Man, you are just great! That's how people should review things...not like those posh guys that you listen for 40 minutes without getting any actual useful info. I watched that ridiculous gearbox and motor from the expensive Niche, cute outside and not durable at all inside. Real world full inspection and evaluation review, from somebody that actually understands what he is talking about, absolutely stellar insight. Thank you!
I started a DF64 Single Dose Grinder group on Facebook, so anyone interested in discussing their grinder in depth is more than welcome. Someone posted this video a couple of days ago and everyone has been very grateful for your in depth analysis @PortaKeeper. Keep up the great videos!
The robust motor in that DF64 is impressive. I was surprised to see that vinyl wrap. I guess powder coat was not in the budget. Thanks for the informative video.
Great video. Thanks for taking the time to do this. I’ve been doing a lot of reading in the home barista forum and some have come to the conclusion that the bottom two screws play a part in burr alignment of the bottom set. Essentially if your taking the bottom of to access the declumper, you could be creating more work and need to realign both burrs. Have you experienced this?
Hmm i think I understand what you are talking about. When you say the bottom you mean the 2 screws in the front? I did a burr swap and alignment today, but did not remove those two screws. I really don’t feel like those two screws do much so I’d just leave in place
@@portakeeper I think the screws that I’ve been reading about are the two at the very bottom, when you turn the device upside. It gives access for the motor and the ability to move the front plate to access the declumper and shoot.
@@portakeeper yes. I just try to avoid the "hype trains" and let things settle for a year or so before making a decision on something. But I will keep an eye on the DF64 now. I'm not so sure about the burr alignment. seems from the design that the burr alignment is dependent on the spring tension and the flatness of the lid. but it looks like there is a rubber pad under the lid which would press on the top burr assembly. I guess it depends on how well machined and how thick the lid is.
@@JessicaSeverin not a fan of hype, part of the reason I am not a Niche fan. Actually didn’t care much about the Turin either to begin with. You are correct about burr alignment. The springs push up though so as the beans wedge the plate does not move up and down. Could check burr alignment as well. Adjustment mechanism identical design to the Mazzer line of grinders. My 2 cents, it is keeping up with some nice grinders. I really like the Atom 75 personally.
@@portakeeper a friend just bought the Eureka Olympus 75 from that Italian online store (on my suggestion). I really want to get one, but it is so large for my tiny kitchen in my tiny Japanese apartment. I may eventually fold and just get a 75mm Eureka and need to rearrange my furniture :)
I do not recommend anyone remove. I have done on many grinders and should not be applying so much pressure as to damage the chute. If you are something is wrong.
Excellent video, and I enjoy your relaxed style and the rich comments while you go. I have one question. I don't see a thrust bearing mechanism present in this grinder. The lower burr, with its mount, seems to sit directly on the motor shaft. That tells me any thrust load during grinding action would be taken by the bearings on the motor. In your opinion, does the motor appear to have been designed to take such thrust loading, could this be a problem long term? Thanks a lot!
I accidentally figured out how to turn off the power light permanently. There’s a blue wire that goes into the power button and it was loose and came off when I had it open. Turns out that’s the light wire.
Oven the casing to remove the motor hahahah. I do that to install bearings. I didn't see a video on the channel for that. Would have loved to watch that video.
Great video, thanks. Do you know what is under the vinyl wrap, is it just extruded aluminium? I have a feeling that would look much, much better than any colour they’re offering.
Thx for the video. Have been expecting your comparison between these two grinders. Good job. Just wondering will there be a comparison between the ground coffee coming out from these two grinders, i.e. how the flat burr and conical burr is going to affect the flavour of the espresso?
That is defiantly coming! I’m going to be running beans through this niche for a few days. Expecting to compare espresso, drip, etc. want to use more quantitive data over “it just tastes better”
@@portakeeper Looking forward to that, as I’ve been seriously considering these two grinders recently. And yes please, more quantitative data would be highly appreciated.
Finally got a DF-64, I made around 6 coffee with it. Then I opened it for cleaning as I wanted to see how to open it to access the burr. I was delicate everything was ok. Then when I try to put back the collar on (the ring with the number) it doesn't want to screw in !! I just can't find the entry point of the threads. This is driving me crazy. I don't want to force anything but the top only screws in for about 25% of a circle, when I removed the collar it rotated ~ 4 complete times. This is a problem as this is the only way to clean it. It is not supposed to be that hard... now I don't really know what to do, I don't want to put pressure on the threading.
I totally recommend. It is very easy to use and I like the price point. I am finding the Niche a lot more work to use and so far not enjoying the cup as much.
@@portakeeper I have had the Niche now for about 6 month and I have used several dosing cups size and I find the Niche size works well. I have two others that are slightly shorter and have gone back to the Niche. I actually recently purchased the new Niche dosing cup that eliminated the ledge inside and is more polished than the older version of the dosing cup that came with my Niche originally. I saw the other breakdown of the Niche you did also. I find that the Niche appears to be better designed than the DF64. However, the DF64 motor size does appear impressive. The Niche is not made for commercial use but maybe the DF64 is? The DF64 appears built like a tank compare to the Niche! My DF64 should be arriving in about a week for China (Alibaba com) . I am looking forward to trying it out the Flat burrs and comparing it to the results of the Niche. Thanks again for a great video!
@@EdGodoyPlana hood to know on the dosing cups! Might have to try a few others. Hard for me to say which is designed better. From an engineering standpoint they both have a few things I’d change but overall appear to do the job. Neither are NSF certified so neither should be used commercially.
@@JoseGabelaCuesta I have a La Marzocco Línea mini and a Niche Zero Grinder. The DF64 was supposed to have arrived this week but it looks like it maybe another week before they deliver it. I will let you know!
@@Emil1978-b3q lower motor speeds makes grounds more uniform. Almost all new Titan grinders (EG-1, Monolith Max, etc) have brushless motors with variable RPM control.
The Niche has plastic gears. It would be good to know if the DF64 has plastic gears or not. I wonder what parts availability is for both the Niche and the DF64.
with a flat burr, u need more rotational speed to generate the Centripetal force to propel the beans out through the burr. No gravity involved. Thus, a bigger motor. Conical burr doesn't require that, gravity is just a tool carry the beans to the burr, and the burr will grip and suck through. And slower speed = less heat. Personally, I think there are more thoughts that took place on the Niche compare to DF64 the position of the button alone proof that. If they want to have it capable of putting the grinder at the left of a machine, the could have place the button near the PF fork. Just push the dosing cup or PF to activate it. Anyway, for flat burrs. My vote always goes to Eureka if I am going to buy a production unit. But DF64 has a place in the market due to its price.
Due to its design, the button is in a place for a reason. There is really nowhere else to put it. It’s not hollow except bottom front. Very limited. They might be able to fit on the side if they readjusted a few things. Will have to look again. I too am a huge eureka fan.
DF64 has an AC motor that is a lot cheaper and inferior to the DC motor that is on the Niche. The fact that it is bigger does not realy make it better :))) Again it is absolutely normal for the DF64 to have much faster motor because it has flat burrs On the other hand the Niche is complemented by he slow motor being a conical grinder You have no ideea of what you are talking about I now understand why you have only 500 followers :))
LOL! Let me help you with some simple research. The motor in the Niche North America model is a 120V DC brush motor operating at about 10,000rpm no load, about 8,500rpm under rated load. The motor in DF64, on the other hand, is an induction AC motor operating at 1,400 rpm pretty much unchanged loaded or unloaded. You might want to rethink what is a high speed motor, and what is a low speed one. There are more subtle differences between the two motors and grinders. On the Niche side the burr set is designed to operate at about 350 rpm and a substantial operating torque, so they had to use a gearbox to transfer the motor's high-speed, low torque output into low speed high-torque drive that the burr set requires. The use of a gearbox, especially at a gear ratio as high as 25-30, means significant transmission loss, i.e. part of the motor output turns into heat to cook up the gearbox. On the DF64 side, because the motor speed equals to the burr's operating speed, no gear box is needed. there is no transmission loss. The rotary burr assembly is directly bolted to the motor shaft, literarily becomes part of the motor. It is a simple, rigid, and secure structure. Most if not all DC motors in coffee grinders are intermittent duty rated. That means they have to take a break of say 2 minute for every 1 minute operating. They are not designed to work non-stop, doing that you risk them over heating, shutdown if self-protection is quipped, or damage. Induction AC motors like the one in DF64 on the other hand, can be left spinning 24x7x365. We saw that DF64 has a auto shutoff timer, just in case someone forgets turning it off, yet not in Niche? I hope the Niche has a built-in overheat protection -- someone forgets to turn it off would not want to see magic smoke coming out of it.
Man, you are just great! That's how people should review things...not like those posh guys that you listen for 40 minutes without getting any actual useful info. I watched that ridiculous gearbox and motor from the expensive Niche, cute outside and not durable at all inside. Real world full inspection and evaluation review, from somebody that actually understands what he is talking about, absolutely stellar insight. Thank you!
Thank you!
I started a DF64 Single Dose Grinder group on Facebook, so anyone interested in discussing their grinder in depth is more than welcome. Someone posted this video a couple of days ago and everyone has been very grateful for your in depth analysis @PortaKeeper. Keep up the great videos!
That’s awesome! Should be a fun video coming soon
How do I find your group? Searched for DF64 and got nothing. Thanks
@@georgepirpiris7309 title is "DF64 Single Dose Grinder" I think.
The robust motor in that DF64 is impressive. I was surprised to see that vinyl wrap. I guess powder coat was not in the budget. Thanks for the informative video.
makes me wonder how the machining finish is under the vinyl.
very nice take. this is the kind of sussing we need to see. instead of talking heads acting posh with little information
Thanks for doing this!
Great video. Thanks for taking the time to do this. I’ve been doing a lot of reading in the home barista forum and some have come to the conclusion that the bottom two screws play a part in burr alignment of the bottom set. Essentially if your taking the bottom of to access the declumper, you could be creating more work and need to realign both burrs. Have you experienced this?
Hmm i think I understand what you are talking about. When you say the bottom you mean the 2 screws in the front? I did a burr swap and alignment today, but did not remove those two screws. I really don’t feel like those two screws do much so I’d just leave in place
@@portakeeper I think the screws that I’ve been reading about are the two at the very bottom, when you turn the device upside. It gives access for the motor and the ability to move the front plate to access the declumper and shoot.
wow. I was not really interested in this (too much hype) but now that I've seen the inside and how it is built, I've changed my mind
Assuming that’s a good thing?
@@portakeeper yes. I just try to avoid the "hype trains" and let things settle for a year or so before making a decision on something. But I will keep an eye on the DF64 now. I'm not so sure about the burr alignment. seems from the design that the burr alignment is dependent on the spring tension and the flatness of the lid. but it looks like there is a rubber pad under the lid which would press on the top burr assembly. I guess it depends on how well machined and how thick the lid is.
@@JessicaSeverin not a fan of hype, part of the reason I am not a Niche fan. Actually didn’t care much about the Turin either to begin with. You are correct about burr alignment. The springs push up though so as the beans wedge the plate does not move up and down. Could check burr alignment as well. Adjustment mechanism identical design to the Mazzer line of grinders.
My 2 cents, it is keeping up with some nice grinders. I really like the Atom 75 personally.
@@portakeeper a friend just bought the Eureka Olympus 75 from that Italian online store (on my suggestion). I really want to get one, but it is so large for my tiny kitchen in my tiny Japanese apartment. I may eventually fold and just get a 75mm Eureka and need to rearrange my furniture :)
Nice video, i only suggest you not to use that way to lock the lower burr to unscrew the bolt, in some case, could lead to dent the chute hole edge.
I do not recommend anyone remove. I have done on many grinders and should not be applying so much pressure as to damage the chute. If you are something is wrong.
Do you need to re-align burrs after taking it apart for de-clump screen installation?
As long as you install the upper burr carrier in the same position, no need to realign burrs
Supposedly the df64 has two of the "plastic clump busters", and removing one helps with retention buildup
Excellent video, and I enjoy your relaxed style and the rich comments while you go. I have one question. I don't see a thrust bearing mechanism present in this grinder. The lower burr, with its mount, seems to sit directly on the motor shaft. That tells me any thrust load during grinding action would be taken by the bearings on the motor. In your opinion, does the motor appear to have been designed to take such thrust loading, could this be a problem long term? Thanks a lot!
Thank you! Honestly not sure. I’d have to go look again. My guess is no, same as Mazzer.
I accidentally figured out how to turn off the power light permanently. There’s a blue wire that goes into the power button and it was loose and came off when I had it open. Turns out that’s the light wire.
Oven the casing to remove the motor hahahah. I do that to install bearings. I didn't see a video on the channel for that. Would have loved to watch that video.
thanks for sharing.
Do you know what material the paddles are made of? The things connected to the lower bur.
Aluminum
Great video, thanks. Do you know what is under the vinyl wrap, is it just extruded aluminium? I have a feeling that would look much, much better than any colour they’re offering.
Just a dull extruded aluminum. It’s nice though!
Thx for the video. Have been expecting your comparison between these two grinders. Good job. Just wondering will there be a comparison between the ground coffee coming out from these two grinders, i.e. how the flat burr and conical burr is going to affect the flavour of the espresso?
That is defiantly coming! I’m going to be running beans through this niche for a few days. Expecting to compare espresso, drip, etc. want to use more quantitive data over “it just tastes better”
@@portakeeper Looking forward to that, as I’ve been seriously considering these two grinders recently. And yes please, more quantitative data would be highly appreciated.
Finally got a DF-64, I made around 6 coffee with it. Then I opened it for cleaning as I wanted to see how to open it to access the burr.
I was delicate everything was ok.
Then when I try to put back the collar on (the ring with the number) it doesn't want to screw in !!
I just can't find the entry point of the threads. This is driving me crazy. I don't want to force anything but the top only screws in for about 25% of a circle, when I removed the collar it rotated ~ 4 complete times.
This is a problem as this is the only way to clean it. It is not supposed to be that hard... now I don't really know what to do, I don't want to put pressure on the threading.
Subbed... I'd love to know if you'd recommend the d64 or not... I have a bunnzilla I'veade my own, but want something smaller.
I totally recommend. It is very easy to use and I like the price point. I am finding the Niche a lot more work to use and so far not enjoying the cup as much.
@@portakeeper thank you! Now my alibaba search starts!
@@bradweekley1539 check out espresso outlet. He might have a few more of these pre orders left at a good price
I feel like the chute with the turin is really far from the dosing cup. A longer chute could have retention issues but perhaps less mess?
Turin seems a bit short but the niche is annoying in terms of clearance imo. Need a happy medium
@@portakeeper I have had the Niche now for about 6 month and I have used several dosing cups size and I find the Niche size works well. I have two others that are slightly shorter and have gone back to the Niche. I actually recently purchased the new Niche dosing cup that eliminated the ledge inside and is more polished than the older version of the dosing cup that came with my Niche originally.
I saw the other breakdown of the Niche you did also. I find that the Niche appears to be better designed than the DF64. However, the DF64 motor size does appear impressive. The Niche is not made for commercial use but maybe the DF64 is? The DF64 appears built like a tank compare to the Niche!
My DF64 should be arriving in about a week for China (Alibaba com) . I am looking forward to trying it out the Flat burrs and comparing it to the results of the Niche.
Thanks again for a great video!
@@EdGodoyPlana hood to know on the dosing cups! Might have to try a few others.
Hard for me to say which is designed better. From an engineering standpoint they both have a few things I’d change but overall appear to do the job. Neither are NSF certified so neither should be used commercially.
Hola Eduardo, que máquina tienes?
Déjanos saber tus comentarios cuando llegue tú DF64.
@@JoseGabelaCuesta I have a La Marzocco Línea mini and a Niche Zero Grinder. The DF64 was supposed to have arrived this week but it looks like it maybe another week before they deliver it. I will let you know!
If i wanted to make it variable speed do you think i can just add a dimmer (rheostat) or maybe a PWM device?
That will ruin the motor. Don’t do that!
Okok thanks!
Why would you want to do that? To achieve what?
@@Emil1978-b3q lower motor speeds makes grounds more uniform. Almost all new Titan grinders (EG-1, Monolith Max, etc) have brushless motors with variable RPM control.
@@armLocalhost yes but those are grinders worthing a lot more compared with the Chinese made Solo...😁😃
Great video. How do you like the coffee from both Niche and DF64? Do you prefer one over the other, or do you not taste any difference?
I will be going into that soon hopefully. Check back this week! Everyone will have personal preference.
How would you change the brushes of that motor or the motor itself...easy to take the thing off the Al case?
It is a brushless motor I believe.
Thanks for this ! It seem to be great value compared to the Niche
The Niche has plastic gears. It would be good to know if the DF64 has plastic gears or not. I wonder what parts availability is for both the Niche and the DF64.
The DF64 has no gears, so no they aren’t plastic because it’s a direct drive AC motor.
@@portakeeper Interesting! That is good to know.
Sorry to ask, but is it really the highest resolution video you could take?
Yeah, plus all the compression 🤷♂️
with a flat burr, u need more rotational speed to generate the Centripetal force to propel the beans out through the burr. No gravity involved. Thus, a bigger motor. Conical burr doesn't require that, gravity is just a tool carry the beans to the burr, and the burr will grip and suck through. And slower speed = less heat.
Personally, I think there are more thoughts that took place on the Niche compare to DF64 the position of the button alone proof that. If they want to have it capable of putting the grinder at the left of a machine, the could have place the button near the PF fork. Just push the dosing cup or PF to activate it.
Anyway, for flat burrs. My vote always goes to Eureka if I am going to buy a production unit. But DF64 has a place in the market due to its price.
Due to its design, the button is in a place for a reason. There is really nowhere else to put it. It’s not hollow except bottom front. Very limited. They might be able to fit on the side if they readjusted a few things. Will have to look again.
I too am a huge eureka fan.
Hi bro. Good grinder . I need the link to buy it . Thanks. Have a good day
www.espressooutlet.net/turin-64sd-elr-single-dose-low-retention-espresso-grinder/
is the motor brushless?
Brushed motor. I show a pretty good shot at one point in the video
@@portakeeper Do you know why they prefer brushed over brushless?
@@icewolfy1 brushed motors are cheaper to produce.
720p resolution minimum please :D
DF64 has an AC motor that is a lot cheaper and inferior to the DC motor that is on the Niche.
The fact that it is bigger does not realy make it better :)))
Again it is absolutely normal for the DF64 to have much faster motor because it has flat burrs
On the other hand the Niche is complemented by he slow motor being a conical grinder
You have no ideea of what you are talking about
I now understand why you have only 500 followers :))
Uuuh no, I am an engineer specializing in motors and transformers. Absolutely no way the Niche motor is superior.
@@portakeeper why is that? just because you said that? :)))
@@plinius33 been around motors my whole life, it’s a cheap drill motor in the niche.
LOL! Let me help you with some simple research. The motor in the Niche North America model is a 120V DC brush motor operating at about 10,000rpm no load, about 8,500rpm under rated load. The motor in DF64, on the other hand, is an induction AC motor operating at 1,400 rpm pretty much unchanged loaded or unloaded. You might want to rethink what is a high speed motor, and what is a low speed one.
There are more subtle differences between the two motors and grinders. On the Niche side the burr set is designed to operate at about 350 rpm and a substantial operating torque, so they had to use a gearbox to transfer the motor's high-speed, low torque output into low speed high-torque drive that the burr set requires. The use of a gearbox, especially at a gear ratio as high as 25-30, means significant transmission loss, i.e. part of the motor output turns into heat to cook up the gearbox.
On the DF64 side, because the motor speed equals to the burr's operating speed, no gear box is needed. there is no transmission loss. The rotary burr assembly is directly bolted to the motor shaft, literarily becomes part of the motor. It is a simple, rigid, and secure structure.
Most if not all DC motors in coffee grinders are intermittent duty rated. That means they have to take a break of say 2 minute for every 1 minute operating. They are not designed to work non-stop, doing that you risk them over heating, shutdown if self-protection is quipped, or damage.
Induction AC motors like the one in DF64 on the other hand, can be left spinning 24x7x365.
We saw that DF64 has a auto shutoff timer, just in case someone forgets turning it off, yet not in Niche? I hope the Niche has a built-in overheat protection -- someone forgets to turn it off would not want to see magic smoke coming out of it.
@@triod371 great info!
I would never buy a Niche just because of how stupid it looks... bought a DF64 Gen 2 from EspressoOutlet and it's a tank... love it