Elder Ballard's Visit to My LDS Mission - Kelly Laing
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- Опубликовано: 3 сен 2021
- Mormon Stories Podcast guest, Kelly Laing, shares an experience from his mission when Elder M. Russel Ballard visited his mission and shared an intense message. Kelly also opens up about being over-worked as a Mormon missionary, and the affect that it had on him.
This excerpt is from Mormon Stories episode 1466 - “Mormon Nuclear Submarine Commander & His Family - Kelly and Heather Laing Pt. 1”
The full interview can be found at: • Mormon Nuclear Submari...
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Elder christofferson visited my mission and he went around the room asking what callings our fathers held and It felt so shaming to hear the comparison of missionaries father's callings. Some being bishops and stake presidents and others like my own father being normal members with as intended less important callings. I remember feeling ashamed of my father's calling not being important. I look back at it now and my father Is just as good as any bishop or stake president if not better.
Terrible.
I remember being ashamed that my dad was never called to be a bishop. Looking back it was because he was a blue collar man, on his second marriage and didn't serve a mission. My father was a great man, but he just wasn't cookie cutter mormon bishop material. I know he always carried shame for not serving a mission but his life was very different than TBM mormons.
I can confirm that Christofferson is a terrible person
It's the old one-upsmanship game that's played in every ward. Every week it's a contest of, "Who's the most Righteous Today?" Joseph & Mary went to Bethlehem to be taxed, but you can go to the ward to be judged.
@@jonbaker476 D Todd is who they trotted out to defend the November policy, because the Brethren knew that people knew he had a gay brother.
I believe that it is healthier to never base your self-esteem on the beliefs and negative opinions of others in society, and especially in the Mormon church. Do not let others devalue you.
At about 14-15 months of my mission depression hit me hard as well, but my mission president said he did not want to hear about missionaries being depressed. I still called him, and he hung up on me and would not answer the phone. Today I am treated for clinical depression with multiple medications and therapy.
The biggest fallacy about mission rules is that you have to obey them to have success. I can tell you firsthand that my greatest success in my mission was when the only rule I didn’t break, was go on a date. But every other rule I literally broke, including skipping mission boundaries. And my companion was my partner in “crime“. And everyone knew what a bunch of goof offs we were. The district leaders, the zone leaders, and the assistants to the president could not understand how and why we were so successful, being so “disobedient.” And it’s not that we set out to break the rules intentionally. We were just being ourselves; We were who we were before we went out.
Maybe just being yourself made your personality shine and people wanted to be around you more and listen to what you had to say?
you sell the business well with your natural ability and style without doing the pre recorded self indoctrinated robot format style of the corporation and not relying much on the cult of personality fever.
Yeah man thats called letting your light so shine...those who know don't say. Shhhh. The first thing i would do with my greenies was take out the white bible and then tell them look man it bends, and bend the white bible. That set the tone for my companionships, i remember a family i had was all into wwf the rock. We would go over with no intention of teaching just chilling, hanging with the "targets" i think u just need to strike a balance man moderation in all things. The church has to teach young men how to sell the gospel because most have not been sold on the gospel. As evidenced by this chat room. They put down the rules cause boys not sold on the gospel dont know their place in the kingdom of god. Thats why for the most part sisters destroy the elders because they posess somthing were still trying to learn genuine faith, genuine love, then they are obedient. Each blessing is predicated upon the law given to it love is obedience and sacrifice. Obedience and sacrifice is not love. If that makes sense. Elders have it all ass backwards. Go and do dont do and go. Thats what i saw on my mission anyways some of the most apostate elders had the most success because they were themselves and they genuinely loved the people, now i would draw a line somewhere tho because light has a border wherever darkness is. You can go too far, and you may get away with it the wheat and tares grow together till the harvest and God can clearly see what we are. You know joseph gave the parable about the hunter and the strung bow and that he had to let loose or his mind would lose its power its punch, and always remember adam fell that men might be and men are that they might have joy. If you get all caught up in the letter of the law your gonna miss the spirit by which it was given, and if ye have not the spirit ye shall not teach.
And I bet with all that rule breaking, if you baptized 10 people per month they'd look the other way.
By the end of my mission I realized that the number of discussions and baptisms had zero correlation to adherence to the white handbook. Zero.
As long as the "anointed" ones can maintain that aura of moral, spiritual, and / or intellectual superiority . . . they can keep things just the way they want them.
These 19 yo missionaries are very much children in some ways. Imagine if you talked to your child like this. It would break them.
We had a 70 come to our mission and yelled at the President in front of the entire mission and told him he was doing transfers wrong. He told him that when we had receiving inspiration for transfer he should always do the first thought that came into his mind and put everybody in leadership roles. I felt like after that transfers actually got worse. Numbers got worse and you had missionaries who weren’t good being put as ZLs and stuff. Really made me question that revelation. Now looking back I Know it wasn’t inspired at all.
Ballard's son was in my mission (Osaka Japan) and he visited us often. Lots of arrogance is what I always remember. I'm looking forward to hearing this!
Define "arrogance".
@Alexander Hendry I'm assuming they meant Elder Ballard was arrogant.
Which Ballard was arrogant?
Yeah, but these children of GAs have a good shot at being GAs themselves, and never having to worry about money ever again in their lives.
If you want to ride high in "the Church," you best be careful who you're related to. If you have a parent who's a general authority, your odds for success in "the Church" are very good indeed.
We Need more of this . I would to hear more about Bednar and other people who visit . I remember many TBMs talking about how arrogant and Bednar was when he visited my stake
@@alexanderv7702 True Believing Mormon
@@mindeloman thankyou
Bednar approached my two year old in our yard while visiting a higher up neighbor. Bednar said, " what a cute little boy" and my son flicked him the middle finger. I knew we weren't going to make it in this church 😂. Now, I'm glad he did it. He's grown and a no nonsense guy.
I'm glad more and more people are leaving this organization.
It was because of stuff like this that I think I had anxiety for 18-20 months on my mission, and only when I began to be less strict about the rules did it become less bearable. And my mission president said that if we were exactly obedient we would reach our numbers and see miracles, but after a long time I asked him why I wasn’t seeing miracles or reaching my numbers even though I was being as obedient as possible, and he said that no one, general authority or otherwise, had ever promised that being obedient would bring miracles to help us meet our goals. After I decided to be less strict about the rules that’s when we began to reach our goals, funny how that works.
It’s traumatic to never feel “clean”, “forgiven”, and/or “worthy”. This was my primary experience in “The Church”. This and toxic positivity claim so much of your mental health.
I remember one or two of the 15 visited us on my mission and spoke to us (all missionaries in two or three missions) in a session of a regional conference. I don’t remember anything other than it happened. I know it wasn’t the memorable experience I was led to expect. I heard that Holland visited a mission a friend was in and, apparently, ranted and raved at them all for the same things mentioned here.
Had my best time as a Missionary listening to the Spirit of the Law. Love. Had a Blast and met some fine people. Drove my Prez crazy.
These missionaries are just like sales people, they're expected to find their quota of new clients so that the church can secure its flow of money
Absolutely 💯
I forget now which source I got the numbers from, I think it was a book about LDS/Mormonism researched and written by a Lutheran author. If so, then I've read it sometime around 2015, and it was obviously published before that so numbers are somewhat old. It stated that LDS cost per convert is ca. $16K, while 7th Day Adventists is ca. $30. Of course, we all know that LDS families foot the bill of missions and LDS most likely even earns money on the whole thing. That cost comparison confirmed to me that LDS missions are not so much about getting converts (obviously, they do want that too), but more about solidifying the LDS membership of the missionaries themselves. The irony is that we now know that the mission experience for the present day kids often adds to their shelf breaking (just like 1st time temple experience). So the GAs harping on the missionaries are shooting themselves in the foot. No converts, and you lose members who've been indoctrinated for years, are literally the future base of the organization. All just down the drain. LDS is paradoxically working hard on its own undoing. It is just a matter of time.
Thank God I didn't experience this in my mission. Elder Monson visited us and we had no experience similar to this
On my mission I met two GAs. Was not impressed at all. The stake president back home was more inspired, more charismatic, more empathic, more loving, and way more understanding. Neither one of them hollered at us, though. The presentations they made were nothing more than enthusiastic boilerplate (the first one) and just-plain-boring (the second one). There was absolutely nothing about either man or speech I found motivational or inspirational. When I told my Father this (he started his business career as an attorney in SLC who know many of the then-GAs), he chuckled and told me I had discovered a secret best kept to myself. My Dad told me Ballard sold used cars. To me, that was enough said.
Yeah, but those GAs are very well connected, and don't have to every worry about money again if they just don't stray from the party line. Yes, every one chosen and hand-picked by deity for sure, right? Uh huh, and the Tooth Fairy will pay your mortgage, too.
@@joetaylor8687 Exactly. It’s really despicable.
Loren C. Dunn visited my mission at a Christmas conference. He spent most of the time talking about what kind of clothing missionaries should and shouldn't be wearing and shamed the elders if any of us had bright colored ties...like yellow or orange. The sisters got shamed if they didn't practically dress like polygamists. We had "Wilford Woodruff month"..... which meant instead of tracting 40 hours a week, we were expected to tract 80 hours a week.
wow! powerful discussion.
I forget now which source I got the numbers from, I think it was a book about LDS/Mormonism researched and written by a Lutheran author. If so, then I've read it sometime around 2015, and it was obviously published before that so numbers are somewhat old. It stated that LDS cost per convert is ca. $16K, while 7th Day Adventists is ca. $30. Of course, we all know that LDS families foot the bill of missions and LDS most likely even earns money on the whole thing. That cost comparison confirmed to me that LDS missions are not so much about getting converts (obviously, they do want that too), but more about solidifying the LDS membership of the missionaries themselves. The irony is that we now know that the mission experience for the present day kids often adds to their shelf breaking (just like 1st time temple experience). So the GAs harping on the missionaries are shooting themselves in the foot. No converts, and you lose members who've been indoctrinated for years, are literally the future base of the organization. All just down the drain. LDS is paradoxically working hard on its own undoing. It is just a matter of time.
Edit: Quick search brought up David Stewarts "Law of the Harvest". Not the book I've read, but might be where this number comes from.
"With fewer than five baptisms per LDS missionary per year and world convert retention rates near 25 percent, making a single retained convert requires on average nearly eleven months of full-time missionary labor and nearly $5,000 in missionary support fund money, in addition to other mission overhead. If we are to assume very conservatively that missionary time is worth just $5 per hour, which is below U.S. minimum wage and far below the immeasurable spiritual value of missionary time, the total value of the time and money to find a single retained convert exceeds $16,000."
Per the question at 3:10 and the answer from the returned missionary in this video, I can testify that many missionaries assigned to the same L.D.S. mission as me (on the other side of the world in an earlier decade) had guilt feelings (to the point of genuine tears) when "the mission" (that is, the missionaries assigned to that mission) did not achieve its group goal of an arbitrary number of new converts (baptisms) per month.
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Aside:
I became a fast fan of host John D. when I watched a podcast wherein he described his experience as a full time missionary that mirrored my own.
In that podcast John D. described the pressure from the mission president to achieve a monthly quota of baptisms (that is, "make the numbers" as he says in this video).
In my first area, my branch of about 200 members had less than 10 active members when I arrived.
By the end of the first month, I resigned as a missionary because I felt the mission president could care less if I lived or d *ied as a missionary. I will explain.
When my companion and I were nearly killed in a freak accident, that mission president said (possibly joked) that [1.] It didn't matter if I d *ied because there were more missionaries coming from the missionary training center next month than he had space for in apartments thus far rented.
When I asked the mission president if he was joking, he only added that [2.], statistically speaking, some L.D.S. missionaries were going to d *ie in service simply because there were so many L.D.S. missionaries in service.
I was a popular missionary among the local people (including non-members, inactive members, and active members). Mostly all I did was listen to people's problems, and they appreciated me for listening. My companion baptized two investigators that month so we met our quota.
I resigned from the mission that night, and left the country the next day to return to my home country.
Here are two excerpts from the song, "Live and let d *ie" by Paul McCartney and Wings.
"When you're young, and your heart is an open book,
they used to say live and let live ."
[...]
"What's it matter to you,
when you got a job to do.
You got do it well.
You've got to give it everything you have!"
Elder Ballard was unbelievably uninspired in our mission meeting that we had with him clear back in 79. He grabbed the two missionaries that were the most but kissing of any of them that did not do very much work, if they went to the mall and had somebody a pamphlet that countered is an hour of tracting. And they were a joke in the mission. Of course Elder Ballard called them up and said all of you need to be more like these missionaries. All because they had the highest numbers. We had high numbers cuz we were all lying. He says that it was our unworthiness that we were not getting baptisms so it sounds like his same old thing then it changed over the years.
So boring! Such a monotone
I’m not Mormon but when I hear these Mormon mission stories I can’t help but wonder if the real goal of missions were to solidify the indoctrination of these young missionary men instead of actually baptize new members
I forget now which source I got the numbers from, I think it was a book about LDS/Mormonism researched and written by a Lutheran author. If so, then I've read it sometime around 2015, and it was obviously published before that so numbers are somewhat old. It stated that LDS cost per convert is ca. $16K, while 7th Day Adventists is ca. $30. Of course, we all know that LDS families foot the bill of missions and LDS most likely even earns money on the whole thing. That cost comparison confirmed to me that LDS missions are not so much about getting converts (obviously, they do want that too), but more about solidifying the LDS membership of the missionaries themselves. The irony is that we now know that the mission experience for the present day kids often adds to their shelf breaking (just like 1st time temple experience). So the GAs harping on the missionaries are shooting themselves in the foot. No converts, and you lose members who've been indoctrinated for years, are literally the future base of the organization. All just down the drain. LDS is paradoxically working hard on its own undoing. It is just a matter of time.
I'd venture to guess that 98-99% of missionaries are out there purely due to social pressure . . . from parents, grandparents, girlfriends, girlfriends' parents, friends, ward members, etc. , and not because they're actually convinced or converted to anything besides people jumping up every month and declaring what they "know" to be true.
I too felt my baptism #'s were contingent on my worthiness. I served in Rio Brazil. Women everywhere!
💔🥺oh my this is so sad. I would have never survived that kind of treatment.
Many didn't
Strict obedience is central to this religion. “Obey the commandments. Listen only to the Brethren on everything. Don’t ask too many questions. Don’t do your own research or investigation on anything in the past.” This rigorous program can directly cause compulsions that kill. Without the obedience, we end up floundering. It doesn’t mean this compulsive lifestyle is the solution. The compulsive lifestyle could actually make things more complicated.
I never wanted to do a mission but had pressure to do a service mission.
Sounds like a younger Elder Ballard. He was at a stake conference years ago and apparently chewed out the bishops and stake leaders about some matter.
Umm hmmm thats what i thought when i heard it. I bet it would break his heart to find out this story and how some of his actions have negatively effected an individuals testimony. I just always try to remember they are men and men in a position i would never want to be in.
Did you go the England London South Mission? He did the exact same thing there in 1990!
I endured hours of vidio tapes my himbin mtc. My missionary president was/is my hero Picture a Spanish speaking yoda. I saw this kind of teaching from young zone leaders but not from above. I did have a mission prep class at BYU from grant Von Harrison I later learned that his paper back books had become “banned” on other missions Even the title if his books were opressive “every missionary can baptize” And “drawing on the powers of heaven”
Yes this attitude was rampant It was mostly promoted by weak youn zone leaders. I got none of this from my president. Personally I became much happier when I chose to turn in brutally honest statistics, know there was little chance of leadership, be the best senior I knew how, sleep the siesta , and go on.
My advice to my son will be to “ hike your own hike”
Elder Ballard was just hyping up a typical Elders Quorum meeting
Oh yeah my mission was a terrible experience the first half due to this crap. I was even pressured by the President into baptizing a pedo. I ended up crying in secret to the 2nd counselor of the ward at the time. I was in Tandil Argentina. But the second pres was super cool and spiritual. He also opened up to me and some other zone leaders once about his experiences with the apostles, and he was super straight about it and needed to vent or something. Apparently, other than Nelson, Uchdorf, and Anderson (who was the kindest of the three), all the other apostles were absolute assholes. They'd scream at him on the phone, use intense shaming tactics, they'd threaten him, etc. "Where's the numbers?!? Where's the numbers!?!" He said Bednar and Christofferson were some of the worst people he'd met
Bednar comes from the world of business. Christofferson comes from law.
Elder Ballard dedicated by chapel back in 2007.
Joseph Smith once openly chastised Brigham Young in front of the bros, and the bros were waiting for Brigham to defend himself but all he said was bro what do you want me to do (not exactly in those words).
same here...
Or, dismal success in a mission could possibly be because you're working in an area where people aren't quite so naive, gullible, and delusional . . . and may even be studying things looking for actual evidence and facts instead of high-minded ethereal fluff which doesn't square with actual reality.
Some of the best missionaries were the ones who actually had a normal life back home. This life included lots of sin, followed by a strong conversion experience. How are you supposed to preach the gospel to others and talk about rules of the church if you haven't experienced the ups and downs of life. Those missionaries were better because they had to fight for their testimony and turn their back on sin.
Most of those "sins" weren't actual bad actions though. Just what religions call bad.
@@miguelthealpaca8971 Mostly fornication, drugs and booze. So I guess it was mostly church rules.
RE. The guilt trip of missionaries failing to do something that leads to low numbers. This is common on many missions. When it becomes a numbers game there is a temptation to do hamburger or swimming pool baptisms. The fact is some missions baptize more people. Some South American countries do better since whole families join the church. Other parts of the world it tends to be single adults who join. I have known people who had zero baptisms on their mission. That was despite working very hard each day. If you are sent to a historically atheist country or a nation with 90% Catholics it will be hard to get any investigators, let alone baptisms.
If people has internet and free info on mormonism it is the death of the Cult.
Well, so what does this person do now that he does not follow the rules?
victims of a phony theology.
tala ule's
We had a few apostles come to my mission in nyc before 9/11. They were saying that the lord was about to soften the hearts of the people. Idk. Pretty nutty. Side: Only anal elders respond to these kind of messages, not well adjusted ones. This guy right here is as excitable in tearing down the church as he was in building it up. Relax bro its only the immortality and eternal life of man at stake. Christ has already won spread the good news thats all u need to do. I never hit my numbers, i loved and served the people, laughed and cried with them the only number that matters is one. Then again i never made zone leader, or district leader where your heart is there also shall be your treasure. For all you number crunchers i had 10 souls come unto christ which from what i understand is a good number for the city that never sleeps. 🤷♂️
Wow - He's STILL making an issue of this even more than several decades after the fact. Learn how to grow the hell up -
What a sad video. Let go of your victim mindset and be grateful for the amazing things your mission may have taught you.
I don't believe this story. Why is it that millions of us have never had these unusual experiences? Maybe the natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit of God because they are foolishness unto him.