I feel like having imperfect dialogue makes a film feel more realistic. Nobody says everything perfectly or for a reason. Saying something random or out of character is just a part of life
Part of that is right but it can’t be too obviously out of character. I feel the imperfections need to live in the delivery. What I mean by that is the actors need to slip in a bad pronunciation of a word once in a while to make it feel real
I partly agree, mistakes and imperfections are part of everyday life and are being portrayed in movies as well, but it shouldn't feel too forced or serve as an excuse for "sloppy writing". Suicide Squad overall maintained a great balance so it does work within the story.
Not all the time but I get your point. Thriller, mystery, drama and psychological movies are some examples of films that heavily rely on precise dialogues. Nolan, Tarantino and Fincher films are some that I can think of that really needs "perfect" dialogue.
This is Katana. She's got my back. She can cut all of you in half with one sword stroke, just like mowing the lawn. I would advise not getting killed by her.
It was more personal - Starro legit said you guys are not leaving til you join my army essentially - they kind of had to fight whereas in the original it felt like only Rick Flag had a real stake in fighting
@@kwekueghana3683 Well... Starro didn't said that. He just leave them alone and went to conquer the city. And Waller even said: "You can go now, or I'll literally blow your brain out". And they still chose to be heros and maybe/probably die in the process.
I still think it's dumb in both. Like, why would they not listen to Waller and fight Starro? She would just blow their heads and they would die for nothing. There was no way for them to know some random person will knock Waller out.
@@blyzer7373 then you clearly missed the point. The movie painstakingly showed you that all though they were criminals, that doesn't mean they rotten people to the core. So they CHOSE to try to save the day, knowing that if they died, they died doing the right thing, and sometimes that's enough for people. It has Nothing to do with the fact they "knew" they wouldn't die, because like you said, they couldn't have known that.
The scene between Deadshot and his daughter was pretty much entirely improv. The actors knew where to start and where the director wanted to take it, but the screaming came from the actors. The young actor playing the daughter said she was kind of shocked to find herself screaming "Fuck you!" over and over at her idol, Idris Elba!
Most of the time, theres not a whole lot of "improv" in movies. A scene could take a dozen takes or have breaks between filiming moments of it. Improv would be really hard to do for an extended scene like that
That scene in suicide with Milton didn't serve for absolutely nothing like you used here as an example though. It showed that Polkadot man is growing and starting to care for other people.
Also, it set up a joke later with the name, just as the ass joke from Avengers. Which was equally useless to the plot of that movie, by the way. A very weird point when both scenes work the same in structure.
And it also shows that the rest of the Squad are still, despite their growth, all still assholes who don't care about anyone else in their immediate social circle.
@@romxxii everyone in the squad eccept ratcatcher and polka dot man are desensitzed to death, plus they didnt really know milton people dont feel strong emotions towards people dying they dont know
A lot of youtubers and even critics like to fetishize technical quality of works, but its like you said. Too strict of rules following actually works against making characters and world feel real.
That's actually true, principles and limitations are helpful for creating a structure of your story, but without the right amount of creative freedom the dialogue and characters might feel too generic or even artificial. What you really need to structure being your creative ideas and how to make them appeal more realistic. That's where you draw inspirations from everyday life and humanities imperfections.
I once went to watch a stage play just like that : everything was timed to the second. Probably a swiss watchmaker's wet dream ; but the most boring stage play i've ever witnessed. I only found solace that night by finding out precisely how much time i had to endure. . .
blindly, religiously following a formula of what theoretically makes art good will never end in anything memorable. The (metaphorical, but also nowadays literal) industrialization of art will be the death of it.
The technicals are very important in filmmaking. Nobody would say The Room is better then 12 Angry Men for metaphorical reasons. Dialogue is a part of character, saying something out of character is better describe as revealing their real character under specific circumstances or without the need to filter themselves. There is also saying things that don't make sense for their character. Imagine if after almost successful allowing an invading alien force to destroy earth, a few days later he says 'They are leaving all these people behind' +sad face+. Incongruous with what we know of the character. That is very different to the progression of events being imperfect. Cause and effect can't be tarnished for the sake of your emotional pay off. It could very easily drag people out of the experience if a character falls a great distance, doesn't die and falls through more floors atop a pile of floors only to land in front of someone about to kill someone important. The smaller bullets pay off was great, saving ratcatcher 2, Peacemaker decisions are all great writing but, plot armour of that magnitude is awful.
I love how you used a clip from "The Eric Andre Show" when discussing how real conversations work, considering how otherwise batshit crazy the show is.
I absolutely love how Harley Quinn is being developed. She has grown from dependence on Joker as seen in the start of Birds of prey (not telling people they broke up to use his protection) to being strong enough to handle her own in pure chaos
Yeah, i only wish that we could have seen her as the Jokers girl/partner/sidekick?. We have never seen her working with the Joker ever in live action. It kinda undervalues her independence if we have never seen her working as the Jokers #2.
i just sees this new DC as this .a different universe and this harley quinn has a dfifferent JOKER not jared leto shit .bill skarsgard the guy who played pennywise can be JOKER i think
@@j.fragoso7451 In my head canon, suicide squad (2016) is basically what Harley is with joker: a sexy fidget spinner, fun to fiddle and good to look at. But besides that, almost no substance
When done right, imperfections in movies and books are great. A break from the conventional stuff and has the potential to become almost a genre of its own
I really needed this as someone who writes fantasy. I try to go for serious undertones while having my characters be light-hearted expressing that even though the state of the world is horrible they are innocent and shouldn’t be by products of the tragic everyday. Constantly comparing myself to more established works I felt sad I was still writing this story when I originally wrapped it up last year, but hearing there’s a magic in imperfection really gave me confidence. Thank you!
That sounds great! I think I do something similar to that as well, and it still feels really cohesive. The overall plot and themes are absolutely serious, but my three main characters provide a surprising amount of levity in their downtime. They don't try one-upping each other with constant quips like a Marvel movie, it's more like their differing sensibilities brushing up against each other resulting in organic "punchlines," incredulity and amusement. They all had their upbringings stolen from them early, so they're all desperate for family and care about each other. I don't undermine the intense serious moments with jokes obviously, but I allow the heroes to enjoy each other's company. They like to unwind and tease each other when not fighting, possibly even try to cheer each other up when things are looking grim. It's...natural!
@@RacingSnails64 Loved this feedback this approach is what I enjoy about dialogue it may not be the most conventional but it helps set the tone for my story. While allowing interactions to not feel dated with the rest of my story. I really enjoyed this response.
@@AeroBlastX775 thanks for reminding me not to be too uptight with myself with writing. We are our biggest critics, and sometimes we can't help but compare ourselves to the ones already published. And it's hard on the self esteem sometimes.
@@jans.g6033 Always a difficult task but ultimately we write for the fun and the passion of it! Worry about everything else later in these first initial phases simply put words on a page. Tie together all those emotions, experiences, and luggage we carry daily and set them ablaze. We’re definitely our number one critiques so it’s nice to take a step back and not burn yourself out with the disaster of comparison. Believe in your book and it’ll believe in you!
I'm kind of surprised you didn't mention Iron Man (2008). It was a very loose production, and various cast interviews confirm that most dialogue was made on the set. The consequence of this is the film had very naturalistic dialogue for a Marvel film, which is interesting because that style is (as you mentioned) largely absent from most subsequent films in the franchise.
I wouldn't say largely absent. If anything, Iron Man's success meant that dialogue from Avengers and onwards would tend towards flippancy and irreverence. They didn't adopt the full riff style, but Tony never stopped snarking, and frankly, neither did anyone else. Even Ultimate Straight Man Steve had to drop the "I know, I know" when his past self gave the ol' "I can do this all day" one liner.
I will always love how you never tell people what to do with their writing but you share careful guides as examples and I think that’s needed a lot more. Especially when talking about something as subjective as creative writing.
Just like how he you shouldn’t stay constrained by rules and tips, you shouldn’t be constrained by styles. I like how he doesn’t say naturalistic is better. It all depends on what you’re making. The context, character and tone.
I think The Big Lebowski also embodies a lot of the randomness and chaos of actual people actually speaking just in the first scene where parts of the conversation go nowhere until they find a point with the rug to settle in for a while...
@@exzyyd392 I dunno if that happens all of the time, buy yeah makes sense for chapters. I've definitely had more ads play when watching through my TV compared to my phone though.
Low-key, you're one of my favorite film/writing analysis channels on RUclips, and you deserve way more attention/subscribers that you already have. The way you focus on specific aspects of movies, your sense of humor, the sheer passion you have for writing and editing in general - it's like candy to a creative-writing nerd like me. In short, you're amazing, take care of yourself, and keep doing what you love, my man.
I’ve watched this film four times now and it hasn’t decreased in quality. I know it’s easy to bash on DC films, however, I feel like when they knock it out of the park it’s next level. I wish studios would let creators create, allow them to do what they were hired for.
I think James Gunn's writing is where he shines brightest. He really understands interpersonal relationships and how people talk/fight. A good example imo is when Peter and Gamora are fighting in GotG2 and Peter is willfully ignoring/dismissing Gamora's warnings about Ego by trying to deflect to "Cheers" and Gamora turns back just to shout "I DON'T KNOW WHAT CHEERS IS!" I've had that type of fight, the one where I try to walk away but I just HAVE to turn around and say something, even if it's nonsense.
Heightened language is peak human communication. It’s the product of people having enough clarity of mind, flexibility, and confidence to immediately respond to a given situation in a calculated way meant to illicit a particular response.
The dialog sounds like a group of roleplayers roleplaying which is what im convinced writers rooms are now, just the writers playing DnD and converting their games into scripts
So that's why the DardevilvPunisher rooftop scene is so great. It felt like a real argument. They're both interrupting each other and stutters sometimes.
Y'know, this topic makes me think of professional wrestling. The best wrestlers can handle a microphone and sound natural, "dialing up their personality to a 10" while delivering dialogue that would seem silly or unbelievable coming from others.
I particularly love Weasel's dialogue. He brings out all our emotions and thoughts without saying a word. No matter how you speak or in what language, behind the facade we're all like him... (◠‿◕)
I can think of two effects that naturalistic dialogue has: 1) It is kind of a fourth wall break. By writing naturalistically you acknowledge that the writing before was not how people talk. 2) It creates extra believability. By writing naturalistically you have the viewer move away from the lense of viewing a movie and instead move him towards the lense of the real life.
My favorite example of Naturalistic Dialogue is a movie called Isle Of Dogs (a stop motion movie by Wes Anderson) All of the scenes feel slow but it’s so great when characters start interacting, making subtle reactions to what each character is saying, small stutters, etc. It’s so natural and perfect. We get ZERO info for a plot but we get info about the characters, their personalities or how their lives were before the events of the movie.
"Comedies that have based their entire identities off of dialogue, seemingly snatched from real life" When I tell you I was already quoting Always Sunny in my head before you showed it...
Great video. I'm glad you brought up Rick and Morty; it's a naturalistic dialogue linchpin, though I'd say it's an interesting case as it pushes the naturalism to the stylistically unrealistic.
What a brilliant analysis of dialogue in film! Just enough to leave me wanting more. Plus the misspelling in the thumbnail makes it literally "imperfect dialouge". Just perfect.
So glad you nodded to Inglorious Basterds here... when I think of uncannily perfect dialgue that film is by far #1. I love that the last line was something like, "...this might be my masterpiece" because it is a true masterpiece in writing. Never gets old
The piece of media with the best dialogue, in my opinion, is the tv show Psych, especially the dynamic between Shawn and Gus. Look up "Psych, Legal Consultants" the scene is pure gold.
I love that show, but honestly sometimes Shawn and Gus talking over each other can get a bit much. It still works for me because usually the punchline to their dynamic is Gus getting a bit of breathing room to do/say what he wants, then immediately flubs it after a beat, leaving Shawn to swoop in with a quip.
5:52 My favourite thing about this is that the camera stayed on Harley's confused face for *three whole seconds* before she asked. The fact this wasn't cut speaks volumes of the pacing this movie's going for.
i just came here to say that i'm not a writer, i've never even tried to write anything, i simply enjoy your videos so much, you have completely change the way i watch movies and tv shows!
Thank you for mentioning Marriage Story when talking about Naturalistic Dialogue, when they were arguing me and my girlfriend who were having hard times at the moment just looked at each other and we both knew what we were watching...
I always love conversations that contribute literally nothing to the story. While watching the new season of Umbrella Academy I was losing my mind with how amazing and on point the banter between siblings was.
"Sometimes we say crap that just doesn't make sense. We say things that don't progress a conversation in any meaningful way." That sounds like everything I say. If you look through just the comments in this video I go off topic constantly and writing is usually a little more to the point because we can edit ourselves. More than once I've been told it reads like how I talk. Kind of. I sound slightly smarter here though because I have a little more time to plan ahead before I get to what I'm saying as I type. I stumble and umm and ah constantly when I speak.
I saw both of these films in theatre with a friend (2016 as a favour, 2021 as optimistic for better) and the difference was honestly ridiculous. 2021 SS didn’t just steal 2016’s name, concept and characters, it dragged it into an alley, beat it with a baseball bat, rifled through its pockets for loose narrative threads and character beats, stole its shoes, and left it to bleed out behind the dumpster I saw 2016’s suicide squad twice; once in theatre, and then once at home before going to see 2021’s SS. That was already twice more than that movie deserved. Comparatively, I’m fully prepared to pay to go see 2021’s SS again with other friends if it means getting more people to watch it, and because it’ll be actually worth the runtime
2016 felt like a failed, if earnest attempt at making a James Gunn film. 2021 _is_ a James Gunn film. As a fan of Community, it reminded me a lot of the "gas leak year", or when they replaced Dan Harmon with a couple of journeyman producers. You could feel them _trying_ to get that Dan Harmon style, but they were missing the forest for the trees and only managed surface-level mimicry. They knew what they liked from Harmon's Community, but they didn't understand _why_ his schtick worked.
I think that clip from The Suicide Squad hits a balance where it's very awkward and casual, yet clean and doesn't take away from the film. The pacing helps too. The variations in the pace presented a sense of the characters taking things in or rushing to put in their witty remark, rather than being overly precise and consitent. (But still doesn't make the viewer suffer through listening to people talking how they talk in real life)
This video made me realise why I love New Girl so much (in its prime), because of how often conversations would get derailed by tangents/certain characters randomly bringing up new topics/or characters who weren’t listening suddenly talking. Naturalistic dialogue. Which is funny, for a show filled with characters that are so weird.
Funny that you mention that Nerdstalgic video, it’s a great vid btw, because I sometimes conflate you two because of your profile pics and topics of choice.
Loved this. The quality of your video essays are crazy high. The analysis is thorough and you have a talent for making difficult concepts more digestible. Suggestion: Have you considered cutting to yourself talking to the camera whenever clips from the source material aren't needed? Otherwise it inevitably ends up being a lot of the same clips repeated unnecessarily. Showing yourself on camera also helps build more of a connection with the viewers.
Insightful breakdown of the types of dialogues. I'd be interested to see an analysis of Armando Iannucci's dialogue style. Veep, In the Loop and The Thick of It have some of the most natural dialogues I've watched.
That's what I love about NEO TWEWY and TWEWY. Not all the dialogue in those games is something that moves the story along. Often times the dialogue is just like people chatting. It feels natural
This was a fantastic video! I love how you break a topic (dialogue in this case) down layer by layer. I wanted to make a video on Suicide Squad but couldn't figure out what to say. You nailed it so I'm glad I didn't even try lol
Great and informative video as always Savage! And on the subject of dialogue: I always wondered what's the right way to nail comedic dialogue in written media as I feel that so much of the comedy comes from the actor's delivery. I often write dialogue that feels funny to me but I'm not certain if the reader will find to be as funny because they might imagine a completely different delivery.
Thank you, you might not think this is true, but as a translator of fictional works, knowing about these concepts and using this knowledge, really does make me look at the translations I make from a different perspective, it might make me do better translations if anything. Cheers!!!
I really haven't been on board with the superhero trend for the past decade or so (I've never really cared about any of these comics and have no nostalgia for either Marvel or DC), but I took a plunge on this one and it was the best film in this genre that I saw. Way more enjoyable than Guardians of the Galaxy, if we're comparing James Gunn with himself. The dialogue was definitely part of it, but the writing on the whole was really strong, and the actors did a great job (I especially liked Harley when she appears after the initial beach landing fiasco).
The thing is in "is this a dog" scene the stops shows emotion and what the person is thinking. As they stop their self to try and get the words to put what they want to say. Giving off tones even with out saying perfect words.
This version got it right. This is the correct formula for the movie. Which is funny since the movie with villains and antiheros made it light where it was dark with the superheroes. But yeah it was hilarious despite all the characters that died.
I feel like having imperfect dialogue makes a film feel more realistic. Nobody says everything perfectly or for a reason. Saying something random or out of character is just a part of life
Part of that is right but it can’t be too obviously out of character. I feel the imperfections need to live in the delivery. What I mean by that is the actors need to slip in a bad pronunciation of a word once in a while to make it feel real
On the side, too much painstaking recreation of the imperfect vagueries of life and you end up with a 3 hour mumblecore movie
I partly agree, mistakes and imperfections are part of everyday life and are being portrayed in movies as well, but it shouldn't feel too forced or serve as an excuse for "sloppy writing". Suicide Squad overall maintained a great balance so it does work within the story.
Not all the time but I get your point. Thriller, mystery, drama and psychological movies are some examples of films that heavily rely on precise dialogues. Nolan, Tarantino and Fincher films are some that I can think of that really needs "perfect" dialogue.
This is Katana. She's got my back. She can cut all of you in half with one sword stroke, just like mowing the lawn. I would advise not getting killed by her.
"Here's dialogue's that neither realistic, nor believable"
*ad starts*
Perfect timing 🤣
perfecter
RUclips knows what's up
What ad was it lol
@@ValtorVentures 99% of them
In Suicide Squad, the Turn to Heroism was Silly and dumb
In THE suicide Squad, the turn to Heroism felt So fucking Real and Genuine
It was more personal - Starro legit said you guys are not leaving til you join my army essentially - they kind of had to fight whereas in the original it felt like only Rick Flag had a real stake in fighting
@@kwekueghana3683 Well... Starro didn't said that. He just leave them alone and went to conquer the city. And Waller even said: "You can go now, or I'll literally blow your brain out". And they still chose to be heros and maybe/probably die in the process.
I still think it's dumb in both. Like, why would they not listen to Waller and fight Starro? She would just blow their heads and they would die for nothing. There was no way for them to know some random person will knock Waller out.
@@blyzer7373 then you clearly missed the point.
The movie painstakingly showed you that all though they were criminals, that doesn't mean they rotten people to the core.
So they CHOSE to try to save the day, knowing that if they died, they died doing the right thing, and sometimes that's enough for people.
It has Nothing to do with the fact they "knew" they wouldn't die, because like you said, they couldn't have known that.
@@zaczane So they were just dumb? Okay gotcha.
The scene between Deadshot and his daughter was pretty much entirely improv. The actors knew where to start and where the director wanted to take it, but the screaming came from the actors. The young actor playing the daughter said she was kind of shocked to find herself screaming "Fuck you!" over and over at her idol, Idris Elba!
That was Bloodsport, not Deadshot.
I really thought you were talking about Will Smith.
Yes. "Deadshot."
Deadshot lmao
Most of the time, theres not a whole lot of "improv" in movies. A scene could take a dozen takes or have breaks between filiming moments of it. Improv would be really hard to do for an extended scene like that
That scene in suicide with Milton didn't serve for absolutely nothing like you used here as an example though. It showed that Polkadot man is growing and starting to care for other people.
Also, it set up a joke later with the name, just as the ass joke from Avengers. Which was equally useless to the plot of that movie, by the way. A very weird point when both scenes work the same in structure.
And it also shows that the rest of the Squad are still, despite their growth, all still assholes who don't care about anyone else in their immediate social circle.
@@romxxii everyone in the squad eccept ratcatcher and polka dot man are desensitzed to death, plus they didnt really know milton people dont feel strong emotions towards people dying they dont know
@@malcomchase9777 huh?
@@JoshuaWillis89 Capt America's ass, that really is America's ass
....
Just watch the movie
A lot of youtubers and even critics like to fetishize technical quality of works, but its like you said. Too strict of rules following actually works against making characters and world feel real.
That's actually true, principles and limitations are helpful for creating a structure of your story, but without the right amount of creative freedom the dialogue and characters might feel too generic or even artificial. What you really need to structure being your creative ideas and how to make them appeal more realistic. That's where you draw inspirations from everyday life and humanities imperfections.
I once went to watch a stage play just like that : everything was timed to the second. Probably a swiss watchmaker's wet dream ; but the most boring stage play i've ever witnessed. I only found solace that night by finding out precisely how much time i had to endure. . .
blindly, religiously following a formula of what theoretically makes art good will never end in anything memorable. The (metaphorical, but also nowadays literal) industrialization of art will be the death of it.
The technicals are very important in filmmaking. Nobody would say The Room is better then 12 Angry Men for metaphorical reasons. Dialogue is a part of character, saying something out of character is better describe as revealing their real character under specific circumstances or without the need to filter themselves. There is also saying things that don't make sense for their character. Imagine if after almost successful allowing an invading alien force to destroy earth, a few days later he says 'They are leaving all these people behind' +sad face+. Incongruous with what we know of the character. That is very different to the progression of events being imperfect. Cause and effect can't be tarnished for the sake of your emotional pay off. It could very easily drag people out of the experience if a character falls a great distance, doesn't die and falls through more floors atop a pile of floors only to land in front of someone about to kill someone important. The smaller bullets pay off was great, saving ratcatcher 2, Peacemaker decisions are all great writing but, plot armour of that magnitude is awful.
I think it’s the classic you have to learn the rules and understand them before breaking a few to make it special
I love how you used a clip from "The Eric Andre Show" when discussing how real conversations work, considering how otherwise batshit crazy the show is.
“Here’s dialogue that’s neither realistic nor believable” - ad plays
Well, ads are neither realistic nor believable. 🤣
What ad was it
John Cena's trembles and pauses after some of actions were just perfect. The nonverbal dialogue was on point as well.
I absolutely love how Harley Quinn is being developed. She has grown from dependence on Joker as seen in the start of Birds of prey (not telling people they broke up to use his protection) to being strong enough to handle her own in pure chaos
Yeah, i only wish that we could have seen her as the Jokers girl/partner/sidekick?. We have never seen her working with the Joker ever in live action. It kinda undervalues her independence if we have never seen her working as the Jokers #2.
I haven't seen anywhere near enough of her being with the Joker to actually appreciate the "development" it was just kinda straight outta the gate.
i just sees this new DC as this .a different universe and this harley quinn has a dfifferent JOKER not jared leto shit .bill skarsgard the guy who played pennywise can be JOKER i think
@@j.fragoso7451 In my head canon, suicide squad (2016) is basically what Harley is with joker: a sexy fidget spinner, fun to fiddle and good to look at. But besides that, almost no substance
Yeah no. There's no development. She's just written horribly in Suicide Squad, and Birds of Prey, and not written horribly in THE Suicide Squad.
"This is why people normally don't cough, unless it serves the narrative."
4:29 *a man is literally dying*
*a child* is literally dying
A psychopath is literally dying.
@@richardsantanna5398 can you really blame him? His uncle was his dad and his mom killed his..uh, other dad
One of the most satisfying scenes period.
I’m sure the Seven Kingdoms cared just as much.
"This is Katana she cuts laaawwnns with her soul" is something I haven't been able to stop saying at that dumb line since I saw it
When done right, imperfections in movies and books are great. A break from the conventional stuff and has the potential to become almost a genre of its own
I really needed this as someone who writes fantasy. I try to go for serious undertones while having my characters be light-hearted expressing that even though the state of the world is horrible they are innocent and shouldn’t be by products of the tragic everyday.
Constantly comparing myself to more established works I felt sad I was still writing this story when I originally wrapped it up last year, but hearing there’s a magic in imperfection really gave me confidence. Thank you!
That sounds great! I think I do something similar to that as well, and it still feels really cohesive. The overall plot and themes are absolutely serious, but my three main characters provide a surprising amount of levity in their downtime. They don't try one-upping each other with constant quips like a Marvel movie, it's more like their differing sensibilities brushing up against each other resulting in organic "punchlines," incredulity and amusement. They all had their upbringings stolen from them early, so they're all desperate for family and care about each other. I don't undermine the intense serious moments with jokes obviously, but I allow the heroes to enjoy each other's company. They like to unwind and tease each other when not fighting, possibly even try to cheer each other up when things are looking grim. It's...natural!
@@RacingSnails64 Loved this feedback this approach is what I enjoy about dialogue it may not be the most conventional but it helps set the tone for my story. While allowing interactions to not feel dated with the rest of my story. I really enjoyed this response.
@@AeroBlastX775 thanks for reminding me not to be too uptight with myself with writing. We are our biggest critics, and sometimes we can't help but compare ourselves to the ones already published. And it's hard on the self esteem sometimes.
@@jans.g6033 Always a difficult task but ultimately we write for the fun and the passion of it! Worry about everything else later in these first initial phases simply put words on a page. Tie together all those emotions, experiences, and luggage we carry daily and set them ablaze. We’re definitely our number one critiques so it’s nice to take a step back and not burn yourself out with the disaster of comparison. Believe in your book and it’ll believe in you!
I'm kind of surprised you didn't mention Iron Man (2008). It was a very loose production, and various cast interviews confirm that most dialogue was made on the set. The consequence of this is the film had very naturalistic dialogue for a Marvel film, which is interesting because that style is (as you mentioned) largely absent from most subsequent films in the franchise.
I wouldn't say largely absent. If anything, Iron Man's success meant that dialogue from Avengers and onwards would tend towards flippancy and irreverence. They didn't adopt the full riff style, but Tony never stopped snarking, and frankly, neither did anyone else. Even Ultimate Straight Man Steve had to drop the "I know, I know" when his past self gave the ol' "I can do this all day" one liner.
I will always love how you never tell people what to do with their writing but you share careful guides as examples and I think that’s needed a lot more. Especially when talking about something as subjective as creative writing.
Just like how he you shouldn’t stay constrained by rules and tips, you shouldn’t be constrained by styles. I like how he doesn’t say naturalistic is better. It all depends on what you’re making. The context, character and tone.
The cutting off of your voice right at the end is the perfect end to this video. Imperfection, making it all feel more real.
I think The Big Lebowski also embodies a lot of the randomness and chaos of actual people actually speaking just in the first scene where parts of the conversation go nowhere until they find a point with the rug to settle in for a while...
Finally, an analysis of The Suicide Squad that feels passionate but still genuine. Great stuff all around.
"N-no, Morty! T-th-the only real monster here, is alcoholism." *belches*
😂🤣😂 Gawd damn that was funny.
Nice choker
@@richardsantanna5398 L
Here's an example of dialog that is not believable, at all:
Google: Let's insert a couple ads real quick
Wooboy... That was a good laugh.
It happened to me to and it fit perfectly lol
He chooses where the ad goes, that was the joke
@@exzyyd392 I dunno if that happens all of the time, buy yeah makes sense for chapters. I've definitely had more ads play when watching through my TV compared to my phone though.
Low-key, you're one of my favorite film/writing analysis channels on RUclips, and you deserve way more attention/subscribers that you already have. The way you focus on specific aspects of movies, your sense of humor, the sheer passion you have for writing and editing in general - it's like candy to a creative-writing nerd like me. In short, you're amazing, take care of yourself, and keep doing what you love, my man.
I’ve watched this film four times now and it hasn’t decreased in quality. I know it’s easy to bash on DC films, however, I feel like when they knock it out of the park it’s next level. I wish studios would let creators create, allow them to do what they were hired for.
"Stupid plot, fun experience." That was my opinion upon watching the movie.
I think James Gunn's writing is where he shines brightest. He really understands interpersonal relationships and how people talk/fight. A good example imo is when Peter and Gamora are fighting in GotG2 and Peter is willfully ignoring/dismissing Gamora's warnings about Ego by trying to deflect to "Cheers" and Gamora turns back just to shout "I DON'T KNOW WHAT CHEERS IS!" I've had that type of fight, the one where I try to walk away but I just HAVE to turn around and say something, even if it's nonsense.
Heightened language is peak human communication. It’s the product of people having enough clarity of mind, flexibility, and confidence to immediately respond to a given situation in a calculated way meant to illicit a particular response.
"The Implication" is some of the greatest dialogue every put in a TV show, let alone any media.
The dialog sounds like a group of roleplayers roleplaying which is what im convinced writers rooms are now, just the writers playing DnD and converting their games into scripts
So that's why the DardevilvPunisher rooftop scene is so great. It felt like a real argument. They're both interrupting each other and stutters sometimes.
Y'know, this topic makes me think of professional wrestling. The best wrestlers can handle a microphone and sound natural, "dialing up their personality to a 10" while delivering dialogue that would seem silly or unbelievable coming from others.
9:37 “Here is dialogue that is neither realistic or believable” *ad plays*
I particularly love Weasel's dialogue.
He brings out all our emotions and thoughts without saying a word.
No matter how you speak or in what language, behind the facade we're all like him... (◠‿◕)
I can think of two effects that naturalistic dialogue has:
1) It is kind of a fourth wall break. By writing naturalistically you acknowledge that the writing before was not how people talk.
2) It creates extra believability. By writing naturalistically you have the viewer move away from the lense of viewing a movie and instead move him towards the lense of the real life.
9:33
"Here is dialogue that is neither realistic nor believable."
*Cuts to an ad*
*I burst out laughing*
My favorite example of Naturalistic Dialogue is a movie called Isle Of Dogs (a stop motion movie by Wes Anderson)
All of the scenes feel slow but it’s so great when characters start interacting, making subtle reactions to what each character is saying, small stutters, etc. It’s so natural and perfect. We get ZERO info for a plot but we get info about the characters, their personalities or how their lives were before the events of the movie.
"Peacemaker on his own has more personality than the 2016 cast."
Huh, I guess that's why he's getting his own series.
Hey just to let you know the Silicon Valley dialogue wasn’t just believable but realistic. I think I’ve had that conversation.
I love everything about The Suicide Squad, it has so much Heart
hearts getting stabbed, shot out, spat on, and Emotional Heart
"Comedies that have based their entire identities off of dialogue, seemingly snatched from real life"
When I tell you I was already quoting Always Sunny in my head before you showed it...
Afghan Hound is the best punchline of 2021
I’m glad you put in the Harley & Polka exchange about Milton because David Dastmalchian is the whole reason I even watched the movie
Naturalistic dialogue otherwise known as “mumblecore”
Great video. I'm glad you brought up Rick and Morty; it's a naturalistic dialogue linchpin, though I'd say it's an interesting case as it pushes the naturalism to the stylistically unrealistic.
What a brilliant analysis of dialogue in film! Just enough to leave me wanting more. Plus the misspelling in the thumbnail makes it literally "imperfect dialouge". Just perfect.
imperfect dialogue can make a scene perfect
9:33 I like the ad placement here
So glad you nodded to Inglorious Basterds here... when I think of uncannily perfect dialgue that film is by far #1. I love that the last line was something like, "...this might be my masterpiece" because it is a true masterpiece in writing. Never gets old
Ngl, especially being exposed to it as a kid, I immediately bought into the prequel dialogue and would class it as believable whenever I listen to it.
The piece of media with the best dialogue, in my opinion, is the tv show Psych, especially the dynamic between Shawn and Gus. Look up "Psych, Legal Consultants" the scene is pure gold.
I love that show, but honestly sometimes Shawn and Gus talking over each other can get a bit much. It still works for me because usually the punchline to their dynamic is Gus getting a bit of breathing room to do/say what he wants, then immediately flubs it after a beat, leaving Shawn to swoop in with a quip.
@@romxxii Just cause you put syrup on something don't make it pancakes.
5:52 My favourite thing about this is that the camera stayed on Harley's confused face for *three whole seconds* before she asked. The fact this wasn't cut speaks volumes of the pacing this movie's going for.
Dialogue analysis is always one of the hardest things for me to get, but as a consquence it's also what I find most valuable when done well
i just came here to say that i'm not a writer, i've never even tried to write anything, i simply enjoy your videos so much, you have completely change the way i watch movies and tv shows!
Thank you for mentioning Marriage Story when talking about Naturalistic Dialogue, when they were arguing me and my girlfriend who were having hard times at the moment just looked at each other and we both knew what we were watching...
Also I seem to be the only that didn't get the ad when I was supposed to
also polka dot man's actor is so underrated in 5:52 onwards
I always love conversations that contribute literally nothing to the story. While watching the new season of Umbrella Academy I was losing my mind with how amazing and on point the banter between siblings was.
After suicide squad I’m SO excited for guardians of the galaxy 3, James Gunn is a gift
"Sometimes we say crap that just doesn't make sense. We say things that don't progress a conversation in any meaningful way." That sounds like everything I say. If you look through just the comments in this video I go off topic constantly and writing is usually a little more to the point because we can edit ourselves. More than once I've been told it reads like how I talk. Kind of. I sound slightly smarter here though because I have a little more time to plan ahead before I get to what I'm saying as I type. I stumble and umm and ah constantly when I speak.
Uncut gems is a whole chaotic masterpiece with naturalistic dialogue
I saw both of these films in theatre with a friend (2016 as a favour, 2021 as optimistic for better) and the difference was honestly ridiculous. 2021 SS didn’t just steal 2016’s name, concept and characters, it dragged it into an alley, beat it with a baseball bat, rifled through its pockets for loose narrative threads and character beats, stole its shoes, and left it to bleed out behind the dumpster
I saw 2016’s suicide squad twice; once in theatre, and then once at home before going to see 2021’s SS. That was already twice more than that movie deserved. Comparatively, I’m fully prepared to pay to go see 2021’s SS again with other friends if it means getting more people to watch it, and because it’ll be actually worth the runtime
2016 felt like a failed, if earnest attempt at making a James Gunn film. 2021 _is_ a James Gunn film.
As a fan of Community, it reminded me a lot of the "gas leak year", or when they replaced Dan Harmon with a couple of journeyman producers. You could feel them _trying_ to get that Dan Harmon style, but they were missing the forest for the trees and only managed surface-level mimicry. They knew what they liked from Harmon's Community, but they didn't understand _why_ his schtick worked.
Wow this was a surprise to see for sure! Thank you for the vid and look forward to using your services in the future!
I shall play an unrealistic unbelievable dialogue:
Money transfer Ad starts playing.
Another show that does this type of dialogue amazingly is Smiling Friends, and its SO good
i literally thought of "the implication" scene from iasip when you described natural dialogue
I think that clip from The Suicide Squad hits a balance where it's very awkward and casual, yet clean and doesn't take away from the film.
The pacing helps too. The variations in the pace presented a sense of the characters taking things in or rushing to put in their witty remark, rather than being overly precise and consitent.
(But still doesn't make the viewer suffer through listening to people talking how they talk in real life)
I loved this movie so so much. It helped me during a hard time and it gives me so much inspiration
The moment he says “Here is dialogue that is neither realistic or believable…” the video immediately cut to an advertisement lol, timing is everything
I've been feeling this way for the longest time but didn't know how to explain it. Well done
This video made me realise why I love New Girl so much (in its prime), because of how often conversations would get derailed by tangents/certain characters randomly bringing up new topics/or characters who weren’t listening suddenly talking. Naturalistic dialogue.
Which is funny, for a show filled with characters that are so weird.
Fantastic critique and review of what makes fantasy real life for us, the viewers. Great analysis and look forward to many more!
Funny that you mention that Nerdstalgic video, it’s a great vid btw, because I sometimes conflate you two because of your profile pics and topics of choice.
Imperfect dialogue is something I try to practice. It's a balance, you need both if you're going to use the Imperfect stuff.
9:38
SB: “Here is dialogue that’s neither realistic nor believable:…”
Ad: “Listen to all your favorite music wherever you are with RUclips music!”
Yes savage... Not a min, more like months but still love your videos. 👍
Loved this. The quality of your video essays are crazy high. The analysis is thorough and you have a talent for making difficult concepts more digestible.
Suggestion: Have you considered cutting to yourself talking to the camera whenever clips from the source material aren't needed? Otherwise it inevitably ends up being a lot of the same clips repeated unnecessarily. Showing yourself on camera also helps build more of a connection with the viewers.
Insightful breakdown of the types of dialogues. I'd be interested to see an analysis of Armando Iannucci's dialogue style. Veep, In the Loop and The Thick of It have some of the most natural dialogues I've watched.
Thor really said “Call an ambulance! Call an ambulance! But not for me.”
That's what I love about NEO TWEWY and TWEWY. Not all the dialogue in those games is something that moves the story along. Often times the dialogue is just like people chatting. It feels natural
This was a fantastic video! I love how you break a topic (dialogue in this case) down layer by layer. I wanted to make a video on Suicide Squad but couldn't figure out what to say. You nailed it so I'm glad I didn't even try lol
I hated it when cena turned heel.... I would have watched the hell out of a Bloodsport/Peacemaker team up movie.
Great and informative video as always Savage! And on the subject of dialogue: I always wondered what's the right way to nail comedic dialogue in written media as I feel that so much of the comedy comes from the actor's delivery. I often write dialogue that feels funny to me but I'm not certain if the reader will find to be as funny because they might imagine a completely different delivery.
9:35 To be fair, that is the part almost everyone remembers from the first movie.
Yet another beautiful take on this film. I still can't believe that I've seen it 3 times. Awesome work SB 👏👏👏
I think one important thing is self-awareness to realize sometime the dialogue doesn't stay true to the character or corny or even coherent at all.
excellently timed ad break lmao 9:30
This was an awesome video. Gonna check out your other stuff for sure!
Thank you, you might not think this is true, but as a translator of fictional works, knowing about these concepts and using this knowledge, really does make me look at the translations I make from a different perspective, it might make me do better translations if anything. Cheers!!!
I really haven't been on board with the superhero trend for the past decade or so (I've never really cared about any of these comics and have no nostalgia for either Marvel or DC), but I took a plunge on this one and it was the best film in this genre that I saw. Way more enjoyable than Guardians of the Galaxy, if we're comparing James Gunn with himself. The dialogue was definitely part of it, but the writing on the whole was really strong, and the actors did a great job (I especially liked Harley when she appears after the initial beach landing fiasco).
Waiting until 9 minutes to use the Katana dialogue shows real restraint
Liked as soon as I saw the Fantastic Mr Fox reference. Seriously though, this was a great video
I love this video. It so high quality. I’m hoping to get my content on this level. Thanks for inspiring me.
Now I want a pdf script pdf for The suicide Squad
Harley is a constant for the team, she just plays that role in a different way and I enjoyed it.
9:35 hehe, nice add placement.
I haven't seen Fantastic Mr Fox in so long, that scene almost put me on my ass
"He's a weasel, he's harmless! I mean, he's not harmless. He murdered 27 children, but..."
That was a great video and analysis about dialogue, keep up the amazing work!
The thing is in "is this a dog" scene the stops shows emotion and what the person is thinking. As they stop their self to try and get the words to put what they want to say. Giving off tones even with out saying perfect words.
This version got it right. This is the correct formula for the movie. Which is funny since the movie with villains and antiheros made it light where it was dark with the superheroes. But yeah it was hilarious despite all the characters that died.
What about the dialog written by George Lucas ?
Here's a good video on it: ruclips.net/video/S5E-eSdRjXs/видео.html
Very informative. Thank you!