I know you're just getting your wage under capitalism, but the concept of an individual "carbon footprint" is actually corporatist propaganda meant to shift the focus (and blame) away from capitalists (even within the imperial core) onto working people who are just consuming within exploitative systems produced by those capitalists. I understand there aren't too many sponsors who will fund your content...but I don't think "micro carbon lending" is the look.
I tink jason statham is even, in one movie he onjectifies himself homoerotic, and duno about crank and crank 2, there has to be desconstruction of masculinity in there how selfdestructive he is. And he is not that great prrfect guy but mor vunerable like the bruce willis often. I ut think be is based and surprising honest about toxic masculinity in a way. While being fun.
Can't be a coincidence that the penis combines all functions into one device. Very manly. Of course this means that all beings with a cloaca are even *more* masculine. It pisses! It shits! It fucks! 3-in-1 all purpose orifice! (spoken in a growly voice with a distorted guitar in the background)
When I was in middle school and an unpopular fat kid, a group of youths surrounded me and said "Phil, we want to see something. Look at your fingernails and then look on the bottom of your shoe." So I turned my palm towards me and curled my fingers down to look at my nails, then I faced the bottom of my shoe backwards and looked over my shoulder at it." They turned to each other and said "Well, he's bisexual." And I was like huh? And they said that real men looked at their fingernails the way I did (instead of palm away, fingers straight up) but that real men checked the bottom of their shoe by pulling their leg up in front of them, and that only women checked their shoe by looking back over their shoulder. And I was like... how was I supposed to know there were rules about this stuff? Turns out I AM bisexual, so lucky guess I guess.
This is groomer shit taught by cis hetero parents. I also had to deal with this in elementary. I looked at nails and feet like a "real man" but I'm very girly in my voice and mannerisms. The girls just called me gay anyway Bc it's all bullshit at the end of the day lol
Holy hell. I had almost the exact same experience. I looked at my fingernails "the gay way" but looked at my feet "the normal way". Ever since then, for DECADES now, I will check my nails and flash back to this particular moment, and feel weird about everything.
I'm a trans woman: gender euphoria is the feeling of elation when the internal gender experience and external gender presentation aligns in your brain. I don't see how cis-ness is a disqualification of this experience. Your gender euphoria is completely valid and awesome!
That prison concept is also really well described by the panopticon which is a concept from Michel Foucalt. Where you constantly feel a sense of being in the prison to the point where you police your own behavior
To be precise, the panopticon is a concept invented by Jeremy Bentham, unironically as a prison concept though. Foucault later used it as a metaphor to describe the prison of the mind
@@xxnoobslayeriv That's some wild binary thinking you got there. Having some useful or relevant philosophical insights = God. Full stop. No questioning anything. Do you do that with people you agree with? Do you?
@@nunyabidnis3815 For how seriously progressives take allegations, and for how much other historical figures useful insights get swept away given their transgressions - I find it weird how often Foucalt is cited. I hear progressives bash the constitution, which was hugely progressive at the time, due to slave holding founding fathers. I would extend that same treatment to Foucalt's wishy wash. He was horrific, the accusations against him or cartoonish evil. On a similar note Marx's total racism is never mentioned either.
As a transguy myself, I would say you knocked it out of the park. Trans people can fall victim to gender essentialism too, like I got told once that being vegetarian wasn't very masculine. My ex was also very much like that-- and anything I did that she deemed as not masculine she would deride me for.
@@eemoogee160 Try on dresses in a mall with friends then. wear one out of the store. The only reason not to is to conform to gender norms. It'd be cool if guys could just do that without being judged but gender roles do be sucking. Push the envelope! status quo be damned!
I once got teased for eating "bunny food"... it was just a salad with salmon in it. Like wtf, eating good food is apparently weird somehow. Some gender stereotypes are completely insane. Also, bunnies are cute and that makes me want to eat more bunny food now.
and you may find yourself living in a shotgun shack, and you may find yourself in another part of the world, and you may find yourself in situations where its not physically safe to play with gender in the way that you might like And you may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife and you may ask yourself "is there a satisfactory way to outline the ontology of women without inventing a new language?" same as it ever was.
I’m really late to this party, but I’d like to add a word of caution: therapy is important, and it’s a huge step, but it’s only the first step. The number of dudes I’ve known who started therapy, couldn’t find a way to discuss their deeper problems with their therapist, end up feeling hopeless and then die by suicide is too high. Therapy is good, but it’s work, and you’re going to have to learn to talk about the hard stuff. I believe in you. You can do it. Stay safe, you lovely boys and men.
Coming to understand gender theory better as a masculine male helped me to understand part of why I understand professional wrestling so much: Because I get gender euphoria from watching different varieties of powerful, masculine men be flamboyant about their power and masculinity in different ways, including ways that are typically coded as being queer, rather than macho. In wrestling, feathered boas, sequins, colours like pink and purple and wearing makeup are not just a part of maleness, but they can accentuate how huge and mighty (or agile and technical) you are; it takes the identity of this gender and its performance and makes it a *really cool* action figure, and it's one of the big parts of it that I'm here for.
I’m using this when I try to explain to my father what demographic those huge, oiled up, buff dudes are meant to appeal to. He doesn’t seem to notice that they don’t feature in movies targeted towards women. One of my favorite movies is 300 and he likes to point out the dudes to me with a wink and a nudge and I’m like “Those men aren’t there for me. Those men are there for you.” I like the movie because it is funny taken with historical context, the core idea of the triumph or reason over superstition is awesome, and the scene at the end where Leonidas throws the spear and makes the God King bleed is epic.
That's a really interesting point! I feel like something similar may be part of why superheroes (which I think fill a similar niche to pro wrestlers in a lot of ways--for one thing, comic discussion would go a lot more smoothly if comicbros understood the concept of "jobbing") are so popular. People are going around in colorful outfits with capes and emblems and such, men are allowed to cry because their situations are high-stakes enough that it's "justified" (no one's gonna get on Hal Jordan's ass for crying when his entire hometown was just utterly destroyed by space aliens along with everyone in it)... I read an essay once positing that part of the reason weird dudes love the Joker so much might be his gender non-conformity (wears makeup, is very theatrical, his obsession with Batman is sometimes portrayed with romantic or sexual undertones)--like, in their minds, it ties in with the whole "breaking all of society's rules" shtick he has (especially in stuff like The Dark Knight, which is most of these kinds of guys' favorite version). But the essay's point was that there's a layer of plausible deniability behind it. If the Joker actually outright said he wants to fuck Batman, these guys wouldn't like him anymore because "ewww i'm not GAY". When he blows up a hospital while wearing a nurse's uniform, they can focus on blowing up the hospital and rationalize the outfit with "well he's CRAZY haha"
Only watched like once, not big where I am, but my first thought when I did see it was "Oh! It's like ballet for bros!" I dont see calling it fake an insult, the choreography is really impressive
@@beccangavinmy dad didn't understand why I thought Top Gun was really gay when I watched it with him lol I was like, Maverick and Ice Man have way more chemistry than whatsername!
I keep coming back to the concept of women having a marked gender. It's very interesting. There are masculine gender signifiers, but simply not having those (a suit, a beard, whatever) is not enough to mark one as unmanly. The only things that mark you as unmanly are associated with the feminine. There are many ways to be a man and manly, but very few ways of being are considered feminine. It's highly culturally specific. Refusing to wear dresses is seen us unfeminine, in a way that refusing to wear a suit or a beard is not seen as unmasculine. There is, I think, one other thing that is seen as unmanly, and that is a lack of projected power. Weakness, meekness and passivity are also unmanly. But it is no coincidence that these are also seen as feminine traits.
To be honest, I dont buy this example. Pants used to be something women didn't wear. I think the reason we dont consider this is mainly because feminism has made pants neutral ground and we consider pants the default
@@digaddog6099 In the clothing department the tables have definitely turned compared to this video. men have way less options overall. I agree with parts of the general consensus of the video but there a lot of "it used to be like..." in that section. Feminism has broken a lot of that crap down.
I'm Scottish, yeah we use the same bathroom signs. Kilts are formal as fuck, people don't just kick about in them, we wear them to weddings and big events. I wish we did kick about in them, they are comfortable, but if you do everyone thinks you have big plans that day. Although the way you describe wearing a suit is how a lot of Scots I know feel about wearing a Kilt. When I wear one I start feeling an overwhelming urge to yell at other men in kilts "There can be only one!" in a French accent while wielding a claymore. I do own a Claymore, so this might be an achievable goal for me if it wasn't both illegal and a bit weird.
My partner wears a kilt everyday here in the US. When he goes outside, I hope that he inspires men to start wearing kilts! They look fantastic and I think kilts exude masculinity! Also its a way for my husband to connect with his Scottish roots. So kilts are a win all around!
@@cheffyluv I agree, I hope he inspires more people as well. One of the odd things I find is when people come from another country and go to a wedding here they are often hesitant to get a Kilt. Sometimes it is based on the idea they would be jumping into a culture that isn't thiers (in general the opposite is true, we appereiate the effort if you join in) but the rest of the time it feels like they are turning their nose up because they think of it as a skirt.
@@finntownsley5144 Some would definitely be put off because they think of it as a skirt, which is silly of course! A piece of fabric can't change your gender, lol, also it's already been marked as a masculine item of clothing so 🤷. The mental gymnastics are astonishing. You should crash a bunch of weddings so you'll have more occasions to wear your kilt!
Yeah as an AFAB person I would hear cis guys talking about this kind of stuff and wondered why I related to it so hard and why the ~feminine~ equivalent made me feel so icky. took me until like last year to figure out I was nb (masc) lmao. I related to a lot of what he said about toxic masculinity too
The section about wanting to cry but bring physically unable really resonated with me. Recently I started trying to make myself cry and ended up just watching stuff that made me really depressed. So I decided to watch some feel-good sitcoms that would give me a much more positive outlook on life, and I chose The Good Place. It worked at first, and I was really enjoying it, but the last season struck me with such existential horror that I was hesitant to watch the last few episodes. After watching the finale I went into my bathroom and sobbed my eyes out, declaring that I didn't want to stop existing. Ever since then I've been able to produce tears at the smallest of things, like how they WENT TO FUCKING SPACE IN A ROCKET CAR in F9 and hit the nitro IN SPACE to destroy a satellite. This feels so much better than bottling up my emotions and I'm already wet (facially) thinking about Vin Diesel catching a rocket with his bare hands in the next one
awe wonderful! same thing happened to me when i was like 12. didn't cry rly at all before that. then i was like.. this is boring, i wanna cry at books. so i slowly trained myself to cry at books. then i couldn't stop crying and ever since i cry very easily 🤣
Thats why judges can wear wigs, and it was origially deproved from mens horseshues. And be honest, isnt it very manly to be confident enough to just don a dress and wig , Alo togas, all the formal dress, kilts, kilt were originally only for men , And the astolpho meme, the funny is he is historical really, pink was a boys colour, and that was after boy mede fashion at that french time.
not done with the video yet but i do find it funny when in these toxic masculinity videos there's such a stark divide between men being raised emotionally neglected but women are all free to express feelings because that's not my experience at all. i get i'm not a standard for all girls here but i wasn't raised to ~be emotional~ or whatever and only ever got annoyance when i happened to cry so this broad argument that oh women get to be so emotional unlike men does annoy me to some extent. not to slam this whole argument but just a POV i guess. Also specifically with regards to being 'allowed' to cry, women are seen as overly emotional anyway so expressing those emotions, while not taboo like it is for men, is still reprimanded for being hysterical or overreacting. Like what are you, on your period? So framing it like women are "free" to be emotional is kind of annoying from that perspective as well like there's more nuance to this. idk
Yes exactly. Women arent "allowed" to be emotional any more than men are "allowed". As in, both men and women CAN show emotion but both will be seen as weak and pathetic by showing emotion. The only difference is that women are EXPECTED to be "weak and pathetic", people believe that women are naturally weaker and less than men, so when a woman cries or shows emotion they just think "typical". But when a man cries, people are surprised, because they expect men to be "better" than women. So, like you said, the idea that women are allowed to show emotions without repercussion is not true. We are still looked down upon for expressing ourselves
I thoroughly enjoyed this video, but that’s one thing that really annoyed me so I came here to comment lol :p. I think both of the comments here are spot on. Just here to give two thumbs up! 👍🏾👍🏾
This is exactly how I (a pretty 'un-masculine' cis man) have always viewed the difference in treatment I get (from my male friends) when showing emotion compared to my female friends, I just didn't know how to put it into words before. I get seen as 'weak' and 'effeminate', while they get seen as 'unstable' and 'illogical' - but either way showing emotion is seen as a bad thing. Meanwhile my female friends see me crying as 'good for him - he clearly has a healthy relationship with his emotions' - which shows the inherent misogyny and patriarchal gender norms behind it, as the women in my life are supportive of anyone outwardly showing emotion while the men see emotional women as 'hysterical' and emotional men as 'hysterical and therefore girly'. So thanks so much for giving me the means to express my feelings on the issue
You're right that when women cry it's viewed as weakness. Being able to have these big displays of non-anger emotion is less of a freedom and more of an expectation, and since it _is_ still seen as inherently feminine, of course it's also viewed as a negative thanks to misogyny. (There's also a point to be made here about how, for many women, crying is _also_ what happens when they get angry, so this whole thing of writing women off as over-emotional when they cry is a way of dismissing their very real and justified anger as well.) But on the other hand, women _do_ have much more freedom when it comes to expressing emotional or physical intimacy with each other. It's not weird for female friends to hug each other, or say "I love you" in a completely platonic way. Guys hug sometimes but they're usually kinda weird about it, there's this whole ritual to it so that it doesn't come off as _too_ intimate, and if you say "I love you" to a guy friend it _absolutely_ must be followed by "dude" or "man" to soften the sincerity of it, because, actual sincere emotional intimacy between men? What are you, gay? And of course to some extent even that is looked down on as "women be emotional", but even so there's still a very real mental health benefit to it that men have shut themselves off from.
I see this point if it's an unconventional context for crying, but I don't really see how this would apply to crying during a movie or a funeral or something
Okay so I will admit that after a breakup I did once buy a set of katanas from an "oriental goods" store in a dying mall going through a liquidation sale.
I accidentally clicked on your profile icon, saw that you were a creator, watched one of your vids, and now I'm subbed! LOVED your video on Fukuyama's "The End of History?"
@@purple-flowers well, he's credited as one of the writers to this video, so I guess we are all somewhat primed to like his content xD (just finished here, so I didn't check it yet)
I really like the way sofie from mars put it in one of her old videos, society is set up to benefit men and make them powerful but being powerful doesn't necessarily make men happy.
I think Jude Ellison Doyle once called patriarchy a pyramid scheme, and I really like that. The majority of dudes aren't on top, and can't be on top, but they get sold the lie that they CAN be on top as long as they do their best to keep upholding patriarchy.
I typed this out multiple times, but it kept coming across as sarcastic, so just know that I'm being completely sincere when I say that as a trans person I absolutely LOVE hearing cis people talk about their own personal feelings of gender euphoria. We desperately need more discussions like this!
@@larsnyman2455 That shit seemed VERY "man" to me, in a good way. I'm stoked to find bros who get euphoria from my favorite karaoke-singing bare-knuckle brawling gangmembers.
Same!!!! I love it when cis people have a more intentional, enthusiastic relationship with their gender instead of just going along with it. I think EVERYONE should try gender questioning, I only see good results from it.
I relate to the physically unable to cry part, and how damaging that really is. Me and my wife went through a miscarriage, and I was completely unable to be where she was emotionally. Its like I would let out a little emotion, and then shut down. The tears had to be "surprised" out of me in the following years by stuff like a random little girl running up to me mistaking me for her dad, or an episode of bee and puppycat where baby bee is being adorably rambunctious. But not being able to be emotionally on the same page for my wife just made her feel more alone in the process, regardless of how much support I gave, the emotional connection was important.
@joelstephenson2743 Unfortunately not, I dont really know where to start :/ but at least know I can recognize when their is a need to cry underneath the surface. I won't be able to access it intentionally, but at least I know it's there and communicate with my partner about it. If someone has some better ideas I would love to know 🙃
Trans enby here, just want to say thank you for making this video! It's so rare for cis guys to engage with gender in this way so its really heartening to see that some men are actually open to having a discussion about it, this was a great "gender 101" for those people. Even though you don't talk directly about my community much I can say for sure that I'd feel safer and happier being out around a cis guy who has watched this than one who hasn't so its a big win in my book. Much love and best of luck with escaping the gender matrix from your side of the prison yard, I used to be there and realized it just wasn't for me.
This video Rules and is Good. Small anecdote, I’m a trans guy, and the crying thing made me realize how weird my own journey with masculinity has been. I remember coming out in high school in like 2012 or 2013, and it took me less than a year of being a high school boy to internalize toxic masculinity, lmao. I remember having this moment hanging out at a friend’s place and having an emotionally tough time and just bottling it up and having them tell me “you don’t have to be strong all the time” and it messed with me so much that I remember it roughly 10 years later. The Gender Matrix is powerful. What’s up with that! (Doing a lot better these days, therapy also rules and is good 😌)
i've seen a lot of my fellow trans men buy wholeheartedly into toxic masculinity in a misguided effort to """prove""" that they're _really_ men. it's really sad
"carbon footprint" is a concept introduced by the oil companies to make people think more about their personal responsibility than that off the people most majorly responsible: said oil companies.
Sure, but the leading companies responsible for atmospheric carbon are companies of energy, plastics, and refined materials, which are industries largely driven by consumption. Your consumption absolutely does matter and does have a huge impact on climate change. Just because reducing your carbon output isn't sufficient _by_ _its_ _self_, doesn't mean you shouldn't do it (preferably while you're also on your way to organize local political change in a sweeping movement that builds to greater and greater changes).
I like performance theory as a trans woman because I do perform gender. I enjoy performing gender. I’m a woman no matter what but the amount I perform my womanhood is entirely separate from that. I’m as much a woman when I wear makeup as when I don’t, but I love performing being a woman because it shows who I am to others and allows me to better express my self.
I transitioned to femme and was suprised by how easy it was to suddenly escape the prison of toxic masculinity. I feel like I cheated to get out. the internal self-policing dialogue no longer applied to me and I never had to think about it much more. But I didn't realize I was still subconsciously applying those unprocessed toxic masculine roles on people who were still men.
That's wild. As a transmasc I really felt the social freeze when I came out. Things got worse for me. And I still don't really get a break from misogyny, at least when people know I'm afab. But I do feel safer on the street.
@@Blurredborderlines its not required, but it just so happened to work out that way for op specifically would be my guess. you're probably trolling but i'll give an honest answer anyway
The last 3 times I cried, dog’s death in the last 6 months, to a girlfriend 5 years ago roughly due to talking about my emotions in the context of being walled up, and finally because I was doing bad in my sport many years ago. My dad yelled at me for hours (I’m an adult student athlete at a division 1 school on scholarship at that time) he said he would kick me off the team unlike my pussy coach and that I was embarrassment for crying. The girlfriend dumped me the next day. Dog’s death my fam was not as toxic but she was a really really great dog and everybody cried that day. Masculinity is often not just a prison in an abstract sense, but is enforced by people around us. Good vid. Very important for all people so many of these points you made. Also go to therapy, being diagnosed with ADHD has so substantially improved my wellbeing that words feel pithy for the change after treatment. If there is one thing I can recommend to other men, learn to find your emotional self and who you really are, the answers will only help you even if sometimes they are scarier or require outside help to deal with.
hi hello, friendly neighborhood trans here. gender euphoria is 100% a valid feeling in cis people! if you're gender is "man" and you do something that makes you feel "man" that's the feeling!
I think it was the first time I wore a dress to a party (cishet, btw), and I was immediately like A) hey this is actually really comfortable! and, B) wait, all of this is made up! Was incredibly freeing! Made me feel more comfortable as a man, and funnily enough, it actually made me more comfortable wearing shorts.
@@cmyk8964 It can be? If you get gender euphoria from manly things, then you are probably a man, even if you weren't dmab. Cis guys and trans guys both experience gender euphoria for manhood, so it is absolutely a valid self-determinant for trans people. Everyone wants to chase their bliss.
@@cmyk8964 It super is though. The trans vs cis part is the directionality. Cis men feel good connecting with maleness, trans women feel good connecting with femaleness. Same as dysphoria, which cis people also experience. The only thing they don't experience is gender incongruence, which is that directionality... noticing that the Genital Destiny isn't the same path as the Internal Destiny.
Was expecting a video like "Well being [gay/ace/trans] means [...]" and other potentially superficial stuff. Instead I was blown away by the quality of the discourse and the writing, as well as anything relating the video, drawing, editing, humour etc.. Learnt a ton and loved the philosophical aspect which I was DEFINITELY not expecting. And all easy to understand too??!! Absolutely top notch. Keep it up my dude.
this is excellent stuff, and i agree with most of the things here. i have a couple of comments that i feel like i should make as a trans dude of color. not criticisms, just additional info for stuff you touched on off-hand. before i do *a content warning for mentions of violent transmisogyny, suicide, and violent/fetishistic racism.* okay, lemme try to get this into words. a) ppl who are assigned male at birth who defy gender norms *are* often seen as more of a threat to patriarchy and gender essentialism... but that's bc those of us who were assigned female at birth are written off as silly or foolish. you mentioned high suicide rates among men, which is important, but a missing piece: trans masculine children have the highest suicide attempt rate of ALL groups of teenagers when accounting for gender differences. this is why trans feminine folks face higher rates of assault and murder, while trans masculine ppl have higher rates of self harm and suicide. they face hypervisibility; we face erasure. both are incredibly damaging, and something i think should be mentioned alongside discussions of gender relations and masculinity as a privilege. especially when we are often directly harmed by ppl wielding misogyny bc they don't consider us not-women. also consider the perceived threat of butch lesbians "stealing" feminine cis women (who are seen as innocent and foolish and corruptable) and the violence that that has historically incurred. the implication that cisgender butch lesbians are considered acceptable ignores a long history of oppression. afab ppl are expected to be sweet sexy innocent virgins for men to deflower or mother figures. the third "kind" of afab person is a sexually permiscuous "wh*re" and they can be used, cast aside, and scorned. (which is also why the "your mom" jokes tend to rankle ppl so much lol esp insecure men ANYWAY-) trans masc ppl, trans men, and gnc women - esp butch lesbians - are none of these, and therefore can be erased. OR need correction. you can imagine what the latter means for us. by assuming that afab folks who present in masculine ways are seen as less of a threat - and therefore under LESS threat ourselves - than those who are amab and more feminine, non-trans-masc folks serve to further the erasure we already face. the corrections imposed upon us are simply not as obvious to outside observers. b) the masculinity that is praised and lauded in white men is often a source of danger for men of color, even those who are cisgender and heteronormative. Black men in the us, for example, are treated markedly differently than white men for having stereotypically masculine presentation and behaviors, *even if those behaviors are nontoxic in nature.* Black men are seen as angry, aggressive, stupid, almost feral - explicitly for being masculine. on the flip side, they're often fetishized by white WOMEN for exactly those same traits. masculinity is NOT always a privilege, even aside from the harms ALL men face that you detailed here. when you allow for intersectionality, you have to acknowledge that not all men (haha) or masculine-presenting ppl are treated like their masculinity is a positive by the wider society. also apply that intersectionality to Black and Brown gnc lesbians, trans masc ppl, trans men... when changing the way you present to be more masculine bc that is more in-line with who you are and what is comfortable for you could make life even MORE dangerous for you than it already is, that's an added layer of danger, oppression, and pain to navigate that is DIRECTLY related to who you are as a masculine person/man. i know many of my fellow trans masc poc have delayed medical transition for explicitly this reason. it's an important part of this discussion that i feel like white folks should start factoring in. anyway, this is spot on, and i love your content! you mentioned a lot of this sorta off-hand and i just wanted to give some insight. i *certainly* don't expect you to cover all of this in one video!! just felt like a situation where my thoughts might be useful, and i've had my coffee today. (also hi from a twitter mutual i'm sorry this is so fucking long lmao)
@@aprilk141 i've considered trying my hand at youtube but i have no experience or equipment so i just comment novels on others' videos lol! but thank you
“Judith Butler _might_ be using the word in a way the dictionary doesn’t know about yet” is the most respectful way I’ve heard that phrased and also correct and also it’s the best
this was beautiful. i sometimes fret about my stepson falling down a manosphere hellhole, but he’s cried with his dad after every breakup i’ve been around for, and the last time he visited we talked nail polish and how much he loves his cats. He has way less gender baggage to work through than his father (we are all cis), and thinking what kind of man he is and will become gives me real hope. thanks for the reminder
Once, in one of the worst times of my life I went to therapy. When I explained to the therapist that I was struggling to cope; she told me to "man-up". I obviously never went back.
So I study this stuff (I have a BA in Feminist Studies and am getting an MA in Sexuality Studies right now) and I often struggle with youtube videos trying to talk about gender because they don't really approach it from the same theoretical background that I do (I do consider myself a post-structuralist, and appreciate that this video is grounded in queer theory, or at least Butler). Overall this video is awesome and I'm super impressed. I will say though that Chill Goblin artificially separated gender and sex, which is a useful tool for discussing gender with people new to queer theory. And I do agree that it can be helpful to say this half (gender) is about social relations and this half (sex) is about the body, but it's not actually 'biological'. Butler and others argue (and I agree) that 'sex' or 'biological sex' is also a socially constructed framework, like gender is. I'll explain this, but first let me clarify my terms. A person’s biological sex, or sex assigned at birth is an arbitrary judgement from a doctor or religious leader about a baby’s genitals, usually putting “male” or “female” on that baby’s birth certificate. When we say “sex” or “biological sex”, we often talk about it as if it’s one thing, but actually it’s a bunch of things. Sex can mean a person’s: Genitals, Secondary sex characteristics, which are the result of hormones in the body and impact a bunch of stuff like fat distribution such as on the breasts or thighs, hair growth on the face or body, how easy it is to develop muscles, voice pitch, and height, Reproductive capabilities- can you impregnate someone, can you be impregnated and carry a child, or Chromosomes. With all of these things, sex is not binary. For one thing there are intersex people, those who are not 'male' or 'female' but somewhere in between. And intersex is actually really common. 1/100 babies are intersex, 1/2000 have visibly ambiguous genitals. Look up Quigley and Prader scales if you wanna see a visual of this, they're systems of phenotypic grading that illustrate the genital spectrum and illustrate how human genitals can look a bunch of different ways. There are more intersex conditions than days in a year, so there’s a ton of different types of intersex and ways to be intersex, including chromosomal intersex conditions. For another thing, people who undergo medical transition can change various of these aspects. Not chromosomes, as TERFs will point out (although it's pretty irrelevant since chromosomes are invisible, most people don’t know their own because chromosome analysis or karyotyping isn’t done to everyone, and they were only discovered in 1882 anyway), but genitals and secondary sex characteristics can be altered, and there's cis people who are unable to reproduce and trans people who do reproduce so reproductive capability isn't that useful here either. Overall, biological sex in humans is complicated and it’s not binary. Chill Goblin basically made the talking point that “gender is a social construct but sex isn’t”, but the reality is that you can draw a line anywhere on a quigley scale and say male is on one side and female is on the other side, but where you draw the line for what counts as biologically female or biologically male is a choice and it’s a choice hugely influenced by societal and cultural beliefs about our social roles and capacities. Anyway, good video! I just wanted to add some more post-structuralist analysis of biological sex, since Chill Goblin sorta pushed it to the side. Oh and one more thing- Chill Goblin mentioned at the end that gender interacts with sexuality and that's one of his fav things about it and I just wanna say this is one of the points I come back to all the time- how can we preserve the aspects of gender that get people horny while getting rid of the aspects of gender that make people kill themselves and others? Is it even possible, or are the very things that are awful often also the things we eroticize?
Hey, thank you so much for taking the time to type all this out, 10/10 comment! Really interesting stuff... I'm pretty new to the idea that sex is a construct, just heard that argument for the first time in Gender Trouble a couple months ago where Butler makes the case that "sex will be shown to have been gender all along." I thought it was really convincing, but your comment made it click for me much better. I definitely have a long way to go on these topics so I appreciate the help :) Also damn do we just eroticize what's terrible? That's messed up...
@Mitthenstein I don't think OP is implying that we can't say anything about sex. What they're getting at is that human anatomy doesn't fall into neat, distinct categories like is commonly thought. And that the features we define as typical are affected by culture and aren't purely scientific.
@Mitthenstein Hey, you make good points here, and it seems we mostly do agree with each other. I'm certainly not trying to restrict gender to sex (if anything I'm arguing to do away with both gender and biological sex as ideas entirely). I just wanted to call attention to the ways cultural influences shape what we think of as 'biological', which you agree with. I don't think generalizations like "most people aren't intersex", or said another way, "most people can be classified as male or female" are bad, they're totally fine, and true. Just I do think it's worth realizing how much of this particular set of biological taxonomies have some pretty serious disadvantages and personally I think it's usually more helpful to talk about the specific relevant matter rather than say 'males' or 'females' (ie I'm way more of a fan of language like "people who can get pregnant" or "those who are at risk of developing testicular cancer" in medical settings than just saying male or female- it's more specific, inclusive, and puts aside all the messiness of the constructed male/female binary). In general, in my experience, people who are really invested in maintaining male and female as distinct and 'biological' categories are often so invested in maintaining those categories in order to provide justification for regressive politics. That doesn't appear to be you. I don't think science is objective and perfect, and certainly not when trying to explain cultural things like gender and I would argue biological sex. My view is let's use these categories, whether gender or sex terms, when helpful (like for sexy reasons, or when people feel empowered) and place them aside when they no longer help us explain things.
@Mitthenstein I think we're sort of on the same page here, but I disagree that we should stop talking about the idea of sex. Being uncritical about our preconceptions is distinctly unscientific and I don't see how keeping quiet about it furthers any movement, political or academic. Also, I'm not saying that sex classifications are totally arbitrary nor am I saying that sex and gender are the same thing, or that culture and biology are the same thing. Just that our concept of gender isn't separate from our concept of sex. Like, isn't it strange that we've lumped together so many bodily features into two categories? And that there isn't a consensus for precisely which features are sufficient to classify a person? I agree that it's important to make a distinction between our culture and our physical bodies, but what I'm getting at is that the way we currently think about our bodies _isn't_ separate from our culture.
Thanks for raising this. I'd also like to fill in from the scientific side why maintaining a sex "binary" is also bad for health research. (I actually wrote a review paper to urge other scientists to stop completely ignoring sex chromosomes and the chromosomal sex of human cell lines in medical (cancer) research! ) So often "sex" in medical studies is the same as the determination made at birth based on external characteristics, yet somehow it's just assumed to exactly match either XX or XY. Exceptions to XX & XY are not at all rare & don't always manifest physically (certainly not in some obviously distinguishing way, as noted), so those possibilities are underrepresented in studies, while the XX & XY categories are also misrepresented. This has consequences for understanding sex-linked genotypes and phenotypes on health & disease states. For example, many immune genes are X-linked, and to avoid double amounts of X-linked genes products, there is a phenomenon of silencing one of the Xs in organisms made up of cells with two X chromosomes. However this silencing can be uneven & incomplete. It is theorized that less complete silencing of a second X may contribute to a higher observed prevalence of autoimmune disease in "female" people compared to "male" people. But again, we don't actually know patients' karyotypes (fancy word for all the chromosomes a person has) based on physical features or hormone levels, so who's to say is that mechanism is at all right? We can't actually conclude from existing data whether autoimmune disease is higher in XX or maybe XXY individuals compared to XY or some other combination. We have to actually first find out if autoimmune disease is in fact correlated with having more than one X chromosome! On the other hand, if we completely exclude any role for X or Y chromosomes in a disease, we may miss something important that could have a meaningful impact for improving health outcomes. And of course, I didn't touch on the possible role of hormones in health and disease states which should also be investigated - independently from chromosomes, independently from external anatomical features one is born with. Just to really belabor the point, external anatomy, hormone levels, and chromosomes are generally correlated, but even a high odds ratio of guessing correctly in a *general* population does not mean you'll actually correctly classify an individual in all those dimensions using just one or even two of them to "infer" the others. And this misclassification is all the more likely to bias study results in a smaller pool of people affected by a particular illness. As I hope I've made clear, this lazy short hand of using external features (or even something like hormone levels) to guess at someone's chromosomes really is bad for science. This is similarly true with the use of race to assume similar genotype groupings - I highly recommend Dorothy Parker's book Fatal Invention for an in-depth look at that.
omg there is so much in this video to unpack. I'm watching this as a trans woman and I am just amazed at the high level of gender philosophy you are chewing thru like the cool teacher who gets the kids. so far everything you have said about transness has been spot on. I also absolutely believe cis people can experience gender euphoria. I don't think its stolen valor, gender euphoria is just a thing. This is by far the greatest lecture on gender I have ever seen. Kudos to you Mr Goblin.
I'm at the Simon De Bovoire section, the talk about gender signifiers reminds me of the sonic the comic podcast, they have a running joke about how kids kept sending in pictures that were "sonic character, but a girl" and they eventually broke down what kids thought made you a girl. The "symptoms of womanhood" as they called them were: lipstick, the colour pink, eyelashes and a bow. One kid sent in a girl version of Dr. Robotnik and didn't remove the mustache. I think it's kind of interesting how nieve the understanding of gender was but also in a way it's closer than a lot of adults get these days.
This video is one for the books. Thank you for shouting out The tumblr post and the fact that trans men's experiences are actually valuable as FUQ to understanding the layers of the masculine experience under this nightmare gender matrix. Relevently, I, a Trans Masculine Individual, have finally obtained a binder that fits today, so this video paired with some dank served as a great celebration for this occasion🤙
@@ChillGoblin also calling it the gender matrix is awesome - a good way to think about it without scarring dudes off. also it kinda goes in the direction of stopping the blame game of genders, and just focuses on the fact that it would be nice to be free to just be us whatever that means. Also congrats eel
Honestly I'll go out on a limb and say trans men/transmasc ppl understand masculinity way better than cis dudes. I've been living like a dude my whole life and recently I had to ask myself "fuck does that even mean?" I have no idea, most cis men don't. Choosing to go through the process of socially and/or medically transitioning to a more masculine expression of gender will inevitably lead to a better understanding of what it is to be a man than is typical for people who never had to ask the question. Transbois are super important and often unfortunately forgotten about.
Even gender dysphoria isn't entirely unique to trans/nonbinary people, so absolutely gender euphoria can be felt by those who aren't trans/nonbinary. It's way more common ofc, but we aren't the only people affected by gendered expectations.
There's arguments that can be made regarding the bodybuilding and gym culture as being an expression of dysphoria from not being their internalized ideal of a masculine image. "I need to be bigger" and the like.
@@SeRoAnthem Yeah I'm trans and definitely equate dysphoria to gym culture, at least on the more extreme ends of the culture. There could be instances of body dysmorphic disorder in that culture as well, a bit of overlap. Dysphoria and dysmorphic disorder are different though, as are the treatments. Can't express that enough. I just mean that the bodybuilding/gym community tend to have overlap with those of those things. Dysphoria is a symptom of anxiety/highstress brought about by gender incongruence is treated through, generally speaking, reaching as close to your ideal as you safely and reasonably can. Dysmophic disorder is a mental health condition which causes a hyperfixation of perceived flaws in the body that can never be fixed through changing the form so instead must be dealt with neurologically.
Reading from Skaldish helped me understand one of the ways I was perceived differently growing up. I've often been told that girls feel more comfortable being themselves around me. I was invited on a girls vacation trip and told it was because I was safe. My now wife told me I was the first guy she ever connected with. What a surprise for both of us when I found out I am a woman and she's a lesbian! In some ways I'm thankful my parents are passive aggressive, they'd never directly condemn the ways I didn't line up with being a man (to a certain degree)
I feel like a lot of non-dudes don't understand that it's not just social mores. It's legitimately difficult to physically cry. My dog from childhood died and I felt truly awful about it for weeks until I finally was capable of crying about it. And I wanted to really bad, too.
@@paisleepunk I Never was much into this real man, strong man bullshit, nor my family enforce that, even so, I almost never cry, maybe men do Express themselves in ways different to women's, why should men behave like women do in order to be behaving right or "healthy", I dont want to be crying all the time, I dont need to, and I even naturally cant.
I have a memory of being in early elementary School and seeing my mom and sister paint their nails and wanting to share in that. I asked for a boy color so they painted my nails black. The bus ride to school was so bad I ended up scratching the paint off before getting to school. That is a remarkably strong reaction that I had, but it was a reaction to being bullied Now in my twenties I'll wear nail polish all the time, and it hasn't been black nail polish for a while
"pissing/fucking multi-tool" I'm adopting this term for my crotch. Thank you. As a trans-masc genderfluid human, I identify strongly with a lot of a the things you said here. Even when I was actually a young person, many many moons ago. A year has not undermined the relative points you've made.
There's a Romanian expression that comes from a famous play of ours: 'Zoe, be Manly' (approximate translation, it actually uses the word for man, 'bărbat' and feminizes it by adding the particle that gives words their feminine version, „ă”). So this is basically told to women like when they are 'weak', or something and I cannot say how much I hate it. It kinda means, be brave, be composed, be clear-headed. My mother used to tell me that whenever I was in distress. Also, I never got around to reading De Beauvoir, but there was a Romanian sexist comedy film about a beauty pageant that had its contestants pass through a metal outline of an hourglass shaped woman and I always used to describe my gender as the tension between that shape and who I actually am. Great video!
ALSO ALSO, THANK YOU for talking about the Jordan Peterson crying thing. I get that people are big on schadenfreude, and JP is a horrible human being, but people who are feminist making fun of him for crying seems like such a hypocritical thing to do.
this rules, youtube needs more content like this for sure. also hell yeah to m'boi Noah getting a lot of cross-channel action these days, you love to see it! or hear it, i guess.
Something I think is so interesting about being a trans guy that I thought of during the Simone de Beauvoir section is that it is a lot harder to name what specific gender markers for men than it is for women and I think it’s partly because women are often allowed to participate in male gender markers but they make them feminine. So you have to identify what they’re doing to make “men’s things” feminine and take those away to figure out what they are. Anything can be for anyone, but I have noticed certain very small markers like cut and shape will change how you’re perceived.
Biological sex is also way more complicated than most of us learned in grade school. There's a really fascinating series about it through radiolab called Gonads. I highly recommend it. It gets into how there are many more possible chromosome combinations than XX and XY. And that many times a person's genitals don't match their chromosomes at all, and ultimately, biologists don't yet know for sure what determines a person's sex.
I think I am gonna double down on gender is a performance. I just feel like being trans has an added layer of physicality with that performance. Denying that your body can harm you is such a dangerous thing, that's kinda already being weirdly erased like it's not reality when it clearly is by trying to erase disabled people. I find that is the same kind of premise (of many) to deny trans existence too. And I think it makes sense that even simple things like clothes can enhance or diminish pain, physical or mental, I just think usually abled cis het people just feel the mental pain, I mean that stereotypical woman not finding anything to wear moment I think has an underlying mental distress. like just today I felt my closet was so plain after loving it for so long and I think it was because I'd been unable to just "dress up" for so long and I was getting pretty anxious about starting my day (until I found something cute and oh girl!) Then being chronically ill as I am really affected my clothes choice too, there is a physicality to it too. The way my clothes feels on me can hurt or help physically, I don't think it's a stretch for trans people to feel that too.
That cut out opportunity cartoon is so cool and relatable! As a guy I often feel like I'm bumping my shoulders on things, tripping on an obstruction, etc when trying to be myself and finding that some of that in gender non conforming. Hearing women's experiences, it's a lot more like they consciously try to squeeze through the gaps to move forward. Such a visual example.
I connected so hard with the toxic masculinty section, I'm now looking into getting theropy to help work through these issues with surpressed emotions. Thank you so much!
Fuck yeah! And don't be afraid to shop around! They're there to help you, not to dictate to you! Some people sort of default to a child/teacher relationship and are afraid to contradict or leave a therapist, but feel free! The WANT feedback! And if you leave they can give recommendations for who to try next!
58:27 I have a Frequently Unanswered Question that just popped into mind about gender being performative (how you walk, sit, posture, etc.): In your readings, have you seen anyone talk about how gender intersects with (visible) disability or neurodiverse folks? What I've observed is disabled and ND folks being infantilized, treated as genderless, or treated as a weak and distasteful version of girl, whatever their age, sex or gender.
There's a video of Judith Butler hanging out with a disabled woman where they discuss this idea a bit, search up "Judith Butler Sunaura Taylor". I'm sure it's a concept discussed at length elsewhere but I think that's the only place I've seen!
@@ChillGoblin Thank you! (IDK why RUclips just now let me know you replied, lol.) Found it! Some rough notes for those interested: Sunaura Taylor uses the phrase "going for a walk" when she uses her wheelchair along the streets of San Francisco. Whereas I thought it inaccessible, she says it's one of the most accessible cities in the world, with curb cutouts, accessible public transportation, etc. 2:15 "Physical access leads to a social access and acceptance." - Sunaura Taylor Buying a sweater. 8:00 Sunaura requests bills and change separate. "Yeah, I just can't hold both at the same time." 8:20 "I think gender and disability converge in a whole lot of different ways. But one thing I think both movements do us get us to rethink what the body can do." - Judith Butler 10:10 a guy in Maine killed by 3 classmates for walking with swishy hips. "A walk can be a dangerous thing." 11:06 Judith Butler As a child, Surauna was told she "Walk[s] like a monkey . . . Where our boundaries are as a human, and what becomes non-human." 12:11 "when between male and female, and death and health: when do you still count as a human?" 12:50 Surauna Taylor Rethinking the human as a site of interdependency . . . "Do we, or do we not, live in a world where we assist each other?" - Judith Butler It's a challenge to individualism when you ask for help with the coffee cup.
Dude, you're allowed gender euphoria! If I found one thing being openly trans on the internet is that most people don't think about their gender to such a point where they don't think it exists. This was a damn good watch.
Keep in mind that Simone de Beauvoir and Luce Irrigaray's work are in french, especially important in Irrigaray's case, since she deals with language so much . there's no direct equivalent to "it" in French, for example and objects are gendered .. "non gendered" languages are another different situation.. The work of the great Simone Weil is worth checking, too..
I was surprised he didn't mention that it was French at all ! French is even MORE gendered than Spanish, it's crazy. Even when talking about, for example, "my aunt." The "my" has to match the gender of the aunt ! That's not gendered AT ALL in Spanish, and it baffled me that the gender of the "my" referred to what I was speaking about and not myself ?
I guess this is a hidden benefit of being a disabled person: it was abundantly clear, from a very early age, that I was "the other" so hard notions of gender identity never really stuck. And perhaps for better (or worse), it didn't bother people when I did something divergent because they'd first have to acknowledge me to judge me, and they were too busy judging my gait from afar to notice the sundress or nail polish. Then again, I don't buy most gender constructions. I don't fundamentally belive that colors, clothes or hobbies carry a gender, for example, so a person do identifies as a woman is a woman whether she's wearing a dress or pants, she can wear a broad banded watch and she's still a woman, she can prefer green in her clothing and still be a woman. The flipside though is, I don't have a frame of reference to talk to people who observe or espouse hard gender roles. I don't see it as necessary or even useful, and I can't understand why they view it as useful. The easiest example is the pay gap, I've got no civility at all for gendering or gender valuing "work" it's both reductive and aggressively capitalist, and I just can't with those people
It's an interesting position to be othered and being on the outside of normal society analyzing the structure of things that the average people live inside. I think a lot of neurodivergent people (and those dealing with things that affect their social life) find it harder to relate to the average social/life experience and have to question things more actively in order to try to mask and navigate, leading to seeing the edges more often. And being othered makes it easier to reject the matrix.
I think there is an old Sophie from Mars video where she talks about men being the default and women being the other by looking at cartoons. A cartoon character is male by default, but slap a bow and some elongated eyelashes on it and it's a girl.
As a trans girl, I get the intense urge to cry, or an overwhelming wave if emotions that should deserve some tears, but still physically can't fucking do it. I buried that shit so hard that I sometimes feel like I completely lost my ability to cry, no matter how hard I try
As a trans woman, I like the perfomative idea of gender. But I just can’t get past the implications of HRT. I went from depressed to not depressed when I started hrt. So I can’t help but feel that there is a degree of biology to it.
I think of it like singing. Singing is biological. It's associated with oxytocin and child nurturing, the brain has a different way of listening to it and relating to it, compared to speech. A song, on the other hand, is not biology, it's culture, but if one is to sing, it is best to have a song.
@@laurelgardner that's a good way to say it. I see gender and it's performativity as somewhat biologically informed, that we have some inherent want to perform or be whatever gender. For some people it'll line up to their assigned gender at birth, for others it won't. Trans folk (like me) still fits in this framework with a small change.
Does less hair, less overwhelming libido, softer skin, growing breasts, more direct emotions, etc... count as biology ? If so, obviously there is a part of biology, we're changing our own biology to be closer to that of other women Biology was never this immutable nor inherent thing that gender conservatism ideologues try to claim it is.
about the crying, back when i transitioned there happened something pretty bad for me and it made me cry and at first i was like no i shouldnt cry since that is what i grew up learning. but i kinda kept crying and crying and crying. it was like i had to cry out all those tears i didnt cry before transition. it was such a great feeling and after i was done i didnt even care about the bad thing anymore, i just felt like something inside me finally started healing
I am a trans woman, I watched this video a few months before I realized I was trans and I remember thinking "hm yes this euphoria thing, I don't really enjoy any of the things he's listing but I do remember enjoying singing 'I Want it That Way' in the shower with the boys"... huh
@@RasmusVJS yeah I failed to make my point, what I meant to say is the way I stayed in denial was by saying enjoying time with "the boys" for once was gender euphoria
Another thing that phallogocentric language made me think of. If you're hanging out with friends, let's say you have a bug in a cup. You might want to take care of the bug and watch it and stuff, and you might name it. You might name him Fred, and call him he, and that would be fine, people would just call him he, even if you can't check the sex of the bug. But if you start out with "let's call her Val." You might get some responses anywhere from "Why is it a girl, we don't know it's a girl" to "Oh, she's a girl? Ok." Male is seen as the default, with women as an exception
I revel in correcting people when they call worker honeybees "he". You almost never see the drones unless you're a beekeeper. But does it make sense to choose gendered pronouns for a species with (at least I assume) no concept of gender? Whatever, I suspect they couldn't care less. Just more insect thoughts. :)
Except if it's a boat, car, TV etc. It's entirely arbitrary and in no way indicative of "male being the default" or whatever nonsense ideology you're pushing.
Is it just me, or does Goblin just straight up look like he plays guitar? And like, not even the way he dresses or anything. He's just got a guitarist's face and hair lol
that tumblr post rally got me thinking about my own social connections (as the most stereotyical white cis dude) because i recently moved cities and made a whole new friend group and i started noticing that i am making significantly deeper connections with women and queer people (who have that 'social armor') than most guys. And i think the reason for that is that i try to not lie about slight imperfections or embarrasing details about myself. I figure by showing vulnerability i'm coming off as less threatening to that social armor. And i dont think the opposite is true, guys might think they come off as weak but i think im percieved way more confident than i am and used to be. I guess im also super privileged that i can afford that kind of vulnerability becaus as the 'default person', you dont get put in boxes that might conflict with certain details as easily. Alroght im high and i dont know where im going with this, here's that thought of mine
This was such a fun video to listen to. I'm pretty familiar by this point in gender as performance theory, but hearing it as a dude meant for dudes makes this really approachable! Really appreciate you putting this together and committing to it so well. The mom jokes bit was exceptional!
As a trans guy I also have zero idea why we are trans instead of gender non conforming people. Heck, I'm a feminine trans guy so I'm pretty far from a nonconforming woman. We just are trans because we're trans and we are happier going along with that I guess!
Finally got a chance to sit down and watch this proper, what a fantastic and necessary video, so thrilled to have been able to contribute. 💙 Also, Bell Hooks' insights are incredible, some of her quotes straight up leave me feeling winded.
Something about this video makes me just a little bit more confident to walk into work today wearing make up or go out with friends in whatever I feel like. Thanks bro.
The power of gender norms really is incredible. Even in understanding that crying doesn't make you less of a man, I find myself bottling it up when I feel the urge to cry. I tell myself the classics like "stay strong" and "don't let others see you being weak" as if crying makes one weak. Great video
Yes, this is very weird to me, because growing up, although outwardly I looked feminine I too internalized the "crying = weakness". I know very well the feeling you get in your throat, almost pain, like a ball inflating. Later on I learned that I was being stupid and crying actually shows I am confident, and brave. Because "crying is embarassing so only those who are brave can do it." The logic isn't all there, but it really helped.
@@samdal420 Sometimes that shit gets to the point that it’s basically “Fellas, is it gay to be straight”. It’s hilarious to watch from the outside (Aro/ace)
The controversy about drag Queens in America is So funny to me as a brit. Like there is a lot wrong with pantomime Dames but it has that same parody of gender and my Catholic school showed them to me from age 3 to 18. Tho Ig now I'm trans so I guess I can't prove that's not what caused it.
I love his content already, but this is some of his best work yet. Profound and hilarious. Especially as a cis het dude it really forces you to do some introspection. It takes guys like him to do the reading and take the time to package up difficult topics like this in order to open minds and change society. Chill Goblin's following is criminally small! Right on, dude
Hey Chill Goblin, thank you for making this video. I’ve rewatched it so, so many times and have shared it with many of my male friends. I genuinely believe that this is one of the best introduction videos to gender theory I’ve ever seen. thank you for your high quality content. You’re an absolute fucking lad. Have a great day
This video was instrumental in me seeking out Bell Hooks and learning so much about why I am how I am. Thankyou man, I feel I’m a better person for stumbling across this on RUclips
Simone de Beauvoir talks on and on about menstruation and being the sex who carries the child in her discussion in the Second Sex. She talks about how the human female body differs from other species female bodies, and how that impacts the development of the concept of “woman”, and the treatment of “woman” in society. I thought she was very specifically talking about sex, and in a way not interchangeable with gender. I think the way you position her text still holds true to her overarching themes. You broke down these ideas so so well. But part of the power of The Second Sex *is* the biological framework she spends so long setting up. And she does it in a way that is still very queer! It’s biology, but not trans exclusionary.
31:52 this is the best analogy for anything that I've ever heard lmao When most leftist mock Jordan crying, at least I think it is not because he's crying per se but rather the that it is so bizarre and shocking that anyone would cry about what he cries so often, in other words, the fact that he cries about a bunch of bigoted nonsense and bullshit.
Yes, I agree. At least for me it is not that he is crying, it is that he is crying at some insane stuff that furthers insane thought. It's not even funny, it's just very bizarre.
To me, something seems really off about his crying, in a way that has nothing to do with gender. I'd feel the same if a woman was engaging in similar behaviour.
damn, i've been looking for this video for a long time. my transmasculine experience is a weird one, but nothing couldve prepared me for the difference between presenting femininely and masculinely. the tests men put each other through, not only peers but guardians and teachers, are so jarringly ugly and humiliating when you're not used to them... and i'm an angry crier. on the flip side, i can't even put my finger on what i loathe so much about being perceived as a woman, but jesus christ it's exhausting. heavy is the chest that wears the tits. thanks for this vid man
Jordy’s crocodile tear schtick absolutely works for his “high-minded centrist” grift. A friend of mine is into his shit despite having the right idea about most shit and it’s the first thing to come up every time I try to push back on that.
I'm trans and think it's cool as shit you love your gender and experience gender Euphoria even if youre cis. Like I think everyone should have fun with thier gender yknow
@@nullakjg767 he literally called himself cis while talking about gender euphoria and it’s very rarely used in a derogatory way. Get over yourself „snowflake“ Man do I feel cringe for calling you snowflake. How are the anti-sjw doing this?
Hey, I have that edition of Gender Trouble! A thing I think is important to mention is that later Butler has spoken much more about desire to be a gender as an important part of gender identity, something they didn't discuss as much in Gender Trouble. I think that makes a lot of sense given they were not out as nonbinary at the time; so of course they would focus more on the performative aspects of gender, if they didn't feel particularly tied to womanhood. For more of that I really recommend Butler's Undoing Gender!
I'm ~ 32 minutes into the video right now, and seriously, those Newfoundland brochures... they really make me wanna move back. Not even joking, you mentioning them made me tear up a little bit. Seriously though, this is a great video so far. I might actually be able to show it to some of my family members who haven't really grasped gender stuff yet. Thank you!!
Fantastic video! I'm a trans-femme person and the discussions of masculinity here are really relevant to the reasons I realized I'm not a man. Also, this video contains some of the funniest moments from any youtube essays I can remember. I definitely actually cried laughing when you talked about Gravity. 🤣🤣
Love how this video has a 2+ minute ad before it that's some old guy Hocking a "way to restore your testosterone" Way to go RUclips algorithm, you make the point before the thing even got started!
When I was in highschool, the boys in my grade created physical Man Cards. It was a card they carried in their wallets. And they revoked one guy's. Because he demonstrated love towards a girl.
Offset your carbon footprint on Wren: wren.co/start/chillgoblin The first 100 people who sign up will have 10 extra trees planted in their name!
Yo, Kyle Anderson's Channel link is actually just John the Duncan's a second time.
Lincoln Nebraska also has a biochar program :D
I just wanted to let you know about Jack Halberstam, who invented masculinity studies
I know you're just getting your wage under capitalism, but the concept of an individual "carbon footprint" is actually corporatist propaganda meant to shift the focus (and blame) away from capitalists (even within the imperial core) onto working people who are just consuming within exploitative systems produced by those capitalists. I understand there aren't too many sponsors who will fund your content...but I don't think "micro carbon lending" is the look.
I tink jason statham is even, in one movie he onjectifies himself homoerotic, and duno about crank and crank 2, there has to be desconstruction of masculinity in there how selfdestructive he is. And he is not that great prrfect guy but mor vunerable like the bruce willis often. I ut think be is based and surprising honest about toxic masculinity in a way. While being fun.
“Birth issued pissing fucking multitool” is a phrase I won’t forget any time soon
Can't be a coincidence that the penis combines all functions into one device. Very manly.
Of course this means that all beings with a cloaca are even *more* masculine. It pisses! It shits! It fucks! 3-in-1 all purpose orifice! (spoken in a growly voice with a distorted guitar in the background)
This will enter my daily vocabulary
When I was in middle school and an unpopular fat kid, a group of youths surrounded me and said "Phil, we want to see something. Look at your fingernails and then look on the bottom of your shoe." So I turned my palm towards me and curled my fingers down to look at my nails, then I faced the bottom of my shoe backwards and looked over my shoulder at it." They turned to each other and said "Well, he's bisexual." And I was like huh? And they said that real men looked at their fingernails the way I did (instead of palm away, fingers straight up) but that real men checked the bottom of their shoe by pulling their leg up in front of them, and that only women checked their shoe by looking back over their shoulder. And I was like... how was I supposed to know there were rules about this stuff?
Turns out I AM bisexual, so lucky guess I guess.
You're the most underrated video essayist on RUclips btw. I love your videos
This is groomer shit taught by cis hetero parents. I also had to deal with this in elementary. I looked at nails and feet like a "real man" but I'm very girly in my voice and mannerisms. The girls just called me gay anyway Bc it's all bullshit at the end of the day lol
I had kids do the “fingernail test” to me when I was a kid. They said the result meant I was a girl to tease me…but it turned out they were right lol
Guess that I, a cis woman, am the true manly man.
Holy hell. I had almost the exact same experience. I looked at my fingernails "the gay way" but looked at my feet "the normal way". Ever since then, for DECADES now, I will check my nails and flash back to this particular moment, and feel weird about everything.
I'm a trans woman: gender euphoria is the feeling of elation when the internal gender experience and external gender presentation aligns in your brain. I don't see how cis-ness is a disqualification of this experience. Your gender euphoria is completely valid and awesome!
Me after being beaten in a lightsaber duel by y’all : I’ll never join you, trans people!
@@Darth_Bateman Yes, YES
give in to your trans‐ness! >:3
Hahahahahahahahahahahahkkakakhahahahaha
@@anterrobang9298 Like you did to my sister?! Obi-Wan told me how you killed my sister!
Interesting, so only by engaging and promoting harmful gendered stereotypes, do you feel like "your gender"?
@@nullakjg767 elaborate please
That prison concept is also really well described by the panopticon which is a concept from Michel Foucalt. Where you constantly feel a sense of being in the prison to the point where you police your own behavior
To be precise, the panopticon is a concept invented by Jeremy Bentham, unironically as a prison concept though. Foucault later used it as a metaphor to describe the prison of the mind
@@anarchoshulginist7515 Beat me to it.
Foucalt did some questionable things to some Algerian kids, but yeah, he is god for you folks.
@@xxnoobslayeriv That's some wild binary thinking you got there.
Having some useful or relevant philosophical insights = God. Full stop. No questioning anything.
Do you do that with people you agree with? Do you?
@@nunyabidnis3815 For how seriously progressives take allegations, and for how much other historical figures useful insights get swept away given their transgressions - I find it weird how often Foucalt is cited.
I hear progressives bash the constitution, which was hugely progressive at the time, due to slave holding founding fathers. I would extend that same treatment to Foucalt's wishy wash. He was horrific, the accusations against him or cartoonish evil. On a similar note Marx's total racism is never mentioned either.
As a transguy myself, I would say you knocked it out of the park. Trans people can fall victim to gender essentialism too, like I got told once that being vegetarian wasn't very masculine. My ex was also very much like that-- and anything I did that she deemed as not masculine she would deride me for.
I'm cis male, and if I ever feel like I'm reacting a certain way due to gender norm expectations, I instantly cringe.
Being vegetarian isn't masculine. Real men are vegan.
Standing up for your principles is honorable and manly. She got it wrong
@@eemoogee160 Try on dresses in a mall with friends then. wear one out of the store. The only reason not to is to conform to gender norms. It'd be cool if guys could just do that without being judged but gender roles do be sucking. Push the envelope! status quo be damned!
I once got teased for eating "bunny food"... it was just a salad with salmon in it. Like wtf, eating good food is apparently weird somehow.
Some gender stereotypes are completely insane.
Also, bunnies are cute and that makes me want to eat more bunny food now.
and you may find yourself living in a shotgun shack,
and you may find yourself in another part of the world,
and you may find yourself in situations where its not physically safe to play with gender in the way that you might like
And you may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife
and you may ask yourself "is there a satisfactory way to outline the ontology of women without inventing a new language?"
same as it ever was.
F%^£ you, random person from a year ago. I'm going to have that bass line stuck in my head all night now.
This is my favorite youtube comment. Maybe ever.
And you may ask yourself, 'well, how did I get here'.
And the days go by...
@@LordMarcusWater flowing underground...
I’m really late to this party, but I’d like to add a word of caution: therapy is important, and it’s a huge step, but it’s only the first step. The number of dudes I’ve known who started therapy, couldn’t find a way to discuss their deeper problems with their therapist, end up feeling hopeless and then die by suicide is too high. Therapy is good, but it’s work, and you’re going to have to learn to talk about the hard stuff.
I believe in you. You can do it. Stay safe, you lovely boys and men.
Good point! I've found therapy very helpful personally, but I think I might have oversold it here lol
Coming to understand gender theory better as a masculine male helped me to understand part of why I understand professional wrestling so much: Because I get gender euphoria from watching different varieties of powerful, masculine men be flamboyant about their power and masculinity in different ways, including ways that are typically coded as being queer, rather than macho. In wrestling, feathered boas, sequins, colours like pink and purple and wearing makeup are not just a part of maleness, but they can accentuate how huge and mighty (or agile and technical) you are; it takes the identity of this gender and its performance and makes it a *really cool* action figure, and it's one of the big parts of it that I'm here for.
I’m using this when I try to explain to my father what demographic those huge, oiled up, buff dudes are meant to appeal to. He doesn’t seem to notice that they don’t feature in movies targeted towards women. One of my favorite movies is 300 and he likes to point out the dudes to me with a wink and a nudge and I’m like “Those men aren’t there for me. Those men are there for you.”
I like the movie because it is funny taken with historical context, the core idea of the triumph or reason over superstition is awesome, and the scene at the end where Leonidas throws the spear and makes the God King bleed is epic.
That's a really interesting point! I feel like something similar may be part of why superheroes (which I think fill a similar niche to pro wrestlers in a lot of ways--for one thing, comic discussion would go a lot more smoothly if comicbros understood the concept of "jobbing") are so popular. People are going around in colorful outfits with capes and emblems and such, men are allowed to cry because their situations are high-stakes enough that it's "justified" (no one's gonna get on Hal Jordan's ass for crying when his entire hometown was just utterly destroyed by space aliens along with everyone in it)...
I read an essay once positing that part of the reason weird dudes love the Joker so much might be his gender non-conformity (wears makeup, is very theatrical, his obsession with Batman is sometimes portrayed with romantic or sexual undertones)--like, in their minds, it ties in with the whole "breaking all of society's rules" shtick he has (especially in stuff like The Dark Knight, which is most of these kinds of guys' favorite version). But the essay's point was that there's a layer of plausible deniability behind it. If the Joker actually outright said he wants to fuck Batman, these guys wouldn't like him anymore because "ewww i'm not GAY". When he blows up a hospital while wearing a nurse's uniform, they can focus on blowing up the hospital and rationalize the outfit with "well he's CRAZY haha"
Only watched like once, not big where I am, but my first thought when I did see it was "Oh! It's like ballet for bros!"
I dont see calling it fake an insult, the choreography is really impressive
@@beccangavinmy dad didn't understand why I thought Top Gun was really gay when I watched it with him lol I was like, Maverick and Ice Man have way more chemistry than whatsername!
I keep coming back to the concept of women having a marked gender. It's very interesting. There are masculine gender signifiers, but simply not having those (a suit, a beard, whatever) is not enough to mark one as unmanly. The only things that mark you as unmanly are associated with the feminine. There are many ways to be a man and manly, but very few ways of being are considered feminine. It's highly culturally specific. Refusing to wear dresses is seen us unfeminine, in a way that refusing to wear a suit or a beard is not seen as unmasculine. There is, I think, one other thing that is seen as unmanly, and that is a lack of projected power. Weakness, meekness and passivity are also unmanly. But it is no coincidence that these are also seen as feminine traits.
It's such an interesting idea, I think about it all the time now
To be honest, I dont buy this example. Pants used to be something women didn't wear. I think the reason we dont consider this is mainly because feminism has made pants neutral ground and we consider pants the default
@@digaddog6099 exactly, because things only women wear are not considered default, whereas things oly men wear are considered default.
That's because a 'masculine' world is taken as the default.
So essentially, there are feme things, and everything else.
@@digaddog6099 In the clothing department the tables have definitely turned compared to this video. men have way less options overall. I agree with parts of the general consensus of the video but there a lot of "it used to be like..." in that section. Feminism has broken a lot of that crap down.
As an Australian it's truly validating to see someone talk about the holy wombat and the rituals surrounding it.
It was weird at first when I moved here, but you get used to it really quickly
I f-ing knew it!
the what
@@Envy_May, the holy wombat, one of great marsupials we offer blood sacrifice to
Gotta make those sacrifices if you've got a chance of winning the Emu War
I'm Scottish, yeah we use the same bathroom signs. Kilts are formal as fuck, people don't just kick about in them, we wear them to weddings and big events. I wish we did kick about in them, they are comfortable, but if you do everyone thinks you have big plans that day. Although the way you describe wearing a suit is how a lot of Scots I know feel about wearing a Kilt. When I wear one I start feeling an overwhelming urge to yell at other men in kilts "There can be only one!" in a French accent while wielding a claymore. I do own a Claymore, so this might be an achievable goal for me if it wasn't both illegal and a bit weird.
Most cool shit is illegal and a bit weird
I just pictured Billy Connolly screaming "there can be only one!" and it sounded so amazing.
My partner wears a kilt everyday here in the US. When he goes outside, I hope that he inspires men to start wearing kilts! They look fantastic and I think kilts exude masculinity! Also its a way for my husband to connect with his Scottish roots. So kilts are a win all around!
@@cheffyluv I agree, I hope he inspires more people as well. One of the odd things I find is when people come from another country and go to a wedding here they are often hesitant to get a Kilt. Sometimes it is based on the idea they would be jumping into a culture that isn't thiers (in general the opposite is true, we appereiate the effort if you join in) but the rest of the time it feels like they are turning their nose up because they think of it as a skirt.
@@finntownsley5144 Some would definitely be put off because they think of it as a skirt, which is silly of course! A piece of fabric can't change your gender, lol, also it's already been marked as a masculine item of clothing so 🤷. The mental gymnastics are astonishing. You should crash a bunch of weddings so you'll have more occasions to wear your kilt!
trans person here and yeah you were 100% describing gender euphoria at around the 25 minute mark. It's not just a trans thing!
I'm also trans and I agree, that was a very accurate description of gender euphoria! 🥳
Yeah as an AFAB person I would hear cis guys talking about this kind of stuff and wondered why I related to it so hard and why the ~feminine~ equivalent made me feel so icky. took me until like last year to figure out I was nb (masc) lmao. I related to a lot of what he said about toxic masculinity too
Gender….Euphoria?
24:30
Cis-dude here. You can probably guess which tattoo gives me gender euphoria. I'm so glad we're talking about this.
The section about wanting to cry but bring physically unable really resonated with me. Recently I started trying to make myself cry and ended up just watching stuff that made me really depressed. So I decided to watch some feel-good sitcoms that would give me a much more positive outlook on life, and I chose The Good Place. It worked at first, and I was really enjoying it, but the last season struck me with such existential horror that I was hesitant to watch the last few episodes. After watching the finale I went into my bathroom and sobbed my eyes out, declaring that I didn't want to stop existing. Ever since then I've been able to produce tears at the smallest of things, like how they WENT TO FUCKING SPACE IN A ROCKET CAR in F9 and hit the nitro IN SPACE to destroy a satellite. This feels so much better than bottling up my emotions and I'm already wet (facially) thinking about Vin Diesel catching a rocket with his bare hands in the next one
Feature unlocked: Emotional release valve, user can now vent emotions to atmosphere to preserve homeostasis
@@Cheezus e z dub
@@Cheezus This is my favorite sentence to exist now.
awe wonderful! same thing happened to me when i was like 12. didn't cry rly at all before that. then i was like.. this is boring, i wanna cry at books. so i slowly trained myself to cry at books. then i couldn't stop crying and ever since i cry very easily 🤣
WET (FACIALLY) 😭😭
Remember when high heels, make-up, and big fancy wigs were the height of masculinity?
I, too, miss the music of the 80s.
@@jessiescott7795 LOL...Yeah me too....Like Falco in his "Rock Me Amadeus" music video. (Him wearing exactly what OP wrote) 😆
The height of aristocratic masculinity.
@@jessiescott7795 SUPERB work
Thats why judges can wear wigs, and it was origially deproved from mens horseshues. And be honest, isnt it very manly to be confident enough to just don a dress and wig ,
Alo togas, all the formal dress, kilts, kilt were originally only for men ,
And the astolpho meme, the funny is he is historical really, pink was a boys colour, and that was after boy mede fashion at that french time.
not done with the video yet but i do find it funny when in these toxic masculinity videos there's such a stark divide between men being raised emotionally neglected but women are all free to express feelings because that's not my experience at all. i get i'm not a standard for all girls here but i wasn't raised to ~be emotional~ or whatever and only ever got annoyance when i happened to cry so this broad argument that oh women get to be so emotional unlike men does annoy me to some extent. not to slam this whole argument but just a POV i guess.
Also specifically with regards to being 'allowed' to cry, women are seen as overly emotional anyway so expressing those emotions, while not taboo like it is for men, is still reprimanded for being hysterical or overreacting. Like what are you, on your period? So framing it like women are "free" to be emotional is kind of annoying from that perspective as well like there's more nuance to this. idk
Yes exactly. Women arent "allowed" to be emotional any more than men are "allowed". As in, both men and women CAN show emotion but both will be seen as weak and pathetic by showing emotion. The only difference is that women are EXPECTED to be "weak and pathetic", people believe that women are naturally weaker and less than men, so when a woman cries or shows emotion they just think "typical". But when a man cries, people are surprised, because they expect men to be "better" than women.
So, like you said, the idea that women are allowed to show emotions without repercussion is not true. We are still looked down upon for expressing ourselves
I thoroughly enjoyed this video, but that’s one thing that really annoyed me so I came here to comment lol :p. I think both of the comments here are spot on. Just here to give two thumbs up! 👍🏾👍🏾
This is exactly how I (a pretty 'un-masculine' cis man) have always viewed the difference in treatment I get (from my male friends) when showing emotion compared to my female friends, I just didn't know how to put it into words before. I get seen as 'weak' and 'effeminate', while they get seen as 'unstable' and 'illogical' - but either way showing emotion is seen as a bad thing. Meanwhile my female friends see me crying as 'good for him - he clearly has a healthy relationship with his emotions' - which shows the inherent misogyny and patriarchal gender norms behind it, as the women in my life are supportive of anyone outwardly showing emotion while the men see emotional women as 'hysterical' and emotional men as 'hysterical and therefore girly'. So thanks so much for giving me the means to express my feelings on the issue
You're right that when women cry it's viewed as weakness. Being able to have these big displays of non-anger emotion is less of a freedom and more of an expectation, and since it _is_ still seen as inherently feminine, of course it's also viewed as a negative thanks to misogyny. (There's also a point to be made here about how, for many women, crying is _also_ what happens when they get angry, so this whole thing of writing women off as over-emotional when they cry is a way of dismissing their very real and justified anger as well.)
But on the other hand, women _do_ have much more freedom when it comes to expressing emotional or physical intimacy with each other. It's not weird for female friends to hug each other, or say "I love you" in a completely platonic way. Guys hug sometimes but they're usually kinda weird about it, there's this whole ritual to it so that it doesn't come off as _too_ intimate, and if you say "I love you" to a guy friend it _absolutely_ must be followed by "dude" or "man" to soften the sincerity of it, because, actual sincere emotional intimacy between men? What are you, gay?
And of course to some extent even that is looked down on as "women be emotional", but even so there's still a very real mental health benefit to it that men have shut themselves off from.
I see this point if it's an unconventional context for crying, but I don't really see how this would apply to crying during a movie or a funeral or something
Okay so I will admit that after a breakup I did once buy a set of katanas from an "oriental goods" store in a dying mall going through a liquidation sale.
😂😂😂 happens to the best of us
Don't worry dude, you're not alone
I mentioned this in another comment, but I own a Claymore, I can relate.
I accidentally clicked on your profile icon, saw that you were a creator, watched one of your vids, and now I'm subbed! LOVED your video on Fukuyama's "The End of History?"
@@purple-flowers well, he's credited as one of the writers to this video, so I guess we are all somewhat primed to like his content xD (just finished here, so I didn't check it yet)
I really like the way sofie from mars put it in one of her old videos, society is set up to benefit men and make them powerful but being powerful doesn't necessarily make men happy.
I think Jude Ellison Doyle once called patriarchy a pyramid scheme, and I really like that. The majority of dudes aren't on top, and can't be on top, but they get sold the lie that they CAN be on top as long as they do their best to keep upholding patriarchy.
And doesn't even really benefit men in general that much anyway.
And most men still aren't at the top of that hierarchy, but all people at the top of it are men.
@@janfungusamon4926 This. It is not exactly great, if you ar expected to be successful, but aren't, for whatever reason.
@cyotee doge How do you figure? The available evidence disagree.
I typed this out multiple times, but it kept coming across as sarcastic, so just know that I'm being completely sincere when I say that as a trans person I absolutely LOVE hearing cis people talk about their own personal feelings of gender euphoria. We desperately need more discussions like this!
Cis guy here, the Yakuza/Ryu Ga Gotoku series gives me gender euphoria
huh... another tick on the list of reasons why I'm probably not cis...
@@larsnyman2455 That shit seemed VERY "man" to me, in a good way. I'm stoked to find bros who get euphoria from my favorite karaoke-singing bare-knuckle brawling gangmembers.
Same!!!! I love it when cis people have a more intentional, enthusiastic relationship with their gender instead of just going along with it. I think EVERYONE should try gender questioning, I only see good results from it.
And cisgender dysphoria too imo. I mean, we do talk about it but not in the context of it being experienced as such
I relate to the physically unable to cry part, and how damaging that really is. Me and my wife went through a miscarriage, and I was completely unable to be where she was emotionally. Its like I would let out a little emotion, and then shut down. The tears had to be "surprised" out of me in the following years by stuff like a random little girl running up to me mistaking me for her dad, or an episode of bee and puppycat where baby bee is being adorably rambunctious. But not being able to be emotionally on the same page for my wife just made her feel more alone in the process, regardless of how much support I gave, the emotional connection was important.
Have you managed to solve this? This is one of the banes of my existence.
@joelstephenson2743 Unfortunately not, I dont really know where to start :/ but at least know I can recognize when their is a need to cry underneath the surface. I won't be able to access it intentionally, but at least I know it's there and communicate with my partner about it.
If someone has some better ideas I would love to know 🙃
@@zz8az ayy, we'll work it out one day ig. Thanks for replying still
People who say there's only 2 sex are totally right tho. The sex I had with their mom, and the sex I had with their dad.
Good god I love this joke to no end😂❤
@@CaptianTwug Thnks I stole it word for word from a more cleaver joker.
the sex i had with there dad last night, and the sex i had with there dad the night before cause im bery gay
I feel like there is a Gianni Duke nukem voiceover of this somewhere
@@patcho7518 oh yea the duke nukem voice bit is my fav ver. of the joke
Trans enby here, just want to say thank you for making this video! It's so rare for cis guys to engage with gender in this way so its really heartening to see that some men are actually open to having a discussion about it, this was a great "gender 101" for those people. Even though you don't talk directly about my community much I can say for sure that I'd feel safer and happier being out around a cis guy who has watched this than one who hasn't so its a big win in my book. Much love and best of luck with escaping the gender matrix from your side of the prison yard, I used to be there and realized it just wasn't for me.
That parody was so good I’m gonna abuse the DMCA to get this video taken down.
ahhh loving the content and criticising capitalism in one sentence - I approve
This from a so called "free speech warrior" 😡
He even reproduced the distracting spot on the wall xD
@@ejensen I just assumed he went straight to the source and tracked down the original wall.
Authenticity is incredibly Punk Rock.
God I got scared, it was so perfect
This video Rules and is Good. Small anecdote, I’m a trans guy, and the crying thing made me realize how weird my own journey with masculinity has been. I remember coming out in high school in like 2012 or 2013, and it took me less than a year of being a high school boy to internalize toxic masculinity, lmao. I remember having this moment hanging out at a friend’s place and having an emotionally tough time and just bottling it up and having them tell me “you don’t have to be strong all the time” and it messed with me so much that I remember it roughly 10 years later. The Gender Matrix is powerful. What’s up with that!
(Doing a lot better these days, therapy also rules and is good 😌)
♥️
i've seen a lot of my fellow trans men buy wholeheartedly into toxic masculinity in a misguided effort to """prove""" that they're _really_ men. it's really sad
wholesome bros being bros story. Pretty profound of them to know that at that age
Tbh, growing up trans myself, I heavily internalized toxic masculinity before I even realized I was a guy lmao. It really fucking seeps in
"carbon footprint" is a concept introduced by the oil companies to make people think more about their personal responsibility than that off the people most majorly responsible: said oil companies.
In other words: Tipping the scales so hard they break
Sure, but the leading companies responsible for atmospheric carbon are companies of energy, plastics, and refined materials, which are industries largely driven by consumption.
Your consumption absolutely does matter and does have a huge impact on climate change. Just because reducing your carbon output isn't sufficient _by_ _its_ _self_, doesn't mean you shouldn't do it (preferably while you're also on your way to organize local political change in a sweeping movement that builds to greater and greater changes).
Huge W Take here
Despite him implying he's progressive he sure is believing in concepts pushed by big oil.
As a transmasc person I get gender euphoria when the blokes at work roast me the same way they roast the other young fellas
That rules
Br**sh
I like performance theory as a trans woman because I do perform gender. I enjoy performing gender. I’m a woman no matter what but the amount I perform my womanhood is entirely separate from that. I’m as much a woman when I wear makeup as when I don’t, but I love performing being a woman because it shows who I am to others and allows me to better express my self.
Well said!
Why do you want to perform a thing that was made up to regulate the behavior of humans typically born with innie privates?
I transitioned to femme and was suprised by how easy it was to suddenly escape the prison of toxic masculinity. I feel like I cheated to get out. the internal self-policing dialogue no longer applied to me and I never had to think about it much more. But I didn't realize I was still subconsciously applying those unprocessed toxic masculine roles on people who were still men.
That's wild. As a transmasc I really felt the social freeze when I came out. Things got worse for me. And I still don't really get a break from misogyny, at least when people know I'm afab. But I do feel safer on the street.
Why was that required to undo the mental prison that you created for yourself?
@@Blurredborderlines its not required, but it just so happened to work out that way for op specifically would be my guess. you're probably trolling but i'll give an honest answer anyway
The last 3 times I cried, dog’s death in the last 6 months, to a girlfriend 5 years ago roughly due to talking about my emotions in the context of being walled up, and finally because I was doing bad in my sport many years ago.
My dad yelled at me for hours (I’m an adult student athlete at a division 1 school on scholarship at that time) he said he would kick me off the team unlike my pussy coach and that I was embarrassment for crying.
The girlfriend dumped me the next day.
Dog’s death my fam was not as toxic but she was a really really great dog and everybody cried that day.
Masculinity is often not just a prison in an abstract sense, but is enforced by people around us.
Good vid. Very important for all people so many of these points you made. Also go to therapy, being diagnosed with ADHD has so substantially improved my wellbeing that words feel pithy for the change after treatment. If there is one thing I can recommend to other men, learn to find your emotional self and who you really are, the answers will only help you even if sometimes they are scarier or require outside help to deal with.
Absolutely! Recently got my adhd diagnosis myself, complete life changer
hi hello, friendly neighborhood trans here. gender euphoria is 100% a valid feeling in cis people! if you're gender is "man" and you do something that makes you feel "man" that's the feeling!
I think it was the first time I wore a dress to a party (cishet, btw), and I was immediately like A) hey this is actually really comfortable! and, B) wait, all of this is made up! Was incredibly freeing! Made me feel more comfortable as a man, and funnily enough, it actually made me more comfortable wearing shorts.
Exactly, which is why gender euphoria isn’t a very good way to define transgender identity.
@@cmyk8964 It can be? If you get gender euphoria from manly things, then you are probably a man, even if you weren't dmab. Cis guys and trans guys both experience gender euphoria for manhood, so it is absolutely a valid self-determinant for trans people. Everyone wants to chase their bliss.
@@cmyk8964 It super is though. The trans vs cis part is the directionality. Cis men feel good connecting with maleness, trans women feel good connecting with femaleness. Same as dysphoria, which cis people also experience. The only thing they don't experience is gender incongruence, which is that directionality... noticing that the Genital Destiny isn't the same path as the Internal Destiny.
@@hollandscottthomas For sure right??? The further I got in transition, the more comfortable I felt with wearing ALL kinds of clothes!
Was expecting a video like "Well being [gay/ace/trans] means [...]" and other potentially superficial stuff. Instead I was blown away by the quality of the discourse and the writing, as well as anything relating the video, drawing, editing, humour etc.. Learnt a ton and loved the philosophical aspect which I was DEFINITELY not expecting. And all easy to understand too??!! Absolutely top notch. Keep it up my dude.
this is excellent stuff, and i agree with most of the things here. i have a couple of comments that i feel like i should make as a trans dude of color. not criticisms, just additional info for stuff you touched on off-hand.
before i do *a content warning for mentions of violent transmisogyny, suicide, and violent/fetishistic racism.* okay, lemme try to get this into words.
a) ppl who are assigned male at birth who defy gender norms *are* often seen as more of a threat to patriarchy and gender essentialism... but that's bc those of us who were assigned female at birth are written off as silly or foolish. you mentioned high suicide rates among men, which is important, but a missing piece: trans masculine children have the highest suicide attempt rate of ALL groups of teenagers when accounting for gender differences. this is why trans feminine folks face higher rates of assault and murder, while trans masculine ppl have higher rates of self harm and suicide. they face hypervisibility; we face erasure. both are incredibly damaging, and something i think should be mentioned alongside discussions of gender relations and masculinity as a privilege. especially when we are often directly harmed by ppl wielding misogyny bc they don't consider us not-women.
also consider the perceived threat of butch lesbians "stealing" feminine cis women (who are seen as innocent and foolish and corruptable) and the violence that that has historically incurred. the implication that cisgender butch lesbians are considered acceptable ignores a long history of oppression. afab ppl are expected to be sweet sexy innocent virgins for men to deflower or mother figures. the third "kind" of afab person is a sexually permiscuous "wh*re" and they can be used, cast aside, and scorned. (which is also why the "your mom" jokes tend to rankle ppl so much lol esp insecure men ANYWAY-) trans masc ppl, trans men, and gnc women - esp butch lesbians - are none of these, and therefore can be erased. OR need correction. you can imagine what the latter means for us.
by assuming that afab folks who present in masculine ways are seen as less of a threat - and therefore under LESS threat ourselves - than those who are amab and more feminine, non-trans-masc folks serve to further the erasure we already face. the corrections imposed upon us are simply not as obvious to outside observers.
b) the masculinity that is praised and lauded in white men is often a source of danger for men of color, even those who are cisgender and heteronormative. Black men in the us, for example, are treated markedly differently than white men for having stereotypically masculine presentation and behaviors, *even if those behaviors are nontoxic in nature.* Black men are seen as angry, aggressive, stupid, almost feral - explicitly for being masculine. on the flip side, they're often fetishized by white WOMEN for exactly those same traits. masculinity is NOT always a privilege, even aside from the harms ALL men face that you detailed here. when you allow for intersectionality, you have to acknowledge that not all men (haha) or masculine-presenting ppl are treated like their masculinity is a positive by the wider society.
also apply that intersectionality to Black and Brown gnc lesbians, trans masc ppl, trans men... when changing the way you present to be more masculine bc that is more in-line with who you are and what is comfortable for you could make life even MORE dangerous for you than it already is, that's an added layer of danger, oppression, and pain to navigate that is DIRECTLY related to who you are as a masculine person/man. i know many of my fellow trans masc poc have delayed medical transition for explicitly this reason. it's an important part of this discussion that i feel like white folks should start factoring in.
anyway, this is spot on, and i love your content! you mentioned a lot of this sorta off-hand and i just wanted to give some insight. i *certainly* don't expect you to cover all of this in one video!! just felt like a situation where my thoughts might be useful, and i've had my coffee today. (also hi from a twitter mutual i'm sorry this is so fucking long lmao)
Your comment absolutely needs to be an entire video on intersectionality and gender! If anything it was too short. Thank you from an amab trans woman.
@@aprilk141 i've considered trying my hand at youtube but i have no experience or equipment so i just comment novels on others' videos lol! but thank you
Thank you so much for posting this!
This might be the best comment i have ever read damnn
awesome that you brought your voice here :)
As a man, I can confirm that I am actually a miserable little pile of secrets.
(Please toss wine glass)
Ok Dracula
we have the same brain
Finally someone answers the question “what is a goblin?”
*supresses the masculine urge to make a joke about your mother* 😅
A miserable pile of secrets!
“Judith Butler _might_ be using the word in a way the dictionary doesn’t know about yet” is the most respectful way I’ve heard that phrased and also correct and also it’s the best
this was beautiful. i sometimes fret about my stepson falling down a manosphere hellhole, but he’s cried with his dad after every breakup i’ve been around for, and the last time he visited we talked nail polish and how much he loves his cats. He has way less gender baggage to work through than his father (we are all cis), and thinking what kind of man he is and will become gives me real hope. thanks for the reminder
That is incredibly sweet 🥰
Once, in one of the worst times of my life I went to therapy. When I explained to the therapist that I was struggling to cope; she told me to "man-up". I obviously never went back.
So I study this stuff (I have a BA in Feminist Studies and am getting an MA in Sexuality Studies right now) and I often struggle with youtube videos trying to talk about gender because they don't really approach it from the same theoretical background that I do (I do consider myself a post-structuralist, and appreciate that this video is grounded in queer theory, or at least Butler). Overall this video is awesome and I'm super impressed.
I will say though that Chill Goblin artificially separated gender and sex, which is a useful tool for discussing gender with people new to queer theory. And I do agree that it can be helpful to say this half (gender) is about social relations and this half (sex) is about the body, but it's not actually 'biological'. Butler and others argue (and I agree) that 'sex' or 'biological sex' is also a socially constructed framework, like gender is. I'll explain this, but first let me clarify my terms. A person’s biological sex, or sex assigned at birth is an arbitrary judgement from a doctor or religious leader about a baby’s genitals, usually putting “male” or “female” on that baby’s birth certificate. When we say “sex” or “biological sex”, we often talk about it as if it’s one thing, but actually it’s a bunch of things. Sex can mean a person’s: Genitals,
Secondary sex characteristics, which are the result of hormones in the body and impact a bunch of stuff like fat distribution such as on the breasts or thighs, hair growth on the face or body, how easy it is to develop muscles, voice pitch, and height, Reproductive capabilities- can you impregnate someone, can you be impregnated and carry a child, or Chromosomes.
With all of these things, sex is not binary. For one thing there are intersex people, those who are not 'male' or 'female' but somewhere in between. And intersex is actually really common. 1/100 babies are intersex, 1/2000 have visibly ambiguous genitals. Look up Quigley and Prader scales if you wanna see a visual of this, they're systems of phenotypic grading that illustrate the genital spectrum and illustrate how human genitals can look a bunch of different ways. There are more intersex conditions than days in a year, so there’s a ton of different types of intersex and ways to be intersex, including chromosomal intersex conditions. For another thing, people who undergo medical transition can change various of these aspects. Not chromosomes, as TERFs will point out (although it's pretty irrelevant since chromosomes are invisible, most people don’t know their own because chromosome analysis or karyotyping isn’t done to everyone, and they were only discovered in 1882 anyway), but genitals and secondary sex characteristics can be altered, and there's cis people who are unable to reproduce and trans people who do reproduce so reproductive capability isn't that useful here either. Overall, biological sex in humans is complicated and it’s not binary. Chill Goblin basically made the talking point that “gender is a social construct but sex isn’t”, but the reality is that you can draw a line anywhere on a quigley scale and say male is on one side and female is on the other side, but where you draw the line for what counts as biologically female or biologically male is a choice and it’s a choice hugely influenced by societal and cultural beliefs about our social roles and capacities.
Anyway, good video! I just wanted to add some more post-structuralist analysis of biological sex, since Chill Goblin sorta pushed it to the side. Oh and one more thing- Chill Goblin mentioned at the end that gender interacts with sexuality and that's one of his fav things about it and I just wanna say this is one of the points I come back to all the time- how can we preserve the aspects of gender that get people horny while getting rid of the aspects of gender that make people kill themselves and others? Is it even possible, or are the very things that are awful often also the things we eroticize?
Hey, thank you so much for taking the time to type all this out, 10/10 comment! Really interesting stuff...
I'm pretty new to the idea that sex is a construct, just heard that argument for the first time in Gender Trouble a couple months ago where Butler makes the case that "sex will be shown to have been gender all along." I thought it was really convincing, but your comment made it click for me much better. I definitely have a long way to go on these topics so I appreciate the help :)
Also damn do we just eroticize what's terrible? That's messed up...
@Mitthenstein I don't think OP is implying that we can't say anything about sex. What they're getting at is that human anatomy doesn't fall into neat, distinct categories like is commonly thought. And that the features we define as typical are affected by culture and aren't purely scientific.
@Mitthenstein Hey, you make good points here, and it seems we mostly do agree with each other. I'm certainly not trying to restrict gender to sex (if anything I'm arguing to do away with both gender and biological sex as ideas entirely). I just wanted to call attention to the ways cultural influences shape what we think of as 'biological', which you agree with. I don't think generalizations like "most people aren't intersex", or said another way, "most people can be classified as male or female" are bad, they're totally fine, and true. Just I do think it's worth realizing how much of this particular set of biological taxonomies have some pretty serious disadvantages and personally I think it's usually more helpful to talk about the specific relevant matter rather than say 'males' or 'females' (ie I'm way more of a fan of language like "people who can get pregnant" or "those who are at risk of developing testicular cancer" in medical settings than just saying male or female- it's more specific, inclusive, and puts aside all the messiness of the constructed male/female binary). In general, in my experience, people who are really invested in maintaining male and female as distinct and 'biological' categories are often so invested in maintaining those categories in order to provide justification for regressive politics. That doesn't appear to be you. I don't think science is objective and perfect, and certainly not when trying to explain cultural things like gender and I would argue biological sex. My view is let's use these categories, whether gender or sex terms, when helpful (like for sexy reasons, or when people feel empowered) and place them aside when they no longer help us explain things.
@Mitthenstein I think we're sort of on the same page here, but I disagree that we should stop talking about the idea of sex. Being uncritical about our preconceptions is distinctly unscientific and I don't see how keeping quiet about it furthers any movement, political or academic.
Also, I'm not saying that sex classifications are totally arbitrary nor am I saying that sex and gender are the same thing, or that culture and biology are the same thing. Just that our concept of gender isn't separate from our concept of sex. Like, isn't it strange that we've lumped together so many bodily features into two categories? And that there isn't a consensus for precisely which features are sufficient to classify a person?
I agree that it's important to make a distinction between our culture and our physical bodies, but what I'm getting at is that the way we currently think about our bodies _isn't_ separate from our culture.
Thanks for raising this. I'd also like to fill in from the scientific side why maintaining a sex "binary" is also bad for health research. (I actually wrote a review paper to urge other scientists to stop completely ignoring sex chromosomes and the chromosomal sex of human cell lines in medical (cancer) research! )
So often "sex" in medical studies is the same as the determination made at birth based on external characteristics, yet somehow it's just assumed to exactly match either XX or XY. Exceptions to XX & XY are not at all rare & don't always manifest physically (certainly not in some obviously distinguishing way, as noted), so those possibilities are underrepresented in studies, while the XX & XY categories are also misrepresented.
This has consequences for understanding sex-linked genotypes and phenotypes on health & disease states. For example, many immune genes are X-linked, and to avoid double amounts of X-linked genes products, there is a phenomenon of silencing one of the Xs in organisms made up of cells with two X chromosomes. However this silencing can be uneven & incomplete. It is theorized that less complete silencing of a second X may contribute to a higher observed prevalence of autoimmune disease in "female" people compared to "male" people. But again, we don't actually know patients' karyotypes (fancy word for all the chromosomes a person has) based on physical features or hormone levels, so who's to say is that mechanism is at all right? We can't actually conclude from existing data whether autoimmune disease is higher in XX or maybe XXY individuals compared to XY or some other combination. We have to actually first find out if autoimmune disease is in fact correlated with having more than one X chromosome! On the other hand, if we completely exclude any role for X or Y chromosomes in a disease, we may miss something important that could have a meaningful impact for improving health outcomes.
And of course, I didn't touch on the possible role of hormones in health and disease states which should also be investigated - independently from chromosomes, independently from external anatomical features one is born with.
Just to really belabor the point, external anatomy, hormone levels, and chromosomes are generally correlated, but even a high odds ratio of guessing correctly in a *general* population does not mean you'll actually correctly classify an individual in all those dimensions using just one or even two of them to "infer" the others. And this misclassification is all the more likely to bias study results in a smaller pool of people affected by a particular illness. As I hope I've made clear, this lazy short hand of using external features (or even something like hormone levels) to guess at someone's chromosomes really is bad for science.
This is similarly true with the use of race to assume similar genotype groupings - I highly recommend Dorothy Parker's book Fatal Invention for an in-depth look at that.
The Gender Matrix is kind of a way better term than the Patriarchy. Freaking love it.
omg there is so much in this video to unpack. I'm watching this as a trans woman and I am just amazed at the high level of gender philosophy you are chewing thru like the cool teacher who gets the kids. so far everything you have said about transness has been spot on. I also absolutely believe cis people can experience gender euphoria. I don't think its stolen valor, gender euphoria is just a thing.
This is by far the greatest lecture on gender I have ever seen. Kudos to you Mr Goblin.
Thank you so much!
I'm at the Simon De Bovoire section, the talk about gender signifiers reminds me of the sonic the comic podcast, they have a running joke about how kids kept sending in pictures that were "sonic character, but a girl" and they eventually broke down what kids thought made you a girl.
The "symptoms of womanhood" as they called them were: lipstick, the colour pink, eyelashes and a bow.
One kid sent in a girl version of Dr. Robotnik and didn't remove the mustache. I think it's kind of interesting how nieve the understanding of gender was but also in a way it's closer than a lot of adults get these days.
This video is one for the books. Thank you for shouting out The tumblr post and the fact that trans men's experiences are actually valuable as FUQ to understanding the layers of the masculine experience under this nightmare gender matrix. Relevently, I, a Trans Masculine Individual, have finally obtained a binder that fits today, so this video paired with some dank served as a great celebration for this occasion🤙
Oh hell yeah dude! Congrats :)
Congrats!
@@ChillGoblin also calling it the gender matrix is awesome - a good way to think about it without scarring dudes off. also it kinda goes in the direction of stopping the blame game of genders, and just focuses on the fact that it would be nice to be free to just be us whatever that means. Also congrats eel
Honestly I'll go out on a limb and say trans men/transmasc ppl understand masculinity way better than cis dudes. I've been living like a dude my whole life and recently I had to ask myself "fuck does that even mean?" I have no idea, most cis men don't. Choosing to go through the process of socially and/or medically transitioning to a more masculine expression of gender will inevitably lead to a better understanding of what it is to be a man than is typical for people who never had to ask the question. Transbois are super important and often unfortunately forgotten about.
'pissing/fucking multi-tool' thanks I'm stealing that
Even gender dysphoria isn't entirely unique to trans/nonbinary people, so absolutely gender euphoria can be felt by those who aren't trans/nonbinary. It's way more common ofc, but we aren't the only people affected by gendered expectations.
There's arguments that can be made regarding the bodybuilding and gym culture as being an expression of dysphoria from not being their internalized ideal of a masculine image.
"I need to be bigger" and the like.
@@SeRoAnthem Woah I never thought about it like that but now you point it out, it really is kinda like 'cisgender gender dysphoria'
@@SeRoAnthem Yeah I'm trans and definitely equate dysphoria to gym culture, at least on the more extreme ends of the culture. There could be instances of body dysmorphic disorder in that culture as well, a bit of overlap. Dysphoria and dysmorphic disorder are different though, as are the treatments. Can't express that enough. I just mean that the bodybuilding/gym community tend to have overlap with those of those things.
Dysphoria is a symptom of anxiety/highstress brought about by gender incongruence is treated through, generally speaking, reaching as close to your ideal as you safely and reasonably can.
Dysmophic disorder is a mental health condition which causes a hyperfixation of perceived flaws in the body that can never be fixed through changing the form so instead must be dealt with neurologically.
24:26 My dude. If you feel euphoric about your gender, that is gender euphoria by definition. I am *so* past gatekeeping any of these terms.
Reading from Skaldish helped me understand one of the ways I was perceived differently growing up. I've often been told that girls feel more comfortable being themselves around me. I was invited on a girls vacation trip and told it was because I was safe. My now wife told me I was the first guy she ever connected with. What a surprise for both of us when I found out I am a woman and she's a lesbian! In some ways I'm thankful my parents are passive aggressive, they'd never directly condemn the ways I didn't line up with being a man (to a certain degree)
Not being able to cry f*cking sucks. You still feel sad but there's no catharsis.
Thats not a real thing. Its not that "men arent allowed to cry", its that we dont care if they do. Thats why we send them to die in wars.
I feel like a lot of non-dudes don't understand that it's not just social mores. It's legitimately difficult to physically cry. My dog from childhood died and I felt truly awful about it for weeks until I finally was capable of crying about it. And I wanted to really bad, too.
well, maybe men cry less, maybe is not just patriachy. Think about that?
@@viniciusaugusto6831 already did, didn't explain shit
@@paisleepunk I Never was much into this real man, strong man bullshit, nor my family enforce that, even so, I almost never cry, maybe men do Express themselves in ways different to women's, why should men behave like women do in order to be behaving right or "healthy", I dont want to be crying all the time, I dont need to, and I even naturally cant.
I have a memory of being in early elementary School and seeing my mom and sister paint their nails and wanting to share in that. I asked for a boy color so they painted my nails black. The bus ride to school was so bad I ended up scratching the paint off before getting to school. That is a remarkably strong reaction that I had, but it was a reaction to being bullied
Now in my twenties I'll wear nail polish all the time, and it hasn't been black nail polish for a while
"pissing/fucking multi-tool" I'm adopting this term for my crotch. Thank you. As a trans-masc genderfluid human, I identify strongly with a lot of a the things you said here. Even when I was actually a young person, many many moons ago. A year has not undermined the relative points you've made.
There's a Romanian expression that comes from a famous play of ours: 'Zoe, be Manly' (approximate translation, it actually uses the word for man, 'bărbat' and feminizes it by adding the particle that gives words their feminine version, „ă”). So this is basically told to women like when they are 'weak', or something and I cannot say how much I hate it. It kinda means, be brave, be composed, be clear-headed. My mother used to tell me that whenever I was in distress.
Also, I never got around to reading De Beauvoir, but there was a Romanian sexist comedy film about a beauty pageant that had its contestants pass through a metal outline of an hourglass shaped woman and I always used to describe my gender as the tension between that shape and who I actually am.
Great video!
ALSO ALSO, THANK YOU for talking about the Jordan Peterson crying thing. I get that people are big on schadenfreude, and JP is a horrible human being, but people who are feminist making fun of him for crying seems like such a hypocritical thing to do.
Drag queens are Deadpool, they are aware of the fourth wall and play directly to it.
this rules, youtube needs more content like this for sure.
also hell yeah to m'boi Noah getting a lot of cross-channel action these days, you love to see it! or hear it, i guess.
The first time I heard Noah's voice I was like "oooo I gotta get this guy to read some Beauvoir quotes for me"
Dudes can only ever dream of being this chill and this goblin
Imagine being chill while always in goblin mode
Spirk spotted
Facts
He truly is, a chill goblin
Very goblin
Something I think is so interesting about being a trans guy that I thought of during the Simone de Beauvoir section is that it is a lot harder to name what specific gender markers for men than it is for women and I think it’s partly because women are often allowed to participate in male gender markers but they make them feminine. So you have to identify what they’re doing to make “men’s things” feminine and take those away to figure out what they are. Anything can be for anyone, but I have noticed certain very small markers like cut and shape will change how you’re perceived.
Biological sex is also way more complicated than most of us learned in grade school. There's a really fascinating series about it through radiolab called Gonads. I highly recommend it. It gets into how there are many more possible chromosome combinations than XX and XY. And that many times a person's genitals don't match their chromosomes at all, and ultimately, biologists don't yet know for sure what determines a person's sex.
I think I am gonna double down on gender is a performance. I just feel like being trans has an added layer of physicality with that performance. Denying that your body can harm you is such a dangerous thing, that's kinda already being weirdly erased like it's not reality when it clearly is by trying to erase disabled people. I find that is the same kind of premise (of many) to deny trans existence too. And I think it makes sense that even simple things like clothes can enhance or diminish pain, physical or mental, I just think usually abled cis het people just feel the mental pain, I mean that stereotypical woman not finding anything to wear moment I think has an underlying mental distress. like just today I felt my closet was so plain after loving it for so long and I think it was because I'd been unable to just "dress up" for so long and I was getting pretty anxious about starting my day (until I found something cute and oh girl!) Then being chronically ill as I am really affected my clothes choice too, there is a physicality to it too. The way my clothes feels on me can hurt or help physically, I don't think it's a stretch for trans people to feel that too.
That cut out opportunity cartoon is so cool and relatable! As a guy I often feel like I'm bumping my shoulders on things, tripping on an obstruction, etc when trying to be myself and finding that some of that in gender non conforming. Hearing women's experiences, it's a lot more like they consciously try to squeeze through the gaps to move forward. Such a visual example.
I connected so hard with the toxic masculinty section, I'm now looking into getting theropy to help work through these issues with surpressed emotions. Thank you so much!
Hell yeah brother!!! (Unironically)
Fuck yeah! And don't be afraid to shop around! They're there to help you, not to dictate to you! Some people sort of default to a child/teacher relationship and are afraid to contradict or leave a therapist, but feel free! The WANT feedback! And if you leave they can give recommendations for who to try next!
58:27 I have a Frequently Unanswered Question that just popped into mind about gender being performative (how you walk, sit, posture, etc.): In your readings, have you seen anyone talk about how gender intersects with (visible) disability or neurodiverse folks? What I've observed is disabled and ND folks being infantilized, treated as genderless, or treated as a weak and distasteful version of girl, whatever their age, sex or gender.
There's a video of Judith Butler hanging out with a disabled woman where they discuss this idea a bit, search up "Judith Butler Sunaura Taylor". I'm sure it's a concept discussed at length elsewhere but I think that's the only place I've seen!
@@ChillGoblin Thank you! (IDK why RUclips just now let me know you replied, lol.) Found it! Some rough notes for those interested:
Sunaura Taylor uses the phrase "going for a walk" when she uses her wheelchair along the streets of San Francisco. Whereas I thought it inaccessible, she says it's one of the most accessible cities in the world, with curb cutouts, accessible public transportation, etc.
2:15 "Physical access leads to a social access and acceptance." - Sunaura Taylor
Buying a sweater.
8:00 Sunaura requests bills and change separate. "Yeah, I just can't hold both at the same time."
8:20 "I think gender and disability converge in a whole lot of different ways. But one thing I think both movements do us get us to rethink what the body can do." - Judith Butler
10:10 a guy in Maine killed by 3 classmates for walking with swishy hips. "A walk can be a dangerous thing." 11:06 Judith Butler
As a child, Surauna was told she "Walk[s] like a monkey . . . Where our boundaries are as a human, and what becomes non-human." 12:11 "when between male and female, and death and health: when do you still count as a human?" 12:50 Surauna Taylor
Rethinking the human as a site of interdependency . . . "Do we, or do we not, live in a world where we assist each other?" - Judith Butler
It's a challenge to individualism when you ask for help with the coffee cup.
Dude, you're allowed gender euphoria! If I found one thing being openly trans on the internet is that most people don't think about their gender to such a point where they don't think it exists. This was a damn good watch.
Keep in mind that Simone de Beauvoir and Luce Irrigaray's work are in french, especially important in Irrigaray's case, since she deals with language so much . there's no direct equivalent to "it" in French, for example and objects are gendered .. "non gendered" languages are another different situation..
The work of the great Simone Weil is worth checking, too..
I was surprised he didn't mention that it was French at all ! French is even MORE gendered than Spanish, it's crazy. Even when talking about, for example, "my aunt." The "my" has to match the gender of the aunt ! That's not gendered AT ALL in Spanish, and it baffled me that the gender of the "my" referred to what I was speaking about and not myself ?
I guess this is a hidden benefit of being a disabled person: it was abundantly clear, from a very early age, that I was "the other" so hard notions of gender identity never really stuck. And perhaps for better (or worse), it didn't bother people when I did something divergent because they'd first have to acknowledge me to judge me, and they were too busy judging my gait from afar to notice the sundress or nail polish.
Then again, I don't buy most gender constructions. I don't fundamentally belive that colors, clothes or hobbies carry a gender, for example, so a person do identifies as a woman is a woman whether she's wearing a dress or pants, she can wear a broad banded watch and she's still a woman, she can prefer green in her clothing and still be a woman.
The flipside though is, I don't have a frame of reference to talk to people who observe or espouse hard gender roles. I don't see it as necessary or even useful, and I can't understand why they view it as useful. The easiest example is the pay gap, I've got no civility at all for gendering or gender valuing "work" it's both reductive and aggressively capitalist, and I just can't with those people
It's an interesting position to be othered and being on the outside of normal society analyzing the structure of things that the average people live inside. I think a lot of neurodivergent people (and those dealing with things that affect their social life) find it harder to relate to the average social/life experience and have to question things more actively in order to try to mask and navigate, leading to seeing the edges more often. And being othered makes it easier to reject the matrix.
I think there is an old Sophie from Mars video where she talks about men being the default and women being the other by looking at cartoons. A cartoon character is male by default, but slap a bow and some elongated eyelashes on it and it's a girl.
As a trans girl, I get the intense urge to cry, or an overwhelming wave if emotions that should deserve some tears, but still physically can't fucking do it. I buried that shit so hard that I sometimes feel like I completely lost my ability to cry, no matter how hard I try
Awwwwww
❤️ keep trying! It takes a lot of overcoming conditioning but you CAN get that back eventually 😭
I was so sad when this video ended. I’ve never heard anyone present these ideas so well. Definitely sending this to my homies 💜🏳️⚧️
As a trans woman, I like the perfomative idea of gender. But I just can’t get past the implications of HRT. I went from depressed to not depressed when I started hrt. So I can’t help but feel that there is a degree of biology to it.
I think of it like singing. Singing is biological. It's associated with oxytocin and child nurturing, the brain has a different way of listening to it and relating to it, compared to speech. A song, on the other hand, is not biology, it's culture, but if one is to sing, it is best to have a song.
@@laurelgardner that's a good way to say it. I see gender and it's performativity as somewhat biologically informed, that we have some inherent want to perform or be whatever gender. For some people it'll line up to their assigned gender at birth, for others it won't.
Trans folk (like me) still fits in this framework with a small change.
@@laurelgardner I like you!
@@kariarabellalassauniere402 d'aw, thanks!
Does less hair, less overwhelming libido, softer skin, growing breasts, more direct emotions, etc... count as biology ? If so, obviously there is a part of biology, we're changing our own biology to be closer to that of other women
Biology was never this immutable nor inherent thing that gender conservatism ideologues try to claim it is.
This is great, sending it to all my bro dudes who have questions about this subject
about the crying, back when i transitioned there happened something pretty bad for me and it made me cry and at first i was like no i shouldnt cry since that is what i grew up learning. but i kinda kept crying and crying and crying. it was like i had to cry out all those tears i didnt cry before transition. it was such a great feeling and after i was done i didnt even care about the bad thing anymore, i just felt like something inside me finally started healing
When Chill Goblin does We're in Hell better than We're in Hell 😮💨😮💨
I am a trans woman, I watched this video a few months before I realized I was trans and I remember thinking "hm yes this euphoria thing, I don't really enjoy any of the things he's listing but I do remember enjoying singing 'I Want it That Way' in the shower with the boys"... huh
Haha! Gotta be a sign. Congratulations on the transition :)
But, but... I like singing "I Want it That Way" too...
@@RasmusVJS yeah I failed to make my point, what I meant to say is the way I stayed in denial was by saying enjoying time with "the boys" for once was gender euphoria
@@PeninatorSS Ah, makes sense. But really, who wouldn't enjoy singing that.
Another thing that phallogocentric language made me think of. If you're hanging out with friends, let's say you have a bug in a cup. You might want to take care of the bug and watch it and stuff, and you might name it. You might name him Fred, and call him he, and that would be fine, people would just call him he, even if you can't check the sex of the bug. But if you start out with "let's call her Val." You might get some responses anywhere from "Why is it a girl, we don't know it's a girl" to "Oh, she's a girl? Ok." Male is seen as the default, with women as an exception
I revel in correcting people when they call worker honeybees "he". You almost never see the drones unless you're a beekeeper.
But does it make sense to choose gendered pronouns for a species with (at least I assume) no concept of gender? Whatever, I suspect they couldn't care less.
Just more insect thoughts. :)
Except if it's a boat, car, TV etc. It's entirely arbitrary and in no way indicative of "male being the default" or whatever nonsense ideology you're pushing.
@@ryokukagirinai Yeah, but aren't those 'female' things all something you are proud of owning?
Is it just me, or does Goblin just straight up look like he plays guitar? And like, not even the way he dresses or anything. He's just got a guitarist's face and hair lol
✨ Guitarist Essentialism ✨
Yes. He's definitely in a rock band. And of he says he isnt, is because he just doesnt know It yet.
@@ingredi8409 Like, being in a rock band is a state of mind, man
@@UbeFlavoured This legit made me cackle. Bravo
that tumblr post rally got me thinking about my own social connections (as the most stereotyical white cis dude) because i recently moved cities and made a whole new friend group and i started noticing that i am making significantly deeper connections with women and queer people (who have that 'social armor') than most guys. And i think the reason for that is that i try to not lie about slight imperfections or embarrasing details about myself. I figure by showing vulnerability i'm coming off as less threatening to that social armor. And i dont think the opposite is true, guys might think they come off as weak but i think im percieved way more confident than i am and used to be. I guess im also super privileged that i can afford that kind of vulnerability becaus as the 'default person', you dont get put in boxes that might conflict with certain details as easily.
Alroght im high and i dont know where im going with this, here's that thought of mine
This was such a fun video to listen to. I'm pretty familiar by this point in gender as performance theory, but hearing it as a dude meant for dudes makes this really approachable! Really appreciate you putting this together and committing to it so well. The mom jokes bit was exceptional!
As a trans guy I also have zero idea why we are trans instead of gender non conforming people. Heck, I'm a feminine trans guy so I'm pretty far from a nonconforming woman.
We just are trans because we're trans and we are happier going along with that I guess!
Finally got a chance to sit down and watch this proper, what a fantastic and necessary video, so thrilled to have been able to contribute. 💙
Also, Bell Hooks' insights are incredible, some of her quotes straight up leave me feeling winded.
I just dropped by to say what a killer thumbnail and title you have here.
Something about this video makes me just a little bit more confident to walk into work today wearing make up or go out with friends in whatever I feel like. Thanks bro.
Do your thing!
The power of gender norms really is incredible. Even in understanding that crying doesn't make you less of a man, I find myself bottling it up when I feel the urge to cry. I tell myself the classics like "stay strong" and "don't let others see you being weak" as if crying makes one weak. Great video
Yes, this is very weird to me, because growing up, although outwardly I looked feminine I too internalized the "crying = weakness". I know very well the feeling you get in your throat, almost pain, like a ball inflating. Later on I learned that I was being stupid and crying actually shows I am confident, and brave. Because "crying is embarassing so only those who are brave can do it." The logic isn't all there, but it really helped.
I got called gay for wearing a collard sweater like wtf it was cold outside smh
Fellas is it gay to stay warm? 😭
It was classic menswear too 🤣
@@samdal420 Sometimes that shit gets to the point that it’s basically “Fellas, is it gay to be straight”. It’s hilarious to watch from the outside (Aro/ace)
The controversy about drag Queens in America is So funny to me as a brit. Like there is a lot wrong with pantomime Dames but it has that same parody of gender and my Catholic school showed them to me from age 3 to 18. Tho Ig now I'm trans so I guess I can't prove that's not what caused it.
It's probably not. I used to do panto before I came out as trans. Afterwards the director said, 'Ah, now I understand why I never saw you as a Dame!'
I love his content already, but this is some of his best work yet. Profound and hilarious. Especially as a cis het dude it really forces you to do some introspection. It takes guys like him to do the reading and take the time to package up difficult topics like this in order to open minds and change society. Chill Goblin's following is criminally small! Right on, dude
This was really good and thanks for the shout out!
It’s a great video, and mentioning it saved me a ton of miserable work recapping Iron John!
I’m going to start telling people I am in drag instead of telling everyone I’m vegan from now on.
No your not. That would be like a pilot describing themselves as a taxi driver.
@@laserbrain7774 but what is a plane but a very large aerial taxi? (obviously reductive but still)
Hey Chill Goblin, thank you for making this video. I’ve rewatched it so, so many times and have shared it with many of my male friends. I genuinely believe that this is one of the best introduction videos to gender theory I’ve ever seen. thank you for your high quality content. You’re an absolute fucking lad. Have a great day
This video was instrumental in me seeking out Bell Hooks and learning so much about why I am how I am. Thankyou man, I feel I’m a better person for stumbling across this on RUclips
Simone de Beauvoir talks on and on about menstruation and being the sex who carries the child in her discussion in the Second Sex.
She talks about how the human female body differs from other species female bodies, and how that impacts the development of the concept of “woman”, and the treatment of “woman” in society.
I thought she was very specifically talking about sex, and in a way not interchangeable with gender.
I think the way you position her text still holds true to her overarching themes. You broke down these ideas so so well.
But part of the power of The Second Sex *is* the biological framework she spends so long setting up.
And she does it in a way that is still very queer! It’s biology, but not trans exclusionary.
31:52 this is the best analogy for anything that I've ever heard lmao
When most leftist mock Jordan crying, at least I think it is not because he's crying per se but rather the that it is so bizarre and shocking that anyone would cry about what he cries so often, in other words, the fact that he cries about a bunch of bigoted nonsense and bullshit.
Yes, I agree. At least for me it is not that he is crying, it is that he is crying at some insane stuff that furthers insane thought. It's not even funny, it's just very bizarre.
To me, something seems really off about his crying, in a way that has nothing to do with gender. I'd feel the same if a woman was engaging in similar behaviour.
damn, i've been looking for this video for a long time. my transmasculine experience is a weird one, but nothing couldve prepared me for the difference between presenting femininely and masculinely. the tests men put each other through, not only peers but guardians and teachers, are so jarringly ugly and humiliating when you're not used to them... and i'm an angry crier. on the flip side, i can't even put my finger on what i loathe so much about being perceived as a woman, but jesus christ it's exhausting. heavy is the chest that wears the tits. thanks for this vid man
we are born naked. everything else is drag.
Jordy’s crocodile tear schtick absolutely works for his “high-minded centrist” grift. A friend of mine is into his shit despite having the right idea about most shit and it’s the first thing to come up every time I try to push back on that.
I'm trans and think it's cool as shit you love your gender and experience gender Euphoria even if youre cis. Like I think everyone should have fun with thier gender yknow
Dont call other people CIS. Its offensive and something only non-cis people do. Really comes off like a slur.
@@nullakjg767 shut up
@@nullakjg767 this is a really silly thing for you to say
@@nullakjg767 he literally called himself cis while talking about gender euphoria and it’s very rarely used in a derogatory way.
Get over yourself „snowflake“
Man do I feel cringe for calling you snowflake.
How are the anti-sjw doing this?
@@nullakjg767 Why do you find it offensive?
Hey, I have that edition of Gender Trouble!
A thing I think is important to mention is that later Butler has spoken much more about desire to be a gender as an important part of gender identity, something they didn't discuss as much in Gender Trouble. I think that makes a lot of sense given they were not out as nonbinary at the time; so of course they would focus more on the performative aspects of gender, if they didn't feel particularly tied to womanhood. For more of that I really recommend Butler's Undoing Gender!
A few people have told me about that one now, I'll definitely have to check it out! Apparently more accessible than Gender Trouble too?
@@ChillGoblin It is! Honestly, just the introduction of that book has so much useful stuff and it's much more straightforward generally speaking.
I'm ~ 32 minutes into the video right now, and seriously, those Newfoundland brochures... they really make me wanna move back. Not even joking, you mentioning them made me tear up a little bit.
Seriously though, this is a great video so far. I might actually be able to show it to some of my family members who haven't really grasped gender stuff yet. Thank you!!
Thank you! The exact type thing i needed to help my Roommate understand all this, he has the right ideas but still couldn't coprehend some stuff.
Fantastic video!
I'm a trans-femme person and the discussions of masculinity here are really relevant to the reasons I realized I'm not a man.
Also, this video contains some of the funniest moments from any youtube essays I can remember.
I definitely actually cried laughing when you talked about Gravity. 🤣🤣
Love how this video has a 2+ minute ad before it that's some old guy Hocking a "way to restore your testosterone"
Way to go RUclips algorithm, you make the point before the thing even got started!
‘A dude with nail polish?! Is this a sign the west is about to fall?!’ Made me chuckle, very chuckly
When I was in highschool, the boys in my grade created physical Man Cards. It was a card they carried in their wallets.
And they revoked one guy's. Because he demonstrated love towards a girl.
Lmao that says it all
Just wanna say I really love your illustrations and your unique style, I can tell you put a lot of effort into them! Great work my man!