found a wonderful therapist that he loved and connected to.
Yikes 🙄
So true, one of the therapists I tried treated me like I was entertainment...she literally would get out a snack and watch me talk as if I were a tv show while eating her popcorn or whatever snack she brought that time! I stopped going after the 2nd or 3rd visit and then she harrassed me by phone several times trying to get me to come back!! Horrible.
What a terrible therapist!
went to an "experienced" therapist after going to 2 younglings because i thought maybe i need someone more seasoned to get me through the pain of my father passing away hardly two months ago. she went straight into some sort of imaginary therapy, asking me to imagine my dad standing over his dead body and making me explain to him that he's no longer alive. and it was just the first session with her mind you. i was unfortunately too shocked about the whole situation to say anything and went through the whole process instead of telling her to f off. i came out much more traumatized and it was just money down the drain. my current therapist seems to be better and personally motivated to genuinely help people
I was trying to tell an old therapist about my maladaptive day dreaming and she was like oh, you just have a big imagination. I thought well, not a lot of people have heard of it so I guess she hasn't either. Wish I didn't know more than a therapist though.
My therapist said to my partner who was also seeing her that I have borderline mental disorder and asked him if he was ready to deal with me or should just leave. She never said that to me. And that partner was actually cheating on me, but she didn't believe me, she believed him. When he told me one time during the fight that she said that about me, that I am unstable and ill that's when I left them both. And I finally started to have good relationships after that.
And as two speakers pointed out correctly, in the process of the therapy you rarely realize that something is wrong. So in aftermath I realized she's been doing that for me for years. When I was going through break up cause my fiancee left me for another woman, she told me "you can cry so it is more easier for you, he is the one who feels really bad".
My mom took me to therapy for my insomnia caused by the fear that "something was going to get me" like scared of a boogie man, but I was 12-13 so it was odd, it was a therapist recomended by the church we went to tho. And after I explained to this full grown man, that when bedtime rolls around my anxiety spikes and I literally am convinced thats the night I'm gonna die, this man tells me that god wouldnt let that happen, and when I get anxious I should pray and my faith in god will chase the bad thoughts away. And he said this cheerfully, he was super nice about it, but it still made things worse, cause now I also felt guilty that I wasnt calmed by the prayers, that it was because I had more faith in my fear than god. 13 years later I learn that childhood insomnia is often caused by emotional complicated pain going on in their waking life, like bullying, emotional abuse by a parent, etc, and things made so much sense, I literally cried because I realized all that good intentioned therapist needed to do was take a look at what my homelife was like, ask me how the people im supposed to trust are treating me. It was so simple.
I found a trauma therapist who uses EMDR, it is the first time in my life that has begun to help.
Happy to hear it works! I had the problem that a couldn't focus on "a traumatic event". My life is a trauma-soup. Wish I could, because I hear great things about EMDR.
Best therapist I ever had was the one who FINALLY did EMDR with me. I've noticed, tho, that I practically have to beg therapists to do it. They don't like to. They want to curl up with tea and listen - that's the ideal, and it's not helpful to most trauma survivors.
Dude. I just fired a psychiatrist within the first ten minutes of the first session because he told me to look on the bright side of my sister being diagnosed with Addisons and my grandpa having late stage Parkinson’s. Both of his parents died from it. And all four of their parents.
There’s absolutely no way I’m not going to have it. I already have shaky hands, and I broke my ankle standing in one place and not moving a few months ago.
I had barely started telling him about everything going on. All the other people who are sick or dying. All the stuff going on in both my work and personal life. The severe depression and trauma I’m working through.
And the worst. I hadn’t gotten to the point of telling him that I had just found out that my father was drugging and raping me and made my brother watch and participate. All the way through my teens and early 20s.
And then he told me that me being uncomfortable with face to face interaction, or verbal communication. I don’t like it. It makes me anxious and I don’t want to do it. I it makes my skin feel too tight and my heart feel like it’s going to stop. It makes me feel gross. I don’t wanna speak.
He told me I need to just get over it and do it because that’s not how society works.
Not professional in the least! I'd report them for sure. They're not untouchable. Give yourself credit for trying, even if THEY are the failures.
I'm sorry you dealt with that, btw. F**king disgusted. I'd question them even having a real license!
Appalling!
That's horrible. You might want to get assessed for ASD.
@@jennw6809 thank you, but it’s a trauma response, and antisocial personality disorder.
So i have a question for you: should there be 'therapy testers'?
For places that serve alcohol there are people who are hired to go in with bad ID to try and illegally purchase alcohol, and if they succeed then the place is fined and marked for review.
Should there be something similar in the therapy field where a trained individual goes to a therapist and if they act in the ways listed above, then they are fined and unable to work until they've had further training?
This is an amazing idea! It could save a lot of people from being harmed by those who should be helping.
@@rainbowconnected Thank you!
A sort of mystery shopper for therapy. Good idea!
@@TinkerTaylor-zv1ml Thank you!
Clients who have had experiences with therapists where unethical and harmful behavior has occurred (I’m not talking about therapists who were a bad fit or personality mismatch, but who engaged in really egregious, harmful, dangerous behavior) have recourse by filing a complaint to the state board that provided the license for that professional to practice. The incident is then investigated and reviewed by the board. If, after investigation, the board determines the complaint has merit, that therapist could have their license suspended or revoked.
I just want to say that just as there are bad therapists out there, there are also people who actively seek out therapy professionals to get them fired or their license suspended or revoked, when the therapist did nothing wrong. This happens a lot where child custody, divorce, or domestic violence is involved; or if the therapist is ethical and transitions the client out to terminate the therapeutic alliance with a client who is obsessed with them, or otherwise intends to harm the therapist. I am aware of both sides of that coin and any complaint being made should be entered into truthfully and soberly, as it can adversely affect someone’s livelihood and take a *good* therapist out of practice for no good reason.
Someone above talked about a therapist who had asked for copies of this client’s prior records. I personally would not do that; the therapist who asked for that information, however, could have been burned by a former client who made it their mission to flood their state board with complaints so therapists’ licenses get suspended or revoked. Seeing prior records could have helped that therapist decide whether they felt they could safely enter into a therapeutic relationship with that client, or if they would need to be referred elsewhere. (A free 15 minute phone call to assess goodness of fit would have been the better choice, IMHO.) This actually happened to a colleague I know who had been in practice for 18 years with a clean record and no previous complaints, ever. Even though the Board agreed that he had not done anything egregious and that the client likely lied about/embellished the majority of the accusation, they still suspended his license for two years and he had to undergo supervision during that time. And it is on his record permanently, even though he is no longer under suspension or supervision, and is free to practice again.
It is because of what happened to him that I am considering going to law school to provide counsel for therapists who have been abused and/or unfairly/falsely accused by their clients.
SO spot on! “They have the degree, but not healthy boundaries.”
My first therapist told me I didnt haven't that bad growing up, but never talked about my childhood, but instead focused on how I should shave my legs, and wear make up, and stop hiding behind my glasses, choose to learn something new everyday. 🙄 the day he told me i didnt have that bad as a child was the day i decided i couldnt see him anymore.
Hello i just wanted to say thank you so much for making this content ❤️
I come from moscow russia and i have several psychological disorders such as OCD, depression, social anxiety, and autism and your videos really helped me to get into therapy and change myself so i can feel better mentally. Good luck with your channel growth!
Привет земляку :) тоже смотрю Патрика. Желаю, что в России такого специалиста сложно найти, у нас и про КПТСР то недавно только заговорили...
Привет! Да, у нас конечно с ресурсами не очень. Хотел кстати спросить, ни у кого не получилось найти в Москве или онлайн хорошую групповую терапию близкую по духу к RRP Патрика?
Thank you! I had a "trauma therapist" doing isf and inner child work with me without any stabilization. I got ptsd from being sa as a child. It retraumatized me immensely. She also didn't want to switch methods to emotional regulation or learning to regulate our nervoussytem. Because she knew nothing about it. She didn't even properly knew fight, flight, freeze, fawn.
I went into shutdown during therapy and had emotional flatlining or anhedonia after this. I felt either nothing or anxiety, panic. Then she blamed me for the method not working and basically threw me out... Yeah I was there for about a year. Did lots of damage. I believe inner child work is good, but you need to be stable enough for that, because you fet confronted with a lot of stuff. I relived the feeling of my own s3xual abus3 over and over again in therapy until it almost destroyed me.
I am so sorry ❤. That therapist does not sound well trained at all. Many therapists have supervision. This one REALLY needed supervision ☹️
@@Star-dj1kw Even a supervisor can miss that kind of stuff, in my opinion the system as it is it's not working well. The supervisor gets only the therapists' point of view.. not his or hers client..
That sounds horrible. Did you eventually find ways to regulate? (I’m still not sure if I have enough regulation skills or not. How does one know? 🤷♀️)
I am so sorry that you went through that and then had it made worse by someone whose job it is to help you heal. She failed miserably. The best therapists I've had have done many, many sessions just building up resources and helping learn to regulate the nervous system before ever diving into anything intense. If you ever want to try therapy again, I'd highly recommend either somatic experiencing or brainspotting. I've been really impressed by the latter. It seems to be more client directed instead of just forcing the person to bring up the worst trauma. I've been able to work through way more difficult experiences without getting lost in it and feeling worse after, which is what happened with other modalities. I hope you find a path to healing that works for you 💗
Great conversation. I'm so grateful to hear this being called out. University masters don't make a good therapist... I feel there needs to be a more humanistic approach ❤
I appreciate Nate's statement to the effect that he'd always be in therapy. I'm 73, dealing with what is now called CPTSD. I've had several therapists over the years. Thankfully was working with one when my brother, equally damaged, was murdered by someone who took his own gun away from him and killed him with it. And other things.
I have an excellent therapist now, who says that treatment is very different now. He, too, is older, and has been in practice for over 50 years. He is not himself a trauma survivor. But he is wise and experienced. He knows when to offer tools, and when to just simply be with me. I don't have to take care of him, I can just do the work.
It's hard to think that I'll always need some sort of therapy or at least deep support. But honestly, it is integral to staying alive. It's just too much for less deep relationships to carry.
Thank you so much for that. I am glad you have an effective therapist, who knows 'when to just simply be with' you. I am 68 and your last paragraph really resonated with me.
28:36 I see that so often too. Ocean full of powerful messages about vivid childhood experiences and then the estranged parent going “Well did you ever think about me and MY feelings?”
Every , every attempt to express what I needed to them never got past 2 thoughtful sentences by me and interrupted by that b.s.
So I never tried as a kid, and now stopped trying.
My husband and I were going to therapy separately as we were considering divorce. Later I found out that my therapist and his was talking together and sharing information they set me up to enter his session alone and tell him I wanted a divorce. He and his therapist ganged up on me. She acted like it was a surprise when it was their plan. I was hysterically bawling and she excused me. I could hardly drive I was so crying
you should report the therapist to the board if that is an option were you live
Yeah report. Without asking you for permission and having you SIGN a release I think that's breaking HIPAA if you are in the USA.
I was in a very abusive marriage and my therapist at the time said multiple times "you wouldn't actually leave him" and "someone always gets hurt in divorce." At the time, I didn't know any better so I was with her for like 8 or 9 years.
Yep I was with a therapist for 10 years who kept trying to get me to be nicer to my abusive husband. You can't make this stuff up.
So glad to see this conversation make it to it's own video. It's a good one!!
Wow, thank you so much for saying that therapy might not be the right thing for everyone, and that people might find other ways to heal.
Oh my gosh, and also, thank you so much for challenging the idea that broadcasting your traumatic story is inherently empowering. This is such a widespread idea, and it bothers me so much!