The part about child abuse is actually sickening. Wakefield shouldn't have just lost his medical license. He should be in jail for assault and child abuse.
I think it's not widely known what damages the procedures he conducted can do unless you're a doctor, so it's likely these facts were never made loud enough to get legal action.
VERY COOL HIDDEN DETAIL: at 36:32, when hbomb says "in my opinion, andrew wakefield is a lying conman who wanted your money," strangely, a citation appears. if you check his source list, that citation just links directly back to his own youtube channel. i believe he did this to parody wakefield by citing his opinion as proof of his own opinion. great stuff
Just so you know, it is normal to cite your previous work on a subject. In Wakefield's case the work being cited is utter nonsense, but it is still normal.
Watching this video 2+ years later and the best joke in the piece being the final line: "I will never put this much effort into researching a video ever again..."
oh i kno right? he probably read what 2-3 hours of stuff? who can ever read that much? in this tik tok world nobody can. its impossible. he literally did the impossible. reading and paying attention for more than 20 seconds. how could he do such a thing? you dont get it and neither do it. thats what makes it such a great joke right? because its super hilarious. i told it at the office xmas party and everybody was on the floor laughing. literally, they were laying and rolling on the floor laughing. i had to check on 1 of them to make sure they could breath because of how amazingly funny that joke is. you have a good sense of humor and arent a moron at all.
When we got our COVID shots, in school, the three of us, we were sitting there for the required fifteen minutes. We sat there in silence. Suddenly one of us, not me, my friend, turns to me with this shit eating grin on his face. The two of us turn to him. We stare at each other. Still grinning, he says "I can feel my autism getting stronger" and the three of us lose our minds laughing. We are all diagnosed. Life is, if not good, at least okay
As a scientist I want to stress just how damning it is that a scientist requested his name not be included on a paper BEFORE it was published. As a PhD candidate publishing papers is THE central part to getting your degree. Even after leaving school the papers you have published are an essential part of your resume in many sectors. In non-Scientist terms it would essentially be the same as saying that having a gap on your resume is better than admitting you worked for X company.
Shout out to when HBomb says "I want Brian Deer to be able to track this video coming out on a graph of his book sales" and then in his plagerism video it turns out there was a rather impressive uptick in the book sales after this video came out. Sometimes dreams do come true.
I love how Wakefield’s new boss was like “You know, Andy, you’re right! This does warrant more looking into! Let’s fund a giant study to check your work!” That’s a real power move
"Er, look, boss... I already spent 2900 hours at £150 an hour (£435,000 in total) gathering this extremely flimsy fabricated conjecture-as-evidence paper of mine, I really don't want to spend more time producing masses of evidence that will prove me even more wrong than all the negative results I've already gotten. I mean, hey, maybe in ten or fifteen years there will be definitive scientific proof that I'm right. Who knows! Apart from me, I know that there definitely *won't* because I'm a fraud, but still!"
Had a coworker name-drop Wakefield recently (I work in the US so it was a bit weird to hear his name) and start talking about how they were positive he was right about vaccines and autism. I asked them if they knew about the one doctor I heard of, that got caught being paid by a lawyer to push a class-action lawsuit in order to get vaccines approved, and how horrible of a conflict of interest that must be and how we should completely discredit that doctor and anything they did. The co-worker agreed completely, so I pretended to suddenly remember the doctor's name. Lo and behold, somehow it didn't count for Wakefield. Fucking hypocrites.
I'm sure you're not a hypocrite. So do we wanna talk about the adjutants in the vaccines or are we gonna pretend that the main and only claim is about autism? Which way buddy? Intellectual honesty or the straw man you are so fond of beating?
Kinda funny we wouldn't have to push shots if we didn't let un treated people in to our country. But thats why all the old plagues are breaking out again.
I guess I'm still a baby, cause I've read this comment a decent amount of times and I keep losing the story in the second paragraph. It sounds like an important one, too. OMG IT'S BEEN 4 DAYS AND I FINALLY GOT IT! The doctor was Wakefield, and the coworkers were making an exception for him and being biased, which made them hypocrites! Did I do good?!
@@stronautninjatoxicThe poster basically reversed the Wakefield story, making up a fake pro vaccine doctor. The co-worker agreed that this fake doctor was a horrible doctor, but when the poster revealed that Wakefield actually did the exact same thing but against vaccines, the co-worker gave Wakefield a pass. It’s hypocrisy.
My scientific research shows an overwhelming amount of cases where children with autism have contacted sunlight during their childhood. Therefore, sunlight causes autism. Thank you for coming to my show.
Jesus christ that's terrifying, what alternative medicine can I buy to stop that bad thing from happening? And don't say sunscreen, I know that stuff is full of microchips and gay chemicals!
funny enough there's actually a viable theory that the sudden spike in near-sightedness is linked to those people having not seen the sun enough as children. well that and the sun actually causing, like, skin cancer. oh and autism, of course /s
Speaking of which, did you know that dihydrogen monoxide is the most lethal substance on the planet? Literally 100% of everyone who touches it passes away, it's absolutely insane!
In all fairness, Andrew Wakefield was already very well known as a con artist and disgusting man. Hbomb didn't really discover anything new about this issue like he did for the other two
The fact that people forgot how bad measles is and decided that autism was somehow the scarier option really speaks to how effective the measles vaccine has been
It's also preying on Parents' worries that their child will be difficult & require more care & support by demonising Autistic people as a whole, treating them like lesser people that can't succeed in life. It's a wholly shameful ideology aimed at discrediting an entire subsection of people, writing them off as unintelligent & difficult leeches that can't contribute to society. It's a supremacist mindset aimed at scapegoating a genetic disorder. The lack of firsthand experience with Measles in the generation of parents that chose to forego the vaccine, as well as medical advancement, helped to upset the pros & cons and flip the narrative to support anti-vaxx sentiment and ingrain a sense of fear of neurological disorders & mental illness in an attempt to erase those disorders from public consciousness to cut social support for those disorders & abandon those that suffer to allow the "exceptional" people to succeed with less competition from those around them that get "unfair" support.
Brady Bunch aired a episode called ""Is There a Doctor in the House" to dispel the irrational fear of germaphobic lunatics. They explained how measles is very mild for 99% of people. And its nothing to be feared.
it’s so frustrating as an autistic person that people believe that getting a potential deadly disease is better than having autism. having autism can be hard at times, but i’m still a person and i’m not “broken” or “ruined”. autism has largely been villainized, and multiple autism organizations *cough cough autism speaks* have made it way worse.
See also "treatment/management" for most ofd the time that we've had a word for autism has consisted of "How do we make them act "normal"?" rather than "what support can we offer that will help them to live healthy happy lives?"
One thing I think is fun is that, alongside the whole discussion of 'when do you notice a steadily growing symptom', there's actually _such_ a good reason for this to be correlated with vaccination. Most people don't spend most of their time thinking about health, or _expecting_ symptoms of anything. Then, when you get the vaccination, you're warned that your kid might have a symptom or two over the coming days, and so suddenly you pay much more attention, and notice things which were perhaps already there, but weren't significant enough for you to notice in the first place.
My mother is an anti-vaxxer so me and my brothers weren't vaccinated. We all have autism. By applying Wakefields research methods to this, I have concluded that vaccines are able to prevent autism. Can I be paid millions of dollars for my 'research' now, or do I need to publish a book first?
You are just as, if not more, credible than Disgraced Doctor Andrew Jeremy Wakefield. I applaud your commitment to science, how much money can I give you to pretend to go do a study about this?
@@ithinkflutterawesome6511 I will gladly accept anywhere between the range of excessive and ludicrous amounts of money in exchange for me doing nothing and saying I did.
@@CabereaWoof Oh my gosh, my aunt is antivax as well, and all of her kids are neurodivergent (two with autism, three with ADHD). I would love to volunteer them for this highly scientific study.
I read the article that Hbomb cited about the child who suffered multiple organ failure from a botched colonoscopy and it shows that the situation was even worse. The article mentions the multi organ failure, specifically liver and kidneys, but also says that he developed stomach ulcers, epilepsy, and a swollen brain. On top of that, the article was published in 2007. So it looks like it took NINE YEARS for the family to get some kind of justice.
everyone keeps talking about how to "cure" autism or "prevent" autism, but the only time I hear about helping people with autism live our lives it's from people who think we never age beyond 7
Me, an autistic 30-year-old: *googles to find some tips on coping with being an autistic adult* Google: THIS IS WHY YOUR AUTISTIC CHILD DOES THESE THINGS HOW TO HELP YOUR AUTISTIC CHILD YOUR AUTISTIC CHILD NEEDS THIS Me: please sir, we don't vanish when we hit 18 Google: AUTISTIC C H I L D
Uugh, this makes me so mad. I'm 35, and I can't stop thinking about how much better my life would be if I had help in dealing with basic skills like organization and cleaning and stuff. I don't have the first goddamn idea what I'm doing here, just any help at all and I could actually do something with my life.
@@Lawnie lmao oh my god this is so familiar, I am an adult recently diagnosed with ADHD and it's the same there. I just want some coping tips, not to read an article that might as well be titled 'sorry your kid is broken, here's how to stop it being a problem for you'.
What's fun is when I first started university, I distinctly remember my professor gave us all a handout saying it was a published scientific paper, and our homework was to read it and jot down what things looked good, what things looked bad, and to write a short analysis of the work and what we thought of it. It was Wakefield's paper. The next day our professor pulled it up on her computer with the giant red REDACTED all over it and explained what happened with the paper, and the entire class was about our analysis, understanding good science from bad, and learning how to be more scientifically literate by not just taking what a paper says for granted. I'll always remember that class, it felt empowering and really helped to form who I am as a scientist today. So I guess that's one good thing Wakefield contributed to the world. But really, I'd rather this just not have ever happened and we learned the same values some other way. I dunno, I thought you might be interested in knowing that.
Awesome idea. Bad science isnt obvious to most people. I really wanted to get into scientific technical writing, I found the prospect of reading and researching a scientific paper in order to make it digestible to the masses very appealing. Then I realized my real job would be sugar-coating problems with scientific research for some board of assholes to read and try to find ways to work around. Which put a huge damper on my dreams lol
@@Mish844 From what I’m familiar with, and what I’ve heard doctors and researchers in general say, this was a textbook case of three big red flags: small sample sizes, a unique and distinct observation, and ulterior motive. Alternative medicine is _riddled_ with these in whatever they’re calling “studies” or collected testimonials these days.
@@Mish844 Probably the biggest thing to look at is how the experiment was set up and executed. There should be a clear hypothesis stated and an experiment designed to test that hypothesis without bias. It can be tricky to catch some smaller details but it's important that scientists take great care to ensure that outside factors that may also influence the hypothesis are accounted for (which is also why having a good control group is super important), and a larger double blind study with lots of people is going to yield stronger results than a small study with little experimental data to work with. Obfuscating data results or not being detailed in how you collected your data screams bad science. Another thing to look out for is a thing called p-hacking. There is a p value in a lot of statistic based studies that is basically an evaluation on if your data supports the hypothesis or not by chance, and really anything over 0.05 (so greater than 5% chance) isn't taken seriously. But some studies will run an experiment and test for a bunch of different things at the same time, and eventually you'll end up with a value that matches something that on paper is statistically significant even though you just threw a bunch of shit at the wall. That's how you get weird bullshit like how eating chocolate makes you lose weight. Essentially, it's fudging data in a way that the system may not initially recognize, but it's easy to spot once you know to look for it. A study citing really old studies with super outdated claims and data is also a huge red flag. You have to do a lot of extra digging though. A few older references can be fine because a lot of science holds up, but if they are citing a bunch of old weird shit then it's a huge red flag. Looking at the authors that they cite is also a good idea because you can catch some of these batshit crazy people being cited to support a bullshit claim which will hurt the credibility of the citing author and the article they wrote. Other things like begging the question fallacies can also pop up here and there. Note that a lot of stuff that is peer reviewed and is published in revered journals are not likely to have much of any of this stuff. You'll find a LOT of this kind of thing in bunk science and journeying away from the world of peer review will create a whole host of red flags similar to this.
@@boogiebutters6743 There's fucktons of them (we have a very complex honours system - peerages, orders of chivalry, medals and so on). But they're handed out to people the Tory government likes, not necessarily people who deserve them. A TERF even got an OBE (Officer of the Order of the British Empire) recently.
What frustrates me about this whole movement is that it paints autism as some kind of death sentence. People like Wakefield is literally advocating for a kneejerk reaction to neurodivergency with words like “Neuropsychiatric Dysfunction” without an understanding of what it is and that’s really upsetting.
@@snartboy5000 Disgusting? It is utterly disturbing that those people care more about their own world-views than their children and we should prevent those people from having some in the first place since they would be horrible parents!
The way transphobes talk about trans kids now is the way ableists have been talking about autism for decades, like it's a demon that possessed your kid and the child you knew is gone, and your only hope of rescuing them is to be as huge of an asshole as you possibly can to the thing that's wearing your kid's skin. Conversion therapy advocates put me in mind of those old Autism Speaks ads with a scary voiceover saying "I am autism, I'll steal all your happiness and ruin your child" or whatever, playing over footage of kids just chilling.
My aunt is a vaccine "skeptic" and constantly brings the Wakefield paper up, I personally like to remind her that no one has EVER shit themselves autistic
While the bacteria in your gut often can dictate how you feel in your brain (it's actually true, look it up) the bacteria in your gut doesn't dictate how your brain is wired/how you see the world. So while i can kinda see what he was going for, it's still fucking stupid.
Not fun fact: some parents force their autistic kids to drink bleach (or give them bleach enemas) because they think that it's caused by intestinal parasites and they claim the shedded damaged intestinal lining is proof as "it looks like dead parasites! Must be dead parasites, then!". Chlorine dioxide (industrial bleach, often called 'Miracle Mineral Solution' among its proponents), however some other parents also force their autist kids to drink their own urine as autism cure, or some other dangerous chemical. So while shitting yourself autistic isn't a thing, parents making autist kids shit their guts out (too literally) in an attempt to "cure them" is a thing.
I know this has been said in the video and probably a lot in the comments, but as an autistic person I cannot express enough how absolutely devastating it feels to see real people say that they would rather their child die of a preventable disease than turn out like you.
Isn’t that crazy? Because they don’t want more work. I had an EX who said that if she gave birth to a kid with a disability she’d give it up and I was so shocked by that. I kept asking her year after year and she always said the same, until she said she’d be find with an autistic kid bc she found out she is 😂
@@lindboknifeandtoolgod, that’s terrible. People shouldn’t have kids at all if they aren’t prepared for their kid to be disabled. I’m glad you’re not still with them.
I once had a """friend""" literally call me DEFORMED for having autism, then get annoyed *at me* for getting offended at the wording. I've also heard someone complain about another person with autism for admittedly shitty behaviour and actually pull a "well... you know, he DID have autism..." and again, was like "Hey, it's true though! I'm not wrong!" when I confronted them over it. This was a one-to-one conversation. He knew I had autism. He said it all anyway. And then there's of course the whole "hahaha that's autistic. Autistic screeching lmaoooo!" To many people out there, we are indeed a disease to cure, a deformity to erase if possible. You'd be amazed how pervasive that opinion actually is. We're not yet in the mental condition list that is cool to care about, unlike those poor ""socially anxious"" (socially maladjusted) straight white men ;-;
my mother was one of the people who believed Wakefield (idk if she still does, we don't talk anymore) so when the time came she paid for me to have the MMR in separate doses so I "wouldn't get autism" (around £180) which will never not be funny to me because I was later diagnosed as autistic anyway
Are you me? Because apart from the fact I still talk to my mum, I could have written this word for word. My parents took me to fucking France for the single jabs!
As a child of an anti vax mother, you have saved me, I'm not allowed to go to school because of her, you've wiped away my fear wrapped up in a silly/goody yet serious/stern delivery, thank you so so much
Something interesting to me as an autistic person is the fact that anti-vax parents who are terrified of autism rarely seem to even know what autism is. They talk about it like it's a shadow monster lurking in the darkness and waiting to snatch up their kids in the night. For half of them it doesn't even occur to them that autistic adults exist and have lives of their own. Honestly most of them talk about autism solely as a burden on them and not something that their children will have to deal with their entire lives. Their definition of autism boils down to "a bad thing that will happen to me" and not "a condition my child might have". That's weird, isn't it?
it is weird that kind of solipsistic egoism is very prevalent amongst parents and researchers, unfortunately. autism is talked about as a bad thing that happens to allistic people
"Autism parents" are the absolute worst. I'm talking specifically about the ones you can find over at Autism Speaks, who are purely evil quacks and just want pity for wasting all their precious time raising "damaged children".
Wakefield was saying that the cause of the autism was a “leaky gut”, meanwhile he was actually puncturing children’s intestines with unsafe colonoscopies. I know it doesn’t matter now, but that sounds related somehow
My mom nearly died of mumps as an adult because of an ineffective booster shot. She still has vivid memories of the experience and it breaks her heart hearing about people who refuse to vaccinate their kids. Glad you got through that and hope your recovery goes well.
Public Service Announcement - I'm a 27 years old woman with no health issues (oh wait), and I took the "go and get a colonoscopy" advice. There were issues, and now I'm getting them every few years. Please follow his advice and get one, even if you think you're too young.
Oh yeah, colon cancer is no joke. Preventive is always easier, better, cheaper, and less uncomfortable than treatment. I had skin cancer at 15 and wouldn't have ever known had my mon not insisted I go to the dermatologist. We caught it early enough to remove it without any complications. We go annually now to check in on any other suspiciously shaped moles.
As a Dark Personal Anecdote: My mother asked me as a kid if I "wanted" a specific vaccine, and I obviously said no because I was a child, therefore I did not receive it and forgot about the incident for years. (She asked me because she was mildly anti-vax, too late for that ma'am, I was born autistic, and wanted to have someone to put the blame on in case it caused problems down the line... It wasn't until this year, when I was diagnosed with an infection that was a result of assault, that I discovered I had contracted the exact infection said vaccine would have prevented. It is likely that I will develop at least one kind of cancer as a result, and still have not recovered from my own mother telling me it was my fault because I "chose" to refuse the vaccine as a kid. Please, for fuck sake, vaccinate your children and yourself if it is approved by your primary care physician to do so. It is not worth the risk of possibly losing your or your child's life, or ending up forever marred by a disease/infection that you could've been safe from like myself. I T I S N O T W O R T H I T
@@martinpachu7125 I was about 10-12 years old and, I agree, it is absurd, but also not unexpected behavior from my mother. She genuinely only put the decision on me because she needed someone to blame after shit inevitably hit the fan.
Unfortunately, it sounds like a few people failed you, which is even worse. Gardasil can be given until a patient’s mid-20s, and any decent doctor will ask a patient in their late teens / early 20s if they want to get it.
YES! As an autistic person I am so grateful that he brought this up! So many people who argue against antivaxx end up tacitly buying into, or at least not refuting, the idea that autism is the worst thing that can happen to anyone. It's disgusting, because even IF vaccines caused autism, I would rather be autistic than get measles. I consider myself a healthy, intelligent, and moral person, and yet people treat me like my very existence is a tragedy, and people (namely Auti$m $peaks) are currently researching how to prevent people like me from being born! It's horrifying to know that there are people who think I'd be better off dead, and that knowledge is a far greater "burden" than any of my autism symptoms.
"Please stop telling me to make my videos shorter" No. Longer. If I haven't died of old age by the time I finish a video on LGBT representation in straight-to-video Transformers movies or whatever, I won't be happy. Better shell out for fiber-optics, bomberman!
I pendulum back and forth so hard. Sometimes I get frustrated that a video is under ten minutes and other times I'm mad that a video is under an hour long. These leftTubers cant seem to win with any of us lol
I dont want to think about all the deaths from people with autism and parents who saw these conspiracies as an answer to there problems coming from someone with autism
@@FaCiSmFTW Like a lot of what he says, its in some weird convoluted way based in truth, but he's twisting the hell out of it to sell you "brain force" or whatever
@@zRhid Yeah for sure. It's always a good idea to research independently even though it might take a long time. That goes for the v thing as well don't just watch this video, read about what dissenting doctors have to say rather than fearful mothers.
I think one of the worst things about Wakefield's "I took blood from my kids friends at their birthday party" is that it got *laughs* at whatever conference he was at. People heard this man admit that he bribed his children's friends to take their blood and thought "yes, haha, this is not concerning at all and is in fact quite funny". I legitimately can not believe that reaction.
Yeah exactly like he said that one fucking fainted like what the fuck? How much do you have to hate children to find that funny and not utterly terrifying. That's something you'd expect to come out of the mouth of a fucking SS officer not a ex-doctor.
Did they believe him at first? I would laugh thinking it was odd medical humor. Or that he was making it sound weird on purpose for comedic effect. If they did believe him, the laughter might have been uncomfortable, uneasy laughs. If not, then that's an issue. 😬
I just heard the list (colonoscopies and lumbar punctures? Lumbar punctures!! Why tf encephilograms?!?! I fear the sedation was a kindness to them despite the scary disorientation it would cause) and so I’ve had to pause it while I process all that horror so now I’m here scrolling the comments
The fact that this video only has 9.3 million views is a disgrace. Every single person around the world should be forced to watch this, especially anti-vaxxers, and Andrew Wakefield himself. Wakefield should also be in prison. So should Barr. The fact that these men walk free is a gross oversight of justice
Seriously, go read “The Doctor Who Fooled the World” if you get a chance. I did, and there are so many details that didn’t make it into this video. Like, the reason Wakefield settled on measles specifically, rather than any other disease like mumps or rubella? That’s a weird thing to cling to, right? He’s not an epidemiologist or microbiologist. Turns out, he had some pictures of mystery inflammation from people’s guts and literally looked through a textbook of viral infections for the first one that kind of matched the pictures. That’s how he got to measles.
"This isn't skepticism. This is ignorance trying to _sound_ like skepticism." Such a good quote Hbomb. I'm not even joking, more people need to be aware of that.
@@cowmath77 This just sounds like the conspiracy theorist mindset when science doesn't say what they think is true. An excuse that dismisses how science *actually* works, making up scenarios that belies a lack of understanding of the subjects so they can keep their beliefs and never have to question them. "I'm right, it's just being suppressed because science doesn't want to be wrong!"
@cowmath77 Yet science consists of institutions, individuals and countries from all across the world, scrutinizing and criticising each others' work. Are you trying to argue things like vaccines are dangerous, anthropogenic climate change is a lie and stuff like that? Perhaps I misunderstood.
"I'm never putting this much effort into a video again" You say that, but we all know in 6-8 years time, you'll be releasing Horses: A Measured Response, and it will be a 4-hour epic with production values that Hollywood studios would envy.
@@Thecryptidsleepsnot only do the majority of autistic people fare fine despite the open hostility and lack of accommodation by society, people don’t die of measles left and right BECAUSE of vaccinations for decades. If measles were to return to contraction rates it was at 100+ years ago a huge portion of people would be dying around you. You’d know just as many people who died of measles as cancer.
I’m autistic, and I wouldn’t trade it for the world as it’s just part of who I am. I am, however, immensely grateful I’m not dying of measles or polio. Dying of measles and/or polio is actually near the bottom of my personal list of things I’d like to be doing.
I met this teenage girl a few years ago. We used to hang out quite a lot because our dogs were friends. She told me that she had a shit ton of health issues. At the time I was a biology student, so she asked me if I could take a look at her diagnosis and test results and maybe explain them to her, bc her doctor was super vague. So I did, and immediately thought either it was way out of my understanding, or something was off. She had been treated for bacterial infections in the gut since she was a child (but nothing on her test results...) . Her symptoms were things like severe insomnia, fatigue, inability to focus, etc. I started to have a bad feeling about the doc, so I did a little check, and it turned out she had been banned from practicing medicine in France for unethical studies implying children (!!) and moved to my country (Switzerland). She was also linked with Wakefield, either working with him or trying to replicate his "study". I tried to convince my friend to at least get a second opinion, but she was forced to see this doc by her parents, it was a whole mess. It broke my heart to see this girl unable to enjoy her life bc she was so sleep deprived she couldn't function for days and denied proper care. It makes me mad to see that dipsh*t Wakefield rolling in money while kids get their life stolen from them bc of him and his legacy.
"Doctor who did a lot of stolen drugs announces he's cured autism" sounds like an Onion headline. EDIT: as people have pointed out, the subheading would be "Claims his bone marrow is the magic fix-it to developmental disorder, illegal tests done on children show promising results."
I feel like media coverage of scientific studies really perpetuates this; they’ll hear “study showed potential correlation between A and B” and then all the headlines are ACCORDING TO NEW STUDY COFFEE PREVENTS CANCER
@@juliebogen1797 100% correct. science journalism in the popular press has been handled TERRIBLY for quite literally as long as science journalism has existed. You'd think they would have learned to be more responsible by now, but you'd be wrong.
As someone who was diagnosed with autism pretty early in life, I really appreciate the "How Not To Talk About Autism" (33:03) conversation. Often times when people talk about whether vaccines cause autism, they'll debate heavily over the vaccines and the science of it, but they almost always forget to actually address the topic of autism itself. The amount of blatant discrimination, ignorance, and frankly hatred that many autistic or otherwise neurodivergent people have to deal with throughout our lives is often just swept under the rug, and I really appreciate that Hbomb actually talks about what this debate on vaccines says about what people think of autism and the people diagnosed with it. "Autistic people have to navigate a world that refuses to accommodate them in the slightest, to the point that they're regularly confronted with the idea other people think their brain has 'gone out'." specifically really got to me, because that sums up my personal experience with ignorant and ableist people and systems throughout my life. Really long winded comment I know, but I just wanted to express that I really appreciate this angle to the conversation
As an autistic person, something that's looked over is that to the non-autistic eye: autism is scary. Many of us can't talk, our non-verbal communication takes years to learn and decipher, we become very distressed over seemingly minor things due to our different perception. But parents who are tired/scared don't deserve to be taken advantage of: they need to be educated that autism isn't life-threatening, autistic people can work on skills and improve, autistic people have many talents and are perceptive, but most importantly: measles is scarier than autism. Autistic children and their parents simply don't deserve to be taken advantage of.
I think us autistic people are a lot like spiders. an average person might be unnerved by us for understandable evolutionary reasons - the spider moves strangely, the autistic person doesn't socially integrate as expected - but ultimately that fear is better off being overcome. we're unlikely to actually be dangerous, and if you let us build our little webs and eat our little flies, everyone's lives get that little bit more pleasant (except the flies', I guess). just don't expect the spiders to be able to take a phone call. (sorry if you don't want to be compared to a spider, I know not everyone's cool with that. I just think spiders and analogies are both neat.)
@@PugandOwn"Just don't expect the spiders to be able to take a phone call" As someone with autism, never have I been so offended by something I 100% agree with
@@PugandOwn so what i’m hearing is that, in addition to all the other stuff they’ve got going on down there, there’s a bunch of venomous autistic people running around in Australia.…
I am autistic and i actually find the find the part where parents would rather their kids die of preventable diseases than be even a little like me EVER SO SLIGHTLY INSULTING
My biggest question with this entire movement, this entire quack study, is: "In what world would a parent prefer their child to suffer through horrible sickness and disease, and even death, to being autistic?" Seriously, it's such a big deal that a child must not be autistic, but death is a better option? A lot of my friends, and myself, are autistic and we're doing just fine! People are insane
Unfortunately I’ve seen people online that would rather have a dead kid. One person in this very comment section said “they say it’s better to have an autistic child than a dead child. I disagree. I’d rather have a kid with a good brain than a broken brain.” I mean that’s probably just an edgy teenager craving attention but it shows just how ableist people can be against autistics to the point where they say we have a broken brain.
@@therealmarkzuckerberg Very odd hearing this from someone who owns a site that propagates this stuff, but overall yeah, it's just such a shitty thing to go through for us, especially when we meet these people irl
that's such a selfish mindset for the parents to have too. like, how does *the autistic person* feel? and if a neurodivergent person suffers from depression (chronic or otherwise), often times the root cause is the way they are all treated by society and that their needs aren't being accomodated for. a depression thought like "i hate that my brain is 'broken'" only comes into being because society refuses to accomodate neurodivergent people in need.
I really want to take a moment to appreciate Stacey and Damien, the two parents who admitted they had misidentified the vaccine as the cause of their daughter's autism. They took the time to do their own research, and instead of ascribing to confirmation bias by reading things that only reinforced their beliefs, they actually came to the conclusion that they were wrong. Not only that, but they were willing to admit on TV that they were wrong. Those are some really great parenting qualities. Performing genuine research to raise your child in a better environment, and being willing to admit your faults. It may sound basic, but so many parents do not have those critical traits. They'd rather double down and assert that they are right and everyone else, perhaps even their own child, is wrong. There's a lot of depressing stuff in this story, so I just wanted to focus in on a brief glimpse at some genuinely good people. They do still exist, don't lose hope in humanity.
This really struck me too. Honestly, learning and growing and changing one's opinions is so incredibly rare, and it's even more so to admit publicly that you were wrong and changed your opinion. These people are heroes, and they don't get enough credit.
A friend of mine - born in eastern Europe in the 90s - did not receive a polio vaccine and they did get infected as a toddler. They now use leg braces and sometimes a wheelchair for mobility. They always say, "Everyone thinks it's gone, but I'm one of the unlucky few." It's a very real reminder, for me, that vaccines have an impressive success rate in improving the lives of people everywhere.
As an autistic person, I appreciate the part where you explicitly point out how screwed up it is that the MMR furore depended on people believing autism to be a fate worse than death. I for one very much appreciate not being dead. :)
@@berjanbeen7188 Indeed. So skipping these vaccines not only avoids a non-existent risk of developing autism, but the disease itself can cause disability! Truly we have all set our priorities in proper order. And yes, I am also autistic, and very much wouldn't change it for the world. Had a tetanus booster some years back, didn't know I needed one of those. Glad my doctor keeps up on that stuff.
@@salt7456are you American? Because that could, in theory, mean you’re more likely to recognise an American broadcaster, on an American platform, on an American network.
This is the start of the trend of HBomberguy trying to make an interesting 15 minute long video about something and then realizing that the rabbit hole is fucking MASSIVE
To them, it is. No, I'm not kidding or exaggerating. Especially in America, dying as a result of a belief is as noble as dying for one. You go across the seas to fight and die for the economy? Hero. You get shot in the line of duty from somebody acting in self defense? Hero. You die from a preventable disease because you didn't want to take basic safety precautions at mild inconvenience to you? Hero. Death is fetishized and preferred over even minor inconveniences.
mind shortening that to a reasonable length do I don't fall asleep while reading it? I perfectly understand wanting whats best for your child, but the impression I get from modern anti-vaxx is a complete opposition to vaccines instead of opting for alternative vaxxing schedules
@@arcktangent7947 I'm interested in hearing intelligent rebuttles to my views. Not making bitesized and easily digestable chunks of information for people who won't have anything interesting to say... So no, I won't shorten anything. Because obviously parroting what other people have said already is about as far as you are willing to go.
@@pagatryx5451 since op seems to have the inability to use a text to speech program, I will play devil’s advocate in their stay. The main issue with your argument is that in the video we see examples of people making claims that death is better than autism, which is what most likely sparked the original comment. Also comparing autism to cancer is still not a fair comparison. Cancer has no up sides, it’s a disease through and through and those who have it need help. Autism is simply a different way of thinking, the brain processes stimuli in different ways, not a dehabilitating disease.
@@notpsicoh2107 Yeah, Brain Deer and Joey are heroes, while Tommy's alias while in the medical industry is Dr. Fudenberg. His mother is very proud. Not of him, of course, but in general.
When you were talking about Bill Maher and Larry King, I looked up their dates of birth and couldn't help but notice that Maher was born a year after Salk's polio vaccine was licensed, while King was born over 20 years before. One of these two men witnessed one of the most feared diseases in the country become almost a non-issue practically overnight thanks to vaccines; the other didn't start first grade until the yearly incidence rate had already fallen below 1000.
I can't remember who said it, but the phrase 'Vaccines are a victim of their own success' rings true in what you're saying. Had we all grown up in a world where polio, measles, mumps, rubella, as well as smallpox was killing/permanently harming kids, the anti-vaxx movement would have even more shaky ground to stand on. If only we could glimpse into that past, every one of us, we wouldn't take the miracle of science called vaccines for granted.
You need to understand that all diseases drop entirely due to improved sanitation and hygeine. It's PURE AND TOTAL COINCIDENCE that each disease stops killing people just after a vaccine for it comes out.
You guys aren't going to believe this. But now Andrew Wakefield is now writing and directing Antivax drama films, with his first film called "Protocol 7" having its trailer drop just last week. And the whole premise is so absurd it reeks of desperation.
The only thing I found remotely interesting about the trailer is that it reveals the movie’s screenplay is co-written between Wakefield and Terry Rossio, whose writing credits include Aladdin, Shrek, and all five Pirates of the Caribbean movies. Rossio also tried to claim in 2018 that calling someone anti-vax is as horrendous as calling someone the n-word.
Here's the thing that bugs me (aside from the obvious everything else): I'm autistic, and I'm a med student. As such, I've had many, many professors talk about what a dangerous jackass Wakefield was. And not one of them has *ever* pointed out how fucked up it is that everyone tacitly accepted the premise that autism is worse than death. One of them actually referred to "r*tardation" instead of autism. That crazy 13-15% of the population is there in no small part because the broader culture, including the broader medical culture, quietly agrees that if there was a way to stop people like me from existing, it would be worth it.
I honestly think those ppl don't realize how many ppl who are on the spectrum are in their everyday lives, including many pop culture, historical, and scientific figures.
@@KD-ou2np That doesn't make it alright. Regardless of the level of support needs/disability aids someone needs, they are just as entitled to life as everyone else.
Fascinating @KyleRayner12. I think the atitude towards autism is tradually changing. I hope you haven't sufferered through being misunderstood. I've got a condition like that so I know how it feels to be misunderstood.
Refering to the last sentence: Well, autism is a kind of disability, at least for most people, and idk whats so crazy about suggesting that a world where people arent disabled is a better one. That said i feel like i have to clearify: killing disabled people is really really bad, castrating them is not better, discriminating or treating disabled people worse because of their disability is very wrong and very stupid. I also think there might be arguments in favour of autism that isnt severe enough to significantly lower someones quality of life, but that is a spectrum, and some parts of the spectrum are pretty sh*tty.
My grandma and I used to be very close, she also used to be an anti-vaxer. For as long I could remember shes been into some spiritual woo-woo stuff, and all the 'alternative medicine' things that comes with it. Some of it even helped me (it might have been a placebo effect, but I was an anxious kid, who had a lot of trouble falling asleep and whatever sleep tonic bs it was she gave me helped) and I'm thankful for that. But around the time my younger cousins were born, she got cought up in the whole anti-vax thing. When my 1st cousin was born she initially refused to get the jab (i cant remember what exactly it was for) and so my aunt and uncle said "okay, then you can't see your grandson". That got her ass in gear and she got all the nessecary vaccines. This by no means made her re-think her opinions on vaccines but she knew the family didn't appreciate her views on that, so she would bring it up, atleast not often. I remember meeting one of my grandmas friends once, she was nice, she had two kids, one girl and one boy. This boy had been diagnosed with autism, his parents couldn't afford to give him the help and accomodations he needed. This resulted in almost daily meltdowns, he also had a few other diagnoses for things like excma and a severe gluten intolerance that contributed to the severity of these meltdowns and his sensory issues. Looking back now, althought her autism presented as less 'severe' or she may have been 'higher functioning', I think the girl may have been autistic too, however she had no official diagnosis, which might be becuase many AFAB people with autism and/or adhd can present differently than has been traditionally studed and recorded in AMAB people, but we know that there is a genetic link in many neurodiverse conditions. The previous paragraph isnt just me rambling I think its important backstory/context. Fast forward to late 2021, we live in Australia, Victoria. Back in 2020 and 2021 my state was pretty well known for our many numerous and 'harsh' lockdowns, we'd recently just gotten out of lockdown so me, my mums and my Grandma decided to get lunch together to catch up. Everything was going well, we were wrapping up and the conversation got political. Normaly this would be fine, most of our political views tend to line up and what doesn't usually isn't that big of a deal. But then as we're standing in the car park (it was a pretty rural place with very little traffic so we were perfectly safe) preparing to say our goodbyes, my Nana brings up vaccines. She starts talking about how they cause autism, how she's heard friends and friends of friends talk about how autism ripped their childeren away from them, about how these childeren who had apparently been very outgoing and talkative had suddenly, after recieveing their vaccines, become non verbal, aggressive and withdrawn. About how, autism, quote, "turned their childeren into monsters". I'd seen this youtube video for the first time not long before, so I tired to reason and argue with her using a lot of the evidence and counter-arguements presented here, and I tried be calm, tried to be understanding and patient. But she kept refusing to budge, kept talking about all these 2nd, 3rd or who knows how many hand accounts of anti-vax parents with autistic kids. And the way she talked about these kids. Fuck. Here is this woman, who I've known my whole life to be nothing but kind and compassionate to everyone in her life, who was one of the first people to notice how my ex-step mum treated and talked to me and realise it was abuse. Here she is, talking about these children like they were less than a rabid dog. I knew she wasn't perfect, I knew she had her problems, I knew she was raised during a 'different time'. But to hear my grandma talk about these innocent childeren like that broke my heart. A few months before this argument I was officially diagnosed with ADHD. And by no means am I saying that I have any real understanding of what its like to have autisim. There is a large overlap of symptoms and traits and how they can present between ADHD and Autism, so much so that it is commom for people with autism to be misdiagnosed as having ADHD or for people to even have both. And so, to hear my Nana talk about these kids that I have so much in common with in such a dehumanizing way? it felt like she was talking about me. I know now, that after a certain threshold the anti-vax movement isnt about skeptisism in the government and the medical industry. It's about fear. Not for their childeren as they may lead you to believe, but of them. of this diagnosis that they dont understand, of how their child is different. In the generations before vaccines they'd have called their childeren changelings, Things that were not their childeren, that had taken their place. By the end of the argument I was crying in frustration despreatly trying to make my nan understand that these childerens autism doesnt make them any less deserving of love, it doesn't mean that we shoud be banning vaccines, it just means that we need to adapt and be more prepared to make the nessecary accomodations for these kids. But no matter what I'd say she just couldn't get it. I walked off and got into my mums car. This whole time my mums had been trying to de-escalate the situation and i think they were just in shock by the end of it. They said their goodbyes. see you soon, love yous, etc. I got out of the car for a little bit to give my nana a hug and say goodbye but that was it. I spent almost the whole car ride home crying. Fast forward again to the begining of this year, I'm spending time with my nana and she brings up autism, i'm imediatly prepared to go on the defensive but as she keeps talking i realise, her opinions have changed. she's reassesed her views and done more research, she's talking about poeple with autism like theyre PEOPLE. She's even talking about how she can see it in some of our family members about how SHE might be autistic. I wanted to write this so that anyone else seeing this who has or had relatives or loved ones that were/are antivax that there is hope, it can get better. And I really hope it does for you. I also wanted to write this to show how much this youtube video means to me. That a whole new generation of people are learning about anti-vaxxers and how to deal with them. This video is honestly an educational resource, I think that this video and others like it are important and for them to be here, for free, easy for anyone to access is so insanely important that i dont even have to words left to finish this monolith of a comment in a satisfying way. All I can think of thats left to say is, Thank you hbomberguy for making this video.
I'd just like to corroborate the assertion that kids with autism are often misdiagnosed with ADHD. I was diagnosed with ADHD very early on, by multiple doctors. Then at *20* years old, we did another one for reasons that escape me rn, and the doctor said it was very obvious I didn't just have ADHD but was also autistic I didn't think much of it. My mom was really upset. Not because she has prejudice against autism, but because she *asked every doctor we went to if there was a chance I had autism and they all said no* It bothered her a lot, and the more I think about it, the more it bother *me*
I remember in high school we actually used the Andrew Wakefield study as an example when we learned about correlation and the importance of a good sample size. Props to my year 10 bio teacher for making my class's first exposure to anti-vaxx rhetoric a lesson on why they're wrong.
A lot of people draw that conclusion but I really don't think it's true. These people are so incredibly misinformed that they don't even realise this is the choice they are making. They don't understand that these horrific diseases are so life threatening because (thanks to vaccinations) they have been sheltered from the symptoms and they have been convinced that autism is some debilitating form of brain damage that can ruin their children's lives. These parents believe they are choosing the lesser of two evils and, unfortunately, many of them will only realise they were wrong once it's too late.
Considering the other types of bs the antivax people are usually into, they probably could have claimed that a vax causes homosexuality, socialism or atheism and things would have ended up the same.
not gonna lie, this is definitely me. If I wanted to have children, I would adopt. I don't want to spread my autistic DNA. I would not get them vaccinated. That's why I got a vasectomy, I don't want to spread my DNA or autism to others. I feel like it is the same thing as doing harm to someone, and I can't go for that.
I wish there was better representation, and a better understanding of what autism spectrum disorder is. it’s a neurological developmental disorder, and it affects everyone differently that has it.
I mean it was most likely targeted on one thing specifically to try and keep some fake credibility on the paper because trying to say "oh yea it's linked to a ton of bad things" is a bit less credible than "it causes this one thing that just so happens to have a very bad social stigma around it" but that's just my theory for all I know Wakefield could be an even worse motherf*cker than I thought
As an autistic person I can relate to the link between autism and having irritable bowels which stems from living in a state of perpetual anxiety that comes along with trying to adapt in a society that is largely not neurodivergent-affirming and instead of accepting my differences insists that I "fix" them instead.
Big same from a late-diagnosed autistic person. That and being a lactose-intolerant cheese lover 😂 But yeah, a lot of people on here are commenting that constant anxiety and stress tends to be Not Good for the gut. Who knew.
Aside from whatever Wakefield is spouting, the brain-gut connection is a real thing that's worth looking into. Ever heard of how antibiotics can sometimes cause neurological disorders? There is a huge connection between digestive health and neurological health. Anxiety can indeed cause GI issues, but GI issues can also cause things like anxiety and depression. (Source: I'm autistic and I have GERD, IBS, lactose intolerance, dysautonomia, anxiety, etc.)
@@bananawitchcraft not a *great* source, I believe it's called ad hominem? But I do somewhat agree with the idea that having health issues can cause your mental health to suffer.
The whole "bribing children for their blood" thing is so creepy, stupid, absurd and horribly wrong in every way that it could be an Invader Zim episode.
It reminds me of another quack doctor who conned people into alternatives to treatment who would go to parties and offer people there money for their piss.
Yeah, measles is no joke! While there are definitely kids who are minimally affected, the risk that measles poses is just far too great for these idiots to go about decrying the MMR vaccine. As kids my siblings and I were not vaccinated bc of our antivaxx mum; guess what, we caught scarlet fever, pneumonia, bronchitis, etc at a rate that I learned is not in fact normal when I grew up. Maybe I just have basic human empathy, but autistic children deserve so much better.
i know this is an old video and this will get buried, but i gotta give kudos for the 'artists impression' of the redacted paper leaving the white space to draw on with the red pen over the text!!
@@hbomberguy it's an honour to have a light interaction with you in the youtube comments. you've entertained me for an uncountable number of hours. thanks for all your hard work!
@@sgmmk5 As in no vaccines at all for the unvax group? There was. It was a small sample size back in the 90's of about 25 kids. During the test period. 3 kids from the unvaccinated group died. 2 from tetanus and one from mumps. All of which are vaccine preventable. Larger scale studies have been attempted. But the problem is that far too often; too many parents from the unvaccinated group refuse to abide by the control limitations of the study. Either because they withdraw from it, or because they give their children other treatments that are not part of the study. Thus spoiling the whole research pool. It also doesn't help that because of the political charged nature of the topic: Barely anyone is willing to take part in a blind study. One where participants don't know if they're getting the real McCoy or a placebo. And conserving we're talking ALL vaccines here. That's a big gamble to put on your child.
@@thesilverblack708 No, wrong, there have been several unvax studies within the past decade that showed a significant difference in rates of illness. And you're missing a big part of that equation buddy. That means all the studies that DON'T use no vaccines at all for the unvax group are entirely bunk and prove absolutely nothing. 100%. If these types of studies were on any subject other than vaccines they would never pass the rigors of scientific standard. It's an old, outdated, flawed system of studying a product passed down by corruption. I would comment more but again it would get deleted by corrupt youtube. Stop pretending we are having a civil conversation about apples and oranges that aren't bought and paid for by corrupt companies. Get real buddy.
i'm autistic and i've never laughed harder than as a teen when my parents got a letter from the NHS informing them that i hadn't actually gotten my MMR vaccines as a baby. "oh damn, guess i've gotta get un-diagnosed with the autism then"
@@Weweta look, im autistic. i can very much say that being autistic is not worse than vaccine preventable diseases. collective immunity only works if a majority is getting vaccinated to protect the people who cant
British officials only *act* boring and foppish. If that tickles you, I recommend you watch a couple of hot-button Parliament debates. We have an impressively prim parlance for "this shit's _wack,_ and you're a *_dick"._* It becomes a cultural, linguistic puzzle to figure out how to express a strong (often angry) opinion without resorting to superlatives and overt profanity.
@@sgmmk5 Apart from that they are shown on screen at timecode @1:21:07. So maybe you don't have autism, but based upon that comment alone, I can tell you have an IQ somewhere south of 50, which is technically a disability. Don't suppose you're that kid in the beanie pretending to be autistic shown in several places, are you? I'd love to know more about that guy. If it's you, let me know, thank you!
@@sgmmk5 What was he right about, exactly? You're the only one leaving something out here lmao. It's real obvious why your claims are always vague and backed primarily by emotional pressure
It is such magnificent irony that the guy who started the whole autism antivax movement was the exact kind of 'scientist' that the average antivaxer claims is running the whole healthcare and pharmaceutical industry. (not to say there aren't A LOT of problems with the industry as a whole.)
Not true, antivaxxers have been around for longer than him. This video is wrong and there was a lot of stuff this video left out, I've done alot of research into it and I know more than Hbomberguy.
Don't respond to sgmmk5, he's a troll who has been lying throughout this entire comment section about hbomberguy being wrong and antivaxxers being right. He constantly keeps spewing the same lies that people constantly debunk in this comment section and after that happens and he has utterly humiliated himself, he deletes all of his comments where he tried to prove people wrong and pretends it was RUclips that did it, and then he tries to play the victim and pretend he's being silenced. Pay him zero attention.
@@Seventhplanet538 First of all, I'm not a troll. Nothing I have said are lies actually, I'll debate anyone about the facts. RUclips does delete my comments so stop lying, you saying that I'm wrong about my comments being deleted shows you are a liar as well, not me. I have sources for everything I have said and I know more than anybody about vaccines.
@@jacobgray3112 sgmmk5 is a liar and a troll. He has debated people in this comment section and he has lost. Badly. So then he ends up deleting all of his comments and then plays the victim. It's not RUclips that's deleting them, it's him. Whatever you do, don't respond to him for any reason. Oh, and he also likes his own comments. I forgot about that.
@@Seventhplanet538 No you're wrong. Everything I've said is true, not trolling at all. The fact you hate me so much for saying what is true shows how brainwashed and ignorant you are.
I grew up very Christian and was told that my autism was caused by my parent's sins. For whatever reason, I deserve to be punished for things my parents did. And being told by everyone around me that I am a punishment for my parents was definitely very good for my mental health.
Fuck those people who said that about you. I have an autistic brother but there's no way I would consider him a punishment, or even that he's being punished. It just runs in the family on my dad's side. Becides, to quote Ozzy Osborne: "Why would you want to be normal?"
And without him I never would’ve had the best laugh I’ve had in a while when I found out that his reporting causing Wakefield to sue him led to him having access to the unredacted documents from the infamous ‘study’. Nothing short of glorious
I call it neo skepticism, it's being skeptical for the sake of being skeptical, not to actually find answers about anything. It also often involves blindly believing conspiracy theories, and often involves individuals refusing to actually acknowledge evidence. Pretty much the entire modern internet "skeptic" movement can be described like this
@@phnexOiceI thought the basis of skepticism was asking questions that require too much time and effort to address. Then acting like you're right when your philosophical or political opposition gets pissed off enough to ignore you. You know? Like a six-year-old in math class that insists on being told why 2+2 is 4. And explains that not being given an explanation is tantamount to indoctrination.
@@phnexOice It's like these people never learned that skepticism is a discipline (that requires careful and methodical research, and a reliance on established sources of evidence) and simply took on the colloquial definition of skepticism (i.e. expressing doubt) and thought that'd be enough to claim the prestige of the title of skeptic! Never confuse skepticism for doubt, people.
My sister contracted the measles when she was a toddler. She was too young to be vaccinated. She survived, but then she suffered from measles encephalitis at 9, totally robbing her of her ability to speak and walk. My family and I have had to give her a lot of care since then. I dunno about you, but I think this is far worse than if she had ended up with autism. The fear and anger that my sister expressed as her motor functions deteriorated are memories that I’ll never shake. I would not wish this on anyone or their family. Edit: also, I should probably get a colonoscopy.
I think that the fact that the way you framed measles as the worse implies autism is bad, is another thing you should mentally edit. -autistic person who works with autistic children
The core underlying problem with the study, and with the parents in general, is believing that autism is a horrible thing to happen. It isn’t. It sucks for the neurodivergent. It sucks when I can’t understand people because I can’t think the way they do. But it’s an opportunity for me to develop empathy. To know that just because I don’t understand neurotypical people doesn’t mean I shouldn’t care about their viewpoint. The same is true for them.
Journalism has such a bad reputation sometimes, but there is always that one journalist who actually takes their job seriously and manages to push through all the bullshit like a damn main character of a movie. Godspeed Brian Deer, you absolute madman.
"Journalism has such a bad reputation sometimes" Yeah, and 90% of this video was about how journalism somehow manages to be even worse than its reputation. But Deer is a true Chad. I wish more Deer existed.
@@HomoErectusIsAFunnyName But I think the main issue is lack of nuance. People just paint journalism and media with a broad brush. While true that there is a lot of yellow journalism and it is a problem, this doesn't mean we should overlook what is gotten right.
No, Wakefield was right. I could go on about how vaccines injure and harm tons of kids and how the medical industry is corrupt and always has been. My comments would probably get deleted by corrupt youtube though. Shame.
I just finished watching "Dr. Death" where a surgeon who was crippling and killing his patients but was not stopped because each workplace he moved around to was too scared to say anything bad, as that could lead to very expensive lawsuits....And honestly the guy who said Wakefield was a "fraud and a wanker" is a hero
Mark Pepys had numerous great moments of this. What's even better is that the statement where he made that quote he says that he leveraged the fact that he was the most prominent scientist to work at the Royal Free Hospital in forty years to get a list of twenty-five things he wanted as a precondition for working with them as head of medicine. One of those things was that Wakefield would be removed from the medical department at the Royal Free. "Because I knew he was a wanker and a fraud." According to Pepys the conversation where he confronted Wakefield about his nonsense was great. There was a segment that went something like this - Wakefield: "But we have proved it! We have this paper in Nature which..." Pepys: "Stop. What is this paper? Has it been accepted?" Wakefield: "No" Pepys: "Has it been summitted?' Wakefield: "No." Pepys: "Thank God for that. What did you intend to submit?" Wakefield: "We have ten cases of [x], seven cases of [y]...." Pepys: "Dr. Wakefield, do you understand statistics 101?"
You know what the stupidest part is to me? It is well known in the autistic community that a lot of autistic people have weird gut problems. Like so many of us are lactose intolerant or have IBS or any number of other weird things that make our guts bad. So technically he was like one to the left of looking at an actual problem that could help people if we knew why. If he had studied that and figured out why all of us have funky guts we would have been thrilled could find a way to fix it maybe. But no he decided to be shitty.
Yeah, it's true! I have some sort of gut problem. Someone I know with autism has IBS. It's a thing. But good luck trying to study it now, given what such a study would be associated with.
Id assume it has to do with stress. A well known result of being on the autism spectrum is issues with food. Another issue is people making you eat said food. This would obviously cause stress which would likewise obviously cause intestinal distress
Lactose intolerance isn't a weird problem though, just genetics. Being lactose intolerant is in fact normal, and tolerance is the anomaly, since it was a mutated gene that proved out to be good especially in the prehistoric northern hemisphere.
Did not actually pay attention to this video. got too drunk and sat in a hot shower for the full length trying not to vommy. thank you for keeping me company til i could walk like a living person again
Hi Harry. I was recommended to watch this video by my partner and I am forever thankful I took the time to watch it. I was also one of the children who was wrongfully diagnosed with Autism who's family connected it with the MMR vaccine in the 90's. I was placed in Special Education for over ten years as my family thought that I was displaying "autistic tendencies" shortly after I had taken the MMR vaccine. What wasn't taken into consideration at the time was that, throughout my early years, my Mum was very sick with Breast Cancer to which she succumbed to her illness when I was three years old - the 25th anniversary of her death was a few days ago. Contrary to popular belief, a young child can still exhibit signs of grief from the loss of their parent, or their parents divorcing - whatever the circumstances. My signs of grief materialised into displaying antisocial tendencies and avoiding eye contact. I was provided a Speech & Language Therapist, not so I could talk about the pain of losing a Mum, but so I could articulate words like Apple... Okay then. The attitude I experienced growing up from the school and family members was horrific. I cannot begin to explain the hostility I experienced when I was viewed as someone that was Autistic. I was consistently spoken to in a condescending manner, I was placed into isolation regularly, I was made to feel stupid - the experience was dehumanising. I, too, also "grew out of being autistic" and started integrating myself into social settings and maintaining eye contact. Towards the end of my final year in primary school, a meeting was held with my Dad, along with the teachers and Head Teacher, the local council and the Speech & Language Therapist who were all pushing my Dad to send me to a Special Needs Facility close to Bedale, North Yorkshire. In a turn of events, my Dad fought with them to send me to a traditional Secondary School so I can integrate into a regular setting without specialist assistance as he recognised I was no longer displaying autistic tendencies. It's worth noting that no-one at the school nor the local council or my therapist consulted with me over what I thought would be most suitable for me - my future was dictated by a group of adults. I do not know what my life would have been like if I was sent to that facility. I have a tin-foil hat theory as to why the school and local council was pushing my Dad to send me there, however that story is not relevant. What is interesting, however, is that my Dad to this day continues to hold the rhetoric that the MMR vaccine "set me back by two years" and gave me autistic tendencies and will not consider the reality of my Mum passing away which will have had an influence. From growing older and processing what I experienced, I have since sought professional therapy to deal with the ramifications of what I went through. I do not wish my experience on anyone as it nearly ended my life. Andrew Wakefield and his followers have no indication of the danger they are placing not only vulnerable adults, but vulnerable children in. I am very thankful that you and your team have highlighted the hideous nature of what Wakefield created. I hope my story can influence someone to think twice over the material they consume and question the rhetoric being pushed.
Oh wow I’m so so sorry that you had to deal with all that bs at such a young age. I hope you’re doing much better now, thank you for sharing you experience.
As someone with autism I vaccinate regularly to increase my power.
same 💪
didnt work for me, instead of making me autistic I just got depressed and developed insomnia
We shoot it like heroin 'round these parts
I've been doing it for a decade and I've achieved fully automatic assault autism.
@@optillian4182faaa
The part about child abuse is actually sickening. Wakefield shouldn't have just lost his medical license. He should be in jail for assault and child abuse.
HOW THE HELL IS HE NOT?!?
@@Yuti640because he has money
I think it's not widely known what damages the procedures he conducted can do unless you're a doctor, so it's likely these facts were never made loud enough to get legal action.
Now say the same thing about John Money
@@sigmaritearchlector5869Who is John money?
Wow that Brian Deer documentary sure sounds great, I just wish there was a worse summarized version of it with more factual errors
Hahahahaha
Maybe a pyramid could read it to me. That would be good
Let's watch a million ads along the way!
Yah, and maybe have the narrator voicing over and reiterating the exact words said in that documentary!
I understood that reference.
VERY COOL HIDDEN DETAIL: at 36:32, when hbomb says "in my opinion, andrew wakefield is a lying conman who wanted your money," strangely, a citation appears. if you check his source list, that citation just links directly back to his own youtube channel. i believe he did this to parody wakefield by citing his opinion as proof of his own opinion. great stuff
i think he's citing the time he used the same descriptor for someone else. i can't remember what video it was though, i'll let you know if i find it.
found it. in the pick up artistry video he calls Matt Forney a lying conman who wants your money
Just so you know, it is normal to cite your previous work on a subject. In Wakefield's case the work being cited is utter nonsense, but it is still normal.
Thats meta
@@jimmycoombs1791 oh totally. I'd have thought the same thing if he'd talked about Wakefield in the past but he hasn't
Watching this video 2+ years later and the best joke in the piece being the final line: "I will never put this much effort into researching a video ever again..."
Was scrolling the comments precisely to see if this had been said yet, because, THIS.
Ditto
Glad we’re doing our annual hbomberguy marathon again
oh i kno right? he probably read what 2-3 hours of stuff? who can ever read that much? in this tik tok world nobody can. its impossible. he literally did the impossible. reading and paying attention for more than 20 seconds. how could he do such a thing? you dont get it and neither do it.
thats what makes it such a great joke right? because its super hilarious. i told it at the office xmas party and everybody was on the floor laughing. literally, they were laying and rolling on the floor laughing. i had to check on 1 of them to make sure they could breath because of how amazingly funny that joke is. you have a good sense of humor and arent a moron at all.
@@itchiegames Not really amusing, even though you try hard.
I was born with autism, but I make sure to get all my shots to make sure I'm always running the latest version.
AHAHAH
Same here.
Yeah running on the older vaccines can really affect your concentration and your memory. Always get the latest vaccine.
@Moonlight No, but every time I go to bed it prompts me to go get vaccinated first.
Me waiting outside the vaccine store for the new autism drop
When we got our COVID shots, in school, the three of us, we were sitting there for the required fifteen minutes. We sat there in silence. Suddenly one of us, not me, my friend, turns to me with this shit eating grin on his face. The two of us turn to him. We stare at each other. Still grinning, he says "I can feel my autism getting stronger" and the three of us lose our minds laughing. We are all diagnosed. Life is, if not good, at least okay
Cute slice of life, made me grin. Hope you guys have some fun adventures in life.
This is *extremely* funny. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for that story. It warms my soul 🥹🩷
hehe, thats amazing
LEVEL UP
As a scientist I want to stress just how damning it is that a scientist requested his name not be included on a paper BEFORE it was published. As a PhD candidate publishing papers is THE central part to getting your degree. Even after leaving school the papers you have published are an essential part of your resume in many sectors. In non-Scientist terms it would essentially be the same as saying that having a gap on your resume is better than admitting you worked for X company.
My dad, who is a licensed physician and (in my opinion) a very intelligent man, once described Andrew Wakefield as an "evil fucker".
I don't know why, but in my mind he says that in a British accent
@@VonSnuggles1412 I'm sorry, but it's just not so.
Smart Fella, your dad. Whereas Andrew Wakefield is a Fart Smella
@@petercohen9600 does sound it though
And that's a professional opinion!
Shout out to when HBomb says "I want Brian Deer to be able to track this video coming out on a graph of his book sales" and then in his plagerism video it turns out there was a rather impressive uptick in the book sales after this video came out.
Sometimes dreams do come true.
HBomb? The bloons youtuber?
Hell yeah
@@walukirby nah I think he's talking about that one guy who plays Minecraft or something idk
Deer also promoted this video on his social media.
This is sander and stolen valor from Tommy Tallarico's work on creating the first YT essay.
I love how Wakefield’s new boss was like “You know, Andy, you’re right! This does warrant more looking into! Let’s fund a giant study to check your work!” That’s a real power move
And then Wakefield starts cartoonishly quaking in his boots and gulps
"S-Study? Me no like study!"
Its proper investigation!
@@1Pidds than proceeds to lie more and more to escape and put off the study until it blows up in his face
Actual cartoon character
"Er, look, boss... I already spent 2900 hours at £150 an hour (£435,000 in total) gathering this extremely flimsy fabricated conjecture-as-evidence paper of mine, I really don't want to spend more time producing masses of evidence that will prove me even more wrong than all the negative results I've already gotten. I mean, hey, maybe in ten or fifteen years there will be definitive scientific proof that I'm right. Who knows! Apart from me, I know that there definitely *won't* because I'm a fraud, but still!"
Had a coworker name-drop Wakefield recently (I work in the US so it was a bit weird to hear his name) and start talking about how they were positive he was right about vaccines and autism. I asked them if they knew about the one doctor I heard of, that got caught being paid by a lawyer to push a class-action lawsuit in order to get vaccines approved, and how horrible of a conflict of interest that must be and how we should completely discredit that doctor and anything they did.
The co-worker agreed completely, so I pretended to suddenly remember the doctor's name. Lo and behold, somehow it didn't count for Wakefield. Fucking hypocrites.
I'm sure you're not a hypocrite. So do we wanna talk about the adjutants in the vaccines or are we gonna pretend that the main and only claim is about autism? Which way buddy? Intellectual honesty or the straw man you are so fond of beating?
Kinda funny we wouldn't have to push shots if we didn't let un treated people in to our country. But thats why all the old plagues are breaking out again.
because wakefield is not a doctor.
I guess I'm still a baby, cause I've read this comment a decent amount of times and I keep losing the story in the second paragraph. It sounds like an important one, too.
OMG IT'S BEEN 4 DAYS AND I FINALLY GOT IT! The doctor was Wakefield, and the coworkers were making an exception for him and being biased, which made them hypocrites! Did I do good?!
@@stronautninjatoxicThe poster basically reversed the Wakefield story, making up a fake pro vaccine doctor. The co-worker agreed that this fake doctor was a horrible doctor, but when the poster revealed that Wakefield actually did the exact same thing but against vaccines, the co-worker gave Wakefield a pass. It’s hypocrisy.
My scientific research shows an overwhelming amount of cases where children with autism have contacted sunlight during their childhood. Therefore, sunlight causes autism. Thank you for coming to my show.
Jesus christ that's terrifying, what alternative medicine can I buy to stop that bad thing from happening?
And don't say sunscreen, I know that stuff is full of microchips and gay chemicals!
@@ShitkidOfJamrockbunker
And if that's not an option financially:
Basement
Give this commenter a federal grant!!!
Is that why I sneeze when I walk out of a building and see the sun? I knew it was the tism...
funny enough there's actually a viable theory that the sudden spike in near-sightedness is linked to those people having not seen the sun enough as children.
well that and the sun actually causing, like, skin cancer.
oh and autism, of course /s
To be fair, the risk of Alzheimer's does go up significantly if you are still alive
And dying
@@tanyaharmon6739 Oh god you think that water isn't wet don't you lol
Speaking of which, did you know that dihydrogen monoxide is the most lethal substance on the planet?
Literally 100% of everyone who touches it passes away, it's absolutely insane!
@@utisti4976 yeah I cant belive they let that stuff be in so many food products and drinks
Risk of death is 100% for any human who is alive. The solution must be not to live!
“This is not how a healthy society discusses its people” - this is such a profound yet simple observation. well done mate
I'm just replying so you can see how many likes you got
I'm also replying to see how many likes you got. Hello
Damn this is technically the first of the "documentary about a normal topic turns into this guy fucking sucks" trilogy
Lmao I never made that connection before you're right lmao
Andy, Tommy, and Jimmy: the Avengers of Lying and Making Shit Up for Money and Clout
@@emalaw1329 which one was jimmy?
@@killer_queen4062 Somerton
In all fairness, Andrew Wakefield was already very well known as a con artist and disgusting man. Hbomb didn't really discover anything new about this issue like he did for the other two
The fact that people forgot how bad measles is and decided that autism was somehow the scarier option really speaks to how effective the measles vaccine has been
It's also preying on Parents' worries that their child will be difficult & require more care & support by demonising Autistic people as a whole, treating them like lesser people that can't succeed in life. It's a wholly shameful ideology aimed at discrediting an entire subsection of people, writing them off as unintelligent & difficult leeches that can't contribute to society. It's a supremacist mindset aimed at scapegoating a genetic disorder. The lack of firsthand experience with Measles in the generation of parents that chose to forego the vaccine, as well as medical advancement, helped to upset the pros & cons and flip the narrative to support anti-vaxx sentiment and ingrain a sense of fear of neurological disorders & mental illness in an attempt to erase those disorders from public consciousness to cut social support for those disorders & abandon those that suffer to allow the "exceptional" people to succeed with less competition from those around them that get "unfair" support.
@@Whiteythereaper not true
There is autism and vax injury being called autism.Elon is autistic.
And how stigmatized autism and other disorders are
Brady Bunch aired a episode called ""Is There a Doctor in the House" to dispel the irrational fear of germaphobic lunatics. They explained how measles is very mild for 99% of people. And its nothing to be feared.
it’s so frustrating as an autistic person that people believe that getting a potential deadly disease is better than having autism. having autism can be hard at times, but i’m still a person and i’m not “broken” or “ruined”. autism has largely been villainized, and multiple autism organizations *cough cough autism speaks* have made it way worse.
See also "treatment/management" for most ofd the time that we've had a word for autism has consisted of "How do we make them act "normal"?" rather than "what support can we offer that will help them to live healthy happy lives?"
Well lets be honest. Parents who believe that, shouldn't have children in the first place.
I am autistic myself & I would rather stay as I am than die of a disease that otherwise I would never have gotten
It's not worth the risk at all
As someone w autism, I do feel broken. But I think that’s more of something I need to get over than rooted in truth
It's kind of crazy how one greedy husk of a man can do so much damage.
History in a nutshell
People will believe ANYTHING.
Fancy seeing you here solar sands :)
I like your shades
Capitalism breeds innovation in fighting progress.
One thing I think is fun is that, alongside the whole discussion of 'when do you notice a steadily growing symptom', there's actually _such_ a good reason for this to be correlated with vaccination. Most people don't spend most of their time thinking about health, or _expecting_ symptoms of anything. Then, when you get the vaccination, you're warned that your kid might have a symptom or two over the coming days, and so suddenly you pay much more attention, and notice things which were perhaps already there, but weren't significant enough for you to notice in the first place.
That is such a good point
Wow. You didnt lie. It did in fact, get a whole lot worse.
You know, this is the first comment from a RUclipsr that didn’t already have 1000 likes. Nice channel by the way.
@@diegorincon4673 it's because it was just commented lol
Didn't expect to see you here
@@diegorincon4673 new comment, that”s why
Love your vids man ❤️
My mother is an anti-vaxxer so me and my brothers weren't vaccinated. We all have autism. By applying Wakefields research methods to this, I have concluded that vaccines are able to prevent autism. Can I be paid millions of dollars for my 'research' now, or do I need to publish a book first?
You need to get a publicist too. Regardless of your current profession.
Also a shady lawyer to help finance your work is usually recommended but not required.
You are just as, if not more, credible than Disgraced Doctor Andrew Jeremy Wakefield. I applaud your commitment to science, how much money can I give you to pretend to go do a study about this?
@@ithinkflutterawesome6511 I will gladly accept anywhere between the range of excessive and ludicrous amounts of money in exchange for me doing nothing and saying I did.
@@CabereaWoof Oh my gosh, my aunt is antivax as well, and all of her kids are neurodivergent (two with autism, three with ADHD). I would love to volunteer them for this highly scientific study.
Brian David Gilbert’s narration with varying levels of bad British accents is my favorite thing ever
As soon as I heard it the sound was unmistakable.
OH MY GOD IT IS BDG I CANT BELIEVE THIS
@@KaitlinGaspar They are secretly the same person.
i want to believe that brian's only condition for appearing in this video was that hbomb said that horses aren't real
@@joaoruiz2577, Both Hbomberguy and BDG have joked about having equinophobia in the past. Wether they actually do or not I’m not sure.
I read the article that Hbomb cited about the child who suffered multiple organ failure from a botched colonoscopy and it shows that the situation was even worse.
The article mentions the multi organ failure, specifically liver and kidneys, but also says that he developed stomach ulcers, epilepsy, and a swollen brain.
On top of that, the article was published in 2007. So it looks like it took NINE YEARS for the family to get some kind of justice.
everyone keeps talking about how to "cure" autism or "prevent" autism, but the only time I hear about helping people with autism live our lives it's from people who think we never age beyond 7
Ironically, it's often those people who claim to have a "cure" for Autism that make life with it the hardest.
@Chris Anderson You're a good person.
Me, an autistic 30-year-old: *googles to find some tips on coping with being an autistic adult*
Google: THIS IS WHY YOUR AUTISTIC CHILD DOES THESE THINGS HOW TO HELP YOUR AUTISTIC CHILD YOUR AUTISTIC CHILD NEEDS THIS
Me: please sir, we don't vanish when we hit 18
Google: AUTISTIC C H I L D
Uugh, this makes me so mad. I'm 35, and I can't stop thinking about how much better my life would be if I had help in dealing with basic skills like organization and cleaning and stuff. I don't have the first goddamn idea what I'm doing here, just any help at all and I could actually do something with my life.
@@Lawnie lmao oh my god this is so familiar, I am an adult recently diagnosed with ADHD and it's the same there. I just want some coping tips, not to read an article that might as well be titled 'sorry your kid is broken, here's how to stop it being a problem for you'.
What's fun is when I first started university, I distinctly remember my professor gave us all a handout saying it was a published scientific paper, and our homework was to read it and jot down what things looked good, what things looked bad, and to write a short analysis of the work and what we thought of it. It was Wakefield's paper. The next day our professor pulled it up on her computer with the giant red REDACTED all over it and explained what happened with the paper, and the entire class was about our analysis, understanding good science from bad, and learning how to be more scientifically literate by not just taking what a paper says for granted. I'll always remember that class, it felt empowering and really helped to form who I am as a scientist today.
So I guess that's one good thing Wakefield contributed to the world. But really, I'd rather this just not have ever happened and we learned the same values some other way. I dunno, I thought you might be interested in knowing that.
I wouldn't mind if you shared a few bullet points of what's worth paying attention to.
Awesome idea. Bad science isnt obvious to most people. I really wanted to get into scientific technical writing, I found the prospect of reading and researching a scientific paper in order to make it digestible to the masses very appealing. Then I realized my real job would be sugar-coating problems with scientific research for some board of assholes to read and try to find ways to work around. Which put a huge damper on my dreams lol
@@Mish844 From what I’m familiar with, and what I’ve heard doctors and researchers in general say, this was a textbook case of three big red flags: small sample sizes, a unique and distinct observation, and ulterior motive. Alternative medicine is _riddled_ with these in whatever they’re calling “studies” or collected testimonials these days.
Sounds like a great professor!
@@Mish844 Probably the biggest thing to look at is how the experiment was set up and executed. There should be a clear hypothesis stated and an experiment designed to test that hypothesis without bias. It can be tricky to catch some smaller details but it's important that scientists take great care to ensure that outside factors that may also influence the hypothesis are accounted for (which is also why having a good control group is super important), and a larger double blind study with lots of people is going to yield stronger results than a small study with little experimental data to work with. Obfuscating data results or not being detailed in how you collected your data screams bad science.
Another thing to look out for is a thing called p-hacking. There is a p value in a lot of statistic based studies that is basically an evaluation on if your data supports the hypothesis or not by chance, and really anything over 0.05 (so greater than 5% chance) isn't taken seriously. But some studies will run an experiment and test for a bunch of different things at the same time, and eventually you'll end up with a value that matches something that on paper is statistically significant even though you just threw a bunch of shit at the wall. That's how you get weird bullshit like how eating chocolate makes you lose weight. Essentially, it's fudging data in a way that the system may not initially recognize, but it's easy to spot once you know to look for it.
A study citing really old studies with super outdated claims and data is also a huge red flag. You have to do a lot of extra digging though. A few older references can be fine because a lot of science holds up, but if they are citing a bunch of old weird shit then it's a huge red flag. Looking at the authors that they cite is also a good idea because you can catch some of these batshit crazy people being cited to support a bullshit claim which will hurt the credibility of the citing author and the article they wrote.
Other things like begging the question fallacies can also pop up here and there.
Note that a lot of stuff that is peer reviewed and is published in revered journals are not likely to have much of any of this stuff. You'll find a LOT of this kind of thing in bunk science and journeying away from the world of peer review will create a whole host of red flags similar to this.
1) This isn't a video. That's fucking movie.
2) Brian Deer deserves a medal for exposing this.
Is there a equivalent medal for the "Presidential Medal of Freedom" in the UK?
@@boogiebutters6743 Knighthood for services to journalism or something probably
Hbomberguy has completed his journey from gaming RUclipsr to long-form documentary filmmaker.
@@boogiebutters6743 There's fucktons of them (we have a very complex honours system - peerages, orders of chivalry, medals and so on). But they're handed out to people the Tory government likes, not necessarily people who deserve them. A TERF even got an OBE (Officer of the Order of the British Empire) recently.
@@LordJuzzie petition to turn Brian Deer into Sir Brian Deer
What frustrates me about this whole movement is that it paints autism as some kind of death sentence. People like Wakefield is literally advocating for a kneejerk reaction to neurodivergency with words like “Neuropsychiatric Dysfunction” without an understanding of what it is and that’s really upsetting.
for real, it’s disgusting how many parents would rather have a dead kid than an autistic one
@@snartboy5000 Disgusting? It is utterly disturbing that those people care more about their own world-views than their children and we should prevent those people from having some in the first place since they would be horrible parents!
@@Gaming.Gamer.It's that saying again, "every child deserves a parent, but not every parent deserves a child" or something like that
The way transphobes talk about trans kids now is the way ableists have been talking about autism for decades, like it's a demon that possessed your kid and the child you knew is gone, and your only hope of rescuing them is to be as huge of an asshole as you possibly can to the thing that's wearing your kid's skin. Conversion therapy advocates put me in mind of those old Autism Speaks ads with a scary voiceover saying "I am autism, I'll steal all your happiness and ruin your child" or whatever, playing over footage of kids just chilling.
@@snartboy5000I'm one of them lol
My aunt is a vaccine "skeptic" and constantly brings the Wakefield paper up, I personally like to remind her that no one has EVER shit themselves autistic
"Shit themselves autistic" oh my god
That’s the funniest way to retaliate, I might have to use that
While the bacteria in your gut often can dictate how you feel in your brain (it's actually true, look it up) the bacteria in your gut doesn't dictate how your brain is wired/how you see the world. So while i can kinda see what he was going for, it's still fucking stupid.
Not fun fact: some parents force their autistic kids to drink bleach (or give them bleach enemas) because they think that it's caused by intestinal parasites and they claim the shedded damaged intestinal lining is proof as "it looks like dead parasites! Must be dead parasites, then!". Chlorine dioxide (industrial bleach, often called 'Miracle Mineral Solution' among its proponents), however some other parents also force their autist kids to drink their own urine as autism cure, or some other dangerous chemical.
So while shitting yourself autistic isn't a thing, parents making autist kids shit their guts out (too literally) in an attempt to "cure them" is a thing.
as an autistic person i can say that i'm shitting myself autistic every time i consume dairy so take that
I know this has been said in the video and probably a lot in the comments, but as an autistic person I cannot express enough how absolutely devastating it feels to see real people say that they would rather their child die of a preventable disease than turn out like you.
Isn’t that crazy? Because they don’t want more work. I had an EX who said that if she gave birth to a kid with a disability she’d give it up and I was so shocked by that. I kept asking her year after year and she always said the same, until she said she’d be find with an autistic kid bc she found out she is 😂
@@lindboknifeandtoolGlad they're your ex
@@lindboknifeandtoolgod, that’s terrible. People shouldn’t have kids at all if they aren’t prepared for their kid to be disabled. I’m glad you’re not still with them.
You're insufferable to be around, violent, selfish, mean.... So, yeah.
I once had a """friend""" literally call me DEFORMED for having autism, then get annoyed *at me* for getting offended at the wording. I've also heard someone complain about another person with autism for admittedly shitty behaviour and actually pull a "well... you know, he DID have autism..." and again, was like "Hey, it's true though! I'm not wrong!" when I confronted them over it. This was a one-to-one conversation. He knew I had autism. He said it all anyway. And then there's of course the whole "hahaha that's autistic. Autistic screeching lmaoooo!"
To many people out there, we are indeed a disease to cure, a deformity to erase if possible. You'd be amazed how pervasive that opinion actually is. We're not yet in the mental condition list that is cool to care about, unlike those poor ""socially anxious"" (socially maladjusted) straight white men ;-;
wakefield paper is so easy to debunk it was an exercise in my first year of university
We did it in introductory classes to bio at my uni Lolol
It was used as an example of a conflict of interest in a level (may have even been GCSE) biology, like it’s that obvious
Same
The fact that college kids regularly debunk this is so funny, that's almost enough to debunk it on it's own 😆
Imagine that being your legacy; being debunked as an excercise for students
"Autism comes from the ass," sounds like some kind of 4chan meme, but no that's apparently what the study really implies.
autism is stored in the balls
autism comes from the ass and brother i got the biggest dump truck this side of the mississippi
I mean it was literally a South Park joke - Ass burgers
Did you ever see the South Park episode?
Arse-burgers haha..
@@TheBTJust saw your comment after I made mine. Too funny! Great episode! I love Cartman!
“Autistic people are constantly accommodating to a world that refuses to accommodate to them” truer words have never been said
It's not that we weren't made for this world, but that the world was never made for us...
Remove the word "Autistic" and it sounds equally true, equally profound.
@@murrfeeling No, not really.
A fair chunk of autistic people are super non-accomodating.
As an autistic person, I really have never heard a quote so accurate to my lived experiance.
Incredible how the first American, Tommy Tallarico, created such a fantastic documentary on the MMR scare. Thanks, Tommy.
His mother’s very proud
I thought that was James Somerton?
@@mell7249 James Somerton was the first gay American to talk about Tommy's documentary. Hope this helps.
@@icedlava7063don’t forget, he was also famously held hostage by a group of savage straight women!
@@giac464*straight white women
my mother was one of the people who believed Wakefield (idk if she still does, we don't talk anymore) so when the time came she paid for me to have the MMR in separate doses so I "wouldn't get autism" (around £180) which will never not be funny to me because I was later diagnosed as autistic anyway
lmao this is great. Congrats on your diagnosis btw, I assume you got it late.
Are you me? Because apart from the fact I still talk to my mum, I could have written this word for word. My parents took me to fucking France for the single jabs!
Same here! Only my mum now knows how dumb that was, thank goodness.
She was scared because my brother had just been diagnosed with Autism.
least you actually got vaccinated, rather than the vast majority not getting it at all
fucked up part? I can see that causing someone to believe vaccines in general cause it, and not just when its all at once.
As a child of an anti vax mother, you have saved me, I'm not allowed to go to school because of her, you've wiped away my fear wrapped up in a silly/goody yet serious/stern delivery, thank you so so much
Sorry you have to deal with that.
i really hope you get out of that situation soon ❤️
@mxyzptplk 1 more year minimum just turned 17 :3
@potatogameryt hang in there, and don't underestimate just how much your life could improve once you have some autonomy!
@williammanning5066 I will
Something interesting to me as an autistic person is the fact that anti-vax parents who are terrified of autism rarely seem to even know what autism is. They talk about it like it's a shadow monster lurking in the darkness and waiting to snatch up their kids in the night. For half of them it doesn't even occur to them that autistic adults exist and have lives of their own. Honestly most of them talk about autism solely as a burden on them and not something that their children will have to deal with their entire lives. Their definition of autism boils down to "a bad thing that will happen to me" and not "a condition my child might have". That's weird, isn't it?
it is weird
that kind of solipsistic egoism is very prevalent amongst parents and researchers, unfortunately.
autism is talked about as a bad thing that happens to allistic people
"Autism parents" are the absolute worst. I'm talking specifically about the ones you can find over at Autism Speaks, who are purely evil quacks and just want pity for wasting all their precious time raising "damaged children".
Because they think level 3 autism, not level 1 what you are thinking.
@@zawrator4457 No they're just horrid, selfish people.
Why do so many with autism have weeb profile pictures?
Wakefield was saying that the cause of the autism was a “leaky gut”, meanwhile he was actually puncturing children’s intestines with unsafe colonoscopies. I know it doesn’t matter now, but that sounds related somehow
Yeah especially because he poked so many holes in one kid that the kid was hospitalized in another hospital
Might have something to do with that disease he was trying so hard to invent.
Nah probably just a coincidence
Hans Asperger sent nearly 800 children to their deaths in compliance with the Nazi Aktion T4 eugenics program.
@@dirkmaes3786 Is this the classic "because a literal Nazi did something worse, that makes it okay" argument?
My parents didn't give me the MMR as a child because of the Wakefield effect. I'm still Autistic and I nearly died of Mumps last year
Good you didnt. Parasocial hugs and validation.
@@marocat4749 Thank you friend. sending both back. Am fine now just a bit infertile
@@Bomtoutwood Sorry
It's almost as though Autism Spectrum traits are genetically transmitted. Who knew?
(This post brought to you by "my whole family has Autism" gang)
My mom nearly died of mumps as an adult because of an ineffective booster shot. She still has vivid memories of the experience and it breaks her heart hearing about people who refuse to vaccinate their kids. Glad you got through that and hope your recovery goes well.
Public Service Announcement - I'm a 27 years old woman with no health issues (oh wait), and I took the "go and get a colonoscopy" advice. There were issues, and now I'm getting them every few years. Please follow his advice and get one, even if you think you're too young.
I'm glad you caught all that bad stuff early instead of letting it fester!
Oh yeah, colon cancer is no joke. Preventive is always easier, better, cheaper, and less uncomfortable than treatment. I had skin cancer at 15 and wouldn't have ever known had my mon not insisted I go to the dermatologist. We caught it early enough to remove it without any complications. We go annually now to check in on any other suspiciously shaped moles.
As a Dark Personal Anecdote: My mother asked me as a kid if I "wanted" a specific vaccine, and I obviously said no because I was a child, therefore I did not receive it and forgot about the incident for years. (She asked me because she was mildly anti-vax, too late for that ma'am, I was born autistic, and wanted to have someone to put the blame on in case it caused problems down the line... It wasn't until this year, when I was diagnosed with an infection that was a result of assault, that I discovered I had contracted the exact infection said vaccine would have prevented. It is likely that I will develop at least one kind of cancer as a result, and still have not recovered from my own mother telling me it was my fault because I "chose" to refuse the vaccine as a kid.
Please, for fuck sake, vaccinate your children and yourself if it is approved by your primary care physician to do so. It is not worth the risk of possibly losing your or your child's life, or ending up forever marred by a disease/infection that you could've been safe from like myself. I T I S N O T W O R T H I T
I am so sorry that these things happened to you, compounding the pain you went through.
Want me to square up with her for you
how old were you?? it seems a little absurd to me to expect your child to be completely informed on every vaccine you need
@@martinpachu7125 I was about 10-12 years old and, I agree, it is absurd, but also not unexpected behavior from my mother. She genuinely only put the decision on me because she needed someone to blame after shit inevitably hit the fan.
Unfortunately, it sounds like a few people failed you, which is even worse.
Gardasil can be given until a patient’s mid-20s, and any decent doctor will ask a patient in their late teens / early 20s if they want to get it.
“This is not how a healthy society discusses its people” is the the single best sentence I’ve heard
YES! As an autistic person I am so grateful that he brought this up! So many people who argue against antivaxx end up tacitly buying into, or at least not refuting, the idea that autism is the worst thing that can happen to anyone. It's disgusting, because even IF vaccines caused autism, I would rather be autistic than get measles. I consider myself a healthy, intelligent, and moral person, and yet people treat me like my very existence is a tragedy, and people (namely Auti$m $peaks) are currently researching how to prevent people like me from being born! It's horrifying to know that there are people who think I'd be better off dead, and that knowledge is a far greater "burden" than any of my autism symptoms.
exactly, and the bullying aimed at people whom are pro-choice & don't want to get an infinite number of booster jabs is nothing short of disgusting.
@@fiddlecastro1453 Did you see the Chinese people being publicly shamed a couple days ago? Legit coming to the West thanks to these real neo- Nazis.
@@nenmaster5218 I want the recommendations (and am autistic).
@@nenmaster5218 It's called hyperbole, my friend.
"Please stop telling me to make my videos shorter"
No. Longer. If I haven't died of old age by the time I finish a video on LGBT representation in straight-to-video Transformers movies or whatever, I won't be happy. Better shell out for fiber-optics, bomberman!
top tier cat mage blep 10/10
That sounds like a Lindsey Ellis video actually lolll
I thought I was alone! Maybe this is my “can watch RUclips at work” privilege but I love a good long video
I pendulum back and forth so hard. Sometimes I get frustrated that a video is under ten minutes and other times I'm mad that a video is under an hour long. These leftTubers cant seem to win with any of us lol
I watch these videos on repeat
I'm neurodivergent and the vaccine-autism shit is honestly so exhausting. the sheer malice and hate for us is just. i don't even have words for that.
I dont want to think about all the deaths from people with autism and parents who saw these conspiracies as an answer to there problems coming from someone with autism
"Bowel Disease from MMR turning the children Autistic" is the prequel to "Chemicals in the water turning the frogs gay" I never wanted.
Read about atrazine and frogs. Jones was actually right about that one
The dumbass extended universe.
The frogs was actually real for once.
@@FaCiSmFTW Like a lot of what he says, its in some weird convoluted way based in truth, but he's twisting the hell out of it to sell you "brain force" or whatever
@@zRhid Yeah for sure. It's always a good idea to research independently even though it might take a long time. That goes for the v thing as well don't just watch this video, read about what dissenting doctors have to say rather than fearful mothers.
I think one of the worst things about Wakefield's "I took blood from my kids friends at their birthday party" is that it got *laughs* at whatever conference he was at. People heard this man admit that he bribed his children's friends to take their blood and thought "yes, haha, this is not concerning at all and is in fact quite funny". I legitimately can not believe that reaction.
I'm surprised it took this long to find a comment similar to yours. That was creepy, why laugh at that.
Yeah, like... malpractice and/or unethical behaviour is hilarious apparently...
Yeah exactly like he said that one fucking fainted like what the fuck? How much do you have to hate children to find that funny and not utterly terrifying. That's something you'd expect to come out of the mouth of a fucking SS officer not a ex-doctor.
Did they believe him at first? I would laugh thinking it was odd medical humor. Or that he was making it sound weird on purpose for comedic effect. If they did believe him, the laughter might have been uncomfortable, uneasy laughs. If not, then that's an issue. 😬
I normally don't get physical reactions at this kind of things, and even Wakefield's acts just caused me indignation. But the laughs were nauseating.
God, that section on what Wakefield did to those kids was fucking sickening.
God, I'm almost in tears. What a genuine monster
Yeah, it made me cry
I just heard the list (colonoscopies and lumbar punctures? Lumbar punctures!! Why tf encephilograms?!?! I fear the sedation was a kindness to them despite the scary disorientation it would cause) and so I’ve had to pause it while I process all that horror so now I’m here scrolling the comments
@@electricbluetiramisu3713 I can't get over fucking lumbar punctures... On five year olds! WITHOUT INFORMED CONSENT!? It's reprehensible...
I literally felt faint at that part, I can't imagine a kid having to go through that. Actually a good thing that his sample size was so small.
The fact that this video only has 9.3 million views is a disgrace. Every single person around the world should be forced to watch this, especially anti-vaxxers, and Andrew Wakefield himself. Wakefield should also be in prison. So should Barr. The fact that these men walk free is a gross oversight of justice
Brian Deer is such a fucking hero, holy shit.
No kidding, dude makes me want to be a journalist
Seriously, go read “The Doctor Who Fooled the World” if you get a chance. I did, and there are so many details that didn’t make it into this video. Like, the reason Wakefield settled on measles specifically, rather than any other disease like mumps or rubella? That’s a weird thing to cling to, right? He’s not an epidemiologist or microbiologist.
Turns out, he had some pictures of mystery inflammation from people’s guts and literally looked through a textbook of viral infections for the first one that kind of matched the pictures. That’s how he got to measles.
That's wild @@gizoginjr
"This isn't skepticism. This is ignorance trying to _sound_ like skepticism."
Such a good quote Hbomb. I'm not even joking, more people need to be aware of that.
This is one of the biggest problems we face in today's world.
That's why the climate "skeptics" are not real skeptics. They are just denialists.
@@cowmath77 This just sounds like the conspiracy theorist mindset when science doesn't say what they think is true. An excuse that dismisses how science *actually* works, making up scenarios that belies a lack of understanding of the subjects so they can keep their beliefs and never have to question them.
"I'm right, it's just being suppressed because science doesn't want to be wrong!"
@cowmath77 Yet science consists of institutions, individuals and countries from all across the world, scrutinizing and criticising each others' work. Are you trying to argue things like vaccines are dangerous, anthropogenic climate change is a lie and stuff like that? Perhaps I misunderstood.
@@cowmath77 I guess the way I should word it is; do you think scientific consensus is a lie?
"I'm never putting this much effort into a video again" You say that, but we all know in 6-8 years time, you'll be releasing Horses: A Measured Response, and it will be a 4-hour epic with production values that Hollywood studios would envy.
Great, now I actually want that 😂
We aren’t going to be here in 6-8 years, come on.
Im holding out for the 30 minute aside on long horses.
We'll be underwater living in Ben's aquaman house fighting seahorses in 6-8 years time.
And we will sit down thinking it's too long and say to ourselves we'll only look at the first five minutes, but we'll watch it in one sitting.
Even if there is a link between MMR Vaccine and Autism, I’d definitely rather have autism than die of measles.
I'm autistic and I'm very glad I'm not dying of measles. 10/10 would recommend
How many people do you think die from measles? Autism is way worse, my man.
@@Thecryptidsleepsnot only do the majority of autistic people fare fine despite the open hostility and lack of accommodation by society, people don’t die of measles left and right BECAUSE of vaccinations for decades. If measles were to return to contraction rates it was at 100+ years ago a huge portion of people would be dying around you. You’d know just as many people who died of measles as cancer.
@@Thecryptidsleepsi don't really think it's much worse, i'm doing alright after all :)
I’m autistic, and I wouldn’t trade it for the world as it’s just part of who I am. I am, however, immensely grateful I’m not dying of measles or polio. Dying of measles and/or polio is actually near the bottom of my personal list of things I’d like to be doing.
I met this teenage girl a few years ago. We used to hang out quite a lot because our dogs were friends. She told me that she had a shit ton of health issues. At the time I was a biology student, so she asked me if I could take a look at her diagnosis and test results and maybe explain them to her, bc her doctor was super vague. So I did, and immediately thought either it was way out of my understanding, or something was off. She had been treated for bacterial infections in the gut since she was a child (but nothing on her test results...) . Her symptoms were things like severe insomnia, fatigue, inability to focus, etc. I started to have a bad feeling about the doc, so I did a little check, and it turned out she had been banned from practicing medicine in France for unethical studies implying children (!!) and moved to my country (Switzerland). She was also linked with Wakefield, either working with him or trying to replicate his "study". I tried to convince my friend to at least get a second opinion, but she was forced to see this doc by her parents, it was a whole mess. It broke my heart to see this girl unable to enjoy her life bc she was so sleep deprived she couldn't function for days and denied proper care. It makes me mad to see that dipsh*t Wakefield rolling in money while kids get their life stolen from them bc of him and his legacy.
This isn’t the same “doctor” behind that Plandemic movie, is it? I thought she had some connection to Wakefield also
@@AmbassadorKat I can't remember her name. I've never seen that movie but I checked the wiki page (good lord). I don't think she was cited.
Omg thats horrific
):< to the Fraud!
I'm studying medicine in Switzerland, so I'd be really interested if that person still practices. Do you remember the name?
"Doctor who did a lot of stolen drugs announces he's cured autism" sounds like an Onion headline.
EDIT: as people have pointed out, the subheading would be "Claims his bone marrow is the magic fix-it to developmental disorder, illegal tests done on children show promising results."
Don't forget the bone marrow thing.
“Drug addict announces his cure to autism”
@@FirstLast-zo9xg "It's my Bones!"
Absolutely brilliant.
Omg the bone marrow thing wasn't a joke he really said it
I learned that correlation ≠ causation in high school. It alarms me that grown adults haven’t learned that yet
They probably thought that their teachers made them cite their sources and do rewrites because they were "mean."
I feel like media coverage of scientific studies really perpetuates this; they’ll hear “study showed potential correlation between A and B” and then all the headlines are ACCORDING TO NEW STUDY COFFEE PREVENTS CANCER
@@juliebogen1797 100% correct. science journalism in the popular press has been handled TERRIBLY for quite literally as long as science journalism has existed. You'd think they would have learned to be more responsible by now, but you'd be wrong.
@@nickbell8353 realistically, they probably didn't have to do anything where they cite sources in the first place.
@@thomasneal9291It's just a matter of for profit behaviour. For profit science journalism wants clicks, not to inform people.
As someone who was diagnosed with autism pretty early in life, I really appreciate the "How Not To Talk About Autism" (33:03) conversation.
Often times when people talk about whether vaccines cause autism, they'll debate heavily over the vaccines and the science of it, but they almost always forget to actually address the topic of autism itself.
The amount of blatant discrimination, ignorance, and frankly hatred that many autistic or otherwise neurodivergent people have to deal with throughout our lives is often just swept under the rug, and I really appreciate that Hbomb actually talks about what this debate on vaccines says about what people think of autism and the people diagnosed with it.
"Autistic people have to navigate a world that refuses to accommodate them in the slightest, to the point that they're regularly confronted with the idea other people think their brain has 'gone out'." specifically really got to me, because that sums up my personal experience with ignorant and ableist people and systems throughout my life.
Really long winded comment I know, but I just wanted to express that I really appreciate this angle to the conversation
As an autistic person, something that's looked over is that to the non-autistic eye: autism is scary. Many of us can't talk, our non-verbal communication takes years to learn and decipher, we become very distressed over seemingly minor things due to our different perception. But parents who are tired/scared don't deserve to be taken advantage of: they need to be educated that autism isn't life-threatening, autistic people can work on skills and improve, autistic people have many talents and are perceptive, but most importantly: measles is scarier than autism. Autistic children and their parents simply don't deserve to be taken advantage of.
I think us autistic people are a lot like spiders. an average person might be unnerved by us for understandable evolutionary reasons - the spider moves strangely, the autistic person doesn't socially integrate as expected - but ultimately that fear is better off being overcome. we're unlikely to actually be dangerous, and if you let us build our little webs and eat our little flies, everyone's lives get that little bit more pleasant (except the flies', I guess). just don't expect the spiders to be able to take a phone call.
(sorry if you don't want to be compared to a spider, I know not everyone's cool with that. I just think spiders and analogies are both neat.)
@@PugandOwn i actually love that analogy :3
@@PugandOwn"Just don't expect the spiders to be able to take a phone call"
As someone with autism, never have I been so offended by something I 100% agree with
@@PugandOwn so what i’m hearing is that, in addition to all the other stuff they’ve got going on down there, there’s a bunch of venomous autistic people running around in Australia.…
@@PugandOwn as an autistic person I agree
As an Australian I disagree strongly
I am autistic and i actually find the find the part where parents would rather their kids die of preventable diseases than be even a little like me EVER SO SLIGHTLY INSULTING
I also have autism and I want to have a chat with them, maybe one that they will never come back from
@@sciencewithfun2052As somoene with high functioning autism,may I come with? I'll bring the bodybag
The fear is of Low functioning autism. Which is understandable, but measles is worse
As you should. It IS insulting.
@driphearts8035 you mean high support autism?
My biggest question with this entire movement, this entire quack study, is: "In what world would a parent prefer their child to suffer through horrible sickness and disease, and even death, to being autistic?" Seriously, it's such a big deal that a child must not be autistic, but death is a better option? A lot of my friends, and myself, are autistic and we're doing just fine! People are insane
Unfortunately I’ve seen people online that would rather have a dead kid. One person in this very comment section said “they say it’s better to have an autistic child than a dead child. I disagree. I’d rather have a kid with a good brain than a broken brain.” I mean that’s probably just an edgy teenager craving attention but it shows just how ableist people can be against autistics to the point where they say we have a broken brain.
@@therealmarkzuckerberg Very odd hearing this from someone who owns a site that propagates this stuff, but overall yeah, it's just such a shitty thing to go through for us, especially when we meet these people irl
@@dr.timelord0483 lol I probably should change my name but good point
Right ?! Parents of the year here for sure.
that's such a selfish mindset for the parents to have too. like, how does *the autistic person* feel?
and if a neurodivergent person suffers from depression (chronic or otherwise), often times the root cause is the way they are all treated by society and that their needs aren't being accomodated for.
a depression thought like "i hate that my brain is 'broken'" only comes into being because society refuses to accomodate neurodivergent people in need.
I really want to take a moment to appreciate Stacey and Damien, the two parents who admitted they had misidentified the vaccine as the cause of their daughter's autism. They took the time to do their own research, and instead of ascribing to confirmation bias by reading things that only reinforced their beliefs, they actually came to the conclusion that they were wrong. Not only that, but they were willing to admit on TV that they were wrong. Those are some really great parenting qualities. Performing genuine research to raise your child in a better environment, and being willing to admit your faults. It may sound basic, but so many parents do not have those critical traits. They'd rather double down and assert that they are right and everyone else, perhaps even their own child, is wrong. There's a lot of depressing stuff in this story, so I just wanted to focus in on a brief glimpse at some genuinely good people. They do still exist, don't lose hope in humanity.
This really struck me too. Honestly, learning and growing and changing one's opinions is so incredibly rare, and it's even more so to admit publicly that you were wrong and changed your opinion. These people are heroes, and they don't get enough credit.
A friend of mine - born in eastern Europe in the 90s - did not receive a polio vaccine and they did get infected as a toddler. They now use leg braces and sometimes a wheelchair for mobility. They always say, "Everyone thinks it's gone, but I'm one of the unlucky few." It's a very real reminder, for me, that vaccines have an impressive success rate in improving the lives of people everywhere.
Yes, Polio did. But not all of them do.
Not to even mention that many people who survive polio seem to recover and then many years later develop those same mobility issues!
@@WolfhammeredIf you didn’t watch the video just say so dude.
@@Wolfhammeredwhat?
As an autistic person, I appreciate the part where you explicitly point out how screwed up it is that the MMR furore depended on people believing autism to be a fate worse than death. I for one very much appreciate not being dead. :)
There's also other possible disabilities and long lasting issues that can arise from these diseases. Such as deafness and blindness
@@berjanbeen7188 Indeed. So skipping these vaccines not only avoids a non-existent risk of developing autism, but the disease itself can cause disability! Truly we have all set our priorities in proper order.
And yes, I am also autistic, and very much wouldn't change it for the world. Had a tetanus booster some years back, didn't know I needed one of those. Glad my doctor keeps up on that stuff.
Agreed
At least the side effect of this is that now every single autistic person is a vocal and very loud supporter of vaccines.
@@hedgehog3180 ooh good point!
"if youre lying, then your book is also lying" is so underrated. good on that reporter.
sometimes you really gotta just say "No I don't believe you cause you're a lying liar that lies"
You mean Anderson cooper? I don’t watch a lot of cnn but I at least know his name.
That's one of the few killer moments from the best TV personality CNN has. I wish he was better.
@@salt7456are you American? Because that could, in theory, mean you’re more likely to recognise an American broadcaster, on an American platform, on an American network.
@@salt7456 I don't watch much CNN either, I just remember he always used to be on whatever channel my parents would put on to celebrate New Year's.
This is the start of the trend of HBomberguy trying to make an interesting 15 minute long video about something and then realizing that the rabbit hole is fucking MASSIVE
Also: “I’m never making a video like this again” was definitely a lie
What rabbit hole
You think he’ll ever get to make that 15 minute video?
or watched a documentary
has he ever made a 15 minute video
What always worried me is that these parents treat the mere existence of autism as a fate worse than death for their children
To them, it is. No, I'm not kidding or exaggerating. Especially in America, dying as a result of a belief is as noble as dying for one.
You go across the seas to fight and die for the economy? Hero. You get shot in the line of duty from somebody acting in self defense? Hero. You die from a preventable disease because you didn't want to take basic safety precautions at mild inconvenience to you? Hero. Death is fetishized and preferred over even minor inconveniences.
@@Voingous reminds me of my favorite quote from Hamilton “all they had to do was die, we should give it a try”
mind shortening that to a reasonable length do I don't fall asleep while reading it?
I perfectly understand wanting whats best for your child, but the impression I get from modern anti-vaxx is a complete opposition to vaccines instead of opting for alternative vaxxing schedules
@@arcktangent7947 I'm interested in hearing intelligent rebuttles to my views. Not making bitesized and easily digestable chunks of information for people who won't have anything interesting to say...
So no, I won't shorten anything. Because obviously parroting what other people have said already is about as far as you are willing to go.
@@pagatryx5451 since op seems to have the inability to use a text to speech program, I will play devil’s advocate in their stay. The main issue with your argument is that in the video we see examples of people making claims that death is better than autism, which is what most likely sparked the original comment. Also comparing autism to cancer is still not a fair comparison. Cancer has no up sides, it’s a disease through and through and those who have it need help. Autism is simply a different way of thinking, the brain processes stimuli in different ways, not a dehabilitating disease.
There is sufficient anxiety, in my own mind, that Tommy Tallarico's mother is proud of him.
hahaahahahahahahaha Fucking underrated comment of the year
Turns out Andrew Wakefield is an alias for JOEY KURAS ITS ALWAYS JOEY
@@theautisticguitarist7560 aw come on don't compare Joey to one of the most evil persons I have ever heard of :(
@@notpsicoh2107 Yeah, Brain Deer and Joey are heroes, while Tommy's alias while in the medical industry is Dr. Fudenberg. His mother is very proud. Not of him, of course, but in general.
Shit this is AMAZING
When you were talking about Bill Maher and Larry King, I looked up their dates of birth and couldn't help but notice that Maher was born a year after Salk's polio vaccine was licensed, while King was born over 20 years before. One of these two men witnessed one of the most feared diseases in the country become almost a non-issue practically overnight thanks to vaccines; the other didn't start first grade until the yearly incidence rate had already fallen below 1000.
I haven't found the clip yet, but can't you just picture King's hard stare as Maher fumbled around trying to sound smart about his ignorance?
That us amazingly fascinating and sad to realize.
@@OfficialROZWBRAZEL I know the face he’d have made and it is definitely not one of sympathy
I can't remember who said it, but the phrase 'Vaccines are a victim of their own success' rings true in what you're saying.
Had we all grown up in a world where polio, measles, mumps, rubella, as well as smallpox was killing/permanently harming kids, the anti-vaxx movement would have even more shaky ground to stand on.
If only we could glimpse into that past, every one of us, we wouldn't take the miracle of science called vaccines for granted.
You need to understand that all diseases drop entirely due to improved sanitation and hygeine. It's PURE AND TOTAL COINCIDENCE that each disease stops killing people just after a vaccine for it comes out.
You guys aren't going to believe this. But now Andrew Wakefield is now writing and directing Antivax drama films, with his first film called "Protocol 7" having its trailer drop just last week. And the whole premise is so absurd it reeks of desperation.
I seriously don’t know why he isn’t in prison.
I just watched that trailer. That movie looks terrible
The only thing I found remotely interesting about the trailer is that it reveals the movie’s screenplay is co-written between Wakefield and Terry Rossio, whose writing credits include Aladdin, Shrek, and all five Pirates of the Caribbean movies.
Rossio also tried to claim in 2018 that calling someone anti-vax is as horrendous as calling someone the n-word.
Here's the thing that bugs me (aside from the obvious everything else): I'm autistic, and I'm a med student. As such, I've had many, many professors talk about what a dangerous jackass Wakefield was. And not one of them has *ever* pointed out how fucked up it is that everyone tacitly accepted the premise that autism is worse than death. One of them actually referred to "r*tardation" instead of autism.
That crazy 13-15% of the population is there in no small part because the broader culture, including the broader medical culture, quietly agrees that if there was a way to stop people like me from existing, it would be worth it.
I honestly think those ppl don't realize how many ppl who are on the spectrum are in their everyday lives, including many pop culture, historical, and scientific figures.
@@KD-ou2np That doesn't make it alright. Regardless of the level of support needs/disability aids someone needs, they are just as entitled to life as everyone else.
Fascinating @KyleRayner12. I think the atitude towards autism is tradually changing. I hope you haven't sufferered through being misunderstood. I've got a condition like that so I know how it feels to be misunderstood.
Refering to the last sentence:
Well, autism is a kind of disability, at least for most people, and idk whats so crazy about suggesting that a world where people arent disabled is a better one. That said i feel like i have to clearify: killing disabled people is really really bad, castrating them is not better, discriminating or treating disabled people worse because of their disability is very wrong and very stupid.
I also think there might be arguments in favour of autism that isnt severe enough to significantly lower someones quality of life, but that is a spectrum, and some parts of the spectrum are pretty sh*tty.
You phrased this very elegantly
My grandma and I used to be very close, she also used to be an anti-vaxer.
For as long I could remember shes been into some spiritual woo-woo stuff, and all the 'alternative medicine' things that comes with it. Some of it even helped me (it might have been a placebo effect, but I was an anxious kid, who had a lot of trouble falling asleep and whatever sleep tonic bs it was she gave me helped) and I'm thankful for that. But around the time my younger cousins were born, she got cought up in the whole anti-vax thing.
When my 1st cousin was born she initially refused to get the jab (i cant remember what exactly it was for) and so my aunt and uncle said "okay, then you can't see your grandson". That got her ass in gear and she got all the nessecary vaccines. This by no means made her re-think her opinions on vaccines but she knew the family didn't appreciate her views on that, so she would bring it up, atleast not often.
I remember meeting one of my grandmas friends once, she was nice, she had two kids, one girl and one boy.
This boy had been diagnosed with autism, his parents couldn't afford to give him the help and accomodations he needed. This resulted in almost daily meltdowns, he also had a few other diagnoses for things like excma and a severe gluten intolerance that contributed to the severity of these meltdowns and his sensory issues. Looking back now, althought her autism presented as less 'severe' or she may have been 'higher functioning', I think the girl may have been autistic too, however she had no official diagnosis, which might be becuase many AFAB people with autism and/or adhd can present differently than has been traditionally studed and recorded in AMAB people, but we know that there is a genetic link in many neurodiverse conditions.
The previous paragraph isnt just me rambling I think its important backstory/context. Fast forward to late 2021, we live in Australia, Victoria. Back in 2020 and 2021 my state was pretty well known for our many numerous and 'harsh' lockdowns, we'd recently just gotten out of lockdown so me, my mums and my Grandma decided to get lunch together to catch up. Everything was going well, we were wrapping up and the conversation got political. Normaly this would be fine, most of our political views tend to line up and what doesn't usually isn't that big of a deal. But then as we're standing in the car park (it was a pretty rural place with very little traffic so we were perfectly safe) preparing to say our goodbyes, my Nana brings up vaccines.
She starts talking about how they cause autism, how she's heard friends and friends of friends talk about how autism ripped their childeren away from them, about how these childeren who had apparently been very outgoing and talkative had suddenly, after recieveing their vaccines, become non verbal, aggressive and withdrawn. About how, autism, quote, "turned their childeren into monsters". I'd seen this youtube video for the first time not long before, so I tired to reason and argue with her using a lot of the evidence and counter-arguements presented here, and I tried be calm, tried to be understanding and patient. But she kept refusing to budge, kept talking about all these 2nd, 3rd or who knows how many hand accounts of anti-vax parents with autistic kids. And the way she talked about these kids. Fuck. Here is this woman, who I've known my whole life to be nothing but kind and compassionate to everyone in her life, who was one of the first people to notice how my ex-step mum treated and talked to me and realise it was abuse. Here she is, talking about these children like they were less than a rabid dog. I knew she wasn't perfect, I knew she had her problems, I knew she was raised during a 'different time'. But to hear my grandma talk about these innocent childeren like that broke my heart.
A few months before this argument I was officially diagnosed with ADHD. And by no means am I saying that I have any real understanding of what its like to have autisim. There is a large overlap of symptoms and traits and how they can present between ADHD and Autism, so much so that it is commom for people with autism to be misdiagnosed as having ADHD or for people to even have both. And so, to hear my Nana talk about these kids that I have so much in common with in such a dehumanizing way? it felt like she was talking about me.
I know now, that after a certain threshold the anti-vax movement isnt about skeptisism in the government and the medical industry. It's about fear. Not for their childeren as they may lead you to believe, but of them. of this diagnosis that they dont understand, of how their child is different. In the generations before vaccines they'd have called their childeren changelings, Things that were not their childeren, that had taken their place.
By the end of the argument I was crying in frustration despreatly trying to make my nan understand that these childerens autism doesnt make them any less deserving of love, it doesn't mean that we shoud be banning vaccines, it just means that we need to adapt and be more prepared to make the nessecary accomodations for these kids. But no matter what I'd say she just couldn't get it. I walked off and got into my mums car. This whole time my mums had been trying to de-escalate the situation and i think they were just in shock by the end of it. They said their goodbyes. see you soon, love yous, etc. I got out of the car for a little bit to give my nana a hug and say goodbye but that was it.
I spent almost the whole car ride home crying.
Fast forward again to the begining of this year, I'm spending time with my nana and she brings up autism, i'm imediatly prepared to go on the defensive but as she keeps talking i realise, her opinions have changed. she's reassesed her views and done more research, she's talking about poeple with autism like theyre PEOPLE. She's even talking about how she can see it in some of our family members about how SHE might be autistic.
I wanted to write this so that anyone else seeing this who has or had relatives or loved ones that were/are antivax that there is hope, it can get better. And I really hope it does for you. I also wanted to write this to show how much this youtube video means to me. That a whole new generation of people are learning about anti-vaxxers and how to deal with them. This video is honestly an educational resource, I think that this video and others like it are important and for them to be here, for free, easy for anyone to access is so insanely important that i dont even have to words left to finish this monolith of a comment in a satisfying way.
All I can think of thats left to say is,
Thank you hbomberguy for making this video.
Fantastic write up 👍 It's really hard to talk to people close to you who have these views. Hopefully a lot of them see reason eventually.
we hear a lot of sad stories about people getting past the antivax event horizon and staying there for the rest of their lives. thank you for sharing
It's uplifting to hear that your grandma came around. Thanks for sharing your story!
I'd just like to corroborate the assertion that kids with autism are often misdiagnosed with ADHD.
I was diagnosed with ADHD very early on, by multiple doctors.
Then at *20* years old, we did another one for reasons that escape me rn, and the doctor said it was very obvious I didn't just have ADHD but was also autistic
I didn't think much of it. My mom was really upset. Not because she has prejudice against autism, but because she *asked every doctor we went to if there was a chance I had autism and they all said no*
It bothered her a lot, and the more I think about it, the more it bother *me*
+
... Fuck, why the hell is Wakefield not given a life sentence for just the things he did to the kids?
Bring back public hangings (not really)
@@Mehow80 Bring back public hangings (yes really)
@@tomd814 I feel this energy so hard.
@@tomd814 Bring back the guillotine!
I hadn't heard of what he put those kids through before. Genuinely shocking
I feel like, as a parent, even if I believed that vaccines caused autism, I would rather have an alive child with autism than a dead child without
I remember in high school we actually used the Andrew Wakefield study as an example when we learned about correlation and the importance of a good sample size. Props to my year 10 bio teacher for making my class's first exposure to anti-vaxx rhetoric a lesson on why they're wrong.
I like that there is still a hole in the wall
What hole?
And now there's two
fancy seeing the Mordhau and Terraria guy here, Hi!
Appearance in one of the holes by a member of the Teeth Gang?
One day aquaman, one day i shall sell my house to you.
what im getting out of the antivax movement is that some parents would rather risk having a dead child than an autistic one :/
A lot of people draw that conclusion but I really don't think it's true. These people are so incredibly misinformed that they don't even realise this is the choice they are making. They don't understand that these horrific diseases are so life threatening because (thanks to vaccinations) they have been sheltered from the symptoms and they have been convinced that autism is some debilitating form of brain damage that can ruin their children's lives. These parents believe they are choosing the lesser of two evils and, unfortunately, many of them will only realise they were wrong once it's too late.
Considering the other types of bs the antivax people are usually into, they probably could have claimed that a vax causes homosexuality, socialism or atheism and things would have ended up the same.
Correct. Sickening isn't it
not gonna lie, this is definitely me. If I wanted to have children, I would adopt. I don't want to spread my autistic DNA. I would not get them vaccinated. That's why I got a vasectomy, I don't want to spread my DNA or autism to others. I feel like it is the same thing as doing harm to someone, and I can't go for that.
Yea almost like the prospect of having an out of control non verbal feral monkey scares some parents
What disturbs me the most about this is it’s specifically targeted towards autism. Not any other disorder or disease, just autism.
I wish there was better representation, and a better understanding of what autism spectrum disorder is. it’s a neurological developmental disorder, and it affects everyone differently that has it.
I mean it was most likely targeted on one thing specifically to try and keep some fake credibility on the paper because trying to say "oh yea it's linked to a ton of bad things" is a bit less credible than "it causes this one thing that just so happens to have a very bad social stigma around it" but that's just my theory for all I know Wakefield could be an even worse motherf*cker than I thought
As an autistic person I can relate to the link between autism and having irritable bowels which stems from living in a state of perpetual anxiety that comes along with trying to adapt in a society that is largely not neurodivergent-affirming and instead of accepting my differences insists that I "fix" them instead.
Big same from a late-diagnosed autistic person. That and being a lactose-intolerant cheese lover 😂 But yeah, a lot of people on here are commenting that constant anxiety and stress tends to be Not Good for the gut. Who knew.
Oh shit 😮
Aside from whatever Wakefield is spouting, the brain-gut connection is a real thing that's worth looking into. Ever heard of how antibiotics can sometimes cause neurological disorders? There is a huge connection between digestive health and neurological health. Anxiety can indeed cause GI issues, but GI issues can also cause things like anxiety and depression. (Source: I'm autistic and I have GERD, IBS, lactose intolerance, dysautonomia, anxiety, etc.)
@@bananawitchcraft not a *great* source, I believe it's called ad hominem? But I do somewhat agree with the idea that having health issues can cause your mental health to suffer.
I would reccomend looking into BCBA therapy, to see if they can help provide you with strategies to help.
The whole "bribing children for their blood" thing is so creepy, stupid, absurd and horribly wrong in every way that it could be an Invader Zim episode.
1:14:15
I wish that was the “The Aristocrats Joke”
AND NOT REALITY
"Perfectly healthy. Such plentiful organs."
“Gir! How will we get all this human blood?”
“...Throw a birthday party!”
It's practically blood libel, but somehow the Qanon antivaxxers missed that admission from Wakefield...
It reminds me of another quack doctor who conned people into alternatives to treatment who would go to parties and offer people there money for their piss.
My dad had measles as a kid, it caused encephalitis and he went deaf. I have autism and I much prefer that to, you know...brain damage.
Yeah, measles is no joke! While there are definitely kids who are minimally affected, the risk that measles poses is just far too great for these idiots to go about decrying the MMR vaccine. As kids my siblings and I were not vaccinated bc of our antivaxx mum; guess what, we caught scarlet fever, pneumonia, bronchitis, etc at a rate that I learned is not in fact normal when I grew up. Maybe I just have basic human empathy, but autistic children deserve so much better.
i know this is an old video and this will get buried, but i gotta give kudos for the 'artists impression' of the redacted paper leaving the white space to draw on with the red pen over the text!!
I'm actually so happy you noticed this, Kat saw this and was like "yes people noticed" thank you haha
@@hbomberguy it's an honour to have a light interaction with you in the youtube comments. you've entertained me for an uncountable number of hours. thanks for all your hard work!
@@hbomberguy Why didn't you talk about how no studies use fully unvaccinated kids?
@@sgmmk5 As in no vaccines at all for the unvax group? There was. It was a small sample size back in the 90's of about 25 kids.
During the test period. 3 kids from the unvaccinated group died. 2 from tetanus and one from mumps. All of which are vaccine preventable.
Larger scale studies have been attempted. But the problem is that far too often; too many parents from the unvaccinated group refuse to abide by the control limitations of the study. Either because they withdraw from it, or because they give their children other treatments that are not part of the study. Thus spoiling the whole research pool.
It also doesn't help that because of the political charged nature of the topic: Barely anyone is willing to take part in a blind study. One where participants don't know if they're getting the real McCoy or a placebo. And conserving we're talking ALL vaccines here. That's a big gamble to put on your child.
@@thesilverblack708 No, wrong, there have been several unvax studies within the past decade that showed a significant difference in rates of illness. And you're missing a big part of that equation buddy. That means all the studies that DON'T use no vaccines at all for the unvax group are entirely bunk and prove absolutely nothing. 100%. If these types of studies were on any subject other than vaccines they would never pass the rigors of scientific standard. It's an old, outdated, flawed system of studying a product passed down by corruption. I would comment more but again it would get deleted by corrupt youtube. Stop pretending we are having a civil conversation about apples and oranges that aren't bought and paid for by corrupt companies. Get real buddy.
i'm autistic and i've never laughed harder than as a teen when my parents got a letter from the NHS informing them that i hadn't actually gotten my MMR vaccines as a baby. "oh damn, guess i've gotta get un-diagnosed with the autism then"
this made me chuckle and it's 4am, what a story
Wow. Thanks for that.
OMG AHAHAHAH
THIS IS PURE GOLD
hahahaha what was their RESPONSE?!??!?!?! XDDDD
"Save the children" MY BROTHER IN CHRIST, would you rather have a kid who likes trains or a kid that died because of measles
@@Weweta look, im autistic. i can very much say that being autistic is not worse than vaccine preventable diseases. collective immunity only works if a majority is getting vaccinated to protect the people who cant
@Weweta Also an important factor is that vaccines don't cause autism.
Mmmm...trains. 🚂 CHOO-CHOO!!
easy choice. i pick the train kid
*insert thomas the tallarico engine joke joke here*
something about a respected scientist calling him "a wanker and a fraud" just tickles me right
British officials only *act* boring and foppish.
If that tickles you, I recommend you watch a couple of hot-button Parliament debates. We have an impressively prim parlance for "this shit's _wack,_ and you're a *_dick"._* It becomes a cultural, linguistic puzzle to figure out how to express a strong (often angry) opinion without resorting to superlatives and overt profanity.
Then I recommend you see the documentaries Vaxxed 1 and 2 which prove he is right. Hbomb liked to leave that part out of the video didn't he?
@@sgmmk5 Apart from that they are shown on screen at timecode @1:21:07.
So maybe you don't have autism, but based upon that comment alone, I can tell you have an IQ somewhere south of 50, which is technically a disability.
Don't suppose you're that kid in the beanie pretending to be autistic shown in several places, are you? I'd love to know more about that guy. If it's you, let me know, thank you!
@@sgmmk5 What was he right about, exactly? You're the only one leaving something out here lmao. It's real obvious why your claims are always vague and backed primarily by emotional pressure
@@sgmmk5just 20 comments, weak.
It is such magnificent irony that the guy who started the whole autism antivax movement was the exact kind of 'scientist' that the average antivaxer claims is running the whole healthcare and pharmaceutical industry. (not to say there aren't A LOT of problems with the industry as a whole.)
Not true, antivaxxers have been around for longer than him. This video is wrong and there was a lot of stuff this video left out, I've done alot of research into it and I know more than Hbomberguy.
Don't respond to sgmmk5, he's a troll who has been lying throughout this entire comment section about hbomberguy being wrong and antivaxxers being right. He constantly keeps spewing the same lies that people constantly debunk in this comment section and after that happens and he has utterly humiliated himself, he deletes all of his comments where he tried to prove people wrong and pretends it was RUclips that did it, and then he tries to play the victim and pretend he's being silenced. Pay him zero attention.
@@Seventhplanet538 First of all, I'm not a troll. Nothing I have said are lies actually, I'll debate anyone about the facts. RUclips does delete my comments so stop lying, you saying that I'm wrong about my comments being deleted shows you are a liar as well, not me. I have sources for everything I have said and I know more than anybody about vaccines.
@@jacobgray3112
sgmmk5 is a liar and a troll. He has debated people in this comment section and he has lost. Badly.
So then he ends up deleting all of his comments and then plays the victim. It's not RUclips that's deleting them, it's him. Whatever you do, don't respond to him for any reason.
Oh, and he also likes his own comments. I forgot about that.
@@Seventhplanet538 No you're wrong. Everything I've said is true, not trolling at all. The fact you hate me so much for saying what is true shows how brainwashed and ignorant you are.
I grew up very Christian and was told that my autism was caused by my parent's sins.
For whatever reason, I deserve to be punished for things my parents did.
And being told by everyone around me that I am a punishment for my parents was definitely very good for my mental health.
I really do not understand shitty people like that. Using religion as an excuse to be a terrible person deserving of hell.
Fuck those people who said that about you. I have an autistic brother but there's no way I would consider him a punishment, or even that he's being punished. It just runs in the family on my dad's side. Becides, to quote Ozzy Osborne: "Why would you want to be normal?"
There are still pastors in the south who are saying that autistic people are possessed by demons.
oh my god, I'm so sorry, that is so cruel.
I’m so sorry to hear that. Keep moving forward, you’re gonna be okay.
brian deer is an unsung hero, jesus christ. i can't imagine how many people would have died without his reporting.
??? He has won awards for his work, he is a very sung hero
@@xZombieJoe not to the common man, I only knew about this great person today.
And without him I never would’ve had the best laugh I’ve had in a while when I found out that his reporting causing Wakefield to sue him led to him having access to the unredacted documents from the infamous ‘study’. Nothing short of glorious
Literally the British Commander Shepard.
Every move he made was satisfying
Anti-vaxxers: "Do your own research!"
The research:
That's why I like to say "googling for 5 minutes does not count as research"
@@meodrac Also, anecdotes don't count as research.
Do your own research needs to come with a manual to do the research. I did it, spent a few days on it and took the vaccine.
@@akpsyche1299 Also also, “Big Pharma wants to brainwash you” is not a valid rebuttal to actual research.
And then they'll be like: "No, not like that"
"This isn't skepticism. This is ignorance masquerading as skepticism."
Mic drop moment.
That’s Bill Maher in a Nutshell
I call it neo skepticism, it's being skeptical for the sake of being skeptical, not to actually find answers about anything. It also often involves blindly believing conspiracy theories, and often involves individuals refusing to actually acknowledge evidence. Pretty much the entire modern internet "skeptic" movement can be described like this
Cynicism
@@phnexOiceI thought the basis of skepticism was asking questions that require too much time and effort to address. Then acting like you're right when your philosophical or political opposition gets pissed off enough to ignore you.
You know? Like a six-year-old in math class that insists on being told why 2+2 is 4. And explains that not being given an explanation is tantamount to indoctrination.
@@phnexOice It's like these people never learned that skepticism is a discipline (that requires careful and methodical research, and a reliance on established sources of evidence) and simply took on the colloquial definition of skepticism (i.e. expressing doubt) and thought that'd be enough to claim the prestige of the title of skeptic!
Never confuse skepticism for doubt, people.
"do you believe autism can be cured?"
"yes"
ah damn. he got us yall. we've just been staying autistic for like no reason
Nahhhh I have a good reason; *we haven't gained access to his marrow yet...* soon... the drill is working away....
@@juniperrodley9843 Slurp that magic bone marrow.
@@juniperrodley9843 EAT THE BONES
BECOME FREE
@@omidm.935 eat the bones
become expensive.
I am wondering how that guy even goes to conferences. Is he not scared someone will drill into his bone marrow to try to 'cure' their child.
My sister contracted the measles when she was a toddler. She was too young to be vaccinated. She survived, but then she suffered from measles encephalitis at 9, totally robbing her of her ability to speak and walk. My family and I have had to give her a lot of care since then.
I dunno about you, but I think this is far worse than if she had ended up with autism. The fear and anger that my sister expressed as her motor functions deteriorated are memories that I’ll never shake. I would not wish this on anyone or their family.
Edit: also, I should probably get a colonoscopy.
I think that the fact that the way you framed measles as the worse implies autism is bad, is another thing you should mentally edit.
-autistic person who works with autistic children
I'm extremely sorry for your family's pain and suffering.
"so she became retarded later than she would've with vaccines"
- probably one of them (they don't know high functioning people exist
@@slevinchannel7589 What sort of drugs are you on mate?
That's horrendous. I hope she is doing as well as can be expected.
The core underlying problem with the study, and with the parents in general, is believing that autism is a horrible thing to happen. It isn’t. It sucks for the neurodivergent. It sucks when I can’t understand people because I can’t think the way they do. But it’s an opportunity for me to develop empathy. To know that just because I don’t understand neurotypical people doesn’t mean I shouldn’t care about their viewpoint. The same is true for them.
Journalism has such a bad reputation sometimes, but there is always that one journalist who actually takes their job seriously and manages to push through all the bullshit like a damn main character of a movie.
Godspeed Brian Deer, you absolute madman.
I would like to see that movie with Brian Deer as the protagonist.
I am still very upset about the 90% of reporters and journalists who just ran with it. It just shows how important science journalism is.
It's such a shame that integrity is apparently so rare in the field when journalism has such a widespread impact.
"Journalism has such a bad reputation sometimes"
Yeah, and 90% of this video was about how journalism somehow manages to be even worse than its reputation. But Deer is a true Chad. I wish more Deer existed.
@@HomoErectusIsAFunnyName But I think the main issue is lack of nuance. People just paint journalism and media with a broad brush. While true that there is a lot of yellow journalism and it is a problem, this doesn't mean we should overlook what is gotten right.
Wakefield went from “hilarious money hungry quack” to “abominable human shaped creature” in like 10 minutes
And it got worse with every minute passed, like with every chapter he would become a worse and worse person.
His Dorian Gray painting is just a ghoul by this point
Even greed can't sufficiently explain this abomination pretending to be a human being.
In for a penny in for pound it seems.
No, Wakefield was right. I could go on about how vaccines injure and harm tons of kids and how the medical industry is corrupt and always has been. My comments would probably get deleted by corrupt youtube though. Shame.
I just finished watching "Dr. Death" where a surgeon who was crippling and killing his patients but was not stopped because each workplace he moved around to was too scared to say anything bad, as that could lead to very expensive lawsuits....And honestly the guy who said Wakefield was a "fraud and a wanker" is a hero
Mark Pepys had numerous great moments of this. What's even better is that the statement where he made that quote he says that he leveraged the fact that he was the most prominent scientist to work at the Royal Free Hospital in forty years to get a list of twenty-five things he wanted as a precondition for working with them as head of medicine. One of those things was that Wakefield would be removed from the medical department at the Royal Free. "Because I knew he was a wanker and a fraud."
According to Pepys the conversation where he confronted Wakefield about his nonsense was great. There was a segment that went something like this -
Wakefield: "But we have proved it! We have this paper in Nature which..."
Pepys: "Stop. What is this paper? Has it been accepted?"
Wakefield: "No"
Pepys: "Has it been summitted?'
Wakefield: "No."
Pepys: "Thank God for that. What did you intend to submit?"
Wakefield: "We have ten cases of [x], seven cases of [y]...."
Pepys: "Dr. Wakefield, do you understand statistics 101?"
@@nenmaster5218 Please do not spam.
There is sufficient anxiety in my mind that my mother is very proud
Thank you, Tojew Talafield
nick wrote this
@@onlykflowno, Joey wrote this. It’s always Joey
"Children's birthday party" and "blood bribe" are two phrases that should never be put together
Children's Birthday Blood Bribes sounds like a sick goth band though
Sounds like something that would happen in a random branch of Freddy Fazbear Pizzeria
Oh this is just scratching the surface of quackery tactics, wait until you hear about piss collecting.
Something something adrenochrome something something Pizza Gate something something WWG1WGA something something other Q nonsense.
That's some Bloodborne shit....
tbh "I didn't ask him to do that, he just sent that to me" describes perfectly BDG's unraveled
Time stamp?
@@tardersauce3578 literally the very end of the end credits
"What a cool guy, that was great" - HBG
@Jared Wiens gracias
You know what the stupidest part is to me? It is well known in the autistic community that a lot of autistic people have weird gut problems. Like so many of us are lactose intolerant or have IBS or any number of other weird things that make our guts bad. So technically he was like one to the left of looking at an actual problem that could help people if we knew why. If he had studied that and figured out why all of us have funky guts we would have been thrilled could find a way to fix it maybe. But no he decided to be shitty.
pun intended?
Yeah, it's true! I have some sort of gut problem. Someone I know with autism has IBS. It's a thing.
But good luck trying to study it now, given what such a study would be associated with.
Yeah, I do find that really bizarre. I myself have Crohn’s Disease and I’m also autistic.
Id assume it has to do with stress. A well known result of being on the autism spectrum is issues with food. Another issue is people making you eat said food. This would obviously cause stress which would likewise obviously cause intestinal distress
Lactose intolerance isn't a weird problem though, just genetics. Being lactose intolerant is in fact normal, and tolerance is the anomaly, since it was a mutated gene that proved out to be good especially in the prehistoric northern hemisphere.
Did not actually pay attention to this video. got too drunk and sat in a hot shower for the full length trying not to vommy. thank you for keeping me company til i could walk like a living person again
im watching again the next morning when im capable of paying attention. this rocks
I hope you'll feel better soon!
Are you okay now?
Hi Harry. I was recommended to watch this video by my partner and I am forever thankful I took the time to watch it.
I was also one of the children who was wrongfully diagnosed with Autism who's family connected it with the MMR vaccine in the 90's.
I was placed in Special Education for over ten years as my family thought that I was displaying "autistic tendencies" shortly after I had taken the MMR vaccine. What wasn't taken into consideration at the time was that, throughout my early years, my Mum was very sick with Breast Cancer to which she succumbed to her illness when I was three years old - the 25th anniversary of her death was a few days ago. Contrary to popular belief, a young child can still exhibit signs of grief from the loss of their parent, or their parents divorcing - whatever the circumstances. My signs of grief materialised into displaying antisocial tendencies and avoiding eye contact. I was provided a Speech & Language Therapist, not so I could talk about the pain of losing a Mum, but so I could articulate words like Apple... Okay then.
The attitude I experienced growing up from the school and family members was horrific. I cannot begin to explain the hostility I experienced when I was viewed as someone that was Autistic. I was consistently spoken to in a condescending manner, I was placed into isolation regularly, I was made to feel stupid - the experience was dehumanising.
I, too, also "grew out of being autistic" and started integrating myself into social settings and maintaining eye contact. Towards the end of my final year in primary school, a meeting was held with my Dad, along with the teachers and Head Teacher, the local council and the Speech & Language Therapist who were all pushing my Dad to send me to a Special Needs Facility close to Bedale, North Yorkshire. In a turn of events, my Dad fought with them to send me to a traditional Secondary School so I can integrate into a regular setting without specialist assistance as he recognised I was no longer displaying autistic tendencies. It's worth noting that no-one at the school nor the local council or my therapist consulted with me over what I thought would be most suitable for me - my future was dictated by a group of adults. I do not know what my life would have been like if I was sent to that facility. I have a tin-foil hat theory as to why the school and local council was pushing my Dad to send me there, however that story is not relevant. What is interesting, however, is that my Dad to this day continues to hold the rhetoric that the MMR vaccine "set me back by two years" and gave me autistic tendencies and will not consider the reality of my Mum passing away which will have had an influence.
From growing older and processing what I experienced, I have since sought professional therapy to deal with the ramifications of what I went through. I do not wish my experience on anyone as it nearly ended my life.
Andrew Wakefield and his followers have no indication of the danger they are placing not only vulnerable adults, but vulnerable children in. I am very thankful that you and your team have highlighted the hideous nature of what Wakefield created. I hope my story can influence someone to think twice over the material they consume and question the rhetoric being pushed.
I feel like people don't see kids and teenagers as people so when they feel things like grief or depression it just gets ignored.
Give this man a medal!
Oh wow I’m so so sorry that you had to deal with all that bs at such a young age. I hope you’re doing much better now, thank you for sharing you experience.
I’m so sorry that this was your reality, and I’m glad that as an adult you’ve gotten professional help to cope with how awful you were treated.
@@Simboiss We get it, you want children to die of Measles, no one cares