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Laura Kuenssberg: State of Chaos | Episode 1 | May/Johnson
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- Опубликовано: 24 сен 2023
- Summer 2016, and the Brexit referendum result cuts Britain down the middle - stunning Westminster and the world. It is the starting point of a series that will explore the consequences and reasons behind some of the most dramatic and chaotic political events seen in a generation. It will examine how close our political system came to breaking and if it will ever be normal again.
Spanning the premiership of three prime ministers, episode one begins with Theresa May assuming office and holding the responsibility for delivering on the referendum result. We hear from senior civil servants who have never spoken before about the absence of a plan for achieving Brexit, which kick-starts months of anguished rows within the Conservative Party over what a deal with the EU should look like.
For seven years, Laura was the BBC’s political editor and so held a ringside seat at these events. Talking now to ministers, advisers and officials who were in the room, we hear what was driving the divisions and why this period became so toxic and disordered in public and behind the scenes, with Laura adding her own considered reflections on the period.
Ministers from around Theresa May's cabinet table describe the lengthy debates that never reached any conclusion. Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill talk exclusively about their role as her secretive and powerful political advisors - sent to turbocharge Westminster on behalf of their political master. May's confidants were sent to conquer not cajole, but both stand accused by civil servants of 'terrorising' the system of government to get things done.
Unable to find a way through on Brexit, Theresa May took the gamble of her life. She called an election to strengthen her position but failed and lost her majority. Parliament refused to back any plan for Brexit, and British political life descended into chaos. The strength of feeling on both sides of the divide hardened, and Westminster began to feel like a war zone.
Theresa May was ultimately toppled, having failed to find the backing for her Brexit deal in parliament. It marks the perhaps inevitable arrival of Boris Johnson into Number 10 with his Vote Leave sidekick Dominic Cummings in tow. This chapter of politics ushers in a new, brutal approach towards conventions and rules. Parliament is brought to an early shutdown - prorogued - as senior civil servants wonder if the glue that holds our constitution together is tough enough for the plan Boris Johnson is pursuing. Even the Supreme Court’s ruling to suspend prorogation - as the prime minister’s advice to the Queen was unlawful - did not stop Johnson. We hear exclusively from the ministers, legal advisors and mandarins inside the room - looking on in astonishment.
Broadcast: Monday 11th September 2023 | BBC Two | 9PM BST
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Too many people plotting the success of their own ambitions ahead of their country.
She was a better Prime Minister than anyone who came after her. Boris Johnson, who campaigned to get her out, eventually signed the deal she made with the EU.
Boris won a mandate from the people, May lost seats and had a minority govt relying on supply and confidence from the DUP.
Boris is a lazy loser, though. Of course he would take credit for a woman’s work.
It is scary that Teresa May was the best prime minister of the lot. Watching Reese Mogg and Nadine is just infuriating, still so full of themselves and thinking they did the right thing all along when they plummeted the country into poverty and chaos.
As a person who supported leave, JRM is a politician I support for being clear where he stands.
So was Hitler @@briangasser973
😂😂😂failed in every ministerial role ...how was she good .ol
@@pauljones1376 no one said she was good, only that she was the best of them...
die interviewes sind schon 4 Jahre alt.
May was a much better prime minister than Boris Johnson , Liz Truss or Rishi Sunak. Also Boris didn’t give a shit about anything as long as he got his own way
A lot of people criticizing those in power, politicians and civil servants because there wasn’t a plan. Well, what is apparent, is that the Brexiteers didn’t have a plan. All those questions in the run up to the Brexit vote like what about Northern Ireland, and who will we be trading with and what will we buy and sell, all brushed aside by the Brexiteers as stupid quibbles. But that was the very heart of the matter. They argued for Brexit without having the slightest plan about how it might be done, that was the real crime!!
Camerons' Govt at the time did have a plan ... they put a referendum to the people with two choices on the ballot, knowing full well there are nationalists and Eurosceptics out there. It is true that Cameron had no plan if we voted to stay in, nor any plan if the vote went leave. ... there's your criminal... is the Tower of London still open for business?
The real crime was committed by the voters who supported those total idiots.
A small majority voted to leave the EU. It was a majority vote - you lot did it to yourselves. It might have worked had there been a plan - the Brits having a plan? what a laugh.
@@clarissagafoor5222 It was a fair referendum.. The majority from that voted to leave that's how democracy works.
@@keddwnope, that's how democracy doesn't work, selling undeliverable things based on lies.
Ignoring the obvious problems.
What became obvious is how ignorant and clueless the people who made a career out of Euro-scepticism were about even the basics.
As an outsider, but former UK resident, I never understood why anybody was surprised that MPs, much less people, could not agree on a deal. It´s like asking a group of children do you want ice cream? They say yes but you didn´t tell them in advance that they would all have to agree on the same flavor!
Laura: "Was Theresa May a good Prime Minister?"
Nadine: "No"
I don't think Terry will be losing sleep over that dumbass thinking she was crap when Nadine publicly bums Boris at every opportunity even now
Gotta love a political documentary with heavy strings in the background. The only thing missing is Peter Hennessy (that'll date me) saying: "Meanwhile, back in Whitehall..."
I hate stupid Hague
How dare Farridge criticise others for the mess that he brought about. Wish he'd just go away.
You can't even spell his name mate
@@DeeClarke-lg1hp meh. its french. you can spell it however you want.
Teresa May was not a great prime minister, but was the best of those five. One wonders what would have happened if she had opted to seek a second referendum to confirm leaving the EU or to change course and remain in instead of going for a general election. Had she put her plan before the people in a referendum and the people opted to change their mind, then she would have stayed in and managed to stay in power.
The principle of Brexit was on the ballot in 2016, but not the exact form it would take. Different Brexiteers disagreed on whether to stay in the Single Market or not, whether to continue freedom of movement or not. Its not surpriising that when it became time to legislate on this and negotiate a Brexit deal, that these divisions - which were not only along Leave-Remain lines but also within the Leave side, would become more important.
As my dear mother would say, “A shower of bastards.”
I think they prefer to be called Conservatives.
The issue of Brexit was not necessarily about the result - it was the about way the referendum was conducted. A simple binary question on should we stay or should we go was totally inappropriate for such a major issue. This was effectively a major change to the UK Constitution, even it was not acknowledged as such. If you look at nations such as the US, such a change would require agreement across multiple houses and by substantial margins in both Senate and State legislatures. No change of this magnitude should happen on such a tiny percentile as Brexit. This has not only destroyed the UK economy and prospects, it has also set the bar for future referenda - Scotland would insist, I am sure, on a simple majority for independence now given the Brexit result. So would a vote for Irish Union. No country on earth should ever go down simplistic route to massive economic, constitutional and political change.
Tosh.
You hate democracy I see.
The UK joined the EEC without a referendum. The 1970s referendum was held after the UK joined. You would have to apply the same process to joining also.
@@Henry-vu5sg Blödsinn
At the end of the day, an extremely complex issue such as Britain’s leaving the EU, should NEVER have been left up to the public to vote on. The public voted for their government to represent them and to deal with complex issues not hand it back to the public and allow misrepresentation to determine the outcome. In the age of social media where everyone can lie and manipulate, there needs to be extra consideration given to major decisions voted by the public.
I still want to know what JRM actually did when he was minister for brexit opportunities. It appears he couldn't find any.
He found opportunities but just for himself 😂
Something about more powerful vacuum cleaners. That’s literally about it.
It is one amazing documentary.
Incredible journalism Laura 👏
Brexit was an IDEA, with no detail of destination. I sat with 3 British friends in Dublin, their jaws dropped, greatly stunned.
A decision to leave, fine , but the detail of what was being asked, unthought of ??
Thank you for your documentary 😘😎
It was detailed and the destination was to avoid the EU tax incentive that was going to be impossed on the British overseas tax havens. If we had actual independent reporting in the UK, you would have heard about it on the mainstream news. Trouble is they are in bed with the politicians and have as much to gain from Brexit.
brexit ended the scourge that plagues britain the tory party ,so happy days for us people
How much were you paid to say that? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@dogkicker100 Only somebody with a zero understanding of basic economics and geopolitics would come out with a statement like that! Here in Ireland, our initial reaction to the disaster that is Brexit was smugness. Now, its pity. And you'll never understand what you've done to your own country. That ability is the preserve of the.. .....what's the word I'm looking for?
@@dogkicker100 sehr interessant.
Hats off to Gavin Williamson for somehow being the most unpleasant person in this doc. Truly an achievement.
He did get the right name for spider it sounded like Corona virus!
The competition is tough.
Reese Mogg? I suppose Dorries escapes with rank stupidity over unpleasantness.
I can barely look at Amber Rudd without being put off my dinner.
She and May were the Home Office operators who victimised Windrush immigrants and demonised and persecuted immigrants in general.
Rudd's position as a minister eventually became untenable due to being a serial liar regarding her denial of various of her departmental decisions and misleading the House. May should always be remembered for the "Go Home Or Face Arrest," vans - which even Farage found distasteful - among her many other repugnant policies.
Essentially a shower of shits, regardless.
I'll see your Gavin Williamson and raise you..with Matt Hancock.
I think Jacob Rees Mogg takes that honour, in my eyes. Absolutely loathsome snake
@@someenglishguy he should be against ticket office closures and online shopping
Great documentary, really great work. I hope more of your work is in long docu-form. I really appreciate and enjoyed your work.
This person has just posted a BBC documentary on RUclips, that isn't work lol
It's literally stolen content.
Mate this is a BBC documentary, stolen content from the BBC
BBC documentary posted in You Tube is BBC Utubementary. Anyway it is exciting to watch
Laura is complicit in all this. Never asked any of them a difficult question. So, no praise for her.
Nadine Dorries is just something else - how did she get to be an MP?!
She got more votes than the other guy.
@@JupiterThunder They voted for the party, not for her!
This deserves more viewership
A really goid series describing the pricess so well.
I'm a Swede that have spent several of my working years in the UK. Now watching this fromthe side it feels so sad. The public was been tricked to take these important decisions strictly bases on emotions instead of basic economic facts. Then the Parliament never debates the agreement that even a school kid could see was so shallow.. Delusion on steroids disrespecting the population they represented... But I believe Britain will come out of it well if a mature, transparent and honest discussion will restore the political system abd trust...
As a foreigner A) it's none of your business; B) there has been no measurable negative effects compared to EU economies and C) we are masters of our own destiny. That doesn't mean our politicians haven't made some nonsensical decisions since we left, but at least we can sack them! Who are you to assert with no evidence that the electorate was tricked, unless you wish to limit the franchise solely to people who agree with you, because presumably you believe you are too clever to be tricked?
@@user-yu3uj7cc3u thanks for your reply.. I seems to have stepped on a sore toe. Of course it's your decision and destiny. I thought you saw me as honest telling you who I was. I have loads of friends in the UK and seen how difficult it is for young families. I have been helping several of them out in dire situations...or should I instead said "I shouldn't care". Can you please provide me with information about the plans and clear goals that the series so clear showed were lacking. You seem to have better insights . If I understand the reality correctly are 27 other independent suvereign states in EU part of Brexit as you didn't leave without an agreement. Maybe you feel that you are entitled to dictate everything by yourself and define the truth ... I'm looking forward to your insights.
I am Irish, have Australian citizenship and l have lived in New Zealand. I love politics. I think outsiders have a valuable insight to offer. I often wish there was more input/insight into Ireland from non Irish people. I think when you are raised in the culture of a country there are often blindspots that you don't realise you have. I think if you are are confident and interested in learning, you want to hear from others. Sometimes outsiders don't have the full picture so their ideas might not be fully formed but its healthy to be open to exchanging ideas. @@larstenfaelt1859
@@larstenfaelt1859that's the bot. Ignore it
2 months old account
It’s been a disaster just admit it.
Thank you :)
It's still shocking to see such a wonderful nation end up in such a mess.
Wow!! Cool. Thanks!!
For those politicians who campaigned for Brexit…realised the saying, ‘Be careful what you wish for, because that wish might come true’ and it did!
I was one of the 17.41 million people in the country who voted to leave and I don't think we've got our wish, we should've left the whole thing including the ECHR and ECJ and as we've stayed in those things we are still being controlled from Europe and were forced to put a trade barrier between Northern Ireland and mainland UK, effectively Northern Ireland were thrown under the Brexit bus.
@@BigBadJohn5358😂😂😂
Pls stop reading Daily Mail
Unless you were sarcastic then I can get behind on what you said
NICK AND FEE - WHY DO YOU THINK YOU WERE BADLY TREATED? YOUR FAULT !
good video presentation
Saw all three episodes on iPlayer. It was really well made. And crazy to relive the nightmare we found ourselves in and will continue to be in for a decade to come
Millions of us driven mad m8.
Watched them all also. Surprised how much I enjoyed them
Add an "s" on the end of "decade"
No mention of the referendum being non-binding, which was a major reason there was no plan.
“The government will implement what you decide” Everyone went into this thing knowing full well that it would be implemented. This is just a pathetic remoaner loophole they tried to wriggle out of because they lost. If you do not believe me, watch the entirety of the BBC’s referendum nights coverage.. it’s on here. All the politicians and political pundits all talking about its implementation. Not one of them makes reference to ‘advisory only’ or ‘non binding’ if it was non binding why did the ‘stronger in’ crowd go him crying like the bed wetters they are?
Checks and balances are absolutely important to a country whose politicians are rotten and with a government running round like a headless chicken.
I love the portraits of Sir Robert Walpole and Pitt the Elder seen as the doors are flung open
anyone watching this during the covid enquiry?
She (May) delayed Brexit and when Boris took over COVID came over!
THANKS SO MUCH MISS FOLASADE GIWA SAFIYAT GOOD BLESSiNG YOU TODARY AM ,?
39:27 _...Referenda tend to embolden and empower the extremes of debate..._
39:43 _...Referendums drive a very deep wedge into the political psyche..._
*"What on earth are these guys talking about?"* asks a Swiss voter, who participates in 4-5 elections every year on multitudes of referenda. In fact there have been over 700 decisions by referendum in the last 175 years *at federal level alone* - during which *every* decision of any import is/has been subject to public vote.
The effect of referendums are very different in the UK political system than in the Swiss (or even on other Euro countries such as Ireland). The former is traditionally first-past-the-post, winner takes all and the latter much more about finding consensus.
@@Conorguill The FPTP system in the UK is used in a limited aspect of democracy: namely *representation,* i.e., electing MPs to the House of Commons. At the national level there are as many *posts-to-get-past* as there are parliamentary constituencies-however the individual voter usually has one-shot in years to determine the unitary outcome in a single constituency, i.e., the MP for *one-and-only-one* of a total of 650.
Though it is true that the Swiss system of electing MPs every four years is proportional, a referendum is an expression of the *direct participatory* aspect of democracy, and not of the difference-posited by you-between FPTP and proportional systems of the electing representatives.
National referendums are extremely rare-usually occurring far less frequently than parliamentary elections do-except in the Swiss system where they take place 4-5 times every year, indeed 15-20 times more frequently than parliamentary elections do.
One thing that does not apply to referendum elections is the question of *FPTP or proportional,* your explanation does not hold for direct participatory democracy.
Oh please...Nigel Farage has never taken public transport anwhere in his life
He did the train to boarding school
Farage in the bus garage
If May had followed her beliefs instead of caving in to Truss and idiots .she may still be PM.(no guts)
Shame laura actually didn't hold them all to account when she was interviewing them and then parrot tory propaganda lines on twitter defending them
Yeah, the political control forcing the BBC to try to polish the turd was too evident.
Brexit ideas don't like scrutiny and Laura isn't exactly well equipped to scrutinise in depth.
Her biased towards the Conservatives was laughable really.
THANKS SO MUCH MISS FOLASADE GIWA SAFIYAT GOOD BLESSING YOU TODARY AM ,?
39:15 certainly mastered the blank empty expression here.
How self absorbed are these people? It is all about them.
Right! They should be ashamed of themselves. I am so disgusted.
Michael Gove was correct that Boris would not be a good Prime Minister
Makes you realise how rubbish the UK's political system is.
It is not. It is populated by light-weights that's all.
May was actually one of the good guys! Decent, hard working and honourable. But surrounded by a bunch of back stabbers 😢
No she wasn't..dreadful leader.
Talks like Rachel Reeves likes shoes like Rayner..May didn't sort out domestic taxation
I don’t think she was either good or bad. I think she was in over her head and just made too many mistakes.
@JohnHillRSNStudios and their next idea was Johnson then Truss... hilarious!! I have no idea on Sunak
@@JohnHillRSNStudios What... like all of them...floating around, waiting for a miracle, while also raiding the whole countries silver.
No mention of DUP deal?
No point ever dealing with DUP they don't know what's best for them or their part of Ireland. They also voted for Johnsons deal but are still campaigning against it while staying out of power. They are handing us a UI on a plate and the English are hoping they get it.
for all her faults. I have absolutely no doubt that Theresa May loves her country and wants the best for its people.
38:10 Absolutely guarantee that Farage was saying he's gotten death threats galore for years and that the BBC cut that part out.
He’s the biggest villain. He campaigned for Brexit then disappeared when the hard work came
@@jeromefitzroyFarage has always been a snaggle toothed gadfly - he’s a dishonest populist clown (aren’t they all???)
Actual elected officials get them all the time. Others have been murdered. Farages crocodile tears
Where is Victoria Derbyshire?
Just shows how bias the civil service is
To make an Omelette you have to Break Eggs, but the odds are that you will get Scrambled Establishment Eggs,
Theresa May was a non-Prime Minister. The country stood still the whole time. 😂😂
Great piece.
Nigel Farage should've been lead negotiator, he had a plan. He worked with the EU for over 20 years
😅 course he did
Ironic that Laura Kuenssberg's amongst others, unwillingness to do her job properly and interview Tory politicians robustly rather than let then talk shit and get away with it, helped to produce this state of chaos. A disgrace to her profession.
Laura revising her part again 😂 she seemed so chummy whenever she was with Boris and never adequately challenged him
Starts in 2016 after the BBC had collaborated in the calamity.
Welp, there's your problem right there. 59 minutes of politicians (so far) thinly disguised mirth or contempt for their fellow's plight or success in holding the best toy in the sandbox. While simultaneously failing to mention their constituents once.
When politicians become stars on the stage they are not politicians anymore.
Amen
"who's fault is this?" asks a woman whoes fault it was
What was Brexit is a question no one really answered
Every conservative MP's should have resigned there is no excuses for these people.
It ain't over yet.
It never been good but now there no vision.
if Britain was a normal country, civil servants voting to remain in the economic union you've been in for decades would be seen as a neutral thing to do. the fact that everyone is acting like its so shocking and political is why the Brits need to stay out of the EU? and: the way all remainers care about is how terrible Brexit has been for Britain. such a stupid selfish mindset, I think in their own selfish childish way Remainers are as Brexitty as Brexiters: all they care about is Britain's interests
I really don't understand why both sides in the UK keep thinking that the national interests of 27 countries was dependent on the composition of the UK Parliament.
TM should have embraced the WTO/no deal option. Dragging ERG in the mayhem that would have come off it. And , while the country would have ground to a halt, evoke emergency powers and have a second vote....
The prorogation was entirely legal. The SC judgment against it was unconstitutional. If it's the Queen's perogative, then it's the Queen's perogative.
Utter rot!! Remember when Brexit was about sovereignty of parliament?
You had a mendacious liar, attempting to destroy our representative democracy, going against the will of parliament.
Strong and stable government! Thank God we didn't vote for 'chaos with Ed Miliband'!
You must be a dunce.
Complete irony: her relentless spouting of the lies told by the irresponsible, helped lead to the chaos. No plan. No integrity.
Crazy since she’s always voted Tory, she’s only telling the people how vile and narcissistic the Tories are
I think the die was cast early on May’s term. She tried to be more leave than the leavers and ended the possibility of a consensus approach
Who in their right mind votes for Alchi Doris?!
Nadime saying may created choas is a joke
Teresa May got rid of 20000 police. Shame on the women.
You're not entirely right about that, it was Cameron who started cutting expenditure on the police, May just continued his work.
38:17 That lean forward and line was some machiavellian villain shit. Christ
56:33 "and even Churchill's grandson!"
So? It was Churchill's grandson, not Churchill.
Former Mid Sussex MP Sir Nicholas Soames.
@@veggie42 I know who he is. The question is: So? It was Churchill's grandson, not Churchill.
Who cares about someone just because he's Churchill's grandson? He's not a hero. He's not a national monument. He's just a descendant of a hero.
I doubt anyone gave a damn when his uncle, Churchill's *son* Randolph, was voted out of Parliament. Being a descendant of a great and important man doesn't make you a great or important man.
Canada's federal government had the same situation in 1995. When the Quebec sepratists nearly won the Quebec independence referendum, the Chretien administration from the first minister, elected government ministers to top federal government mandarins, provincial first ministers and thier bureacracies, they were clueless as to how they would facillitate Quebec leaving the federation. There was no plan. Luckily, the Quebec sepratists lost!
Britain's problem is the lack of set political terms. Politicians and journalists are constantly stoking the turmoil which is not possible in the US where you have two-, four- and six-year intervals between the elections for House members, the President and Senators respectively.
But both share the same problem of a political system severely handicapped by its first past the post voting system. Setting political terms is a step forward but hardly Britains biggest issue.
Journalists don't stoke political turmoil in the United States? You've never heard of Fox News, then.
You have constant election seasons, incumbency rarely gets overturned by the opposing party but more likely by a more extreme primary opponent and you're home to fox news. Sit down. The US is a political hellhole.
He's been on trains don't lie
@@kerngezond6953 Yes, both the US as UK have are flawed democracies with their election systems. A "popular vote" would immediately make different countries out of them.
May was a good PM and a very decent person. A milder version of Maggie Thatcher. I would remember her walking up to number 10 in a yellow and blue skirt which looked super elegant.
🤣
Laura left Corbyn the main opposition leader deliberately. The whole media is a waste of time and money.
I agree she has not been holding these tories to account
?
20:49 The're faces!! 😂
Ironic that most of those being interviewed were the more competent ones in the government
laura keunssberg is no andrew marr has to be said
Years too late Laura. The time to ask these questions was then not now. You believed the smoke and mirrors.
Brexit was and is idiotic, and our government was idiotic. The challenges from the press were non existant.
Years too late Laura.
Quite.
Are you guys crazy? It was and is an economic disaster
Civil servants in floods of tears at Brexit? It says a lot about the partiality, unprofessionalism, and feebleness of the current service.
I’m ashamed to say I fell for the Leave nonsense and voted out. Really not sure why, I wasn’t exactly young (mid 20’s) and really ought to have known better, I think it was because I watched Farage on Question Time when I was at university and thought he was a good orator.
I knew I and the rest of the country had made a huge howler literally the morning after when I saw the pound value plummet and Boris Johnson’s glum face on the TV.
Safe to say I won’t be making that mistake again and I’m far more cynical now, suspect we will quietly rejoin the single market again maybe in the Parliament after next, but I don’t think we’ll ever rejoin the political institutions for decades.
I think you might still be a bit mixed up. I'm European: why do you want to join the single market but not the "political institutions"? you don't want to sit at the tables , committees, councils and parliament where they make the decisions about the rules? the rules that you will have to keep? or do you think you can be part of the single market without keeping its rules and standards?
@@watermelon7998 I didn’t say I personally didn’t want to rejoin the political institutions - it’s just that the issue is still far too politically toxic for anyone to consider re-joining them for at least a decade.
I’m personally not fussed about being a rule taker inside the single market/customs union, most of the rules we were perfectly happy with for decades and were very profitable for us as a country.
@@MaximusOwen1 Oh OK, I understand. Would people be happy with the free movement of labour, you think?
So tories that campaigned for it dragged to country into it not fulling believing it for what?... political points?
Well look at the state of the UK. Is it not clear that the British people got it wrong.
That's what happens when you have democracy.
6:00 Helen also provided the karaoke machine for the lockdown parties
Oh . Come on . . Do not. . Say . ! Chaos . .WE on thé continent , WE do not have that feeling about YOU . ..
Laura has the political acumen of a sausage roll really guys!!
Philip Hammond drew the kegislation of the referendum why was it only two sides? remain? and not reform the eu relationship at all. Johnson had to finally deal with what he did. Johnson a J
corbyn
A very one-sided view of events.
All political parties are the same
Lets use people power and vote in an election. What a joke, only two parties who choose our MPS for us.
Whos only concern is how powerful they personally become. And how they can abuse there postion for present and future wealth.
WHO WAS BREXIT USED TO CREATE A FIGHT WITHIN BRITAIN???. HOW WAS BREXIT USED TO DEVIDE AND CONQUER???
Its impossible to be ready is a cop out answer. If Maggie Thatcher was the PM that would be an unacceptable answer.
Britain being broken.
And she has been such a fan of the tories
Superficial nonsense.
As ofton with documentaries that are granted all access.
That is why they are granted all access.
To produce meaningless fluff.