Monitors or VR? From a Real Racing Driver
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- Опубликовано: 23 сен 2024
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I'm almost 64 years-old, and by no means fast. Not super slow, but winning races consistently is a thing of the past, lol. I bought a VR headset a year ago, and even if I could afford triples, I wouldn't go in that direction. The immersion whilst racing, whether that be single player or against real people, is just mindblowing. Then there is the modelling of car cockpits. Just wow.
That said, I fully get why people prefer flatscreen. For all the reasons you posit. For streamers it must be a no-brainer, and for coaching it must make life so much easier.
This video is possibly the fairest I've seen talking about the pros and cons. I think the best solution - cost aside - is to have both. Some downtime, just enjoying the fun factor of VR to get away from the pressures of competitive racing. Great video, coach.
EDIT: I am a console user, with the PSVR2. Don't hold that against me
The only people that hold it against you are people who don't own PSVR2's 😅 there isn't a better headset for racing. I have literally tried them all lol
Optimum just did a video with this headset too. He found a similar problem with tracking but came to a slightly different conclusion, saying that the tracking had a low refresh rate. He switched to an external "lighthouse" tracker and it apparently fixed the tracking.
Important: Neck Motion setting in iRacing with VR: 80%, with screens: 0%. And if possible get base stations + lighthouse faceplate for better tracking. Also get Comfort Topstrap for crystal and some fans for your face-speed will feel better and u will sweat less(I use 2x 1500rpm pc fans). I use both Crystal and triples on motion platform :)
I'm hoping for the moment a vr headset company creates a helmet design specifically for simracing, maybe something with mixed reality where you can see your rig and the game world at the same time.
🤯
I do not experience this shaking AT ALL, and I not only run VR, but also a motion rig. I do use the Bigscreen Beyond, and its glued to my face. I can turn my head with 0 inertia, and the thing stays planted and focused the entire time. I do also run the audio headstrap and that really helps secure it, plus its super comfortable for longer sessions.
Same here (except I'm still waiting on my audio strap) I'd really like to see Suellio try VR again with the BSB + audio strap and get his impressions of it. I think it'd be way different with how much smaller and lighter it is
So I certainly haven't been to the top 0.05% level esports competitions, but I have participated in SRO GTWC eSports America in ACC , and have friends who use VR who have done the same in both the American and European championships, and I feel quite strongly that VR is not a hinderance at this level as long as the framerate is high enough, 90fps at the very minimum. Personally, I can say that simply would never have made it to the level I'm at now without VR. I've never tried triples, but in my experience the phantom sense you get from being IN the car and feeling it move beneath you is just something you can't get on a single monitor.
Word!
I got 21:9 monitor recently, because I'm racing on a budget. Highly recommend if you're tight on money, but want to improve from a single 16:9 monitor. The one I got is MSI Optix MAG301RF, it has a quite huge discount here in Germany. 200Hz Rapid IPS with G-Sync/MPRT. Very happy with it!
I currently race with a VR headset. The original strap was not the best and came lose on longer races. This is entirely down to the strap design. I bought a halo strap for my own comfort and it gets nice and tight on my face. The shakiness you mentioned is not there anymore and any head movement is intentional.
Same, I was constantly adjusting the stock headstrap and was very aware of the extra inertia wobble. Going to the boboVR style headstrap was a massive improvement. My only complaint with VR is the latency and response time compared to monitors, that is getting better with each generation and is better on headsets not named the Quest which don't have to stream PCVR to the headset and decompress the stream.
@@Dietrichzw Don`t get a Quest for Sim Racing. Get a PCVR headset with display port connection and you have 0 compression artifacts and very low latency. Quest is a standalone headset that can also stream PCVR .
If you lower your graphic settings a bit to be able to up the refresh rate to at least 90 hz you will not have a lag higher than a high refresh rate monitor.
same. the basic quest 3 strap put so much pressure on the head, while a ratcheting one keeps it tighter but somehow also with less felt pressure, removing any headaches
As a quest 2 user i dont have to worry about the headset shaking, and my horizon always feels extremely stable. Quest headsets will probably be in most users price range. A quest 2/3 will always be the better budget option than triple monitor setup.
I can run iracing with low ish settings, 120hz with my quest 2. I cant recommend it enough,
You will need a 3rd party headstrap for a quest 2/3, the stock headsets comfort is awful, and it will shake all over your face.
(these are pretty cheap tho)
Out of curiosity, do you know how bad the performance hit is for a quest 2? I only have an RTX 2060 so id like to know if it would be enough
@@indofunnystuff you will need to run the sim in a lower resolution to be able to get a decent frame rate. The problem with VR is you can't have variable frame rates. It needs to run at the refresh rate you pick and I recommend at least 90hz for a good experience. Also, since Meta quest needs to compress and decompress the video stream, your CPU needs to be a good one as well. I had some issues with my Ryzen 5 5600 to run at 120 Hz. So I upgraded to a 5700x3d
Something is missing here.. the transition from advanced VR racer back to screens.. to get to the absolute top level. I can be pretty quick AND consistent in VR. As soon as I switch to the screen, I lose 1 second, and I make a lot of mistakes. But then again, I'm not racing for real. Great video
People like James Baldwin that race on higher level than him like Spa 24 , British GT in real life use VR for real race preparation (i think he have cv1) and monitors for e-sports. But everybody its different. I personally prefer VR (had a reverb g2 now primax cristal / 4090) but i not agree the cost its the same bcs you can run trippples on 3080 but for VR you need 4090 .
@@martintop2605 i run a 4090 as well. How is your tracking with the cristal? The light you have? Sometimes there is such a topic about real vs sim. 99.9% of us never going te xp real racing like gt3. Do like the idea that pros use vr before racing
@@martintop2605 thanks for saying this. I disagree with a lot of what he said, and I made a lengthier comment here, with one point being the cost. As someone who's invested tons of time and money into VR this video honestly pissed me off big time.
@@SimracingArnout The tracking in crystal its much better than in G2, the camera its not drifting from the correct position. Also the fov its wider and higher. I think VR helps you with driving any car even on the road bcs it feels more natural for the brain.
After installing the mod kit for my PSVR2, the shakiness issue is completely gone, and I can now comfortably drive for over 5 hours.
>"We will never forget the first experience in VR"
Man, not only did I not forget it, I can still taste it when I think off it (sadly for me, motion sickness kicked in and I ended up above the bucket).
Thank you for this very helpful and honest review. Nobody has really mentioned the point about the shaking horizon yet. Very good point.
As a race car driver i can confirm flat screens are like black and white TV's and VR is well.. VR.. there really isn't a comparison. The reality is some people just can't use VR without getting sick and that sucks especially if they love racing. Also, some people just learn they aren't that fast with that much information being provided. Most people need things like radars and indicators on the screen to tell them where other people are on the track because they don't have the skills to be aware of their surroundings lol.. which is kind of the entire point of race car driving. So with that being said, VR isn't even something comparable to a flat screen because the screen is flat. Even a three panel screen won't do. I rarely use my mirrors in VR. I am always spinning my head around. Which obviously you can't do in a race car but you have the sound and the feel and you can literally feel the cars around you and that's just not there with a three panel setup. In VR there are enough reflections to determine if there is a car around you without even using the mirrors or really even looking at all you can just see the lighting change in the cockpit of your vehicle in the way that isn't visible and you can't sense without VR. The amount of speed I can carry into my braking zones is unreal and the amount of immersiveness of VR just puts it on an entirely different ballpark. The fact they are even being compared is to please the flat screen players that actually think they can compete without a flat screen lol.. another thing is people are so dedicated for so long to doing things one way The plasticity in their brains is lost and they refuse to learn anything new because it's like slow and sluggish and painful. So they deny it because they are slow and they aren't used to being slow and they aren't used to having to learn so they don't. They lack all of the things a real race car driver needs. All of the top split can keep their flat screens. They aren't race car drivers😅
Currently running a Rift S for sim racing (I know it's a relic), but in the process of upgrading to a triple tv setup.
As someone who enjoys both sim racing and flight sim, it's also worth mentioning the advantage of being able to use peripherals, like a button box, much easier with triple tv/monitors.
That shakiness is why I am still using Oculus CV1 instead of my HP Reverb, on CV1 there is Zero shaking of horizon, ON Reverb on the other hand, I would need to run motion compensation. IO think itys because with Oculus I can mount the sensor on the rig, but Reverb has inside out tracking
A proper setup VR system can't be beat unless you are a streamer. I'm also a 7k dude. A 'proper setup' VR system is the important part.
Triple screens vs VR with both their pros and cons, will always be subjective. Having watched all the videos and forums on the subject before I started seem to favour triple screens but having tried VR, I never went back. Sure, if you can afford it have both, but for me if it was only one system it would be VR.
Not sure about iRacing, but the Content Manager for Assetto Corsa has an option to configure the shakiness in a way that the horizon doesn't shake but the car appears to be shaking.
I don't have a high end VR headset (it's just a Quest 2) but I'll never go back to triple monitors, and the main reason is that I can be more precise when aiming for the apex.
yeah i use a pico 4 via content manager for LFM and dont have that horizon shake but there is a whole bunch of vr options to tweak
I completely agree lol also yes shaking on a headset is absolutely uncalled for and I know many who get sick its not like real life.
User error tbh
My rig is set up in a semi-truck and I couldn't use triples even if I preferred them. I imagine others are space confined too. VR is honestly amazing technology, I was lucky enough to experience the Oculus DK2 and CV1 Rift before they sold to Meta. Ended up with a Quest 3 now, it has some issues but the tracking does okay and it's reliable enough to run endurance races with.
Thank you for this video! Moving from triples to VR seven years ago eventually killed simracing for me, because no sim really accounts for the way in which the car shakes around the body and how the neck and eyes move and greatly reduce shakiness of the horizon. Most sims have an option like "look to horizon" nowadays, but this usually introduces nausea when going down a steep hill. The only game that I know of that has physically correct neck and eye movement is star citizen (dunno if only on foot or also in cockpit view, though).
have you tried asseto corsa via content manager? has a lot of vr tweaks that has resulted in it feeling really natural for me
Need to try PSVR2. Definitely top of the line for racing. I put it above prime because of the lack of eye tracking and fake movements you were talking about. Plus the lights are like actually lights. The OLED makes it look like there are real electronics in the cockpit instead of something you can tell is being projected on a screen.
The vibration is just a setting within iracing. I have set that up to 10% just for the realism. You probably have it much higher
Complex topic. You bring up a good point about horizon shakiness. The reason I'm not jumping on VR is because I cannopt get 120Hz with a 4090. I can get 120Hz with a 5090 but, beside such videocard not being in the market, I'm not spending 2.5k for that card. I have triple 1080 240Hz and I run at 200FPS with a 4070 Super. There's going to be a moment where money will be able to buy a great VR headset that does 120/160Hz and a videocard that can support that. Then I'll absolutely have both.
6:50
Maybe the reason nobody talked to you about this is because it's not very common?
At least with my G2 I never had that at all - but I also strap that thing so tightly to my face that I think some people would be uncomfortable with that lol
I'm using a quest 2 and spent a lot of time modding assetto corsa, opencomposite and pure LCS is the way to go there for those struggling.
About the horizon aspect, there's an option in AC called "Lock to horizon" which really helps with that issue, not quite sure about iracing. A good strap is absolutely necessary too
AC looks and feels stunning. Only thing i cant get rid off is that horrible aliasing on some shadows and guardrails.
Either way, i love VR on simracing, you can even feel the rush on elevation changes.
90fps max resolution with a 3080
Peripheral vision is the big one for me, you totally miss the sensation of speed and situational awareness in VR. Otherwise love it.
Intresting because I race in very cheap VR headset ( bought used G2 reverb) and I'm not experiencing any horizon shaking at all. If i strap tight and settings are right ( refresh rate and stable 90fps) everything is smooth af. Only downsize is a bit narrow field of view.
Also a month ago I actually bought triple 27inch and spent like a week setting them up in correct position and angle. And to be fair... I just hated it, I was slower, I didnt feel the speed or car and it just felt like some random game not a race simulation and I ended up returing them.
I really recommend anyone planning to get triples after using VR to first try it out.
I would love the option of triples if I had the space for them. But I've been in VR for 3 years now and very happy with the Quest 3 currently. Maybe I will try the crystal light once the 5000 series gpus release.
I started sim racing on an xbox then have been on a triple screen setup for about a year. For me, i like monitors more just for the comfort and useability for other stuff. VR would be a crazy experience but ill stick with my triple screens for now.
I'm using a HTC Vive Pro ... I've found two main factors.
factor one ... Game from game has some differences in how the movement of the vehicle is transferred to the movement of the camera (player's view). For example, it is unpleasant for me in Dirt Rally 2.0 in very bumpy sections, but the movement is already unpleasant with the monitor, VR is no different. iRacing is slightly better, I feel like it has better optimization for VR (feeling comparison only).
factor two ... As the player holds the steering wheel and makes sharp corrections (even small ones), the movement can be transmitted to the player's head. This causes unpleasant vibrations of the VR set, and it is these vibrations that cause the biggest problems in my case, but I managed to learn how to control the steering wheel and at the same time not transfer the movement so much to my head. When you stand in a free space (Steam room is perfect for it if you're using that platform) and look around, you will find during testing that it is usually quick and jerky movements that cause problems. The sensors usually have trouble responding to these movements.
The main factor for me is space. I have very limited space to have a racing rig and VR is the perfect solution at that moment.
By the way, I'd love to hear a VR field of view comparison. I haven't tried any other VR, and with HTC it bothers me that I only have a limited angle in the middle of the field of view that is actually sharp, so I have to move my head more, I can't look to the side purely with my eyes. It took me a long time to get used to it.
I don’t care if triples would make me faster. VR is the most REALISTIC option and so for me the ONLY option.
Would like to see if the lighthouse faceplate would improve the shakiness? Laser tracking really is superior to inside out.
One of your last videos already convinced me to go back to monitors lol
VR is so fun and more immersive
I don't experience the shaking you're having. I see it's your wheel shaking your whole body so maybe that could be the difference. I use the Valve Index and my wheel is 9nm at 100% FFB tuned to just under clipping in iRacing. I've been using VR since I started sim racing and can't imagine going to a screen. You're right about immersion, it's not even a thing anymore. But it's still there with an aspect of hills and in-car modeling. Also going into turns and looking the direction you want to go. I tried triples on a track I knew very well and I was terrible. It just felt lacking something. My lap times are up there with the 5-6k guys but I have a tendency of overdriving.
i couldn't have guessed FPS vs Depth would be the difference .s. *(at a high level.) once you understand, frame rate and consistency is Key)
Field of view (compare to quest3 headset) , triple monitor better , for immerse , VR better.
I have to disagree with the shaking. The horizon is not “shaky” it’s that there’s no way the picture can split the car and horizon on the screens. I’m not looking at the horizon when driving I’m looking at the track infront of me. I’m WAY faster in VR. I’m 3.5 k iR and I do high 1.47s low 1.48s monza GT3 and 1.48s 1.49s in triples.
I guess it’s personal preference
have you tried the bigscreen beyond? seems like the perfect vr for simracing
iRacing has settings to lock horizon and reduce motion on VR. Did you try changing settings? I use a meta quest 3 and don't have any issues with that.
Honestly if the weight of the headset is bothering you for 3 or 4 hours g-forces and a helmet are going to be a serious problem😅
Quest 3 with a 4080 Super GPU, more than happy. And I avg 110FPS, that’s more than enough.
Could you share your settings and how you get 110? I can only get 90 and wonder if my quest and iracing settings could be better.
I would like to add that vr isn’t fot everyone, i tried the pico neo 3 link with my 3070 laptop, it had bad graphics with 30 fps so the experience was terrible for me, yes i tried all the fps optimization. I even liked single screen 27 inch better but now i have a 49 inch
I have a quest 3 and my biggest gripe is the resolution. I wear glasses as well and it makes things super hard to read. Ive been looking at Pimax for a while and was on the fence if i should get it or not.
Hey mate I bought prescription lenses for my Quest 3 coming from the Quest 2, glasses bothered me way too much and it makes taking on and off the headset much easier. I'd consider you do the same! I can read text well and have no issues, I'd suggest going that route before going for the Pimax :)
Dude, what? Sorry, but as someone who until recently exclusively raced on VR before moving to monitors, I disagree with some super important claims you make here. 1) PC requirements? Same!? Not really, good VR will require a lot of VRAM, and will, if you want good graphical experience require something with 16+gb GDDR (until buying 3090 TI, even with iRacing which is well adapted for VR it woud take for HP Reverb G2 with OpenXR ~15gb) - its simple - you have 2 viewpoints that have to be rendered, which is a lot different than one being mapped onto 3 monitors, and having more resolution in total on monitors, isn't that big of a factor as different viewpoints for graphical pipelines, 2) VR easier to setup??? Dude, there's millions of people complaining and many posts on reddit and youtube with people explaining their setup, exactly because VR is nightmare to setup! Especially if you use more platforms - its an absolute horror if you're switching from iRacing to ACC to rFactor2 to RaceRoom on a day to day.. 3) Cost- VR is cheaper? No - because of reason no.1 and the simple fact that, if you want good VR experience, you need a good headset, which costs. Insane graphics card, and the headset well compensate for good 3 monitors (e.g. crystal light you have here is 860 euros in Europe, and say 4090 is over 2k, while for trilples you can get well away with 4080 which is ~1.3k at the moment). I love VR and I've used it because I raced 2-stroke karts irl, and I did very much use it as training platform. Once you get it right it is an amazing experience, but as general user experience, it is still horrible, and as a professional graphics engineer, I know there's tons of space for improvement on the software and adaptation side - which we won't get if we have videos like this. We as users need to complain and motivate developers to up their game and continue developing and refining the VR experience. I love you man, but you need to be real. Have to say this sounds like very cursory testing and some first impressions video presented as a definitive guide, which most certainly it is not!
Chew gum while racing and see if the horizon issue goes away
My motion sickness decides it for me unfortunately.
Monitors are the only way 😢
can you show your setup
ReverbG2 / 3090 / 90fps / no shaking ? What’s that?
Single ultrawide 100%
To stop shaking with that weird horizon not being fixed on the quest 2 atleast you can just turn off head tracking
To anyone who thinks the Quest 3 is a good VR headset for sim racing, I would like to clarify that it isn't. The Quest 3 is a good standalone headset which happens to have the ability to stream PCVR. However, this comes with compression artifacts and double the motion-to-photon latency compared to a headset with a DisplayPort connection. Even a cheap Pico Neo 3 Link is better than the Quest 3 for sim racing. Those who claim that the Quest 3 is good for sim racing probably haven't tried a headset with a DisplayPort connection.
I ended up with a Quest 3 l because I started with a DK2 and then a CV1 ages ago... I've never heard of Pico so I checked their website and couldn't find a price or how to buy one... Every new arrival to the niche comes with great promises and pays to spread the word but the experience on the back end tends to be horrendous in some way. I was really interested in the Bigscreen Beyond until I found all the quality issues being reported online. My Quest 3 works but only if I baby the USB-C cable. The technology is impressive, I just wish the reliability would improve too.
With a little effort you can change settings and eliminate the artifacts by bumping up the rates. I'm using a Meta quest 3 now for iRacing and after putting some time in the configuration I have it In a good place to enjoy good races. I even won one 😊
Quest 3 using the link cable and 800Mbps bit rate is pretty decent. Wireless just isn't good enough for sim racing. If the PSVR 2 had PC support 8 months ago I would have gone with that but I am still happy with the Quest 3 because lenses on the Quest 3 are so good compared to other headsets. I am excited for the new generation of headsets that will have better lenses and DisplayPort input. Also unfortunately Pico headsets are not available in the US and I think the most recent Pico headset dropped DisplayPort.
I have a reverb G2 and a quest 3, got the quest 3 for standalone stuff but never use the G2 for racing anymore. Pancake lenses to good to go back from.
I see you have made it a point to disparage the quest 3 in MULTIPLE comments in this video. Sorry, but I like it just fine, by using Open Composite, a link cable, and a very high but rare im quite happy. No need to disparage.
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