Has Kratos Gone Too SOFT?! The Original Creator of God of War Thinks So and Here's Why He's Wrong
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
- Has Kratos Gone Too SOFT?! The Original Creator of God of War Thinks so and Here's Why He's Wrong • Has Kratos Gone Too SO...
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So what do you think? Is this Gen X poison from a man/group that needs to feel ownership of the past character to legitimize why they never have to change as people? Or is Kratos cooler in the past?
Bro I don't even know what a Gen X or a gen Z or whatever that is all I know is that Kratos has pretty much grown from his past and him maturing is called character development he hasn't gotten weak he's actually gotten stronger
I like that analysis
David Jaffe really hurt these Norse kratos fanboys feelings. And it is hilarious.
Gen X poison? What does that even mean? Allot of Millennial gamers like Synthetic Man don't appreciate the new God of War games either.
@@ItalianIrishguy yeah I don't really get this whole Gen X or gen Z or whatever that kind of crap is it maybe I'm just a boomer or something I don't know
If the new Kratos is considered 'soft', then 'soft' is one heck of a compliment.
He is soft he does nothing all of ragnarok
Well he is soft. But that's literally the whole point. And that's not what Jaffe was even saying.
@@raulendymion6050 bro probably didn't play Ragnarok
@@raulendymion6050you’ve must not played ragnorok at all if you thinks he’s “soft”
He’s physically hard, mentally sharp and slowly softening in the heart.
The reason Kratos' advice is so loved and valued is because he knows the other side of Anger, Hate, Revenge, Resentment, and pretty much every negative outcome or decision one could go through. That means his advice has weight and can be trusted. His story is so loved because it shows that someone as horrible and hate driven as Kratos can be redeemed and grow. Be better. Even after everyone he as killed whether they deserved it or not.
In regards to him being Soft, that is just wrong. Kratos has proven many times that he will kill someone without a second thought if need be. He has and never lost the strength or will to do so. He took up the Blades of Chaos again after promising never to use them again to save his son. And not just use them, go into the harshest climate of the Nine Realms to acquire what he needed to save him. That is not soft by any means, it's the definition of using your strength and power to help and protect people.
"The measure of a man is what he does with power." - Plato
The quote used at the beginning of God of War 3.
Beautifully said 👏 ❤️
I don't know how to put it all this time but you summed precisely what I thought about current Kratos.
He never lost his power and raw strength. He never softened. He kills when he decided to. He rages. He just....talks a lot in Ragnarok. He became a little too wholesome and out of character for me.
But personally, to me, ragnarok has the best fights. His battle with Thor in the beginning of the game will forever be iconic because it was so memorable.
I wish the next GOW Installment Kratos would be more calm, mysterious and collected again just like in the 2018 installment.
@@amriperkasa8229 he too trusting now
2018 is good
but in ragnarok it's like he don't learn the mistake of the past
Kratos not being consumed with anger and revenge doesn't make him soft it makes him a better person
Yes
Being sad for defending himself agaisnt people who are clearly trying to kill him without mercy is pathetic
But he definitely way stronger tho
@@zedoplantao just give one of those examples
@@zedoplantaodefenseless civilians murdered for health orbs and to charge his Spartan Rage do not count as merciless enemies.
The people who played original gows have grown up. GOW grew with them. Literally they still service their fan base after all these years. For me, meeting dad kratos was like meeting a childhood friend who had a kid. No game can make you feel that.
I don't think he's soft he was a father and husband in the og games to but we never seen how his life effects his family ( other then well you know lol ) I think new gow isjust what happen after and now he has am actually supportive group of people rather the th God of greace screwing with his head
"No game can feel you like that"
TLOU1?
RDR2?
OG gow wasn’t a shallow story either. It was just a different story. We still see the pain and suffering he goes through in the og saga, but in that one he has had everything he cared about destroyed in front of him. He’s basically driven to madness
@SeriousDragonify Neither of those games felt like reconnecting with an old friend that grew up. They're amazing games but the only real overlap there is TLOU1 is also filled with the dad vibes
@@SeriousDragonifybad take
I mean the reason why Kratos was even this bloodthirsty killer to begin with was because he lost so many people that were dear to him, including his family. By GOW III, he had nothing left to save and instead was left with this feeling of vengeance and hatred towards the gods that screwed with his life, something that he just needed to get out and even then, he took no pleasure in it.
By the time Ragnarok happens, he's given a chance to start over with a new family, make new friends that want to share his burden and has gained many allies that are willing to support him along the way. It's only natural that Kratos would mellow out since because in the end, he found peace with himself.
Kratos, despite his intentions back then, is the one who is soft here. He is easily manipulated (Athena) and he will sacrifice and kill anything that moves if it means his goals.
But the one in the present, is basically the points you made. He gave himself a chance to start over and be a matured person along the way. I don't really see why this Kratos is the "soft" one. Its just very contradicting.
He can't stay angry forever lol. This is why I like the direction of development with Kratos. Growth and learning from your past mistakes which is so relatable to us.
Yeah right it is relatable that a person can be angry forever. Hell half of history is built upon people being angry over a blood debt of some kind.. so it's very believable that he can be angry Forever at every single God. Case in point Gor the god butcher from the comics not the movie not that piece of crap movie that Disney shitted it out.
Gor the god butcher wanted to kill all the gods because people always blamed everything. On them besides blaming themselves for their poor decisions and poor planning. Instead of being accountable to themselves they would rather hold the gods accountable. So in his mind he thought that if there were no more Gods than people would have to take accountability. People would have to be responsible because they can't depend on the Gods to solve their problems.
@@risto4216 agreed
@@risto4216Fair point.
@@risto4216Nah, David is "salty" just because he didn't like the creative direction done to Kratos, which is legitimate.
There is no issue about Kratos preferring to be a Father, but especially in GOW Ragnarök, Kratos is far too dissonant from his past self.
@@yutro213 "dissonant from his past self" which is.... Ummmm... The point actually. He doesn't want to be that person again. More reason is that he has a son who will witness it all.
I seen a comparison to Kratos being a veteran. He’s seen and done stuff that now that he has time to reflect he understandably justifies but mostly regrets. And now that he has a son which is his second chance he wants to be better! He has not gone soft. He’s grown and changed. It’s the logical continuation of GOW 3.
He honestly should have died in 3 and left it at that
I've seen that video too
And why he should regret? Is that really necessary?
@@xxMKtooStronk__ so he shouldn’t regret for how he handled things? Killing those who didn’t deserve?
@@dragon_ninja_2186 Of course not.
It’s not about being “soft”. Current Kratos basically says he doesn’t regret doing what he did to the Greek Pantheon, but that doesn’t mean he wants to repeat it.We see Kratos in the first series basically driven to insanity after having everything he ever cared about torn from him and continually tormented by gods. He has nothing to live for except vengeance. Kratos never enjoyed the things he did, he even states that while he’s doing it. In the new saga we see him with a reason to live, with someone to protect and nurture rather than avenge in a horrible bloodbath. He knows the pain and destruction of that path and he certainly does not want to repeat it.
It should be noted that:
1. He only made(or involved) the first GOW before leaving the company to do his own thing so I don't he can say it's his franchise anymore.
2. Its funny how he is against Kratos being a family man now considering that LITERALLY in the first game the whole reason that Kratos wanted to kill Ares was to get revenge for tricking him into killing his first wife and daughter. You know, something that a FAMILY MAN would totally do if giving the chance (talk about irony).
Kratos grew up. Learning to control your anger doesn't make you soft, it makes you a grown up.
Is a samurai soft because he's spent years mastering his swordmanship to perfection? No, it means he's focused and mentally stable.
Damn bro you put that so perfect and facts
People thinking Kratos went "soft" are projecting their own insecurities because they are in fact "man-children".
I think Kratos is more in control of his emotions. If that makes him soft, then the world is truely lost. His character arch is one of the best tales of growth ever told in a video game
Kratos can be a god of hope and still tear enemies to shreds 😂 the only changes that he made were within himself and that can be relatable to many of us
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021you’re not too bright are you
He isn’t going to have any enemies, the creator is right expect he’s just saying it wrong they’re writing themselves into a corner nobody wants to see kratos go to mythology to mythology taking out Gods that’s literally brain rot lol and cancels out any character development the Norse saga has made, literally the only thing they have right now is the fact they kept the horn reveal for later which is stupid because Ragnarok was there moment and they sacrificed a amazing story to preserve a back up plan for when the fan base dies down and what we got was a mediocre god of cutscenes if you think god of war Ragnarok is a perfect game you’re a fool and never have consumed a single good piece of media
@@raulendymion6050The Ragnarok fight takes ten minutes... The fight with Heimdall was a little bit better than Hermes' fight. It was just a good Playstation movie.
Dual responsibility isn't uncommon for gods. In old Mesopotamia, a god can be worshiped as Pestilence and Childbirth at the same time.
@@eumesm9770 I was not impressed with any of the fights, I am not going off of the old god of war trilogy I am holding them to the standard they set in 2018 which IS a masterpiece just as a reference take the first Baldur fight vs the first thor fight sure the thor fight was cool was first obviously it’s hard to mess up but replaying it it’s just bland nothing happens in it lol expect for the hammer revival on the other hand the baldur fight spans all over kratos’ house/land they smash eachother into things it’s way more engaging and fun then thor just carrying kratos over the lake I will say they did attempt to crate a good fight by having thor smash the statues head off and stuff like that but it was nowhere near as impressive as 2018 and the thing with 2018 is that it just keeps going bigger, the next time we fight bladur it’s dragged into a whole other realm where’s every fight in ragnarok from that point on is a simple arena fight with a second stage legit ALL of them are like that
The creator said Kratos got soft?, so you expect a old man to act the same way, it’s called maturing and moving on from the past either way god of war today is still doing amazing.
Exactly couldn't agree more the only time he should be like that is when his family is in danger
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021To you, the number of people who bought the game disagrees with your opinion
He is the one who created the character. If he feels they made his character too soft then he has every right to feel that way.
If it wasn't for Jeffe Borelog would have no job as the director of God of war today. Jeffre made Kratos the ideal God of war.
@@BigJohn303nah he can keep his edge lord Kratos to himself. You should always hope for the best for your creation, not be bitter
Literally trying to shed a negative light on one of the best character developments in all of gaming. I hope he keeps calming and continues to grow. That may not be a message some fans of the series want, but it's one desperately needed. We must be better
I can't take David Jaffe seriously after he used AI to 'fix' artwork from the recent Zelda games. He even said that someone should send it to Nintendo to show them how to do art. That's proof enough that he fell off.
To me it's a funny argument because the same people who are complaining would be the same to say God of War fell off if the series remained the same just a new pantheon for Kratos to kill. Like I understand it's not what we grow up playing but then again wouldn't be boring after a while? Like is Kratos soft for snapping Baldur's neck, splitting Magni's face in half, choking the life out of Heimdall or admitting he killed Helios for the fuck of it?
In my opinion
The original trilogy is a product of its time, that includes its writing and story.
The same applies to the new god of war.
In regards of what the original creator of god of war said about the direction,i would attribute that to the "creators perfection",in it the creators tends to defend the original vision even if it changes over time.
While I do agree they are the products of their respective times, the 2018 installments were reasonable paths for the story to unfold.You have to ask yourself if they were to continue the story and keep the same essence of the original trilogy Kratos, how much development would happen when you consider what made him the Ghost of Sparta to begin with?
He’d be in development purgatory.Forever a spiteful, rage filled character with no hope for real redemption, growth, or closure. It sounds like a tedious story to play through.
@@Ksavage2010 exactly.
As mentioned in the video, keeping a character one-dimensional isn't the way to go. As long as a series with that character continues, character development is soon to follow. In my honest take here, the creator is unnecessarily whining; what he created is far in the past, and what he needs to do is accept that things change.
@Deimos001 well, I can't say the young Kratos is one dimensional, if he is the devs wouldn't have guilt, revenge, and genocides to work with. Its just not too deeply dissected in the original, just heavily hinted at, but the modern gow HEAVILY disected Kratos thoughts very well.
@@asscheeks3212 yes the original Kratos isn't one dimensional,but he ain't a multi trick pony, everyone who played the original trilogy will say this about him "he was an angry guy".
That's saying something,for as the new games he's known as "the father of father's".
It's all in the public eye basically.
we didn't need these new ones glad you liked them. tho@Deimos001
Interesting how David Jaffe's take about 'keeping Kratos in a fence' mirrors Thor's perspective. 'People like us don't change. We're destroyers.'
Kratos has honestly only become stronger by letting that compassion come into his being. People as angry as he was don't live long, they burn themselves and everyone around them out rather quickly. By letting himself grow, to be better, he's become all the stronger for it
Ughhh
His power comes from his rage, the angrier he gets the stronger he is. So wether he controlled his anger or not he was always going to get stronger due to Greek gods becoming stronger with age.
Damn, did homeboy really forget the 3rd game ended with Kratos's purpose done, family avenged, saw the consequences of his work, offed himself, and gave Hope to humanity instead of Athena? And then turns out he didn't die! What did David realistically think was gonna happen? Go to a new pantheon and "Grahhhhh, my new family in this new land was killed by Odin, I need to kill everyone and suffer again." Seems like such a short sighted, meat headed take.
It should be noted that Jaffe lost control of the narrative direction by the time GoW 3 was developed, he DID have his own vision of GoW 3, not a good one if you ask me.
@@hansalanson3497 Ooo, sounds like a fun thing to read into. Thanks for letting me know.
@@hansalanson3497If he wanted it to that go that way, he could have stayed with santa monica
David Jaffe just continues to make himself a punching bag by saying he doesn't like something that is popular and well received. Its his whole channel at this point.
I was a bit curious how the original creator felt about the new games. Now, after hearing a bit more of David and who he is, I kind of regret it.
Shit I fell for it
@@VideoGameSophistry I wouldn't say it's like you fell for his bait this video was a justified and detailed look into the matter. And I'm sure he means what he says, but this is pretty much just all he does anymore.
Anyone who thinks Greek era Kratos lacked depth or was one-dimensional, and who thinks that's what Valhalla was trying to tell us, either hasn't been paying attention or is delusional. The whole point of Kratos' speech to his younger self was that he has always been more than what everyone, including himself, sees.
David Jaffe also couldn't figure out destructible walls in Metroid: Dread, but that's none of my business.
He's a loon who's apparently fallen like the creator of Dilbert.
What I liked about Kratos’ soliloquy at the end of Valhalla is it’s not only an indictment of his younger self (and OUR younger selves) for being cruel and selfish, but it’s also an acknowledgement that he (and by extension, us players) were always “more than that” under the surface.
This feels like some high schooler got his Archive Of Our Own account hacked and got mad that the hackers left better entries in it.
He's such a bitter man...
it's such a shame.
He’s a veteran now he just wants peace
This about God of war. Not God of peace or God of father's
@@christianhenry4173 Tyr the norse god of war literally fought for peace. We are shown warmongers like ares and kratos are not something to strive for even if in the moment it creates badass scenery cuz of the last consequences
@@christianhenry4173He is god of war, not god of anger or edgy
Somebody mistakes being "soft" with being "composed", "kind" and "gentle". Kratos is still hard af, even more so than ever if you ask me; the scenes where he laconically and efficiently deal with Odin's verbal manipulation is a bigger deal that it appears if you consider Kratos' history of being made a fool over and over, he was finally able to effectively defend himself on a psychological front against very personal appeals; and God, Odin was a sweet talker.
This is just my 2 cents/my opinion: The original creator of God of War is one of those dudes who wants the character he created, to stay on some untouchable, unchanging pedestal. LOL and then literally saying "Look I get it...well...I don't know...", sounds like the guy may have some underlying personal issues. I think a lot of fans of the GoW series liked having this character development for Old Kratos. Like many a story told of a young soldier/warrior, fighting battle after battle and eventually winning their war, but in their later years, becomes an old veteran, who reflects on his mistakes (because no one is perfect) and tries to be a better person with the time they have left and to raise their children to be better than they were.
So yes, if Kratos has gone 'soft' in his old Age and majority of the fans of the series are loving Valhalla, then everyone should take note.
David Jaffe may have fathered the God of War series, but he wasn't the series' daddy.
*I’M CORY BARLOG, Y’ALL!!*
Greek era kratos is and was a tragic character. Valhalla just reinforced that perspective that kratos didn't see or if did was consumed with the task at hand to care.
When kratos won, it came at a tragic cost to him.
Norse era kratos is all of that, but tempered by decades if not 100s of years of isolation reflection and most importantly shame. He wanted to be left alone, he wanted to bury the past of his legend the monster he became, through choice and by circumstance. He is the personification of the destructive power of anger and rage and knows that it does not bring peace, just regrets. So he continues to try to be better, to show more of what kratos was shouldering and showing during ascension where his humanity wasn't entirely devoid by the time he was destroying Greece through his actions. Now he fights to protect, his peace, his family, his friends, his humanity, and the world around him.
I say all that to say this, the change was fantastic for kratos and it makes the character more iconic because with all that personal changes and challenges and growth, kratos is still the god slaying badass we grew up on 18 years later.
If you are the same person you were a year ago 5 years ago 10 years ago, you haven't grown.
People change, icons can too. Kratos isn't any less awesome now than what he was years ago, he is better.
My only complaint with how this all is, is that they didn't put in the blades of Athena, as a skin or Athena herself in the Valhalla dlc, she played a part in his story and it didn't seem like him resolving it by just acknowledging the monster he was, by putting on the blades to save his son was enough. That is my opinion.
But to keep kratos the same, would've been a massive disservice to the character and the franchise. Change isn't always a bad thing when done correctly and they have handled it perfectly. I want to see more adventures of this kratos in the future, and that of atreus.
2:13 ok these are his views, and he is completely entitled to his wrong opinions. Kratos is older and he has something rare in life; a second chance. He is more mellow now and he realizes what damage he did to the people and land he loved. He is a man who realizes he can never make things right, only better.
...because it was written that way lol.
You are disagreeing with the creator of the game, therefore it is your opinion that is wrong
@@rorschach7623creator of the og game. Not currently
@@Gomuza Obviously
@@rorschach7623 well that contradicts your statement, because if he is no longer the creator of the new games, then that means his opinion is not right on the new game
@@Gomuza He is the creator of the original games, without him there would be no Kratos, no God of War. If any one's opinion is irrelevant and or wrong it would not be him. He does not like the direction that people took his creation to.
If i make a piece of art and you take that art and adapt it, if i say it's not good then that is a valid opinion, one opinion that cannot be considered irrelevant and or wrong
Chris Jaffe is mad his fans outgrew him…
That’s an antiquated take by that guy. I have played each game and greatly enjoyed Kratos growth as a parent and God. Also despite him coming to terms with his mistakes and flaws , He we still wax everyone! lol
Eh, those that prefer the younger kratos can always replay the third game
This "soft" kratos just exploded heimdall's arm because he just mentioned the hurting his son. Yes i am a newbie to older fans, my interest start with gow 2018 but i always knew who was kratos is and i have to be honest, i never liked him. A man that punishes others because sword that he swung killed his family isnt exactly a noble man to me. But when new kratos tells "even good leaders make poor choices but best leaders take responsiblity of it" it hits hard.
Kratos isn't soft he's controlled and it's literally what he's been struggling through the norse saga
....because it was written that way omg every ass in this comment section is literally disagreeing with the creator of the game lmfao
All I’m hearing is that David did not want Kratos as a character to evolve. To call him soft as if his development wasn’t the reasonable outcome is laughably ignorant.
Star Wars has a lot of the same complaints that things have changed. But god of war has done it in a way that it feels deserved and earned. Star wars disrespects what came before it and does not provide an adequate replacement but tries to replace it.
Kratos' story is very much a grown man growing up and overcoming. The people criticizing him as having gone soft are the very kind of people the old kratos appealed to. They either refuse to grow up or they can't. The creator doesn't like the idea that he's getting old, that Kratos, as an extension of himself, is getting old.
Jaffe is like that parent who is jealous seeing their kid being more successful than them.
😂 bingo. He's outta the loop and wants his voice heard
That's petty. David does NOT have to like what "his child" has become. You people are just salty he dares to speak his own mind.
@@yutro213its not the courage to speak that irritates people, it's just what he said is really just a waste, and some are just wrong; he's welcome to make a clown of himself further, of course, no one's taking that freedom of speech away.
@@yutro213Facts💯Literally the only common sense comment on this entire video
Kind Kratos does not make him "soft," rather I think it makes him stronger. He has matured and has learned from his mistakes which makes him much more dangerous. Kratos is seen throughout the new game that if he really wanted to he'd easily waste his enemies. Yet he shows mercy and tries to show those that could change that there is a better way. He used to have nothing to lose, now he has everything to lose. New Kratos is definitely more interesting and in my opinion, way more powerful.
Kratos tried to commit suicide multiple times because he was sad. In the land of “chad hard”, that is the epitome of “soft” and “vulnerable”.
I've never felt so disgusted by something I would agree to
From a fellow Gen X. This guy has not grown up yet. Characters change and evolve.
Krayt is not soft he is a veteran.
I don’t have a problem with Kratos changing as a character but the game itself. The original games had a lot of spectacle, had epic boss fights, and showed off the Greek mythological lore. The Norse mythology with its gods and heroes are barely explored and the spectacle is gone. Artreus’ Loki story went nowhere, boss fights pale in comparison to the Greek ones, and the pacing was off. We wasted more time riding a yak in a swamp than Ragnarok itself. The Norse saga should have been a trilogy. Disappointing.
The word “soft” doesn’t mean that he becomes a pacifist like you said. Does he regret his past action? Yes. Does he still fight for his people? Yes. Will he choose war over nothing? If necessary. Ragnarok happened to stop Asgard and Odin. Sure, some may say he has gone soft, but that means he has changed. If a destroyer willing to change himself for the better, then that is much stronger than people think
Imagine you destroyed a whole pantheon, along with its land and countless people that resided in it, all for revenge against one god? How would you feel?
Kratos is still part mortal human, as we grow older we may regret and hate the actions we made when we were young and hot headed. But Kratos learns to forgive himself and accept who he was, he must "BE BETTER"... we all must. And Kratos is such a more in depth character now for it. You can see that even in GOW 1 he was already trying to better himself by doing the Gods bidding so they could get rid of his memories. Once he found out that they lied to him, the only out he saw is offing himself, either so he could forget all the shameful things he's done or save others because he knows that everyone around him ends up dying.
Kratos and God of War is Jaffes baby. I can see why he's putting in his 2 cents and all but what other direction can you go with Kratos? If Kratos was just an angry god over and over and over again, I personally believe it kind of would have gotten tiresome in some ways? Santa Monica already made 6 really pissed off Kratos games in the Greece saga, there wouldn't have been that much depth and story or it wouldn't have been told perfectly how the Norse saga has been told. It's damn near perfect in the graduation from Greek to Norse as it is right now. It would have been a totally different story if Kratos was God of War 3 pissed and how would you even implement his constant anger with the story to go with it? I think Kratos from here on out becomes the protector of the realms and kills only when he has too instead of chasing Gods down etc. What do I know? I'm just a huge fan of this franchise just like everyone else watching and commenting. Jaffe makes a point, so then, what's his spin on upcoming stories from Kratos? Does he just want Kratos to go to every mythology and just for no reason, start offing Gods and everyone associated 🤷🏻? Guess we'll all find out what Santa Monica does next with Kratos, we probably won't find out till the PS6 comes out. Happy holidays everyone!
Now while my first through for Valhalla is “oh this Kratos style therapy” I also think Dad of War was the logical next step. He’s not some BBEG where destroying an entire country basically doesn’t phase him. So I think the og GoW guy is living in the past.
It’s fine because they crafted a beautiful story to explain his growth. It makes sense. It wasn’t just something put together to ruin IP and milk the old and new crowd, which is a common model these days. Naturally there will always be some who prefer one thing over another, but the reception of the new games show it was a worthy story and a great choice to expand on the character of Kratos.
David is the one of the many examples indicative of how reactionaries are addicted to nostalgia and they will never develop in themselves.
"No Fuck You! That is NOT what this character is, whether it is indie or whether it is the god damn Kratos"
*5 seconds after looking up God of War plot*
Oh look at that, its about a Husband who got fucked over by the gods (Ares the main instigator) who tricked him into killing his own wife and daughter. And that WASN'T supposed to be his main driving force the entire time? So i suppose he was just killing gods and ruining millions of lives by proxy just because it was cool???
...Or as Thor described; "Because they hurt your feelings"
Sony Santa Monica be like: I am 4 multiverses ahead of you (or something like that).
It really feels to me after hearing Jaffe speaking and like a lot of these other culture war vultures on the Internet that they just refuse to grow up something which we see Kratos do throughout the ENTIRE SERIES we see him grow out of his youthful anger and into a more responsible and reasonable individual who can still use that anger in a healthier and less destructive way in order to protect his new family something these types of figures refuse to do instead choosing to live in the past spiteful of the coming future and it really is just a sad way to live in my opinion stewing upon your own misery instead of going out and doing the things that make you happy.
i see this discussion a lot in online spaces where men (even in fiction) are considered "soft" and less masculine simply for wanting to be calmer, more compassionate, all around better people not only for themselves but their family and others under their care. its a strange mindset that that implies personal growth and maturity with age and wisdom is unnatural and is so clearly projection of their own insecurities onto others. if kratos is soft to you simply because he refuses to mindlessly murder over an inconvenience that made him mad my brother in christ YOU are the problem not kratos 😭
Guy is the Garth Ennis of video games apparently.
Funny how the creator of God Of War doesn't understand the concept of character development. People can change, and so does Kratos. Kratos became the bigger, and better man than he was in his prime. He's a compelling character that shows that there is still hope for those who are deemed irredeemable, a role model all can aspire to be. Kratos is what David Jaffe isn't: a real man.
Kratos is a character that is a shell of his former self. Like a soldier that is consumed by PTSD; filled with regret; torment and general shame for his own actions, unable to forgive himself. And what follows in the two games? Thats not being soft. Thats character development. Clearly Jaffy doesn’t know how to spot it.
It is being soft. And it was necessary. If Kratos was as hard as before Atreus would hate him.
god forbid people with ptsd work through their problems.
It sucks David Jaffe isn't down with the new direction Kratos has taken, but given Cory Barlog has been part of the development team for the GOW games since day 1, and directed the best game in the original trilogy (2), AND co-wrote 2, 3, Chains of Olympus and Ghost of Sparta, I'd say he has as much, if not more, of a role in what made the God of War series so special, even before he shook things up with the 2018 game. Personally, I deeply, deeply resonated with Kratos' journey of building a new life for himself and coming to terms with forgiving himself for all he had done, and realizing that in spite of all that, he could be a better man. I also think it's amazing how we went from a franchise rooted in Greek mythology, to learning that in this universe, multiple pantheons coexist - it's like we went from a definitive end with God of War 3, to the Norse mythology only seeming like the beginning of what's to come.
Imagine if kratos never changed.
Lets say kratos still lays low in the woods but hasn’t matured.
Kratos would be much more punishing on atreus like he was with his brother as they were kids.
Kratos fights baldur and stuff continue as planned
Kratos kills mimir and brings him to freya
Kratos has his little temper tantrum about freya being a god ( she hasnt done anything to him so he has no beef with her )
Mimir would probably not be so fond of staying with kratos knowing he hasnt changed
Atreus becomes defiant but now kratos isnt wise enough to listen to atreus’s point of view thus driving them apart
Atreus still shoots kratos with an arrow as now kratos is blatantly showing he doesnt believe in atreus
More violent arguments when they get to hellhiem
Kratos either sneaks out of hellheim or kills baldur first
Kratos would also have no consideration for sindri when atreus tell him to shut up
(Driving a gap between atreus and sindri)
They exit world serpents mouth and baldur shows
Kratos doesnt care if baldur wants to kill freya as “it doesnt concern him”
So kratos either waits for baldur to kill freya and he kills baldur after or vise versa since freya will try to stop kratos from killing baldur
-ENTER RAGNAROK-
Freya is either dead or alive ( you choose)
Kratos still says no and the fight with thor goes as it did
Sindri and brok arent theyre to help him home
Kratos slowly makes his way home as odin and atreus have their talk about asgard
Kratos makes his way home but now has to either stay or be on the move as odin can just pull up whenever
Now idk how else they are supposed to survive from here but you get the point.
Maybe kratos could force sindri and brok to make him a bifrost but they could just hop between realms the moment he did anything. And with kratos acting like this it is VERY likely atreus would go to odin as a “breath of fresh air” as odin would let atreus be atreus rather than kratos having him trained as a spartan
If David Jaffe the original creator was in charge the story would be completely different in both god of war 2018 and God of war ragnarok. So you saying what would happen is unlikely to happen.
That actually sounds amazing hahahhahaha can I play that game ?
@@BigJohn303 and thank goodness it did'nt.
@@thehermit8723 no it never happen it will be just a doom guy game,
Did David Jaffee work on the later series? I thought he didn’t work on the later series.
It seems weird that he just wants the game to be a hack and slash, when the original game’s a story was based on Greek tragedy?
As far as I know: David Jaffe's work on God of war begins and ends at directing the first game.
I think the fans of the older character liked Kratos failing. They may have wanted better for him but never wanted to really see it. They view him as this kind of Sisyphus type Slayer.
Kratos' progress is good for him and promotes a good message for us but people loved watching how far Kratos would fall and how bloody/tragic his "rise" was.
The only thing I disagree with in this video is the suggestion that Kratos was a one-dimensional character before the Norse Saga. Kratos wasn't just the rage-filled bringer of death people seem to want to remember him as. The Kratos of old exhibited a lot of emotional range during his war on the Greek pantheon: rage; depression; regret; and self-hate, these were always themes the God of War series explored.
As for David Jaffe? I honestly don't even know why I'm still subscribed to that guy. I was one of the people who subbed as soon as he started his channel and uploaded his first video because I think he's one of the greatest developers of our time and his portfolio speaks for itself (God of War, Twisted Metal, and the little appreciated Drawn to Death), but he's also one of the most embarrassing edgelords on the internet, and this was one of his worst takes yet.
No he is not soft he just learning how to deal with his anger issues that’s all he’s trying to be better 😁
I think this is something they masterfully did : they wanted to create a story with depth and complexe emotion but instead of rebooting the serie to try and make it more into that they sayd "we gonna keep the unrestrained edgy vengeance plot and style of the og serie and we build on it from there" . I think it is really smart even after playing Vallhala it doesn't make the trilogy and its spinoff more deep or anything . It's still a story about raging cruel lunatic who is obsessed by his vengeance and that's all . All the depth is personal to GoW 4 and Ragnarok and it acknowledge and use the decomplexed cruellety of the older titles to tell a compelling story about growth , guilt and moving forward . It's very smart and respectable .
Honestly, if there's something I don't like at all about God of War: Ragnarok, it's that the DLC seems rather contrived. I mean, we know that Kratos has ALWAYS needed therapy, but it all seems so abruptly executed. I imagined his therapy would come with Atreus by his side once again after he's finished with his quest to find the Giants, with his son getting an even better understanding of his father's character. But instead, we have Tyr, Mimir, and Kratos basically using Talk no Jutsu to cure each other's emotional turmoil.
I also feel like the DLC didn't cover enough of Kratos' regrets. Why didn't Athena appear again, considering how she appeared in GOW4? Or even Hephaestus, whose daughter he'd also come to love? Deimos, Callisto and many others should have also appeared, but instead we got just a few of them.
Again don't get me wrong here, the DLC is EXCELLENT. But these questions do linger in my mind.
I think that’s a fair assessment
I think it's better for kratos to jot need atreus for this in the Valhalla DLC. One thing that is great for healing is also knowing when to look for it from other sources. Atreus has done a lot in helping Kratos become better but at the end of the day, atreus is his son. He shouldnt be taking on his fathers inner battles.
And kratos is acknowledging that and honouring his promise to Atreus. That they will both be okay without each other. And plus, it also shows that Kratos is now able to actually confide in people who can act as good outlets. Mimir is a good source of optimism and, whilst his failings are different as he was an advisor and Kratos a solider, it can be greatly freeing to know that you can fail in both lives and start making something better. And Tyr is quite similar. Since he is a God of war and seems to be like kratos except is far more balanced and embraced his role, he can help Kratos see the other side of the Spartans actions. Even to him asking Ares for help.
Therapy involves talking, A LOT OF TALKING. Opening up was the biggest part of this. i mean, what you said about Atreus and the other aspect of Kratos' regrets is really fair but Mimir is one of the people he can call a friend (best friend even) and Tyr, not just a fellow god of war, but also has a lot experience in this regard. They aren't just there for exposition in this therapy session of kratos, they do really make sense for kratos to be the persons he will open up.
Don't forget that Tyr was beloved by all the nine realms and how he was more known to prevent wars. So, in Valhalla, we see Tyr not only use his reasoning skills to prove to Kratos that some, if not all, the things he did back in Greece was completely done without reason.
Know what he can do rather than complain about it? Make another character! He works in the industry, so he can just do that. And then see why a character who’s always angry but doesn’t have the depth of Kratos doesn’t make for an interesting character.
He knew it wouldn't sell, he wanted Kratos of HIS vision to be that successful and loved without accepting the reality that it probably won't happen.
Kratos always had depth. The new games just ADDED to it.
“Not being a perfect person.” Well, that’s one way of putting Kratos’ past, lol. But yes, it is a good overall message.
Some people never change their high school mentality
It's ironic the creator of Kratos missed the entire point and dismissed Kratos being a father. Kratos' rage and anger was heavily a reaction to the death of his wife and child. He's been a father since the beginning. The difference is his child now is alive. He no longer seeks revenge.
That shows that his vision of Kratos might be never be as "deep" as a lot of people tried to argue, he treated Kratos' tragedy as a mere plot point to justify HIS preferred status quo. When more seasoned writers addressed that part of the character and made something more out of it, he talked like it never was there, that it made no sense to Kratos' roots whatsoever.
Tbh honest the new games made me appreciate the past ones in new ways that i never did in the past.
When i was young i played GOW most for the gameplay and badass moments, destroying monsters and everything without paying much attention to the story.
The new games made my love for the whole franchise grow even more than just the nostalgic feeling i had for the past ones, i can pick all the 8 games now and look all of them as being parts of a whole puzzle. Of a whole big screen.
Seeing Kratos Journey for all of these games evolving from a tortured chaotic soul to become one of the greatest manly role models on current game history is just amazing.
People grow as the years pass, so does the perception of the things from many of us.
So i respect his opinion bur i hardly disagree, Kratos can't keep being the same angry guy forever.
I'm glad that these new games made him an even more awesome character overall 😊
I understand what he was saying about Kratos being soft and I completely understand but you got to understand that he is literally old and I'm not going to lie everything he did in God of War was somewhat justifiable but not all of it he killed some and others that weren't even deserving all in the path of vengeance honestly if you think about it it was not Kratos fault the gods play with him and pretty much create a monster like the prophecy foretold but seeing him now in God of War he realized that everything he did was in vengeance pretty much destroying grease and Olympus and pretty much everything there but at what cost? Now he can make a new because he has a son and a wife he's pretty much learned from his past experience and has pretty much grown for my character
The "creator" is just hurt he isn't the creator, anymore. Move on, grow up
The people that don’t like Kratos like this are usually also the people that say men can’t or shouldn’t cry as it shows weakness, they can’t show any vulnerability or emotion as it’s not what a man should be. They don’t like that Kratos has grown past killing for the sake of killing or suppressing his emotions and his feelings to the world. They hate that Kratos has a heart now.
Once kratos was pure rage
Something that eventually fades
I would say adding softness ads wisdoms which allows for one to succeed
Otherwise kratos would have been super boring by four
I love the more stoic kratos than the past autism boner for vengeance (I can make that joke btw don’t worry)
He is soft but Kratos Now knows what true warrior means
They just do *NOT* want this man to experience the joys of fatherhood. Damn, let the old man be! He earned his rest dammit!
People don't seem to understand that Kratos is hundreds of years old. And with the human experiences and emotions, that amount of time would bring him more clarity and wisdom to his mind. He isn't the embodiment of war as Ares was, he is a man that was filled with anger and hatred and took that mantle, but only after some time to grow and experience new things does Kratos realize he is not like Ares. Wisdom makes one see their faults and their negativities, because wisdom is attained after experiencing a variety of emotions, mostly love, happiness and anger. After having a 2nd chance of love/happiness with Faye, his mind started getting glimpses of wisdom, and meeting more people with difference experiences like mimir, brok, sindri, freya, etc. his mindset changed. He softened in a way that he isn't a murder-hobo, he is level-headed and peaceful now, but he is still a man of fury and power. He just doesn't show it 24/7 like he did in GOW 1-3
The original trilogy was the story of a man who lost everything due to a faustian pact with an evil god and then was betrayed by those who helped him and got his revenge. Of course the story goes much deeper than that with Zeus being corrupted by the evils of Pandora's Box, but the point is that the og trilogy was about vengeance. Kratos was a destroyer back then.
The new series is about letting go of that anger and change for the better. Kratos says it at the end of his fight with Thor, another deatroyer: We need to change for our children.
David Gaffe’s rant reeks of “Back in my day!”
Owning up to your questionable decisions in the past and well doing better in the future isn't really being soft and besides Kratos can still stay the stoic Battle hardened spartan that we know. I mean yeah he's not super angry all the time and cruel and just killing anyone in his way(Icarus and other examples I could have).
Hey VGS ! Thanks for the insight! I unfortunatly never played any of the GOW games, but have seen cutscenes of about all of them, just to understand the universe.
I just wanted to point out how people seem divided on the question and how there seem to be a real conflict between the fandom. It kinda reminds me of what the Assassin's creed community is doing.
It feels like there is litterally a war between the fans.
Awesome gameplay 😊
You started good but you got something very wrong: Kratos was NEVER one-dimensional. The reason he was angry is because of the mistakes he made and because the Olympians would NOT give him release from his trauma.
Kratos is based on the Greek Tragedy concept.
This is what makes the New GOW games work. He learned from the horrors he committed and is doing what he can to be a BETTER person.
Idk what Jaffe said so I'm going to continue watching and edit this comment if I need to.
Kratos still has moments where he gets angry and looses control of himself. such as how he killed Heimdall. Kratos hasn't gone soft, he just doesn't want to be the man he once was anymore.
Mimir: "THIS ISN'T WHO YOU WANT TO BE!"
*Heimdall reads Kratos's memories*
Heimdall: ... Monster...!
In GOW4, Kratos was teaching his son to keep his anger under control, fearing he'll make bad choices like he did. look at what everything Kratos had ever done led to at the end of GOW3. Greece was in ruins, thousands of people dying every minute, the oceans flooding the lands, the sun is gone, all of this to get back at Zeus. do you think Kratos wants that for his son? we see history beginning to repeat itself when Atreus started talking about triggering Ragnarok himself and killing Odin.
Kratos hasn't gone soft, he is just drowning in regret and is trying to do better. move on with his life. not just for his sake but also for his son.
Honestly... What is one supposed to do after they brutally destroyed their homeland, and not finding peace afterwards?
*_Old Kratos is a Veteran, with tragically earned wisdom and it shows deeply--it moves me to tears_* .
People should learn to know the difference between being soft and being humble.
We have seven games where Kratos terrorizes and murders the gods. Time for a huge overhaul and change in his character development. Idk why David Jaffe is so salty about this.
You asked to hear from someone who doesn’t like these new games and the creative direction it’s gone so I’ll share my perspective. Kratos was created to be a violent action hero in action games, not as a character that was expected to have this level of character growth and change. As an example, if I pick up a James Bond game or movie I know the things to expect: action, intrigue, beautiful woman, exotic locations, cool cars, etc. Would a character arc for James Bond be (technically) a good thing for the character and the story? Maybe yes. But it’s not why I (or others) consume James Bond things, I consume it for specific reasons. These new GOW games are not only mechanically different in gameplay, but the character himself, location, etc are ALL different. To put it another way, if you’re wanting to play the traditional GOW game that became popular and was successful this would not be the game despite still being (technically) a GOW game. Learning to be a good father, learning from your mistakes, soul searching, accepting of your past etc are all wonderful things, but when you add those things to a character who was never meant to have those things what is left? A different character. That is good for certain types of stories, but I do not think it’s good for others (James bond, GOW, Batman, etc.) It’s strange to wonder why people who liked a character for the reasons they were created and don’t like that same character cause they are completely different seems odd to me. A Batman story where he has so much character growth that he starts to act and behave like Superman would be good for his character but bad as a Batman story or as a fan of Batman.
GoW really proved that it CAN be a good direction for the overall media instead of just the character, and the fact that many people who appreciated Kratos' growth could personally make call backs to his past through tiny references shows that a lot who appreciated his change were also part of his audience back then instead of being completely new set of demographics who just got in. So no, it's not necessarily a bad move for the "fans", and honestly, Greek Era games didn't exactly end on a high note either, the fatigue was really showing with Ghost of Sparta and Ascension.
@@hansalanson3497 these new games were a success but they were also entirely differnt than the old games in almost every way. My point is ppl should understand why a large group of fans would be upset about the drastic changes. Where you’re right is there was fatigue with the franchise but not because of the “Greek” era, it was because the mechanics and the game (in general) needed some changes. That didn’t necessarily mean doing everything the did tho. And now we’re in a situation where the story felt like it was going to end but didn’t so where do you take the character of Kratos now as “The God of Hope” They wrote themselves into a proverbial wall
Look, David was a part of GOW 1, which I like, but im of the mindset that Kratos was always a conplex character, even in Greece. But I feel like that all started with Gow 2, not 1, which is the only one Jaffy is a part of. But look, do I think norse kratos adaption of emotion is amazing. No. Do i think its bad. No. But calling him soft when the whole point was not to make him soft but just give meaning to why he did and does these now as well as toning down the violence when not needed. Because you bet your ass that I could even make the argument that calm and colle ted Kratos is Scarier than Young Kratos 😂
If being aware of and accepting your past actions and trying to move forward with yourself FOR yourself and the people closest to you while also being followed and tormented by the ghosts of your past head-on is softer character building than being a relentless killing machine driven by anger and revenge
then you can pull my ears and f*ck my butt because that’s some goofy ahh ahh shiii
Chiming in with my own to cent on characters changing in a sequel with new writers.
I'm not a fan of how Luke was written in The Last Jedi. I feel it was a complete betrayal of his character and the journey he undertook. The moment I feel truly shows that the Rian Johnson didn't understand this character is when Luke contemplates killing his nephew in his sleep. Luke Skywalker, who risked everything because he felt he could save his father, the second in command of the Galactic Empire aka space Nazis seriously considered killing his own nephew because he had fallen to the Dark Side.
This gives the impression that Luke learned nothing from his arc in the Original Trilogy making that entire story fell pointless.
By contrast the Norse Saga feels like a continuation of the Greek Saga with Kratos realizing that he made mistakes and is trying to do better because he has a son and doesn't want him to make the same mistake he did. This works because it is continuing the story and building something new on the foundation of what came before.
I get why the creator of the series is annoyed, because to him this isn't the character he created but for me this feels like Kratos after his journey over the course of 5 games. It works because the writers did something with the tragedy that came before and delved into it.
I personally think the father son dynamic has been done to death.
Are we really in the era when being a mature and caring person is considered weak and soft?
Sadly yes we are.