Snyder just didn't get Superman. Dark and gritty is not Superman. That's Batman's territory. I cringed when I saw Superman in that black suit. Superman and Batman are on opposite sides of the same coin. Superman wears red and blue. Batman wears black and gray. Superman is friendly and approachable. Batman is grim and intimidating. Metropolis is bright and futuristic. Gotham is dark and gothic. Batman has no powers. His grim attitude is necessary. Superman is all powerful. He needs to be friendly to compensate for the fear humans might feel about such a powerful being and an alien being at that. Superman has to go that extra mile to be friendly. He can't afford to do anything that might make people view him as something dangerous. I like Snyder's Batman. I would have liked to have seen a Batfleck solo film. But the only time I saw what looked like the real Superman in all of the Snyderverse related films was in the theatrical Justice League end credits scene where Superman and the Flash are going to race. That scene was written by Joss Whedon. Whedon also finally gave us a live action shot of Batman crouched on a gargoyle in the beginning of JL. Whedon's JL was a disappointment. But it still has some of my favorite moments.
Comics accurate? No DC project ever produced is comic accurate. Gunn had already stated on his IG it won't be comic accurate this is why it starts off not accurate lol
Well to be fair, there are varying shades of comic book accuracy. You can talk about the suits, character origins and motivations, power sets and storylines. Everyone has different goal posts.
One thing I find kinda funny is a lot of these people will harp on and on about how supposedly awful the new suit looks, and yet a lot of those same people will absoloutely GLAZE over Hugh Jackman's Wolverine suite! Like, am I missing something here? Where's the consistency?
Yeah, right? Some of them will say it’s because of the trunks, but I think it’s because the classic red trunks look is something that Snyder didn’t do, so it’s become the primary target of their disdain.
I love the traditional Superman suit but it shouldn't be a deal breaker, especially the "S" Remember how strange the Kryptonian scenes seemed in the 1978 movie, at first? I hated the ice world effects, at first, now, I expect them. What would bother me is if the script is a mess and the actors fail at their parts... but I don't think that is going to happen. I HOPE it isn't going to happen.
@@lumerarkenstone The audience went nuts when he put in the mask. I got so tired of all the black leather. It was like a breath of fresh air when I saw the bright yellow vests in X-Men First Class. I remember Olivia Munn fought to have a comics accurate costume in Age of Apocalypse. Turned out to be the only thing anyone remembers.
You realize that these were the same types of people who wanted to boycott Michael Keaton as Batman, who now regard as the best ever. Just keep yer trap shut til the movie comes out.
The Snyder crew is a very small minority. MOS was NOT a big enough hit to justify a pure sequel and BVS was an abomination. Henry was a perfectly fine Superman. But this is NOT 1990 and they are replacing Chris Reeve here..
Think people are so attached to the actors that they don't think about what could be. We've seen how Snyder cultists have treated Tyler Hoechlin and Brandon Routh's return in Crisis On Infinite Earths, it's like anybody who might be cast as Superman is somehow automatically insulting Henry Cavill. The image of Cavill's Superman has warped these people's minds and their perception of reality. It's very possible that David Corenswet might surpass Henry Cavill like Tyler Hoechlin had, of course Snyder cultists can't move past the fact that Cavill is no longer Superman that they can't comprehend it. If the new film fails it won't be because they're aren't carrying on from a version that was incredibly divisive where Supes was a Dark Knight wannabe who can fly the entire time. The most Superman we got in movies in the last decade was Captain America in the MCU.
Very true about Cap... Chris Evans absolutely nailed that role from the drop. I still love First Avenger and count it as one of my favorite MCU films. But all due props to director Joe Johnston (who also did the Rocketeer) and screenwriters Markus & McFeely, who went on to become the golden boys of the MCU.
@prodigioussaps DCU Superman suit has MCU Captain America vibes with the panelling. The Rocketeer James Horner score sounds like if he did a Superman score.
@prodigioussaps DCU Superman suit has MCU Captain America vibes with the panelling. The Rocketeer James Horner score sounds like if he did a Superman score.
Minority opinion, but I kind of preferred Cavill's performance as Superman in Joss' cut and the glimpse we saw of him in Black Adam versus how Snyder directed him. I really enjoy the Snyder Cut of Justice League, mind you, and it is one of my favorite DC film of all time and I think it is ZS's best DC film, but I enjoy a hopeful Superman and HC really wasn't allowed to play that type of character. We're told he would eventually get there, but everything in the nightmare future segments really say the opposite. Zach's stuff was like 75% baked and needed probably a producer or more input from Nolan on how to make his movies more viable for cinemas. I applaud that he had big vision and really thought it out and was going somewhere with the story, and built a universe, but it never came across (outside his 4 hour JL cut) as fully finished as a packaged deal you could deliver to audiences (I once showed BVS to a classroom of college students when I taught overseas for a movienight, they couldn't really understand why Batman was fighting Superman and didn't get the movie and preferred Begins and Reeve's Superman over it).
Agreed - I always liked Cavill and it’s a shame he never got a chance to shine, IMO. I’m kind of glad the Black Adam sequel didn’t happen, but it would have been really cool to have Cavill in at least one more Superman film, playing the character the way he was clearly looking forward to, “joyful”. Who knows, maybe someday we’ll get an ‘Elseworlds’ Superman where he can do that. But seems unlikely at this point. Thanks for your comments! Cheers 👊
@@prodigioussaps Yes, this is what I meant, the "joyful" representation of the character, akin to how Reeves. Not the cheesy one lines or bad cgi, but the charisma that HC brought to those scenes and the more hopeful scores with hints of the Williams theme. Even if you give BVS back those 30 minutes of missing Clark Kent scenes, the film as a whole has many flaws as a movie. It boggles my mind how hard ZS fans can't see these movie flaws and instead view it as an excellent film. MoS further showed ZS never really understood the character, but clearly prefers the Injustice version. ZS fans will cite Cavill as being their favorite actor to play Superman and MoS as being their favorite Sup film. They've fallen for ZS's versions of the characters, but they're not per say the one's from the comics. Then double standard arises when DC fans express that they dislike ZS's take because it deviates from the comics, for it shows they don't want a "Superman" movie, they just want a ZS Cavill movie, or nothing else.
@@Joshuadmathews Justice League '17 was terrible but Henry Cavill getting the rare opportunity to actually act like Superman was by far the best part of it. He has absolutely everything and deserved a non-Snyder Man of Steel sequel.
Chris and Henry are my favorite Superman actors. I enjoyed "Man of Steel". As far as the trunks. I believe I'm one the few people who understand the purpose of trunks. I still don't like them but I will tolerate them. That being said, I hate the zippers going up the back. I wish they made super suits look more practical, like X-Men suits. I'd rather the emblem was a flap that goes across the zipper in the front. I don't even like the way zippers are on wetsuits. My main anticipation about the suit is will they show how the cape stays connected. Have you ever wondered how his cape stays in place? I had to us a safety pin to hold my bath towel on, when I was a kid. (LOL)
1:00 I’m very much not in that camp. If it is a success, more power to them. I am not at all excited. But I can also admit that not everything has to be for me. I don’t hope that they fail unless there’s something terribly problematic. I’ll add this so people know that we aren’t all built the same: I don’t like most of what I’ve seen of the Gunn-verse but I don’t hope it fails just because…I loved the best of the Snyderverse and wish it were still around. I can understand resentment. I don’t get the active hate… 💩 I just got it. They/we blame Gunn for a lot of what went wrong with the Snyderverse. I’ll bet that’s it. They want the thing that killed their puppy to get killed, too. I can understand that. I don’t feel the same but if that’s the motivation, I do get it.
In my opinion just my take is that Superman needed a break. Gunn should've just made a Justice Society movie based in the 50s-60s. Then he couldve made the Authority more based off in the late 90s and early 00s. Showing us that shift in superheroes from colorful Wonderful Beings like the Justice Society to AntiHeroes like the Authority. And thats where Superman would come as this glimmer of hope and wonder for the world. Where we would see Supes vs The Authority. Batman would come after as a more Established vigilante who has been kicking it since the late in Gotham. Just my take tho
Man, I would’ve been down for all that in a heartbeat. Especially the old school JS. I’m sure plenty of that sort of thing is coming, though. I’m optimistic.
@@prodigioussaps Do you think that James can present us something out his comfort zone(Suicide Squad and Guardians) with a character of Superman Calibre?
Honest answer is I don’t know! A lot of what I’ve seen makes me hopeful. I know he can tell a good story and he’s good at making fantastical things seem plausible. But ultimately it will remain an unknown until the movie comes out.
When I heard Gunn has this - I was pretty excited. I enjoyed SR. I enjoyed MOS, I enjoyed the JL stuff - none of them are perfect. But they all have good moments. I just want an enjoyable Superman film that evokes the way I felt about STM back in 78. I don't need a revolutionary take on it - I just want a good Superman film with loads of action and a bit of comedy. That's all !
First, I love listening to you guys because you have the foresight and intelligence when you break down movies and fan reaction, you guys are pretty much spot on! With that said I want post my opinion on your opinion. Yes, you are right that many look at new content based on original concepts and see negative results without watching the movie/television show. I can be a person in that camp because over the years of being a fan of Superman, I come to know some good Supermen (George Reeves, Christopher Reeve, Henry Cavill) and some not so great (everyone else, OPINION). Fans are frustrated with how Superman has been treated as far as story is concerned and we haven't really gotten a solid story. The recent Superman and Lois was a good rendition of Superman, but I think we want to see more Kryptonian and less human in Superman. Yeah, his ability to live as human as Clark Kent is interesting but marred down in soap operas. When the cape comes out, then we perk up. Smallville was different because we see Clark Kent before becoming Superman and he even rejects the idea of becoming a hero. Interesting but we are treated to hours of filler time, which is where the soap opera comes in. But to get back to the point, Superman needs to be treated as something serious but adventurous. WB has yet to figure that out because we are treated to a live action cartoon. Again fans are frustrated that whenever WB does Superman or any other character, it bombs (for any number of reasons) so who saves the day, BATMAN! Always Batman (Mark Hamill Joker cue)!!! And then the fans see Batman and all is well for few years. Since DC preceded Marvel, why can't they be the pioneers of successful animated/live action medium? DC animated shows and movies are top notch!!! Marvel animated, not so much but I know there are people will respectfully disagree and I would agree some of Marvel animated is good (original SpiderMan and SpiderMan and his Amazing Friends and The Incredible Hulk circa 60s thru 80s). But Marvel television shows and movies have met with such success, they have become the juggernaut of film as DC is still trying to figure our what works. They find a formula but then do something so stupid that they end up blaming everyone else for its failure. Ironically, WB acts like the Saturday morning villains we grew up watching on those old cartoons! And finally, toxic fans. There will always be a toxic fan somewhere in this world because someone hates something that someone worked hard on creating. Where it becomes a problem is that the Internet has become the medium of choice for toxic fans to pollute fan clubs and general enjoyment of an event. Mike Tyson has said, "Social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it." Myself as a writer and graphic artist has bumped into toxic people when I post my work. It is a form of vocal jealously that we are experiencing 100-fold because people can hide behind their keyboard. Think about a public event where everyone is enjoying a show or sport but there is one person that has to ruin it for everyone! And the sad thing is that we focus on the negative and forget the positive (or in some cases the respectful critique of a show or event). Anyways, I apologize for the long post but this is something that I speak my mind on hoping to influence others to find a way to deal with toxic fans....maybe we should not call them fans, just toxic and we need a safe way to dispose of it. Thanks again for the video, I will try to keep my next post under a couple dozen words or less (BUT DON'T HOLD ME TO IT!!!LOL).
Totally agree! I think you're spot on about the jealousy factor, most people don't even realize what's motivating them to lash out like that. There also seems to be a distortion in a lot of people's minds about opinions vs. fact... especially with the people predicting this movie's failure based on their opinion of the suit or whatever. Also agree about SUPERMAN & LOIS... great version of Superman, but yeah, jeez, the unending soap opera drama was exhausting for me. There wasn't enough levity, IMO. Always enjoy reading your comments Tyrone, don't hold back 👊
Yeh, me too. I have hope for this Gunn movie, but skepticism, also. I really want it to work out. I'd love a new version of the great modern myth of the man from Krypton. I have skepticism about Hollywood generally in the 2020s. There is no reason to hate the Snyderverse but there are reasons to dislike it- I felt it was far too violent and it made Superman a dark and dangerous brooding force, it harped on the xenophobia and demigod angles too much, and had an insufferable Batman and Lex Luthor. Lois found out about Superman's secret Identity before the story really began. Part of the fun of the Story is watching it dawning on Lois is that Superman, her main romantic crush, is actually that unimpressive Clark Kent from a rural area of Kansas. It's a major beat in the story. (Batman, if he really existed, should sue Synder for libel!) I hated the Snyder Lex Luthor... a pimply spoiled, troubled brat of a man? seriously? the greatest criminal mind of his generation and he's insane because he was abused by his dad? Lex is supposed to be intimidating and impressive, a business man and Villain. Some of the animation does the Character better than the Snyder live action movie, did. I like Cavill, really do but something is off about his version of Superman. I like him as an actor. He did his best with script he was handed. I'll always believe that Christopher Reeve and Dean Cain did the best that can be done with the Alien Kryptonian. Without great villains and friends, the Superman saga falls apart. What I believe is each generation is going to have is it's own version of Superman, different things are going to be emphasized and some will appeal solely to that generation, some to the general population, some won't.. In short, it's a generational thing.
@@prodigioussaps Thanks. I'm definitely blushing! Jimmy was in the movie? He obviously made no impression on me, of any kind. I felt one of saddest parts of the movie is how little we got to see Clark Kent being Clark Kent. Without the newsroom, and Superman's best friends, the story is only half told. I know, they told a protracted story about how he wandered about in early adulthood.. but that isn't Clark Kent, the reporter, who lives a very human life. The best part of the Superman story is how a super-powered alien, from a distant advanced, lost civilization, enjoys being a human being.
Having seen the trailer, I'm looking forward to the new Superman film. It's a shame it's not Cavill- I think he was a good choice for Superman, but got stuck with lousy scripts and plots, and it feels like he got shafted (and then again on The Witcher). Another thing about the Gunn movie that looks good- COLOUR! Gunn actually allows colour in his films. Snyder blue filters everything into this dull, dark, incredibly grey world that bears no resemblance to the real world, let alone a comic book world. Remember that scene in Man of Steel where Clark flies above the clouds into full sunlight and it still looks grey and overcast? Ridiculous. I have two concerns about the upcoming film. The first is Corenswet- he's an unknown factor to me. It remains to be seen whether he can carry the film. The other is the number of other superheroes we see just in the trailer. Do we really need Guy Gardner, Mr Terrific, Metamorpho AND Hawkgirl in the film too? Still looking forward to it though!
I don't know that "Superman" will fail, I'm just not a fan of James Gunn and the fleeting looks we've seen of the movie so far. "Guardians Of The Galaxy" was fun but i can't get over him turning the Nova Corps into a space police department full of sad sacks. Vol. 2 was just a mess, plain and simple. And pound for pound, I'll take "Suicide Squad" over "THE Suicide Squad" any day of the week. SS was by-the-numbers, but solidly so. I'd love for them to #ReleaseTheAyersCut, because it was probably a more intense and better movie. TSS was a looser and messier thing. You introduce characters just to immediately kill them off? And it was both bloody and profane to exactly no point. I love a good bloody and profane movie ( Hands for "Robocop?" ✋), but none of it advanced the plot or the characters. As far as our first looks at "Superman," I'm not a fan of the "Kingdom Come" shield, and the suit just looks comical overall, like they brought in the costume designers who did that abortive Justice League TV show pilot a couple decades ago. Why bring in SO many other heroes to tell a SUPERMAN story? Or bring in Lex-freakin'-Luthor AGAIN. Learn from both the Nolan and Webb Batman movies and PICK A DIFFERENT VILLAIN from Supes' rogues' gallery. Can you say BRAINIAC?! I'm not saying that NOTHING good will come of this ("Man Of Steel" is MUCH better than I was lead to believe), but it's hard to see it just now.
A few doubters may have vitriol, and we notice that first; I am not interested in their 'take,' but I don't want to engage in the 'come-back' put-downs their worst may adore (fan culture can be better than that); at our best, we should enjoy the new wave I see coming (even FF's retro-futurism may tie in), one that also has authentic visions with the Swamp Thing/Sgt. Rock/ other projects. There is no shortage of talent eager to enter the fray.
I am not hoping it fails, but this does not look like it will be a hit. The look of the characters, the feel of the promos, I just do not see a win for DC or the fans. Some people see The Batman as a win, yet Batman was unintelligent and had little training.
@prodigioussaps was it though? For a Batman film, in a superhero positive time, with no real competition at the boxofice... inflation adjusted, not good for a Batman film.
Dude, come on. It made 772.3 million. They're making a sequel. The Penguin spin-off series is also a huge success. It was a success. This isn't really open to debate.
@@prodigioussapsYou ignored everything I said in relation to its flaws and the comparison of tickets sold... Also year 2 batman lost to the Riddler... Literally still the smartest detective in the world, and they made him rely on street cops to help solve riddles... Year 2 was more of a mess than year one. If you can't even admit the flaws of The Batman, how can we accept your judgement on any project?
James Gunn is a good director and some of the stuff from the trailer looks promising. I am not so keen on the heavy leanings toward the "silver age" comics, a.k.a. the worst era in comic history. Like for instance the inclusion of Krypto the dog made me cringe. It just kinda feels like he's trying to turn DC into Marvel, which they are not. At least not for the last 35-40 years. Anyway I'm going to keep an open mind and hope for the best but my expectations are not that high currently. FYI, I am admittedly also not a huge fan of the circus strong man undies and I find the choice to make the suit baggy and loose fitting odd. Makes Sups look small and weak. More like a little kid in a Halloween costume than a legit superhero. Also, not a big fan of scruffy haired, emo Clark.
Maybe we'll stop being negative, when DC starts making non-stupid decisions. If they keep pumping out trash, the only way to change that is to give an overwhelming negative response to their crap ideas. Imagine what Sonic the Hedgehog would have been, if everyone sat on their hands about the brutal design, to not be negative. What would Alita Battle Angel look like, if not for the helpful negative response from the internet? When something sucks so hard, like the new Superman look, and no one wants to be "negative', the filmmakers will just continue to think we are just marks that will buy any crap they put out. Make your voices heard! All of James Gunn's ideas that he has announced are stupid. We don't need an origin story and goody-two-shoes Superman. We don't want stories from fringe DC characters. We don't want to be bombarded with TV series spinoffs, and which makes people just give up on trying to follow it all. Let him know!!
Good poimt. I am disappointed Henry Caville didn't really get to make a great Superman Movie - I thought he performed well, but the scripts were q let down and would have been happy to see him carry on as Superman. But I also respect the fact that Henry now has baggage of a complex franchise that would have serious held back a reboot. I just want Superman to succeed (not any particular actor). More than anything I want young kids to go into a theater, see Superman, and go "Wow! that's what a hero should be!" If only I could be 7 years old again! ;-)
Henry was great! ESPECIALLY considering the circumstances. There were several moments in MoS where I was thinking... there he is! Particularly the interview scene with Lois with the two-way mirror. I was actually looking forward to his aborted comeback... I think it would have been class to give him one more picture, but I understand WB is trying to claw its way out of a hole now and likely doesn't have the budget for two big-screen Supermen.
I'm a fan of Snyder's movies. Man of Steel and Zack Snyder's Justice League are two of my favorite comic book movies of all time, with ZSJL even placing in my top 3 alongside The Dark Knight and Logan. BUT I do not understand the vehemence with which fans of Snyder's films will say that James Gunn's reboot is going to fail. Based on what? James Gunn has not made a single thing for the comic book genre (for Marvel or DC) that failed. All of the Guardians of the Galaxy movies did well at the box office, Peacemaker was a very popular show, and The Suicide Squad despite not doing great at the box office due to coming out in the aftermath of the pandemic did well enough to get WB to ask him to help lead the DC reboot. And sure, there's people that don't like some of those projects, everything has someone who doesn't like it. But the statistics indicate that the majority of people who watch Gunn's superhero stuff like it. Some people like myself even think his contributions to the genre are consistently great. The numbers simply do not support the idea that this movie is going to crash and burn. The entire basis for Snyder fans saying that this is going to fail is that Gunn's take isn't Snyder's take. That's it. You have nothing else to base that on. "But if Snyder was doing this, it'd make a billion dollars." Based on what? None of Snyder's DC movies cracked a billion. "Well, that's because none of those were his cut of the movie." Man of Steel was. That didn't crack a billion. And sure, this movie is probably not going to make a billion dollars. That's not the rubric for success. The rubric for success is the movie turning a profit. Lots of Marvel movies never came close to a billion and have been heralded as successes. This is a reboot. Of course it won't crack a billion on it's opening outing. The only way that'll happen is if it blows everyone away and turns out to literally be the best comic book movie of all time. Anyways, I digress. The point is, there is not a single reason at this point to believe this movie is going to fail. People are just upset that their favorite adaptation of DC isn't continuing.
There's obviously toxic Snyder fans, but there is also this toxic positivity surrounding Gunn's new Superman. You don't have to be a Snyder fan to call out the Slouchy, Biker Boys suit, Superman wears in this film, or even the Wes Andersen color grading. The tone of the teaser is not too dissimilar from Man of Steel, yet there's this unjustified "Hope" meme given in many reviews and comments of the teaser which just screams cult (Gunn-sanity?)
People weeping over a movie trailer.... any of the comments filled with emoji's. People trying to project success on this make as much sense as someone who says this will fail. They don't know and it holds back any real discussion of the film
@@Dnico78 So people shouldn't express their excitement or emotions at all? Where does one draw the line? Nobody knows if the film will succeed, but I do know that I'm fucking excited for it and obviously I'm not alone. People expressing emotions you don't share may be annoying to you, but it's not "toxic".
@@prodigioussaps I'm real happy for you. I've been a Superman fan my entire life. I've read, watched and listened to every iteration of the character I could find. Many of those versions excited and interested me, some did not. This doesn't. Many others have expressed frustration as well. Your positivity becomes toxic when you tell me there's something wrong with the way I, and others feel about this new version. That's it. I don't care if you love it. Just don't crap on people who have concerns. I listened to people who love it, trying to understand why and yet I can't get the same treatment back.
Come on now. We’re not crapping on people who have concerns. Even we have concerns and we’ve made that plain in many of our videos right from the drop. This video is a response at people who are forecasting the film’s failure and even appear to WANT it to fail for whatever reason, which frankly I think is ridiculous.
I think that's a valid concern, and one we've expressed in earlier videos, particularly the first few episodes we did after the Gunn/Safran hire announcement. I think we can rest assured there WILL be Gunn-style humor in this movie, because it's in all his movies. There will be whimsical moments, no question. We've already seen some of them in the Cleveland shoot. But really I don't know what to expect, because Gunn has never taken on a project like this before. But one reason I think his Superman might not be as high on the Gunn-goofy scale as Guardians and Suicide Squad is that Gunn speaks of Superman with a reverence I haven't heard him use with any other character. Unlike the Guardians, whom he really knew nothing about before Feige suggested he take on that project, Gunn has LOVED Superman deeply since he was a kid and has stated that Donner's Superman changed his life. But that's it, beyond that we're just going to have to wait and see.
I just don’t think this new film is aimed at adults. Elements like a flying dog and characters such as Mister Terrific might work in a children’s comic, but they feel out of place in a live-action movie. Superman: The Movie (STM) understood the importance of verisimilitude-taking the subject matter seriously and making audiences believe in its world. That’s why it still stands unmatched. No Superman film since 1978 has captured that same magic, and I don’t expect this upcoming movie to break the trend. Sure, the film will have an audience-primarily a teenage one. But imagine a scene where a flying dog rescues Lois, catches a falling helicopter, drops her safely on a rooftop, barks, and then flies off. It’s absurd and would completely undermine the tone of a serious Superman story. If you’re okay with Superman walking his dog on a lead, both of them wearing capes, then that’s the kind of world you’re embracing. The bottom line is this: no one has been able to make a Superman movie like Richard Donner did. No one has come close to injecting the same heart into the story. That’s why Superman Returns fell flat. That is why Henry Cavill only had one solo movie. And it’s why this new film seems to rely on an ensemble of superheroes with ridiculous names. The harsh reality is that there hasn’t been a worthwhile Superman movie in nearly 50 years. Donner understood the character, the tone, and how to make the audience believe. Sadly, that understanding seems to have been lost.
@Chris-B. Well yes. Hell yes I am okay with a world where Krypto exists. Consider this... verisimilitude does not mean no flying dogs. You need to expand your idea of what verisimilitude can do. Verisimilitude does not mean stick to what you consider to be plausible. It means portraying the implausible as if it were real. A flying man is just as ridiculous as a flying dog. But on film, if done right, anything can work. James Gunn has already accomplished this... he made Starro the Conqueror a horrifically convincing (and even somehow sympathetic) villain in a live-action superhero movie. Because he showed us what it might be like if Starro were real, and treated the source material with respect. Don't try to imagine how silly it would be if Krypto existed. Just accept the fact that he does. Gunn knows how to pull off crazy shit like this... although I'm not sure why you lumped Mister Terrific into that same category. Do I know his SUPERMAN will succeed? No, but I am optimistic and increasingly more and more so the more I learn about this movie.
@@prodigioussaps Thanks for your well thought out reply, and I appreciate all the points you made. I know you suggested that Superman flying was as ridiculous as a dog. I agree, it isn't realistic, but STM was so grounded that Donner made you believe it was real. I can never believe a flying dog is real. In the balcony scene when Superman says to Lois, Peter Pan flew with children Lois in a fairytale. That was a genius line by Tom Mankiewicz to bring reality to the scene. It tells the audience that this is really happening. The latest trailer introduces us to Superman in a baggy suit, lying injured, which was a huge mistake. It wasn't a heroic introduction to the character. He is then dragged off by a dog in a cape. Then the movie follows the same 'crash bang wallop' tropes we have been subjected to for the last 20 years. Explosions, lasers, buildings toppling, and huge monsters. I have no doubt it will have a huge following, but a cartoony, over-the-top Superman film just isn't for me. I am not the core audience for this movie, and I accept that. To end on a positive, I wish this movie all the success in the world. As a six-year-old, STM touched me in a way that no other superhero film has before. How it made me feel has resonated throughout my entire life. I have been involved in several STM projects. I have visited countless filming locations. I have not only climbed inside the original prop rocket ship (for a photo shoot) that landed in Smallville, but I have also lifted the original hatch and climbed down the very pit where Clark found the green crystal that changed his destiny. I have become very close to the movie that inspired direction in my life in a positive way.
Dude, the problem isn't the briefs, it's how baggy and plain his suit looks, he's supposed to be an alien and that suit makes him look like a budget cosplayer
Keep in mind you’re not seeing him as he looks in Gunn’s camera lens. You’re seeing him in leaked paparazzi shots from angles he’s not being filmed from. Take a step back, don’t be so quick to fling poo.
Also... how does being an alien translate to tight clothing, anyway? I mean I get the classic esthetic of having a form-fitting spandexy superhero outfit, but what does that have to do with being an alien?
@@prodigioussaps for Christopher Reeves it was ok to wear the simple spandex because that movie was made in the 70's, we're well beyond that and fabrics have improved
There is a hate-o-sphere out there that will automatically condemn any movie before they have even seen a trailer. This, because the images they have seen are not what THEY would have done. That, and trolls/bots that just want to try to make a project fail.
The problem is folks who didn't like Snyder vision made it theremission to slam folks who did. So what I'm seeing now the folks that were bullied (Snyder bros) are now doing the bullying to Gunn fans.
I don't think that's accurate. In my experience here, SnyderBros interpret any criticism of Snyder's movies as a personal attack, no matter how valid that criticism is. That doesn't equate to being bullied.
@@prodigioussaps In my experience I saw Snyder bros state what they liked from a scene then they get attacked for how stupid they are for liking the scene. For example, a Snyder Bro will say, "hey O like the Pa Kent death scene" and you would reply with..............? From what I seen the reply is "oh that scene is stupid how can you like that" which some would take as a personal attack. I'm just saying don't attack and you won't get attack. This is coming from a guy who thinks Snyder and Gunn have no idea what they are doing when it comes to comic films. I give credit to everything that is MCU to Feige. The directors are just taking orders and following a blueprint which is why outside the MCU their films are duds.
We have never said anything like “how can you like that” or called anyone stupid for liking something, and I can’t speak for anyone who has. We state our own opinions, which granted are strongly stated opinions, but if people take it the wrong way I can’t do anything about it.
I'm all about criticism but DC fans are negative to a point where it's hard to be a fan. There is plenty to dislike but honestly the more I see of Superman the more I have faith. The DCEU failed so the idea that it was some perfect franchise is just false. Money talks and it failed
DC films excel when WB hires the right director (or team behind a project) passionate about the project and leave that director alone to do their stuff. The moment they interfere with that vision, tamper with the finished film in editing room and change their mind about everything, that's when their films suck. Donner's Superman, excellent film. Then they fire Donner, keep half of his film, then hire a different director who excels in making things more comical, write a new script, and then have that director film all the new scenes and Frankenstein Donner's shots into his shots... oh wait... what movie am I talking about again...
I like the trunks. I didn't like msn of steel BUT imo it seems Gunn is setting up this film to fail. The fiest photo of David in the suit was not what imo should've been the first photo we see. I feel he's lacking a strong voice to tell him the business side of film making which is, give the first photo of your comic book film protagonist a good photo of the lead actor in the suit to excite fans. Imo he's approaching this film as an auteur director and has no one to challenge him on the business end of things. Like the suit. It has a lot i like but its ill fitting imo. In addition to him having no reshoots, it implies this film is neaely perfect in his eyes and so if its not well received when released he'll only have himself to blame. Pair all this with him and the cast not going to comic con. Yikes. I want a great superman film to enjoy and instead i feel im getting james gunn pet project with it being almost intentionally set up to fail as a block buster film. And supermen legacy and dc films cant afford to be treated like some small indie drama. It needs some business minded co-captain to guide the ship through rough waters
@@prodigioussaps it's part of a larger discussion around Gunn not having a business minded voice to help him make this film a financial success. It's a piece of a larger pie that worries some superman and DC fans like myself. If you want to ignore the first reveal fine we can. It still won't change the idea that Gunn is not doing what he can or should to make sure this film financially does well like set leaks of I'll fitting costumes, not attending with the cast comic con the year before his film comes out, saying he doesn't need any reshoots aka meaning the footage he has is exactly what he wants so if it ends up divisive with fans he has his own self to blame by not scheduling reshoots in case he needed them, etc. If this film does well Gunn gets all the praise. If it doesn't do well the buck stops with him and no one else to blame
Sheesh, I'm sorry but this reads like a conspiracy theory, like the missing chapter of Loose Change. Let's not forget Gunn wrote and directed three of the MCU's most successful films. I'm pretty sure the man knows what he's doing. Looking at all these things you mention and saying it spells the pattern of doom is crazy to me. But hey if that's your jam, good for you.
@@prodigioussaps I'm not saying it's a pattern of doom, it's a pattern of CONCERN. I want a financially successful DC instead the chaos we've gotten for years from executive mismanagement. I like the guardian films but no they aren't the most successful MCU films. Not a single guardians film made a billion $. Avengers films, Iron man 3, Captain America civil war, black panther, Captain marvel, spiderman far from home and no way home, multiverse of madness, wakanda Forever all made more $ than every guardians film. The Suicide Squad flopped. Hopefully superman legacy does well. It's not a conspiracy I've just listed actions of James Gunn is all and why they concern or make some fans nervous. If it doesn't raise concerns for you that's good. I'm happy for you.
You're killing me, Smalls. The GoTG films rank higher than practically half the MCU catalog and were all among the highest grossing films of each year they came out. No, they weren't billion-dollar tent pole films but they were all hugely successful. And the Suicide Squad came out when the DCEU was already in decline, which is a damn shame. Everything from Birds of Prey onward flopped. Gunn has Peter Safran there to handle the business end. We need Gunn doing what he does best, which is write and direct. I don't want him at SDCC, I want him working. I don't want him doing reshoots if he doesn't freaking need to do reshoots. I don't ignore the first suit reveal, I think it was great and created intrigue and got people talking, which is what you want. Look at us, here we are right now still talking about it. The Cleveland shoot, too, got him loads of free publicity. Yeah people criticize suits, so what. Wait for the trailers and then see what you think. All this hand-wringing, negative nancy talk is silly. Could it fail? Sure, but no, I don't see what you're seeing. I think you're making mountains out of imaginary molehills.
Succeed or fail, I'm not interested it. I won't be seeing at the cinema. I really like Cavill as an actor and recasting him after we were promised more leaves such a bad taste, I'm not watching. That doesn't mean I liked all of the Superman movies he was in or the creative choices, only that I want him in the role for a true Superman movie. I have the Christopher Reeve movies, I don't need more.
@@prodigioussaps because I've watched a few videos in the past and agreed with you on the classic costume elements and am interested in being up to date. Why shouldn't I comment? I had something to say and it was related to the subject. You seemed to just want to paint all of those who don't like the new movie purely as Snyder fans, yet I don't like any of the Snyder movies. I just like and want Cavill in the role. That's what I wanted to say. Why do you have the comments open in the first place 👀🤷♂️
@@prodigioussaps it's just interesting to see differing opinions; to see how the wind is blowing on public perception of the upcoming movie. It's not a pure indicator of the chances of success for the movie, but it could give an idea. I hope people like it, I just have too bad of a taste with how poorly Cavill has been handled. If Cavill ends up playing Wolverine, maybe I'll mellow and watch this Superman later on and enjoy it 🤷♂️👍
I agree he was treated badly, but I hate the idea of a true Superman fan missing out on potentially the greatest thing since Superman II. You’ve got nearly a whole year to find peace on this issue… what would Superman do? 👊 Sorry I got snippy, after dealing with so many combative commenters I get a little knee-jerky sometimes. Working on it.
You don’t just pick the next guy and put him in a cosplay costume to do Superman. Especially when you’re gonna spend 250 million dollars doing it.
Maybe his mom made it?
The suit is amazing. Some of us see that it's a great creative choice
Snyder just didn't get Superman. Dark and gritty is not Superman. That's Batman's territory. I cringed when I saw Superman in that black suit. Superman and Batman are on opposite sides of the same coin. Superman wears red and blue. Batman wears black and gray. Superman is friendly and approachable. Batman is grim and intimidating. Metropolis is bright and futuristic. Gotham is dark and gothic. Batman has no powers. His grim attitude is necessary. Superman is all powerful. He needs to be friendly to compensate for the fear humans might feel about such a powerful being and an alien being at that. Superman has to go that extra mile to be friendly. He can't afford to do anything that might make people view him as something dangerous. I like Snyder's Batman. I would have liked to have seen a Batfleck solo film. But the only time I saw what looked like the real Superman in all of the Snyderverse related films was in the theatrical Justice League end credits scene where Superman and the Flash are going to race. That scene was written by Joss Whedon. Whedon also finally gave us a live action shot of Batman crouched on a gargoyle in the beginning of JL. Whedon's JL was a disappointment. But it still has some of my favorite moments.
DCU is gonna be a success because it's comic accurate ❤🙌🔥
Oh, I hope so.
Comics accurate? No DC project ever produced is comic accurate. Gunn had already stated on his IG it won't be comic accurate this is why it starts off not accurate lol
Well to be fair, there are varying shades of comic book accuracy. You can talk about the suits, character origins and motivations, power sets and storylines. Everyone has different goal posts.
@@RayAnand00 that's not going to be the reason it's success.
He has a really great line-up of talent taking on truly authentic takes on the comics that get the tone right, at least it looks darn good now.
One thing I find kinda funny is a lot of these people will harp on and on about how supposedly awful the new suit looks, and yet a lot of those same people will absoloutely GLAZE over Hugh Jackman's Wolverine suite! Like, am I missing something here? Where's the consistency?
Yeah, right? Some of them will say it’s because of the trunks, but I think it’s because the classic red trunks look is something that Snyder didn’t do, so it’s become the primary target of their disdain.
@@prodigioussaps NPCs be like, THIS IS NOT DARK AND GRITTY ENOUGH! BRIGHT COLORS?! OPTIMISM?! TRUNKS?! NO! THIS IS NOT WHAT HE DID! ALL HAIL ZACH!
I love the traditional Superman suit but it shouldn't be a deal breaker, especially the "S" Remember how strange the Kryptonian scenes seemed in the 1978 movie, at first? I hated the ice world effects, at first, now, I expect them. What would bother me is if the script is a mess and the actors fail at their parts... but I don't think that is going to happen. I HOPE it isn't going to happen.
@@lumerarkenstone The audience went nuts when he put in the mask. I got so tired of all the black leather. It was like a breath of fresh air when I saw the bright yellow vests in X-Men First Class. I remember Olivia Munn fought to have a comics accurate costume in Age of Apocalypse. Turned out to be the only thing anyone remembers.
After seeing Corenswet's acting charisma on screen I have no doubt they will pull this off.
Agreed. Rachel Brosnahan as Lois was a masterstroke casting decision as well.
You realize that these were the same types of people who wanted to boycott Michael Keaton as Batman, who now regard as the best ever. Just keep yer trap shut til the movie comes out.
The Snyder crew is a very small minority. MOS was NOT a big enough hit to justify a pure sequel and BVS was an abomination. Henry was a perfectly fine Superman. But this is NOT 1990 and they are replacing Chris Reeve here..
Think people are so attached to the actors that they don't think about what could be.
We've seen how Snyder cultists have treated Tyler Hoechlin and Brandon Routh's return in Crisis On Infinite Earths, it's like anybody who might be cast as Superman is somehow automatically insulting Henry Cavill. The image of Cavill's Superman has warped these people's minds and their perception of reality.
It's very possible that David Corenswet might surpass Henry Cavill like Tyler Hoechlin had, of course Snyder cultists can't move past the fact that Cavill is no longer Superman that they can't comprehend it.
If the new film fails it won't be because they're aren't carrying on from a version that was incredibly divisive where Supes was a Dark Knight wannabe who can fly the entire time.
The most Superman we got in movies in the last decade was Captain America in the MCU.
Very true about Cap... Chris Evans absolutely nailed that role from the drop. I still love First Avenger and count it as one of my favorite MCU films. But all due props to director Joe Johnston (who also did the Rocketeer) and screenwriters Markus & McFeely, who went on to become the golden boys of the MCU.
@prodigioussaps DCU Superman suit has MCU Captain America vibes with the panelling.
The Rocketeer James Horner score sounds like if he did a Superman score.
@prodigioussaps DCU Superman suit has MCU Captain America vibes with the panelling.
The Rocketeer James Horner score sounds like if he did a Superman score.
A comment so nice it posted twice!
Yeah man I LOVED the Rocketeer. I need to rewatch that one.
I'm starting to believe that there's people sitting in call centers and their job is be trolls on social media.
You know, there are marketing firms that do this sort of thing... so, without sounding conspiratorial, you never know.
These guys are the minority to be honest, this film will not fail
Minority opinion, but I kind of preferred Cavill's performance as Superman in Joss' cut and the glimpse we saw of him in Black Adam versus how Snyder directed him. I really enjoy the Snyder Cut of Justice League, mind you, and it is one of my favorite DC film of all time and I think it is ZS's best DC film, but I enjoy a hopeful Superman and HC really wasn't allowed to play that type of character. We're told he would eventually get there, but everything in the nightmare future segments really say the opposite. Zach's stuff was like 75% baked and needed probably a producer or more input from Nolan on how to make his movies more viable for cinemas. I applaud that he had big vision and really thought it out and was going somewhere with the story, and built a universe, but it never came across (outside his 4 hour JL cut) as fully finished as a packaged deal you could deliver to audiences (I once showed BVS to a classroom of college students when I taught overseas for a movienight, they couldn't really understand why Batman was fighting Superman and didn't get the movie and preferred Begins and Reeve's Superman over it).
Agreed - I always liked Cavill and it’s a shame he never got a chance to shine, IMO. I’m kind of glad the Black Adam sequel didn’t happen, but it would have been really cool to have Cavill in at least one more Superman film, playing the character the way he was clearly looking forward to, “joyful”. Who knows, maybe someday we’ll get an ‘Elseworlds’ Superman where he can do that. But seems unlikely at this point.
Thanks for your comments! Cheers 👊
@@prodigioussaps Yes, this is what I meant, the "joyful" representation of the character, akin to how Reeves. Not the cheesy one lines or bad cgi, but the charisma that HC brought to those scenes and the more hopeful scores with hints of the Williams theme. Even if you give BVS back those 30 minutes of missing Clark Kent scenes, the film as a whole has many flaws as a movie. It boggles my mind how hard ZS fans can't see these movie flaws and instead view it as an excellent film. MoS further showed ZS never really understood the character, but clearly prefers the Injustice version. ZS fans will cite Cavill as being their favorite actor to play Superman and MoS as being their favorite Sup film. They've fallen for ZS's versions of the characters, but they're not per say the one's from the comics. Then double standard arises when DC fans express that they dislike ZS's take because it deviates from the comics, for it shows they don't want a "Superman" movie, they just want a ZS Cavill movie, or nothing else.
@@Joshuadmathews Justice League '17 was terrible but Henry Cavill getting the rare opportunity to actually act like Superman was by far the best part of it. He has absolutely everything and deserved a non-Snyder Man of Steel sequel.
Cavill never got to play THE Supernan; he looks better in the films you cite, because their creators had more belief in the creation.
I don't get how people can say it will fail when there's just not enough info out yet, even leaks have been very minimal.
Chris and Henry are my favorite Superman actors.
I enjoyed "Man of Steel".
As far as the trunks.
I believe I'm one the few people who understand the purpose of trunks.
I still don't like them but I will tolerate them.
That being said, I hate the zippers going up the back.
I wish they made super suits look more practical, like X-Men suits.
I'd rather the emblem was a flap that goes across the zipper in the front.
I don't even like the way zippers are on wetsuits.
My main anticipation about the suit is will they show how the cape stays connected.
Have you ever wondered how his cape stays in place?
I had to us a safety pin to hold my bath towel on, when I was a kid.
(LOL)
I think the movie is going to be great
1:00 I’m very much not in that camp.
If it is a success, more power to them.
I am not at all excited.
But I can also admit that not everything has to be for me. I don’t hope that they fail unless there’s something terribly problematic.
I’ll add this so people know that we aren’t all built the same:
I don’t like most of what I’ve seen of the Gunn-verse but I don’t hope it fails just because…I loved the best of the Snyderverse and wish it were still around.
I can understand resentment. I don’t get the active hate… 💩
I just got it.
They/we blame Gunn for a lot of what went wrong with the Snyderverse.
I’ll bet that’s it. They want the thing that killed their puppy to get killed, too.
I can understand that. I don’t feel the same but if that’s the motivation, I do get it.
Majority of Snyder fans are closed-minded and wants Gunn to fail
I doubt it’s an actual majority, but a very vocal minority. Certainly feels like a majority sometimes, I’ll give you that.
This movie is going to be dope af. I literally cant wait for this movie to come out. Trust in James Gunn❤
Yes, so thrilled. Cheers 👊
In my opinion just my take is that Superman needed a break. Gunn should've just made a Justice Society movie based in the 50s-60s. Then he couldve made the Authority more based off in the late 90s and early 00s. Showing us that shift in superheroes from colorful Wonderful Beings like the Justice Society to AntiHeroes like the Authority. And thats where Superman would come as this glimmer of hope and wonder for the world. Where we would see Supes vs The Authority. Batman would come after as a more Established vigilante who has been kicking it since the late in Gotham. Just my take tho
Man, I would’ve been down for all that in a heartbeat. Especially the old school JS. I’m sure plenty of that sort of thing is coming, though. I’m optimistic.
@@prodigioussaps Do you think that James can present us something out his comfort zone(Suicide Squad and Guardians) with a character of Superman Calibre?
Honest answer is I don’t know! A lot of what I’ve seen makes me hopeful. I know he can tell a good story and he’s good at making fantastical things seem plausible. But ultimately it will remain an unknown until the movie comes out.
@@prodigioussaps true that we well see for now I'm skeptical of this Single Celled Organism Gunn
Oh come now, he’s got at least three cells.
When I heard Gunn has this - I was pretty excited. I enjoyed SR. I enjoyed MOS, I enjoyed the JL stuff - none of them are perfect. But they all have good moments. I just want an enjoyable Superman film that evokes the way I felt about STM back in 78. I don't need a revolutionary take on it - I just want a good Superman film with loads of action and a bit of comedy. That's all !
I'm not crazy for batboy.. Disappointed no jla 2.. But how many times can superman returns..
First, I love listening to you guys because you have the foresight and intelligence when you break down movies and fan reaction, you guys are pretty much spot on! With that said I want post my opinion on your opinion. Yes, you are right that many look at new content based on original concepts and see negative results without watching the movie/television show. I can be a person in that camp because over the years of being a fan of Superman, I come to know some good Supermen (George Reeves, Christopher Reeve, Henry Cavill) and some not so great (everyone else, OPINION). Fans are frustrated with how Superman has been treated as far as story is concerned and we haven't really gotten a solid story. The recent Superman and Lois was a good rendition of Superman, but I think we want to see more Kryptonian and less human in Superman. Yeah, his ability to live as human as Clark Kent is interesting but marred down in soap operas. When the cape comes out, then we perk up. Smallville was different because we see Clark Kent before becoming Superman and he even rejects the idea of becoming a hero. Interesting but we are treated to hours of filler time, which is where the soap opera comes in. But to get back to the point, Superman needs to be treated as something serious but adventurous. WB has yet to figure that out because we are treated to a live action cartoon. Again fans are frustrated that whenever WB does Superman or any other character, it bombs (for any number of reasons) so who saves the day, BATMAN! Always Batman (Mark Hamill Joker cue)!!! And then the fans see Batman and all is well for few years. Since DC preceded Marvel, why can't they be the pioneers of successful animated/live action medium? DC animated shows and movies are top notch!!! Marvel animated, not so much but I know there are people will respectfully disagree and I would agree some of Marvel animated is good (original SpiderMan and SpiderMan and his Amazing Friends and The Incredible Hulk circa 60s thru 80s). But Marvel television shows and movies have met with such success, they have become the juggernaut of film as DC is still trying to figure our what works. They find a formula but then do something so stupid that they end up blaming everyone else for its failure. Ironically, WB acts like the Saturday morning villains we grew up watching on those old cartoons! And finally, toxic fans. There will always be a toxic fan somewhere in this world because someone hates something that someone worked hard on creating. Where it becomes a problem is that the Internet has become the medium of choice for toxic fans to pollute fan clubs and general enjoyment of an event. Mike Tyson has said, "Social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it." Myself as a writer and graphic artist has bumped into toxic people when I post my work. It is a form of vocal jealously that we are experiencing 100-fold because people can hide behind their keyboard. Think about a public event where everyone is enjoying a show or sport but there is one person that has to ruin it for everyone! And the sad thing is that we focus on the negative and forget the positive (or in some cases the respectful critique of a show or event). Anyways, I apologize for the long post but this is something that I speak my mind on hoping to influence others to find a way to deal with toxic fans....maybe we should not call them fans, just toxic and we need a safe way to dispose of it. Thanks again for the video, I will try to keep my next post under a couple dozen words or less (BUT DON'T HOLD ME TO IT!!!LOL).
Totally agree! I think you're spot on about the jealousy factor, most people don't even realize what's motivating them to lash out like that. There also seems to be a distortion in a lot of people's minds about opinions vs. fact... especially with the people predicting this movie's failure based on their opinion of the suit or whatever.
Also agree about SUPERMAN & LOIS... great version of Superman, but yeah, jeez, the unending soap opera drama was exhausting for me. There wasn't enough levity, IMO.
Always enjoy reading your comments Tyrone, don't hold back 👊
Yeh, me too. I have hope for this Gunn movie, but skepticism, also. I really want it to work out. I'd love a new version of the great modern myth of the man from Krypton. I have skepticism about Hollywood generally in the 2020s. There is no reason to hate the Snyderverse but there are reasons to dislike it- I felt it was far too violent and it made Superman a dark and dangerous brooding force, it harped on the xenophobia and demigod angles too much, and had an insufferable Batman and Lex Luthor. Lois found out about Superman's secret Identity before the story really began. Part of the fun of the Story is watching it dawning on Lois is that Superman, her main romantic crush, is actually that unimpressive Clark Kent from a rural area of Kansas. It's a major beat in the story. (Batman, if he really existed, should sue Synder for libel!) I hated the Snyder Lex Luthor... a pimply spoiled, troubled brat of a man? seriously? the greatest criminal mind of his generation and he's insane because he was abused by his dad? Lex is supposed to be intimidating and impressive, a business man and Villain. Some of the animation does the Character better than the Snyder live action movie, did. I like Cavill, really do but something is off about his version of Superman. I like him as an actor. He did his best with script he was handed. I'll always believe that Christopher Reeve and Dean Cain did the best that can be done with the Alien Kryptonian.
Without great villains and friends, the Superman saga falls apart. What I believe is each generation is going to have is it's own version of Superman, different things are going to be emphasized and some will appeal solely to that generation, some to the general population, some won't.. In short, it's a generational thing.
Beautifully put, Kathleen, as always! Totally agree about the Lois/Clark dynamic. And don't get me started about Snyder's Jimmy Olsen. Ooof.
@@prodigioussaps Thanks. I'm definitely blushing! Jimmy was in the movie? He obviously made no impression on me, of any kind. I felt one of saddest parts of the movie is how little we got to see Clark Kent being Clark Kent. Without the newsroom, and Superman's best friends, the story is only half told. I know, they told a protracted story about how he wandered about in early adulthood.. but that isn't Clark Kent, the reporter, who lives a very human life. The best part of the Superman story is how a super-powered alien, from a distant advanced, lost civilization, enjoys being a human being.
Because (*in my Batfleck Voice*) IT WILL!!!
Ohh here you guys are. I was wondering when you’d show up.
😂😂😂😂😂you guys are jokes😂😂😂
Having seen the trailer, I'm looking forward to the new Superman film. It's a shame it's not Cavill- I think he was a good choice for Superman, but got stuck with lousy scripts and plots, and it feels like he got shafted (and then again on The Witcher).
Another thing about the Gunn movie that looks good- COLOUR! Gunn actually allows colour in his films. Snyder blue filters everything into this dull, dark, incredibly grey world that bears no resemblance to the real world, let alone a comic book world. Remember that scene in Man of Steel where Clark flies above the clouds into full sunlight and it still looks grey and overcast? Ridiculous.
I have two concerns about the upcoming film. The first is Corenswet- he's an unknown factor to me. It remains to be seen whether he can carry the film. The other is the number of other superheroes we see just in the trailer. Do we really need Guy Gardner, Mr Terrific, Metamorpho AND Hawkgirl in the film too?
Still looking forward to it though!
I don't know that "Superman" will fail, I'm just not a fan of James Gunn and the fleeting looks we've seen of the movie so far. "Guardians Of The Galaxy" was fun but i can't get over him turning the Nova Corps into a space police department full of sad sacks. Vol. 2 was just a mess, plain and simple. And pound for pound, I'll take "Suicide Squad" over "THE Suicide Squad" any day of the week. SS was by-the-numbers, but solidly so. I'd love for them to #ReleaseTheAyersCut, because it was probably a more intense and better movie. TSS was a looser and messier thing. You introduce characters just to immediately kill them off? And it was both bloody and profane to exactly no point. I love a good bloody and profane movie ( Hands for "Robocop?" ✋), but none of it advanced the plot or the characters.
As far as our first looks at "Superman," I'm not a fan of the "Kingdom Come" shield, and the suit just looks comical overall, like they brought in the costume designers who did that abortive Justice League TV show pilot a couple decades ago. Why bring in SO many other heroes to tell a SUPERMAN story? Or bring in Lex-freakin'-Luthor AGAIN. Learn from both the Nolan and Webb Batman movies and PICK A DIFFERENT VILLAIN from Supes' rogues' gallery. Can you say BRAINIAC?! I'm not saying that NOTHING good will come of this ("Man Of Steel" is MUCH better than I was lead to believe), but it's hard to see it just now.
A few doubters may have vitriol, and we notice that first; I am not interested in their 'take,' but I don't want to engage in the 'come-back' put-downs their worst may adore (fan culture can be better than that); at our best, we should enjoy the new wave I see coming (even FF's retro-futurism may tie in), one that also has authentic visions with the Swamp Thing/Sgt. Rock/ other projects. There is no shortage of talent eager to enter the fray.
Aaron Fisher's YT channel comes to mind. Every video is Gunn's Superman will fail. Its a bit ridiculous
Yeah I think I may have stumbled across his videos a couple of times.
The film will fail because - no Henry Cavill.
Okay. So is every Superman movie from here forward doomed to failure for all time unless it stars Cavill? Why can't it be someone new?
@@prodigioussaps -- Yes, every Superman movie from here forward is doomed to failure unless it stars Cavill. I think you've got it.
I am not hoping it fails, but this does not look like it will be a hit. The look of the characters, the feel of the promos, I just do not see a win for DC or the fans. Some people see The Batman as a win, yet Batman was unintelligent and had little training.
"The Batman" was a massive commercial success. Not sure what you're trying to say there.
@prodigioussaps was it though? For a Batman film, in a superhero positive time, with no real competition at the boxofice... inflation adjusted, not good for a Batman film.
Dude, come on. It made 772.3 million. They're making a sequel. The Penguin spin-off series is also a huge success. It was a success. This isn't really open to debate.
@@prodigioussapsYou ignored everything I said in relation to its flaws and the comparison of tickets sold... Also year 2 batman lost to the Riddler... Literally still the smartest detective in the world, and they made him rely on street cops to help solve riddles... Year 2 was more of a mess than year one. If you can't even admit the flaws of The Batman, how can we accept your judgement on any project?
@@prodigioussaps seriously though... screaming "what did you do?"... not year 2 Batman!
James Gunn is a good director and some of the stuff from the trailer looks promising. I am not so keen on the heavy leanings toward the "silver age" comics, a.k.a. the worst era in comic history. Like for instance the inclusion of Krypto the dog made me cringe. It just kinda feels like he's trying to turn DC into Marvel, which they are not. At least not for the last 35-40 years. Anyway I'm going to keep an open mind and hope for the best but my expectations are not that high currently. FYI, I am admittedly also not a huge fan of the circus strong man undies and I find the choice to make the suit baggy and loose fitting odd. Makes Sups look small and weak. More like a little kid in a Halloween costume than a legit superhero. Also, not a big fan of scruffy haired, emo Clark.
Maybe we'll stop being negative, when DC starts making non-stupid decisions. If they keep pumping out trash, the only way to change that is to give an overwhelming negative response to their crap ideas. Imagine what Sonic the Hedgehog would have been, if everyone sat on their hands about the brutal design, to not be negative. What would Alita Battle Angel look like, if not for the helpful negative response from the internet?
When something sucks so hard, like the new Superman look, and no one wants to be "negative', the filmmakers will just continue to think we are just marks that will buy any crap they put out.
Make your voices heard! All of James Gunn's ideas that he has announced are stupid. We don't need an origin story and goody-two-shoes Superman. We don't want stories from fringe DC characters. We don't want to be bombarded with TV series spinoffs, and which makes people just give up on trying to follow it all. Let him know!!
That was all very entertaining, but just wanted to jump in to say James Gunn’s Superman is not an origin story. Good luck 👍
Couldn't agree more!
@@prodigioussapsThat's what kinda does interest me about this DCU quilombo. That dynamic of an Established base of heroes.
Good poimt. I am disappointed Henry Caville didn't really get to make a great Superman Movie - I thought he performed well, but the scripts were q let down and would have been happy to see him carry on as Superman. But I also respect the fact that Henry now has baggage of a complex franchise that would have serious held back a reboot. I just want Superman to succeed (not any particular actor). More than anything I want young kids to go into a theater, see Superman, and go "Wow! that's what a hero should be!" If only I could be 7 years old again! ;-)
Henry was great! ESPECIALLY considering the circumstances. There were several moments in MoS where I was thinking... there he is! Particularly the interview scene with Lois with the two-way mirror. I was actually looking forward to his aborted comeback... I think it would have been class to give him one more picture, but I understand WB is trying to claw its way out of a hole now and likely doesn't have the budget for two big-screen Supermen.
I'm a fan of Snyder's movies. Man of Steel and Zack Snyder's Justice League are two of my favorite comic book movies of all time, with ZSJL even placing in my top 3 alongside The Dark Knight and Logan. BUT I do not understand the vehemence with which fans of Snyder's films will say that James Gunn's reboot is going to fail. Based on what? James Gunn has not made a single thing for the comic book genre (for Marvel or DC) that failed. All of the Guardians of the Galaxy movies did well at the box office, Peacemaker was a very popular show, and The Suicide Squad despite not doing great at the box office due to coming out in the aftermath of the pandemic did well enough to get WB to ask him to help lead the DC reboot. And sure, there's people that don't like some of those projects, everything has someone who doesn't like it. But the statistics indicate that the majority of people who watch Gunn's superhero stuff like it. Some people like myself even think his contributions to the genre are consistently great. The numbers simply do not support the idea that this movie is going to crash and burn. The entire basis for Snyder fans saying that this is going to fail is that Gunn's take isn't Snyder's take. That's it. You have nothing else to base that on. "But if Snyder was doing this, it'd make a billion dollars." Based on what? None of Snyder's DC movies cracked a billion. "Well, that's because none of those were his cut of the movie." Man of Steel was. That didn't crack a billion. And sure, this movie is probably not going to make a billion dollars. That's not the rubric for success. The rubric for success is the movie turning a profit. Lots of Marvel movies never came close to a billion and have been heralded as successes. This is a reboot. Of course it won't crack a billion on it's opening outing. The only way that'll happen is if it blows everyone away and turns out to literally be the best comic book movie of all time. Anyways, I digress. The point is, there is not a single reason at this point to believe this movie is going to fail. People are just upset that their favorite adaptation of DC isn't continuing.
Agreed. Cheers 👊
Thank you for that. There are level-headed fans out there.
I agree with every principle stated. I wish it applied to everyday life! I wish it applied to politics! Lol
There's obviously toxic Snyder fans, but there is also this toxic positivity surrounding Gunn's new Superman. You don't have to be a Snyder fan to call out the Slouchy, Biker Boys suit, Superman wears in this film, or even the Wes Andersen color grading. The tone of the teaser is not too dissimilar from Man of Steel, yet there's this unjustified "Hope" meme given in many reviews and comments of the teaser which just screams cult (Gunn-sanity?)
Why is "hope" unjustified? I don't get it.
Because it looks bad and Superman's outfit is awful.
Totally disagree
Toxic Positivity is just as corrosive.
Such as?
People weeping over a movie trailer.... any of the comments filled with emoji's. People trying to project success on this make as much sense as someone who says this will fail. They don't know and it holds back any real discussion of the film
@@Dnico78 So people shouldn't express their excitement or emotions at all? Where does one draw the line? Nobody knows if the film will succeed, but I do know that I'm fucking excited for it and obviously I'm not alone. People expressing emotions you don't share may be annoying to you, but it's not "toxic".
@@prodigioussaps I'm real happy for you. I've been a Superman fan my entire life. I've read, watched and listened to every iteration of the character I could find. Many of those versions excited and interested me, some did not. This doesn't. Many others have expressed frustration as well. Your positivity becomes toxic when you tell me there's something wrong with the way I, and others feel about this new version.
That's it. I don't care if you love it. Just don't crap on people who have concerns. I listened to people who love it, trying to understand why and yet I can't get the same treatment back.
Come on now. We’re not crapping on people who have concerns. Even we have concerns and we’ve made that plain in many of our videos right from the drop. This video is a response at people who are forecasting the film’s failure and even appear to WANT it to fail for whatever reason, which frankly I think is ridiculous.
Only thing i am worried about is that its too silly and goofy. James gunn always goes for goofy.
I think that's a valid concern, and one we've expressed in earlier videos, particularly the first few episodes we did after the Gunn/Safran hire announcement. I think we can rest assured there WILL be Gunn-style humor in this movie, because it's in all his movies. There will be whimsical moments, no question. We've already seen some of them in the Cleveland shoot.
But really I don't know what to expect, because Gunn has never taken on a project like this before. But one reason I think his Superman might not be as high on the Gunn-goofy scale as Guardians and Suicide Squad is that Gunn speaks of Superman with a reverence I haven't heard him use with any other character. Unlike the Guardians, whom he really knew nothing about before Feige suggested he take on that project, Gunn has LOVED Superman deeply since he was a kid and has stated that Donner's Superman changed his life. But that's it, beyond that we're just going to have to wait and see.
This film has a flying dog. Of course, it will fail.
That’s your only reason?
I just don’t think this new film is aimed at adults. Elements like a flying dog and characters such as Mister Terrific might work in a children’s comic, but they feel out of place in a live-action movie. Superman: The Movie (STM) understood the importance of verisimilitude-taking the subject matter seriously and making audiences believe in its world. That’s why it still stands unmatched. No Superman film since 1978 has captured that same magic, and I don’t expect this upcoming movie to break the trend.
Sure, the film will have an audience-primarily a teenage one. But imagine a scene where a flying dog rescues Lois, catches a falling helicopter, drops her safely on a rooftop, barks, and then flies off. It’s absurd and would completely undermine the tone of a serious Superman story. If you’re okay with Superman walking his dog on a lead, both of them wearing capes, then that’s the kind of world you’re embracing.
The bottom line is this: no one has been able to make a Superman movie like Richard Donner did. No one has come close to injecting the same heart into the story. That’s why Superman Returns fell flat. That is why Henry Cavill only had one solo movie. And it’s why this new film seems to rely on an ensemble of superheroes with ridiculous names.
The harsh reality is that there hasn’t been a worthwhile Superman movie in nearly 50 years. Donner understood the character, the tone, and how to make the audience believe. Sadly, that understanding seems to have been lost.
@Chris-B. Well yes. Hell yes I am okay with a world where Krypto exists. Consider this... verisimilitude does not mean no flying dogs. You need to expand your idea of what verisimilitude can do. Verisimilitude does not mean stick to what you consider to be plausible. It means portraying the implausible as if it were real. A flying man is just as ridiculous as a flying dog. But on film, if done right, anything can work.
James Gunn has already accomplished this... he made Starro the Conqueror a horrifically convincing (and even somehow sympathetic) villain in a live-action superhero movie. Because he showed us what it might be like if Starro were real, and treated the source material with respect. Don't try to imagine how silly it would be if Krypto existed. Just accept the fact that he does. Gunn knows how to pull off crazy shit like this... although I'm not sure why you lumped Mister Terrific into that same category.
Do I know his SUPERMAN will succeed? No, but I am optimistic and increasingly more and more so the more I learn about this movie.
@@prodigioussaps Thanks for your well thought out reply, and I appreciate all the points you made. I know you suggested that Superman flying was as ridiculous as a dog. I agree, it isn't realistic, but STM was so grounded that Donner made you believe it was real. I can never believe a flying dog is real. In the balcony scene when Superman says to Lois, Peter Pan flew with children Lois in a fairytale. That was a genius line by Tom Mankiewicz to bring reality to the scene. It tells the audience that this is really happening.
The latest trailer introduces us to Superman in a baggy suit, lying injured, which was a huge mistake. It wasn't a heroic introduction to the character. He is then dragged off by a dog in a cape. Then the movie follows the same 'crash bang wallop' tropes we have been subjected to for the last 20 years. Explosions, lasers, buildings toppling, and huge monsters.
I have no doubt it will have a huge following, but a cartoony, over-the-top Superman film just isn't for me. I am not the core audience for this movie, and I accept that. To end on a positive, I wish this movie all the success in the world.
As a six-year-old, STM touched me in a way that no other superhero film has before. How it made me feel has resonated throughout my entire life. I have been involved in several STM projects. I have visited countless filming locations. I have not only climbed inside the original prop rocket ship (for a photo shoot) that landed in Smallville, but I have also lifted the original hatch and climbed down the very pit where Clark found the green crystal that changed his destiny. I have become very close to the movie that inspired direction in my life in a positive way.
Dude, the problem isn't the briefs, it's how baggy and plain his suit looks, he's supposed to be an alien and that suit makes him look like a budget cosplayer
Keep in mind you’re not seeing him as he looks in Gunn’s camera lens. You’re seeing him in leaked paparazzi shots from angles he’s not being filmed from. Take a step back, don’t be so quick to fling poo.
Also... how does being an alien translate to tight clothing, anyway? I mean I get the classic esthetic of having a form-fitting spandexy superhero outfit, but what does that have to do with being an alien?
@@prodigioussaps for Christopher Reeves it was ok to wear the simple spandex because that movie was made in the 70's, we're well beyond that and fabrics have improved
@@greenrobot5 Just curious, which more recent version of the suit do you think was best? Cavill? Hoechlin?
@@prodigioussaps Cavill, but not 100%, it needed the briefs and the blue was too dark
James Gunn is a good writer director so I’m hoping 👍
There is a hate-o-sphere out there that will automatically condemn any movie before they have even seen a trailer. This, because the images they have seen are not what THEY would have done. That, and trolls/bots that just want to try to make a project fail.
The problem is folks who didn't like Snyder vision made it theremission to slam folks who did. So what I'm seeing now the folks that were bullied (Snyder bros) are now doing the bullying to Gunn fans.
I don't think that's accurate. In my experience here, SnyderBros interpret any criticism of Snyder's movies as a personal attack, no matter how valid that criticism is. That doesn't equate to being bullied.
@@prodigioussaps In my experience I saw Snyder bros state what they liked from a scene then they get attacked for how stupid they are for liking the scene. For example, a Snyder Bro will say, "hey O like the Pa Kent death scene" and you would reply with..............? From what I seen the reply is "oh that scene is stupid how can you like that" which some would take as a personal attack. I'm just saying don't attack and you won't get attack. This is coming from a guy who thinks Snyder and Gunn have no idea what they are doing when it comes to comic films. I give credit to everything that is MCU to Feige. The directors are just taking orders and following a blueprint which is why outside the MCU their films are duds.
We have never said anything like “how can you like that” or called anyone stupid for liking something, and I can’t speak for anyone who has. We state our own opinions, which granted are strongly stated opinions, but if people take it the wrong way I can’t do anything about it.
I'm all about criticism but DC fans are negative to a point where it's hard to be a fan.
There is plenty to dislike but honestly the more I see of Superman the more I have faith.
The DCEU failed so the idea that it was some perfect franchise is just false. Money talks and it failed
DC films excel when WB hires the right director (or team behind a project) passionate about the project and leave that director alone to do their stuff. The moment they interfere with that vision, tamper with the finished film in editing room and change their mind about everything, that's when their films suck. Donner's Superman, excellent film. Then they fire Donner, keep half of his film, then hire a different director who excels in making things more comical, write a new script, and then have that director film all the new scenes and Frankenstein Donner's shots into his shots... oh wait... what movie am I talking about again...
I like the trunks. I didn't like msn of steel BUT imo it seems Gunn is setting up this film to fail. The fiest photo of David in the suit was not what imo should've been the first photo we see. I feel he's lacking a strong voice to tell him the business side of film making which is, give the first photo of your comic book film protagonist a good photo of the lead actor in the suit to excite fans. Imo he's approaching this film as an auteur director and has no one to challenge him on the business end of things.
Like the suit. It has a lot i like but its ill fitting imo. In addition to him having no reshoots, it implies this film is neaely perfect in his eyes and so if its not well received when released he'll only have himself to blame. Pair all this with him and the cast not going to comic con. Yikes. I want a great superman film to enjoy and instead i feel im getting james gunn pet project with it being almost intentionally set up to fail as a block buster film. And supermen legacy and dc films cant afford to be treated like some small indie drama. It needs some business minded co-captain to guide the ship through rough waters
I’m sorry, but why are we still bitching about the first reveal photo?
@@prodigioussaps it's part of a larger discussion around Gunn not having a business minded voice to help him make this film a financial success. It's a piece of a larger pie that worries some superman and DC fans like myself. If you want to ignore the first reveal fine we can. It still won't change the idea that Gunn is not doing what he can or should to make sure this film financially does well like set leaks of I'll fitting costumes, not attending with the cast comic con the year before his film comes out, saying he doesn't need any reshoots aka meaning the footage he has is exactly what he wants so if it ends up divisive with fans he has his own self to blame by not scheduling reshoots in case he needed them, etc. If this film does well Gunn gets all the praise. If it doesn't do well the buck stops with him and no one else to blame
Sheesh, I'm sorry but this reads like a conspiracy theory, like the missing chapter of Loose Change. Let's not forget Gunn wrote and directed three of the MCU's most successful films. I'm pretty sure the man knows what he's doing. Looking at all these things you mention and saying it spells the pattern of doom is crazy to me. But hey if that's your jam, good for you.
@@prodigioussaps I'm not saying it's a pattern of doom, it's a pattern of CONCERN. I want a financially successful DC instead the chaos we've gotten for years from executive mismanagement.
I like the guardian films but no they aren't the most successful MCU films. Not a single guardians film made a billion $. Avengers films, Iron man 3, Captain America civil war, black panther, Captain marvel, spiderman far from home and no way home, multiverse of madness, wakanda Forever all made more $ than every guardians film. The Suicide Squad flopped. Hopefully superman legacy does well.
It's not a conspiracy I've just listed actions of James Gunn is all and why they concern or make some fans nervous. If it doesn't raise concerns for you that's good. I'm happy for you.
You're killing me, Smalls. The GoTG films rank higher than practically half the MCU catalog and were all among the highest grossing films of each year they came out. No, they weren't billion-dollar tent pole films but they were all hugely successful. And the Suicide Squad came out when the DCEU was already in decline, which is a damn shame. Everything from Birds of Prey onward flopped.
Gunn has Peter Safran there to handle the business end. We need Gunn doing what he does best, which is write and direct. I don't want him at SDCC, I want him working. I don't want him doing reshoots if he doesn't freaking need to do reshoots. I don't ignore the first suit reveal, I think it was great and created intrigue and got people talking, which is what you want. Look at us, here we are right now still talking about it. The Cleveland shoot, too, got him loads of free publicity. Yeah people criticize suits, so what. Wait for the trailers and then see what you think. All this hand-wringing, negative nancy talk is silly. Could it fail? Sure, but no, I don't see what you're seeing. I think you're making mountains out of imaginary molehills.
Succeed or fail, I'm not interested it. I won't be seeing at the cinema. I really like Cavill as an actor and recasting him after we were promised more leaves such a bad taste, I'm not watching. That doesn't mean I liked all of the Superman movies he was in or the creative choices, only that I want him in the role for a true Superman movie. I have the Christopher Reeve movies, I don't need more.
Then why comment?
@@prodigioussaps because I've watched a few videos in the past and agreed with you on the classic costume elements and am interested in being up to date. Why shouldn't I comment? I had something to say and it was related to the subject. You seemed to just want to paint all of those who don't like the new movie purely as Snyder fans, yet I don't like any of the Snyder movies. I just like and want Cavill in the role. That's what I wanted to say. Why do you have the comments open in the first place 👀🤷♂️
Okay, that’s fine, but when you say you have zero interest in the video topic, what else am I going to ask you?
@@prodigioussaps it's just interesting to see differing opinions; to see how the wind is blowing on public perception of the upcoming movie. It's not a pure indicator of the chances of success for the movie, but it could give an idea. I hope people like it, I just have too bad of a taste with how poorly Cavill has been handled. If Cavill ends up playing Wolverine, maybe I'll mellow and watch this Superman later on and enjoy it 🤷♂️👍
I agree he was treated badly, but I hate the idea of a true Superman fan missing out on potentially the greatest thing since Superman II. You’ve got nearly a whole year to find peace on this issue… what would Superman do? 👊
Sorry I got snippy, after dealing with so many combative commenters I get a little knee-jerky sometimes. Working on it.
this pajama party will fall
Pajama parties never fail. 🫡
Films not out yet 😂😂😂