UPA vs USAP for the Paddle Governing Body & Will is Leaving Selkirk
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- Опубликовано: 16 июл 2024
- Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
3:28 - Will reacts to Triple Black Diamond intro
14:00 - Will is leaving Selkirk
19:28 - Mark Pickleball OneX Thoughts
23:03 - Will’s partner for Dallas PPA
26:23 - Will plays a tournament with a trainer paddle
32:58 - PPA recap
36:54 - Gen 3 Joola decertification discussion
46:19 - UPA coming into Pickleball
57:01 - Will’s video was in a google keynote?
1:02:28 - Teaching content with Amrik
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I think the reason your Amrik video was so popular is because all your viewers are primarily like you in the similar state and skill set. Most paddle nerds are in the 4.0 - 5.0 level, so whatever you learn, is like a free lesson for us.
Honestly the most useful pickleball video I’ve ever seen was your lesson with amrik. I went from barely understanding my one handed backhand I learned from watching jay devilliers to having people constantly compliment my two handed backhand just because of that video. I think I’ve got back to watch it like 10 plus times its been an absolute gold mine and I’m sure the counter video you just posted will end up being the same.
This channel is by far the best resource for pickleball market information. Non-biased and just about facts not personal opinion.
I like these guys and their channel ... but come on, it is loaded with personal opinions, bias, and supposition. Part of what makes it entertaining for sure but call it what it is.
@@echochapman7657 I get what you're saying. What I meant is they aren't bending to the high end manufacturers acting like Joola and Selkirk fanboys. Even Will wasn't all about his new paddle and warned people. He could have easily acted like it's god's gift to pickleball.
I love the pop of the joola paddle. My resets are great as well. It feels very balanced. Hyperion. I was with selkirk for years, and I still think they have great paddles. The hyperion just feels great to me.
Would be great to see more lessons! Also love your gear/paddle talk as well.
126 swing weight and control……need a power model elongated 112-114 swing weight with a 12mm core and fiberglass, carbon, titanium mix with nanotac face and sunscreen! Chrisinator!
I had three Gen 3 Joolas and I returned them for the reasons you mentioned; didnt want to deal with complaints/social stigma.
I've always believed that badminton players would have the easiest time transitioning to pickleball because they already have to keep everything out in front of them when hitting the shuttle. Plus their reaction time, flickability, power, placement, and footwork align really well to pickleball. One of the pros at my club is an ex-baddy player.
Great video as always! Ideas for training vids with Amrik: backhand roll/flick, two-handed backhand topspin dink/roll, what to look for in initiating an ERNE/BERT, Fielding an ATP attack.
Yeah I love the rolls and flicks idea. Forehand would be cool too
@@amit212543 I agree. Forehand rolls, speedups, and trick shots would also be great!
You guys are THE ABSOLUTE BEST in the bizzzz….
Great and informative podcast. Enjoyed the start of the podcast. I made it to the kitchen. I need to see Will’s training video. Thank you, Chris and Will.
Is it plausible that Joola accidentally sent dozens of the wrong paddles to USAP last November for certification testing? Do you really think Joola selflessly initiated the current Gen3 debacle by notifying USAP of their "administrative error"? Did Joola have guilt feelings about sending the wrong paddles for testing last November and say, "I'm so ethical that I'm going to put my company in economic jeopardy and ruin my Gen3 paddles introduction by notifying USAP"? No, no and no!
USAP probably heard from the pros and Selkirk that Joola production paddles in the retail marketplace were not passing specs (grit and deflection) and decided to retest Gen3 paddles purchased in the marketplace. The paddles failed; USAP notified Joola; Joola had no credible explanation; USAP delisted their paddles.
accidentally????......no way
Uh no
Looking forward to your shogun review!
James is quick and witty with the banter. I like it.
Great video.
James has definitely seen your reply to his comment. Just happened to watch his interview with Briones a couple of days ago!
Great job! On the hot paddle issue and the UPA birth and them attempting to monopolize pickleball.
I think the next crazy thing will be pickleball manufacturers creating a slightly dumb-downed ball so that the paddle will no longer be an issue.
We’re all use to it, it’s been that way for the 15 years I’ve been playing softball. So I have 3 bats and they perform differently, 1 for ASA, 1 for Utrio and 1 for Senior softball and I use the 1 I need for the tournament I’m playing in. I could see pickleball going that route. Major League Baseball and college baseball use different performing bats.
I’d be interested to hear what your take on the regular Mark One is.
You talked about the different paddle spec rules for the 2 governing bodies. Softball already does this. We have 3 different organizations that run leagues and tournaments, ASA, USSSA & SSUSA. We have to use different softball bats for the different leagues. It’s been that way for a long time so I could see having to use a different paddle for USAP & UPAA events.
How does the softball community feel about it?
The best solution is to show up in a suit with that POS Willinator paddle. Oh wait it's sold out! What a bummer 😞
It's true multiple sanctioning bodies are in effect in softball, so you need to buy multiple bats which is super annoying!
If you want to play multiple leagues like ASA and USSSA. You need an ASA bat that doesn't hit as hard and has lower exit velocities. USSSA bats are hotter, so if you use an ASA bat in USSSA it's like taking a knife to a gun fight. "If you want to be a baller shot collar," (Lil Troy) show up to a USAA with the ASA bat😂
Multiple sanctioning bodies will make your life as a reviewer hell.
Even as someone purchasing a paddle/bat it is very difficult and time consuming.
Down the road you can add in the variable that if your bat opens up and becomes too good for ASA it will then go on a banned bat list. Then you are stuck with a worthless piece of metal.
Softball isn't typically a pickup sport, so the guidelines are set by the league.
What the hell do you do in PB REC play?? REC play isn't a league, so it isn't technically governed...
What a sh** show.
You guys are the best, thanks for keeping us informed on all the crazy PB antics.
I asked Joola for a return on my Gen 3. Optically it's just terrible and it's bleeding into rec play in my area.
In softball it used to be the equivalent of a delammed paddle in PB. When I playedthere were softball bat that had a certain core in them and teams wouod deliberately break the inner core to make the bat hotter
I haven't really seen any reviews or insight into this particular paddle, but could you possibly give your thoughts and possible review in the future on the Komodo Pickleball Katana? It is also a kevlar paddle that caught my eye and they are backed by Andre Agassi. Very interested in what you think about it.
I feel like if you did a paddle collab it would be a very thoughtful collab.
I really enjoy the Podcast Gentleman. You guys' chemistry together is great. I hope I get to watch you two and be entertained for a long time.... Will Congrats on the paddle well deserved.
Having now been hit by players hitting both the Gearbox and Joola Gen3 I think we have crossed the line for the power curve. How do you approve a paddle for use “before” it’s broken in and gets really hot.
i would love to see a lesson on aggressive third shot drops. would be very helpful for singles and doubles
Drive drop shot = Drip shot It's a drive with a lot of topspin low over the net. The key is to follow all the way through and to keep the ball low over the net.
nemoff is on the left and is righty but he did have 2 left hand put aways one that tagged Ben...they were also pickled in game one before having a match point 10-9 in game 3
The beginning is funny as hell!!!!
Think of the Control, All-court, Power paddle spectrum as horizontally linear rather vertically linear with a "bottom and top". Control being far left, Power being far right and All-court in the middle.
I switched to the Joola Gen 3 a few weeks ago. I'm signed up for APP NYC. I'm so angry about this I might not go.
These organizations are going to kill the sport. When the USAP was acknowledged as the Rules keeper, if there was a question, you looked it up in the Rules and it was settled. Then the PPA decided to deviate from the Rules. Now you'll have the UPA-A Rules. Let's look at the Rules for the Serve _ there are the USAP Rules, then you have the PPA Rules and now, there is a new Rule for the MLP. People will have to agree on whose Rules will be in effect at local Rec courts. Rec players will eventually get fed up with no uniform Rules and abandon the sport because, let's be honest, without a single set of Rules, it'll be chaos
Professional rules have nothing to do with rec play. The NBA updates its rulebook every year, and there's a different rulebook for college basketball, and another one for the Euroleague, and another one for the Olympics. This didn't kill the sport. In fact, the three-point line, one of the defining features of the game, was invented by the ABA, a splinter basketball league who introduced a bunch of new rules just to be different.
None of this affects people playing pickup in the park. You know how to play pickleball. You don't need to wait for a professional organization to tell you how to do it.
@@johnclikeman5041 I disagree - the serve is a good example. Unless you're one of those that don't care how your opponent serves, there's always going to be someone that wants to play by whatever rule gives them the biggest advantage. Would you prefer to serve using the USAP Rules, the PPA Rules or the MLP Rules _ or do you look the other way and not care? If you don't care, does that mean someone can break out the Chainsaw serve? Basketball Rules are one thing but let's be realistic and look at something closer to what we actually play - like tennis. One set of rules. Ping-Pong - one set of rules. Badminton - one set of rules. Even Golf has one set of rules.
@@billkennedy401 As a matter of fact, I do let people serve however they want. I wouldn't let them chainsaw serve, but that's not relevant as it isn't legal under any current version of the rules, and I highly doubt it's coming back.
Actually, I would say the serve rules show how the game will benefit from multiple governing bodies. The USAP serve rule is terrible. I support any other organization proposing and testing different versions of the rule until we find one that works. And once we do, the other organizations can adopt it.
@johnclikeman5041 The chainsaw serve is no more illegal than any other illegal serve. It's like being pregnant - there are no degrees _ you either are or you aren't. So why draw the line there? It's okay to swing down from your shoulders but you can't spin the ball? What makes you think any organization will adopt another's serve regulations? PPA didn't adopt the USAP and the MLP didn't adopt the PPA rules and they're under the same UPAA umbrella.
Rule 2.E.6.f is still listed on the current USA Pickleball Official website. As far as I can tell it’s still on the books.
Does anyone have timestamp of Will and pickleball featured in google keynote?
Joola gen 3 paddles have a crazy variance in grit, one had crazy grit and next one on the rack was a lot smoother! For almost $300 that's crazy!
I want to see a push up contest between Will + Chris. And then a 1 mile run competition.
I'm familiar with Byron Lee you've mentioned. I encountered him 4 yrs ago and we get to run across maybe 3 times? And I've been teaching fundamentals from all 3 racket sports to incorporate into the game of pickleball for 4 yrs now. I was able to stand with the guy toe to toe. May be the difference between us is that He is willing to go places to penetrate, and in search of 5.0 players to play with.
Got one right when it went live.
#wilinator come true!!!!
Thought on the harache Kevlar compared to the regular one?
I can confirm the my club LOS CAB in fountain valley banned the use of the new Joola paddles which my wife and I just purchased along with many other club members. We are all super pissed about. I don't see anyone following the rules however :)
One of the local clubs here banned them and a bunch of the players with them left that club and started coming to the club I play at, where they are assuming they are going to be reapproved shortly. Seems like a bad business decision.
Propulsion core IS the trampoline effect. Therefore, those paddles are illegal
I bought two Gen 3 Joolas to try, I had to send them back because all the mentioned problems plus I want to add that their quality does not matched their price 😢
KOTC made a small comment on the pod 7 days ago about someone from the "Kitchen" should have a leadership role. Kinda breaking the news of the UPA-A before everything went down
Idk if y'all watched the bronze medal match, but the Johns specifically Ben was not super engaged. He was speeding up balls he normally wouldn't. They would have played quite a bit different if it were a normal draw.
Would someone mind linking the trainer paddle for me?
Thanks!!
All of this Joola drama did not even need to happen. This is definitely a fail from USAP. Either the new test paddles fail and get removed or passed and left on the approved list drama free. They should have been left in approved status until proven other wise. USAP really caused an unnecessary 💩⛈️
the Mark Kinetic didn't do much for me as I was coming from the Ruby...i gave it to my wife to use
😂😂😂😂😂 Fkin hell Will. That intro 😂😂😂😂
We need a pickleball movie with Chris and Will called Challenger 2: Revenge of the Pickleballs. Here is the trailer: [Chris yells] "YOU WANNA KNOW HOW THIS REALLY WENT DOWN? AFTER YOU STOLE MY COLAB, I STOLE YOUR JOB" [In my most epic voice] "He stole his girl, his family and his employees" [Will yells] "PEOPLE JUST LIKE ME! GOOGLE LIKES ME! 6.0 LIKES ME!" Then they play each other one-on-one in the national 3.5 tournament using trainer paddles.
Joola probably submitted a milder version of the Gen 3 to pass the test. This will save face for both sides. The next batch of Joola Gen 3 will be toned down moving forward,,, therefore, the prices will be going up on eBay on the first batch of Gen 3.
I think that's a logical suspicion, but weren't the alpha versions supposed to be hotter? The Perseus Alpha is still on the approved list...
@@HeathTaskis they took all 16 paddles off the list
@@ubergoodair yes. But not the Perseus Alpha, which was the prototype before the production model. If you go do a search, you will see it's still there.
Come on Chris, a little balance...... you go on about the Johns brothers getting knocked out, but don't mention Ben won singles gold obliterating Fed, and he and ALW took gold in mixed against Bright and James without too much effort ...... I'd assume using the same paddles.
BTW: still think a big part of the Joola debacle was fueled by the online pickleball vloggers/reviewers'/ influencers pumping it up as much as possible, like sharks in the water sensing blood (visibility) all trying to show they knew more than the next guy..... and many speculating like crazy. It seems to me, much like the performance of the paddles, blown way out of proportion.
Ya, lots of Johns hate here. But on the other side of things, Fed was in 3 medal matches and lost all 3. He did get the silver in singles and doubles, but took 4th in mixed. Ben walked away with 2 golds.
Listening to the sound of the paddles when they hit, it sounds like Ben and Colin are not using the Gen 3 paddles. Any insight on that?
Ben is using previous gen with the new paint scheme
If Chris and Will were to ever paddle collab it would be called “Bros”
LETS GOOO
Technically Caden is left handed but plays right. Favorite shot~Lefty Overhead, Briones Podcast
Would love to know how Will weighted up a Trainer Paddle to feel good 😂😂😂
Willinator Sold out!!!!!
Yep. It was in such high demand, Dale dropped a second batch on the SixZero website!
This was clearly recorded before Will played AB 1on1. It has to be. When I saw Will's video my first thought was "oh shit... Chris will never hear the end of this..."🤣
Pretty sure Chris was there... It looked like it was at the Joola event.
Exactly, Chris is the person talking at the very end of the match. This match took place in March 2024 at the Joola New Orleans event.
I am definitely leaving my Magnus in my bag until they get reapproved.
Selkirk Amped Pro Air review please!
Re: Clubs that don't allow certain paddles... Legally do you want to be put in a position where someone may get blinded by an unapproved paddle. Is it a liability? How about a paddle that is causing bodybags to be 'The Thing'?
Tyson and Dekel get gold vs. Johns this weekend at Atlanta.
Bronze*** did you watch?
Winning the Johns for me is gold every time!!!
so now foam is not banned as of 2024 or compression material as you said it was banned in 2023 right?
Thank you for your time and posting. IMO, PPA/MLP were sitting on it until JOOLA was screwed and JOOLA is s huge contributor to PPA, so they brought it forward. USPA has been worthless for three years, at least. You better believe PPA/MLP will do what is best for the management egos. Mostly, dishonesty, zero integrity, complete deception. They have already proved all three.
whats up guys
They don’t test the pros paddles before events?
1beerwill > Pickleballwill
Willinator went full Drake and Snoop Dogg during that segment!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Chris getting the Adidas collab SOON! 😏😏😏😏😏
"you have that paddle i wont play" seems so childish its insane lmao
I play at two different courts and a club, and every single person I've spoken with says "who cares what USAP says, use what you want". On a side note, I think it will be great to have two different options, some people here want nothing to do with PPA, I could care less about USAP. I mean after all, to most people with a life, it's just a game.
The other thing that changed this year that I think contributes to the Johns Bros losing is the new ball. I constantly see them reacting poorly to it and it really does seem to bother them. We all know the ball sucks. But can everyone else handle it and they can’t?
Chris, Will playing/beating Anna Bright in Singles, dude, you play Ben, who plays left handed and still beats you. Up your game or change chairs with Mr Will-A-Nator.
If you own a facility, how can you let a customer play with an unapproved paddle? You think there might be some liability issue if someone gets hit in the eye with a ball hit with an unapproved paddle?
What are you talking about? There is no onus on an owner to comply with USAP regulations. It has no legal standing.
My Joola Gen3 paddle is sitting in my bag out of consideration. Waiting to see if I need to get a Refund. Meanwhile, I ordered the Apollo.
Please demonstrate that over head you spoke of! I need to see a video!😮
It’s not sold out…
ben beat fed who has a gen 3 in the single final so whats the math on that sirs?
Next paddle collab is going to the person who actually deserves it. The Aizecnator is coming up next!!!
Will is "Mr steal yo girl"
"Chris giveth and Chris taketh..." 😂
Pros are playing the Gen 3 now."BIG PICKLE" is really starting to smell bad.
I play with/against a badminton guy. Crazy overheads
Joola is going for a monopoly on spin and pop and woulodnt be suprised if they pay off the ppa
Pickleball can afford it (exit velocity) - if it is the right thing to do. I think it is the right thing to do to continue to grow the sport.
people aren't afraid of spin but they are scared to death of pop and power at the net
If you really thought that when MLP and PPA were going to unify pickleball, you are incredibly naive. Nobody has ever said anything good about PPA. Never. In the last three/four years. I remember when Tom D. bought PPA, people were saying that maybe he would turn PPA around to a more honest tour with integrity. Nope. IMO, he lowered PPA's standards even further. Did you see this last MLP a few weeks ago? Basically, it was a cheap PPA event with MLP formatting. No line cameras, no body cameras, no mics on the net or refs, and replays of line calls were a joke. Now there will be two tours, one honest and one dishonest tour. That's it. At the PPA St. George, pros weren't even fed but were offered 'snacks' that were gone most of the time. They really are just a joke and ruining a great sport. IMHO. :) Mic drop.
You think greed is just coming to pickleball?!?!?!? Have you been under a rock? They sell pickleballs that cost maybe $0.50 for $3.00+ and paddles for $280 that cost $70 max.
Greeds been here buddy.
you are clearly braindead pal and have no idea the costs related to running a business lol
Joola: we sent in the wrong paddle
People who bought Joola: Bull Shit
I will be socially stigmatizing all my friends using the gen 3. (not stragngers tho...)
At least this week whats up is will.....
Yeah, new paddles…before the paddle breaks in and go out of spec. Total bs.
And Will beat Anna Bright. What you got to show your Hostness Chris? lol 😅
😂😂😂😂😂
Softball has usaaa, asa and nsa, some bats have 1 stamp some have all of them.
It's very annoying. I hope pickleball doesn't go this direction.
Gen 3 is too powerful. The fuq it's a technicality.
Is there social stigma against the gearbox gen 3? If not, those hypocrites can gtfo.
more people will definitely stop playing against gen3 people.. with the added power and even stigma that’s it’s hot. People are head hunting, and for the 3.5-4.5 level, they don’t have the precision/accuracy and people are getting bagged 10x more. Reckless
Sent my Joola back, going with Legacy.
PPA is scheming to become the NFL/NBA. And APP will become CFL 😂
Trainer paddle games are the 💣
It's amazing the amount of whining coming out of professional pickleball. I personally think the Pro's and the pickleball governing bodies (How many are there now?) are all going to ruin the game of pickleball if they continue on this path. It is a game after-all, at least it was 5 years ago until all the greed took the game over.
Have either of you considered using studio hearing pieces? Will wears one earbud and Chris you are frequently messing with your earbuds. It just seems like there might be something better suited for your pod.