Gilmore Girls Gets Therapized Lorelai and Luke Fight
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- Опубликовано: 28 май 2024
- What do you do when you have a massive fight with a close friend? What should you not do? Watch this video to see Luke and Lorelai fight, and learn the do and don'ts after a fight.
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00:00 Luke and Lorelai fight
01:00 Gilmore Girls clip
03:00 When anger takes over
07:00 Avoidance
#gilmoregirls #mendedlight #jonathandecker
I hate how she implies that Luke owes her and her daughter loyalty OVER his nephew
Right! Being angry with Jess is understandable, but getting angry at Luke for being concerned for his kid the same way she's concerned for hers is unreasonable.
No one has ever said this in the way that I feel about it! Lorelai says “my kid” over and over again as if she’s the only person that’s ever had one. Jess needed someone in his corner too, even if he was trouble.
An abandoned kid with 2 deadbeat parents who don't want him.
@marlyd the town basically wanted a legitimate reason to hate on jess and they had the opportunity they coddled rory too much that she was unsuccessful in her life while jess with less education turned out to be a very successful author and had his life figured out by his 30s
But don't you know the Loreleis are the center of the universe
I personally was upset with the whole town. The way they reacted about Jess was wrong on so many levels. Rory was the only one I agreed with. I think Luke was justified in how he reacted to Lorelei’s apology.
I was about to comment that the real reason why Jess is hated is because Lorelai doesn’t like him. I mean, nobody liked him. But she took very bad his attitude at her home. And I get it, he behaved very poorly but honestly, he didn’t do anything Lorelai hasn’t done before. As an adult. At her parents’. And it really hurted her ego that he was sarcastic about her and Luke’s feelings. She decided right then and there that he was a pos. Lorelai is the queen of Stars Hollow. Had she liked Jess, or tolerated him, the town would’ve come around eventually. But she wanted Jess out.
@@eride79 nobody liked him cause he was stealing gardening decor, doing silhouettes of crime scenes, stealing all the balls from the school gym...he was acting like a jerk, and in such a small peaceful town, they didnt like that. they didnt want to deal with that. the only fights they dont mind is Taylor vs Luke cause they laugh their asses off to them, but besides that, no one likes disruptions in that town
There is an iunacknowledged dark side to Stars Hollow. Rachel mentions it: she knows everyone is just waiting for her to screw up. Jess has to leave to get away from it, and ultimately so does Jess. The town is totally horrible to Christopher and while I’m not sure that isn’t justified based on what they know about him, it’s still not good. Once you make a mistake in that town it’s forever, you are always the story they tell about you and nothing else.
@@angeliprimlani9389 I think people glamourise the small town charm but it definitely has a dark the gossip the being in everyone's business and the lack of boundaries but also the mistreatment and assumptions made of any outsider it's not a very welcoming place
@@eride79 As an adult I can see that misbehavior often communicates unmet needs. Liz was a lousy mother, Jess had a lot of unmet needs. But he wasn’t only disliked because of Lorelai. He stole things, he mouthed off to teachers, and got into fights. Of course we feel Jess’s pain knowing his backstory, but he wasn’t exactly trying to win friends and influence people and that isn’t all on Lorelai.
I think Luke was being distant because he was still hurting and by her leading with chit-chat and being cutesy belittles her apology. To Luke, this was a big deal and should have been a serious ernest apology.
Yes I'm the same way. I can accept that people are human and have bad moments but owe it you can explain without trying to shift blame. And like Rory and Dean he probably noticed her pacing back and forth. I would think she was trying to focus herself to apologize because she still hurt justified in how she reacted and she proved she
Lorelai didn't apologize, she rationalized, excusing herself.
Exactly. An apology would’ve been taking responsibility for her behavior and acknowledging it.
She apologized in writing which is not an apology. And when she tried it in person, she just proved that she wasn’t taking accountability.
Yes!! She just tried to justify what she had done, that is not apologizing
I mean… you’ve seen her parents, right? I think Lorelai does pretty well considering where she came from
She is very immature causing her to act in a denial of what Luke is going through. Luke is not wanting to deal with her irresponsible and not acknowledging his concern for his family
Her attempt at an apology was very immature and unserious. If someone close to me screamed in my face to go to hell & acted like she did, I would probably take offense if this was the "apology". To me, Luke is being more polite than he even needs to be. He's put the relationship on ice until he receives a mature, serious apology- but in the meantime, he's going to be his grumpy but friendly self without getting too close. Some people might think it's immature of him not to directly address things & that he's being "petty"- but he's not the one who needs to speak up and apologize. The responsibility for that is on Lorelei to seriously address the issue and use her words.
She wrote him a note on Garfield stationary too. Comes across as very unserious
This conflict perfectly encapsulated what I perceive to be one of Lorelai' great character flaws. She expects others to understand exactly how she feels, lashes out when they don't respond the way she expects, and then attempts to use humor before sincerely apologizing.
I agree so much! She does it quite often, like everything is due to her and she always deserved to be understood/supported and forgiven even she doesn't reciprocate with others. I loved the character at the beginning, but after few watches I started to see her as a bit entitled and selfish here and there.
My favourite part was the part Rory herself finally had enough after everyone in the town saying it was all jess's fault. Her mother shutting her out basically not even wanting to hear what she had to say about the whole situation and even ends up shouting at luke for not caring enough for rory was just crazy?? Jess was like a son to luke and her acting like this and not even thinking jess was a person was so crazy to me. My overall fav moment is when rory comes to diner and they have this heartfelt convo where luke even accepts rory was in the wrong but he never thought she can do no wrong he is the only one in that damn town who is actually sane
It's even more concrete than Jess being like a son to Luke - Luke was Jess's guardian and acting as his parent when Jess lived there.
I love that scene between Rory and Luke, too. I wish they had more scenes together - they had precious few, but they were golden.
That scene makes me sad. Rory & Luke are the only people who miss Jess & don't blame him.
Yes that’s a good point, Luke acknowledging Rory’s fault in the incident and accepting her apology is respectful to her and treating her like an adult. Her mom and the townspeople treating her like a sweet innocent baby is frustrating for her.
@meghanpesclovitch1347 no wonder she turned out the way she did was because of the cuddling from her grandparents, her mom and dad and the townpeople. Luke cares about Rory and loves Rory like his own daughter but when it comes to holding her accountable he does it flawlessly. Let's go back to s6 fiasco when rory wanted to leave Yale- Luke had the same reaction that Jess did and he had an air tight plan to get her back to Yale and keep her on track he didn't cut Rory out like Lorelai did and instead tried to talk to her about it. I would even dare say Rory got back to Yale because of Luke and Jess (I am sure luke would've said something to Jess about the situation and asks him to try because he knew Jess can get to Rory). Luke, Rory and Jess bond is a beautiful bond and that's why they are literally my fav characters
@meghanpesclovitch1347 I HATE HATE THE SCENES WHEN LORELAI DOESNT THINK SHE CAN MAKE HER OWN DECISIONS OKAY SOME WAS CHOICES NOT GOOD FOR HER BUT THEN GETTING MAD AT RORY FOR APPLYING TO YALE AND PRINCETON JUST BC HER GRANDPARENTS WENT TO THE SCHOOL WAS CRAZY DID LORELAI REALLY THOUGHT SHE WAS GOING TO APPLY FOR ONE SCHOOL AND LEAVE THE CHANCE TO FATE???
So there is a difference between forgiveness and reconciliation. Luke has forgiven Lorelei, but he’s not ready to reconcile & he doesn’t owe her that.
Forgiveness is letting go of the bitterness and anger. Reconciliation is rebuilding the relationship. Lorelei feels entitled to his reconciliation just because she apologized.
Luke is being cold, but that’s really only because Lorelei is pushing to hard for immediate reconciliation.
Totally agree. Understanding Loreli's fears and limitations would make forgiveness relatively simple. But her behavior provided new information about her character, which doesn't necessarily suggest that reconciliation is the healthiest decision. There were two kids involved in the accident. When one was known to be safe, and it wasn't even known if the other was dead or alive, Lorelei made it clear she didn't care either way. Acting that way because you feel scared and angry doesn't justify actions demonstrating indifference to the kid's life, and certainly doesn't make you trustworthy. She accidentally alerted Luke to the fact Jess might need help; it wasn't anything she intended to do, when it should have been the first thing a friend (or even an acquaintance) would do after checking on her kid. It's ok if this new information about Lorelei means that Luke doesn't feel like she's someone he trusts enough to be close friends with (especially without Lorelei consistently demonstrating changed behavior). You're allowed to make that choice about anyone, much less someone who demonstrates indifference to the life of someone you love.
@@denizday7785 And this is a perfect case on how reconciliation takes time. As much as Lorelei did something awful, they do reconcile. It just takes time & patience. You are not owed reconciliation because of an apology. You have to earn it.
And interestingly Lorelai trying to push Luke into a response, or a decision will cause conflict a time or two a few seasons from now...
So I appreciate that kind of honesty in the writing, you want to think they'll learn from it, but under stress and pressure it's not unusual to fall into old patterns of behaviour.
Lorelai is pushing too hard I agree, but do we not owe our close friends anything? Luke could be more honest about where he’s at. Lorelai is ready to get their friendship back and he’s not right then but he is also deliberately cold shouldering her to punish her.
@@songindarkness Asking what we owe our close friends is a good point. It made me think more compassionately, and I really appreciate that perspective. I feel like this is where TV starts to fall short. None of my close friends have ever acted anywhere near as hatefully as Lorelei did. Someone who acted like that in real life would probably have already demonstrated a pattern of inappropriate behaviors that would keep you from getting close with them to start with. Because of the need for drama in TV shows, personalities can deviate pretty strongly from healthy to unhealthy in a way that I've never seen happen in my personal relationships. Definitely good for creating drama, as well as good discussions.😀
Lorelai saying accidents don't happen with my daughter in the car is just a lie, given a deer hit her car while Rory was driving. Accidents happen. Also, Lorelai had no idea if Jess was okay because she never asked.
another thing is Lorelai never acknowledged Rory's wrong doing. Rory chose to get in the car with Jess, He didn't drag her to the car and force her in she willingly made the choice to get in the car.
Rory willingly chose to allow jess to drive her car even while they were distracted by ice cream
Jess did not always make the best decisions, but the fact that no one but Luke cared about his well being sickened me.
He is a teenager too. He is a person who deserves love and care too.
@@gabrielleduplessis7388 And that's why i'm on luke's side here.
A more mature Luke would be upfront about how he's not ready to go back to their previous dynamic. He knows what she wants, he's just not ready to give it to her yet so he plays dumb and aloof which has a small side effect of punishing.
I am really interested in Lorelai and Rory's relationship and how it might seem really fun and great but can sometimes be really unhealthy as well.
I watched the whole show a few years ago, while I was very close with my mother. I loved it and thought that their mother daughter relationship was so great. Since then we had a falling out related to me realising that this closeness was actually really holding me back and my mum being very controlling and involved in all my decisions. I wanted more independence and she gave me an ultimatum of everything staying as it had been or us not having a relationship at all. Since then I have consistently been in therapy and have been reflecting on my childhood and my relationship with my mother a lot. I tried to rewatch Gilmore Girls some time ago but I only made it through the first couple of episodes. I was triggered by Lorelai being mad and sulky because Rory hadn't immediately told her about her first kiss. She said something like "didn't you think about how that would make me feel?". This is exactly what my mother has said to me many times. I couldn't keep watching after that because I wasn't able to see their relationship as anything other than proplematic, unhealthy, and too close.
I would love to hear your insight on scenes like that and the whole "more like friends/sisters than mother and daughter" aspect of their relationship.
I am really sorry about the ultimatum and all that. I think mothers do what they can.
I am still mad about the mistakes my mother made but each year I feel I can understand her more even if I am not a mother myself.
I hope you are able to have better relationship with yours.
I'm so sorry to hear it came from a rough relationship with your mom -- sending all the internet hugs -- but I think your suggestion would be really interesting! Growing up, I always idolized their "friends over parent/daughter" relationship (my mom was the opposite), but rewatching it now, it's interesting seeing how that specifically has caused some of the main conflicts in the show. Don't get me wrong, I still like Lorelai way more than Rory as a character, but I think in conflict they bring out the worst in each other -- especially in the early seasons.
I'd be interested to hear, from a parenting psychology perspective, how to find that healthy balance between friend and authority -- and how Lorelai and Rory do it.
I was hoping you would cover this fight! I understand lorelai's reaction and luke was trying to be understanding of it too, but I don't think she ever really bothered to think of it from his even after she calms down. I feel like Luke isn't comfortable or ready to go back to the way things were yet.
True remorse isn’t about getting something, it’s about giving something. Showing remorse, giving an apology, does not guarantee forgiveness.
I think Lorelai wants to leave with their argument, at the end, resolved. Luke, however, isn’t really ready for it to be resolved. Probably because he’s hurt by how she exploded at him, but he doesn’t want to ruin the friendship either. Which means he reminds a bit stoic.
The fact that she thinks that the town and her and Rory should come before Luke's own family (No matter how problematic he is) had me on Luke's side on this. Family comes first.
As far as Luke's reaction to her apology... Well it wasn't all that sincere. Lorelai still feels valid in her reaction to Jess. Jess isn't some evil monster who went out to hurt Rory. It was an accident. Luke just wasn't ready to go all the way back to normal after all that. Some people have walls and once you hurt them it takes time to get what you had back.
I'd say that Lorelai went into that apology not really believing that she was wrong, and Luke was right to be done with her nonsense
You say Lorelei handled it like a pro with Rory, I agree that she was great at the hospital, but a few days after that, when Rory was home safe and not in pain anymore, Lorelei should've had a talk with her about her responsibility in the situation. She was supposed to be in the diner tutoring Jess but went driving around and let him drive her car, she was never held accountable for that by anyone
Yeah that’s what permissive parenting style is. Lorelai grew up with very strict and forceful parents that didn’t acknowledge her so with Rory she promises to herself never to parent her daughter the way she was parented which I understand but this leads to not grounding Rory (throwing the mom card at her) but rather let Rory make her own decisions on her own because she fears if she tells Rory what she is doing wrong, it will lead Rory to leave Lorelai or dislike her just the way Lorelai dislikes her parents. It’s very interesting especially seeing each point of view knowing why Lorelai asks this way based on her upbringing and is the same with real life.
Neither Jess or Rory did anything wrong tho. Rory isn’t on punishment or not allowed to drive around. I don’t even think she has a curfew. And it’s her car she can let her friend drive if she wants as long as they have a license. She’s not responsible for anything. For driving around innocently (outside of Dean) the small town.
He is hurt.
She is sorry, but not really.
He needs her to acknowledge that Jess, merit his (and her) love as much as Rory, in the same mannes as he always did to Rory.
Not that I ever thought Luke wasn't good enough for Lorelai, but this is where I started to think she wasn't good enough for him.
I think he has every right to keep his defenses up as long as Lorelai is going to slip in an attack against him near the end. It's confrontational and refusing to acknowledge the hurt Luke must be feeling still from all parties involved.
I don't blame Luke one bit for his behaviour at the end of this clip. Is it the best way to handle it? No. But I think it's completely understandable.
Lorelei's not a bad person but it really bugs me that she keeps treating the people around her like her playthings. As if the world revolves around her (which, since this is a TV show, it kinda does, but still...). Rory gets closer and closer to this later in the series too.
Prime example of this is the christening episode in season 6. I can't wait for your opinion on that one.
Yes, OMG that christening episode gets me heated every time she’s the worse, ruining your best friends day like that unforgivable 😒
I find it's best just to pretend season 6 never happened
I’ve done this too… I just couldn’t help it. I find this behavior exhausting.
Luke is stonewalling a bit. But I think he’s just trying to protect himself from an unstable person. She damaged a relationship and it takes time to heal. I think she does have to show that she’s a trustworthy person. And her trying to force Luke to accept her apology and act like nothing happened shows she’s not an emotionally safe person.
That is how my ex was. Lol thTs why i dont like him lol. Who does that...especially after lying about stuff. .keeping their exes hidden too.. like bro if u know thats weird why keep it a secret and lead someone on knowing damn well they already dealt with that in the past...
No Luke isn’t being petty, but Lorelei made it clear that her child came before his. She needs a much better apology. And this is also his place of work and his business
Of course to a parent her child comes first!
Yeah, this show never shied away from including after/out of work scenes for them, so for her to go into his diner while he is operating it is not fair. It's one thing to have their cranky banter overheard, but Luke is far more self aware of airing his dirty laundry in the open than Lorelai, who struggles with boundaries between personal and professional all the time.
@@crowguy36 that’s what I’m saying she cornered him where if he had engaged she would’ve caused a scene at his business
@@songindarkness and yet she acts like Luke is wrong for worrying about Jess.
I don't like being yelled at for things that are out of my control, like Lorilei did to Luke. And sometimes you can hear the apology and accept it, but not ready to comment on how it made me feel. The worry is that telling people how you feel could start a new conflict. And sometimes a cooling off period to decide how to move forward is needed. I tend to avoid conflict at all costs and I'm sure it isn't the most mature way to handle things, but it feels the safest way
Love Luke in this moment.
Luke is freezing her out. He's hurt. I'm not going to fall for this again. But we are not friends right now. Always lead with the apology. There are consequences.
Apologize and give it time. Be okay.
What really sticks out to me here is the exchange:
Lorelai: I want Luke back
Luke: He’s standing right here
Lorelai: No, he’s not
Obviously there’s a lot to unpack in those three lines, but the point is that Lorelai could’ve just said what she felt (which is way easier said than done!) rather than maintain an accusatory attitude. What if she said “I miss you” or “I want to be friends again”? Or both? If nothing else, that would put the ball in Luke’s court and allow him to do what’s right for him without any sense of confusion or coercion.
Literally just finished Cinema Therapy's _Labyrinth_ video. Jonathan seems happier in this video. 😁
I think Luke's burying any real feelings after his and Lorelia's fight and doesn't wish to talk about it or argue anymore, so he acts like nothing's wrong, and for Luke, that still means grumpy, but he's putting on the show of gruminess instead of the real persona of it he portrays in most other times.
That video and his one on Jess had the same energy 😂
Also this 😂
Lorelai acted like Luke had an obligation to her, Rory and to the town instead of jess. Luke cared about Rory like a daughter but Jess was his family he was his nephew. He obviously had an obligation to Jess because of his sister and he cared about Jess. Luke cared about both Jess and Rory and i loved how rory comes to luke and admits that it was partially her fault too. So for me I guess imo lorelai kind of overreacted to the situation. Both had faults but i am leaning towards Luke and Rory and their versions.
Luke has the right to feel angry and hurt. He knows he feels that way but he also doesn't want to admit it. If he still feels bad, then she has to respect his time
Lorelai is apologizing for the wrong thing and Luke senses it. She's sorry she screamed at him. She's not sorry about not only not giving a hoot about Jess, but also completely disregarding Luke's concerns about him.
PS. I'm so proud of this comment section for teaming up with Luke on this one.
When people discuss this scene, it is interesting hearing how Rori is put on this pedestal by the entire community and that she can do no wrong.
I understand Lorelai’s concerns with Jess, but I do agree with people that no one but Luke tried to get to know Jess. They just make assumptions that he already is a bad guy. Jess made some bad decisions, but it did not help that his mother left, dumped him on Luke, and living with a community who does not trust anyone new.
Instead of them just thinking “hey two kids got in an accident. It happens sometimes”, they just thought “oh the bad guy hurt our dear precious Rori and how dare Luke defend in his nephew”. It felt that way at least.
Jess deserved to be loved by his family too. And I am glad Luke stood up for him. In this scenario, I felt bad for Jess because he already felt guilty enough and did not need people to lay it on him more.
It’s very interesting to see how a person is the way they are based on how they were parented/raised. The way Lorelai parents Rory is through permissive parenting. Lorelai grew up with very strict and forceful parents who didn’t acknowledge her dreams/desires and never took time to have healthy conversations. So with Rory she promises to herself never to parent her daughter the way she was parented which is very understandable but this leads to not grounding Rory (throwing the mom card at her) but rather let Rory make her own decisions on her own because Lorelai fears if she tells Rory what she is doing is wrong, it will lead Rory to leave Lorelai or dislike her just the way Lorelai dislikes her parents. It’s very interesting especially seeing each point of view knowing why Lorelai acts this way based on her upbringing and is the same with real life. And it’s very interesting to take time and notice the different parenting styles in Gilmore Girls with not only Lorelai and Rory but “Lane and Mrs. Kim” & “Emily and Lorelai” having authoritarian parenting style and how “Jess” acts the way he is because of his parents showing a neglectful parenting style as a young boy.
I feel like Luke's being stand offish because Lorelai is only apologising for her words, while he probably was more hurt by the fact that she didn't take his emotions about Jess's wellbeing into consideration and didn't think that that would be his main issue. She still sees Jess as a punk instead of Luke's family
He acts like that because she didn't acknowledge the reason that she has to apologize for. It's not just say "I'm sorry" and everything goes back to normal
Random note to the Editor: All Gilmore Girls videos are just within the Gets Therapized playlist. Could you make a Gilmore Girls specific playlist and link it above Jonathan’s hands, please? Thank you!
The last quarter of S2 is Lorelai’s least likable time. She even gets irritated at Rory for not hating Jess. I really think Jess triggers something in her and it’s not just about Rory and Jess.
Maybe Jess reminds her a bit of Christopher and she's projecting? Like she's worried her daughter's going to date the wrong person and make the same mistakes as she did?
@@queencleopatra007 I’m not sure. But her rage at him that extends to the point when he gets a car in season 3 and she thinks he doesn’t deserve it. Many teenagers get in car accidents doesn’t mean they never deserve to drive again
I've seen other comments say he reminds her of herself like the snarky edgy teenager always with a comment and a sharp mouth ( that they both have) but also rejection the world and hostile to it like she was in Emily and Richard's World. This isn't my take just another comment I saw on the Internet but I see it now
I think it's because jess doesn't see through her facade and fall down and worship her. Jess sees her self righteous smug bs and her shadowy bits and reflects those bits back, triggering her.
To be fair, Jess has a bit of history of being a little 💩 toward her... But shill, her demonizing him and denying Rory's responsibility is ridiculous.
I don't think Luke is being petty. He cares too much about Lorelai to do that. But he is being cautious. He's still hurt, and he's not over that hurt yet.
Also, I'm so glad you have such a nuanced take on Lorelai's behavior in this episode. You pointed out the criticism she gets for her behavior, which I've also seen, especially about this episode in particular. But you're absolutely right, she's acting like a human would, and it's believable, and realistic, and she faces the consequences for it. And it makes for an interesting, relatable character, and for entertaining storytelling.
Eh, if it's anything, Luke's exploring the magic of "hostile compliance".
I love watching these videos. A lot of these things are things I've gone over with my kids, who mostly adore GG as well. Our biggest thing right now is dissecting Lorelai and how her teen pregnancy took her off the rails of her life, not in the sense of keeping her from graduating, partying with friends and going on to college. We focus a lot on how getting pregnant and having Rory, then fleeing from her parents home and going into the adult world with the opinion that as a mother she was justified at going full bore into that place. In a sense, a lot of her growth was stunted by the choices she made, which could be why at 30+ years old, her maturity levels are not at the same level as her peers and this is incredibly evident in episodes like this. At the same time, looking at Luke and his life, we also see how the trauma's of his life, losing his mother, his sister's addictions, losing his father and being such an outsider to the town's idealisms have closed him off, creating the curmudgeon we all know and love. Recognizing that, it feels like all the hurts have diminished his trust bank and he has no clue how to rebuild it and that's why he reacts as he does to Lorelai in those moments when she is being cute and humorous, rather than speaking to him as an adult would. He grew up too fast and she is still learning that. He's protecting himself and doesn't have the emotional tools to explain that to an immature but dear friend. At least that's my opinion.
I think he's still processing and he doesn't want to make a snap judgment so he's keeping his distance until he's grounded again.
Also your communication suggestion would work great for a married couple that had a major stake in repairing the damage quickly, but that's not this couple. Sometimes friends can let time knock off the edges and then they don't need to have an extreme confrontational discussion, they can start with something like "that wasn't cool" and get to the bottom of things in a much more calm manner.
This is one of the very few scenes where I really can't stand Lorelai. But that just makes her character and the show so much better and more realistic.
She doesn’t mean the apology. She just wants her backup plan coffee guy back.
Right?! Ugh she is exhausting
"Yeah, sorry because I see I have to say it. Now, get over it."
It’s honestly moments like this where we see like for how independent and self sufficient Lorelei is, she still reacts like a child in certain situations because she stopped working on her own interpersonal growth the minute she had Rory. Emotionally she’s a 16 year old girl when it comes to the other relationships in her life which is also why she treats Rory like a friend most of the time. The original show is so unbelievably well written to the pitfalls of each character and how it warps their interpersonal relationships in some way. Emily is proper and controlling, she has clear defined boundaries in her life but leaves little room for error or vulnerability from those around her. Richard is opinionated, goal oriented and defiant and he places so many unsustainable expectations on those around him that everyone is bound to fail. Lorelai is the product of a controlling rigid home and she’s a wild child, she’s stubborn, she wants freedom but she’s also so immature and is quick to place blame on others when things go south. Rory is demure and sweet and a people pleaser but she also is quick to fold in the face of real adversity especially when it comes to being told she didn’t have what it took to be a journalist. She’s more than happy to go running to her grandparents when she wants things and she seems to have this notion that everything should just fall into place for her if she does what she’s told and excels academically. I could go on FOREVER but seriously great writing haha
I mean, while we didn't see the written apology, the problem i would have had with Lorelei's apology if I was Luke is that it's mostly excuses as to why she blew up at him, and not an acknowledgement of why what she said is wrong. like, she doesn't say anything about how it was wrong of her to completely discount Jess's safety, which to me, is the biggest problem with her blow up. I do wonder if Luke would have been more forthcoming on how he feels about her apology if they had been alone when she approached him. I don't think she was right in that he was "mad" at her, more hurt and disappointed.
Perfect timing, I'm on my lunch break :p
I absolutely love the Gilmore girl vids!
Pretending there isn’t a problem or animosity when there clearly is and any drawing a boundary. He’s allowed to draw a boundary, but that’s not what he does here.
Exactly
I would say lorelai is the one walking into these interactions not acknowledging the problem. She tries to act like nothing happened and doesn't give a real apology, she gives excuses and tries to project and blame Luke for being the one causing the problem.
She is completely dismissive and invalidating of his feelings, makes it all about her and her feelings and takes zero accountability for her actions. I see her as being the dismissive one and ignoring the real issue here. He is the only one acknowledging that there is a real problem and that things can't just go back to normal. It's unreasonable for her to think that. She expects empathy to be given to her - she was upset and scared and human - but she has zero empathy and consideration for Luke. This trait comes up many times and with her and I see similarities with someone I know in my life who has borderline personality disorder and behaves a lot like lorelai. Not diagnosing lorelai just saying I see lots of parallels and relatability between the 2, including positive traits of charisma, wit and lovability.
This is a standard for Lorelai.
She calls Dean scum in public without knowing anything. The Jess stuff. The Logan stuff. Obviously how she treats Luke.
She sucks.
When she butted in on his relationship with Nicole drove me crazy & her trying to justify it. Luke owed her nothing in that regard.
Because nobody's good enough for HER daughter! They'll corrupt her! Its not like she could ever make bad choices on her own! /s 🙄
I think this is the mantality of a lot of parents when their kids start dating though, so its not unrealistic 🤷🏾♀️
@@queencleopatra007 I mean. Calling at 16 year old kid SCUM in public just cause her daughter is sad is beyond thinking that their kid is perfect or whatever.
@@Zahok1 buuut, when Lindsay's mom, in a much more justified instance, attacks Rory, then Lorelai thinks it's too much 🙄
@@magma4168 of course. Rory is perfect and Lorelai is the sun the rest of the world revolves around.
What I love about the writing of this show is that every character is realistically human. No one is perfect, everyone messes up every once in a while. This show does an incredible job of showing that good people make mistakes or lash out sometimes.
That is my favorite thing. Even Luke who is one of the most kind characters ever physically assaults people and makes big mistakes. Also, when they show the vulnerable side of Emily I really like.,“Bad people” are human too
Because of you I started watching Gilmore Girls from the start again (after a break, I had watched the show so many times before). And now you're reacting to the scenes I have just been watching in real time with each video :D that's so cool!!!!
I think it is telling that when Lorelei apologizes, she rolls her eyes. I don’t read her apology as completely sincere. I think she recognizes that she owes him one, but as you said, she feels that any apology at all, including a note on Garfield stationery, should result in instant forgiveness. I do think Luke isn’t ready to accept her apology, or to address his feelings on the matter, so he doesn’t. He certainly could have handled it better, but to be honest, I don’t know if that would have improved the situation.
The thing with Luke and Lorelai is they’re both terrible communicators. Lorelai blew the car accident situation WAY out of proportion. She had a right to be upset but she crossed a serious line when she said Luke had an “obligation” to her and her daughter as if Luke should choose them over his nephew. I think Luke was being a tad bit petty but who wouldn’t be when Lorelai indirectly approached reconciliation by trying to steamroll back into what’s normal for them without a hint of apology. Then, when she steered toward an apology, she quickly veered into “but I wasn’t in control of my actions bc x, y, z” instead of owning her actions as wrong and hurtful toward Luke. Again, they’re both terrible communicators so it tracks that they don’t say how they really feel.
I think Lorelai comes in expecting to be forgiven immediately and she's apologising with the expectation of immediate forgiveness and that doesn't feel earned or meant. And he's not there yet and if she'd given him space and vocalised she'd give him space, he probably would have felt better. You can tell Luke doesn't feel better about this apology. And I don't blame him.
Lorelei’s apology wasn’t sufficient. It feels more like she’s sorry that her actions had consequences than she is for her actions.
The biggest issue I see with this is Lorelai acting like she can just go back to the way things were and pretend she didn’t say those hurtful things to Luke. When Luke responds in a relatively respectful way, even if it is slightly petty, she thinks that she was justified, so she shouldn’t even have to apologize for screaming at him irrationally and blaming him for something that he had no control over. I think it’s indicative of the entitlement both Lorelai and Rory seem to have at times.
I'm with luke, she hurt him, then apologize but when she sees he is not ready she gets upset. Her excuse was my doughter had an accident and I panicked, but his nephew was in an accident to.
Luke is awesome, Lorelai is humanizing in these scenes, seeing her pettiness even if her wit is sharp. Luke is being a "cool-hand" he knows that Lorelai is emotional still, he's known her for years, an so needs to take his time, but you'll find out later. Lorelai humor is over the top and what Luke had to do to solve the problem, was not his or Jess's choice.
Let's not forget that the next day after the fight Lorelai expects everything to be normal. And she's shocked when she discovers that Luke went fishing. So obviously she doesn't understand the real impact this fight had on their friendship.
Team Luke on this one
I think Luke must have been gutted, disappointed, maybe ashamed about having to send jess home too, he probably had a lot going on in his bead about that, and i always wondered if he just was like 'i have bigger fish and feelings to fry than you Lorelei'
It's frustrating to see ppl try and talk about these characters in a black and white way. They're written and portrayed so well and are so very human. They're not all bad or all good. I understand Lorelai being consumed by her fear for her child as a single mother and her frustration towards Luke in the second scene where he's not giving her much to work with. But I also understand Luke's anger towards Lorelai for showing such animosity towards his nephew and no concern for his well being, and in the second scene when her apology is not the most well spoken apology one has heard. I love their friendship and relationship and how they never have to apologize to each other for being authentically themselves.
I love your GG reactions ❤
It helps that there was tension in real life between the actors. The acting is off the charts
"This is more intense than this show usually gets. This is not the type of drama the show usually owns into."
*Side eyes seasons 4, 5, and 6...sir you haven't seen anything yet.
I think it’s a little of both. I think he’s hurt and is avoidant. And instead of being honest “you broke some trust with me and it’s going to take some time for me to trust you again.” He passively punished her with his coldness.
For a long time, Lorelai was on Luke's side when it came to Jess especially when the town was getting down on Luke about Jess. So to hear Lorelei speak such words, I think Luke felt betrayed by her. Getting over betrayal is no easy feat. And she never said she was wrong and she was.
11:12 I feel like this is a pattern I see a lot with people. They will find a friend or a love interest who has certain values and qualities they admire (usually because they somehow benefit them) like loyalty or family values, but as soon as a situation and these qualities call for their friend/love interest to prioritise someone else over them, they get angry and/or feel betrayed. It's the idea of if I'm looking for a friend who will always be there for me, I cant get upset if she has to occasionally cancel on me to be there for her other friends. If I'm looking for a man who values family to settle down with, I can't get mad if he needs to leave the date to attend to his mother if she gets sick. The way Luke treats Rory and the qualities that make Lorelai consider him such a good friend are the same qualities that compelled him to take in Jess and to encourage him to hang out with Rory.
Luke was not being petty. Lorelai still hasn't taken into account what his feelings were that night. The apology was not sincere and she tried to play it off by using playful banter. An adult would have acknowledged the other person's feelings and asked for forgiveness. She wanted to explain her side and just expected him to forgive her. This is something I used to tell my former foster daughter - a person can tell when you aren't sincere and also that you haven't taken responsibility for your actions. This is part of the reason that I have issues with Lorelai and Rory's characters as an adult but then again I'm a somewhat emotionally healthy therapist from Texas.
„This show doesn‘t usually get this intense“ BOY he doesn‘t know what‘s coming😂
I think Luke is drawing a boundary but he's doing it in kind of a petty way. He should have clearly communicated the boundary instead of just being surface level polite but we all know communication is not Luke's strong point.
Lorelei, however, apologized for her own benefit and not for his. She wasn't apologizing because she regretted hurting him or because she was trying to make real amends, she was apologizing because she wanted to be forgiven. Her motive was to make Luke not be mad at her anymore because I don't think she really thinks she did anything wrong.
They both kind suck in this interaction but I am way more on Luke's side here than on Lorelei's.
I think communication doesn't always have to be verbal. For a less talkative guy like Luke, I think he's conveyed that he doesn't accept her apology and Lorelai obviously also senses it but the reason she's not apologizing better is because she doesn't really feel that guilty. She regrets the consequences but still believes her actions were justified. She still hates Jess and she's only even trying to patch up with Luke because Luke finally sent Jess away. Luke knows Lorelei enough and has seen her be this way with other people in the past, and he doesn't want to accept her apology until he sees some change in her behaviour, but she wants to go backwards again and pretend nothing happened
I always thought there was an additional layer here, where Lorelai’s complete rejection of Jess (who comes from a similar background to Luke) and adamant position that he is not acceptable company for her daughter was interpreted by Luke as a rejection of himself. He always saw a gulf between them, and this is evidence to him that she would never be able to look past that gulf (background, attitudes, values). It’s not the primary reason he doesn’t forgive her right away, but I always wondered if the pain from that contributed to his reaction.
i mean...it's understandable that Luke is a bit mad, for sure. anyone would be. BUT.... he is literally acting like Emily would. pretending he is being nice, and it's all good, and yes, you apologized so ok, Lorelai. no. we hold that behaviour against Emily, so we have to hold it up to him too.
Because yes, Lorelai probably crossed three red lights when she yelled at him, but she didnt lie when she yelled she had told him she didnt like Rory hanging out with Jess and that Luke was forcing them hanging out. Even if it was cause he thought Rory would be a good influence...Lorelai conceded because Luke is her friend and she loves him...but going against her judgement her daughter got hurt and her car wrecked...so she blamed herself, Luke and Jess.
is she apologizing for real? maybe not, cause she truly isnt sorry to speak what she truly feels about Jess. Dis she hurt Luke? Yes, and she knows, that's why she aknowledges it and apologizes, as shallow as it may seem. But Luke there is literally Emily on the first episode when Lorelai went to ask for money...or every other time they have a fight.
So maybe they are still mentally inmature
Luke should have said “I accept your apology. It’ll take me a bit of time to get back to our usual selves.”
I tried rewatching GG last autumn for the cozy season, and I couldn’t get past this episode because up to this point I grew increasingly frustrated with Lorelai and her immaturity and expectations on Rory, and especially with her pushing Dean towards Rory when he grew to be incredibly possessive and almost abusive in his reactions. Rory was clearly uncomfortable, but Lorelai insisted Dean was the good one. Then this episode, Lorelai somehow forgets SHE was the one who told Luke to give Jess another chance. I was surprised she became so against him, when I always found Jess to be just like the GG in wit and banter. I think Jess could have used some loving guidance, and I think he would have balanced out Rory’s strict way of life and she provide him a bit more structure to his.
Please make a video on Rory fights with Dean!
When I rewatched the show I saw many problems with Lorelei's behavior. For instance she expected Rory to villify her grandparents ob her behalf. She saw Rory moving in with them as betraying her but Rory built a relationship with her grandparents indepedenttly of Lorelei's history with them. Lorelei still acts like an immature teenager sometmes. I also didn't find Emily and Richard horrible like the first time I watched. Once you stop seeing everything from Lorelei's perspective only, many things appear different.
I think a little bit of both, but also that Luke is entitled to pettiness here - because Lorelai is oftentimes really petty, too. In a way that sometimes is even their kind of love language in a weird, dysfunctional, but (as a viewer) humorous way. I also think it's unfair of Lorelai to demand her old friend back without giving him time to process. He's serving her. (In fact, I think he never refused actually serving her even when they had a fight, he just in one fight refused giving RORY more than one portion, saying that if Lorelai wants something she has to come herself.) He isn't banning her from his life, not even temporarily. So he really is entitled to at least some way of showing "I do want you in my life, but I'm also a bit pissed right now".
I also have to say "Sorry if this cuts into your screaming time" isn't hurtful, to me. In most other situations they'd both have fun at that comment. It's snarky. Snark is great. Snark is the best love language ever. But I can see how people who have not grown up with snark being the shared foundation of a family bond and shared enjoyment can feel differently about this.
This series is awesome and i personally love hearing a therapist's view point on the relationships and the topics in one of my favorite shows!
Its a bit of an undertaking (pun intended) but would you ever consider doing a series like this on Supernatural? Itd be so interesting to see a therapist's view on the relationships, family and otherwise, in that show, particularlyin a broken/found family situation. Not to mention those boys NEED therapy. That'd be another incredible watch!
Hello! Love this channel and the other channel you have with Allan Seawright! I think he still had his walls up and he's never been one to open up much in the first place, so I think you might be right that he is not ready yet and he's setting temporary boundaries. I think he just doesn't know how to say that any more than Lorelai knows how to be direct in her apology. Both characters tend to be sort of afraid to talk things out with their loved ones, like with Lorelai and her parents and even though Luke does open up to her a lot he's a man of few words and he doesn't say what he feels for her in general. Because of his feelings for her that he keeps bottled up, what she said to him might have hurt a lot more and take more time for him to be okay with her or feel comfortable being vulnerable with her again. This might be a reach, and I'm definitely just a lay person when it comes to psychology, but in my own experience it hurts so much more and takes more time to feel comfortable being vulnerable when you get hurt by someone you have those feelings for and who you also felt comfortable with before.
I don’t think he was petty at all, and a lot of people would react the same way
I think he's being polite and distant for his own wellbeing. Lorelei lashed out, so she should respect the fact that he needs space. She's the instigator who did what she could to mend their relationship, it's in his court cause he could still be hurt.
I agree with everything you said. I think it's fair that Luke doesn't feel safe reengaging in that relationship, but he needs to say that outright. Lorelai needs to learn how to actually apologize in a sincere way and recognize that he doesn't owe her anything.
If I was Luke, I'd be feeling both.
I agree Luke should say "I can't talk about this right now" if that's what he's feeling.
But I think we all expect a "that's ok" when we say "sorry" sometimes.
I think Luke put a wall up rather than being petty because I usually do the same thing. He cares about both Lorelai and Rory, he’s a grumpy guy but if he’s open to someone other than his family, it’s to them both. So Lorelai lashing out on him and her not acknowledging he was worried for Jess too hurt him. So he’s being more cautious and slowly warming up to her again because even after an apology, forgiveness can take some time.
I love Lorelai’s and Luke’s relationship throughout the show, they have great chemistry, and as you said, lack of communication is there for drama, and it’s also the main problem between them all the way to the end of the show. And it works because it’s very realistic.
I don't think Luke is being petty. But I do think he is being childish and passive aggressive, because he doesn't feel safe enough to open up. He's never been too good at communicating his feelings. Here, all he needs to say, if he wants to be honest that "thank you for your apology. I appreciate it, and accept it, but my feelings were really badly hurt, and I cannot forgive you yet. I need some time."
He doesn't want to be vulnerable, so he's being passive aggressive to enforce the distance and time he needs, mostly, and maybe a little to show Lorelei she's gone too far this time.
I think Luke is being cautious, that's the adjective that comes to my mind when you ask. He doesn't want to be rude because he doesn't want to hurt Lorelai, but at the same time he doesn't want to risk being hurt again himself out of nowhere just as he has been before while he was caring.
There was still some things that weren't addressed that makes me think of how Lorelei's mind work. So when she goes to the hospital and the doctor says that the injury was a "hairline fracture", she doesn't tell that to Luke the way she told her mom later. She made the injury seem worse than what it was. Also, it was very childish of her to blame Luke over Jess being there.
Luke's behavior by comparison was way more adult than the screaming Lorelei.
I like that Luke didn't allow his secret feelings (well not so secret cuz it seems like everyone knows) for Lorelei cloud her actions. He could have brushed it off and went back to his ole grumpy sourpuss, but all it would do is show Lorelei how big of a doormat he is to her.
I don't like that Lorelei is so mad of what could have happened that she doesn't calm down and talk to Jess about what had occurred.
It doesn't make any sense. If Jess wanted to hurt Rory, he wouldn't have risked himself either.
If I were Lorelei, I would have tried to talk to Jess about what happened?
I would have been mad of him driving the car but Jess did everything right. Rory was at fault too because she didn't say anything about going back to the diner after ice cream.
And with the little information that both Luke and Lorelei the best thing for both to do (calmly) was look for Jess.
I like that they took weeks to reconcile. And that they were able to get pass this
Honestly I think Luke was trying to let go of his anger of her, but also wasn't ready to move past it. Unless the note was a way better apology than this one, she didn't really apologize, just said she was sorry out of frustration when he wouldn't act how she wanted him to and just forget it. And the way she says "I want Luke back" and then says "no he's not" when Luke replies definitely isn't going to make him feel safe to open back up to her. To me, that sounds a lot like "the only version of you that I care about is the version that's acting how I like you to act. If you are upset and want to hold me accountable for my actions, then you're not the Luke I want"
I'm 36 yrs old, I grew up with this show, I've watched that episode a few times throughout my different life stages. And even watching that diner interaction between Luke and Lorelai on your show. I can still say, from what I have observed in my opinion, he's hurt still, and he's being standoff-ish because that's how he deals with his own feelings. But because him and Lorelai never been in such dramatic situation before and emotions are high. It's hard on any couple to be in their first real fight, then trying to mend the hurt. Luke is being distant, but not out of pettiness, but because so much of his life has been turned upside down and mostly due to his troubled nephew. Luke has a lot to think about concerning his nephew. And Luke, he feels more sorry than Lorelai can possibly understand. Luke isn't acting like a child or being petty, he's just less inclined to talk about his feelings is really what it is.
I personally believe Luke was more hurt by her hatred for Jess and her lack of awareness that without Luke Jess has no one. Rory has a whole town of people ready to defend her at any moment. Luke is aware of this which is why her apology meant nothing to him because she only apology for being mad and yelling not for what she actually said that hurt him. Because I do believe she meant it
Her apology did not sound sincere. More like she just wants Luke to shake it off and move on. I don’t think he’s being petty… I agree with your second point.
I think he's keeping his distance to give himself time to heal
The way I read Luke‘s behaviour in the diner apology scene is that he is still deeply hurt but he also knows there isn’t more Lorelai can do. He knows she apologised and he knows she means it and in theory rationally she’s done her part and he obviously cares about her so he thinks he should be at the point where he forgives her. But emotionally he just isn’t. He doesn’t want to act like he isn’t because he thinks that‘s the next step expected from him so he tries to act like it’s okay but he also can‘t downplay that he isn’t there emotionally and can’t give Lorelai what she wants in this moment. So he resorts to, there’s no problem I‘m being polite I listened to you what more do you expect of me. Lorelai doesn’t understand that his “pettiness” isn‘t him already trying but thinks it’s him punishing her. So she expects even more of him than he is already doing and he feels like he’s being treated unfairly because his hard attempt is being criticised yet again
I think Luke’s inability to easily or fully forgive Lorelai is a reflection towards his unrequited feelings towards her. He’s way more hurt than he would be with anyone else, he doesn’t want to completely write her off, but he doesn’t have to tools or self awareness to acknowledge how he really feels about her and how deeply she can hurt him because of it
Believe me, Jono, the drama hasn’t even started! You got five more seasons :-)
I want to defend Lorelei here a little little bit. Yes, she is impulsive, emotional, and was being incredibly selfish when she was confronting Luke about Jess. But we need to remember that Lorelei didn’t grow up in an emotionally a healthy or safe environment. She didn’t have parents who cared to find out if she was OK when something happened. I often tell people that Lorelei is one of the most mature and responsible people in the whole show and that always surprises them. A lot of the time Lorelei can be so impulsive and childish that it’s hard to remember all the times where she steps up for other people. You’ll see it as the show goes on particularly with the relationship of Rorry‘s friend Lane and her mother. Laurie can be surprisingly reasonable and clearheaded when she is helping people with their problems rather than trying to deal with her own.
But Laurie never should have gone after Luke for caring more about where Jess was rather than Rorry. As Luke said, he knew where Rorry was and that she was OK and now he had to take care of Jess. Laurie doesn’t care about Jess and that is one of the hardest things for me to forgive. Just is just a kid and whether or not he’s causing trouble he deserves caring and compassion, even if Lorelei never got that from her own parents.
I don't really see Luke as petty here, I see him taking a step back from his relationship with Lorelei because he doesn't trust her enough to open back up. She said she was sorry for yelling at him and that's appreciated but at the end of the day she took her anger out on him and completely disregarded the fact that he was concerned for his nephew and wanted to make sure he wasn't hurt and she treated him like some rabid dog he brought into the house and not a scared punk kid who has had almost no adults in his life he could rely on. He cares about Rory, she's made it clear she doesn't care about Jess to him and as his guardian and someone who loves him that's going to put an understandable dent in their relationship going forward, like it would for any parent with a difficult kid. She doesn't apologize for what she said about his nephew or her feelings about it, she's sorry she and her friend Luke are upset with each other, which is a completely different thing. He isn't rising to the bait and striking back to hurt her, he's just closing himself off to her.
By the time of the second apology in the diner, Lorelai still had yet to apologise to him in person and so luke was being a bit petty but still, she hurt him and had not acknowledged it in person to him.
More Jess, more Jess, more Jess!
Hi, Johnathan.
I feel like he should have told her that how she acted was unacceptable for a friend and so he’s not treating her as a friend. He’s treating her as a good customer. That’s all she is at the moment because she broke that relationship.
Lorelai apologized but doesn’t ask to be forgiven. Never does ask if Jess is okay, just whines that things are not right back to normal once her anger blows over. Luke is not being petty here, he has not forgiven her.
See? I love this Luke. Edit: Luke is protecting himself. Doing what she is doing in public when he's not ready is unreasonable.