*PLEASE NOTICE ME I did not spend a day writing this just to be ignored* I honestly don't know who would read this. it's basically an essay on what I think about tfc ( the fourth closet) Even though tfc is my fav book I am really mad about it and have a lot of things to say about it let's start from the beginning so as we know Elizabeth pretends to be charlie and fool everyone except John and no matter what she says he doesn't believe her now the thing is how didn't he believe her like you are the love interest; if you guys ever read a love story or something and the maine character dies you should know that the love interest would never expect the fact that they died, they would mistake people that looks the that main character as them and they would do anything to bring them or prove that they are alive and still with them. however that's not the case in tfc. John refused to see her. he would do anything to stay away from her (wow John you really do love charlie don't you 😒) and even though her lies are reasonable he still doesn't want to believe it like dude even though you're the love interest you have no right to be like that especially with all the truma she went through so she has the right to completely change. and when they are on a "date" and she asks him why don't you think I am me and him comes out with the dumbest reason ever "you could be Sammy and raised by afton and blah blah blah" no cuz whenever I think about this scene I always imagine like what if this wasn't just Elizabeth pretending to be charlie but is actually "his charlie" and just wants to change 💀 imagine how embarrassing, awkward and heart broken she would be or that whole scene would be lol 💀 ok but all jokes aside the relationship between Elizabeth and John really does show how much John doesn't care or respect Charlie's choices and wants charlie to be what John wants her to be just like you said she is treated like an object in the books. you know the funny part is John says to Elizabeth how did you manage to get undamaged, and it's suppose to be a reason why she isn't the real charlie? but when he and Jessica found charlie at aunt jen's she was also undamaged and he didn't even bother to think about it. another reason why he didn't think she was charlie was because she didn't remember the "I love you" part 😂😂😂 like bro are you serious right now🤦♀️but imagine when "his charlie" didn't remember anything at all like anything not even a bit not even the important things but remembered the "I love you" he was like:😳🤭🤗😚🥰. like bro where is the logic here 😂. there is an important thing that I really want to point out and that is, is Henry actually dead? the reason I am wondering this is because in the first dating scene while not charlie and John arguing about why she isn't charlie and why he think it's actually Sammy and blah blah blah (you know the plot) she says "Sammy is dead " "you took me to see his grave your self" and John respond with "yeah but I didn't see him grave *nor your father's* " now why would he mention Henry they are talking about Sammy and we know Sammy isn't dead and that's why he didn't see his grave so why would he mention him knowing how Scott is this isn't a coincidence and Scott wouldn't bring him up randomly when he isn't the topic especially not on one like this it really hard for me to put in words and explain it but if you think about it it would make sense btw this is just a what if it's not a theory or something but think about it could Henry actually be alive? not mention Henry does sound like someone who would fake his death but why? why would he fake his death? and if I was wrong this still doesn't change the question why did he kill him self especially after creating charlie and leaving her like that Henry done a lot of stupid and selfish choices that I unfortunately can't speak about right now but why would he do that? Henry really is no different from William 😕. here is a quick thing about aunt Jen she really is a good and important character she knew alot but what bother me is she didn't want to open her mouth like woman you are not getting anywhere with all the secrets you are keeping but other than that she was actually good but what a shame such a good character went to waist I really wish we had more time with her. ANYWAY now to the thing that really gets me is how mistreated Elizabeth is like legit nobody cares about her nor her feelings no matter how much she talked about them 😭 and there is absolutely no way Henry or Jen didn't know about the fourth closet charlie being possessed they had to know some how btw we are not going to talk about how John was a bitch to her basically the whole book. anyways when cb was talking to Jessica about her child hood and how bad it was and that she was abused and neglected and have an abandonment issues and how she died at such a young age and that she is possessed she did not care at all she was focused on running away and did not listen to her at all same thing happened with Charlie when Elizabeth told charlie about her child hood and how bad it was and that she was abused and neglected and have an abandonment issues and how she died at such a young age and that she is possessed and all she did not care not even a thought hell she did not even care when Elizabeth told her that Charlie's whole life is a lie and she is a robot all she cares about is Sammy like girl Sammy is alive he doesn't even know you exist and she is still like "BuT sAmMy" and you know what her sellution to stop Elizabeth EVEN AFTER WHAT ELIZABETH TOLD HER ABOUT HER CHILDHOOD!!!! SHE STABBED HER with the same suicide robot Henry made AND SHE TOOK HER SELF WITH HER!!!!!!! my girl obviously never read a book in he life don't you know you should only sacrifice your self ONLY IN THE NECESSARY for example there is a hero the hero needs to stop a nuclear bomb but there is no way to stop it the only way is to fly it up in the space and it explod and the hero die and save the world or the hero let's the bomb explode and kill people so the hero will choose to sacrifice them self here is a better scenario the villain gives the hero a choice which is the hero dies and the love interest stay alive or the love interest dies and the hero lives now in this situation the hero will most likely sacrifice them self basically sacrificing your self is when you don't have a choice or when both options have consequences and as you can see charlie had a lot of options such as talk with Elizabeth and convenience her to snap out of it sure Elizabeth is stubborn and it will take time but it is something and honestly I don't think Elizabeth likes William that much I mean in sister location she thought the Michel is William and she killed him anyway just to escape and also why did she stab Elizabeth like she knew she was possessed why did she do it she even said herself to clay is the twisted once that it is ok to shoot the twisted animatronics scenes they aren't possessed so she knew that destroying a possessed animatronic is definitely not a good idea so why did she do it like it's really pissing me off anyway I think this should be enough there probably is more but those are the important once I doubt anyone made it this far but if you did than thank you so much for reading this you deserve a cake 🎂
I did read this and you brought up a TON of good points. I wasn't really thinking about that aspect of John, but, yeah, that makes him seem genuinely more creepy, and the treatment of Elizabeth/Baby is... actually a lot worse than I originally considered. O.o And Henry doesn't have a grave- so does that mean he faked his death? That's... That's something I wish I noticed before I made my Henry video, lol. I'mma pin you!
@no one you make some compelling points and observations... But i will give John one single sorta a pass... There's a trope in fiction where the love interest knows when someone is their actual interest or not. Like they'd spot a shapeshifter or clone or apparition or illusion etc. Whether logical or not in its application here, I could kinda buy the idea that his love was so true he could feel that this bot babe had a different energy to his bot. Or something, but the book is really clumsy with its delivery and plotting and pacing so... Yeah. They fumbled that. Well, i guess its a partial potential pass anyway
I thought it was so weird because I forgot some hidden context I needed to understand parts 🫤 but on a re read I realized it was just filler between filler then woah DEATH and book ends
Cackling at the image of William Afton, famed inventor and psychopath, driven crazy by the power of ambition and failure, slaving away late at night over a robotic daughter, muttering to himself “I have GOT to get the period cycles right!”
i just find it so interesting that characters who overstayed their welcome (like william) won't go away, but characters who need more development (like charlie) get nothing
I think it's because they're too scared to let go of the characters that made the games famous and start over with something new so they play it safe and stick with what they know.
@@sissysovereign1294 But if William is the only important character the story will fall apart. And I think even he isn't that well written or interesting... He's just overused.
@@sissysovereign1294”They’re too afraid to get rid of popular characters” Too bad the ghost kids don’t get any development, since they’re mildly popular
I really wish they connected her to the Puppet rather than Baby. Like the video suggested, imagine Charlie realizing she was a robot in the 2nd novel and then the 3rd she had to overcome that within herself. Then instead of forcing illusion discs and Baby, you could instead introduce the Puppet and have them work together. Imagine Charlie as we know in the novel and the Puppet (who we know wanted to help the original children) working together to stop Afton once and for all. Then at the end, instead of having Charlie unceremoniously dying, she could help the real Charlie move on and promise to live for the both of them. It's not the best writing, but you could help expand the puppet's story and potentially even allow us to see things from her point of view in a more detailed way.
@@justice8718 That really doesn't scan though. The Baby from the books is introduced so late and has just enough of an attempt to hide that she's still Elizabeth Afton somewhere in there, that it feels less like she's anything to actually do with Charlie and more like she's Henry's anger and Elizabeth's desperate need for her father's love all rolled into one. Charlie herself feels like she might have more in common with Michael Afton, the person digging into Freddy's because of their own past, than the Puppet.
Also, If Charlie is a robot, wouldn't she see metal underneath her arms when she is BLEEDING? Also, also, did she never go to the doctor for a blood test or a hospital or something? Did she never undergo an X-Ray therapy? How was Henry able to simulate monthly periods!? No clue! It's a twist, for the sake of a twist. A better twist would be, that she died, but instead of Being a robot, she is possessing her own body and doesnt know/remember it.
Maybe she was programmed to hallucinate the metal as a normal flesh wound. The best comparison I can make is SOMA where when a human scan is transferred into a robot by the WAU, they hallucinate themselves as still looking like humans to the point of even feeling pain and seeing blood, with the only way to break out of their delusions would be to have some earth shattering revelation come to them (like when Simon realized he was breathing underwater, the illusion was shattered and he saw what his arms actually look like in his new body).
The weirdest part is that Henry had to have designed her to be anatomically correct which has some gross implications for another robot person in the franchise
Also a working digestive system so that charlie could eat and every gross bodily function that involves, and it’d have to be convincing. sweating too, and you’d have to make an AI that is perfectly accurate to the human brain, forgetfulness and all, I guess the short of it is that in order to make a robot that actually is convincingly human, you’d have to make a human and not a robot, a robot person would have to imitate most of the things the ~37 trillion cells of the human body do, And also, she herself would have to be designed to be effected by the hallucinations caused by Illusion discs. And also she’d have to not notice how her changes in size are never gradual. More importantly the same goes for people around her.
The thing is, Charlie as the Puppet could have been so much more than a name drop if they expanded on it past Pizza Sim. Show Charlie sharing the protective nature that the puppet is stated to have. My dream Fazbear Frights story would be one that reads like a shorter version of the Silver Eyes where our protagonist Emily lives with her depressed father and can't remember a few months after her 10th birthday at Fredbears when her friends convince her to join them as they explore a old Freddy's location, when all the haunted withered animatronics turn on and start harassing the group of teens and Emily begins to remember things she never was supposed to know, older models were attracted to noises and would be stunned by bright lights and decides to distract the robots so the others can escape and eventually she backs into a giant prize box and the animatronics chasing her freeze as the music in the pizzeria winds to a halt and the puppet crawls out of rhe prize box and looks down at Emily. Emily begins to remember a second set of memories, less associated with older, faultier mechanics and coding and more personal, a locked door as she bangs on the window of her own party, a car rolling up and a familiar face stepping our, with an unsettling grin. The last thing she remembers as she fades out being the puppet powering down to a halt right next to her. Suddenly she's back in the pizzeria as the Puppet is stroking her head, tears rolling down her cheeks as the Puppet carefully hands her a present box from within its larger one. She hesitantly opens to box to find a mask of the puppet with rosy cheeks and a big ol grin, but lacking its tell tale tear marks, the puppet nods slightly as she slowly brings the mask to her face and as she walks out of the pizzeria the animatronics don't attack her. Why would they, she was one of them, a different breed but one all the same. When Emily ends up back at her house she doesn't even realize she's still wearing the mask until her father takes it off and looks the most energized he has in years. Idk I think it would be a great way to expand upon both the Charlie puppet connection and the way Henry planned the Pizza Sim trap.
Admittedly, that nature stated *is* shown pretty much since FNAF 2... Now what we *NEED* as a plotline is Charlie and Michael tagteaming to body Peepaw Willy like it's fuckin wrestling...
@@higueraft571 Charlie and Michael is a pairing that is surprisingly not that popular. Aside from the obvious duo their fathers were before everything happened, they're two young adults who have been dragged into the traumatic story of Fazbear Co, and are the main reasons their respective fathers descended into madness. They'd probably be best friends at the very least. Someone needs to make a story on that asap.
Charlie is probably my favorite character. You're point about her bring less of a horror protagonist and more of an actual person couldn't be any more true. She's someone who doesn't exist to survive but someone who enters these obstacles to uncover answers. William may be the most interesting but Charlie is someone who triumphs over past. For that, her ending where she was finally able to move on and implied to become an adult honestly made me tear up a little.
What I find funny is that in pizzasim is that the puppet isn’t even given a name. Henry just calls her “My daughter” and goes on with his monologue to be vague and annoying. He says Elizabeth’s name but not his own daughters before throwing a FE style bbq party for the cast. Im half expecting him to have 1. Forgotten his daughters name 2. He has a completely different daughter that isn’t charlie and this it was vague to just get one over on the audience. or 3. Forgot which daughter actually died and didn’t want to show that ^^
Oh god Now I imagine Henry has a family of like 15 kids, and when Charlie died he was like "Oh god, who died? Was it Emmy? Alex? Vegeta Jr Jr?" and his wife and (living) kids are all staring at him with Charlie's body outside
You remember the candy cadet story about the dad adopting a bunch of kids to keep them safe only for someone to break in and kill them? Plot twist that was Henry he didn’t know which of his daughters was the puppet ^^
@@lolopap2593 No, she’s criticizing the series because she’s a fan of the series who wants to discuss the things the series has done wrong, the things it’s done right, and the things it could do to improve.
What a character. One of the moments of all time in The Twisted Ones is definitely when Charlie decides, against everyone actively telling her not to, that the only course of action is to sacrifice herself to them (this being after she figures out that they're killing people who look like her in very painful ways, often leaving them to bleed out in rural areas), and then just does so. And everyone goes 'wow that was stupid but in-line with what she does, let's go have a séance with the old animatronics Clay keeps in his basement'. And yes, in the novel, she doesn't just go there because no one else wants to - she actively decides that these things which kill basically indiscriminately will stop if she offers herself, and does so. Anyways, what you said about not understanding the idea of keeping a character consistent rings true - particularly for the comics. Many people have traits that simply don't line up with the novels themselves, and it just sucks overall. From Blacktime Mangle just being Mangle for no reason, to the random appearance of Shadow Freddy when it was seemingly only ever Freddy in the original novel, to the minor issues like hair and eye color, it just doesn't feel like the artists read the source material... not that I entirely blame them, because concepts are introduced for no reason and things either become a chekov's gun or outright vanish. Charlie's random science project to develop a language learning algorithm? Guess what, now it holds the secret to becoming invisible - despite that _not_ being how sound frequency works at all! Charlie's obsession with a door that she feels has her other half, her twin, locked behind it? Well guess what, it I guess had Baby behind it instead, who is apparently also part Charlie, but _we_ never see that we just see Jen teleport in and get crushed by a collapsing building! And Jen herself, background character who shows up randomly in the ending of TTO - why? Well, who cares when she can show back up, now apparently a recluse who cut contact with Charlie, confess that she knew everything, and then get killed to avoid exposition? Or the weird endoskeleton-with-a-knife that Henry used to kill himself, incomprehensibly - that shows up as a plot device, despite having _no_ reason to. Or perhaps Charlie's early teachings in mechatronics, which, while they make sense to give her some understanding of how dangerous the robots are and how to perhaps stop them or avoid harm by parts of them such as springlocks, didn't need to lead into her following her father's footsteps and becoming an engineer. Then, the parts that don't show back up, such as Arty, who pops up for a while, then vanishes. Or Clay having run for Mayor, which just doesn't end up being relevant. Or the random complex of pizzeria beneath the Emily house - which, I might add, has no foreshadowing nor is it ever referred to again beyond a passing mention once it's left, and it entirely collapses without damaging the surrounding land somehow as well.
@@justice8718 If you mean Golden Freddy, then he's already _in_ the books - he's Michael Brooks, the third Michael in the franchise, and he was a friend of Charlie's group when they were younger before the yellow rabbit caught him. I'm fairly sure Shadow Freddy was, at the time of being introduced in FNaF 2, a reference to the suit used by Afton since Fredbear had no Bonnie counterpart at the time - but it's hard to say for sure. And Afton already basically is a cameo in TTO, since he has like maybe one chapter's worth of direct interactions.
@@ultmateragnarok8376 No. Golden Freddy has multiple people inside of it. That's why it acts so different in the books and games every time we see it. Afton also didn't kill the kids in Save them. That was Spring/shadow Bonnie. He possessed the Springtrap suit long before William got stuck on it. For the character William was arrested for in the MCI in the games, it was Foxy the Pirate. The animatronics couldn't roam during the daytime (Foxy Go Go Go), but suited performers could. The incident about him killing two kids was point in the franchise he did dress up as Spring Bonnie.
@@justice8718..Okay. No indication states that Shadow Bonnie/Springbonnie killed the children. The sprite that killed the children is literally William's sprite, y'know, "The Purple/Sometimes Pink Man"? It's an unbased assumption with no proper evidence. Not trying to hate on you, it's just that it has no proper basis.
@@ManicFiction Springtrap in fnaf2 literally tried to murder William Afton and caused him to panic shutdown the animatronics (which is why William made "fun with Plushtrap"). It was reported that the suit killed other wearers (no matter what safety precisions they've did) and was too dangerous for anyone to be around with in fnaf3 tapes (made before Phone guy's death, fnaf 1, and maybe even fnaf2) that they literally locked it up.
The problem always goes back to "Scott, the main creative lead who's been deciding every story beat since day one, is not a writer." Time and time again, he clearly shows us he doesn't really know how to make a compelling, complete narrative, and I don't think he ever went to a course or seminar after he decided he wanted this series to have a story. I do like the idea of Charlie eventually being integrated into the games as Vanessa's mother, especially if we combine it with Vanny as a regular copycat, no cyber ghost Afton. You can take that combination in a number of really interesting directions! But Scott doesn't know how to construct a cohesive narrative. He can't keep an idea going between games except "Afton is the scariest villain ever you guys, no really." He should have recognized that years before freakin' Security Breach!
Agreed although to give him credit, he has a track record of narrative based RPGs and other games that rely on story pre-fnaf so he does have SOME experience but it's rough.
@@troin3925 not really, the story of desolate hope was much simpler than anything that fnaf has ever not really designed with the purpose of telling a story. The story itself is conveyed through the backgrounds not much in of writing.
In the games, I feel like Charlie should be the puppet, while Sammy is Nightmarionne. I do feel like The Puppet/Lefty should not have been attacking Mike in FFPS, if anything Charlie should have been Mike's ally against William and Baby, cause why would Charlie help her murderer? As for the books. Love Charlie in the first book, but feel like the rest of the trilogy failed her as a character. If this was an alternate universe to the games, just let Charlie be alive(also Jessica should've been her love interest instead of John) Sammy dies and possesses the puppet would work much better than magical tears and Charlie bots. Though I'll be honest, I get this is a different continuity, but I'd rather they didn't replace Crying Child's death with Michael Brooks or ignore the Afton children entirely.
Charlie acts you as lefty because of the animatronics programming, and even if she wasnt trapped by lefty she is VERY defensive and aggresive so i think she would've still attacked Mike
@@PopGoesMyBall Mike supposedly DOES look an awful lot like Dave- er, William. I could see Charlie mistaking Mike's Identity and attacking on sight. After all, his own sister didn't recognize him.
Frankly, I think the trilogy could've had a much better shot at being great if they just used a different protagonist than Charlie after The Silver Eyes, or just gave her less direct involvements. Like, maybe they should've had Carlton take over as the lead in The Twisted Ones and Charlie could've avoided coming back until he got critically injured or something and she goes to visit him, which is when she gets targeted by Afton again. That would've preserved her theme of adapting to her trauma and possibly strengthened Afton's talent for tricking people, even from great distances.
Hearing about the Charlie robot thing from a game theory video gave me the idea for a DnD character, a warforged (basically fantasy robot) made by a master of the craft. Basically she died when she was very young but the father managed to capture the soul before it could fly away. Some time after the mother leaves while the father is doing research to give his daughter a new life through a warforged body as Bell, and using her soul as the energy source for said robot. Before making Bell’s first body, he tested the technology with her dog (who died after the mom left) to make sure it works, and from then on he did the body switching thing over the years, adapting it to become better at whatever Bell aspired to, which became fighting for justice. Despite her body seemingly growing in a few instant bursts rather than naturally, she never found out she was anything other than human, or how her soul box was transferred from body to body, despite her knowing how the technology works, as she learned to build bodies for her robotic dog to use (she is an artificer). The idea is that at some point after she’s got her young adult model and ready for adventure her father goes missing, and his fate would be up to the DM. At that point the only one left who knew the truth about her was the dog, who had seen everything, while Bell would not figure it out on her own, even after travelling for months with no food, feeling the hunger but never starving until she would meet the party if there ever was a campaign, and if she finds ou5 would depend on how the campaign goes. After hearing the actual Charlie robot story from your videos, I think my character idea is a lot more sensible and plausible. Hope I can play Bell some day
I remember the fandom coming up with such a detailed and beautiful story for the puppet. My favorite was that she was the oldest kid to be killed (like 13 or younger) and wanted to protect everyone as she was the second to be killed... The puppet just seems like a waste now especially with the books. Charlie is such a bad character it hurts
They did a really weird thing with her character here. They introduced her brother who I'd honestly never heard of till this moment. And wrote him off. Personally I wouldn't have her being a robot, I wouldn't have her becoming baby. Her brother becomes the puppet. She finds him in the second book but for whatever reason can't stay with him. Maybe the buildings collapsing and John's pulling her out. John and her have a falling out and the 3rd book is her trying to find him again or maybe just helping put him and the other kids to rest. And making up with Jon
"I've been doing sit-ups"-Charlotte Emily, who knows what year. Why did she have to be a robot? No seriously, why? She didn't have to be one, she didn't have to die, she had so much potential, and so much she could have been, and this never had to happen. Even after her mass character assassination, she still remains my favorite character, John didn't have to be a littoral cardboard cutout, and they could have had such a cute relationship, but no, he is a littoral textbook love interest, and boring as all heck,why, why why why why W H Y. And then twisted freddy appears, and just vores her. THATS IT FOLKS- oh and also afton. . .OH NO, SEXY CIRCUS BABY, But don't worry guys, look at how smart John is! He knows it's not her, isn't he a wonderful new protagonist? No, no no no..Why not Carlton? Carlton is better, except not, now, even knowing this robot is a dead child, he thinks she H o t, pedophile moments aside, what have they done to my boy? Also, John Is stupid as hell, his girlfriend is unconscious, barely has a pulse, and also appears to be ill, and when Jessica recommends bringing her to a hospital, HE FCKING SAYS NO, LIKE, JUST NO, HE HAS NO RESON, SHED BE SAFER THERE, JOHN YOU LITTERAL IDIOT, WHY. And then robot shenanigans, blah, blah afton goes die. Why did they do this to my girl, she did not deserve this. She absolutely did not, also, all the times Charlie is showing off how she feels, traumatized, her friends are all like "THaT'S OuR ChARlie!."....Why...why...why :,(
Making a human robot who’s someone managed to dodge every single X-ray her entire life UNKNOWINGLY is crazy. This is one of those ideas that an intern would point out a problem with its logic and get immediately hushed for speaking out of turn
I've never had an x-ray in my life. In fact, more often than not you don't typically get x-rayed unless you've either had a broken bone or needed a Dr. to figure out if you had some kind of infection or not. (Or maybe cancer.) So it's not THAT uncommon of a phenomenon.
Honestly, the idea of Charlie being an android is, by itself, fascinating! But the way it was done was far cry from good. They could have done SO MUCH with it, too! Not to compare sci-fi series with actual coherent plot to FNAF, but WestWorld did all of the twists and then some so brilliantly! The "Character finds out they are a robot and the person they mourned is in fact a reflection of someone else's grief?" Check! The "Androids have two mods: in one they are obvious to their nature and think they are humans?" Check! Human world is changed forever by technological progress? Evil corporations? Characters haunting the narrative FAR more effectively, despite the fact there is no ghosts around? Check, check, check!
Words cannot describe how vindicating this entire video is. It feels like everybody I know blindly likes the Twisted Ones and the Fourth Closet. _AND ESPECIALLY THE FNAF 6 ENDING, THE THING YOU SAID ABOUT HOW MICHAEL SHOULD’VE SAID THE SPEECH IS SO TRUE WHY DOES NOBODY THINK THAT_
Thank you! I'm glad... They like the Fourth Closet? Huh... Well, anyway-. XD Jokes aside, yeah, I don't understand why it wasn't Michael. Like, think about it. If Michael hadn't spoken in Sister Location Custom Night- which was really just an unneeded teaser- they could've had silent protagonist Michael's first and only line be that speech at the end of Pizzeria Simulator. That would've been one heck of a moment.
Just imagine Lefty running into Henry after she realized it's been according to my head cannon 50 years of doing literally nothing with the information he has and the method he used to get the puppet that's the first time Henry would have ever seen his daughter put one (SPECIFIC) finger in the air aimed at his direction
@@notrealnamenotatall2476 You actually impressed me with your unbiased perspective on the whole robot reveal thing, and explaining why it failed, and what it easily could've done. I personally think the puppet should've been the co-star of the later novels though, replacing baby and being an anti-hero instead of an antagonistic evil.
Also, the Twisted Ones having the Charliebot twist and Fourth Closet being about her coming to terms with it seems much better than Charliebot being revealed in TFC.
I saw a review/rewrite of the first three novels a few years ago that had some interesting ideas to go along with the whole "Charlie is a robot" concept. (I don't remember the video I'd have to dig to find it.) But they had a cool idea were Charlie would be followed around by the Puppet throughout the books and she would eventually find out that she is a robot and the real version of her is trapped inside the Puppet animatronic (there was more to that idea but again my memory of it is foggy). I think that could have been a really existential moment for the character and it sucks that it hasn't been done in any of the games or books yet. I really enjoy these videos, even if I don't always agree with some points it's always fun to discuss these stories and what they could have done better and hopefully the movie (or future books) can improve greatly over the older stuff.
Charlie's character is like you make a plain cheese pizza, it's pretty ok, not awful but it's gonna taste good in the end, but the you add a surprise where underneath the cheese with the sauce you hide some spices to add flavor but now you're remembering after it's gone in the oven you don't like spice of any kind but then you still eat it, and you just with every bite realize how much worse it gets realizing more and more flaws with how you made it. This is a great video talking about a sad character decay and now I'm hungry, so this is a great watch.
I think FNAF just is run by people who don’t know how to write anything more than abstract stories. The more fleshed out the stories got, the less they started to make sense. FNAF would have worked best if non of the human characters had names. We kept it as “killer” and the unnamed children could have been numbered. It could have dove deeper into the motive of the killer inside spring trap, and kept an actual feel of mystery.
I agree with someone on Reddit that Micheal should have been in John's place. The horror, realizing his father's a killer, the conflict he and Charlie would feel over the revelations about their fathers, not to mention him having his own life to deal with instead of fawning over Charlie the whole time! It would have made for a far more interesting dynamic instead of John just following her around all the time. I know it wouldn't work with canon timelines (I think he's way older than her??) but these books are already kind of messed up in their connections with the games, so why not change this too?
Dude, I’d love to see a retelling of the Twisted Ones and the Fourth Closet where Charlie finds out she’s a robot and she learns to accept it and move on. Amazing video.
It interested me that Charlie and Baby are kinda half sisters, they could've both been like "Fuck Afton" and then been besties. It at least would've been true to Baby's original hate she had for her father inthe games.
@@MISSWHAT-lp5om In Sister Location, the Funtime animatronics and Baby “thought I was you” as Mike says, basically they thought Mike was actually William. And while you could argue Baby had no idea about this because she initially says “I don’t recognize you”, we know that’s not true because in the Private Room on night 5, Baby tells Mike things that are clearly directed at William while she tries to get into the room and kill him and wear his skin and all that, also the Bidybabs ask if Mike is “the same person” presumably as William. Point is though, Baby thought Mike was William, and what did she do to him? She literally scooped out his insides so he could be puppeted around town lmao.
I remember getting to the part that revels Charlie is a robot and that's when I was like "Nope." I can only suspend my disbelief so much. I can accept sentient killer robots, I can accept illusion disks, SHIT, I CAN ACCEPT THE IDEA OF AGONY AND REMNET, BUT PEOPLE BEING ROBOTS I REFUSE TO ACCEPT!
hey i just wanted to say that as a writer i love your analyses because they tell me exactly what i SHOULDNT😭 do and mistakes to look for when i revise my writing :) for the sake of my future books please don’t stop analyzing narrative anytime soon !! i’m taking notes..
27:20 Well Fnaf 3 canonically takes place in 2023(with Fnaf 6 certainly not taking too long after given Henry Emily would most likely be well into his 80s by 2023)and Security Breach takes place afterwards(might actually be a good few years later). I’ve seen Charlie being listed as 17 in 1995, meaning she most likely was born in 1978, so she’d be 45 during fnaf 3 and presumably near if not past 50 by security breach. She’d still be at a plausible age to be Vanessa’s mother but given she died very young in game canon and is a robot in book canon it would be impossible.
Yeah had Scott decided not to retcon Charlie to be the Puppet she could have easily had a more prevalent role in the games. Maybe she could have taken Henry’s place in Fnaf 6 or something. Hell, come to think of it as I’m writing this, that example could work even if she was the puppet assuming she could pull all the strings(pun intended)from behind the scenes(pretty much like Henry does anyways), and using her “Charlie voice”(obviously a more mature version of it)like Baby uses her “Elizabeth voice” during SL’s Ennard night. So yeah, she had potential, it’s a shame she ended up being sidelined as just another one of Afton’s victims.
You know since the books are a different continuity from the games (to my knowledge) the whole robot Charlie or Charlie not being real or whatever the hell it’s called feels pointless, and since they CLEARLY wanted her to be Puppet have the books be about her rediscover the events of her life before she died like a puppet origin story. I know it’s a cliche to do a story where the main character is dead the whole but if it worked for Michael Afton it could work for Charlie Emily maybe.
I pray to the CEO of fnaf that we get the Puppet to be the main character in an actual story and that she’ll have some relevancy in the movie and won’t just be there as a cameo, if she’ll even be there at all. I quite liked this as an update to the last one. Everything you said was pretty much spot on and I’m very eager for the next vid!
charlie dismantling theodore has to be the harshest part of the book for me, idk why she just feels so... detached? thats her childhood plushie bot, with the voice of her late father, and she like 'yea thats junk'??? and just use it for parts???? also the scene where she lays in bed waiting for twisted freddy feels weird, it just that she has no reason to be there iirc i havent seen the graphic novel, i just read the text-only ones
I remember when I read the first book and I genuinely thought it meant her brother was gonna be the puppet, also that plot about their dead friend who was golden freddy was completely thrown away too
I remember that when it was announced that a fnaf book called the silver eyes would come out I thought it would focus on Gabriel (The soul that possesses Freddy) showing us a bit of the background of the murdered children or how they think and intellect among themselves
Remember when Matpat was talking about is Golden Freddy is possessed by two spirits theory? Well, I think he was a bit wrong. I think he meant that the PUPPET was possessed by two spirits. Here me out, you ever wonder were was Sammy in the games? Well, he could be the new owner of Fazbear Entertainment taking over for his father after the events of fnaf 6, but we don't even here the employees mention him. So my final conclusion is that both Charlie AND Sammy possess the Puppet. Edit: also, another key note, remember when the puppet said that she was very aware and not an animal? Yea she doesn't keep true to her words. I think this is because while Charlie is not an animal, her BROTHER on the other hand well... you get the picture.
Aaighty, that was a great video, really thourough analysis of the character, loved it! Honestly, what I think is the main cause of the issues of the books is that I feel like they were more written to be a way to add more lore elements for the game series. Hard to not turn everything in the book into a plot device when the book itself is supposed to be a plot device. Also, consider this: WHAT IF Henry was a robot and his tears were remnant? It makes absolutely no goddamn sense, it's just a fun thought I had. Oh, just another thing (27:17), about the end of your vid. If we consider Fnaf 3 to be in 2023, and then there's Fnaf 6, and THEN Security Breach, it feels like SB would happen wayy further into the future than 2021 or smthg. But anyways, great video, can't wait for the Twisted Ones Rewrite with your non-AI voice!
Book Henry is pretty much William Afton from the games. They both raised robo-children. Their child (Michael/Charlie) died to unfortunate circumstances that caused William/Henry to rebuild them as robots. Their passion for robotics is abused by their partners. Both are believed to be behind the MCI. The twitching bird Charlie mentions in the novels shows up as a picture in the fnaf4 house, alluding that this bird is also the inspiration for Game William's robotics. Game Henry has none of the talent or ambition as Book Henry. He abuses the puppet with control shocks instead of caring for her and is unable to create convincing human robots (Book Charlie. Game Michael).
Actually, FNAF Silver Eyes is what got me into the franchise. So when I read the book, I was pretty surprised to find how good it was(not great but good enough). I LOVED the characters from the book(mainly Charlie and her friends) and any time I see something relating to them, I click on it(most of the time). However, when I saw and read the other two books... I was disappointed to see what they came up with. They butchered Charlie and her friends, they butchered Afton and the sequels are one of the main reasons to why modern FNAF lore can be so controversial from characters being robot plot devices to vague, confusing and lazy lore than throws logic out the window. I want to see Charlie and her friends again in the future, but done right. No insane plot twist, no out of character moments and no vague lore. Just Charlie and her friends discovering the past, befriending characters from the games, avoiding scary and deadly animatronics and stop Afton.
I still can’t get over the fact that the only black character who was basically the least important person in the story and was meant to be literally just the black guy of the group to make it more diverse was written out after the first book. Marla’s little brother wasn’t in any of the other books because he was a little kid and it wasn’t safe to bring him along on dangerous adventures. But they could have totally added Lamar back and his character was basically like “fuck this shit I’m out” lmao. I also love how they explain his character getting written off as “he’s not coming back” which I think is a stereotype that black ppl have better survival instincts than white ppl in horror media, or I could just be overlooking this (I probably am lmao)
If I were to change the story of the FNAF novels then it would go like this. 1. Micheal Afton is the main protagonist instead of Charlie. 2. The Silver eyes takes place before the FNAF 3 minigames and after the first game. 3. Charlie's friends are still there and help Mike overcome his trauma from the Bite of 83' 4. The Puppet is here and reunites with John in a heart warming way that causes us to cry. 5. Evan is the main antagonist of the novels as he's hunting down Mike for revenge. 6. The twisted ones are replaced by the nightmares as the cover art for the novel is Nightmare himself so it makes sense. 7. The final part of the Fourth Closet is Micheal arriving at Circus Baby's Entertainment and Rentals. That's pretty much about it.
Another brilliant video :) You’re becoming one of my favourite channels when it comes to FNAF stuff because your emphasis in the characters and story of the franchise. You’re doing such a good work on it, you even got me interested in the books. Now, there’s something about the quality of the books that I want to point out. I do think the all over the place writing can be explained with what the covers say… well that an application of Hanlon’s razor: “never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” Though in this case stupidity should be replaced with inexperience. Now, keep in mind I’m talking about personal experience writing fanfic on-and-off for the last 4 years, so this is a rather anecdotal argument. What I think happened was that Scott decided to team up with an experience co-writer, in this case Kira Breed-Wrisley, since this was his first time taking in such a project as writing an entire novel. This make more sense when you consider that the novel probably started to be written roughly at the beginning of 2015, maybe before or after FNAF 3 came out, as we know the disappointment Scott perceived regarding that game let to the development of FNAF 4. This mindset of not wanting to disappoint the community, plus the fact that this was Scott’s first time writing a book would explain why he decided to get a co-writer. Is very likely that during the writing of Silver Eyes Scott heavily relyed on Kira, passing ideas, concepts, outlines for the story and what not, through her for feedback, recommendations, etc. I seen this happen a lot. In a fanfic discord server I’m in, novice writers would constantly ask for help, sharing segments to entire chapters of their fics. Scott probably got more confident after the good reception of the first novel, so he didn’t pass as many things through Kira’s desk. This explains the massive drop in quality between the first and second book and all the weird narrative choices. As to why the third book seems to be a bit better than the second one? Well in many people first fic, specially if it’s a multi chapter fic, you can notice improvements and in writing quality as they write more and more. This leaves to situations were fics feel like they have been written by multiple people. This also tends to result in some considerable re-writes, as in authors going back to to previous chapters and changing them to fit their current standards. If both The Twisted Ones and The Forth Closet were to be re-written I’m pretty sure a bunch of things would be changed if not down right eliminated, considering the illusion disc haven’t being directly mentioned in any game (at best we have details that can be interpreted in some many ways they might be a hint to the discs), I’m 100% certain they would be deleted out of the story. However the biggest reason as to why I don’t think phantom writers were used is because of last year scandal. If there’s any situation where a detail like that could have come to the surface, it was that one. However, I could be wrong. Leaving aside that, is really disappointing what happened to Charlie, both in the games and the books she was completely wasted. Just like most of the characters that aren’t Willy Afton, we have very little inside about her, a mayor character in FNAF story and yet she quickly became almost irrelevant not only in the games, but her own alt-universe centric story… poor girl she deserved better.
Thank you so much! And true, that is very possible. I just couldn't really say because I don't know how much Scott wrote. We're kind of in the dark about that. There was a document that came out last year at some time that said some of the Fazbear Frights books were written by ghost writers, but it disappeared quickly without being proven or disproven. I suppose I was just giving Scott and his side writers the benefit of a doubt. XD But if it is Scott, it would make sense. He does seem to have that issue with barreling into an idea without considering the consequences. Such as killing off the entire cast when he wasn't done with them, I.E. the third coming of ol' Willy. XD
How id rewrite the twisted ones and the fourth closet 1 get rid of them both we don’t need them we’re starting with a new book 2 while she’s gotten over the Freddy’s trauma, Charlie is still hung up on her brother, so the main story is her going to different Freddy’s locations to look for clues on sammy or William. 3 the first twist we get is when Charlie decides to look at her home a little closer she sees Ella and decides to finally take her off her tracks (she’s the one that ends up taking Ella in this version now instead of burke cuz I still don’t know why he even takes it) Charlie sees the illusion disc, not knowing what it is. Then she accidentally toggles the disc, making Ella appear like the child Charlie. Freaked out, Charlie digs deeper and eventually finds out the truth herself instead of the really boring exposition dump we got from baby. 4 Charlie finds sammy. It’s Michael. Not their friend Michael but Michael afton. For this we’ll just change michael’s name in the silver eyes. Anyways, while investigating stuff about William, she stumbles across william’s house, or at least what it used to be. Here Charlie ends up finding like a family photo or something with William and Michael and Michael looks familiar to Charlie. Then while searching the house more she finds an entrance to circus baby’s rentals so you can still have those animatronic scenes. We’ll say this is during the second night, Charlie is about to be chased by biddy babs but then hears a voice call her to the spot under the desk, she follows it and then when she has time to process things she realizes it was the boy from the picture, Michael, aka sammy. See already you’ve got way better story lines that are able to keep incorporating the animatronics with keeping Charlie’s character in tact
I was wondering if Sammy would have some sort of importance later on. I mean, what if he just realizes that his life circumstances are weird and somehow DOES begin to remember Charlie or something? It just seems weird to have half of Henry's family just vanish for plot reasons when they could really be utilized. Also, Charlie gets a case of the Bella Swan syndrome in the other two books. Regarding her sudden stupidity. Her and John's relationship would be fine if it had relevance to later plot points in the books and/or games, as would the whole Sammy disappearing from the series. But at the same time it would be even more confusing. I just wish the books and games stayed their own separate canon entirely at times.
i liked the twisted ones and i know i'm wrong on this. Fourth closet was a book i read whilst camping (to avoid family obviously) and i spent like the entire book being confused and mad except when Jessica was doing stuff cause Jessica is a queen
Ehhh, I don't know. Anxiety doesn't make you suddenly make moderately to extremely bad decisions. XD If you want to see an anxiety-ridden character. Watch the cutscenes of Oddworld Soulstorm. The main character is a constant roller coaster and I love him. XD
at 18:06 the dry tone of voice and bland delivery of "i think it was one of the dolphins from the animated titanic movie" actually had me burst out laughing i've been thinking about it every time i see henry for weeks now LOL
honestly i feel like there are so few *truly* notable female characters in fnaf post sister location, and any of the ones that have stuck around since before then have been kind of,,, watered down? like, how baby went from one of the most interesting and genuinely intimidating characters to a very infantilized lackey. i also just find it very uncomfortable how so many of the female characters get sexualized even in official material, especially if they don't start off as being portrayed that way (again, like baby). and that really sucks, because i think a lot of them have lots of potential or are at least fun to be around. charlie is really the only MAIN girl left and even she's been pushed aside in favor of her male co stars. it just feels a bit icky to me.
In Fzbear Frights book is not better in how they treat to the female characters. while it's true that the male protagonist are having horrible deaths, most of the surviving males actually got the chance to have a fight and earn their happy ending. meanwhile, most of the female protagonist are either a get a treatment of a punching bag or being very unlikable (or both) and barley get a chance to fight for their good ending. among the only four surviving female protagonist (who were splited into two books and one of those books is the very last one) only Samantha got an equal treatment to the surviving male protagonists. Kasey, with all my love for her, was busy in running away from Ballora (but not complain because it's fits to the theme of the story), Mandy was never in any danger and Sylvia was saved by Mike (yet, "You're the band" is the best FF story ever). Tales from the pizzaplex doest not make it better. the first book is one of only two with female main character (the second one is the upcolimg 6th book. so four books without any female main character). two were punching bag, one unlikable, all of them ended up dead. and in the stories with a male main character, there is lack of female supporting characters (like Margie from the real Jake or Nurse Mia from the main in room 1280).
The explanation for adult Charlie being evil could've so easily been that Henry tried to destroy her and then left her locked away, fully conscious. Definitely didn't need to go through all the weird spiritual/supernatural stuff.
Fun fact about Charlie being Puppet, they actually hinted it since the first book at the start. If i recall, the scene had Charlie looking at herself on a mirror and her thoughts mentioning something about a smile and red cheeks.
Oh i always assumed her description being “even when she’s crying corners of her mouth looked like she was about to smile” is a nod to Puppets wide grin with tear tracks on their face. Its so edgy. Love it.
The more I watch your videos, the more I am convinced the Puppet won't appear in the movie at all, and the more I am affraid that the movie shall suffer the same shit that maked the books go boinkers: wanting to be canon with the games and exploring new ideas without taking into account what was already there. If that happens, then the movie is ducked from the start. Why? Cause Scott took active part in its developpement, allowing him to make the best movie out there, or the worse.... If the creator's vision is ducked, that's it. Fnaf could potentially find it hard to recover from it, security breach did not put it in the right place and this could potentially finally be the final flop this franchise needed to finally make it's fanbase quit Also we should lower your expectations to a near non-extistent hype. What I wanna see in the movie is William beating up robots with an axe and getting chased around by spirits while Die in a fire bangs in the background. That probably will not happen, no living tombstones music, no mat pat, no Markplier and probably not the most Iconic death in all of gaming. Please, for the movie's sake. Prove me wrong.
Here's what I expect from the Fnaf movie: - A lot of talking exposition/moments where Mike and love interest/friend talk around what happened at Freddy's. - William hamming it up, probably gets a dramatic monologue. - Vanessa appears in the movie, but then appears in a rabbit suit at the end for a sequel bait. If my image of the movie is true, which I hope it isn't lol, then I also hope the Puppet doesn't appear. Because if it does, it'll probably just be for two seconds to say 'remember that?'
@@notrealnamenotatall2476 "Now this is just a sad display, boy" -Tf2 Engineer Jokes aside. I am scared, it's obiously gonna use the nostalgia card, wich to some might do more harm that good due to the current state of the franchise. I said it once and I'll say it again. But fnaf as we knew it is gone, kept alive by a community way too stuborn to let it go, the magic of the original trilogie and fnaf 4 as all but faded away for the sake of giving the few human characters actual personnalities and a background, slowly focusing on them more and more around them and getting too detached from the horror in exchange of a unsatisfying scy-fy mess, the fear of the unknown is gone, the main killer who started as a background character and was at is peak in fnaf 3 became peepa Aftons and the rest of the cast was either forgotten, replaced or redconned out of existence. The golden days of fnaf shall live on in the vhs tapes, fnaf plus and the community content that trully understood what made this franchise a good Masterfully crafted horror storyline. But hoplessly grabbing onto the past in hope that it shall return isn't really healthy you know, the story changed, the characters changed, to the point where we aren't even sure what started what. I slowly started to move on after sister location came out. Came back like a year ago or two for nostalgia sake and cannot look at the fnaf the same anymore.....
@@notrealnamenotatall2476 so..... the cast for the animatronics was revealed, including the Puppet. So far I think I owe an apologise to Scott, he really seems to know what he's doing and what we wants. Respect for the man himself from an humble Bald Eagle.
The part of the video that stuck out the most to me was the dramatic change in character motivation in the second book, as Charlie becomes inexplicably obsessed with her past beyond what is reasonable. It reminds me of the Andrew Garfield Spider-Man movies. Some slight background, I'm a huge Spider-Man buff. Read every back issue, briefly wrote for one of the more popular fansites/podcasts. Anywho, in both the Garfield movies, but especially the second and notably last one, Peter was OBSESSED with his missing parents. This is directly contrary to all classical Peter Parker storytelling. Peter doesn't even think about his parents unless a specific reason is put in front of his face. Why? Because he has parents, May and Ben. He considers, and always has, them to be his parents. Poor writers do not fully appreciate the magnitude of change in results a small change in motivation can have. Peter went from heroic, to whiny. The plot went from engaging, to insufferably boring. Why? Well because Peter being tortured by his past conflicts with a Spider-Man story arc. "Wait, that's crazy! Peter being tortured by his past is core to Spider-Man!" Peter is tortured by the deaths of Gwen Stacy and Uncle Ben not because they're sad things that happened in the past, but because of his direct involvement in both of those events. Peter's failure to act resulted in his Uncle being murdered. So he feels guilty and compelled to act. However, Peter's choice to act resulted in the murder and death of his first love, so he feels guilty to act. Both of these motivations are active and directly related to the main character and what he chooses to do right now in the moment. Andrew Garfield's tortured past about his parents is one in which he is completely passive. Nothing that happened has anything to do with him personally. Instead of being the character around which the story revolves, he is now reacting to the story which revolves around his father, who isn't onscreen. Small change in motivation, dramatic result. Writers doing a job though, making someone else's product for them, are unlikely to care about these kinds of ramifications beyond whether or not the client likes the sounds of the idea. There's no analysis beyond the first level. Analysis takes time, and time takes money. Scott was not really in a position to be managing games, toys, books and merchandising all at once. It is highly unlikely he had the time to seriously evaluate these books beyond the surface level.
it's such a shame because I really liked the idea of seeing Charlie as a main character, and it did work well in Silver Eyes. As you said, there's a lot of potential here. I also can't help but agree with The Twisted Ones, like goddamn calling that a story is hard. Thing is, I feel like Scott did create Twisted Ones. However, it wasn't to continue Charlie's story, but to add more lore for the games into the mix. Sound Illusion Discs, the Twisted Ones looking like Nightmare animatronics (I mean Nightmare was the cover of it). It didn't read like a story. Charlie didn't seem like a character anymore. It just felt like a bunch of "hey here's an explanation obviously intended to be used for the games". The Fourth Closet picked things back up tho. I personally liked the twist. I find it understandable for John to not trust the red dress Charlie, too. Hard to believe, but it could make sense. He saw her die, and tried to rationalize a new person looking exactly like Charlie showing up. No, what I did mind was the lack of focus on her once again, I know more about the feelings of Baby than I do the character we've been following for the past 3 books like come on, give me something, why is she sleeping again?? The twist that she's a robot is interesting, and gives a lot of room for more character development, maybe her sacrifice could've been more impactful had that room been thoroughly explored. Dragon Ball Z had a more impactful Android death. Serious question though, why is Carlton the one who saves the MCI kids? It actually could've been an insane scene if Charliebot met the Puppet, maybe they could've built off of that and somehow write Charlie as the savior of the day. Carlton I guess has his brother Michael as Golden Freddy (another very weird writing decision here), but I care far more for the protagonist, a character that we've known since FNAF 2, than a book exclusive sidekick.
I remember when i originally was reading the first book, before the other books came out, i had a theory that charlie's brother had been killed and had actually posessed the foxy animatronic, which explains how henry could calm it down when it started acting up at night. Why the foxy endo kept trying to get to charlie, why charlie felt so uneasy around the endo. Im sad they didnt go with it
After I saw your first video, when you complained about puppet being non-existing in books, I thought about a scene where Charlie (spirit) sees Charlie (robot) and goes mad about being replacement -during marionette's attack it is revealed that Charlie isn't real. But I haven't read the books, heck, I haven't PLAYED THE GAMES, so I "might" be wrong.
What makes me stay away from charlie's character is that EVERYTHING we know about her is in the books, her name itself, and when fnaf 6 arrives, they simply put it in our faces that she is the puppet, and when you give her the book, in never once do you feel that, that she is a protective spirit with the missing children, and that she will do everything to defeat afton, and for me the biggest trick, was having put her to defeat afton, and free the missing children, they simply put the sexy baby, to be defeated, baby, as much as she is one of the best characters, and a better villain than afton, I feel that it would have made more sense to put the puppet in her place, thus making a very cool parallel in games. So no, in the end it was a plot that was simply there, just because it was there. By the way, you to reveal which child was possessing the puppet, it would make a thousand times more sense to put Sammy or the crying child, but to make sense in the book Sammy, as the plot of the first book shows, Sammy is charlie's motivation, an innocent child who was taken, and we don't know anything about him, besides his look being similar to the child who possessed the puppet in fnaf 2. But no, simply for everything about the character in the end to be discarded as nothing, as they forget who the twin was taken , and worse how Henry preferred to kill and forget his own son, in the memories of his other really deceased daughter. Henry himself is a character I feel sorry for, but a lot of empathy for these attitudes, I think his problems could easily be solved with someone admitting him to a psychiatric hospital.
Wow its been one hell of a long time since ive read 4th closet, as I remembered the ending way differently. I remembered it as a reveal that there was no Sammy, and Charlie being the one who was kidnapped (Henry had made memories of Sammy) , then the reveal that she was a robot, then John visited her real grave at the end, revealing she died at 3 years old (maybe not 3 exactly, but like 3-5 its been a while like I said)
Another factual analysis! Hardly going to use the words “theory” anymore, I’ll leave those to matpat- no, you make WONDERFUL, DETAILED analyses on Fnaf, that gives me information on stuff that isn’t so… insignificant.😊
@@notrealnamenotatall2476 totally reasonable, seeing that Fnaf lore is so incredibly messed up these days. Oh when the first game came out it was all so simple 😔
Huh...the library I work at has the collection of the FNAF trilogy in the Young Adults section. Sometimes, when working in that area of the library, I ponder checking them out to see what the hub-bub is all about, and if they as fun to read as the Fazbear Fright series. But after hearing all this...OOF. Dodged a bullet by putting it off for so long. This character degradation was PAINFUL to watch, and I'm in no hurry to see the book form now.
I personally have a very different view of Charlie. I agree on her being the puppet being kind of useless in the long run, sbout how the robot twist LOGICALLY makes no sense, and how she should have confronted Afton in fourth closet because they are literally presented as arch-enemies, AND that she should hsve met sammy and her mom, i disagree on some other stuff. I have read the three novels and im my opinion shes a very nothing-burger of a character, and in The Silver Eyes shes the most shallow. Throughout the whole book her only personapity trait is being sad, she does nothing but be sad and talk about freddys, this is a big issue for most of the cast in The Silver Eyes, they are shallow. But in Twisted Ones i think she got a very positive change. She now has more than 1 character trait, now shes awkard and she shows clear signs of trauma, fear, happiness, and desperation. Shes fleshed out a bit and i like that, she has more than 1 dimension. Then in Fourth Closet shes better than Twisted ones, yeah, but she has no real breathing room and theres the 2 issues i agree on (no confrontation with afton and logistics of the robot twist) Her main problem is that shes a very shallow character and unlike jessica and john she never quite grew out of it. What i gotta say though is despite the logistics, i LOVE the charlie twist plot wise. It really brings all the themes together and makes everything kore satisfying. Henry poured his Agony into a doll, and he created life, he made Charlie, and William tries to recreate that, he makes his own robotic family, but he fails because he cant love like Henry does. The reason Charlie is the way she is is because of Henry yes, but She isnt who she is because of Henrys confusion but because Henry turned her into a real entity, she developed herself from his base. Charlie is what Afton wants but cannot make, and Baby is a mirror of that, being Henrys "wrong" daughter and slso Williams "wrong" daughter at the same time. I just really love it thematically but technically its just nonesense. I doubt youre reading this but sorry for leaving long comments on your videos i am a very obsessive person and like to rumble about things i hyperfocus on, and im sorry for typos im dyslectic.
One stupid thing that I always tell people about the twisted ones novel is that Charlie is constantly looking for her brother even though he's dead well dead in quotation Mark says he's not actually dead but that was retconed in the Nextbook and can't be taken into consideration
So far, throughout all your videos.. I can’t find one thing I feel differently about… or think you’re wrong about. Good stuff. I am very glad i subscribed.
Great video! I agree big time on this. Charlie was such a great character in the first book. She is our really first protagonist. This si so sad what happened to her, turned from a protagonist, stuffed into the refrigerator (three times) and became a plot device overall I think that there is a huge problem with how FNAF handles with it's female protagonists...
I read Silver Eyes (Novel, not the Graphic Novel) last month and recently regained interest in the series with the news of the movie and plan for making some content by replaying the games. I genuinely enjoyed it. Afterwards I looked up reviews on the sequels and it made me realize how much I'm not really missing out. I do think it's a shame how they handled Charlie and I felt like they could've just stuck with it's own continuity from the games. Kinda like how with the Star Wars EU/ Legend Books or Knights of the Old Republic Games aren't necessarily Canon to the main Films and Shows.
I think John looking like Henry most likely comes from artistic choice. The artist for TSE graphic novel could literally only draw 1 male character and the others looked the same and the trend continued throughout the next few graphic novels due to what started. The artists for TTO and TFC probably just took the designs and physical structures of the characters from TSE graphic novel and used them because they figured they must be canon
I have a better theory, the reason why John looks like Henry is because it's a psychological reason, in fact here we fall in love with who you look like you have our parents.
Love your analysis of Charlie! I remember actually liking the Silver Eyes. It wasn't great, but it was pretty good (certainly in comparison to the others). Your analysis of the character nails the reason I disliked the 2nd and 3rd book, it was so jarring how everyone acted compared to the 1st. Charlie was compelling, and as you said it should have ended after book 1. I'm looking forward to listening to your re-write of Twisted Ones and the video on Charlie's friends!
O thank goodness! A video that acknowledges the problems with the main charature and not a bunch of comments trying to JUSTIFY IT! I was actually happy when she died in Twisted ones! So I was confused why the narrator started crying! She was so unlikable in the second book!
@@notrealnamenotatall2476 o ya. I was listening to an audio reading on RUclips. I I think actually got into a small argument with them in the comments about it.
Oh! I thought you meant like the official reading. XD Audio reading/reaction on RUclips is a lot more understandable than a paid narrator who probably reads dozens of books.
Agree, but it was sort of an open foreshadow. Like, it could've been foreshadowing that William faked how bad the Springlock failure was. It wasn't an immediate clue but more of a hindsight clue.
@@notrealnamenotatall2476 well yeah but then in the second book they say that he didn’t fake anything about the springlocks thing so it leads you to think about where the fake blood came from. It didn’t do that for me because I read the books after figuring out about her being a robot but I imagine that was the point
I feel like the twisted ones could of been better if it based on FNAF 4 and focus on a new main character who's dealing with horrible nightmares and try to find the truth about his/her sibling's mysterious fate at Fredbear's family diner (since Nightmare is featured in the cover of the twisted ones but he didn't even appear in the story) while the fourth closet if it based on Sister Location and should focus on the new group of characters where they're investigating a abandoned circus baby's pizza world and find clues on why it was closed down
Something that always bothered me was in Fnaf 6’s fire ending, where Henry said “My daughter….It’s in your nature to protect the innocent.” That line stuck out to me because wasn’t Charlie basically a toddler when she was murdered? How would a parent know this about a child so young? Was she the type of kid who hated when bugs were squashed? Or was there some incident of her trying to protect some kind of wounded animal? I don’t think a kid that young would have gotten into a situation where she was protecting other kids until after her death when she becomes the Puppet. And wouldn’t the Puppet have the same intelligence level as the toddler soul that possessed them? The puppet’s lines in Ultimate Custom Night really confuse me because I never got a sense for how old Charlie was when she died, because the childlike voice is very articulate in the Puppet’s voice lines
The toddler is the three-year-old Charlie in the novel. Judging from the pixel size in the game, he is probably between seven and ten years old. Scott did not specify Charlie's age in the game. The game and the novel are different parallel worlds.
And the truly saddest thing is...we never got a moment where the hot charlie went: "I've been doing push-ups!" Showing John that she was an imposter all along, John seems to know charlie better than anyone, he would know, charlie only ever did Sit-ups, he would have taken clays gun that night, and murdered the hot charlie in cold blood. That was the story we all deserved, but never got😔
19:51 DAMN DUDE XD But seriously speaking it is a good argument, I always wondered how she survived eating without getting glitchy or something messing up her system, IG this is the part where we should take a leap of faith and just not question it, tho I honestly think there could have been better alternatives Also your vids are pretty good and fun to watch, looking forward to anything new you bring up 😊
*PLEASE NOTICE ME I did not spend a day writing this just to be ignored*
I honestly don't know who would read this. it's basically an essay on what I think about tfc ( the fourth closet)
Even though tfc is my fav book I am really mad about it and have a lot of things to say about it let's start from the beginning
so as we know Elizabeth pretends to be charlie and fool everyone except John and no matter what she says he doesn't believe her now the thing is how didn't he believe her like you are the love interest; if you guys ever read a love story or something and the maine character dies you should know that the love interest would never expect the fact that they died, they would mistake people that looks the that main character as them and they would do anything to bring them or prove that they are alive and still with them. however that's not the case in tfc. John refused to see her. he would do anything to stay away from her (wow John you really do love charlie don't you 😒) and even though her lies are reasonable he still doesn't want to believe it like dude even though you're the love interest you have no right to be like that especially with all the truma she went through so she has the right to completely change. and when they are on a "date" and she asks him why don't you think I am me and him comes out with the dumbest reason ever "you could be Sammy and raised by afton and blah blah blah" no cuz whenever I think about this scene I always imagine like what if this wasn't just Elizabeth pretending to be charlie but is actually "his charlie" and just wants to change 💀 imagine how embarrassing, awkward and heart broken she would be or that whole scene would be lol 💀
ok but all jokes aside the relationship between Elizabeth and John really does show how much John doesn't care or respect Charlie's choices and wants charlie to be what John wants her to be just like you said she is treated like an object in the books. you know the funny part is John says to Elizabeth how did you manage to get undamaged, and it's suppose to be a reason why she isn't the real charlie? but when he and Jessica found charlie at aunt jen's she was also undamaged and he didn't even bother to think about it. another reason why he didn't think she was charlie was because she didn't remember the "I love you" part 😂😂😂 like bro are you serious right now🤦♀️but imagine when "his charlie" didn't remember anything at all like anything not even a bit not even the important things but remembered the "I love you" he was like:😳🤭🤗😚🥰. like bro where is the logic here 😂. there is an important thing that I really want to point out and that is, is Henry actually dead? the reason I am wondering this is because in the first dating scene while not charlie and John arguing about why she isn't charlie and why he think it's actually Sammy and blah blah blah (you know the plot) she says "Sammy is dead " "you took me to see his grave your self" and John respond with "yeah but I didn't see him grave *nor your father's* " now why would he mention Henry they are talking about Sammy and we know Sammy isn't dead and that's why he didn't see his grave so why would he mention him knowing how Scott is this isn't a coincidence and Scott wouldn't bring him up randomly when he isn't the topic especially not on one like this it really hard for me to put in words and explain it but if you think about it it would make sense btw this is just a what if it's not a theory or something but think about it could Henry actually be alive? not mention Henry does sound like someone who would fake his death but why? why would he fake his death? and if I was wrong this still doesn't change the question why did he kill him self especially after creating charlie and leaving her like that Henry done a lot of stupid and selfish choices that I unfortunately can't speak about right now but why would he do that? Henry really is no different from William 😕. here is a quick thing about aunt Jen she really is a good and important character she knew alot but what bother me is she didn't want to open her mouth like woman you are not getting anywhere with all the secrets you are keeping but other than that she was actually good but what a shame such a good character went to waist I really wish we had more time with her. ANYWAY now to the thing that really gets me is how mistreated Elizabeth is like legit nobody cares about her nor her feelings no matter how much she talked about them 😭 and there is absolutely no way Henry or Jen didn't know about the fourth closet charlie being possessed they had to know some how btw we are not going to talk about how John was a bitch to her basically the whole book. anyways when cb was talking to Jessica about her child hood and how bad it was and that she was abused and neglected and have an abandonment issues and how she died at such a young age and that she is possessed she did not care at all she was focused on running away and did not listen to her at all same thing happened with Charlie when Elizabeth told charlie about her child hood and how bad it was and that she was abused and neglected and have an abandonment issues and how she died at such a young age and that she is possessed and all she did not care not even a thought hell she did not even care when Elizabeth told her that Charlie's whole life is a lie and she is a robot all she cares about is Sammy like girl Sammy is alive he doesn't even know you exist and she is still like "BuT sAmMy" and you know what her sellution to stop Elizabeth EVEN AFTER WHAT ELIZABETH TOLD HER ABOUT HER CHILDHOOD!!!! SHE STABBED HER with the same suicide robot Henry made AND SHE TOOK HER SELF WITH HER!!!!!!! my girl obviously never read a book in he life don't you know you should only sacrifice your self ONLY IN THE NECESSARY for example there is a hero the hero needs to stop a nuclear bomb but there is no way to stop it the only way is to fly it up in the space and it explod and the hero die and save the world or the hero let's the bomb explode and kill people so the hero will choose to sacrifice them self here is a better scenario the villain gives the hero a choice which is the hero dies and the love interest stay alive or the love interest dies and the hero lives now in this situation the hero will most likely sacrifice them self basically sacrificing your self is when you don't have a choice or when both options have consequences and as you can see charlie had a lot of options such as talk with Elizabeth and convenience her to snap out of it sure Elizabeth is stubborn and it will take time but it is something and honestly I don't think Elizabeth likes William that much I mean in sister location she thought the Michel is William and she killed him anyway just to escape and also why did she stab Elizabeth like she knew she was possessed why did she do it she even said herself to clay is the twisted once that it is ok to shoot the twisted animatronics scenes they aren't possessed so she knew that destroying a possessed animatronic is definitely not a good idea so why did she do it like it's really pissing me off
anyway I think this should be enough there probably is more but those are the important once I doubt anyone made it this far but if you did than thank you so much for reading this you deserve a cake 🎂
I did read this and you brought up a TON of good points. I wasn't really thinking about that aspect of John, but, yeah, that makes him seem genuinely more creepy, and the treatment of Elizabeth/Baby is... actually a lot worse than I originally considered. O.o
And Henry doesn't have a grave- so does that mean he faked his death? That's... That's something I wish I noticed before I made my Henry video, lol.
I'mma pin you!
I'm gonna copy paste this and read it later, imma leave a like still tho
@no one you make some compelling points and observations... But i will give John one single sorta a pass...
There's a trope in fiction where the love interest knows when someone is their actual interest or not. Like they'd spot a shapeshifter or clone or apparition or illusion etc.
Whether logical or not in its application here, I could kinda buy the idea that his love was so true he could feel that this bot babe had a different energy to his bot. Or something, but the book is really clumsy with its delivery and plotting and pacing so... Yeah. They fumbled that.
Well, i guess its a partial potential pass anyway
Lucky for u I randomly stumbled upon this channel on this exact day and found this comment also this exact day
@circus this is exactly what I was thinking of! But I couldn't write it because well... I wrote alot already but yeah
I read the twisted ones and I noticed that Charlie did the weirdest things and it felt like she was just trying to push the plot forward
Maybe it’s because my brain in smooth in parts but I didn’t notice, maybe because I was listening to an audio book.
I thought it was so weird because I forgot some hidden context I needed to understand parts 🫤 but on a re read I realized it was just filler between filler then woah DEATH and book ends
I never read silver eyes and I just realized how weird she acted
Cackling at the image of William Afton, famed inventor and psychopath, driven crazy by the power of ambition and failure, slaving away late at night over a robotic daughter, muttering to himself “I have GOT to get the period cycles right!”
OMG THAT'D BE HILARIOJS
Why did you make me realize that 😭
I see it as an adult sitcom,
Henry and William: Mechs N' Dads.
@@juliovictormanuelschaeffer8370more like sour and salty dads
@@John-mp4qc it'll be the best comedy show made by Fox.
i just find it so interesting that characters who overstayed their welcome (like william) won't go away, but characters who need more development (like charlie) get nothing
I think it's because they're too scared to let go of the characters that made the games famous and start over with something new so they play it safe and stick with what they know.
@@sissysovereign1294 But if William is the only important character the story will fall apart. And I think even he isn't that well written or interesting... He's just overused.
@Red panda the only version of william I like is the fanon one like vhs fnaf or that interview series
@@N.I.A23 Same! I love those interpetations.
@@sissysovereign1294”They’re too afraid to get rid of popular characters”
Too bad the ghost kids don’t get any development, since they’re mildly popular
I really wish they connected her to the Puppet rather than Baby. Like the video suggested, imagine Charlie realizing she was a robot in the 2nd novel and then the 3rd she had to overcome that within herself. Then instead of forcing illusion discs and Baby, you could instead introduce the Puppet and have them work together. Imagine Charlie as we know in the novel and the Puppet (who we know wanted to help the original children) working together to stop Afton once and for all. Then at the end, instead of having Charlie unceremoniously dying, she could help the real Charlie move on and promise to live for the both of them. It's not the best writing, but you could help expand the puppet's story and potentially even allow us to see things from her point of view in a more detailed way.
Y e s
Baby is the bad part of Charlie and the Charlie we follow is already a Puppet-like character.
@@justice8718 That really doesn't scan though. The Baby from the books is introduced so late and has just enough of an attempt to hide that she's still Elizabeth Afton somewhere in there, that it feels less like she's anything to actually do with Charlie and more like she's Henry's anger and Elizabeth's desperate need for her father's love all rolled into one. Charlie herself feels like she might have more in common with Michael Afton, the person digging into Freddy's because of their own past, than the Puppet.
Sounds better than what we got??
@@tympestbooks1727 Baby was the one that broke into Charlie's house in the Twisted Ones.
Also, If Charlie is a robot, wouldn't she see metal underneath her arms when she is BLEEDING?
Also, also, did she never go to the doctor for a blood test or a hospital or something? Did she never undergo an X-Ray therapy? How was Henry able to simulate monthly periods!?
No clue!
It's a twist, for the sake of a twist.
A better twist would be, that she died, but instead of Being a robot, she is possessing her own body and doesnt know/remember it.
Maybe she was programmed to hallucinate the metal as a normal flesh wound. The best comparison I can make is SOMA where when a human scan is transferred into a robot by the WAU, they hallucinate themselves as still looking like humans to the point of even feeling pain and seeing blood, with the only way to break out of their delusions would be to have some earth shattering revelation come to them (like when Simon realized he was breathing underwater, the illusion was shattered and he saw what his arms actually look like in his new body).
Is like terminator, a robot inside flesh.
The weirdest part is that Henry had to have designed her to be anatomically correct which has some gross implications for another robot person in the franchise
Also a working digestive system so that charlie could eat and every gross bodily function that involves, and it’d have to be convincing. sweating too, and you’d have to make an AI that is perfectly accurate to the human brain, forgetfulness and all, I guess the short of it is that in order to make a robot that actually is convincingly human, you’d have to make a human and not a robot, a robot person would have to imitate most of the things the ~37 trillion cells of the human body do, And also, she herself would have to be designed to be effected by the hallucinations caused by Illusion discs. And also she’d have to not notice how her changes in size are never gradual. More importantly the same goes for people around her.
@@samkeiser9776
They do say that humans in a certain way are just extremely advanced robots, I mean, you are just a brain a fleshy suit.
The thing is, Charlie as the Puppet could have been so much more than a name drop if they expanded on it past Pizza Sim. Show Charlie sharing the protective nature that the puppet is stated to have.
My dream Fazbear Frights story would be one that reads like a shorter version of the Silver Eyes where our protagonist Emily lives with her depressed father and can't remember a few months after her 10th birthday at Fredbears when her friends convince her to join them as they explore a old Freddy's location, when all the haunted withered animatronics turn on and start harassing the group of teens and Emily begins to remember things she never was supposed to know, older models were attracted to noises and would be stunned by bright lights and decides to distract the robots so the others can escape and eventually she backs into a giant prize box and the animatronics chasing her freeze as the music in the pizzeria winds to a halt and the puppet crawls out of rhe prize box and looks down at Emily. Emily begins to remember a second set of memories, less associated with older, faultier mechanics and coding and more personal, a locked door as she bangs on the window of her own party, a car rolling up and a familiar face stepping our, with an unsettling grin. The last thing she remembers as she fades out being the puppet powering down to a halt right next to her. Suddenly she's back in the pizzeria as the Puppet is stroking her head, tears rolling down her cheeks as the Puppet carefully hands her a present box from within its larger one. She hesitantly opens to box to find a mask of the puppet with rosy cheeks and a big ol grin, but lacking its tell tale tear marks, the puppet nods slightly as she slowly brings the mask to her face and as she walks out of the pizzeria the animatronics don't attack her.
Why would they, she was one of them, a different breed but one all the same.
When Emily ends up back at her house she doesn't even realize she's still wearing the mask until her father takes it off and looks the most energized he has in years.
Idk I think it would be a great way to expand upon both the Charlie puppet connection and the way Henry planned the Pizza Sim trap.
Admittedly, that nature stated *is* shown pretty much since FNAF 2...
Now what we *NEED* as a plotline is Charlie and Michael tagteaming to body Peepaw Willy like it's fuckin wrestling...
No way, a fazbear fright thats related to fnaf?
I almost teared up reading this. I think you developed a phenomenal story here
@@deadmemes719 thank you so much
@@higueraft571 Charlie and Michael is a pairing that is surprisingly not that popular. Aside from the obvious duo their fathers were before everything happened, they're two young adults who have been dragged into the traumatic story of Fazbear Co, and are the main reasons their respective fathers descended into madness.
They'd probably be best friends at the very least. Someone needs to make a story on that asap.
Absolutely love that you're one of the few channels giving the franchise valid criticism instead of blind praise
or blind hate. Nice and nuanced
Charlie is probably my favorite character. You're point about her bring less of a horror protagonist and more of an actual person couldn't be any more true. She's someone who doesn't exist to survive but someone who enters these obstacles to uncover answers. William may be the most interesting but Charlie is someone who triumphs over past. For that, her ending where she was finally able to move on and implied to become an adult honestly made me tear up a little.
What I find funny is that in pizzasim is that the puppet isn’t even given a name. Henry just calls her “My daughter” and goes on with his monologue to be vague and annoying. He says Elizabeth’s name but not his own daughters before throwing a FE style bbq party for the cast. Im half expecting him to have 1. Forgotten his daughters name 2. He has a completely different daughter that isn’t charlie and this it was vague to just get one over on the audience. or 3. Forgot which daughter actually died and didn’t want to show that ^^
Oh god
Now I imagine Henry has a family of like 15 kids, and when Charlie died he was like "Oh god, who died? Was it Emmy? Alex? Vegeta Jr Jr?" and his wife and (living) kids are all staring at him with Charlie's body outside
You remember the candy cadet story about the dad adopting a bunch of kids to keep them safe only for someone to break in and kill them? Plot twist that was Henry he didn’t know which of his daughters was the puppet ^^
@@tapseymoth803 Yeah so he thought the entire time that it was Vegeta Jr Jr
The fact that William uses Dave Miller as his cover name is hilarious to me. I can't stop thinking about dsaf.
me too XD I know dsaf took that from fnaf but it’s too associated with dsaf for me; especially because I never really cared about the books
Someone should do a voice acted audio play of the Silver Eyes, but use Dsaf's Dave's voice for Will. XD
@@notrealnamenotatall2476 thank you for volunteering to do that!
@@notrealnamenotatall2476 Why throw dirt on fnaf? Do you have something against the series?
@@lolopap2593 No, she’s criticizing the series because she’s a fan of the series who wants to discuss the things the series has done wrong, the things it’s done right, and the things it could do to improve.
Honestly the idea of afton showing up for five seconds,then going "fuck you" and wandering off again is...pretty in charecter,,
That just sounds like me💀
What a character. One of the moments of all time in The Twisted Ones is definitely when Charlie decides, against everyone actively telling her not to, that the only course of action is to sacrifice herself to them (this being after she figures out that they're killing people who look like her in very painful ways, often leaving them to bleed out in rural areas), and then just does so. And everyone goes 'wow that was stupid but in-line with what she does, let's go have a séance with the old animatronics Clay keeps in his basement'. And yes, in the novel, she doesn't just go there because no one else wants to - she actively decides that these things which kill basically indiscriminately will stop if she offers herself, and does so.
Anyways, what you said about not understanding the idea of keeping a character consistent rings true - particularly for the comics. Many people have traits that simply don't line up with the novels themselves, and it just sucks overall. From Blacktime Mangle just being Mangle for no reason, to the random appearance of Shadow Freddy when it was seemingly only ever Freddy in the original novel, to the minor issues like hair and eye color, it just doesn't feel like the artists read the source material... not that I entirely blame them, because concepts are introduced for no reason and things either become a chekov's gun or outright vanish. Charlie's random science project to develop a language learning algorithm? Guess what, now it holds the secret to becoming invisible - despite that _not_ being how sound frequency works at all! Charlie's obsession with a door that she feels has her other half, her twin, locked behind it? Well guess what, it I guess had Baby behind it instead, who is apparently also part Charlie, but _we_ never see that we just see Jen teleport in and get crushed by a collapsing building! And Jen herself, background character who shows up randomly in the ending of TTO - why? Well, who cares when she can show back up, now apparently a recluse who cut contact with Charlie, confess that she knew everything, and then get killed to avoid exposition? Or the weird endoskeleton-with-a-knife that Henry used to kill himself, incomprehensibly - that shows up as a plot device, despite having _no_ reason to. Or perhaps Charlie's early teachings in mechatronics, which, while they make sense to give her some understanding of how dangerous the robots are and how to perhaps stop them or avoid harm by parts of them such as springlocks, didn't need to lead into her following her father's footsteps and becoming an engineer. Then, the parts that don't show back up, such as Arty, who pops up for a while, then vanishes. Or Clay having run for Mayor, which just doesn't end up being relevant. Or the random complex of pizzeria beneath the Emily house - which, I might add, has no foreshadowing nor is it ever referred to again beyond a passing mention once it's left, and it entirely collapses without damaging the surrounding land somehow as well.
Shadow Freddy is there because it's oddly a cameo of Fnaf's true OG main villain.
@@justice8718 If you mean Golden Freddy, then he's already _in_ the books - he's Michael Brooks, the third Michael in the franchise, and he was a friend of Charlie's group when they were younger before the yellow rabbit caught him. I'm fairly sure Shadow Freddy was, at the time of being introduced in FNaF 2, a reference to the suit used by Afton since Fredbear had no Bonnie counterpart at the time - but it's hard to say for sure. And Afton already basically is a cameo in TTO, since he has like maybe one chapter's worth of direct interactions.
@@ultmateragnarok8376 No. Golden Freddy has multiple people inside of it. That's why it acts so different in the books and games every time we see it.
Afton also didn't kill the kids in Save them. That was Spring/shadow Bonnie. He possessed the Springtrap suit long before William got stuck on it.
For the character William was arrested for in the MCI in the games, it was Foxy the Pirate. The animatronics couldn't roam during the daytime (Foxy Go Go Go), but suited performers could. The incident about him killing two kids was point in the franchise he did dress up as Spring Bonnie.
@@justice8718..Okay.
No indication states that Shadow Bonnie/Springbonnie killed the children. The sprite that killed the children is literally William's sprite, y'know, "The Purple/Sometimes Pink Man"? It's an unbased assumption with no proper evidence. Not trying to hate on you, it's just that it has no proper basis.
@@ManicFiction Springtrap in fnaf2 literally tried to murder William Afton and caused him to panic shutdown the animatronics (which is why William made "fun with Plushtrap"). It was reported that the suit killed other wearers (no matter what safety precisions they've did) and was too dangerous for anyone to be around with in fnaf3 tapes (made before Phone guy's death, fnaf 1, and maybe even fnaf2) that they literally locked it up.
The problem always goes back to "Scott, the main creative lead who's been deciding every story beat since day one, is not a writer." Time and time again, he clearly shows us he doesn't really know how to make a compelling, complete narrative, and I don't think he ever went to a course or seminar after he decided he wanted this series to have a story.
I do like the idea of Charlie eventually being integrated into the games as Vanessa's mother, especially if we combine it with Vanny as a regular copycat, no cyber ghost Afton. You can take that combination in a number of really interesting directions! But Scott doesn't know how to construct a cohesive narrative. He can't keep an idea going between games except "Afton is the scariest villain ever you guys, no really." He should have recognized that years before freakin' Security Breach!
Agreed although to give him credit, he has a track record of narrative based RPGs and other games that rely on story pre-fnaf so he does have SOME experience but it's rough.
@@DanimationYT The Desolate Hope is a good example.
@@troin3925 not really, the story of desolate hope was much simpler than anything that fnaf has ever not really designed with the purpose of telling a story. The story itself is conveyed through the backgrounds not much in of writing.
Is he even involved in the books?
@@illseeyaonthedarksideofthemoon yeah
“a clump of moments vaguely resembling a story” is pretty much how you can describe the entirety of fnaf lore tbh
In the games, I feel like Charlie should be the puppet, while Sammy is Nightmarionne. I do feel like The Puppet/Lefty should not have been attacking Mike in FFPS, if anything Charlie should have been Mike's ally against William and Baby, cause why would Charlie help her murderer?
As for the books. Love Charlie in the first book, but feel like the rest of the trilogy failed her as a character. If this was an alternate universe to the games, just let Charlie be alive(also Jessica should've been her love interest instead of John) Sammy dies and possesses the puppet would work much better than magical tears and Charlie bots. Though I'll be honest, I get this is a different continuity, but I'd rather they didn't replace Crying Child's death with Michael Brooks or ignore the Afton children entirely.
I thought it was pretty obvious that Lefty was insane, like she had little to no grasp on reality
Charlie acts you as lefty because of the animatronics programming, and even if she wasnt trapped by lefty she is VERY defensive and aggresive so i think she would've still attacked Mike
@@PopGoesMyBall Mike supposedly DOES look an awful lot like Dave- er, William.
I could see Charlie mistaking Mike's Identity and attacking on sight. After all, his own sister didn't recognize him.
Bruh Jessica Is a woman
@@Seeker_of_Truth_and_Beauty Most ghosts in fnaf see random people as William so yeah
Frankly, I think the trilogy could've had a much better shot at being great if they just used a different protagonist than Charlie after The Silver Eyes, or just gave her less direct involvements. Like, maybe they should've had Carlton take over as the lead in The Twisted Ones and Charlie could've avoided coming back until he got critically injured or something and she goes to visit him, which is when she gets targeted by Afton again. That would've preserved her theme of adapting to her trauma and possibly strengthened Afton's talent for tricking people, even from great distances.
Hearing about the Charlie robot thing from a game theory video gave me the idea for a DnD character, a warforged (basically fantasy robot) made by a master of the craft. Basically she died when she was very young but the father managed to capture the soul before it could fly away. Some time after the mother leaves while the father is doing research to give his daughter a new life through a warforged body as Bell, and using her soul as the energy source for said robot.
Before making Bell’s first body, he tested the technology with her dog (who died after the mom left) to make sure it works, and from then on he did the body switching thing over the years, adapting it to become better at whatever Bell aspired to, which became fighting for justice. Despite her body seemingly growing in a few instant bursts rather than naturally, she never found out she was anything other than human, or how her soul box was transferred from body to body, despite her knowing how the technology works, as she learned to build bodies for her robotic dog to use (she is an artificer).
The idea is that at some point after she’s got her young adult model and ready for adventure her father goes missing, and his fate would be up to the DM. At that point the only one left who knew the truth about her was the dog, who had seen everything, while Bell would not figure it out on her own, even after travelling for months with no food, feeling the hunger but never starving until she would meet the party if there ever was a campaign, and if she finds ou5 would depend on how the campaign goes.
After hearing the actual Charlie robot story from your videos, I think my character idea is a lot more sensible and plausible. Hope I can play Bell some day
Can I use that idea myself?
@@bristol8129 sure, just wondering what you want to use the idea for
@Hoodie X I'm gonna be doing a DND campaign and want to know if I could use that for my character
I see, would love to hear how that goes
@@arikaaa69 thx
I remember the fandom coming up with such a detailed and beautiful story for the puppet. My favorite was that she was the oldest kid to be killed (like 13 or younger) and wanted to protect everyone as she was the second to be killed... The puppet just seems like a waste now especially with the books. Charlie is such a bad character it hurts
I think it would've been interesting if in the books, Sammy was The Puppet, and in the games, Charlie was.
Yes! I've had that idea too and I love it!
They did a really weird thing with her character here. They introduced her brother who I'd honestly never heard of till this moment. And wrote him off. Personally I wouldn't have her being a robot, I wouldn't have her becoming baby. Her brother becomes the puppet. She finds him in the second book but for whatever reason can't stay with him. Maybe the buildings collapsing and John's pulling her out. John and her have a falling out and the 3rd book is her trying to find him again or maybe just helping put him and the other kids to rest. And making up with Jon
It is implied that Mike looks a lot like William Afton.
He's also a corpse at this point so maybe Charlie thought this is William.
"I've been doing sit-ups"-Charlotte Emily, who knows what year.
Why did she have to be a robot? No seriously, why? She didn't have to be one, she didn't have to die, she had so much potential, and so much she could have been, and this never had to happen.
Even after her mass character assassination, she still remains my favorite character, John didn't have to be a littoral cardboard cutout, and they could have had such a cute relationship, but no, he is a littoral textbook love interest, and boring as all heck,why, why why why why W H Y. And then twisted freddy appears, and just vores her. THATS IT FOLKS- oh and also afton. . .OH NO, SEXY CIRCUS BABY, But don't worry guys, look at how smart John is! He knows it's not her, isn't he a wonderful new protagonist? No, no no no..Why not Carlton? Carlton is better, except not, now, even knowing this robot is a dead child, he thinks she H o t, pedophile moments aside, what have they done to my boy? Also, John Is stupid as hell, his girlfriend is unconscious, barely has a pulse, and also appears to be ill, and when Jessica recommends bringing her to a hospital, HE FCKING SAYS NO, LIKE, JUST NO, HE HAS NO RESON, SHED BE SAFER THERE, JOHN YOU LITTERAL IDIOT, WHY. And then robot shenanigans, blah, blah afton goes die. Why did they do this to my girl, she did not deserve this. She absolutely did not, also, all the times Charlie is showing off how she feels, traumatized, her friends are all like "THaT'S OuR ChARlie!."....Why...why...why :,(
Making a human robot who’s someone managed to dodge every single X-ray her entire life UNKNOWINGLY is crazy. This is one of those ideas that an intern would point out a problem with its logic and get immediately hushed for speaking out of turn
The reveal has to be that the childhood is programmed memories and she's only been "alive" for a matter of days. Give or take.
I've never had an x-ray in my life. In fact, more often than not you don't typically get x-rayed unless you've either had a broken bone or needed a Dr. to figure out if you had some kind of infection or not. (Or maybe cancer.) So it's not THAT uncommon of a phenomenon.
Honestly, the idea of Charlie being an android is, by itself, fascinating! But the way it was done was far cry from good.
They could have done SO MUCH with it, too!
Not to compare sci-fi series with actual coherent plot to FNAF, but WestWorld did all of the twists and then some so brilliantly!
The "Character finds out they are a robot and the person they mourned is in fact a reflection of someone else's grief?" Check!
The "Androids have two mods: in one they are obvious to their nature and think they are humans?" Check!
Human world is changed forever by technological progress? Evil corporations? Characters haunting the narrative FAR more effectively, despite the fact there is no ghosts around? Check, check, check!
Words cannot describe how vindicating this entire video is. It feels like everybody I know blindly likes the Twisted Ones and the Fourth Closet.
_AND ESPECIALLY THE FNAF 6 ENDING, THE THING YOU SAID ABOUT HOW MICHAEL SHOULD’VE SAID THE SPEECH IS SO TRUE WHY DOES NOBODY THINK THAT_
Thank you! I'm glad... They like the Fourth Closet? Huh... Well, anyway-. XD
Jokes aside, yeah, I don't understand why it wasn't Michael. Like, think about it. If Michael hadn't spoken in Sister Location Custom Night- which was really just an unneeded teaser- they could've had silent protagonist Michael's first and only line be that speech at the end of Pizzeria Simulator. That would've been one heck of a moment.
Just imagine Lefty running into Henry after she realized it's been according to my head cannon 50 years of doing literally nothing with the information he has and the method he used to get the puppet that's the first time Henry would have ever seen his daughter put one (SPECIFIC) finger in the air aimed at his direction
"Hey Dad, guess what?" she asked. Her eyes took a dark glint, "I've been doing sit ups..."
I’m very excited to hear a gal talk FNAF theory. I can’t wait for you to really blow up. Keep up the great work! 🎉
Thank you kindly! 8D
@@notrealnamenotatall2476 You actually impressed me with your unbiased perspective on the whole robot reveal thing, and explaining why it failed, and what it easily could've done. I personally think the puppet should've been the co-star of the later novels though, replacing baby and being an anti-hero instead of an antagonistic evil.
Thank you! And that is a very good idea.
Man imagine sobbing so violently your stuff comes to life
That sounds disturbingly like a Robot Chicken Pixar parody. XD
I read the Silver Eyes series, and when I finished The Fourth Closet, I put my e-reader down and said, “What?”
Also, the Twisted Ones having the Charliebot twist and Fourth Closet being about her coming to terms with it seems much better than Charliebot being revealed in TFC.
Also x2, the plot would be 100x better if the Charlie at the end of TFC was actually Sammy, who is trans MTF.
I saw a review/rewrite of the first three novels a few years ago that had some interesting ideas to go along with the whole "Charlie is a robot" concept. (I don't remember the video I'd have to dig to find it.) But they had a cool idea were Charlie would be followed around by the Puppet throughout the books and she would eventually find out that she is a robot and the real version of her is trapped inside the Puppet animatronic (there was more to that idea but again my memory of it is foggy). I think that could have been a really existential moment for the character and it sucks that it hasn't been done in any of the games or books yet. I really enjoy these videos, even if I don't always agree with some points it's always fun to discuss these stories and what they could have done better and hopefully the movie (or future books) can improve greatly over the older stuff.
The video you're referring to is "Rewriting the FNAF Books" by David Popovich right?
@@lartts7483 yep. Thank you, I forgot what the videos were called.
Charlie's character is like you make a plain cheese pizza, it's pretty ok, not awful but it's gonna taste good in the end, but the you add a surprise where underneath the cheese with the sauce you hide some spices to add flavor but now you're remembering after it's gone in the oven you don't like spice of any kind but then you still eat it, and you just with every bite realize how much worse it gets realizing more and more flaws with how you made it. This is a great video talking about a sad character decay and now I'm hungry, so this is a great watch.
I think FNAF just is run by people who don’t know how to write anything more than abstract stories. The more fleshed out the stories got, the less they started to make sense. FNAF would have worked best if non of the human characters had names. We kept it as “killer” and the unnamed children could have been numbered. It could have dove deeper into the motive of the killer inside spring trap, and kept an actual feel of mystery.
Pretty much yeah. Though I personally like the characters to be named but that's just me.
I agree with someone on Reddit that Micheal should have been in John's place. The horror, realizing his father's a killer, the conflict he and Charlie would feel over the revelations about their fathers, not to mention him having his own life to deal with instead of fawning over Charlie the whole time! It would have made for a far more interesting dynamic instead of John just following her around all the time.
I know it wouldn't work with canon timelines (I think he's way older than her??) but these books are already kind of messed up in their connections with the games, so why not change this too?
Dude, I’d love to see a retelling of the Twisted Ones and the Fourth Closet where Charlie finds out she’s a robot and she learns to accept it and move on.
Amazing video.
it's just sad because Charlie is such a relevant an interesting character, they absolutely butchered my girl
It interested me that Charlie and Baby are kinda half sisters, they could've both been like "Fuck Afton" and then been besties. It at least would've been true to Baby's original hate she had for her father inthe games.
The fact is that baby never hated her father
@@MISSWHAT-lp5om In Sister Location, the Funtime animatronics and Baby “thought I was you” as Mike says, basically they thought Mike was actually William. And while you could argue Baby had no idea about this because she initially says “I don’t recognize you”, we know that’s not true because in the Private Room on night 5, Baby tells Mike things that are clearly directed at William while she tries to get into the room and kill him and wear his skin and all that, also the Bidybabs ask if Mike is “the same person” presumably as William. Point is though, Baby thought Mike was William, and what did she do to him? She literally scooped out his insides so he could be puppeted around town lmao.
@@3DFella you can not use this argument in fnaf 6 where she literally is trying to make her dad proud.
@@MISSWHAT-lp5om
Fnaf 6 contradicted SL and it was wrong to do so.
I remember getting to the part that revels Charlie is a robot and that's when I was like "Nope." I can only suspend my disbelief so much. I can accept sentient killer robots, I can accept illusion disks, SHIT, I CAN ACCEPT THE IDEA OF AGONY AND REMNET, BUT PEOPLE BEING ROBOTS I REFUSE TO ACCEPT!
hey i just wanted to say that as a writer i love your analyses because they tell me exactly what i SHOULDNT😭 do and mistakes to look for when i revise my writing :) for the sake of my future books please don’t stop analyzing narrative anytime soon !! i’m taking notes..
I'm so glad to hear! 8D And sure thing!
27:20 Well Fnaf 3 canonically takes place in 2023(with Fnaf 6 certainly not taking too long after given Henry Emily would most likely be well into his 80s by 2023)and Security Breach takes place afterwards(might actually be a good few years later). I’ve seen Charlie being listed as 17 in 1995, meaning she most likely was born in 1978, so she’d be 45 during fnaf 3 and presumably near if not past 50 by security breach. She’d still be at a plausible age to be Vanessa’s mother but given she died very young in game canon and is a robot in book canon it would be impossible.
Good point. Still, they could've used her elsewhere. Or just not jumped so far into the future with every game. XD
Yeah had Scott decided not to retcon Charlie to be the Puppet she could have easily had a more prevalent role in the games. Maybe she could have taken Henry’s place in Fnaf 6 or something. Hell, come to think of it as I’m writing this, that example could work even if she was the puppet assuming she could pull all the strings(pun intended)from behind the scenes(pretty much like Henry does anyways), and using her “Charlie voice”(obviously a more mature version of it)like Baby uses her “Elizabeth voice” during SL’s Ennard night. So yeah, she had potential, it’s a shame she ended up being sidelined as just another one of Afton’s victims.
You know since the books are a different continuity from the games (to my knowledge) the whole robot Charlie or Charlie not being real or whatever the hell it’s called feels pointless, and since they CLEARLY wanted her to be Puppet have the books be about her rediscover the events of her life before she died like a puppet origin story. I know it’s a cliche to do a story where the main character is dead the whole but if it worked for Michael Afton it could work for Charlie Emily maybe.
I pray to the CEO of fnaf that we get the Puppet to be the main character in an actual story and that she’ll have some relevancy in the movie and won’t just be there as a cameo, if she’ll even be there at all.
I quite liked this as an update to the last one. Everything you said was pretty much spot on and I’m very eager for the next vid!
Charlie in the books:is good at first but gets gradually worse
Charlie in the games:actually quite good 😐
charlie dismantling theodore has to be the harshest part of the book for me, idk why
she just feels so... detached? thats her childhood plushie bot, with the voice of her late father, and she like 'yea thats junk'??? and just use it for parts????
also the scene where she lays in bed waiting for twisted freddy feels weird, it just that she has no reason to be there iirc
i havent seen the graphic novel, i just read the text-only ones
I remember when I read the first book and I genuinely thought it meant her brother was gonna be the puppet, also that plot about their dead friend who was golden freddy was completely thrown away too
My speculation was that Sammy was a reference that in the game it said “Save him” but it was changed
I remember that when it was announced that a fnaf book called the silver eyes would come out I thought it would focus on Gabriel (The soul that possesses Freddy) showing us a bit of the background of the murdered children or how they think and intellect among themselves
I still can't get over that one Charlie image that looks like she has a 5 o'clock shadow
Henry Emily:
Master Roboticist and Engineer? ❌
Rapunzel Magic Tears?👌
Remember when Matpat was talking about is Golden Freddy is possessed by two spirits theory? Well, I think he was a bit wrong. I think he meant that the PUPPET was possessed by two spirits. Here me out, you ever wonder were was Sammy in the games? Well, he could be the new owner of Fazbear Entertainment taking over for his father after the events of fnaf 6, but we don't even here the employees mention him. So my final conclusion is that both Charlie AND Sammy possess the Puppet.
Edit: also, another key note, remember when the puppet said that she was very aware and not an animal? Yea she doesn't keep true to her words. I think this is because while Charlie is not an animal, her BROTHER on the other hand well... you get the picture.
Aaighty, that was a great video, really thourough analysis of the character, loved it!
Honestly, what I think is the main cause of the issues of the books is that I feel like they were more written to be a way to add more lore elements for the game series. Hard to not turn everything in the book into a plot device when the book itself is supposed to be a plot device.
Also, consider this: WHAT IF Henry was a robot and his tears were remnant? It makes absolutely no goddamn sense, it's just a fun thought I had.
Oh, just another thing (27:17), about the end of your vid. If we consider Fnaf 3 to be in 2023, and then there's Fnaf 6, and THEN Security Breach, it feels like SB would happen wayy further into the future than 2021 or smthg.
But anyways, great video, can't wait for the Twisted Ones Rewrite with your non-AI voice!
Book Henry is pretty much William Afton from the games. They both raised robo-children. Their child (Michael/Charlie) died to unfortunate circumstances that caused William/Henry to rebuild them as robots. Their passion for robotics is abused by their partners. Both are believed to be behind the MCI. The twitching bird Charlie mentions in the novels shows up as a picture in the fnaf4 house, alluding that this bird is also the inspiration for Game William's robotics.
Game Henry has none of the talent or ambition as Book Henry. He abuses the puppet with control shocks instead of caring for her and is unable to create convincing human robots (Book Charlie. Game Michael).
@@justice8718 Michael isn't a robot
Actually, FNAF Silver Eyes is what got me into the franchise. So when I read the book, I was pretty surprised to find how good it was(not great but good enough). I LOVED the characters from the book(mainly Charlie and her friends) and any time I see something relating to them, I click on it(most of the time). However, when I saw and read the other two books... I was disappointed to see what they came up with. They butchered Charlie and her friends, they butchered Afton and the sequels are one of the main reasons to why modern FNAF lore can be so controversial from characters being robot plot devices to vague, confusing and lazy lore than throws logic out the window. I want to see Charlie and her friends again in the future, but done right. No insane plot twist, no out of character moments and no vague lore. Just Charlie and her friends discovering the past, befriending characters from the games, avoiding scary and deadly animatronics and stop Afton.
Lamar Leaving Is Reasonable, I'd Be Leaving Too If I Were In The Fnaf World.
I still can’t get over the fact that the only black character who was basically the least important person in the story and was meant to be literally just the black guy of the group to make it more diverse was written out after the first book. Marla’s little brother wasn’t in any of the other books because he was a little kid and it wasn’t safe to bring him along on dangerous adventures. But they could have totally added Lamar back and his character was basically like “fuck this shit I’m out” lmao. I also love how they explain his character getting written off as “he’s not coming back” which I think is a stereotype that black ppl have better survival instincts than white ppl in horror media, or I could just be overlooking this (I probably am lmao)
Charlie Emily deserved better 1000%
Agreed
If I were to change the story of the FNAF novels then it would go like this.
1. Micheal Afton is the main protagonist instead of Charlie.
2. The Silver eyes takes place before the FNAF 3 minigames and after the first game.
3. Charlie's friends are still there and help Mike overcome his trauma from the Bite of 83'
4. The Puppet is here and reunites with John in a heart warming way that causes us to cry.
5. Evan is the main antagonist of the novels as he's hunting down Mike for revenge.
6. The twisted ones are replaced by the nightmares as the cover art for the novel is Nightmare himself so it makes sense.
7. The final part of the Fourth Closet is Micheal arriving at Circus Baby's Entertainment and Rentals.
That's pretty much about it.
And maybe at the end crying child can forgive Mike? (Even though that’s not realistic)
@@MichealAfton1983 Maybe, but we will never know if Evan will ever forgive him. It's never shown in the games
Another brilliant video :) You’re becoming one of my favourite channels when it comes to FNAF stuff because your emphasis in the characters and story of the franchise. You’re doing such a good work on it, you even got me interested in the books.
Now, there’s something about the quality of the books that I want to point out. I do think the all over the place writing can be explained with what the covers say… well that an application of Hanlon’s razor: “never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” Though in this case stupidity should be replaced with inexperience.
Now, keep in mind I’m talking about personal experience writing fanfic on-and-off for the last 4 years, so this is a rather anecdotal argument.
What I think happened was that Scott decided to team up with an experience co-writer, in this case Kira Breed-Wrisley, since this was his first time taking in such a project as writing an entire novel. This make more sense when you consider that the novel probably started to be written roughly at the beginning of 2015, maybe before or after FNAF 3 came out, as we know the disappointment Scott perceived regarding that game let to the development of FNAF 4. This mindset of not wanting to disappoint the community, plus the fact that this was Scott’s first time writing a book would explain why he decided to get a co-writer.
Is very likely that during the writing of Silver Eyes Scott heavily relyed on Kira, passing ideas, concepts, outlines for the story and what not, through her for feedback, recommendations, etc. I seen this happen a lot. In a fanfic discord server I’m in, novice writers would constantly ask for help, sharing segments to entire chapters of their fics.
Scott probably got more confident after the good reception of the first novel, so he didn’t pass as many things through Kira’s desk. This explains the massive drop in quality between the first and second book and all the weird narrative choices.
As to why the third book seems to be a bit better than the second one? Well in many people first fic, specially if it’s a multi chapter fic, you can notice improvements and in writing quality as they write more and more. This leaves to situations were fics feel like they have been written by multiple people. This also tends to result in some considerable re-writes, as in authors going back to to previous chapters and changing them to fit their current standards. If both The Twisted Ones and The Forth Closet were to be re-written I’m pretty sure a bunch of things would be changed if not down right eliminated, considering the illusion disc haven’t being directly mentioned in any game (at best we have details that can be interpreted in some many ways they might be a hint to the discs), I’m 100% certain they would be deleted out of the story.
However the biggest reason as to why I don’t think phantom writers were used is because of last year scandal. If there’s any situation where a detail like that could have come to the surface, it was that one. However, I could be wrong.
Leaving aside that, is really disappointing what happened to Charlie, both in the games and the books she was completely wasted. Just like most of the characters that aren’t Willy Afton, we have very little inside about her, a mayor character in FNAF story and yet she quickly became almost irrelevant not only in the games, but her own alt-universe centric story… poor girl she deserved better.
Thank you so much!
And true, that is very possible. I just couldn't really say because I don't know how much Scott wrote. We're kind of in the dark about that. There was a document that came out last year at some time that said some of the Fazbear Frights books were written by ghost writers, but it disappeared quickly without being proven or disproven. I suppose I was just giving Scott and his side writers the benefit of a doubt. XD
But if it is Scott, it would make sense. He does seem to have that issue with barreling into an idea without considering the consequences. Such as killing off the entire cast when he wasn't done with them, I.E. the third coming of ol' Willy. XD
Imagine an interaction between Puppet and Charlie lmaoooo that would be so awkward
How id rewrite the twisted ones and the fourth closet
1 get rid of them both we don’t need them we’re starting with a new book
2 while she’s gotten over the Freddy’s trauma, Charlie is still hung up on her brother, so the main story is her going to different Freddy’s locations to look for clues on sammy or William.
3 the first twist we get is when Charlie decides to look at her home a little closer she sees Ella and decides to finally take her off her tracks (she’s the one that ends up taking Ella in this version now instead of burke cuz I still don’t know why he even takes it) Charlie sees the illusion disc, not knowing what it is. Then she accidentally toggles the disc, making Ella appear like the child Charlie. Freaked out, Charlie digs deeper and eventually finds out the truth herself instead of the really boring exposition dump we got from baby.
4 Charlie finds sammy. It’s Michael. Not their friend Michael but Michael afton. For this we’ll just change michael’s name in the silver eyes. Anyways, while investigating stuff about William, she stumbles across william’s house, or at least what it used to be. Here Charlie ends up finding like a family photo or something with William and Michael and Michael looks familiar to Charlie. Then while searching the house more she finds an entrance to circus baby’s rentals so you can still have those animatronic scenes. We’ll say this is during the second night, Charlie is about to be chased by biddy babs but then hears a voice call her to the spot under the desk, she follows it and then when she has time to process things she realizes it was the boy from the picture, Michael, aka sammy.
See already you’ve got way better story lines that are able to keep incorporating the animatronics with keeping Charlie’s character in tact
Watching your videos while having little ro no context of the books appart from your other videos, is such a wild experience
I was wondering if Sammy would have some sort of importance later on. I mean, what if he just realizes that his life circumstances are weird and somehow DOES begin to remember Charlie or something? It just seems weird to have half of Henry's family just vanish for plot reasons when they could really be utilized.
Also, Charlie gets a case of the Bella Swan syndrome in the other two books. Regarding her sudden stupidity. Her and John's relationship would be fine if it had relevance to later plot points in the books and/or games, as would the whole Sammy disappearing from the series. But at the same time it would be even more confusing. I just wish the books and games stayed their own separate canon entirely at times.
i liked the twisted ones and i know i'm wrong on this. Fourth closet was a book i read whilst camping (to avoid family obviously) and i spent like the entire book being confused and mad except when Jessica was doing stuff cause Jessica is a queen
Charlie having a constant panic attack in the second book was neat to be able to relate to. She’s a relatable character for us with anxiety lol
Ehhh, I don't know. Anxiety doesn't make you suddenly make moderately to extremely bad decisions. XD
If you want to see an anxiety-ridden character. Watch the cutscenes of Oddworld Soulstorm. The main character is a constant roller coaster and I love him. XD
at 18:06 the dry tone of voice and bland delivery of "i think it was one of the dolphins from the animated titanic movie" actually had me burst out laughing i've been thinking about it every time i see henry for weeks now LOL
honestly i feel like there are so few *truly* notable female characters in fnaf post sister location, and any of the ones that have stuck around since before then have been kind of,,, watered down? like, how baby went from one of the most interesting and genuinely intimidating characters to a very infantilized lackey. i also just find it very uncomfortable how so many of the female characters get sexualized even in official material, especially if they don't start off as being portrayed that way (again, like baby). and that really sucks, because i think a lot of them have lots of potential or are at least fun to be around. charlie is really the only MAIN girl left and even she's been pushed aside in favor of her male co stars. it just feels a bit icky to me.
In Fzbear Frights book is not better in how they treat to the female characters. while it's true that the male protagonist are having horrible deaths, most of the surviving males actually got the chance to have a fight and earn their happy ending. meanwhile, most of the female protagonist are either a get a treatment of a punching bag or being very unlikable (or both) and barley get a chance to fight for their good ending. among the only four surviving female protagonist (who were splited into two books and one of those books is the very last one) only Samantha got an equal treatment to the surviving male protagonists. Kasey, with all my love for her, was busy in running away from Ballora (but not complain because it's fits to the theme of the story), Mandy was never in any danger and Sylvia was saved by Mike (yet, "You're the band" is the best FF story ever).
Tales from the pizzaplex doest not make it better. the first book is one of only two with female main character (the second one is the upcolimg 6th book. so four books without any female main character). two were punching bag, one unlikable, all of them ended up dead. and in the stories with a male main character, there is lack of female supporting characters (like Margie from the real Jake or Nurse Mia from the main in room 1280).
The explanation for adult Charlie being evil could've so easily been that Henry tried to destroy her and then left her locked away, fully conscious. Definitely didn't need to go through all the weird spiritual/supernatural stuff.
Sounds like The Mimic
Fun fact about Charlie being Puppet, they actually hinted it since the first book at the start.
If i recall, the scene had Charlie looking at herself on a mirror and her thoughts mentioning something about a smile and red cheeks.
Oh i always assumed her description being “even when she’s crying corners of her mouth looked like she was about to smile” is a nod to Puppets wide grin with tear tracks on their face. Its so edgy. Love it.
This video is good and I do agree Charlie was butchered in the books
The more I watch your videos, the more I am convinced the Puppet won't appear in the movie at all, and the more I am affraid that the movie shall suffer the same shit that maked the books go boinkers: wanting to be canon with the games and exploring new ideas without taking into account what was already there.
If that happens, then the movie is ducked from the start. Why? Cause Scott took active part in its developpement, allowing him to make the best movie out there, or the worse.... If the creator's vision is ducked, that's it. Fnaf could potentially find it hard to recover from it, security breach did not put it in the right place and this could potentially finally be the final flop this franchise needed to finally make it's fanbase quit
Also we should lower your expectations to a near non-extistent hype. What I wanna see in the movie is William beating up robots with an axe and getting chased around by spirits while Die in a fire bangs in the background. That probably will not happen, no living tombstones music, no mat pat, no Markplier and probably not the most Iconic death in all of gaming.
Please, for the movie's sake. Prove me wrong.
Here's what I expect from the Fnaf movie:
- A lot of talking exposition/moments where Mike and love interest/friend talk around what happened at Freddy's.
- William hamming it up, probably gets a dramatic monologue.
- Vanessa appears in the movie, but then appears in a rabbit suit at the end for a sequel bait.
If my image of the movie is true, which I hope it isn't lol, then I also hope the Puppet doesn't appear. Because if it does, it'll probably just be for two seconds to say 'remember that?'
@@notrealnamenotatall2476 "Now this is just a sad display, boy"
-Tf2 Engineer
Jokes aside. I am scared, it's obiously gonna use the nostalgia card, wich to some might do more harm that good due to the current state of the franchise.
I said it once and I'll say it again. But fnaf as we knew it is gone, kept alive by a community way too stuborn to let it go, the magic of the original trilogie and fnaf 4 as all but faded away for the sake of giving the few human characters actual personnalities and a background, slowly focusing on them more and more around them and getting too detached from the horror in exchange of a unsatisfying scy-fy mess, the fear of the unknown is gone, the main killer who started as a background character and was at is peak in fnaf 3 became peepa Aftons and the rest of the cast was either forgotten, replaced or redconned out of existence.
The golden days of fnaf shall live on in the vhs tapes, fnaf plus and the community content that trully understood what made this franchise a good Masterfully crafted horror storyline. But hoplessly grabbing onto the past in hope that it shall return isn't really healthy you know, the story changed, the characters changed, to the point where we aren't even sure what started what.
I slowly started to move on after sister location came out. Came back like a year ago or two for nostalgia sake and cannot look at the fnaf the same anymore.....
To be honest though, video game movies in general make me very nervous. XD We've had some good ones recently, but this is actually a new thing, lol.
@@notrealnamenotatall2476 so..... the cast for the animatronics was revealed, including the Puppet. So far I think I owe an apologise to Scott, he really seems to know what he's doing and what we wants. Respect for the man himself from an humble Bald Eagle.
The part of the video that stuck out the most to me was the dramatic change in character motivation in the second book, as Charlie becomes inexplicably obsessed with her past beyond what is reasonable.
It reminds me of the Andrew Garfield Spider-Man movies. Some slight background, I'm a huge Spider-Man buff. Read every back issue, briefly wrote for one of the more popular fansites/podcasts.
Anywho, in both the Garfield movies, but especially the second and notably last one, Peter was OBSESSED with his missing parents. This is directly contrary to all classical Peter Parker storytelling. Peter doesn't even think about his parents unless a specific reason is put in front of his face. Why? Because he has parents, May and Ben. He considers, and always has, them to be his parents. Poor writers do not fully appreciate the magnitude of change in results a small change in motivation can have. Peter went from heroic, to whiny. The plot went from engaging, to insufferably boring. Why? Well because Peter being tortured by his past conflicts with a Spider-Man story arc.
"Wait, that's crazy! Peter being tortured by his past is core to Spider-Man!"
Peter is tortured by the deaths of Gwen Stacy and Uncle Ben not because they're sad things that happened in the past, but because of his direct involvement in both of those events. Peter's failure to act resulted in his Uncle being murdered. So he feels guilty and compelled to act. However, Peter's choice to act resulted in the murder and death of his first love, so he feels guilty to act. Both of these motivations are active and directly related to the main character and what he chooses to do right now in the moment. Andrew Garfield's tortured past about his parents is one in which he is completely passive. Nothing that happened has anything to do with him personally. Instead of being the character around which the story revolves, he is now reacting to the story which revolves around his father, who isn't onscreen. Small change in motivation, dramatic result.
Writers doing a job though, making someone else's product for them, are unlikely to care about these kinds of ramifications beyond whether or not the client likes the sounds of the idea. There's no analysis beyond the first level. Analysis takes time, and time takes money. Scott was not really in a position to be managing games, toys, books and merchandising all at once. It is highly unlikely he had the time to seriously evaluate these books beyond the surface level.
it's such a shame because I really liked the idea of seeing Charlie as a main character, and it did work well in Silver Eyes. As you said, there's a lot of potential here.
I also can't help but agree with The Twisted Ones, like goddamn calling that a story is hard. Thing is, I feel like Scott did create Twisted Ones. However, it wasn't to continue Charlie's story, but to add more lore for the games into the mix. Sound Illusion Discs, the Twisted Ones looking like Nightmare animatronics (I mean Nightmare was the cover of it). It didn't read like a story. Charlie didn't seem like a character anymore. It just felt like a bunch of "hey here's an explanation obviously intended to be used for the games".
The Fourth Closet picked things back up tho. I personally liked the twist. I find it understandable for John to not trust the red dress Charlie, too. Hard to believe, but it could make sense. He saw her die, and tried to rationalize a new person looking exactly like Charlie showing up. No, what I did mind was the lack of focus on her once again, I know more about the feelings of Baby than I do the character we've been following for the past 3 books like come on, give me something, why is she sleeping again?? The twist that she's a robot is interesting, and gives a lot of room for more character development, maybe her sacrifice could've been more impactful had that room been thoroughly explored. Dragon Ball Z had a more impactful Android death.
Serious question though, why is Carlton the one who saves the MCI kids? It actually could've been an insane scene if Charliebot met the Puppet, maybe they could've built off of that and somehow write Charlie as the savior of the day. Carlton I guess has his brother Michael as Golden Freddy (another very weird writing decision here), but I care far more for the protagonist, a character that we've known since FNAF 2, than a book exclusive sidekick.
I remember when i originally was reading the first book, before the other books came out, i had a theory that charlie's brother had been killed and had actually posessed the foxy animatronic, which explains how henry could calm it down when it started acting up at night. Why the foxy endo kept trying to get to charlie, why charlie felt so uneasy around the endo. Im sad they didnt go with it
I was literally reading the twisted ones end like "oh yeah, Charlie is hallucinating that shes at her house, right? right? o_o"
I’ve never read any of the fnaf novels, but this video is very insightful. Good job!
After I saw your first video, when you complained about puppet being non-existing in books, I thought about a scene where Charlie (spirit) sees Charlie (robot) and goes mad about being replacement -during marionette's attack it is revealed that Charlie isn't real.
But I haven't read the books, heck, I haven't PLAYED THE GAMES, so I "might" be wrong.
Lamar. He's my man. He takes one look at a funky Chuckie cheese, and he passed! Lol
He still never came back.
I feel like this follows a stereotype where black ppl have better survival instincts in horror media than white ppl lmao
What makes me stay away from charlie's character is that EVERYTHING we know about her is in the books, her name itself, and when fnaf 6 arrives, they simply put it in our faces that she is the puppet, and when you give her the book, in never once do you feel that, that she is a protective spirit with the missing children, and that she will do everything to defeat afton, and for me the biggest trick, was having put her to defeat afton, and free the missing children, they simply put the sexy baby, to be defeated, baby, as much as she is one of the best characters, and a better villain than afton, I feel that it would have made more sense to put the puppet in her place, thus making a very cool parallel in games. So no, in the end it was a plot that was simply there, just because it was there. By the way, you to reveal which child was possessing the puppet, it would make a thousand times more sense to put Sammy or the crying child, but to make sense in the book Sammy, as the plot of the first book shows, Sammy is charlie's motivation, an innocent child who was taken, and we don't know anything about him, besides his look being similar to the child who possessed the puppet in fnaf 2. But no, simply for everything about the character in the end to be discarded as nothing, as they forget who the twin was taken , and worse how Henry preferred to kill and forget his own son, in the memories of his other really deceased daughter. Henry himself is a character I feel sorry for, but a lot of empathy for these attitudes, I think his problems could easily be solved with someone admitting him to a psychiatric hospital.
Wow its been one hell of a long time since ive read 4th closet, as I remembered the ending way differently. I remembered it as a reveal that there was no Sammy, and Charlie being the one who was kidnapped (Henry had made memories of Sammy) , then the reveal that she was a robot, then John visited her real grave at the end, revealing she died at 3 years old (maybe not 3 exactly, but like 3-5 its been a while like I said)
Another factual analysis! Hardly going to use the words “theory” anymore, I’ll leave those to matpat- no, you make WONDERFUL, DETAILED analyses on Fnaf, that gives me information on stuff that isn’t so… insignificant.😊
Thank you kindly! 8D I try to stick to confirmed stuff and work off of that.
@@notrealnamenotatall2476 totally reasonable, seeing that Fnaf lore is so incredibly messed up these days. Oh when the first game came out it was all so simple 😔
Huh...the library I work at has the collection of the FNAF trilogy in the Young Adults section. Sometimes, when working in that area of the library, I ponder checking them out to see what the hub-bub is all about, and if they as fun to read as the Fazbear Fright series.
But after hearing all this...OOF. Dodged a bullet by putting it off for so long. This character degradation was PAINFUL to watch, and I'm in no hurry to see the book form now.
I really hope that stuff with John being similar to Charlie’s father wasn’t intentional, because that’s gross if that’s what was planned.
There is a scene where Herny is destroying a Charlie Bot, in a part where Henry cries holding a hammer, he looks a lot like John
I personally have a very different view of Charlie. I agree on her being the puppet being kind of useless in the long run, sbout how the robot twist LOGICALLY makes no sense, and how she should have confronted Afton in fourth closet because they are literally presented as arch-enemies, AND that she should hsve met sammy and her mom, i disagree on some other stuff. I have read the three novels and im my opinion shes a very nothing-burger of a character, and in The Silver Eyes shes the most shallow. Throughout the whole book her only personapity trait is being sad, she does nothing but be sad and talk about freddys, this is a big issue for most of the cast in The Silver Eyes, they are shallow. But in Twisted Ones i think she got a very positive change. She now has more than 1 character trait, now shes awkard and she shows clear signs of trauma, fear, happiness, and desperation. Shes fleshed out a bit and i like that, she has more than 1 dimension. Then in Fourth Closet shes better than Twisted ones, yeah, but she has no real breathing room and theres the 2 issues i agree on (no confrontation with afton and logistics of the robot twist)
Her main problem is that shes a very shallow character and unlike jessica and john she never quite grew out of it.
What i gotta say though is despite the logistics, i LOVE the charlie twist plot wise. It really brings all the themes together and makes everything kore satisfying. Henry poured his Agony into a doll, and he created life, he made Charlie, and William tries to recreate that, he makes his own robotic family, but he fails because he cant love like Henry does. The reason Charlie is the way she is is because of Henry yes, but She isnt who she is because of Henrys confusion but because Henry turned her into a real entity, she developed herself from his base. Charlie is what Afton wants but cannot make, and Baby is a mirror of that, being Henrys "wrong" daughter and slso Williams "wrong" daughter at the same time. I just really love it thematically but technically its just nonesense. I doubt youre reading this but sorry for leaving long comments on your videos i am a very obsessive person and like to rumble about things i hyperfocus on, and im sorry for typos im dyslectic.
Just wanted to bring up, your voice is so calming! I really like listening to your videos while doing stuff
Oh, thank you so much! 😊
One stupid thing that I always tell people about the twisted ones novel is that Charlie is constantly looking for her brother even though he's dead well dead in quotation Mark says he's not actually dead but that was retconed in the Nextbook and can't be taken into consideration
Charlie's one of my favorite characters, so I knew I was gonna love this video. And I do!
So far, throughout all your videos.. I can’t find one thing I feel differently about… or think you’re wrong about. Good stuff. I am very glad i subscribed.
Thank you! ^_^
Great video!
I agree big time on this. Charlie was such a great character in the first book. She is our really first protagonist. This si so sad what happened to her, turned from a protagonist, stuffed into the refrigerator (three times) and became a plot device
overall I think that there is a huge problem with how FNAF handles with it's female protagonists...
So let's say the kidnapped Charlie is the puppet and then the book Charlie is just what she's revealed to be.
I read Silver Eyes (Novel, not the Graphic Novel) last month and recently regained interest in the series with the news of the movie and plan for making some content by replaying the games.
I genuinely enjoyed it. Afterwards I looked up reviews on the sequels and it made me realize how much I'm not really missing out.
I do think it's a shame how they handled Charlie and I felt like they could've just stuck with it's own continuity from the games. Kinda like how with the Star Wars EU/ Legend Books or Knights of the Old Republic Games aren't necessarily Canon to the main Films and Shows.
I've realized that the art for the graphic novel of the twisted one's seemed a little rushed and not drawn well in some places.
Thank you for recording this! It’s much better with your voice vs a computer’s 👍
I think John looking like Henry most likely comes from artistic choice. The artist for TSE graphic novel could literally only draw 1 male character and the others looked the same and the trend continued throughout the next few graphic novels due to what started. The artists for TTO and TFC probably just took the designs and physical structures of the characters from TSE graphic novel and used them because they figured they must be canon
I have a better theory, the reason why John looks like Henry is because it's a psychological reason, in fact here we fall in love with who you look like you have our parents.
Love your analysis of Charlie! I remember actually liking the Silver Eyes. It wasn't great, but it was pretty good (certainly in comparison to the others). Your analysis of the character nails the reason I disliked the 2nd and 3rd book, it was so jarring how everyone acted compared to the 1st. Charlie was compelling, and as you said it should have ended after book 1. I'm looking forward to listening to your re-write of Twisted Ones and the video on Charlie's friends!
O thank goodness! A video that acknowledges the problems with the main charature and not a bunch of comments trying to JUSTIFY IT! I was actually happy when she died in Twisted ones! So I was confused why the narrator started crying! She was so unlikable in the second book!
...The narrator started crying? Yikes. o.o
@@notrealnamenotatall2476 o ya. I was listening to an audio reading on RUclips. I I think actually got into a small argument with them in the comments about it.
Oh! I thought you meant like the official reading. XD Audio reading/reaction on RUclips is a lot more understandable than a paid narrator who probably reads dozens of books.
Bro build a game thanks to a crazy dope idea he had but had no idea it would turn this big.
That thumbnail gets me every time.
5 o'clock shadow Charlie is a menace. XD
You're right cause when I was reading the twisted ones I was asking:" why Charlie became soo emo it's make no sense" :)
One small thing but I foreshadowing I remember recognizing was that there was fake blood in the pizzeria
Agree, but it was sort of an open foreshadow. Like, it could've been foreshadowing that William faked how bad the Springlock failure was. It wasn't an immediate clue but more of a hindsight clue.
@@notrealnamenotatall2476 well yeah but then in the second book they say that he didn’t fake anything about the springlocks thing so it leads you to think about where the fake blood came from. It didn’t do that for me because I read the books after figuring out about her being a robot but I imagine that was the point
I feel like the twisted ones could of been better if it based on FNAF 4 and focus on a new main character who's dealing with horrible nightmares and try to find the truth about his/her sibling's mysterious fate at Fredbear's family diner (since Nightmare is featured in the cover of the twisted ones but he didn't even appear in the story) while the fourth closet if it based on Sister Location and should focus on the new group of characters where they're investigating a abandoned circus baby's pizza world and find clues on why it was closed down
Something that always bothered me was in Fnaf 6’s fire ending, where Henry said “My daughter….It’s in your nature to protect the innocent.” That line stuck out to me because wasn’t Charlie basically a toddler when she was murdered? How would a parent know this about a child so young? Was she the type of kid who hated when bugs were squashed? Or was there some incident of her trying to protect some kind of wounded animal? I don’t think a kid that young would have gotten into a situation where she was protecting other kids until after her death when she becomes the Puppet. And wouldn’t the Puppet have the same intelligence level as the toddler soul that possessed them? The puppet’s lines in Ultimate Custom Night really confuse me because I never got a sense for how old Charlie was when she died, because the childlike voice is very articulate in the Puppet’s voice lines
The toddler is the three-year-old Charlie in the novel. Judging from the pixel size in the game, he is probably between seven and ten years old. Scott did not specify Charlie's age in the game. The game and the novel are different parallel worlds.
And the truly saddest thing is...we never got a moment where the hot charlie went: "I've been doing push-ups!" Showing John that she was an imposter all along, John seems to know charlie better than anyone, he would know, charlie only ever did Sit-ups, he would have taken clays gun that night, and murdered the hot charlie in cold blood. That was the story we all deserved, but never got😔
What??
19:51 DAMN DUDE XD
But seriously speaking it is a good argument, I always wondered how she survived eating without getting glitchy or something messing up her system, IG this is the part where we should take a leap of faith and just not question it, tho I honestly think there could have been better alternatives
Also your vids are pretty good and fun to watch, looking forward to anything new you bring up 😊
XD I thought too deeply into it, lol.
And same.
And thank you! 8D