Solaris is a 5/5 for me. Philosophical sci-fi is my favourite. The ending left me completely stunned and made me recontenxtualize the entire book. It was quite funny to read so many goodreads reviews from people who seemed to completely miss the bigger picture.
Great video! This is a superbly curated collection of underappreciated novels. Of all of them, 'More Than Human' is the one that sticks most in my memory, and 'Frankenstein' the most surprising.
I'll guess Frankenstein got brought down by lots of teenagers probably being assigned to read it and so being annoyed to have to read it. It feels like the sort of book someone's English teacher would assign.
I agree. I've read a lot of books that have a more archaic style than modern science fiction, so I'm used to them. And I agree that Frankenstein is a great work of sci fi (actually, it was the first!). But books of that era often tended to be a bit more wordy and slower paced. Remember: Back then they didn't have TV or radio and reading was one of the few cheap entertainments. So readers were usually welcoming of a leisurely pace. For example, I once tried to read "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" by Victor Hugo, written in the mid 1800's, and it was so extremely slow and leisurely that I didn't get very far into it. (Incidentally, Mary Shelley wrote it for a book club that she and Lord Byron and others participated in while vacationing in Switzerland. It was based on a dream she had and she wrote it very swiftly. It was a masterpiece of gothic horror and created an entirely new genre we know and love today).
Brought down in what way? It's 3.88 stars, that's very good. And about 2/3 of the ratings are 4 and 5 stars. And the 4 and 5 stars are about 50/50. It looks pretty well received.
Yes, not everyone likes all books. But the distribution of the ratings is heavily tilted towards 4&5 start. Compare that to the quantum thief, same rating, a lot more polarised. If you look at a few 2 star ratings, it's more people who just think it's boring and people who expected too much. I don't think a lot of people who are forced to read a book in school will run off to Goodreads to rate a book
I normally hate info-dumps but in classic sci-fi it just hits different and Solaris is a comfort read for me. I feel the same way about the ending of Klara and the Sun! I think people's expectations of Frankenstein may get in the way of actually enjoying it for what it is. Almost all of these are somewhere on my endless TBR 🤓 They'll move up the list after your endorsement.
Frankenstein is a timeless classic! I reread it recently and rank it as my favourite 19th century novel (followed by 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea). I think the issue for some readers, as you have mentioned, is going into the book with misleading preconceptions from popular culture.
Another interesting episode. I realized that I rarely leave comments here because I end up doing such on other channels because so many presenters tend to be polarizing with their opinions and/or how they give said opinions. You are just plain solid, straightforward and thoughtful. There is no snobbery, either superficial or real to be found on your channel, and I appreciate that.
Just started Klara and the Sun today! And I'd love to see some lower scored books that you ended up liking. I go in fully confident with things 3.5 and above, but that could be unfair to some books below that mark. Hopefully we see a follow up video to this one.
Loved Eversion, a very unique telling of the closed-loop computer consciousness awakening theme. I enjoyed the first in the Riverworld series as well but can see how people may have balked. We have to accept books as what they are, and not what we'd like them to be.
The Alastair Reynolds comment reminds me of Sea of Tranquility - the first chapter of that reads like a straight up historical with characters that aren't particularly likeable. Definitely going to read Reynolds soon!
@@WordsinTime Station Eleven is so good. It got me back into reading and the arts after a really bleak time. Sea of Tranquility took a while to get into but was a good read.
Loved Sea of Tranquility! The structure reminded me of a certain famous Heinlein shirt story, the way the pieces were all there and interlocked smoothly at the end. The writing though is far more lyrical. Best read after Station Eleven. Survival is insufficient!
What an interesting list. I've read and loved half of those books but have never heard of the other half. Definitely worth checking. Also, it is no wonder good sci-fi books are underrated, you just have to look at the top sci-fi books on Goodreads or Hugo Awards.
I read Solaris late last year and loved it. Frankenstein is one of my favorite books, and i liked children of men a lot and enjoyed the fact it wasnt an action fest like thr movie.
Frankenstein is one of the best examinations of the human condition and its relationship with society that I’ve ever read. It's rich with philosophy and wisdom and warnings. And the creature is one of the great tragic figures of literature. It's frankly (Frankensteinly?) ridiculous that Shelley wrote it as a teenager.
Great video Jonathan. I like this topic of underrated books. I've read Frankenstein, Solaris, More than Human, and Blood Music. On Frankenstein I couldn't wait to read what the monster had to say. A little ways into it I wished he'd shut up lol. Solaris was trippy for me and hard to understand what was going on and really just boring. More than Human was so interesting and strange and I really enjoyed it. Blood Music was like three different stories and I liked them all. The final part was amazing to imagine and it being considered hard sci-fi made proud that I liked something hard. I'm not very intellectual so everyone just take my thoughts with a grain of salt. I hope you'll do more of these. Thanks Jonathan
Some of these books are among the best SF I have ever read and really would deserve a higher rating. Solaris and More Than Human. Except for Riverworld.
Happy New Year Jonathan! I agree with most of your picks here, Solaris is really good, I love the atmosphere it creates. It is a 5 star read for me, it's in my top 25. Eversion is excellent, 4stars from me. To your scattered bodies go another top 25 novel for me. Frankenstein, another 5 star read! Unfortunately I didn't enjoy The Quantum Thief
Thanks, Jonathan - nice work! 100% Goodreads stars and enjoyment don't really correlate or at least correlate poorly as far as I'm concerned. I'm glad I've already read some of your picks :) I'd like to put in a good word for Philip K. Dick's "the Game-Players of Titan" (3.65) and the "The Ganymede Takeover" (3.27) - what is it about outer-planet moons and stars? I really liked those two. Also, a book apparently so obscure it doesn't even have a rating: Leonard Daventry's "You Must Remember Us...?" I absolutely loved that book. Perhaps an idea for a future episode, unrated books ;) ?
Growing up in the seventies, Frankenstein, Solaris, More Than Human and Scattered Bodies were all part of canon. I read them maybe too young, loved them anyway, and must get back to them and see what my adult self makes of them. The others are on the TBR. Is there a canon these days, or are there just too many opinions?
@@richardostkamp3569 I’m not sure if there is a canon. And if there is it’s probably different depending on which book community on the internet you ask. But I’m glad you enjoyed those!
I’ve had the pleasure of reading 6 of these books I tend to only look at Goodreads ratings to sort of validate my love or hate for a book. Haha. I think it’s only human nature to be curious if the consensus on something jibes with your own opinion If I’m looking for a recommendation for something new to read , I’ll never look to Goodreads ratings . I’ll find like minded people who seem to like the same things I do. For example, that clever fellow on Words In Time😉. Thanks for the Ken Grimwood Replay suggestion. I thoroughly enjoyed it!! I think you’ll enjoy Titan
I have read Titan, and it is a joy to read...I love Varley's prose and he is one of my favorite writers. However, I think it is important to state that this book is more enjoyable when you have read all 3 in the trilogy. Enjoy!!
Good to see you put The Children of Men at number one. PD James was one of my favorite writers and almost of all her books were detective/suspense novels, so I was surprised and pleased how well she did in her one foray into sci-fi. She had a realistic and sometimes even brutal take on human failings and their capacity for evil. I learned recently that human sperm counts around the world have declined sharply for some reason though so far there’s no danger of the kind of scenario depicted in her book. But I understand there is a real demographic crisis in many countries. Terrific list overall. Be well. ⚛❤
Your description of the science in Quantum Thief very much reminds me of the Golden Age Trilogy by John C Wright. I think you would enjoy it. I am adding QT to my tbr list.
Readers today seem to want fast-paced action stories, rather than idea-driven. I have read Titan, but so long ago I don't remember it. Still sitting on my shelves, maybe I'll pull it out and give it a re-read. I just recently read "More Than Human" but I want to read it again, I feel like I missed stuff after talking to a fan of the book.
I suspect that part of the reason Frankenstein is rated so low is from readers who were disappointed because they expected it to be more of a "monster movie" kind of book, based on how Frankenstein is depicted in movies and pop culture.
Read Eversion and was nonplussed with this one. Perhaps it was because the Reynolds book I read prior to this one was House of Suns, which was my favorite from him so far. Still, great list.
Titan aside, these are all on my eternal TBR. Will be sure to go in with a 3.6* expectation so I can be blown away when they're 4*+. I wish we could curate ratings from certain people (those who gave Frankenstein, War & Peace, etc 4*+.)
Nice. I'm not sure what 'Goodreads' is but, this is a decent list. Lem, Sturgeon, Farmer, and of course Frankenstein are classics that everyone should read. Needing some more 'hard' SciFi after reading Iain Banks I got into Reynolds in the early 00's. it's great stuff, but he gets very repetitive alas. But I found my salvation in Rajaniemi. Everything he writes is just brilliant...
Quantum Theif is the only one ive read, I liked it, 4 stars i think. Eversion is on my tbr this month. I love early Reynolds, feel like he started going downhill right around Terminal World. Hoping Eversion is a return to form for him.
I've only read a few of these but gave them higher ratings each time. Eversion was five stars for me. The historic sailing ship beginning took me by surprise, but subsequent chapters following the same theme got me intrigued and I picked up that he was heading for something. By the time he got to the 'real' story I was hooked. I thought Solaris the book (4.5 stars from me) was way better than the Hollywood George Clooney romance movie. The book has more challenging themes and asks deeper questions. The Russian movie headed in the right direction but seemed to be hampered by budget constraints. And the whole Quantum Thief (4.5 stars) trilogy was extraordinary, although fiendishly difficult to get into. It's worth getting back into each book just to read the first lines. I've recently read his Summerland and Darkome. Both worth reading. I'm waiting for somebody to make movies of his work.
“Big Dumb Object” sub-genre?! I confess I don’t know what that is, but I’m thinking Rama? I don’t know Varley either, but I did wishlist his “The Ophiuchi Hotline” after listening to Andy Johnson’s pod/YT channel earlier today.
I loved To Your Scattered Bodies Go, and people judging on todays morals is wrong but I read it in the mid 70's, and I spend years reading up on Sir Richard Francis Burton afterwards. The Children of Men was a hard read, particularly as I saw the film first. I also read Dying Inside in the 70's and enjoyed it, but not as much as other Silverberg books.
In my opinion Redemption of time by Baoshu is underrated. It follows the remembrance of earths past trilogy by answering some plots and tying them. It has a really good ending. Definitely doesnt deserve 3.6 in good reads. My guess is people dont like the characterization. But if you just put that aside, its up there 5/5 for me
Great video Jonathan! I’ve never heard of John Varley, but the cover for Titan is really cool! Unfortunately I agree with the rating for Frankenstein. 😭
Read and liked all but the Quantum thief, which I just bought. You have been reevaluated to slightly insane, from quite mad. You will always be one of my favorite para social friends, kind of like a favorite book charecter. Bilbo or no, Tom Bombadil. 😸😸😸😸😸😸
@@jasongrundy1717 There are some readers that give 5 stars more frequently. And sequels often have higher averages too. So the ratings need to be taken in context.
Expectations. When you start a very hyped up book and expect something divine, it's hard to deliver. The other you mentioned :can't connect. One of my favorite quotes To paraphrase one of my heroes, Gene Wolfe, the difference between fiction based on reality and fantasy is simply a matter of range. The former is a handgun. It hits the target almost close enough to touch, and even the willfully ignorant can’t deny that it’s effective. Fantasy is a sixteen-inch naval rifle. It fires with a tremendous bang, and it appears to have done nothing and to be shooting at nothing. Note the qualifier “appears.” The real difference is that with fantasy-and by that I mean fantasy which can simultaneously tap into a cosmopolitan commonality at the same time as it springs from an individual and unique perspective. In this sort of fantasy, a mythic resonance lingers on-a harmonious vibration that builds in potency the longer one considers it, rather than fading away when the final page is read and the book is put away. Characters discovered in such writing are pulled from our own inner landscapes-the way Izzy would pull her numena from hers-and then set out upon the stories’ various stages so that as we learn to understand them a little better, both the monsters and the angels, we come to understand ourselves a little better as well. Charles de Lint Memory & Dream
Frankenstein is a spectacular book; a 5-star read for me. But I agree that it may help to have read a lot of classics in order to understand the use of language and pacing. I have got to get to Solaris and Clara and the Sun. Two of my all-time favorite scifi books, Brave New World and A Canticle for Liebowitz, come out at >4 stars. But what does Goodreads know?? Of Mice and Men has a 3.89. 🤷
Perusing my recent reads on Goodreads, I gave 5 stars to The Man in the High Castle & the GR rating is only 3.60. Also, Tau Zero only got a 3.83 on GR.
Goodreads ratings are a complete mess, I pay them barely any heed these days. I've definitely noticed a trend where users will rate books purely on enjoyment and nothing else. Themes, prose and everything else is disregarded. That's why so many shallow popcorn reads like Andy Weir and The Expanse have 4.5+ ratings, while something like Moby-Dick languishes at 3.5. It's very much a platform for the mainstream reader, that's why I only pay attention to the reviews of dedicated SF/genre readers such as yourself 👍
Nothing wrong with “enjoyment and nothing else”. If I come across a scifi book new to me, I’ll often go to Goodreads for a summary if the ratings are 4+, but I seldom read reviews, which are often so badly written, I’m embarrassed for the reviewer. Unfortunately, my interest is in a sub-subcategory of scifi, so I’m always at pains to find something new and worthwhile. Even entertaining. 😮
My theory on this is that compared to watching a movie or listening to an album, reading a book is a longer time commitment. So people only start/finish things they think they’ll enjoy/are enjoying and this is why the ratings tend to be higher for books on Goodreads than movies on Letterboxd or albums on RateYourMusic.
Anything that is required reading in school (like Frankenstein) is going to get punished on GR. People don’t like being required to read something whether they’re ready for it or not.
I liked To your scattered bodies go. The story was unique and entertaining. And I agree, some characters are annoying. But the story was still good. The problem for me is that, the whole series become long, and tedious, with too many characters, different points of view, and I just wanted to know about the tower.
I really wanted to like Klara and the Sun but I just found it quite bland. It never seemed to have any momentum. Rick seemed to be the only decent human character. Also the whole reason the family wanted Klara in the first place was creepy.
I found the first half of Solaris to be incredible and the second half to be incredibly boring. I understand why people love it though, wonderfully atmospheric stuff. More Than Human is great, Sturgeon's writing style flows nicely. Cheers!
I believe there is quite a difference between the books rated 4 because they have sort of the same rating of 5, 4 and 3, the ones that have mostly 4s and the ones that are mostly 5s and then a lot of 1s. Next time perhaps a show of the rating structure, which is there on Goodreads, will be revealing on what people think of them.
Two of my most loathed SF books on this list. I am one of those naughty people on Goodreads bringing those ratings down. I would not write this here if you had not actively ASKED for my opinion but here goes: 1) Frankenstein came across to me as being whiny and emo and overall, very poorly written and plotted. NOW I know that the author was in fact a teenager when she wrote it, so kudos for that certainly, nothing I wrote as a teen was as worth while, but still unenjoyable to read. 2) It is barely SF, I resented that. Using the new-fangled word 'Galvanic force' a few dozen times does NOT make it SF - I could probably put up with it better if it is not so widely hailed as one of the parents of SF. I personally disagree. 3) Dr Frankenstein is a psychopath, we do all realise that don't we? He does horrific things with no compunction, takes no responsibility for his actions, has no introspection beyond 'poor, poor me it is not fair my life has worked out so badly'. Much MUCH worse the author (whose voice is heard through the sea captain, whatshisname) seems to adore him and shows NO critical evaluation of him or his actions. I could go on. Please don't hate on me, I was asked to comment....
@@OmnivorousReader Haha fair enough. Here are my thoughts: 1. I liked the prose, and to me it read as thoughtful and emotional as opposed to whiny and emo but the tone might not work for everyone. 2. I typically like my science fiction to be rooted in some level of science, but considering this was written in 1818 I was more forgiving of the lack of scientific detail. 3. Yes, Dr Frankenstein is foolish and selfish. I don’t think the book paints him as a hero, rather he has to live with the consequences of all his terrible decisions.
@@WordsinTime Fair enough and thank you for being nice about it! I am delighted there are an abundance of books out there and readers to enjoy all types of book. After finishing a recent re-read of Frankenstein, I went around asking people for their opinions about it, as I found it hard to integrate my experience with other peoples views and for a book I did not enjoy, it has certainly sparked a lot of thoughts and discussions and still is :)
Saying the main character in Dying Inside has "outdated attitudes" is a gross understatement, the character is an unapologetic racist (there's other problematic things but the racism is the most glaring). It's not like most older sci-fi, either, where you get one or two scenes where you think "that aged pretty poorly" but then you can get back to the good stuff, it felt like the book couldn't go five pages without some kind of racist remark or slur (I don't think the black college student he's writing a term paper for shows up once without the main character thinking the N word at him at least once). At one point I saw a Yiddish word I'd never heard before and jokingly thought "it's probably a racial slur" while I looked it up, and it turns out it was. It's just too much and added nothing to the story.
Some suggestions I you don't hear much about from Book Tubers Brittle Innings by Michael Bishop Cryptonomicom by Neal Stephenson Legacy of Heorot by Niven, Pournelle, and Barnes The Night's Dawn Trilogy by Peter F. Hamilton The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell (I have heard some talk about this one, but not many) The Algebraist by Iain M. Banks Armor by John steakley The Engineer Trilogy by KJ Parker Boy's Life by Robert McCammon (probably not mentioned much because it isn't SciFi) Carrion Comfort by Dan Simmons Janissaries by Jerry Pournelle Expendable by James Alan Gardner The Terror by Dan Simmons Enemy Mine by Barry B Longyear Inherit the Stars by James P Hogan Macroscope by Piers Anthony Monster Hunter International by Larry Correia The Passage by Justin Cronin The Coldfire Trilogy by CS Friedman Wolf's hour by Robert McCammon
Solaris is a 5/5 for me. Philosophical sci-fi is my favourite. The ending left me completely stunned and made me recontenxtualize the entire book. It was quite funny to read so many goodreads reviews from people who seemed to completely miss the bigger picture.
@@artificialbox I’m glad it resonated with you!
Solaris and frankenstein are so good!
@@giulyblaziken268 Yes! Glad you also enjoyed them!
Great video! This is a superbly curated collection of underappreciated novels. Of all of them, 'More Than Human' is the one that sticks most in my memory, and 'Frankenstein' the most surprising.
Thanks! I’m glad you also connected with those two!
I'll guess Frankenstein got brought down by lots of teenagers probably being assigned to read it and so being annoyed to have to read it. It feels like the sort of book someone's English teacher would assign.
I think that’s a good theory!
I agree. I've read a lot of books that have a more archaic style than modern science fiction, so I'm used to them. And I agree that Frankenstein is a great work of sci fi (actually, it was the first!). But books of that era often tended to be a bit more wordy and slower paced. Remember: Back then they didn't have TV or radio and reading was one of the few cheap entertainments. So readers were usually welcoming of a leisurely pace. For example, I once tried to read "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" by Victor Hugo, written in the mid 1800's, and it was so extremely slow and leisurely that I didn't get very far into it. (Incidentally, Mary Shelley wrote it for a book club that she and Lord Byron and others participated in while vacationing in Switzerland. It was based on a dream she had and she wrote it very swiftly. It was a masterpiece of gothic horror and created an entirely new genre we know and love today).
Brought down in what way? It's 3.88 stars, that's very good. And about 2/3 of the ratings are 4 and 5 stars. And the 4 and 5 stars are about 50/50. It looks pretty well received.
@ Did you watch the video?
Yes, not everyone likes all books. But the distribution of the ratings is heavily tilted towards 4&5 start. Compare that to the quantum thief, same rating, a lot more polarised. If you look at a few 2 star ratings, it's more people who just think it's boring and people who expected too much. I don't think a lot of people who are forced to read a book in school will run off to Goodreads to rate a book
I love these deep cut scifi recommendations, thank you!!❤
@@angelekay3843 You’re welcome!
I normally hate info-dumps but in classic sci-fi it just hits different and Solaris is a comfort read for me.
I feel the same way about the ending of Klara and the Sun!
I think people's expectations of Frankenstein may get in the way of actually enjoying it for what it is.
Almost all of these are somewhere on my endless TBR 🤓 They'll move up the list after your endorsement.
@@maryhooksbooks I think that’s a good perspective! And I hope you enjoy the books on your TBR!
Frankenstein is a timeless classic! I reread it recently and rank it as my favourite 19th century novel (followed by 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea). I think the issue for some readers, as you have mentioned, is going into the book with misleading preconceptions from popular culture.
@@bookspin Glad you love it too!
Great list, I learned of several titles that I did not know about and now are in my TBR. Thanks!
@@heguiluz I hope you like them!
Another interesting episode. I realized that I rarely leave comments here because I end up doing such on other channels because so many presenters tend to be polarizing with their opinions and/or how they give said opinions. You are just plain solid, straightforward and thoughtful. There is no snobbery, either superficial or real to be found on your channel, and I appreciate that.
@@tomhunter7672 Thanks for the kind words Tom, I really appreciate it!
Just started Klara and the Sun today! And I'd love to see some lower scored books that you ended up liking. I go in fully confident with things 3.5 and above, but that could be unfair to some books below that mark. Hopefully we see a follow up video to this one.
@@christianthorpe935 Hope you enjoy Klara and the Sun! I don’t think I’ve read many books with a score below 3.5 but perhaps there are some.
Loved Eversion, a very unique telling of the closed-loop computer consciousness awakening theme. I enjoyed the first in the Riverworld series as well but can see how people may have balked. We have to accept books as what they are, and not what we'd like them to be.
@@reynoldsmathey That’s a good perspective. Glad you enjoyed Eversion!
The Alastair Reynolds comment reminds me of Sea of Tranquility - the first chapter of that reads like a straight up historical with characters that aren't particularly likeable. Definitely going to read Reynolds soon!
I haven’t read Sea of Tranquility, but I do own a copy of Station Eleven.
@@WordsinTime Station Eleven is so good. It got me back into reading and the arts after a really bleak time. Sea of Tranquility took a while to get into but was a good read.
Loved Sea of Tranquility! The structure reminded me of a certain famous Heinlein shirt story, the way the pieces were all there and interlocked smoothly at the end. The writing though is far more lyrical. Best read after Station Eleven. Survival is insufficient!
What an interesting list. I've read and loved half of those books but have never heard of the other half. Definitely worth checking. Also, it is no wonder good sci-fi books are underrated, you just have to look at the top sci-fi books on Goodreads or Hugo Awards.
@@Olga_and_Needle I hope you enjoy the others!
@@WordsinTime I Hope so too. Always on the lookout for a new read ;)
+1 on more than human. Beautiful!
@@deronjohnson6224 Glad you loved it too!
I read Solaris late last year and loved it. Frankenstein is one of my favorite books, and i liked children of men a lot and enjoyed the fact it wasnt an action fest like thr movie.
@@JamesI88 Glad you liked these too!
Frankenstein is one of the best examinations of the human condition and its relationship with society that I’ve ever read. It's rich with philosophy and wisdom and warnings. And the creature is one of the great tragic figures of literature. It's frankly (Frankensteinly?) ridiculous that Shelley wrote it as a teenager.
@@ThePoliticsofFiction Totally agree!
Great video Jonathan. I like this topic of underrated books. I've read Frankenstein, Solaris, More than Human, and Blood Music. On Frankenstein I couldn't wait to read what the monster had to say. A little ways into it I wished he'd shut up lol. Solaris was trippy for me and hard to understand what was going on and really just boring. More than Human was so interesting and strange and I really enjoyed it. Blood Music was like three different stories and I liked them all. The final part was amazing to imagine and it being considered hard sci-fi made proud that I liked something hard. I'm not very intellectual so everyone just take my thoughts with a grain of salt. I hope you'll do more of these. Thanks Jonathan
@@dalejones4322 Cheers Dale! I’m glad you also connected with Frankenstein, More Than Human, and Blood Music!
Some of these books are among the best SF I have ever read and really would deserve a higher rating. Solaris and More Than Human. Except for Riverworld.
@@jeroenadmiraal8714 Glad you also loved those two!
Happy New Year Jonathan!
I agree with most of your picks here, Solaris is really good, I love the atmosphere it creates. It is a 5 star read for me, it's in my top 25. Eversion is excellent, 4stars from me. To your scattered bodies go another top 25 novel for me. Frankenstein, another 5 star read!
Unfortunately I didn't enjoy The Quantum Thief
@@paulallison6418 Happy New Year! I’m glad you enjoyed Solaris, Eversion, TYSGB, and Frankenstein!
Thanks, Jonathan - nice work!
100% Goodreads stars and enjoyment don't really correlate or at least correlate poorly as far as I'm concerned. I'm glad I've already read some of your picks :)
I'd like to put in a good word for Philip K. Dick's "the Game-Players of Titan" (3.65) and the "The Ganymede Takeover" (3.27) - what is it about outer-planet moons and stars? I really liked those two. Also, a book apparently so obscure it doesn't even have a rating: Leonard Daventry's "You Must Remember Us...?" I absolutely loved that book. Perhaps an idea for a future episode, unrated books ;) ?
@@plantwateringcitizen8787 Thanks for the recommendations! I don’t think I’ve ever read a book with 0 ratings on Goodreads. That’s a unique find!
Growing up in the seventies, Frankenstein, Solaris, More Than Human and Scattered Bodies were all part of canon. I read them maybe too young, loved them anyway, and must get back to them and see what my adult self makes of them. The others are on the TBR. Is there a canon these days, or are there just too many opinions?
@@richardostkamp3569 I’m not sure if there is a canon. And if there is it’s probably different depending on which book community on the internet you ask. But I’m glad you enjoyed those!
Thanks for the recommendation on "Klara and the Sun." I'll have to check it out. Written by a nobel laureate no less!
@@deronjohnson6224 I hope you enjoy it!
You had me at "Solaris"
@@dizzysnakepilot It’s so good!
@@WordsinTime It's one of a handful of books that sticks in my head even years after.
I’ve had the pleasure of reading 6 of these books
I tend to only look at Goodreads ratings to sort of validate my love or hate for a book. Haha. I think it’s only human nature to be curious if the consensus on something jibes with your own opinion
If I’m looking for a recommendation for something new to read , I’ll never look to Goodreads ratings . I’ll find like minded people who seem to like the same things I do. For example, that clever fellow on Words In Time😉. Thanks for the Ken Grimwood Replay suggestion. I thoroughly enjoyed it!!
I think you’ll enjoy Titan
@@clash5j Haha I’m glad you enjoyed Replay. I’m looking forward to Titan!
I have read Titan, and it is a joy to read...I love Varley's prose and he is one of my favorite writers. However, I think it is important to state that this book is more enjoyable when you have read all 3 in the trilogy. Enjoy!!
@@tazmane3 Thanks for the info, glad you liked it!
For Solaris People coming from the film were expecting a love stor
@@martinjovanovski1236 Interesting!
Good to see you put The Children of Men at number one. PD James was one of my favorite writers and almost of all her books were detective/suspense novels, so I was surprised and pleased how well she did in her one foray into sci-fi. She had a realistic and sometimes even brutal take on human failings and their capacity for evil. I learned recently that human sperm counts around the world have declined sharply for some reason though so far there’s no danger of the kind of scenario depicted in her book. But I understand there is a real demographic crisis in many countries. Terrific list overall. Be well. ⚛❤
@@FrankOdonnell-ej3hd I’m glad it also resonated with you!
Your description of the science in Quantum Thief very much reminds me of the Golden Age Trilogy by John C Wright. I think you would enjoy it. I am adding QT to my tbr list.
@@williamyowell2577 Thanks for the recommendation, I’ll look it up!
Readers today seem to want fast-paced action stories, rather than idea-driven. I have read Titan, but so long ago I don't remember it. Still sitting on my shelves, maybe I'll pull it out and give it a re-read. I just recently read "More Than Human" but I want to read it again, I feel like I missed stuff after talking to a fan of the book.
@@SoulsJourney It will be interesting to see your reactions on a re-read!
I suspect that part of the reason Frankenstein is rated so low is from readers who were disappointed because they expected it to be more of a "monster movie" kind of book, based on how Frankenstein is depicted in movies and pop culture.
@@Steve_Stowers Yes, I think that could be a common reason.
Read Eversion and was nonplussed with this one. Perhaps it was because the Reynolds book I read prior to this one was House of Suns, which was my favorite from him so far. Still, great list.
@@toddblanchard7765 House of Suns is my favourite too!
Good pick. Titan is an imaginative & entertaining novel.
Awesome! Looking forward to it!
Titan aside, these are all on my eternal TBR. Will be sure to go in with a 3.6* expectation so I can be blown away when they're 4*+. I wish we could curate ratings from certain people (those who gave Frankenstein, War & Peace, etc 4*+.)
@@dqan7372 Haha it’s good to set realistic expectations
Nice. I'm not sure what 'Goodreads' is but, this is a decent list. Lem, Sturgeon, Farmer, and of course Frankenstein are classics that everyone should read. Needing some more 'hard' SciFi after reading Iain Banks I got into Reynolds in the early 00's. it's great stuff, but he gets very repetitive alas. But I found my salvation in Rajaniemi. Everything he writes is just brilliant...
@@steved1135 Try Greg Bear, Larry Niven, Robert L. Forward, Gregory Benford...all cream of the crop hard SF
@@steved1135 Glad you also enjoyed these books. Perhaps you might also like Stephen Baxter or Greg Egan if you’re looking for more hard sci-fi.
@@DaBIONICLEFan Cheers. Yep, read them all too. I'm old... lol
@@WordsinTime Cheers. Yes, I've enjoyed their books as well.
Quantum Theif is the only one ive read, I liked it, 4 stars i think.
Eversion is on my tbr this month. I love early Reynolds, feel like he started going downhill right around Terminal World. Hoping Eversion is a return to form for him.
Hope you enjoy Eversion!
I loved Titan and all John Varley. Really amazing stuff. Early hard SF.
Awesome! Looking forward to it!
I've only read a few of these but gave them higher ratings each time. Eversion was five stars for me. The historic sailing ship beginning took me by surprise, but subsequent chapters following the same theme got me intrigued and I picked up that he was heading for something. By the time he got to the 'real' story I was hooked.
I thought Solaris the book (4.5 stars from me) was way better than the Hollywood George Clooney romance movie. The book has more challenging themes and asks deeper questions. The Russian movie headed in the right direction but seemed to be hampered by budget constraints.
And the whole Quantum Thief (4.5 stars) trilogy was extraordinary, although fiendishly difficult to get into. It's worth getting back into each book just to read the first lines. I've recently read his Summerland and Darkome. Both worth reading. I'm waiting for somebody to make movies of his work.
@@Kim_Miller I’m glad you also enjoyed those three! I haven’t watched the Solaris movies but I will probably check them out at some point.
“Big Dumb Object” sub-genre?! I confess I don’t know what that is, but I’m thinking Rama?
I don’t know Varley either, but I did wishlist his “The Ophiuchi Hotline” after listening to Andy Johnson’s pod/YT channel earlier today.
@@TuftyMcTavish Yes, books like Rendezvous with Rama, Eon, and Ringworld. Looking forward to reading Varley!
@ I LOVE BDO in that case! Huge fan of any kind of xeno-archaeology story 😍
Titan is a great book!
@@michaelpdawson That’s good to hear!
I loved To Your Scattered Bodies Go, and people judging on todays morals is wrong but I read it in the mid 70's, and I spend years reading up on Sir Richard Francis Burton afterwards. The Children of Men was a hard read, particularly as I saw the film first. I also read Dying Inside in the 70's and enjoyed it, but not as much as other Silverberg books.
@@kymmillbank8889 I’m looking forward to reading more Silverberg!
@@WordsinTime Try the Book of Skulls
In my opinion Redemption of time by Baoshu is underrated. It follows the remembrance of earths past trilogy by answering some plots and tying them. It has a really good ending. Definitely doesnt deserve 3.6 in good reads. My guess is people dont like the characterization. But if you just put that aside, its up there 5/5 for me
That's good to hear!
Great video Jonathan! I’ve never heard of John Varley, but the cover for Titan is really cool! Unfortunately I agree with the rating for Frankenstein. 😭
@@BookishChas Oh no haha. I’m looking forward to Titan!
Read and liked all but the Quantum thief, which I just bought. You have been reevaluated to slightly insane, from quite mad. You will always be one of my favorite para social friends, kind of like a favorite book charecter. Bilbo or no, Tom Bombadil. 😸😸😸😸😸😸
@@nightsazrael Slightly insane, I’ll take it!
Eversion is fantastic.
@@JLchevz Glad you liked it!
Do you have a good reads to follow?
@@DanEllingson23 No, I use it for info on books but I don’t post reviews there, just on RUclips.
YA/Romance gets 5 stars all the time from people that think it's Uber. Actual books rated by rational people get much lower scores.
@@jasongrundy1717 There are some readers that give 5 stars more frequently. And sequels often have higher averages too. So the ratings need to be taken in context.
Expectations. When you start a very hyped up book and expect something divine, it's hard to deliver.
The other you mentioned :can't connect.
One of my favorite quotes
To paraphrase one of my heroes, Gene Wolfe, the difference between fiction based on reality and fantasy is simply a matter of range. The former is a handgun. It hits the target almost close enough to touch, and even the willfully ignorant can’t deny that it’s effective. Fantasy is a sixteen-inch naval rifle. It fires with a tremendous bang, and it appears to have done nothing and to be shooting at nothing.
Note the qualifier “appears.” The real difference is that with fantasy-and by that I mean fantasy which can simultaneously tap into a cosmopolitan commonality at the same time as it springs from an individual and unique perspective. In this sort of fantasy, a mythic resonance lingers on-a harmonious vibration that builds in potency the longer one considers it, rather than fading away when the final page is read and the book is put away. Characters discovered in such writing are pulled from our own inner landscapes-the way Izzy would pull her numena from hers-and then set out upon the stories’ various stages so that as we learn to understand them a little better, both the monsters and the angels, we come to understand ourselves a little better as well.
Charles de Lint Memory & Dream
Frankenstein is a spectacular book; a 5-star read for me. But I agree that it may help to have read a lot of classics in order to understand the use of language and pacing. I have got to get to Solaris and Clara and the Sun. Two of my all-time favorite scifi books, Brave New World and A Canticle for Liebowitz, come out at >4 stars. But what does Goodreads know?? Of Mice and Men has a 3.89. 🤷
@@cherylmccutchan1282 Of Mice and Men is great!
"Of Mice and Men": it's probably another case of people being made to read it at school, and taking their revenge via Goodreads.
Perusing my recent reads on Goodreads, I gave 5 stars to The Man in the High Castle & the GR rating is only 3.60. Also, Tau Zero only got a 3.83 on GR.
@@MuleFace100 Those were both 4 stars for me!
Great video! How can we find your username on goodreads? :)
Thanks! I just use Goodreads for info on books. I don’t post reviews or ratings there, just on RUclips.
Goodreads ratings are a complete mess, I pay them barely any heed these days. I've definitely noticed a trend where users will rate books purely on enjoyment and nothing else. Themes, prose and everything else is disregarded. That's why so many shallow popcorn reads like Andy Weir and The Expanse have 4.5+ ratings, while something like Moby-Dick languishes at 3.5. It's very much a platform for the mainstream reader, that's why I only pay attention to the reviews of dedicated SF/genre readers such as yourself 👍
I think it’s a numbers game and books that appeal to a wide audience tend to have higher averages.
Nothing wrong with “enjoyment and nothing else”. If I come across a scifi book new to me, I’ll often go to Goodreads for a summary if the ratings are 4+, but I seldom read reviews, which are often so badly written, I’m embarrassed for the reviewer. Unfortunately, my interest is in a sub-subcategory of scifi, so I’m always at pains to find something new and worthwhile. Even entertaining. 😮
Funny, these are all still 75-85% really, a Distinction (B+) or High Distinction (A) in my university's grading system.
My theory on this is that compared to watching a movie or listening to an album, reading a book is a longer time commitment. So people only start/finish things they think they’ll enjoy/are enjoying and this is why the ratings tend to be higher for books on Goodreads than movies on Letterboxd or albums on RateYourMusic.
@@WordsinTime that makes sense actually. And I don't want to be unkind to authors so usually I won't review one I really disliked.
Anything that is required reading in school (like Frankenstein) is going to get punished on GR. People don’t like being required to read something whether they’re ready for it or not.
@@TysonVaughan Good point!
I liked To your scattered bodies go. The story was unique and entertaining. And I agree, some characters are annoying. But the story was still good. The problem for me is that, the whole series become long, and tedious, with too many characters, different points of view, and I just wanted to know about the tower.
@@livriomer I have heard similar things so I stopped after book one.
I really wanted to like Klara and the Sun but I just found it quite bland. It never seemed to have any momentum. Rick seemed to be the only decent human character. Also the whole reason the family wanted Klara in the first place was creepy.
@@mattbaldwin1150 That’s fair. The story is rather basic, so it’s the writing that has to grab you.
I found the first half of Solaris to be incredible and the second half to be incredibly boring. I understand why people love it though, wonderfully atmospheric stuff. More Than Human is great, Sturgeon's writing style flows nicely. Cheers!
@@SciFiFinds Glad you liked More Than Human!
for me Blood Music was a slog, partly because i'd read and loved the original Blood Music short story earlier
@@NickdeVera Interesting. I haven’t read the short story but I could see how that could be the case.
I believe there is quite a difference between the books rated 4 because they have sort of the same rating of 5, 4 and 3, the ones that have mostly 4s and the ones that are mostly 5s and then a lot of 1s. Next time perhaps a show of the rating structure, which is there on Goodreads, will be revealing on what people think of them.
@@Siderite Good points!
that's a good point. The spread of scores is really relevant.
Two of my most loathed SF books on this list. I am one of those naughty people on Goodreads bringing those ratings down.
I would not write this here if you had not actively ASKED for my opinion but here goes:
1) Frankenstein came across to me as being whiny and emo and overall, very poorly written and plotted. NOW I know that the author was in fact a teenager when she wrote it, so kudos for that certainly, nothing I wrote as a teen was as worth while, but still unenjoyable to read.
2) It is barely SF, I resented that. Using the new-fangled word 'Galvanic force' a few dozen times does NOT make it SF - I could probably put up with it better if it is not so widely hailed as one of the parents of SF. I personally disagree.
3) Dr Frankenstein is a psychopath, we do all realise that don't we? He does horrific things with no compunction, takes no responsibility for his actions, has no introspection beyond 'poor, poor me it is not fair my life has worked out so badly'. Much MUCH worse the author (whose voice is heard through the sea captain, whatshisname) seems to adore him and shows NO critical evaluation of him or his actions.
I could go on. Please don't hate on me, I was asked to comment....
@@OmnivorousReader Haha fair enough. Here are my thoughts:
1. I liked the prose, and to me it read as thoughtful and emotional as opposed to whiny and emo but the tone might not work for everyone.
2. I typically like my science fiction to be rooted in some level of science, but considering this was written in 1818 I was more forgiving of the lack of scientific detail.
3. Yes, Dr Frankenstein is foolish and selfish. I don’t think the book paints him as a hero, rather he has to live with the consequences of all his terrible decisions.
@@WordsinTime Fair enough and thank you for being nice about it! I am delighted there are an abundance of books out there and readers to enjoy all types of book. After finishing a recent re-read of Frankenstein, I went around asking people for their opinions about it, as I found it hard to integrate my experience with other peoples views and for a book I did not enjoy, it has certainly sparked a lot of thoughts and discussions and still is :)
Saying the main character in Dying Inside has "outdated attitudes" is a gross understatement, the character is an unapologetic racist (there's other problematic things but the racism is the most glaring). It's not like most older sci-fi, either, where you get one or two scenes where you think "that aged pretty poorly" but then you can get back to the good stuff, it felt like the book couldn't go five pages without some kind of racist remark or slur (I don't think the black college student he's writing a term paper for shows up once without the main character thinking the N word at him at least once). At one point I saw a Yiddish word I'd never heard before and jokingly thought "it's probably a racial slur" while I looked it up, and it turns out it was. It's just too much and added nothing to the story.
@@lurchEbean My interpretation was that was included to be critical of racism, but I agree that it made for uncomfortable reading.
Some suggestions I you don't hear much about from Book Tubers
Brittle Innings by Michael Bishop
Cryptonomicom by Neal Stephenson
Legacy of Heorot by Niven, Pournelle, and Barnes
The Night's Dawn Trilogy by Peter F. Hamilton
The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell (I have heard some talk about this one, but not many)
The Algebraist by Iain M. Banks
Armor by John steakley
The Engineer Trilogy by KJ Parker
Boy's Life by Robert McCammon (probably not mentioned much because it isn't SciFi)
Carrion Comfort by Dan Simmons
Janissaries by Jerry Pournelle
Expendable by James Alan Gardner
The Terror by Dan Simmons
Enemy Mine by Barry B Longyear
Inherit the Stars by James P Hogan
Macroscope by Piers Anthony
Monster Hunter International by Larry Correia
The Passage by Justin Cronin
The Coldfire Trilogy by CS Friedman
Wolf's hour by Robert McCammon
@@bpuryea Thanks for the recommendations!