@@zweiwing4435 I’m probably going to get the AMD one. I find their drivers work better in Linux and also their support of open source means a better moral choice. But the new Intel one is interesting. But I’m moving soon and need to sort a new car etc. so large purchases are off the table for a while sadly
I'm 7 months in with my Fairphone 5, can confirm the sentiment "ruined all the other electronics for me" :D it really sets a new standard. Framework still doesn't ship to my country, last I checked FW team was asking feedback about keyboard layouts so I guess its close, so I'm pretty sure my next laptop will be a FW13.
Fairphone is next on my list. Tried one for couple days and loved it. It doesn’t ship to Sweden either 😏 but got one anyone from the UK. Worth the extra customs tax etc.
I've had the AMD framework 13 for a few months and it's been phenomenal. I use it with windows because I need adobe for design work, and gaming. It's not a gaming laptop but it can handle games quite well. You can't get 4k Ray Traced gaming performance but its solid as. For my use case I cannot think of a better laptop. I'm excited to keep using and upgrading this machine for years to come. If anyone stumbles across this video and is considering a framework I'd say do it.
I’d like to upgrade to AMD one also as it will have even better Linux performance. I’m thinking about external GPU also for gaming too to give it a try( but I have my beefy gaming desktop also)
One things comes to mind is whether the company will survive the next ten years. Founded in 2020, it still feels pretty new. If the company goes under, it's game over. It's hard choice for me. If you recalled, Google's Project Ara modular smartphone, Google cancelled the whole project. I thought that was the future. Let's see if Framework laptop will survive.
I think they will be ok. Google has a history of canning projects. I’d imagine they did that because as a percentage of the whole companies income it didn’t matter to them. Not compared to their other phone partners. Framework on the other hand are entirely focused on this product line. Given the consumer focus right now, I’d say they be ok.
They recently mentioned that May 2024 had the best financial numbers for them yet so it seems they're still on the up after 4,5 years. Companies usually don't see profits in the first 3-5 years so it's a good sign already.
My concern exactly, one could easily purchase a full coverage warranty plan and be future proofed. Not to mention, some of those upgrades later down the line are almost like buying a brand new laptop. Hmmm...
Thank you for the video, for the insights. I'm a late college student in 3rd world country, almost graduating, so the best bang-for-bucks I can get right now is mostly old secondhand, thirdhand Thinkpads. But I hope I can kickstart my job career well so I can buy a Framework laptop in five years and have it lasted up to 10 years and more!
Owner of the 1st generation 11th gen processor Framework Laptop here. Laptop still holding out strong after 24/7 usage. Upgraded Hinges and speakers later. Issues after a while is that the fingerprint reader is a tad worn and I have to use a pin half the time. Mouse pad clicker is worn and I find myself having to hit it hard or multiple times to get it to work again, if it fails completely I have to turn on the touch sensor click functionality again. Machine still works fine besides all that and whenever the motherboard decides to fry itself. I can upgrade to the latest processor motherboard without disposing the rest of the unit !
Thanks for comment. Will keep an eye on those parts. Easy to replace at least. Wonder how long they last. I think my next upgrade will be the amd motherboard. Unless they do a nice arm based one.
eh I bought a mouse pad but didn't include the clicker part it was only the touchpad sensor, and I cannot find the upper keyboard with fingerprint reader power button for sale on their site so at the moment I don't think it is fixable @@RobertMizen
I love the idea. I am not that guy who needs a new designer laptop every year. It just needs to be ergonomic, visually non intrusive, with a good display and keyboard...good for my work as a land surveyor and some occasional gaming. Looked at the FW16, but the prices are too steep. 2x the price of a comparable (performance) workstation/gaming laptop, and the prices of the upgrade GPU and CPU with motherboard is comparable to a whole laptop with the same specs. The FW13 has a much better price performance ratio. Hope the FW16 will be more competitive price performance wise in the future. At the present time it is only for a true enthusiast with cash to spend. If it will go down in price in a year or two, I will definitely get one of these.
The FW16 is a lot sure. I’m pretty sure though it would bring its weight back over time. Had my framework for a year and couldn’t be happier. The price to performance ratio isn’t the best. But given the time and what I get from it, it will earn it back. Even if you pay for cpu upgrade. You can use the older one for stuff. Which I most certainly will. Second hand market also will be good. Same with my Fairphone. There are better phones for price. But again, I try to support companies where I can. As long as the devices deliver what I need :)
@@RobertMizen I understand your logic. But right now it is just too expensive, and truth be told, it is like a first year run of a new model car. It has quirks until they iron out the manufacturing process. So no hurry to buy one. The demand is high, so the production is going to ramp up over time, which means lower cost of manufacturing. And I hope that AMD will help and support Framework, because AMD gaming laptops are scarce and laptops with RX graphics practically non existent. Which is a shame. The AMD mobile CPU´s are superior to Intel in every way. For what I´ve seen from the benchmarks, the RX 7700s is quite competitive. But can I buy a laptop with one? No. Intel ARC is the same. NVIDIA rules the laptop segment. And I love good competition. I am all in, on the environmental sustainability and friendliness. But you can´t change anything with a few expensive laptops. I think that the people at Framework know this as well. And their goal is also to bring the price down. You have to understand that people outside the US don´t have the money for expensive toys. The price of a Framework 16 with a GPU, are two net monthly average incomes here in Slovakia (EU). That is a lot of money if you run a business, have a family and a mortgage 😉 You have to think about what the average Joe and Marry can pay. Why do you think midrange laptops are selling like hot cakes? Price performance ratio. Even the FW13 has a somewhat acceptable, with one eye shut, PP ratio. The FW16 is...really bad right now. The price has to be competitive, to really change something. Peoples love for the environment ends at their wallets. Just look how much cheap clothes women buy. And we guys walk around in one jeans until the seams separate 😂 And that is why I would buy a FW16 and pay a reasonable amount extra like 15%. I don´t care if the case is scratched. I would use and upgrade it until it falls apart completely. And buy a new case and shove the internals from one case into another. Just not for this price. The FW is a genius idea non the less.
For now I am keeping my ageing ThinkPad e585 in use, as it still suffices. In a way it's neat how it's one of the first TPs with an AMD APU, but this also makes it quite slow, even running Linux (Garuda Linux, in case you're curious). I am preparing for making an upgrade soon, either to some other TP or a Framework 16. Next to being twice as expensive (but worthwhile in the long term), what makes me hesitant is that I don't think I would like the touchpad and keyboard. This as I am very accustomed to the ThinkPad style top buttons and heavier weighted keyboard keys, the Framework 13 of a friend I tried felt like a big downgrade. Which I can probably get past, but it still won't be as nice as another TP, like the one I helped my brother pick, which I am almost jealous of. But I'll have plenty of time to decide, as I've made the decision to start the next study year on my current laptop and to see how it holds up, now the programme will require heavier software.
I also understand. The keyboard and trackpad isn’t like MacBook quality. But I grown to love the keyboard. Trackpad not so much but I don’t often use it anyway. Always have a mouse with me.
I recently bought an AMD Framework 13 and it has everything I'd ever want from a Laptop: 3:2 Display, HDMI Port, USB-A Port, good keyboard, 7-8h battery life and decent performance. But I've noticed quite a lot of BSoD which were also experienced by way more customers. I will probably issue an RMA but still don't know what Laptop I should replace it with, especially considering the port selection on newer models. I hope this current issue is only bound to the drivers, both for the customers and Framework.
Wish I could offer some insight but I don’t have any windows machines (apart from a VM for configuring my HOTAS) in my home. Linux has been super stable for me. No BSOD etc. My mates work computer which isn’t a framework but runs windows has been very shaky lately. I would put some weight on buggy updates with windows too. Has been not great lately. But have you tried you a refresh or install?
@@RobertMizen I haven't tried a reinstall yet, but I expect it to be related to the iGPU. I neither have issues with my eGPU connected nor in the tty of my Linux dual boot. I have tried both Framework's and AMD's drivers. BSoD happen sometimes every 5 minutes, sometimes after 20 minutes, 2 hours or even a few days. I really don't want to let this machine go, but I wish I could know for sure if this is bound to the mainboard or the drivers. Framework definitely won't be able to replace every motherboard with this issue, as they did with the CMOS issue on the Intel boards. Currently, it's not reliable enough for me.
@@flyingwolf6 very strange and surprising issue! Hope you resolve it one way or another. And if it’s wider spread then hope framework are able to deal with it.
@@RobertMizen I believe I have found a workaround so I'll just document it here for people seeing my comment. Disabling hardware acceleration on all chromium-based applications including Discord and Spotify gets rid of this issue. There have been some report about similar behaviour on other AMD GPUs in the last few years. Personally, I have no problem with it staying disabled as Firefox doesn't seem to be affected.
@@flyingwolf6 interesting, I found out (about half a year ago) with my Ryzen 4800u laptop (Vega 8 iGPU) that the Steam .deb was crashing a lot when going through the menus etc. I disabled hardware acceleration in the Steam client and after that it never crashed again. So seems AMD GPUs definitely have issues with it
I *do* plan on buying the Framework laptop _but_ there's a very, very big catch for me: I switched to a Plank keyboard 5 years ago and I cannot ever accept typing again on the pitiful keyboards that most laptops have. I'm overjoyed by the mere fact that Framework finally caught up with us AMD users, and now, all I need is some way to have the laptop either have some sort of housing to plug my Plank keyboard in, or a way to completely cover the OG keyboard in order to just put my Plank down over it.
Never seen those before and looks interesting. I think that in time the sheer amount of community mods and developments will encompass a lot of different ideas. I reckon you could find something as a temporary solution until a hard keyboard comes. But now i am intrigued by the Plank style too.
I know what you mean. I never use the notebook's keyboard or monitor at home. I have a Dygma Defy split ergonomic keyboard. It has even more advantages than the Planck. P.s. The notebook should be placed on a stand or monitor arm to raise the monitor to eye level. It makes typing difficult. 😉
The planck is cool but be aware that it still has the wrist problem from normal keyboards. To fix it, the keys should be staggered inwards when going forward and outwards when going backwards. Another great (actually even better) solution is to have a split keyboard, but that couldn't work embedded into a laptop.
I wish it was more widely available, but I don't know if it ever will. I'm more hopeful for it to be a trendsetter (although we're seeing so many laptops with soldered RAM with the latest Intel Meteor Lake and most ARM PCs are released with it soldered too)
It will be. It may not be the “majority” but it will become mainstream. Certainly they will contribute to new standards and set trends but companies make lot of money reselling short life equipment. As long as people keep growing their awareness of that BS anti consumer practice then it will get better. But start with yourself, then your family and friends. Change begins at home :)
Lenovo ThinkPads are well-built and come with a 3-year on-site warranty from the supplier. Additionally, you can easily repair and upgrade them yourself.
They are legendary. But newer modes are not. And Lenovo don’t actually support self repairs. You can’t easily get hold of official spare parts. Second hand on eBay etc. Sure. But it’s not the same as a Framework.
@@RobertMizen In my country, they provide a reliable service. You are right about the newer models being less repairable than the older ones. I am still runnig a T14 Gen2 and it works great! Unfortunately, I don't have access to Framework laptops.
Great review! I sold my huawei matebook x pro recently and I've been thinking about buying a framework. Kinda fed up with windows btw and Endeavour os seems like a good linux distro, what do you think about gnome on laptop?
Thanks for the comment! I prefer KDE. Customize it but also GNOME works great on these. EndeavorOS for me is great. Stable and I do lot of different things. Gaming computer at home has it on too.
It is sad to see most tech channel in CES 2024 glorifying "new stuff" like ASUS Zenbook dual screen to the level saying that "all other laptops will be seen as boring". Indeed it is a sponsored by ASUS contents, so this is their living. However, one should be critical that making a laptop more and more similar to a phone is making them disposable. Memory is soldered, adding screen in both sides making them prone to breaking/cracking, the problem of replacing the battery when it finally dies, to the extend of what Apple does by soldering a disposable SSD. I think people need to slow down a bit and set aside consumerism, instead promote productivity. If it is productivity, then it is a reliable device that matters. For this, Framework gives a bit of light at the end of the tunnel, but it is still far fetched to truly ensure sustainable productivity. It is a startup nonetheless, hopefully a promising one.
Agree with you totally. There isn’t anything “new” and just because it’s new doesn’t mean it’s gona work. Those laptops gona be insane hard to repair. And after couple years Asus won’t be sending spare parts. If it isn’t easy to repair and service I’m not Interested. I don’t know how we go to electronics like laptops and phones having like 3 year life span. But framework etc are the way. That design is the way.
I just bought a 16 and will be returning it sadly. I really wanted to like it but the build quality isn't great (panels don't seem to fit well) and the OOBE of Linux is just never what is advertised (not much Framework themselves can do about that unfortunately). I'm thinking I'll wait a year and see where they're at.
Fair, i have yet to find a laptop or device that has a perfect OOBE for Linux. That being said i have the same issue with Windows and MacOS. Still end up a couple of days of changing settings, updating drivers, remove all the crap they load on the system etc. All though with Linux i have had to do more then that with Manjaro, EndeavorOS and OpenSUSE.
Hello Robert, great to hear your experience with the Framework 13. Could you share which shipping forwarder you chose to have it delivered to Sweden? Living in Sweden myself but was apprehensive about the choice of shipping providers since Framework does not officially ship here...
I already own a macbook but want another laptop for linux, I know it is redundant in a bad way, going comically against the philosophy of conscious consumer, but I just love the idea of framework so much. Earlier when they just aired they made the impression of wobbly, ugly laptops, but as you say, they are pretty sturdy, so idk
Buying an expensive item such as a laptop should be well thought out. I had to decide a lot on this. However after a year. I really love it. The screen is solid for me and quality is holding up nicely. And I use mine ALOT. So if you have the ability go for it. I reckon if you have another laptop then perhaps prioritize other purchases and once you know your fine. Grab one. You will be happy.
It does look interesting. But I don’t have a need for one. I could review one and send it back though. I more ultra portable type person. Got my desktop at home for gaming and heavy stuff. But I am intrigued.
Glad it was helpful. Honestly i am only single booting, i use VM's if i need something random on Windows etc. I have an extra 250GB storage volume (shown in video) which has ParrotOS on for cyber security work). You of course can dual boot or more if you wish. UEFI/BIOS is open.
I love everything about the framweork laptops, both of the models, but i have issues related to delivery and availability... for all North America based countries it's not an issue, as deliveries are fast, but for people like me who live un Latin America all deliveries are quite long, so in case of critical need for a replacement part it would take a very long time or too much price for express/priority shipping. Also there is the obvious issue of customs in Latin America countries, because it's recurrent that high value products get lost on customs or checkings.
I understand that. I used to live in Ecuador. Electronics are not easy to come by for some stuff. But the company is small and expanding. Now they are in the states and more countries in Europe. Officially not in Sweden lol. Even though that is where I am now. But once they arrive in Latin America then parts won’t be much issue. If imagine they will open in Chile or some thing first.
@@RobertMizen I am more concerned here for customs checks, they are famous for charging unreasonable random taxes for products they see fit or sudendly lose your products. Minor drawback is obviously the waiting for delivery, but that's manageable
I'm looking for a new laptop. I don't have a lot of money, but I don't think that my sanity will let me buy any other laptop that's not from Franework.
Re: Still using the desktop to do video editing (with Davinci) Sounds like this laptop (+Kdenlive) still cannot replace the desktop for your use case. Are you familiar with Technology Connections ' "laptop dock is awesome" video? That was 3 years ago.
Well this isn’t the framework 16 with a gpu. So while I can edit on here (it works well enough for most use) it’s just faster with my better spec desktop. But I absolutely can edit on my laptop. Just my routine for editing means 95% of the time I at home when I need to edit. I have a EGPU at work that works a treat with the laptop for editing and also even Unreal Engine etc. I have thought about a dock. I think I maybe even seen that video!
@@RobertMizen Oh I said "for your use case" - didn't imply you can't edit videos on the laptop, but you clearly feel you still need the desktop (you said in the video twice that you still use the desktop for "real" editing)
@@deersakamoto2167 Yeah, but for me the laptop is great for working away from desktop. I do not want to really do that kind of work while out. But yeah i get what you mean
There is 10,000 videos like that. I mention that in the video. This was not suppose to be a technical review but a opinion on living with it and how it’s been. Especially with Linux installed
Apple isn’t the best. They make good stuff but quality and innovation has dropped somewhat and my current iPhone is so slow now. For no reason. I know it’s Apple. They have been caught doing this. I think iOS is great, I actually like a lot of how Apple do things but the repairs, consumer rights, privacy, anti consumer practices etc. can not stand and the only way is to drop them until they change.
But the keyboard is totally shite. If you are a programmer, you will hate this laptop. The keyboard feels like 300$ acer. It is not a laptop for anyone that types a lot. Also the battery life is shit and it gets uncomfortably hot even with little load. I see this as a hipster product, it's not for professionals. I so much would want to like this laptop, but it's not even close to meet the requirements for daily professional use.
Keyboard for me is fine, and i program quite a bit on it. Id say the keyboard while not Macbook level, is better then lot of cheap laptops. My battery has been pretty stable with a decent day of work out of it. I do not use laptops on cushions or my legs much so cant say about it being hot on my legs but on the rare occasion i do, it gets hot sure. Like all laptops i have ever used. I do not know what your "professional" requirements are, mine however are filled by this perfectly.
I am a programmer, I type and work a lot. I really like this laptop. I don't have any of the problems that you have listed. Perhaps you are using older versions, the company is improving its product lines and everything is getting better.
@@a...b...c...d...e...f...g...0 Maybe I tried one from a bad batch? I think it was from early 2023, I am not 100% sure. The guy who bought it imported it from the US, so he thought it was to much of a hassle to return it. . I might try one again, if they set up retailer in Sweden so it will be easier to return if it is bad. The problem with the keyboard was that the keys where uneven, they had different resistance, quite significant difference. Like a bad 250$ Acer laptop....
Personally, I don't care at all about FAKE man made climate change. The Framework is an excellent idea and I'm evaluating it myself. Very good overview, thank you.
Agreed, but I think we should also highlight the government agenda of making people think they are responsible for becoming fatter, when in reality it's C.A.L.O.R.I.E.S
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![ARGENTINA vs. PERÚ [1-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 12](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xtI25ENDDSY/mqdefault.jpg)
Hope the video helps people to decide if they should buy a Framework Laptop or not. I would love to hear your thoughts on both why and why not also.
You will update with Intel core ultra 7?
@@zweiwing4435 I’m probably going to get the AMD one. I find their drivers work better in Linux and also their support of open source means a better moral choice.
But the new Intel one is interesting. But I’m moving soon and need to sort a new car etc. so large purchases are off the table for a while sadly
@@RobertMizen why Framework Company is not making smartphone version?
@@zweiwing4435 I believe they will in a few years time.
I'm 7 months in with my Fairphone 5, can confirm the sentiment "ruined all the other electronics for me" :D it really sets a new standard. Framework still doesn't ship to my country, last I checked FW team was asking feedback about keyboard layouts so I guess its close, so I'm pretty sure my next laptop will be a FW13.
Fairphone is next on my list. Tried one for couple days and loved it.
It doesn’t ship to Sweden either 😏 but got one anyone from the UK. Worth the extra customs tax etc.
I've had the AMD framework 13 for a few months and it's been phenomenal. I use it with windows because I need adobe for design work, and gaming. It's not a gaming laptop but it can handle games quite well. You can't get 4k Ray Traced gaming performance but its solid as. For my use case I cannot think of a better laptop. I'm excited to keep using and upgrading this machine for years to come.
If anyone stumbles across this video and is considering a framework I'd say do it.
I’d like to upgrade to AMD one also as it will have even better Linux performance. I’m thinking about external GPU also for gaming too to give it a try( but I have my beefy gaming desktop also)
How is the battery life on the amd??
Great video!
I already ordered mine FW 13 AMD Ryzen Professional
Can’t wait to see it :))
Gona be even awesome to use it :)
Thanks for the comment :)
One things comes to mind is whether the company will survive the next ten years. Founded in 2020, it still feels pretty new. If the company goes under, it's game over. It's hard choice for me. If you recalled, Google's Project Ara modular smartphone, Google cancelled the whole project. I thought that was the future. Let's see if Framework laptop will survive.
I think they will be ok. Google has a history of canning projects. I’d imagine they did that because as a percentage of the whole companies income it didn’t matter to them. Not compared to their other phone partners.
Framework on the other hand are entirely focused on this product line. Given the consumer focus right now, I’d say they be ok.
They recently mentioned that May 2024 had the best financial numbers for them yet so it seems they're still on the up after 4,5 years.
Companies usually don't see profits in the first 3-5 years so it's a good sign already.
My concern exactly, one could easily purchase a full coverage warranty plan and be future proofed. Not to mention, some of those upgrades later down the line are almost like buying a brand new laptop. Hmmm...
Thank you for the video, for the insights.
I'm a late college student in 3rd world country, almost graduating, so the best bang-for-bucks I can get right now is mostly old secondhand, thirdhand Thinkpads.
But I hope I can kickstart my job career well so I can buy a Framework laptop in five years and have it lasted up to 10 years and more!
Hope you can do it! It’s good attitude.
With the ease of replacing stuff. I think it’s likely they will last.
Owner of the 1st generation 11th gen processor Framework Laptop here. Laptop still holding out strong after 24/7 usage. Upgraded Hinges and speakers later. Issues after a while is that the fingerprint reader is a tad worn and I have to use a pin half the time. Mouse pad clicker is worn and I find myself having to hit it hard or multiple times to get it to work again, if it fails completely I have to turn on the touch sensor click functionality again.
Machine still works fine besides all that and whenever the motherboard decides to fry itself. I can upgrade to the latest processor motherboard without disposing the rest of the unit !
Thanks for comment. Will keep an eye on those parts. Easy to replace at least. Wonder how long they last.
I think my next upgrade will be the amd motherboard. Unless they do a nice arm based one.
eh I bought a mouse pad but didn't include the clicker part it was only the touchpad sensor, and I cannot find the upper keyboard with fingerprint reader power button for sale on their site so at the moment I don't think it is fixable @@RobertMizen
@@darkmugetsu6572 there is a thread on the forums for requests and they are good at listening to them.
I love the idea. I am not that guy who needs a new designer laptop every year. It just needs to be ergonomic, visually non intrusive, with a good display and keyboard...good for my work as a land surveyor and some occasional gaming. Looked at the FW16, but the prices are too steep. 2x the price of a comparable (performance) workstation/gaming laptop, and the prices of the upgrade GPU and CPU with motherboard is comparable to a whole laptop with the same specs. The FW13 has a much better price performance ratio. Hope the FW16 will be more competitive price performance wise in the future. At the present time it is only for a true enthusiast with cash to spend. If it will go down in price in a year or two, I will definitely get one of these.
The FW16 is a lot sure. I’m pretty sure though it would bring its weight back over time. Had my framework for a year and couldn’t be happier.
The price to performance ratio isn’t the best. But given the time and what I get from it, it will earn it back. Even if you pay for cpu upgrade. You can use the older one for stuff. Which I most certainly will. Second hand market also will be good.
Same with my Fairphone. There are better phones for price. But again, I try to support companies where I can. As long as the devices deliver what I need :)
@@RobertMizen I understand your logic. But right now it is just too expensive, and truth be told, it is like a first year run of a new model car. It has quirks until they iron out the manufacturing process. So no hurry to buy one. The demand is high, so the production is going to ramp up over time, which means lower cost of manufacturing. And I hope that AMD will help and support Framework, because AMD gaming laptops are scarce and laptops with RX graphics practically non existent. Which is a shame. The AMD mobile CPU´s are superior to Intel in every way. For what I´ve seen from the benchmarks, the RX 7700s is quite competitive. But can I buy a laptop with one? No. Intel ARC is the same. NVIDIA rules the laptop segment. And I love good competition. I am all in, on the environmental sustainability and friendliness. But you can´t change anything with a few expensive laptops. I think that the people at Framework know this as well. And their goal is also to bring the price down. You have to understand that people outside the US don´t have the money for expensive toys. The price of a Framework 16 with a GPU, are two net monthly average incomes here in Slovakia (EU). That is a lot of money if you run a business, have a family and a mortgage 😉 You have to think about what the average Joe and Marry can pay. Why do you think midrange laptops are selling like hot cakes? Price performance ratio. Even the FW13 has a somewhat acceptable, with one eye shut, PP ratio. The FW16 is...really bad right now. The price has to be competitive, to really change something. Peoples love for the environment ends at their wallets. Just look how much cheap clothes women buy. And we guys walk around in one jeans until the seams separate 😂 And that is why I would buy a FW16 and pay a reasonable amount extra like 15%. I don´t care if the case is scratched. I would use and upgrade it until it falls apart completely. And buy a new case and shove the internals from one case into another. Just not for this price. The FW is a genius idea non the less.
Nice review
Thanks very much :)
For now I am keeping my ageing ThinkPad e585 in use, as it still suffices.
In a way it's neat how it's one of the first TPs with an AMD APU, but this also makes it quite slow, even running Linux (Garuda Linux, in case you're curious).
I am preparing for making an upgrade soon, either to some other TP or a Framework 16.
Next to being twice as expensive (but worthwhile in the long term), what makes me hesitant is that I don't think I would like the touchpad and keyboard.
This as I am very accustomed to the ThinkPad style top buttons and heavier weighted keyboard keys, the Framework 13 of a friend I tried felt like a big downgrade.
Which I can probably get past, but it still won't be as nice as another TP, like the one I helped my brother pick, which I am almost jealous of.
But I'll have plenty of time to decide, as I've made the decision to start the next study year on my current laptop and to see how it holds up, now the programme will require heavier software.
I also understand. The keyboard and trackpad isn’t like
MacBook quality. But I grown to love the keyboard. Trackpad not so much but I don’t often use it anyway. Always have a mouse with me.
I'm waiting, patiently, for my batch 2 Q3 laptop. Very patiently.
Nice. That gona be good. Let me know when it arrives :)
Thank you for the video. Really usefull your point of view. Thislaptop is more for opensource and long term buyers.
It’s perfectly fine also for now. Professionals can code on it, it’s super light also.
I recently bought an AMD Framework 13 and it has everything I'd ever want from a Laptop: 3:2 Display, HDMI Port, USB-A Port, good keyboard, 7-8h battery life and decent performance. But I've noticed quite a lot of BSoD which were also experienced by way more customers. I will probably issue an RMA but still don't know what Laptop I should replace it with, especially considering the port selection on newer models. I hope this current issue is only bound to the drivers, both for the customers and Framework.
Wish I could offer some insight but I don’t have any windows machines (apart from a VM for configuring my HOTAS) in my home.
Linux has been super stable for me. No BSOD etc. My mates work computer which isn’t a framework but runs windows has been very shaky lately. I would put some weight on buggy updates with windows too. Has been not great lately. But have you tried you a refresh or install?
@@RobertMizen I haven't tried a reinstall yet, but I expect it to be related to the iGPU. I neither have issues with my eGPU connected nor in the tty of my Linux dual boot. I have tried both Framework's and AMD's drivers. BSoD happen sometimes every 5 minutes, sometimes after 20 minutes, 2 hours or even a few days.
I really don't want to let this machine go, but I wish I could know for sure if this is bound to the mainboard or the drivers. Framework definitely won't be able to replace every motherboard with this issue, as they did with the CMOS issue on the Intel boards. Currently, it's not reliable enough for me.
@@flyingwolf6 very strange and surprising issue! Hope you resolve it one way or another. And if it’s wider spread then hope framework are able to deal with it.
@@RobertMizen I believe I have found a workaround so I'll just document it here for people seeing my comment. Disabling hardware acceleration on all chromium-based applications including Discord and Spotify gets rid of this issue. There have been some report about similar behaviour on other AMD GPUs in the last few years. Personally, I have no problem with it staying disabled as Firefox doesn't seem to be affected.
@@flyingwolf6 interesting, I found out (about half a year ago) with my Ryzen 4800u laptop (Vega 8 iGPU) that the Steam .deb was crashing a lot when going through the menus etc. I disabled hardware acceleration in the Steam client and after that it never crashed again. So seems AMD GPUs definitely have issues with it
I *do* plan on buying the Framework laptop _but_ there's a very, very big catch for me: I switched to a Plank keyboard 5 years ago and I cannot ever accept typing again on the pitiful keyboards that most laptops have. I'm overjoyed by the mere fact that Framework finally caught up with us AMD users, and now, all I need is some way to have the laptop either have some sort of housing to plug my Plank keyboard in, or a way to completely cover the OG keyboard in order to just put my Plank down over it.
Never seen those before and looks interesting. I think that in time the sheer amount of community mods and developments will encompass a lot of different ideas.
I reckon you could find something as a temporary solution until a hard keyboard comes. But now i am intrigued by the Plank style too.
I know what you mean. I never use the notebook's keyboard or monitor at home. I have a Dygma Defy split ergonomic keyboard. It has even more advantages than the Planck.
P.s. The notebook should be placed on a stand or monitor arm to raise the monitor to eye level. It makes typing difficult. 😉
The planck is cool but be aware that it still has the wrist problem from normal keyboards. To fix it, the keys should be staggered inwards when going forward and outwards when going backwards. Another great (actually even better) solution is to have a split keyboard, but that couldn't work embedded into a laptop.
Maybe get the 16 and pray for / bootleg a plank upgrade! 😂
Jack Humbert has been prototyping an ortholinear keyboard module for the Framework Laptop 16
I wish it was more widely available, but I don't know if it ever will. I'm more hopeful for it to be a trendsetter (although we're seeing so many laptops with soldered RAM with the latest Intel Meteor Lake and most ARM PCs are released with it soldered too)
It will be. It may not be the “majority” but it will become mainstream. Certainly they will contribute to new standards and set trends but companies make lot of money reselling short life equipment.
As long as people keep growing their awareness of that BS anti consumer practice then it will get better.
But start with yourself, then your family and friends. Change begins at home :)
can you boost your audio next time? Good video regardless
I am always trying to improve as I learn. So I will take this in to account, thank you for the feedback.
Lenovo ThinkPads are well-built and come with a 3-year on-site warranty from the supplier. Additionally, you can easily repair and upgrade them yourself.
They are legendary. But newer modes are not. And Lenovo don’t actually support self repairs. You can’t easily get hold of official spare parts.
Second hand on eBay etc. Sure. But it’s not the same as a Framework.
@@RobertMizen In my country, they provide a reliable service.
You are right about the newer models being less repairable than the older ones.
I am still runnig a T14 Gen2 and it works great!
Unfortunately, I don't have access to Framework laptops.
Great review!
I sold my huawei matebook x pro recently and I've been thinking about buying a framework.
Kinda fed up with windows btw and Endeavour os seems like a good linux distro, what do you think about gnome on laptop?
Thanks for the comment!
I prefer KDE. Customize it but also GNOME works great on these.
EndeavorOS for me is great. Stable and I do lot of different things. Gaming computer at home has it on too.
It is sad to see most tech channel in CES 2024 glorifying "new stuff" like ASUS Zenbook dual screen to the level saying that "all other laptops will be seen as boring". Indeed it is a sponsored by ASUS contents, so this is their living. However, one should be critical that making a laptop more and more similar to a phone is making them disposable. Memory is soldered, adding screen in both sides making them prone to breaking/cracking, the problem of replacing the battery when it finally dies, to the extend of what Apple does by soldering a disposable SSD.
I think people need to slow down a bit and set aside consumerism, instead promote productivity. If it is productivity, then it is a reliable device that matters. For this, Framework gives a bit of light at the end of the tunnel, but it is still far fetched to truly ensure sustainable productivity. It is a startup nonetheless, hopefully a promising one.
Agree with you totally. There isn’t anything “new” and just because it’s new doesn’t mean it’s gona work. Those laptops gona be insane hard to repair. And after couple years Asus won’t be sending spare parts.
If it isn’t easy to repair and service I’m not Interested. I don’t know how we go to electronics like laptops and phones having like 3 year life span.
But framework etc are the way. That design is the way.
as soon as it gets a Miniled-panel option I'll come along
For the small laptop?
@@RobertMizen I was thinking the 16”, it’ll probably take some time.
I just bought a 16 and will be returning it sadly. I really wanted to like it but the build quality isn't great (panels don't seem to fit well) and the OOBE of Linux is just never what is advertised (not much Framework themselves can do about that unfortunately). I'm thinking I'll wait a year and see where they're at.
Fair, i have yet to find a laptop or device that has a perfect OOBE for Linux. That being said i have the same issue with Windows and MacOS. Still end up a couple of days of changing settings, updating drivers, remove all the crap they load on the system etc.
All though with Linux i have had to do more then that with Manjaro, EndeavorOS and OpenSUSE.
Can you share what you did to make the fingerprint reader work? Mine has been borked for months, even after a clean install (Fedora)...
Sure. I actually in middle of a video for that. I think others would appreciate some step by step on Linux and Framework.
Hello Robert, great to hear your experience with the Framework 13. Could you share which shipping forwarder you chose to have it delivered to Sweden? Living in Sweden myself but was apprehensive about the choice of shipping providers since Framework does not officially ship here...
I ended up having my sister sending it. She lives in the UK and then sent it over. I had to pay some import taxes too of course
Framework is now available in Sweden. :)
I already own a macbook but want another laptop for linux, I know it is redundant in a bad way, going comically against the philosophy of conscious consumer, but I just love the idea of framework so much. Earlier when they just aired they made the impression of wobbly, ugly laptops, but as you say, they are pretty sturdy, so idk
Buying an expensive item such as a laptop should be well thought out.
I had to decide a lot on this. However after a year. I really love it. The screen is solid for me and quality is holding up nicely. And I use mine ALOT.
So if you have the ability go for it. I reckon if you have another laptop then perhaps prioritize other purchases and once you know your fine. Grab one. You will be happy.
Have you ordered a Framework laptop 16 and will you make a review on it?
It does look interesting. But I don’t have a need for one. I could review one and send it back though. I more ultra portable type person. Got my desktop at home for gaming and heavy stuff. But I am intrigued.
Thank for detailed review, would recommend dual or triple boot ? Or is that possible with this hardware?
Glad it was helpful. Honestly i am only single booting, i use VM's if i need something random on Windows etc.
I have an extra 250GB storage volume (shown in video) which has ParrotOS on for cyber security work).
You of course can dual boot or more if you wish. UEFI/BIOS is open.
I love everything about the framweork laptops, both of the models, but i have issues related to delivery and availability... for all North America based countries it's not an issue, as deliveries are fast, but for people like me who live un Latin America all deliveries are quite long, so in case of critical need for a replacement part it would take a very long time or too much price for express/priority shipping.
Also there is the obvious issue of customs in Latin America countries, because it's recurrent that high value products get lost on customs or checkings.
I understand that. I used to live in Ecuador. Electronics are not easy to come by for some stuff.
But the company is small and expanding. Now they are in the states and more countries in Europe. Officially not in Sweden lol. Even though that is where I am now.
But once they arrive in Latin America then parts won’t be much issue. If imagine they will open in Chile or some thing first.
@@RobertMizen Well, I am from Chile and will be very happy to see them coming here, but as you say, we will have to wait until they expan to LATAM
@@ZenkiSagara Yeah. I mean I have had mine for more then a year without issue so replacement parts I didn’t have need for. But you could wait.
@@RobertMizen I am more concerned here for customs checks, they are famous for charging unreasonable random taxes for products they see fit or sudendly lose your products.
Minor drawback is obviously the waiting for delivery, but that's manageable
@@ZenkiSagara I know that, Ecuadorian customs have enjoyed much of my stuff lol
I'm just holding off for disabled AMD PSP and open source UEFI/firmware
Maybe take a while. Framework will be bound to agreements regarding the chips. But I know there are some moves about supporting other open UEFI etc
I'm looking for a new laptop. I don't have a lot of money, but I don't think that my sanity will let me buy any other laptop that's not from Franework.
It’s the only one that makes sense until other brands make repairable open laptops.
Re: Still using the desktop to do video editing (with Davinci)
Sounds like this laptop (+Kdenlive) still cannot replace the desktop for your use case. Are you familiar with Technology Connections ' "laptop dock is awesome" video? That was 3 years ago.
Well this isn’t the framework 16 with a gpu. So while I can edit on here (it works well enough for most use) it’s just faster with my better spec desktop.
But I absolutely can edit on my laptop. Just my routine for editing means 95% of the time I at home when I need to edit.
I have a EGPU at work that works a treat with the laptop for editing and also even Unreal Engine etc.
I have thought about a dock. I think I maybe even seen that video!
@@RobertMizen Oh I said "for your use case" - didn't imply you can't edit videos on the laptop, but you clearly feel you still need the desktop (you said in the video twice that you still use the desktop for "real" editing)
@@deersakamoto2167 Yeah, but for me the laptop is great for working away from desktop. I do not want to really do that kind of work while out.
But yeah i get what you mean
Hello Robert mizen I believe your sons name is Estéfano isn’t it?
Yeah that is correct. guessing your a school buddy :)
Missing from this video, or the description, are your Framework laptop's specs. Without this information, a lot of context is missing.
There is 10,000 videos like that. I mention that in the video. This was not suppose to be a technical review but a opinion on living with it and how it’s been. Especially with Linux installed
4:12
dropping Eifone! Wow - that is pretty much the OTHER END of the line!
There are things in between. Apple and the rest, until Faiphone.
Apple isn’t the best. They make good stuff but quality and innovation has dropped somewhat and my current iPhone is so slow now. For no reason.
I know it’s Apple. They have been caught doing this. I think iOS is great, I actually like a lot of how Apple do things but the repairs, consumer rights, privacy, anti consumer practices etc. can not stand and the only way is to drop them until they change.
@@RobertMizen Maybe but I was talking about Desktop OS and -hardware.
Not mobile.
@@derJackistweg same applies.
2:34
that is not true! Neither on mobile, nor on desktop CPUs. Intel´s are even very fast with their iGPU, as they accelerate via Intel Quick Sync.
But the keyboard is totally shite. If you are a programmer, you will hate this laptop. The keyboard feels like 300$ acer. It is not a laptop for anyone that types a lot. Also the battery life is shit and it gets uncomfortably hot even with little load. I see this as a hipster product, it's not for professionals. I so much would want to like this laptop, but it's not even close to meet the requirements for daily professional use.
Keyboard for me is fine, and i program quite a bit on it.
Id say the keyboard while not Macbook level, is better then lot of cheap laptops.
My battery has been pretty stable with a decent day of work out of it. I do not use laptops on cushions or my legs much so cant say about it being hot on my legs but on the rare occasion i do, it gets hot sure. Like all laptops i have ever used.
I do not know what your "professional" requirements are, mine however are filled by this perfectly.
I am a programmer, I type and work a lot. I really like this laptop. I don't have any of the problems that you have listed. Perhaps you are using older versions, the company is improving its product lines and everything is getting better.
@@a...b...c...d...e...f...g...0 Maybe I tried one from a bad batch? I think it was from early 2023, I am not 100% sure. The guy who bought it imported it from the US, so he thought it was to much of a hassle to return it. . I might try one again, if they set up retailer in Sweden so it will be easier to return if it is bad. The problem with the keyboard was that the keys where uneven, they had different resistance, quite significant difference. Like a bad 250$ Acer laptop....
Personally, I don't care at all about FAKE man made climate change. The Framework is an excellent idea and I'm evaluating it myself. Very good overview, thank you.
I want to thumbs up and down this at the same time. But glad you thought the video was good overview.
Agreed, but I think we should also highlight the government agenda of making people think they are responsible for becoming fatter, when in reality it's C.A.L.O.R.I.E.S
People wouldn’t believe in air if our lungs didn’t use it